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FAQs about Fish-Only Marine System Stocking 3

Related Articles: Fish-Only Marine Set-up, FOWLR/Fish and Invertebrate Systems, Reef Systems, Coldwater Systems, Small Systems, Large Systems, Plumbing Marine SystemsRefugiumsMarine Biotope, Marine LandscapingFishwatcher's Guides

Related FAQs: FO System Livestocking 1, FO System Livestocking 2, FO System Livestocking 4, & Fish-Only Marine Set-ups, Fish-Only Marine Systems 2, FO System Set-Ups, FO System Lighting, FO System Filtration, FO System Skimmers, FO System Feeding, FO System Maintenance, FO System Disease, FOWLR/Fish and Invertebrate Systems, Reef Systems, Coldwater Systems, Small Systems, Large Systems, Marine System PlumbingBiotopic presentations

125 Gallon FO, stkg.  – 02/19/09
Hello Crew,
<Gordon>
Thank you for all your efforts!!!
<Welcome>
I presently have a Blue Angel and a Pakistani Butterfly in a 125 gallon long. I fear that having the two fish will result in the Angel bullying the butterfly.
<Mmm, might>
I was considering getting a tang or a shoal of Green Chromis to "finish" the tank. I plan on upgrading to a larger tank as I know the Blue Angel will out grow a 125. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Gordon
<I think both would go here... though the Angel may need larger quarters in time... But the Chromis will add much interest to your display, and both fish species will goodly serve as dither additions. Bob Fenner>

Some Help Needed With Stocking my 150-gallon, FO SW  02/13/09
Hello to all,
First off I'd like to say how highly informative this site is to me, and I've learned a lot about marine tank setups. I have some questions, though. I'm setting up my very first saltwater tank, which will be an LPS-dominated reef. The tank is 150 gallons, and measures 48" long, 24" wide, and 30" high. Here is my fish list so far:
5- Green Chromis (Chromis viridis)
2-Ocellaris Clownfish (Amphiprion ocellaris)
1- Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
1-Coral Beauty Angel (Centropyge bispinosus)
1- Sixline Wrasse (Pseudocheilinus hexataenia)
1- Bicolor Blenny (Escenius bicolor)
<All these should be fine... a nice modest, reasonable list of fishes...>
I'm hoping to add a larger fish to this mix, and here are my candidates for consideration:
Yellow Tang (Zebrasoma flavescens)or:
Pacific Blue Tang (Paracanthurus hepatus)or:
Foxface (Siganus vulpinus)
<These should all be fine too. The Foxface have a reputation for getting a bit testy... but it might be ok in a large tank with enough rockwork.>
What do you guys think? I'd definitely want what's best for my fish, and don't want to overcrowd. Which of these three would be best for my setup?
Or if none of these would do, I'll more than welcome suggestions for alternatives. Thank you so much in advance.
Sincerely,
Shannon
Old Bridge, NJ
<Cheers,
Sara M.>

Wrasse compatibility? Untenable FO mix  - 02/08/09
Hi,
<Hello Garrett>
I have a 125 gallon aquarium I'm getting ready to set up with a 40 gallon sump, skimmer and probably a 100 pounds of live rock with 3 inches of live sand.
My question for you is; are a "Thalassoma lunare" Lunar Wrasse and a "Novaculichthys taeniourus" Dragon Wrasse compatible?
<Likely so, yes>
Some of the other
fish I want to add are a "Balistoides conspicillum" Clown Trigger,
<Umm, not this, no>
"Pterois Volitans" Lionfish, "Calloplesiops Altivelis" Marine Betta, "Forcipiger Flavissimus" Yellow Longnose Butterfly" ,"Pomacanthus navarchus" Majestic Angel
<Nor this here either.>
and "Echidna Nebulosa" Snowflake Moray Eel.
Other than the fact that I might be pushing the limits on my tank with so many fish, are there any possible issues you could see here?
<Yep. Please see WWM (FAQs, articles) re the Systems, Compatibility of what you list... This mix won't go here>
Any help with this would be awesome. Thanks.
Garrett
<Keep reading. Bob Fenner>

Overstocking Insanity   12/25/08
This is an ad I just copied off of craigslist... These are just the fish currently "for sale"... Sadly, there is even a Sailfin Tang in the photo... I guess he's keeping that one. I'm half-tempted to make an offer so I can save them and donate to my LFS. He wont even split them up? What the hell? Know anyone with a 1000g tank looking for a package deal? Or do you think North Hollywood Animal Police handles fish cruelty calls? And I thought I was overstocked. As Bob would likely say... "Yikes". Reply to: comm-967601341@craigslist.org [?]Date: 2008-12-22, 4:53PM PSTI have had my saltwater tank set up for more than a year and some of my fish have outgrown my tank and its time for them to move on to a bigger tank I have a 80g tank and here are the fish I have for sale. 1 bamboo shark, 1 Picasso trigger, 1 nigger trigger,1 snowflake eel, 1 Lunare wrasse, 1 star and stripped puffer and 2 volitans lions one black and one red . Ill be taking offer and the highest one take them all must be adopted together. All of my fish are 5-6" and shark is about 11" and the eel is about 16".
<Oh buoy! Makes me wonder just how many gallons of water are actually here. Thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner>

Small Predator Tank, stkg.    12/15/08
I am trying to plan my return to the marine aquarium world and I wanted to see if I am on the right track. A tank full of small aggressive fish sounds to me like a particularly interesting idea as I always liked Damsels, Groupers and Triggers. So I thought I would see your thoughts on the following stocking list, in the order I plan to stock them:
1 Blue Hamlet (Hypoplectrus gemma' max size 5")
1 Dwarf Lionfish(Probably Dendrochirus barberi max size 7")
<Mmm, may swallow some of its tankmates...>
1 Hawkfish(probably Cyprinocirrhites polyactis max size 5")
1 Whitetail Trigger(Sufflamen albicaudatum max size 8.5")
1 Pseudochromis(probably Pseudochromis splendens max size 5")
<A good choice in this family>
1 Large Damselfish(probably Dascyllus trimaculatus max size 5")
<Can be a terror... even biting you!>
First, are there any irreconcilable differences between any of these fish?
<Mmm, none tremendously overt... given room, habitat...>
I realize that with fish this aggressive there may be one fish that refuses any company whatsoever, but is there at least a reasonable probability of  it working?
<Yes... in the 125 I see you are proposing below>
As far as I can tell they are all big enough to avoid being lunch for the Dwarf Lionfish provided I buy them while larger than three inches.
The other issue I would worry about is the Trigger harassing the Lionfish or the Hamlet to death, but from what I read this is one of the triggers that is sometimes kept in reefs, which makes me suspect that interaction will  be fine.
<As Triggerfishes go the genus Sufflamen are rather mellow. Getting food to the Lion here should not be insurmountable>
Then there is the issue of tank size. Does a 125 gallon seem reasonable for this?
<Yes>
When introduced this is about 20 inches of medium sized fish, when adults it is about 35 inches.
<And these fishes won't get this large here, ever>
That leaves 1 inch per 3.5 gallons as adults, to me that sounds reasonable since in my experience I rarely get  everything in the tank at an adult size at the same time. Reaching a psychological limit seems more likely, but enough caves seems like it should handle that problem.
<You exhibit wisdom, patience and intelligence here...>
As for filtration I was thinking a large skimmer, a refugium with a deep sand bed, and if it proves necessary perhaps a wet-dry system.
Thanks
Jesse
<Thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner>

Identification help? And a whole lot more!, Shroom, and stkg.... FO SW, & coral lighting...   12/02/08
Hi crew again--
<Hello, Mich here.>
For the purpose of trying to get as many questions asked/answered with one email, please bear with me!
<No worries.>
I am attaching a picture of what I believe may be a Ricordea mushroom, but I cannot tell.
<Looks like a Ricordea yuma to me.>
This mushroom hitchhiked in on a piece of live rock. It has "split" once. It does much better under actinic lighting and closer to the lighting than the other mushrooms I have in my tank.
<Ricordea are often found in shallow waters.>
I have also invested in the Pocket Expert Guide to Marine Fishes by Scott Michael and the 101 Best Saltwater Fishes by Scott Michael. I also purchased the Pocket Expert Guide to Marine Invertebrates by Dr. Ronald Shimek. My next purchase will be the Conscientious Marine Aquarist.
<All four are excellent books! You are very wise to spend some money on educating yourself. These books are well worth the money and very useful tools. Congrats to you.>
The first three books have helped me immensely on planning the rest of my current 75 gallon tank as well as my preparations to begin setup on a 55 gallon tank and a 30 gallon tank. My 75 gallon will be my reef tank and the 55 gallon will be an aggressive fish only tank. The 30 gallon will be a peaceful fish only tank. Can I ask your suggestions on my list of what I want to put in the 55 gallon? Also what to put in the 30 (below)?
<Sure, though I will defer here to ScottF. as he is more knowledgeable in this subject area.>
I would like to put in the 55 gallon:
<Hi! Scott F. chiming in...>
1 Harlequin Tuskfish (Choerodon fasciatus)
<Yikes! In a 55?>
1 Volitans Lionfish (Pterois volitans)
<Oh my!>
1 Scimitar (Bursa) Triggerfish (Sufflamen bursa)
<Please, no! You're killing me.>
1 eel (I am undecided on a type here) either a Whitemouth Moray (Gymnothorax meleagris) or a Zebra Moray (Gymnomuraena zebra) or possibly a Snowflake Moray (Echidna nebulosa)
<OMG!!!!>
1 Pufferfish (again undecided) either a Blackspotted Puffer (Arothron nigropunctatus) or a Spiny Puffer (Diodon holocanthus)
<Airway...I need an airway!>
#1 is this too big of a bio-load for a 55 gallon? After reading about each of these, I think they should all do fine together, but wanted your suggestions first.
<Um...in a word- YES! I didn't mean to sound too insensitive, but we need to revisit this stocking plan. Not one of these fishes is really even a viable choice for the short run in an aquarium of this size. In addition to reaching sizes that are way too large for this aquarium, these fishes are quite aggressive and incompatible, are messy eaters, and produce copious amounts of metabolic wastes. We need to look at some alternative fishes that will be better suited for this aquarium. Smaller, more peaceful choices would be a better approach. The Harlequin Tusk and the Triggers are simply out of the question for this aquarium. A Lionfish is a possibility, if you are willing to try a different species, such as the "Fu Manchu Lionfish", Dendrochirus biocellatus. This fish is almost as "sexy" as the full-sized guys, yet reaches a more manageable 4 inches or so. It can be a bit shy, but can easily be kept in a 55 gallon aquarium. Like all Lionfish, it is venomous, so do exercise caution when handling this fish. A moray Eel is really not a viable choice for this sized aquarium, either, but you could consider a smaller version, such as the "Golden Dwarf Moray", Gymnothorax melatremus, which is a tiny version of the full-sized species. It reaches a maximum size of about 6-8 inches, and is the diameter of a pen. However, don't let the small size of the fish fool you; these fishes can eat surprisingly large prey items! And, to top it off- they are amazing jumpers. If you do keep one, remember to keep the aquarium tightly covered. They can find the smallest opening and use it to go "carpet surfing"! Oh- and did I mention that they are pretty darned expensive, too! Nonetheless, I think that this would be the only Eel that I would even consider for this sized aquarium. In place of the Harlequin Tusk, consider a smaller wrasse species, such as a Halichoeres species, which generally top off in the 3"-4" range. Better long-term choices for a modest-sized aquarium.>
#2 what order would you add them in? I think the trigger should probably be added last, but not sure.
<I'd add the Lionfish first, and make sure that he's eating before another fish is added. Then I'd go for the GDM, and the wrasse would round out the stocking list.>
Next tank I want to set up is a 30 gallon peaceful. The following are the inhabitants I want to put in:
1 Yellow Shrimp Goby (Cryptocentrus cinctus)
1 Banggai Cardinalfish (Pterapogon kauderni)
<Some controversy with this fish. Please see here:
http://microcosmaqx.typepad.com/ret_talbot/2008/09/banggai-cardi-2.html
http://en.microcosmaquariumexplorer.com/wiki/Portal:Letters >
1 Royal Gramma (Gramma loreto)
1 Cherub Angelfish (Centropyge argi)
1 Coral Beauty Angelfish (Centropyge bispinosa)
<Don't mix Centropyge angelfish in this sized aquarium. Choose one or the other. Personally, I'd pass on an angelfish in this sized system. However, if you must have one, the C. argi is the better choice. It can be a bit aggressive, so be careful and observe the system often.>
2 Yellow Clown Gobies (Gobiodon okinawae)
For this group, I would add the Cherub last.
<Absolutely.>
Too big of a bio-load?
<Oh yes, by far. You need to pare down the stocking list quite a bit. I'd consider keeping the Goby, Royal Gramma, and the C. argi. That would be it! Remember, a 30 gallon aquarium holds less than 30 gallons when you take into account the volume consumed by rock and sand. Smaller water volumes are a great challenge to maintain.>
What order to add?
<Goby, Gramma, Angelfish!>
The fish only tanks will get live sand and some live rock, but that is it.
<OK.>
I will be putting a protein skimmer on the 55, but will it be necessary on the 30 gallon?
<I would say yes. In my opinion, a protein skimmer is not an optional piece of equipment in a marine system. I simply would not run a marine system without one. This is my opinion, of course, but I would be remiss if I did not attempt to convince you to utilize protein skimming in your system, regardless of size.>
Could I do more frequent water changes in 30 instead of skimming?
<You could, but I still feel a skimmer is mandatory. There are skimmers available for almost any size of aquarium and budget, so do a little research and you'll find one that works for your system.>
Okay now a quick question on my 75 gallon if I may. You guys have helped me out with other problems with that tank. Needless to say, I did what I assume many beginning aquarists do--I ran out and bought and bought and bought and did not research first. I have learned the hard way that is not the way to do it!
<A terrible lesson, but at least you learned. And the fact that you are sharing your experience with others proves that you have progressed!>
With the money wasted in now dead livestock, I could have purchased some really awesome high dollar fish!
<Like a Golden Dwarf Moray!>
Live and learn I guess! Okay on to the question....
I am planning on purchasing a metal halide/T-5 combo light for my 75 gallon. The following is what I am looking at:
2 X 250 Watt Metal Halide � 15k bulbs included
4 X 54 watt T5 HO Lights included- 4 actinic 03 bulbs
8 lunar moonlights included on fixture � 8 blue 1 watt LED's
Unit has 3 Chords and 3 switches
Is this sufficient lighting for all corals, etc?
<It can be sufficient for a great many corals, and may actually be overkill for some species! It really boils down to what kinds of corals you intend to keep. Personally, I like the flexibility of the Halide/T5 combo, but you could actually get by with exclusively lighting the system with T5 bulbs. They are a remarkably powerful lighting source for a variety of corals. You also may not need 250 watt halides over this sized system. You could do pretty well with two 150 watt DE halides over this sized system, and realize the same flexibility and enjoy energy savings as well!>
The other 2 tanks will have actinic lighting--no metal halides or anything "fancy".
Any help would sure be appreciated! Thank you so much for being there for people!
<You are very welcome! Scott F. signing out!>
Angela

New 55 Gallon FO Saltwater Tank, stkg.  11/18/08
Hey Crew,
My fiancé and myself are new to the aquarium world and have been doing some research and planning before purchase. We have 2" of sand seeded with live sand that was used to cycle the tank. It's about 2.5 ft high, 4 ft wide and maybe a 1 ft deep. We want to setup the tank to center around a couple of butterflyfish that we'll acclimate at the same time, but will start with some smaller, hardier fish first.
<Uh... don't get any fish you don't want "forever." So called "starter fish" are not such a good idea when it comes to marine tanks, unless these are the fish you plan to keep indefinitely.>
Was thinking of 2 to 4 blue-green chromis, 2 hermit crabs, and a couple of snails for starters.
<Hermits and snails are good for fish only tanks. You can start with 2 chromis, but again, only if there are fish you really do want.>
My main question is what type of butterfly fish should I consider? I'd like the Raccoon, but I'm afraid my tank is a tad on the small side.
<Your fear is warranted... the tank is probably too small for a Raccoon butterfly, or most any butterfly really. These fish are "roamers" and need as much room as you can give them. But you might be ok with one of the smaller species, maybe. Also, some don't do well with others of their own kind (do better solitary). To start, please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BFsBestWrst.htm
and follow the links to the different groups.>
Would you have a good recommendation for butterflyfish that would work well in a tank this size?
<I'm not going to say you couldn't keep any kind of butterfly in this tank, but I wouldn't recommend it for anyone who hasn't been keeping marine fish for a long time. I can understand their appeal and wanting to have a pair of fish. But If what you really want a "romantic" kind of display with a happy pairing of fish... there are better options... like clown fish.
Please take your time, do your research. I'm sure you and your fiancé will find the perfect fish for you and your system. :-) >
Jason Tindell
<Best,
Sara M.>

Re: New 55 Gallon FO Saltwater Tank 11/19/08
Yeah, cause Finding Nemo was a really romantic movie...
<Mmm, well, while a great show... not the most accurate. Clown fish are actually very easy to pair because if you get two when they are small/young, one (the bigger one) will become female while the other male.>
Jason Tindell
<Best,
Sara M.>

Re: New 55 Gallon FO Saltwater Tank 11/19/08
Sara, I sincerely apologize for that previous email being sent to your website. It was suppose to be sent to my fiancé and I was merely expressing my personal frustration.
<Oops, no worries. I do apologize if I caused you to be frustrated. But there's a reason most people don't keep marine aquariums for long (unfortunately). I/we don't mean to turn people off to the hobby, but we do want to let them know what they're getting into.>
I do appreciate your advice and time in answering my newbie questions. The blue-green chromis is a starter fish as in we are new to the marine aquarium world and it's a cheap, hearty fish that have a good chance to survive our mistakes and will likely get along well with any future choices so they would be there for the long haul.
<Ah, good. I didn't mean to say you shouldn't try your hand with "starter fish" if it's a fish you like and plan to keep. I was referring more to when people use fish like damsels for such and then live to regret it or worse, take them out later and dispose of them. But yes, Chromis are good "starter" fish... and as long as you plan to keep them, they are a fine choice.>
However, the B/Fs are what we really would like to have, and it may just take us a little longer and graduating to a larger tank before we introduce
<Good idea.>
them into our system as I certainly wouldn't want to cram them into a space too small for their needs.
<Bless you>
Jason Tindell
<Good luck... it's an adventure for sure!
Best,
Sara M.>

120 stocking 11/15/08
Crew,
<Joe>
I have a question about stocking for my 120. I currently have a porcupine puffer, purple tang, Huma, and clown trigger.
I was thinking about adding a coral hind to the tank but don't know if I really have the room. Do you think I have room for any more fish, much less that large of a fish?
<I do not. You have too much for this tank already with the large, aggressive Clown.>
Thanks,
Joe
<Welcome, Scott V.>

Stocking question... SW, gen... reading  8/18/08
Howdy Crew
<Hi there>
I am a junior high school science teacher and am in the process of setting up a 180 gallon saltwater tank in my classroom. It's been running 3 months and I'm in the process of filling it with livestock. I have about 50 lbs of live rock and another 80 of base rock that looks like its starting to be seeded. Oh, and I have a 3 inch bed of live sand. The water quality seems good with nitrates being the only substance that is creeping up a little--I still have bio-balls in the sump since I don't know if my live rock is cooking enough to remove them yet.
<Mmm, very likely is>
Anyway, I cycled the tank with 2 big Green Chromis. About 3 weeks ago, I added 2 young Percula Clowns (each with a cool double saddle misbar on the back), a lawnmower blenny, and 3 turbo snails . I also have a couple As far as I can tell, the only problem I'm having so far is a hair algae outbreak which let me to the snails and the blenny. I have a few aiptasia but injecting them with lemon juice has worked great so far. My goal for the tank is to create a system with a lot of diversity (with lots to explain to the kids) and I'd like to eventually have a Flame Angel as the centerpiece. Yesterday, I went to my LFS and didn't see any of the fish I really wanted other than a flame angel. ) I'm rather weary of wrasses and the two fish I'm considering from the store are a Sixline wrasse and a yellow wrasse. Here are my questions:
1) Would adding a group of small green chromis to the big 2 be a death sentence for the new ones?
<Mmm, not too likely... in a system of this size, shape... they'll probably stay in separate groups>
2) What's your opinion on the wrasse duo, especially the yellow?
<S/b fine as well. The Halichoeres chrysus is a fave... you'll see it out and about... the Pseudocheilinus will hide most all the time>
I had wanted to add a Mandarin in a year or so, but I'm guessing the wrasses are going to knock the copepod population down too low for that to work. Also, I hear (read) they eat shrimp.
<Mmm, only very small...>
3) In building a cleanup crew, will different types of crabs battle or will they claim a territory and be happy?
<... I'd do a bit of reading re... skip on decapods>
Also are there any shrimp that will work with the addition of the yellow wrasse?
<Sure... Hippolytids esp.>
I really need something that will clean up my sand.
<Mmm, other animals for this>
4) Since I have the 2 clownfish are other clowns of the same (or different) species now off limits?
<In a six foot long system, another pair of Amphiprion should be fine>
5) What are your thoughts on the following as future fish: Yellow Tang, Pajama cardinal(s), Schooling Bannerfish (can I do just 1?),
<Yes>
Royal Gramma, Clown goby, and the Flame angel.
6) Do you have any other opinions on what would be "cool" for me to put in the tank for a 7th grader to see? (I am new to all of this.)
<Mmm, I'd ask them to research.>
Thanks very much for your time and thanks for the great website.
<Welcome! Bob Fenner>

Stocking List; what size tank?  10/11/08
Good day Crew of WWM,
<Eric>
I have a quick question. Here's the list of fish I'm planning to buy, and I'm wondering, what is the smallest tank you would recommend?
<Mmm... okay>
1. Yellow Tailed Blue Damsels/Green Chromis (3)
2. Flame Angel
3. Starry Blenny
4. Canthigaster Solandri
<Mmm, a stock shape 55 or sixty minimum... bigger... better>
I'll have an over-filtered tank with plenty of live rock, aeration, and an excellent skimmer, of course. Ideally, I would like to put them in a 46 gallon bowfront tank,
<Mmm, not a good shape for the volume... too little space for all to get away from each other, you>
if at all possible. Do you think this is too small?
<Yes>
Thanks as always!
Eric
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Dwarf Lionfish and Harlequin Tusk... incomp.   10/1/08
Hello,
<Hi>
I have a Dwarf Lionfish that is about 4" long living nicely with a Carpet Eel Blenny
<(Congrogadus subducens)>
(he was added a couple of weeks ago). I introduced a new Dwarf Lion to my tank three days ago and woke up this morning to find it dead. It had been harassed by the other Dwarf, but I was (stupidly?) hoping that they could sort out their differences.
<Likely got poked>
This same Dwarf harassed a Clown Trigger until it had to be removed to another tank.
<I would too. NOT compatible>
Oh, I have a 55 gallon tank with canister filter (Fluval 305) and CPR BakPak skimmer along with a bunch of live rock
(sorry, don't know how many pounds). So, I really want to introduce another fish to live with these two,
<You need to study...>
at the same time add some color to the tank, but am feeling a little gun-shy regarding the aggression my lion has been showing towards fish. I really want a Harlequin Tusk,
<This tank... is too small>
but I'm happy to hear suggestions.
<Oh, good>
I just don't want unhappy fish and would like to keep my Dwarf Lion. Can you guys help me??
Thank you!
<Can help you help yourself. Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/dwflioncompfaqs.htm
and the linked files above, and peruse WWM until you're better aware of your possibilities. Bob Fenner>

re: trigger and tank size... ridiculous FO lvstk. mix, joke?   10/1/08
I have a 120 gallon tank.
In it i have a Picasso trigger and a Niger trigger. is this going to be enough room for them when they have grown to full size or should i be looking for a bigger tank now?
<Likely would/will be fine>
i also have a Volitans lion fish, dog face puffer, a fox-face rabbit fish, and 2 eels. thanks in advance.
<... is this a joke? I do hope not. See WWM re the Systems, Compatibility of what species you have. This mix will NOT work. Bob Fenner>

Fish Tank Question, Marine Stocking 9/22/08
Hey WWM Crew,
<Hello>
I have a question regarding the following:
I have a 46 gallon bow front aquarium that I am setting up for a saltwater tank.
<I have had one of these for years.>
I'm all good with that but a question has come across my mind for fish for in this aquarium. When placing fish into a 46 gallon bowfront is these fish that I would like to have fine together in this size tank. I would like to have, a pair of True Percula Clownfish,
<Ok>
a Raccoon Butterfly,
<Gets too big.>
a Coral Beauty Angelfish,
<Needs a bit larger tank.>
and a Koran Angelfish.
<Also too big.>
I believe that I have given enough area for the fish to be able to separate and enough spots to hide out, so I believe this number will be an okay amount.
<I would disagree here, for comparison in mine I have a pair of clowns and a Gramma, plus a fairly large serpent star and I consider it fairly well stocked. The tank is smaller than you think, especially when rock, sand, and equipment is added in.>
But if you don't think so please let me know.
<See above.>
And my second question that might already be answered in the first one is Will both a Koran angelfish and a Coral Beauty angelfish be able to go together, I know sometimes that 2 angels cant go together, but if I add them at same/similar times (please let me know if that is even necessary if fish are fine together) but will those to angels be fine together?
<Not in this sized aquarium.>
Thank you so much for your help
Ryan
<Welcome>
<Chris>

Stocking list compatibility.. FO... 155 gal.s   8/30/08
Hello Crew!
<Jeremy>
After a very sudden and devastating bout with Amyloodinium that wiped out an entire tank in less than 24 hours and a very tough lesson learned about QT'ing for a FULL 4 weeks, and nothing less, I'm in the position of coming up with a new stocking list once my 6 week fallow period has passed. Having learned what I have over the last year, I'm going to change up my list of possible inhabitants a bit and wondered if someone would mind taking a brief look at it and tell me if there are any absolute compatibility no-no's. I have a year old 120gal mixed reef set-up with a 6" DSB, 100lbs. LR, 35gal sump with a built in refugium growing Chaeto/Copepods fed by dual MegaFlows and roughly 3400gph total tank flow rate. Some of the possibilities I'm considering include:
Holocentrus Adscensionis (Squirrelfish)
*or, not both*
Neoniphon marianus (Longjaw Squirrelfish)
<Both good choices in Holocentrids...>
Pterois Volitans (Volitans Lionfish)
<Mmm, will get to be about half the allowable biomass in this volume>
Coris Gaimard (Gaimard Wrasse)
Pterapogan kauderni (Banggai Cardinal)
<Eaten by the Lion, maybe the Squirrel>
Neocirrhites Armatus (Scarlet/Flame Hawkfish)
<Ditto>
Siganus Magnificus (Magnificent Rabbitfish)
Zebrasoma Flavescens (Yellow Tang)
Istiblennius Chrysospilos (Red/Orange Spotted Blenny)
Synchiropus Picturatus (Psychedelic Mandarin) *POSSIBLY, undecided if I want to risk it*
<Mmm, also eaten...>
Chromis Viridis (Blue-Green Chromis)
<Ditto>
Linckia Laevigata (Linckia Starfish)
<See WWM, not good species for aquarium care>
Premnas Biaculeatus (Maroon Clownfish) *To be added last*
Congrogadus Subduscens (Green Wolf Eel) *Unclear as to whether this is even a survivable/viable species to try*
<Is actually pretty tough>
Apologies for dual naming, I'm trying to get out of the habit of using common names but still need reminders. Obviously I'm not thinking of stocking all of these fish, but a handful out of the list. After searching and searching through the FAQ's, my head is spinning and I hoped that I might be able to take a little more direct approach by gleaning from one of you guys directly. Any input, suggestions, or substitutions would be greatly appreciated. BTW thank you Bob for your help with my pond a few weeks ago. After a few back to back water changes, my Koi with the mysterious black spots/growths cleared up and all inhabitants are apparently happy again!
<Ah, good>
Whatever was causing it seemed to be environmental after all.
Humbly,
Jeremy
<Well... you have pretty much "2" systems to decide between... the one with the Squirrel and Lion (plus a few other of the larger choices listed) OR the one with the smaller fishes excluding them... Bob Fenner>

Re: Stocking list compatibility..  8/31/08
Thank you for the reply Bob. I kind of thought the Volitans might get to be a little large, but what about one of the smaller species like Dendrochirus biocellatus if some of the smaller selections were of mature size?
<Mmm, no, I wouldn't>
The only reason I ask is because I know my wife will want some of the smaller *pretty* fish, and I've wanted to try some type of Scorpionfish for a long time, so I'm trying to find a happy medium somewhere.
<Two tanks>
I can do without the squirrelfish if necessary as I didn't have my heart truly set on one to begin with. I'm assuming that the cardinals and the mandarin (my wife will be heartbroken) would still be no-no's, but what about the chromis and Hawkfish?
<... not with the Lion... Please learn to/use the indices, search tool on WWM. This information and much that you will find of use, interest is archived along side of it. Bob Fenner>

Some questions... leaping before...   08/28/08
Hi, I was hoping you'd be able to shed some light on some queries I have.
<We'll see>
1. Can you help identify this fish in the attachment? It's a puffer for sure but which kind, I can't seem to determine.
<Mmm... yes... read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/tetraodontpuffers.htm... A. hispidus>
2. It's about 4 days old in my tank so it's a new addition. Since I don't know what kinda fish it is,
<? You bought something live, took it into your care, w/o even knowing...?>
not too sure about its feeding habits. What does it eat and what frequency should I feed it.
<... idiocy>
3. I have a 270 gallon tank. What should be the optimum flow per hour in order to facilitate the best filtration.
<Ditto>
4. Again, consider the size of my tank, I have a medium sized Volitans lionfish, a small sucker remora,
<... incompatible...>
a small puffer, a small/medium spotted grouper, a small 6 line Soapfish,
<toxic...>
and the puffer I cannot identify. So a total of 6. How many more can I add and what kinda fishes would go well with the existing in this community?
5. Am thinking of adding a trigger. Which is the most docile and least aggressive one?
Thanks for your help again.
B
<... Please... learn to use WWM, read some basic books... BEFORE removing life to your inexperienced care. Bob Fenner, disgusted>

Re: Some questions  08/28/08
Bob,
appreciate your comments and perhaps, I should deep dive into why I am in this situation. I didn't want to bore you with a life history.
<Please fill me in with what is pertinent>
Fact is, this tank, I inherited from friends who left the country 2 days ago. Prior to them leaving, they made an addition to the tank that they thought I'd like it in case you were wondering why there was a new fish. I didn't buy it.
<I see>
Does this explain why I have no clue about saltwater tanks?
<Oh yes>
And in case you were going to say my friends should have sold them back to the fish shops, I think you'd appreciate that I am in China. We did try asking them if they'd take the fishes back but China has different dynamics. They'd do anything to sell you a fish but will never let you sell it back, unlike the US. Sad fact but true.
<Thank you for this>
The reason I am asking about adding additional fishes is just in case I get the hang of this saltwater thingy, I may start to get good at it and eventually turn it into a hobby. For now, I am just trying to keep these little fishes alive rather than to leave my friends with no options except to trash the entire tank.
<Mmm... I would definitely "punt" here... Add no more, read/study what you can till you have a semblance of what can exist well-enough together, return, sell, give away the rest... Put together a stocking plan some time in future>
I scurried the web to find a reliable source of help and info and chanced upon your site. I was hoping you could offer help in keeping these fishes alive.
<What in particular do you seek?>
You can remain disgusted and call me an idiot
<Mmm, did not... I know you naught. I stated that the acts were idiocy... You appear to be a very competent writer of English... otherwise, you may look this word up>
if you wish and I will try and find help elsewhere. I came to you because I could not turn to the local fish people coz i doubt they'd really care. It's only a business to them and they won't be offering any constructive advice since they only vested interest is making money out of me. All I was hoping for from you was a little compassion just like the compassion I gave to the inherited tank and fishes.
<... I understand... and can and will gladly help you... but, where to start? There is MUCH to know, and you have, as the amended title (by me) stated "leapt..." into things, "w/o looking"... as you state here from all this being gifted to you. Do you have service companies that take care of fish tanks for folks there, in your region? I strongly suggest you avail yourself of their services NOW, until you feel more confident re taking all this on yourself. Saltwater aquarium keeping is not overly difficult, nor mysterious, but it takes a bit of knowledge... and gaining this will take a few months. We have tens of thousands of folks (unique ISPs) per day that use our resource... Do please become facile at using the search tool, indices... Most all of your immediate concerns are addressed, archived (I am the common progenitor of this site). Bob Fenner>

Fish Stocking Question for 90g Marine Tank – 08/24/08
Hello WWM Crew,
<<Greetings Clay>>
I have a question regarding the stocking of my system.
<<Okay>>
Here is a brief description of my tank. I have a 90 gallon display tank with a 40 gallon sump and refugium. The tank contains 130 pounds of live rock. My skimmer is a SWC Xtreme NW-160. Other filtration includes active GAC and PhosBan. The system has been up and running for just over 11 months. I currently have a Royal Gramma, Ocellaris Clown, Orchid Dottyback, and a Sailfin Tang.
<<Mmm…though I’m sure it doesn’t seem like it, the 90 is too small for the Sailfin. If this fish were to reach its maximum “wild” size it would hardly be able to turn around in this tank. And though it likely won’t get that large in captivity, just growing up in this “too small” system will probably have deleterious effect on its long-term health, along with spawning abhorrent/aggressive behavior as it matures>>
The tank also contains a mix of various soft corals, Zoanthids, and mushrooms. I am considering adding 4 more fish and would like to hear your thoughts.
<<Sure>>
I would very much like to add a small angel such as a Flame or Coral Beauty.
<<Choose the Flame for sure… The Coral Beauty is an exquisite fish, and if a healthy and undamaged one can be obtained and acclimated (these can prove difficult) it can be quite hardy. But the Flame Angel has proven to be an exceptional aquarium specimen among Centropyge species, both hardy and easy to care for…and a real beauty itself to boot>>
I would also like to get 3 Yellow-tail or Azure Damselfish. Does adding these fish seem to be a wise decision?
<<This number of this size fishes is fine, though the Damsels are a bit of a gamble re getting along…perhaps a trio of Cardinal fishes…The Pajama or Longspine maybe>>
If so, what order should these be added in?
<<Between the Angel and the Damsels, I don’t think it matters…if you go with Cardinals then place these before the Angel…though I think the established Dottyback is the real concern re any of these new additions>>
Thanks for any suggestions or comments you can provide.
Clay
<<Quite welcome, EricR>>

Stocking a 90 Gallon Tank…Three Tangs Too Much? (Yes!) – 08/07/08
Hi Bob and Crew,
<<Hello Melissa…Eric here>>
I have a question about stocking a 90 gallon tank with a 20 gallon sump/refugium.
<<Okay>>
I have 150 lbs. of live rock and the tank has been set up for 9 months.
<<Ah, a “young” system then>>
It will soon be a reef after I increase lighting.
<<I see…then do keep this in mind re your stocking plan as ALL life will have an impact/be a burden to the system>>
Recently I had an outbreak of ich. They are currently in the treatment tank and unfortunately I'm revising my stocking list because I lost some of the fish. I'm wondering if I'm overstocking the tank, although the LFS owner who usually gives good advice says I'm not.
<<Is often a subjective observation (with many variables)...but if trouble keeps arising re then logic/reason must dictate>>
I'm starting to question this because twice in the past 9 months I've gotten ich.
<<While this may well be a stocking/overstocking issue, it may also be a problem with your husbandry (poor water quality, diet, etc.) or even the source of the livestock (poor collection/holding practices). All of which will cause stress and the associated depression of the fish’s immune system>>
Both times it happened when I was stocking close to the last fish. The first time I wasn't dipping or quarantining properly but learned my lesson and the second time around dipped and quarantined all new fish unless you stated here that it was best to just dip and place the particular fish.
<<Very good>>
This time when I was placing the last few fish my two tangs started to fight (they have never had any trouble for the past 7 months), one got sick and it started to spread.
<<Mmm…this sudden fighting and subsequent illness may very well be put to a “too full” environment>>
Since I have switched over to saltwater two years ago I have only lost one fish after initial quarantine,
<<Commendable>>
except these times when I have reached capacity and had an ich outbreak. Other than this I've never had a disease, fish fighting, not eating, etc.
<<Sounds as if perhaps you have been doing some good reading/researching beforehand>>
Everyone has seemed happy and active and this has me wondering if this is more than a coincidence.
<<Coincidence? No… It is a certainty that “something” you are doing or about your system is leading up to these outbreaks. The key is to use the clues available to discover and break the cycle of events that result in the complaint>>
I'm sure it is somewhat stressful whenever a new fish is introduced
<<Too all, most assuredly (remember being/receiving the new kid in school?)… Not to mention being plucked out of their environment and tossed around by “giants”>>
but they have seemed to adjust fine until I'm close to full.
<<A clue then>>
Also, I haven't had any trouble keeping my levels at 0 with nitrates around 10-15
<<Another clue…>>
with my weekly water changes and nothing else seemed to have changed before the outbreaks like temperature variations, pH change etc. This is the current stocking list; all fish except the powder brown were placed at the time of illness:
Powder Brown Tang (A. japonicus)
Percula Clown
Yellow Tang
Kole Tang
Green Clown Goby
Yellow Clown Goby
Yellow-headed Jawfish
Firefish
Scooter Blenny
Diamond Goby
Bicolor Blenny
Sixline Wrasse
5 Chromis
3 Lyretail Anthias (1 male, 2 female)
Am I overstocking and if so are there specific issues?
<<It is my opinion you “are” overstocked. Aside from just the mass of the fish flesh packed in this tank, you have some species that really require larger quarters. This tank is “marginal” for any tang species in my opinion, and certainly too small to house three. Aside from health issues, these fish can suffer social/behavioral problems from “growing up” in a too small environment…as may be evidenced by the sudden fighting as the tank becomes more crowded>>
I really like tangs but if 3 is too many I can cut down there.
<<A “single” specimen is best here…and any one of these three smallish species you have chosen would be fine in my opinion>>
Also, I would prefer to just have a pair of anthias, but have been told 3 is best.
<<This is the popular consensus… But you can always give it a try…observing behavior of the remaining pair for a time and reintroducing the second female if things get too rough>>
Like I said, I have lost some fish at this point and want to take this opportunity to revise the stocking list so I can prevent this in the future. I would like a tank that is full and active but with happy, healthy fish that live long lives.
<<A tank full of fishes is a common desire…but this “want” must be balanced with the particular environment. This involves not only choosing species that are compatible, but also choosing species that are “suitable” to the limitations of the environment. While it could be other factors as well, the fighting among the tangs is suggestive of crowding (which may even be exacerbated by too much rock in the display limiting “swimming” space). The moderately high Nitrate level, while deemed within acceptable limits for a FOWLR system (will need to be kept at <5ppm when you go “Reef”), is also suggestive of a crowded/overburdened system. While the latter might be dealt with by adding a DSB, ancillary chemical filtration, and/or increasing the size of the refugium…the former can only be addressed with a larger system, or a rethinking of your stocking plan>>
Thanks,
Melissa
<<I hope this proves helpful. EricR>>

Re: Stocking a 90 Gallon Tank…Three Tangs Too Much? (Yes!) – 08/07/08
Hi Eric,
<<Hey Melissa!>>
Thanks for your help.
<<A pleasure>>
I have been wondering myself if 150 lbs of rock is too much.
<<Mmm, yes…depends on the particulars of the rock…but does sound in excess to me. Perhaps you can remote some of this>>
Since the tank is empty right now I took the chance to rearrange to allow more swimming room and better circulation but it still looks full!
<<Ah well, can indeed be a difficult balance…to provide enough hiding places, adequate biological filtration, etc.>>
I can move some of the rock into the refugium/sump area, how many pounds would you suggest keeping in the display?
<<Hard to say, not knowing how dense/heavy this rock is. But try building a pair of “bommies” from the rock, surrounded on all sides by substrate, and see what you have. Build the bommies as high as you can yet not so high as to be unstable (often easier said…). Try to incorporate plenty of nooks and crannies for hiding. I think you will find this to be more interesting than the ubiquitous “rock wall” and the design typically allows more freedom of movement to the fishes…as well as enhanced water flow/circulation>>
I will start working on cutting down the stocking list.
<<For the best I feel. Most of the smaller fishes you listed will probably be fine, though I think you may eventually have an issue with the Sixline Wrasse and the Firefish as the former can be a real terror in confined spaces, and the latter is very easily harassed to the point of starvation>>
I know there is no set in stone formula for how many fish/inches because of all of the variables but do you have some type of guideline for me to figure out when I've cut enough?
<<Other than reading/researching/experience…I’m afraid not. But do feel free to bounce your ideas/selections off me if you wish. Before purchase of course [grin]>>
For future reference (I just upgraded but already have visions of a bigger system) what size tank would you recommend for 2 or 3 tangs?
<<Considering “standard” available sizes…at least 6-feet in length and 125g in volume for a pair…bigger for a trio. And even then, species selection is still key (i.e. – don’t try to house a Naso and a Sailfin together in a 125g tank). This may sound extreme, but viewing these animals firsthand in their natural environment gives one a new perspective and sense of appreciation>>
You said for my system a single tang would be best.
<<This is my opinion, yes>>
Is this because a 90 gallon is just too small for 2 tangs period or because of the large amount of other fish present?
<<The former…the latter merely heightens the issue>>
I'm just trying to clarify so I don't make these mistakes again in the future
<<No worries my friend…understood>>
and despite all of the research I've done here on stocking it seems like such a gray area.
<<To a large degree this is so…it is up to you to gather the information (preferably from several sources) and then use your own good judgment to make a decision>>
Thanks again,
Melissa
<<Always welcome. Eric Russell>>

R2: Stocking a 90 Gallon Tank…Three Tangs Too Much? (Yes!) – 08/07/08
I'll try your suggestions and send a new stocking list when I get one done.
<<Excellent>>
I'm on the same page with you about the sixline. He was the only fish I didn't research before purchase and was terrible to new fish (and sometimes existing)!
<<Indeed… I have even seen this behavior demonstrated in tanks of hundreds of gallons in volume>>
Unfortunately, I lost him with the ich and he won't be replaced.
<<Perhaps a suitably sized Halichoeres species (e.g. – H. chrysus or H. iridis)>>
Thanks,
Melissa
<<Be chatting! EricR>>

R3: Stocking a 90 Gallon Tank…Three Tangs Too Much? (Yes!), gather, place FO f'  – 08/07/08 8/9/08
Hi again Eric,
<<Hello Melissa>>
I have revised the stocking list for my 90 gallon and wanted to get some feedback.
<<Happy to do so>>
If this is still too many I could substitute the 3 Lyretail Anthias for a Fairy Wrasse.
<<Might be a good idea, considering the rather large size of these Anthiines>>
Also, I was considering a Dragon Goby instead of the Diamond Goby and was wondering if they generally cause a problem in a reef tank by dropping sand on the coral.
<<I think either one will cause you grief… The Dragon Goby won’t “crop-dust” your corals like the Diamond Goby will, but as it matures/gets large (about 6” and very robust) it will vigorously excavate and at times create quite the “dust cloud” as well as disturb your DSB’s function (if you have one). Either one can also dislodge/topple live rock if not carefully anchored/settled on the bottom of the tank. Both are interesting and do a great job of stirring/keeping the substrate looking good, but I’ve come to think these fishes are more trouble than they’re worth>>
I'm looking into a 180 gallon to accommodate more tangs!
<<Yay!>>
Percula Clown
Yellow Tang
Diamond Goby or Dragon Goby
<<If you must…I would go with the slightly smaller Diamond Goby for your system>>
Yellow-headed Jawfish
<<Requires some special considerations (best kept in a species-specific system). Do have a read here and among the associated links: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/jawfishe.htm >>
Bicolor Blenny
Scooter Blenny
5-Blue Reef Chromis
Fire Fish
Yellow Clown Goby
Green Clown Goby
3-Lyretail Anthias (2 female, 1 male)
<<These are a superb aquarium species, but will do better in more space than your current 90g system>>
Thanks,
Melissa
<<Happy to share. Eric Russell>>

Re: Fish Selection, FO    8/9/08
Dear WWM,
Ok I have changed my fish selection for my 90 gallon:
1) 3-5 Bartlett's Anthias
2) Chalk Basslet
3) Rainford's Goby
4) Divided Leopard Wrasse
<Had to look this up: Macropharyngodon bipartitus bipartitus
Not an easy fish to find in good condition, or keep in captivity>
5) Firefish
<Social species... need to be kept in a group, pairs, depending on which...>
Do you think this is a good selection, the only one I am worried about is the Divided Leopard Wrasse, but I have read they are very peaceful?
<Are... just not very hardy, adaptable to aquarium settings. But can be kept>
With the Anthias do you think I should do a combination of females and a male, or should I just do females?
<I'd have a male for sure... or one of the group will turn into such...>
Also, what order to you think I should add them into my tank, and how far apart should each addition be?
Alex
<The Labrid and Microdesmids last... a few weeks twixt the others, these last a few months after. Bob Fenner>

Eel, Trigger, Large Tang - Tank Size... FO stkg. f'   8/7/08
I have perused several posts in the FAQ's and I think my specific question has not been answered, but I think I may have an idea what the answer is:
<Ok>
I want to set up a tank for an eel (Zebra moray, probably), a trigger (Rhinecanthus rectangulus, probably), and one other fish, possibly a butterfly or a suitable tang (Convict?).
<Acanthurus triostegus? The Manini? Am out in HI currently... this is a social species... not really happy, healthy kept individually. Maybe a Kole instead... see WWM re>
My main question concerns the size of the tank. I have a 150 gallon that is four feet long, two feet wide, and 31 inches deep, which seems suitable in terms of volume, and offers some options for free swimming since I plan to arrange it so there is a continuous "track" around the outside so a fish could rapidly circle the tank continuously without running into any obstructions. In this way it is probably not typical of the tanks that your posts usually assume.
<Agreed, and much better>
You've told many people that no tank less than six feet long is acceptable for a trigger,
<Mmm, not I... but def. the bigger the better>
and usually then you reference the size, no smaller than 90 gals or so. To be certain about it, would you say that a four-foot long tank offering a nearly 10 foot perimeter for free swimming would be suitable, or would something like a six-foot 135 gallon be preferable just because of the linear distance along one side, even though it would not be practical to have a "raceway" around the whole tank and it would not be as deep?
<Good point, and I think you should be fine here with the species in question>
As for the other questions: Would a convict tang be likely to hold his/her own with a rectangulus (given that I know the individuals are unpredictable and things could always go south as the trigger grows)?
Is there another tang that would do better (preferably one that is native to Hawaii as I'm sort of striving for a biotope if I can do it)
<Yes... the Ctenochaetus mentioned... otherwise... not hard to search your choices>
or would a saddleback or other type of butterfly be more likely?
<Mmm, not an ephippium... see WWM re better/best BF's... there's an article or two>
Will the trigger tend to control algae growth
<? No>
as well as a tang would, or do they just snack on algae? I was thinking that I needed someone to help with algae control since I won't likely be able to keep a significant population of cleaners.
Thanks,
Brad Churchill
<Again, the Bristlemouth Tangs... Bob Fenner>

FO lvstkg., GIGO    8/6/08
Hi,
I have a Lunar wrasse, Niger trigger, and a Foxface. I have had the wrasse and trigger for over 2 years, the Foxface I
have had for a year. I want to get more fish. Could you suggest what would be compatible. I know whatever I buy
should be same size or bigger than what I already have. I have a 97 gallon corner unit, with a lot of live rocks, I
used to have snails, crabs, and shrimp. The wrasse used to pluck the snails off the glass till they disappeared.
Please advise
<Mmm, you may well have trouble with the Wrasse and Trigger, even the Siganid, with any new fish additions... as these animals are territorial, and this is really not much space... I would rather you take a read on WWM, reference books and ask in turn what your likely "odds" are with any given choice of additions here. Perhaps start here: http://wetwebmedia.com/folvstkgfaqs.htm
Bob Fenner>

Fish Only Tank, 120 stkg., filtr.    7/23/08
Hey guys thanks for your time.
I am looking to convert my 120 tall to a fo system. I would like to have a dogface puffer, niger trigger and a Humu.
<Mmm, do make sure all are getting foods>
No live sand or rock.
<I would use LR...>
I was wondering if this tank is big enough for all 3.
<A bit crowded psychologically, but with proper set-up, maintenance, could be made to work>
I currently have a Rena xp3, a magnum 350 deluxe with bio wheel and a penguin 330. Would this filtration be enough for what I hope to do.
<Mmm, I would look into other types of filtration other than canister, outside power... and have more circulation. Likely otherwise you'll be constantly fighting the mal-affects of nutrient accumulation>
Also, is it a must to have a skimmer?
<I definitely would with this set-up, stocking>
I have been told it is not but I will need to do more frequent water changes than if I did.
<False economy... more expensive, less fun...>
I have a 35 gallon reef with a rio nano skimmer but I'm sure it would do no good on this system. Thank you for your advice, it is greatly appreciated.
<Mmm, do a bit of reading here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm
the first Index... on FO set ups, the second Index on Filtration... Bob Fenner>

Stkg. FO 125  7/22/08
Hey guys,
just a quick question, can a bird wrasse and a harlequin Tuskfish live together peacefully in a 125 gal?
<Should, yes>
There also is a porcupine puffer, antennata lionfish, powder blue surgeonfish
<The most sensitive here>
and possibly a Pinktail triggerfish? thanks!!
<The lion is too likely to get picked on, starved out by the Puffer and Trigger... Bob Fenner>

80 gallon... FO stkg., induced troubles, now and later  7/11/08
I have a clown trigger, Huma Huma trigger each about an inch big. A clown fish (2 inches), a valentini puffer about 3 inches, 1 yellow tail damsel, 1 Sailfin tang about (5 inches), and a dwarf lion about 2 inches in a 80 gallon tank.
<Mmm, the Clown Trigger will too likely "go after" the Lion, the rest of the fishes, the Rhinecanthus last, here... w/o any notice... I would remove it soon>
How long before I have to move out the triggers?
<Maybe months, perhaps a year... but...>
And can I add anymore fish to it? I was looking at a flame Hawkfish
<I would remove the triggers first... The Lion will likely inhale the Hawk, Clown, damsel... Bob Fenner>

General and specific salt water questions... FO Stocking and the nature of, but not the, truth  – 07/10/08
Hi guys,
This might be a drawn out explanation but I thought it best that you get the background and most information as possible. I thought I had been well educated from research and unfortunately trial and error in some cases on maintaining salt water tanks over the years and have gotten information from several local fish stores in my area so when I received collaborating information it seemed good and when I got conflicting information I tried to do some of my own research.
<Quite a lead-in>
But I have ventured into areas I have no experience in recently and came across your website and you guys seem to be the place to get the most abundant, accurate, and detailed information. so here goes.
I have had salt water fish only tanks since 2001. started out with a 55 gallon long with a hang on back overflow and an AMiracle sump system, I also added a protein skimmer into the sump. had a few fish in that tank, small ones like a clown and small angel (Koran I believe, have to forgive its been awhile) and some blue damsels and chromis. I moved in 2003 and unfortunately during the move the frame around the tank was broken and I did not want to chance the tank giving out so I bought a 65 gallon to replace it. I am much happier with that overall size and space inside then the longer skinny 55.
at the new place over the course of 3 1/2 years I had the clown some red leg hermit crabs, emerald crabs (although I seem to have trouble keeping the emeralds for more then a few months) the blue damsels and chromis( I believe only 2 each), tried a long nosed butterfly to no avail, after I lost one chromis and the butterfly probably 6 months apart, I ventured into more predatory fish.
The tank still had the sump and protein skimmer, probably about 10 lbs of live rock, an equal size amount of lace rock
<Some of this can be trouble chemically>
however a lot lighter of course all for structure.
<Eats bushes... then leaves?>
and a crushed coral bottom. also a powerhead with rotating arm to provide addition water circulation.
I bought a very small snowflake eel ( probably only 5 inches long and about as thin as a number 2 pencil) to go with the clown and 3 damsels left. the fish were fed a marine flake food mostly and about 1 - 2 times a week were given frozen mysis shrimp, live or frozen brine shrimp, or frozen Cyclopeeze. basically a variety of other frozen foods to supplement the flake food nutrition. the ell was fed ghost shrimp, frozen krill, squid pieces by hand and also small goldfish
<...>
that were kept and fed Cyclopeeze to help boost there nutrition for the eel. once the eel had gotten too large to be safely kept with the other fish ( unfortunately after the clown mysteriously disappeared) he was transferred into a 29 gallon tank with a Fluval 300 canister filter ( it can handle up to 75 gallons according to their information and was overkill for the 29 gallon tank but was bought with intentions to switch to the 65 gallon fish only tank)
the snowflake thrived in his own tank and about a year and a half ago I added a very small Tessalata eel and a very small lion fish.
<... you're joking? In a 29 gallon volume?>
I just recently moved again unfortunately and donated the damsels left back to my fish store and only kept the Volitans lion which is now about 7 - 8 inches long and "mane" when he spreads it is about the same, the snowflake is 15 inches long and about the thickness of a fat highlighter, ( sorry about the crude size comparison but its easiest I think to picture).
<A good one>
the Tessalata is only about 10 to 12 inches and only about 1/2 to 2/3 the thickness of the snowflake.
I have read through some of your responses to people questions and often tell people that their tank size is undersized for what the have as they grow. however they have what I think is more then adequate room to swim
<Mmm, no>
and I do have intentions of upgrading the size of their tank as they grow more. the lion is now on of the largest I have seen in person and never seen any for sale as large as mine so I am not sure how much larger he will get but I know the 2 eels will grow quite a bit over the next few years.
I was recently graced with a banded shark egg however as a surprise gift from my girlfriend who just started a job at a different local fish store. according to the people she works with they told her it would be ok for 8 months or so in that size aquarium until we save the money to upgrade.
<Mmm, no again>
but to watch the "newborn" once he hatches around the lion depending on size ratios he might be seen as food for the lion. but he should be large enough once hatched to not be seen as food for the eels.
I have intentions
<The road to heck is paved with them>
of upgrading to a 220 gallon tank she has at her store with internal overflows, and either a separate refugium and sump or one large combined unit underneath and transferring all 4 of those to that large tank once its needed.
my biggest questions are am I doing this all wrong????
<A bit stultified, yes... instead of "intending" to do things... there is another POV... that is providing adequate circumstances in advance of eventualities... Sort of like planning for retirement financially if you will>
do you think I will need a larger tank for all 4 of them?
<Definitely>
I love my lion and eels
<Mmm, were there time, interest, I'd like to banter with you re def. of "love"... To me, loving something is looking out for its best interests, not what it can/will do for you. Is this what you have done here?>
and cant wait for the shark to hatch. these more predatory animals to me are a lot more interesting of a fish tank to have then more standard marine fish.
<Fishes>
so I am willing to go get what is needed for them to be healthy and happy.
<Oh!>
space provided of course! I don't have room or money for 500+ gallon tank just yet!
also any links or advice on a better diet or more correct diet for my lion and eels and future little guy would be greatly appreciated.
<Already posted, archived, ready for you to read on WWM... look up the family accounts for what you have, intend to keep...>
like I said I thought I was pretty well educated on caring for salt water fish but after reading a lot of post on your site I am afraid I am another very under educated aquarium hobbyist
<I feel the same>
Thanks for any and all help
Dave
<Glad to co-conspire with you. Bob Fenner>

Re: general and specific salt water questions... Stocking and the nature of, but not the, truth... More ludicrous stmt.s  7/11/08
Thanks for the quick response Bob. It seems that while my intentions might have been good they have taken too long to put into action. I will do some more research on the site for help with more proper feeding and all but had a couple quick questions. I have gotten and seen several differences in opinions and haven't come across an example quite like my situation. so i thought it best to try to get a more direct answer.
At present i plan on keeping all 4. The 65 is the only tank set up at the moment with the lion and two eels, but i still do have the 29 that i can set back up again if needed.
<Good>
I would like to keep all of them in the same tank together if its possible, but you said that the 220 will not be large enough for those 4.
<Oh! It will be for a few years. Likely the shark will perish, and the piscivorous Muraenid will eat the other tankmates in turn during this time>
from what i have read the banded shark requires a min of 180 gallons.
so what size would i need to get or build in order to comfortably house them all together.
<... "they" really don't go together... again, please just read re these species... Your answers are posted on WWM. The Tesselata... gets huge, is a fish, other moray eater...>
also the possible addition of a second lion and i have had interest in a small blue spotted stingray
<... No...>
( i apologize for not knowing the name they are always listed as spotted stingray in the LFS) but i believe i have read in articles on your site that they stir up too much sand for the shark. is that correct?
<... please, don't write... Read instead>
so it might just come down to a second lionfish to go along with the one i presently have, the two eels, and soon to hatch shark.
i also was wondering if i should oversize the filter setup for what size tank i should get given they produce a lot of waste or will one suited for the tank size be ok.
one last question, i was pondering building a large tank for these guys instead of buying one and have found loads of info on the site and people referencing a how to section but i cant seem to find it. can you direct me on what to look for or search for? everything i seem to find is specific accounts or questions on what people are currently making. is there a general guide on what's needed and the do or don'ts?
<Where you should be, have started in the first place: http://wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/question_page.htm
RMF>

Bicolor Blenny or Wrasse?   6/19/08
Morning crew!
I have spent the last few hours going over all... well not all but most of the information on your site about blennies/wrasse. I am currently trying to figure out which fish
<There are quite a few (hundreds) of Labrids...>
to add next to my set-up. It will either be a blenny (most likely bi-color unless a wet web guru points me in another direction) or a Wrasse probably six line. I am leaning more towards the blenny since I am planning on adding a cleaner ship down the road. My tank currently is 50gallon breeder with a 2" sand bed and about 50lbs rock, also a 20gallon sump complete with a euro-reef 6-2+ modded skimmer, refugium and working on a DSB and Chaeto for the sump as well. Inverts: 2 small Turbos a serpent star and black sea cucumber. The fish load is as follows: smaller Kole tang around 3.5" pair of clowns about 2" a little chromis and an Anthias about 4" I realize I am just about at my fish stocking limit however I feel with such a massive skimmer on such a small system I think I can pull this off, plus
whenever the daylights are on in the tank my fish are always! almost "schooling" together...never a foot apart from each other (maybe they all just love each other) No major problems with this other than the occasional chase...but no tail nipping or damaged fins. So now for the official questions! Would a bi-color fare well in this set-up?
<Likely so... esp. if there's sufficient rock work/cover>
Are they/is there a hardier type of blenny that would fit my set-up?
<... an Ecsenius species is a good choice for such a small volume>
I find blennies very very cool! I like how they swim and how they have camouflage patters to help them blend in. I realize the bi-color is a comb-tooth species of blenny, do you think the blenny and the Kole tang would go after each other due to algae territory?
<Likely not>
I keep the Kole very well fed with an algae clip and he's always picking at the glass (I read this is something else the bicolor would do). Would you recommend a different kind of blenny? Would adding a blenny/wrasse to the current set up pose a risk of overstock?
<No, no>
If so I could remove the Anthias or chromis to accommodate a new addition. I would like to her some expert opinion and advice on which fish to add next to my tank.
<... too many choices>
If I opted to not add a cleaner shrimp down the road would a six line be a better choice overall?...
<No>
I'm kind of at a crossroad here and need some help/advice. Thanks again for the amazing website and plethora of information on your site, it really has helped me out greatly.
<Am glad you're enjoying, gaining from our efforts. Bob Fenner>

(no subject)- stocking? 6/13/08
What livestock would you recommend me putting in my 55 gallons tank?
<Heeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Fresh, brackish... wha? Keep reading... BobF>

50 Gallons of fish in a 5-Gallon Pail - 6/13/08
I have a 55 gallon tank. Would I be able to put a small maroon clown, a baby Huma Huma, and a baby porcupine puffer in there?
<Most certainly not. These fish would fight and be too crowded from the beginning, as they grew the problem would only become worse. Heavy feeding to sustain these fish would require tremendous water changes frequently. Also, please use punctuation and standard English syntax/grammar. It saves us time and effort, and do remember these will be archived for posterity on our website. Thanks much, Benjamin>

Compatibility, Large Tank, Large Angels, Butterflies, Stocking. - 6/7/08 *Bob or others, take a look, comment.*
I know I am annoying you guys so much but I just want to have a perfect tank...
<Don't we all? No annoyance to answer questions, it's what we're here for.>
please see that will these fish live happily together in an 800 gallon tank with plenty of hiding places and food.
<I envy your huge tank! Let's see about these fish...>
1 blue-ring angelfish 5-6 in
1 emperor angel 5-6in
1 majestic angel 5-6 in
1 Blueface angel 5-6 in
1 queen angel 6-7 in
1 Koran angel 7-8 inches
2 flame angels 3-4 in
4 regal tang 2-3 in
2 yellow tang 3-4in
2 purple tang 3-4 in
1 Desjardin sailfin tang 4-5 in
1 powder blue tang 3-4 inches
1 Dussumieri tang 5-6 inches
1 Naso tang 5-6 inches
3 falcula butterflyfish 3-4 in
2 golden butterflyfish 3-4 in
3 Bannerfish 3-4 inches
2 sandsifting gobies 3-4 in
1 magnificent rabbitfish 5-6 in
2 niger triggers 3-4 in
1 black trigger 5-6 in
1 male blue throat trigger 5-6 in
2 cleaner wrasse
Now I know it seems a bit overstocking
<It is, and more than a bit, in my opinion>
but I know from sources that most fish don't reach their adult size in captivity no matter what size aquarium.
<This might be because in an overstocked system they won't live long enough! Ignore this source...they are wrong. Furthermore, the greatest measure of stocking is not in inches of fish, but in psychological interactions. No matter how big a filter you have, fish will feel crowded...you're going to be dealing with stressed fish, and therefore lowered immune systems. Territorial doesn't begin to describe some of these fish, and they may fight or refuse to feed from the beginning>
Also about the cleaner wrasse, there will be so many fish they can feed off of and will not have food problems. I have specifically ordered this aquarium for the angelfish because people say you need a big one to keep this many.
<A very big one.>
And also my petshop has around 8 large angelfish species in their display and they never had problems for 2 years.
<Very short time compared to the lifespan of a marine angelfish.>
My LFS is reliable and can specifically order a specimen for me. They will even keep it for 2-3 weeks after the payment to ensure that the customer receives a good specimen. I will design my tank to have many hiding places at the back 18 inches or so
and leave the front with only some decoration so that the fish have both hiding and swimming places.
<I would provide cover in the form of live rock structure through most of the tank- pillars and arches will provide cover and swimming space. 18" of rock wall at the back simply won't house all these territorial fish.>
Please tell me your opinion on this...
<I think you're probably shooting for more than is possible here, but you certainly have an opportunity for a very, very neat aquarium. I'm not experienced enough with large aquaria to say exactly what I might put in here, or if your plan is entirely unfeasible- I'll flag this so that another crew member can comment as well.>
thank you
<Welcome. Benjamin>






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