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FAQs on Freshwater Infectious (bacterial, fungal) Diseases 5
Related Articles: Freshwater Fish Diseases,
Freshwater Diseases, FW
Disease Troubleshooting,
Choose Your Weapon: Freshwater Fish Disease Treatment
Options by Neale Monks,
Understanding Bacterial Disease in Aquarium Fish; With a gallery of bacterial infections, a discussion of “Fish TB”, and a listing of major antimicrobial medications with examples available to fishkeepers
By Myron Roth, Ph.D.,
Related FAQs: Infectious FW
Diseases 1,
Infectious FW Diseases 2,
Infectious FW Disease 3,
Infectious FW Disease 4, &
Finrot, Dropsy/Dropsical
Conditions,
Aquarium
Maintenance, FW Parasitic Diseases, African
Cichlid Disease 1,
Cichlid Disease, Betta
Disease 1,
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Growth on Gourami's mouth 09/15/09
Hi , I have a community tank with 2 Pearl Gourami fish and on the male
one he has a white cotton like growth on his mouth.
<Likely one of two things, a fungal infection, or else something called
Mouth Fungus that is, despite its name, a bacterial infection. Now, both
of these infections look similar, but there are clues that tell them
apart. True fungal infections are typically composed of fluffy white
threads, often likened to cotton wool. Mouth Fungus (also known as
Columnaris) tend to be more off-white to grey, somewhat slimy-looking,
and more like a lumpy growth than tufts. Some medications treat both:
for example Seachem Paraguard and eSHa 2000, in which case there's no
need to differentiate them. Avoid therapies based on either salt or
tea-tree oil (e.g., Melafix) as these tend to be unreliable.>
He has been acting weird and not eating properly.
<Both Mouth Fungus and regular fungal infections are typically caused by
one of two things, often in combination. Physical damage, such as
fighting or careless handling allows secondary infections to set in.
Ordinarily the fish's immune system would deal with these, but in tanks
with poor water quality, the immune system is weakened, and hence the
infection gets out of hand.>
I am not sure what the growth could be or what I should do. I have a 23
gallon tank and all water levels are fine.
<Because this fish is clearly sick and suffering from either fungus or
Mouth Fungus, I honestly don't believe the "levels are fine". If they
were, your fish wouldn't be sick. To recap, Pearl Gouramis will need
water with a stable pH between 6 and 8, hardness between 5-20 degrees
dH, zero ammonia, and zero nitrite. Males can be mutually aggressive,
and in a 20 gallon tank shouldn't be kept together.>
Thanks ,
Sonny
<Cheers, Neale.>
Treating Velvet and Mouth Fungus with Lace Synodontis in the
tank – 09/08/09
Hi there,
<Hello,>
My son pushed too fast to set up his tank and now has problems with
velvet and mouth fungus, and possibly some ich. There are three Danios
that definitely show signs of both the velvet and mouth fungus.
<I see.>
The problem is complicated by the fact that he also has a very sweet and
lovely large lace Synodontis catfish who we have totally fallen in love
with and she seems very sensitive to medication.
<Yes, this species (genus, family) can be. Removing to a quarantine tank
would be one solution.>
The tank is 50 gallons and these are all the inhabitants: 5 small green
tiger barbs, 3 large Danios, the lace Synodontis, a small bristle nose
catfish, a small clown loach, an Ngara, a blue dwarf Gourami, and an
algae
eating shark. It is a planted tank, but the plants can be replaced if
they don't survive treatment.
<Bit of a mixed collection! Not entirely convinced this selection of
fish will work in the long term. Ngara, for example, are Aulonocara
cichlids, and semi-aggressive, as well as fussy about water chemistry.
Clown Loaches don't stay small for long; adults are some 11 inches/27 cm
long. And so on.>
Do you have any suggestions for how we can eliminate the mouth fungus
and the velvet? We tried Rid Ich+, but the Synodontis seemed very
bothered by it.
<Various catfish are indeed sensitive to copper and formalin, so that
limits the range of options. Ordinarily, you'd treat Ick and Velvet
using a salt/heat method (raise temperature to around 82-86 F, add 2-3
level
teaspoons of tonic salt per US gallon of water. Run thus for about two
weeks. Keeping the tank dark (cover with a blanket) also helps, since
the free-living stage needs light.>
We have also used Melafix, which keeps the mouth fungus down, but does
not seem strong enough to totally cure it (and doesn't seem to do much,
if anything, for the velvet).
<Mouth Fungus is bacterial, and Melafix is a weak bactericide, at best.
Use a proper antibiotic such as Maracyn if you can, or else an
antibacterial based on an organic dye if antibiotics aren't easily
available in your region. I happen to like eSHa 2000, but there are
numerous other brands, such as Seachem Paraguard that work well too.
Read the instructions, and don't forget to remove carbon (if used) when
necessary. Don't mix medications, although you can use *one* medication
alongside salt without problems.>
Thanks very much for any help you can provide.
<While Velvet comes in with new fish, Mouth Fungus is triggered by
environmental issues, and this is something you must review. You can
keep treating the fish as much as you want, but if the underlying causes
(typically poor filtration, overfeeding, and/or overstocking) are
present, the problem will keep coming back. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Treating Velvet and Mouth Fungus with Lace Synodontis in
the tank 9/9/09
Neale,
<Constance,>
Thank you so very much for your advice and for responding so quickly.
<My pleasure.>
We'll get on it today. This is a fairly new project and my kid was not
properly changing the water and filter at first, which is a big part of
the problem we are dealing with now. We are on top of the water quality
now.
<Good stuff.>
We'll start cycling a sick tank, but in the meantime we'll try the
aquarium salt treatment and antibiotic. (And maybe we'll move Ngara into
the second tank after it is cycled and when it isn't being used as a
hospital because you are right that s/he is aggressive.)
<Indeed; a nice species, a very nice species in fact, but does need a
Malawi community setting really, perhaps mixed with the superb
Labidochromis caeruleus "Yellow Lab" for a nice contrast.>
I just want to double check that adding this much aquarium salt will
likely be tolerated by the lace Synodontis and bristle nose catfish. I
have read that some catfish cannot deal with salt.
<It's a misunderstanding about the salt. For a start, at least two
families of catfish live in the sea! Several other families have species
that enter brackish water. In any case, the amount of salt you are
adding is trivially low. Let's say you add 3 level tsp of salt. It's a
little under 0.25 oz per tsp, so that's about 0.75 tsp per US gallon.
Normal seawater contains about 4.75 ounces of salt per US gallon, so
what you're adding to your aquarium is actually about one-twentieth the
salinity of normal seawater. There's probably more salt in a can of soda
pop than that! It's really a very, very harmless dosage. While you
wouldn't want to use this addition of salt on a permanent basis, for a
couple of weeks it's a safer way to treat against Ick and Velvet that
copper- and formalin-based medications.>
With gratitude,
Constance
<Good luck, Neale.>
Re: Treating Velvet and Mouth Fungus with Lace Synodontis in
the tank 9/9/09
great! any place I can order the eSHa 2000 in the US? Or should I just
settle for Seachem ParaGuard?
<So far as I know, eSHa products are exclusively sold in Europe. Seachem
Paraguard is at least as good, and while it doesn't contain copper or
formalin, it does contain malachite green, so if you do decide to use
it,
watch your catfish carefully. Malachite green isn't copper (despite the
name) but an organic dye, and while these should be harmless, you never
know.
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/ParaGuard.html
eSHa 2000 contains a different organic dye, and while my Synodontis (and
pufferfish) never complained, as always, your own mileage may vary. You
might decide to opt for Maracyn or a similar antibiotic because of this.
Cheers, Neale.>
Bristlenose with fungus? – 08/04/09
Hi,
<Hello Kate,>
I have a bristlenose Pleco who has been sharing a 40-gallon aquarium
with a handful of African cichlids for the past 3 years. They normally
get along quite well; the cichlids ignore the Pleco (but maybe there's a
first time for everything...), and he usually stays out of sight in a
cave among the rocks during the day.
<Ancistrus are at risk of being harmed when kept with the more
aggressive African cichlids, particularly Mbuna.>
I had noticed that algae had been building up on the glass over the past
few days, but I assumed the Pleco was holding out for an algae cookie,
as he tends to do - he's a bit spoiled in that respect! This evening,
when I moved the rocks around to do my weekly water change & vacuum the
gravel, I was horrified to discover that the Pleco's snout was a mottled
pale colour, and that his bristles were almost all gone. His snout also
has a coating of some fuzzy white stuff that looks like fungus. He
usually scuttles out of the way when I clean the tank, but this time he
barely moved. He looks awful!
<Assuming it's fungus, which looks like white cotton wool threads, treat
accordingly.>
I had some Maracyn (about a year old - is this ok?) on hand, so I dosed
the tank with that,
<Unlikely to cure Fungus. The same goes for Melafix (tea-tree oil). You
do need a genuine anti-fungal medication.>
and I added a bit of extra aquarium salt as well.
<Don't. Salt won't help, and some African cichlids, such as Mbuna, may
develop bloating when exposed to saline conditions.>
All of the water parameters are normal.
<As in...? I need numbers, not judgments! Fungus is caused either by
poor water quality or physical damage. So, check firstly you have 0
ammonia and 0 nitrite. Secondly, think about the companions. Some
African cichlids are harmless enough when kept with Ancistrus, notably
Kribs. But Mbuna would be a very bad choice of tankmates, since they'd
persistently nip and buffet these poor catfish, causing physical
damage.>
I realize that a separate tank would probably be best, but my old
10-gallon tank is in storage and doesn't have a proper cover (and with a
new kitten in the house, this just spells disaster). Is it ok to
continue dosing the main tank? Is the treatment even worth it?
<Yes. Fungus clears up pretty well.>
The Pleco seems to be in really bad shape and I don't want him to suffer
needlessly if it's a lost cause.
<Well, the "suffer needlessly" bit assumes you're going to euthanise a
fish in a way that doesn't cause pain. See here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/euthanasia.htm
>
Thanks for any advice you can provide,
KW
<Cheers, Neale.>
Platies and Gourami poorly 7/31/09
Hello,
<Hi,>
I have a problem with my tank and wonder if you can help.
<Let's see.>
My system is a rio180 with the internal filter as supplied, tank has 14
x pentazona barbs, 3 SAE's, 3 Danios, red tailed black shark (as yet not
harassing anyone), one upside down catfish, 3 Columbian tetras, 4 rosy
tetras, 2 diamond tetras, about 10 platies, a Moonlight Gourami and a
Pearl Gourami.
<All sounds fine, though the Red-tailed Shark is a bit big (and a bit
aggressive) for this species. I'd also make the point that some of these
fish are fairly gregarious. Upside-down catfish for example should be in
groups of three or more, otherwise they'll be very nervous and shy.>
About 6 weeks ago I had new platies, and the moonlight Gourami. In Qt
the platies had a bit of fin-rot, which took about 2-3 weeks to clear up
fully (treated with eHSA2000 in the end). The Gourami had a little white
lump on one feeler, but nothing else occurred, so after 3 weeks in QT I
transferred them to the main tank.
<OK.>
Shortly before they transferred I treated a platy in the QT from the
main tank which had some signs of fungus on her back (not on the fins,
just on her body). She responded well, and all fish went in to the main
tank together.
<I see.>
Unfortunately after about 2 weeks in the main tank, the platy I had
treated for fungus died. She got progressively thinner, and despite
showing an interest in food, wasted until I euthanized her as she was
sitting on the bottom for about 3 days straight.
<Does sometimes happen; may be the "wasting disease" that sometimes
affects livebearers.>
About 10 days ago I noticed that about 5 platies had varying amounts of
tufted white stuff on their bodies, and pale patches on their fins.
Rather than treating them for fungus in the QT, I read up and decided
that after removing the carbon I was OK to treat in the main tank. All
bar one platy is now looking a lot better, I treated them for 3 days,
observed, and as there was little improvement, continued for another two
days as directed on the instructions for eHSA2000. That was now four
days ago.
<Now, if you're finding all of your livebearers are getting patches of
fungus, that's something else. Platies are generally hardy, but they do
need hard water, and if your water is soft and acidic, they will be
persistently sickly.>
Now I have one platy with what looks like pale bits / almost translucent
patches, sitting on the bottom, and another with tufts of white on the
body coming back.
<Not good.>
To make matters worse my beautiful moonlight Gourami has what looks like
an ulcer on her mouth, about 1-2mm across, and is not feeding. The ulcer
is pinky-white with a reddish patch, no tufts of white or anything.
<Sounds like incipient Finrot or similar.>
I carried out a 30% water change this morning after testing and finding
a nitrite spike of about 1ppm, ammonia 0, nitrate 20. Could the eSHa
have caused the spike? What can I do for my Gourami? And why are my
platies getting white tufty bits, despite repeated treatment with eSHa
(which suggests to me that this is the wrong treatment, or that I have a
pathogen I am not getting shot of)
<Given you have a variety of fish that are exhibiting bacterial and
fungal infections of an opportunistic type, I'd be thinking about water
quality and water chemistry issues, perhaps both. For the selection of
fish you have, you're after the following values: pH 7.5, hardness 10+
degrees dH.
This may require hardening the water a bit if you live in a soft water
area. Ammonia and nitrite should be 0, all of the time. If they're not,
review filtration, stocking density, and whether your filter is adequate
for the task (or properly maintained). The Rio 180 has a competent
filtration system, but the pump is a little on the weak side, and water
flow can easily diminish if the sponges are clogged.>
Any suggestions / treatment for the Gourami would be very much
appreciated.
I will test water again tomorrow - when I tested after the water change
there was no detectable nitrite or ammonia, and very low nitrate.
Thank you so much,
Regards
Sarah
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Platies and Gourami poorly 7/31/09
Hi
Thanks for the quick reply. I don't have test kits for PH and hardness
at present - we live in south Herts (Chorleywood) and the water here is
generally very hard; we use a water softener for the majority of the
house (not for the tap where the tank water comes from though, I hasten
to add).
<I see. I'm in Berkhamsted, so I imagine my water is much the same as
yours. I mix it 50/50 with rainwater, and find it works for most things
very well.>
I will see if I can get a kit when out today and test the water. I have
a spare hang on the back Fluval U2 filter I was given I think I will
plug this in as well, to see if it improves matters, and will give the
filter sponges a rinse out in tank water.
<Yes, do this. The Juwel 180 is a good tank -- there's one right here
next to me by the computer -- but the filter on these tanks generally is
not well suited to messy fish. Eventually, I ripped mine out and instead
use a pair of canisters, an Eheim 2217 and a Fluval 104. In any case, do
check the sponges, and do look to see if any of the inlet slots on the
black filter module are blocked, clogged with gravel, or otherwise
restricting water flow.>
Is there anything you can suggest for the Gourami- he's not eating and
the ulcer on his lower lip is looking quite sore.
<To be honest, eSHa 2000 is by drug of choice for this sort of thing.
You might do a daily saltwater dip (35 grammes non-iodised salt in one
litre of aquarium water) for a couple of minutes, as this sometimes
helps to keep infections clean, a bit like saltwater gargles for mouth
ulcers. Dunk the fish only until it shows signs of severe distress (like
rolling over) and then return to the aquarium.>
Water chem. today was ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 5 - but I did do a
40% water change yesterday.
<Much better.>
Thanks
Sarah
<Cheers, Neale.>
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Re: Brain damaged Flowerhorn?
7/2/09
Flowerhorn With Columnaris
He has been improving greatly, taking pellets, then this am I see this.. I
cannot find anything on your site and don't think it is columnaris but I
thought I would ask you. What is it and what med should I use?
<In a hospital tank, I would treat with an antibiotic like Nitrofurazone or
Erythromycin type of antibiotics. The little white columns are actually a
characteristic of columnaris.-Chuck>
Re: Brain damaged Flowerhorn?
7/2/09
Indication of Columnaris
Is it the larger white spot with the surrounding red or the flaking white
spiky things that indicate columnaris? (for my forums understanding as I
have posted pics) Thank you again so much. Lisa
< The spiky white things are columnaris. The big hole could be hole in the
head /trauma/or a bacterial infection. Treat with the antibiotics as
recommended. Get the nitrates down to under 20 ppm with water changes and
gravel vacuuming.-Chuck>
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TB? 6/26/09
Hello,
I've attached a photo ( sorry about the quality but I believe it shows what
I am talking about) of my Rasbora trilineata. I have had him for 1 month and
slowly I have noticed his spine in the caudal region has become bent.
Until now I believed it to be a birth defect that merely became more
noticeable as he grew.
<Indeed. Well, it's untreatable but unlikely to spread, so would
remove/euthanise this fish, but otherwise not worry over-much.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/euthanasia.htm
>
I have "trained" the fish to eat when I signal them so I can observe them
eat. For the past 3 days he has stopped eating even though he comes when I
signal, he does not eat. I have moved him into a quarantine tank to isolate.
He was in my 90 gallon tank with 5 neon tetras and 2 other Rasbora
trilineata. All added without quarantine as they were held in the same tank
together at the store for me for one month while my tank fully finished off
cycling ( I don't add until Nitrates are low and or algae is present).
Cycle was done using a fishless method with a grocery store bought and
rinsed shrimp in a rinsed stocking. I did not know fish could carry TB until
I came across a FAQ by Don and I am alarmed by the symptoms similarities.
<Fish TB is actually extremely rare, particularly among freshwater fish.
The vast majority of bacterial infections of fish are opportunistic, meaning
that they're caused by otherwise-harmless bacteria in the aquarium that are
*allowed* to cause disease because the aquarist isn't doing something right
in terms of water quality, diet, or whatever.>
While his trunk does not appear to be swollen compared to the others his
sudden loss of appetite and elusiveness are setting off alarms. If the most
prudent plan of action would be to put down the animals, what is the most
humane way to do this and also to dispose of the bodies without
contaminating anything else. If this does not seem to be TB what are my next
steps. Ammonia and Nitrite are 0 and Nitrate is 10 ppm. Lush bright green
algae on sides and back. I do 30 gallon water changes once a week.
Filtered with Aquaclear 110. The substrate is Eco-Complete plant substrate
one inch thick across entire bottom. Temp 76F pH 7. Two Maxi-Jet 1200's for
water movement. One bubble wand for oxygen. No Co2 injection. For lighting I
use Corallife 96 watt 6700k bulbs. Quarantine tank is a 12 gallon nano cube
that has been stripped down to have a sponge filter and is cycled.
<The tank sounds fine. In this case, I simply think you were unlucky, and
whether this fish has a birth defect, a viral disease, or some type of
obscure bacterial infection, I honestly don't think the other fish are at
major risk. So I'd certainly euthanise him (if he's not eating, he's not
going to get better) and then simply observe the other fish to see what
happens.>
Long term plan for this tank is heavily planted without co2 only using
common low light plants. Any advice is welcome I work with the public and
can not risk carrying/having/spreading TB.
<While Fish TB certainly exists, it's very uncommon. I'm not a medical
practitioner, so if you need public health advice, I have to recommend you
consult a qualified MD or vet. But in general, fish tanks are not a major
health risk, hence their wide use is hospitals, waiting rooms, shops, sushi
bars and the like.>
Thank you in advance.
<Cheers, Neale.>
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Re: TB? 6/26/09
Neale,
Thank you so much for your advice. I think I will take the fish to a vet to
be euthanized and possibly get them to run some tests on it to make 100%
sure.
<Hmm... would sooner you euthanised the fish yourself: I wouldn't trust the
average aquarium shop to make an effort to euthanise the fish humanely; most
simply feed sick fish to any predatory fish or turtles they have in stock.>
Although I no longer believe TB is an issue I figure it can not hurt to make
certain. I feed TetraColor tropical flakes by Tetra and have decided to
include frozen bloodworms to mix up the nutrition values.
<Good. While a good quality flake like Tetra Min should be perfect, adding
variety is always a good thing. I'd tend to recommend against
colour-enhancing foods as a staple; indeed, unless you have red fish, they
will have little/no impact on colours at all, and they don't do anything
that crustaceans such as daphnia won't do just as well. Carotene is
carotene, wherever it comes from...>
While I have your ear I would like to run a short stock list to be added no
sooner then a month from now. Hopefully then I will be sure there are no
pathogens, odd chemistry or poor nutrition taking place in this tank.
I want to add in this order.
3 Crossocheilus siamensis
3 (possibly more) Corydoras panda
5 Gasteropelecus sternicla
<All fine, though Gasteropelecus are flighty and prone to throwing
themselves at the hood if kept with boisterous fish or tanks without
floating plants.>
Do you think the TSAE will stress the hatchets out too much?
<Depends how deep the tank is; if the tank is something over 50 cm in depth,
I'd expect that the two fish would barely meet, since Crossocheilus tend to
stay at the middle to lower levels. But if the tank is very shallow, say 30
cm, then you might have problems. Boosting the number of Hatchets would make
a big positive impact: they're a lot more reliable in swarms of ten or
more.>
My tank is covered with eggcrate but I still don't want them freaking out.
<Floating plants help.>
I am unsure of what will come after but I believe I am pushing the stocking
limit of my tank. They will be added in family groups as to keep the load on
my quarantine tank low. Also how long should I allow my quarantine tank to
sit fallow before I can quarantine more fish? In closing I have to thank all
of you for the knowledge that has accumulated on this site. Neale has helped
me with other tanks in the past that have absolutely flourished.
Another invaluable article on tap water preparation, storing and polyvinyl
has saved me oodles of money/livestock. I have even earned a free True
Siamese Algae eater through helping my LFS separate their Flying Foxes,
False Siamese Algae Eaters and their True. Much of my success I owe to this
site. I wish I could remember all the authors of the various articles I have
read that have made me very skilled at aquatic husbandry.
<Thanks for your kind words!>
Also I would like to urge my fellow aquarist to get out there and shop the
local mom and pop fish stores. They do not seem to be doing well with the
economy, mega store and online competitors.
<All very true. But ultimately it does depend on the Mom & Pop store being
at least reasonably decent; too many of them had dingy tanks, limited
selections of fish, and questionable husbandry practises. Competition is a
good thing, and those family stores that can meet the demands of modern
aquarists can do rather well, particularly if they gear themselves up to
providing "value added" services such as setting up tanks in offices and
shops (a real money earner!) or visit aquarists at their homes to help with
marine and jumbo freshwater tanks that can cause problems to less
experienced hobbyists.>
Thank you!
<Cheers, Neale.> |
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Saprolegnia on
shark (RMF, second opinion?) <<Nada to add>> 4/26/09
Hi crew! Please help me! I am trying desperately to save my iridescent
shark.
<Yes, I can see from the photos he's in a bad way. A very difficult species
to maintain, and I fear the problem here is more about his environment than
anything else. Iridescent Sharks are food fish, and they simply don't do
well in home aquaria. While they can be kept in aquaria if you have lots of
space, 55 gallons isn't enough. Moreover, they are difficult fish to mix
with other species. Despite their size, they are super-nervous, and perhaps
surprisingly, should be kept in schools of 3 or more specimens.>
He is 5 years old. Was staying in an established 5 year old tank, 55 gallon,
with two kissing Gourami and a Pleco. Don't exactly know how he got hurt,
maybe fight with Pleco that is a foot long.
<Not so much a fight, but I do wonder if [a] the Iridescent Shark bruised
himself or otherwise develop a light infection; and then [b] the Plec took
advantage of this and started rasping away at the infected tissue. Plecs are
notorious for "latching" onto injured, moribund or otherwise slow-moving
fish that are exuding blood or mucous into the water. While I'm not 100%
sure, this is my guess here.>
My shark is 10 inches.
<Way too big for this aquarium. Even if the Plec exacerbated the situation,
the primary cause of the wound or infection was surely some combination of
water quality and/or physical damage, e.g., jumping into the hood or bumping
into ornaments. Heater burns are another common cause of mortality and
injury among catfish.>
The next day noticed the patch of cottony fungus, identified as saprolegnia.
I set up a10 gallon hospital tank at 80 degrees.
<Can't possibly keep this fish in 10 gallons. I'm surprised it even FITS
into a 10 gallon tank!>
I treated water with 1 tsp water conditioner (Jungle Start Right with
Allantoin, a skin protectant), 1 tsp of Wardley Ick Away (malachite green),
1 tsp. of Melafix and 1 tsp of Jungle Fungus Clear Tank Buddies
(Nitrofurazone, Furazolidone, potassium dichromate).
<Random medicating is usually not a good idea. Remember, while Fungus isn't
especially difficult to treat, it's a secondary infection that results from
poor water conditions and injury. In a case like this, you need the fish to
be in optimal water conditions, and even on his own, 55 gallons would barely
provide that, let along 10. You also need to treat with something very
specific for severe fungal infections; I'd recommend something along the
lines of Seachem KanaPlex. Melafix is useless once fungal infections are
established (I'll allow it might have some preventative value) and Ick
medication is clearly irrelevant.>
The only other items in the tank are the heater and an air stone. I have
been feeding him Jungle Anti-Bacteria Medicated Fish Food, but he does not
seem to be eating anything.
<Don't feed him at all until he's in a tank offering optimal water
conditions: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, low nitrate, pH stable around 6.5-7.5, and
moderate hardness.>
I clean up the food that he does not eat each morning. His eyes are clouded
over, maybe he can't find his food.
<Not a good sign; usually implies (if both eyes are cloudy) some type of
secondary bacterial infection. Again, KanaPlex should help.>
He has been in this treatment for 5 days, with no improvement, seems worse.
His body is almost completely covered now.. I am sending you pictures.
When will this treatment start to help?
<No.>
Or am I doing something wrong?
<Yes.>
Please help me!
<Done my best. While I've seen fish come back from worse (they really are
amazing sometimes) this does depend on optimal environmental conditions,
which I fear you're not providing. Seriously, this is a fish that needs a
tank twice the size of what you have, if not more, and a whopping filter
with massive water turnover and plenty of supplemental aeration. Iridescent
Sharks are classic riverine fish with little tolerance for stagnant water.
Adults are routinely 60-70 cm long under aquarium conditions, and wild
specimens twice that, weighing about the same as a family dog. Big fish.
Cheers, Neale.>
|
 |
Establishing an optimum bacterial population – 4/17/09
Dear Crew
<Hello,>
I have a question about establishing a bacterial culture in an
aquarium.
<Not an issue; the bacterial population will expand and contract to
the biomass of fish in the tank. The only limiting factors are
oxygen availability and physical space, the two issues that
determine whether a filter is adequate for the task. More flow =
more oxygen, and more media = more physical space.>
Long, long ago (in the 1970s) I was taught that an aquarium performs
best if it goes through a crisis, in the sense that it undergoes a
large bioload early in its life.
<Yes and no; the filter bacteria population grows precisely at the
rate determined by the oxygen availability, the physical space for
them to inhabit, the availability of ammonia/nitrite, the
temperature, and the pH. If you have a lot of ammonia early on, yes,
the bacterial population can grow rapidly compared to an otherwise
identical tank with less ammonia. But unless that high ammonia
concentration is maintained, the population will quickly die back to
a small population maintained with less ammonia. They don't
"hibernate" in any meaningful sense waiting for ammonia spikes weeks
or months apart. Hence, you need to cycle a filter with an ammonia
source equivalent to the biomass of the fish being added, and when
you do add further fish on top of that amount, you add them in
small, spaced apart batches so the bacteria population can multiply
upwards.>
To achieve this, when setting up a new aquarium I would get the
filters running, add some bacteria (usually sand from an established
tank), and throw in a few dead shrimps or a piece of fish fillet.
<As good a way as any.>
There would be no inhabitants in the tank except the bacteria. Over
the ensuing weeks, the meat would rot, the tank would stink, and
when the cycling process was finished, I’d do a large water change.
<Yep.>
The thinking behind this was that if you caused a crisis like this,
with a massive ammonia spike early in the piece, you would establish
colonies of bacteria in the filtering system that were at the
maximum potential that could be achieved.
<Sort of; what you're doing is creating a source of ammonia
equivalent to however much food you'd add if there was a fish in
that tank. It doesn't matter to the bacteria whether the ammonia
comes directly from a shrimp rotting on the sand or else a shrimp
that passed through the gut of a fish. Ammonia is ammonia is
ammonia. But, here's the thing: the art is in waiting for the
ammonia to drop to a safe level, and then adding a fish or two to
keep "topping up" that ammonia for those bacteria in the filter.
Consider an extreme example: say you waited three months. The
ammonia produced by the shrimp will have been all used up by then,
and the bacteria in the filter would have died back to some minimal
value. Likely not zero, because there'd be algae and other
micro-organisms in the aquarium, so there'd be some small amount of
ammonia, but nothing like as much as if there'd been a school of
Guppies.>
The idea was that this optimum population of bacteria would occupy
all the available sites in the system, and they would work at
nitrification as need arose.
<There's no "optimum" level you can build into a system; the
bacteria numbers will be limited by whatever is in least supply.
This is called the Law of Limiting Factors and affects numerous
biological systems. If ammonia is at a low level because a fish tank
is empty, it doesn't matter how big the filter is, or how optimal
the pH, or how perfect the temperature -- the bacteria population
will be small.>
In other words, if you had a small bioload in the tank, the bacteria
numbers would remain constant but they would have to work less.
<No. Allowing for a certain lag for the bacteria to die back, the
population would be exactly proportional to whatever is in least
supply.>
If you gradually increased the bioload to the maximum appropriate
for the size of the tank, the bacteria would adjust their metabolism
and work harder to cause nitrification. It was thought that the
population of bacteria would remain constant, with fluctuations in
activity depending on the bioload.
<Not sure they adjust their metabolism; rather, you have X bacteria,
or 10X, or a 100X bacteria, depending on how much of whatever
limiting factor is available.>
The concurrent idea was that if you didn’t cause a big crisis, but
cycled the tank by only placing in it a few hardy fish, the
bacterial population would establish only to meet that bioload, and
the colonies in the filters would not be as dense as it would have
been if you’d gone the ‘full crisis’ way.
<Yes, when you cycle with, say, 4 Guppies, you get sufficient
bacteria in the filter to consume the ammonia produced by 4 Guppies;
no more and no less.>
In other words, there would be less bacteria by using the slow
method.
<No, you get precisely the same. All depends on the limiting
factor.>
It was thought that this would constitute the bacterial population
for the life of the aquarium and that the numbers of bacteria would
not increase when you increased the bioload – the bacteria would
simply work harder to handle nitrification, and the system would
never be as capable of handling a large bioload or a crisis in the
way that a ‘full crisis’ system would..
<No; what limits the bacteria population isn't how you created the
tank, but what the conditions are at the moment. Double the amount
of ammonia in any aquarium and the bacterial population will (within
a certain period of time) double as well (assuming other factors,
such as oxygen or physical space, aren't limiting).
Therefore, it was taken for granted that, if you wanted an aquarium
to have its full potential for nitrification, the ‘full crisis’
method was the way to go.
<No.>
Now, this may be ‘old’ thinking, and I’d be glad if you would
comment on what current thinking is. I’m setting up a large
freshwater system that will eventually be heavily stocked, and I’m
debating whether to go with the ‘slow’ method with a few fish or to
use the fishless ammonia method to cause an initial spike in the
hope that it will give me better long-term results. Is there an
advantage of one method over the other?
<Absolutely no advantage to creating a "crisis" if you don't follow
it up with an equal amount of ammonia day-in, day-out. If you add
some shrimp and the ammonia concentration goes to, let's say, 10
mg/l, but then two weeks later has dropped to 1 mg/l, then the
number of filter bacteria in that aquarium will be precisely the
same as an aquarium given 1 mg/l every single day. Biological
systems are ALWAYS limited by whatever is in least supply at the
time, and NEVER expand to the potential of what might have been
there in the past or might happen again in the future.>
I’m sorry this is so wordy.
Les (Australia)
<Hope this helps, Neale.>
Re: Establishing an optimum bacterial population
4/18/09
Neale, that helps more than you can imagine. Many thanks for this
most comprehensive collection of information. That has settled years
of wondering for me. At last I can approach what I'm doing in an
informed way.
Best regards to you.
Les
<G'day Les. Happy to have helped. Good luck cycling your new tanks,
however you choose to do it! Cheers, Neale.>
Mollies with Columnaris and
Ich – 03/22/09
Hello Crew,
<Hello Carla,>
I'm in a bit of a quandary. I purchased three mollies the day before
yesterday, and placed them in my cycled 10 gallon quarantine tank (pH:
8.1, ammonia: 0, nitrites: 0, nitrates: 0 -- I had a bunch of extra
cuttings so
the tank is stuffed with live plants).
<Mollies don't do well in small tanks. They're very sensitive to nitrate
as well as ammonia/nitrite, and in small tanks it is very difficult to
keep them healthy for long. Minimum tank size for small Mollies
(Shortfin
mollies, black mollies, balloon mollies) is 20+ gallons, while large
Mollies (Sailfin mollies, liberty mollies) is over 30 gallons.>
Unfortunately yesterday I observed that one of the mollies had what we
used to call cotton mouth or mouth fungus.
<Very common with Mollies, especially when kept in freshwater
conditions.>
I understand, from researching your site, that this is likely Columnaris
(bacterial).
<Indeed. You will need a suitable antibiotic or antibacterial (as
opposed to a make-believe solution such as tea-tree oil or salt.>
Today I also observed two Ich spots (sure glad I quarantined). I was
going to go the salt + heat route, but I learned (also from researching
your site), that Columnaris grows faster with higher heat.
<Your options are limited here, but in this case, I'd raise the salinity
to deal with the Ick, and treat with an antibiotic/antibacterial at the
same time. Since Mollies are best kept at SG 1.003, I'd recommend 6
grammes of marine salt mix per litre of water. There's not much point
trying to keep Mollies in a freshwater aquarium because they rarely
(seemingly, less than 50% of the time) do well. You're also fighting
with one hand behind your back because the tank is so small, so a
difficult job is being made twice as hard.>
My questions are: Should I raise the heat, and how I can treat both the
Columnaris and Ich concurrently? Also, should I remove my plants?
<Plants will not be affected by antibiotics or antibacterials used
correctly, and a salinity of SG 1.003 is fine for hardy, salt-tolerant
plants.>
Thanks very much for your help and your wonderful website.
Carla
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Mollies with Columnaris
and Ich 3/23/09
Thanks very much for your help. The Mollies are currently in a ten
gallon tank because they are in quarantine (their permanent home will be
a 40-gallon heavily-planted breeder tank).
<Ah, that makes sense. A 40-gallon system will be perfect.>
The water parameters of that tank are:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 8.2
Carbonate hardness: approximately 200 mg/L CaCO3
<That's 200/17.8 = 11.2 degrees KH. That's extremely high, and while
perfect for Mbuna or Central American livebearers, a lot of other fish
will find that a bit on the hard side for their tastes. Do be aware when
choosing fish and plants.>
Their tankmates will be Wrestling Halfbeaks, Scarlet Badis, White
Clouds, and Threadfin Rainbows.
<Halfbeaks will thrive, the others should tolerate, but may not show
optimal colours or longevity.>
I was hoping the Mollies would do well without salt because of the high
pH and hardness, and I wasn't sure (aside from the Halfbeaks) whether
the plants and other residents would appreciate the salt.
<Plants that tolerate hard water generally do well in slightly brackish
water too; species such as Vallisneria, Hygrophila, Java ferns, hardy
Crypts, etc. If you have plants that need soft water, chances are they
aren't going to thrive a this level of carbonate hardness either, so
it's a moot point. As for the fish: Halfbeaks tolerate salt well, but
the others are truly freshwater fish.>
But I will add salt and remove some of the other residents and non-salt
tolerant plants if necessary.
<Would be my recommendation. Mollies deserve a tank of their own:
they're spectacular fish, and wonderful pets. But they are finicky in
freshwater systems. They need perfect water quality. You might decide to
medicate them in the quarantine tank, and when they're healthy again,
try them out in a plain freshwater tank. With luck, you'll be okay. But
if you find you're constantly having to deal with Fungus and Finrot,
remove the Minnows, Rainbows and Badis, add a little salt, and maintain
the system at SG 1.002-1.003.>
I've started to slowly raise the salinity of the quarantine tank, and
I'm off to the LFS to pick up the antibiotic and a hydrometer. I believe
we have Maracyn and Maracyn II available here (Canada), so I will
purchase
both.
<Cool.>
A couple more questions, if you'll bear with me:
<Of course.>
Which Maracyn product would be most effective against Columnaris?
<Maracyn rather than Maracyn 2 is usually used first. It contains
Erythromycin, which should work on Flexibacter columnaris.>
If the Mollies recover, when would it be safe to place them into my main
tank (so that Columnaris does not contaminate that tank).
<Columnaris, like Finrot, is a disease latent in all tanks, and the
bacteria involved is presumably harmless most of the time. It appears
not because a fish "caught" the disease, but because the fish was
somehow
weakened, and its immune system overwhelmed. So provided the other fish
are healthy, you shouldn't worry about cross-contamination.>
Thanks again...
<No probs.>
Carla
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Mollies with Columnaris and Ich - Update 04/03/09
Thanks very much, Neale, for your advice. Just thought I would give you
an update on the Mollies. I used the salt + heat treatment for the ick,
and the ick has disappeared.
<Good.>
For the mouth rot, I couldn't find Maracyn at my LFS, so I used TC
capsules (tetracycline). The mouth rot hung around during the course of
the treatment (5 days), and then I had an ammonia spike (the packaging
on the TC capsules claims that they will not affect the biological
filter, but I suspect otherwise).
<Oh dear.>
Unfortunately one of the Mollies died (oddly, it was the healthiest,
dominant female).
<Sorry to hear that; I wonder why?>
I subsequently performed 75% water changes for the next several days to
control the ammonia, used activated carbon to remove the tetracycline,
then added some nice filthy filter media from my other tank to
repopulate the nitrifying bacteria. Over the next several days, the
mouth rot on the remaining Mollies disappeared, but I'm not sure if I
can attribute it to the tetracycline or the water changes.
<It's a combination: the antibiotic kills off the bacteria, but improved
water quality allows the fish's immune system to repair the damage and
prevent re-infection>
Anyway, the remaining Mollies have recovered, and in a week or so, I
will remove them from quarantine and place them in my 40-gallon tank.
<Great.>
Also, you were right, the salt did not seem to affect my plants
(Hygrophila polysperma, Hygrophila corymbosa, Rotala rotundifolia, Java
Moss, and Bacopa monnieri).
<Not sure about Rotala, but certainly the others are happy in brackish
water, let alone slightly salty/warm water of the sort used to treat
Ick.>
Thanks again for your help,
Carla
<Thanks for the update, Neale.>
Treating illness with central filtration 3/28/09
I work at a retail store with fresh water tanks, where all the tanks
share a large single sump filter.
<Oh?>
I would like to know what the best way to treat ich and fungus in this
situation are, because quarantining is a not an option for me
unfortunately.
<Since the free-living Ick parasite moves for 24 hours or more through
the water column, you can reliably assume all the other fish have been
exposed to the parasite.>
Currently I turn the filter off
<No.>
and treat each tank with ich medication
<If you want, assuming all the livestock are copper/formalin-tolerant;
invertebrates and snails won't be, and some fish, particularly loaches,
puffers and some catfish are also sensitive.>
aquarium salt
<Salt + heat can work.>
and Melafix for a while before turning the filter back on.
<You must leave the filter running. A dead filter will kill more fish
more quickly than Ick! The only precaution here is to remove carbon
prior to using medication.>
Would it be better to leave the filter on and add medication directly to
the sump?
-Kevin
<Hope this helps. Cheers, Neale>
Fungus 1/24/09 Hello Neale,
I'm back with a new issue this time. I have 1 Cory with fungus and 1 rosy tetra
with a small white fungus on its mouth. Other fish in the tank don't show any
evident sign of fungus. A couple of weeks ago I treated the entire tank with
Melafix and it seems to have improved things a lot. However the fungus is not
gone and today I noticed a lot of cotton like fungus on one of the Cory's fins.
I'd appreciate if you could give me some advice on the following points: -
Would you suggest isolating the affected fish in a hospital tank or treat the
entire tank where the fish are now living with their friends? On one side I'm
afraid that treating the big tank would affect the nitrifying bacteria, on the
other side I think that if I don't treat a fish that seems to be fine but is
instead hosting the fungus would re-start things from square 1 in a matter
of time. - Is there any medication you would recommend? Anything that you
tried or heard works well and possibly does not affect bacteria? Thank you,
Giuseppe <Salutations! Hmm... Melafix... what you're observing is precisely
why most of us here don't recommend this product. Sometimes it works, sometimes
it doesn't. Anyway, when treating Fungus, there's no point isolating fish
because it isn't "contagious" as such. Fungal spores are in all aquaria, and
mostly the fungi do good work breaking down organic material. Only when fish are
damaged or stressed does the fungus attack the fish. The issue is this: a
healthy fish has an immune system that kills fungal spores 100% of the time.
When a fish is damaged or stressed by its environment, its immune system stops
working properly, and the fungal infection becomes established. This is why when
you see Fungus on a fish, you NOT ONLY treat the fish, but you ALSO think about
why the Fungal infection happened at all. In terms of treating, I'd recommend
eSHa 2000; this is a Dutch product widely sold in the EU. It's the product I use
for Fungus and Finrot, and it's worked every single time, even on delicate
species such as Puffers. Elsewhere in the world you'll need to find some
other anti-Fungus medication based on copper and/or formalin. These tea-tree oil
medications are too unreliable. Cheers, Neale.>
Tuberculosis in a Well-Maintained Tank 11-5-08
Hi Bob :-)
This is Anna.
<Hi Anna, this isn't Bob, but Merritt today.>
Before I start I wanted to let you know that I've learned a lot from the
WetWebMedia site, especially regarding fish tank maintenance. I am a big
fan of partial water changes (up to 1/3 of a tank) which I perform every single
week.
<That is quite a lot of water changes; you should cut back on them due to the
stress they are causing on your fish.>
My tank is freshwater, 35 gallon, with a score of live plants and just 15 fish -
mostly tetras, 1 Pleco, and 3 albino Cory fish. There are no real problems
although this morning I noted that one tetra had a few red wounds (?) along its
nape region and dorsal fin. The wounds are approx. of a size of a head of a
needle. There are approx. 10 of them. I studied Dr. Dieter Untergasser's
"Handbook of fish diseases" and concluded, based on content and pictures, that
my tetra may have tuberculosis or be affected by a type of Sporozoan. Attached
are some pictures of the fish under the mentioned conditions.
<The wounds do not look like tuberculosis, watch them to see if they show more
signs of tuberculosis, like the bending of the spin, fish wasting, skeletal
deformities or loss of scales and coloration .>
The description of either illness suggests that bad water condition be a
culprit. The ammonia level in my tank is 0.00, the pH is 7.2-7.4. I run 2
Marineland filters and take a good care of my tank. This is why I am a little
confused...
<Like I said, your tank may have great conditions but constant water changes
stress fish out which lessens their immune system allowing for disease.>
Anyway, I transferred the infected tetra to a 5-gallon hospital tank.
<Great move!>
Will you be able to shed little light as for the cause of my fish's condition?
Am I able to help that fish? What should I do? I would not like to sacrifice it.
I hope there is a cure... Besides, do you think that my display tank is in
danger? I just changed 50% of the water and replaced all filter pads. Is there
anything else I should and could do? I will appreciate any insights. Your
experience is extremely valuable and needed :-).
<It would be best to treat your sick tetra for a protozoan infection due to the
wounds resembling protozoan infections other than tuberculosis. I would watch
the other fish for any signs of sickness and cut down on the water changes. If
the symptoms persist after you medicate for the protozoan, then tuberculosis
could be the culprit. Tuberculosis is of bacterial origin and you will have to
switch the medication. Watch yourself if the symptoms for tuberculosis do
develop because you can catch it from your fish. Mainly persons of low immune
systems are susceptible but, just be careful. Here are some links about disease
and medication
that should help you. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwfishmed
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwdistrbshtart.htms.htm and
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/woundbactf.htm>
Thanks in advance for your help.
ANNA
<You are welcome and please email updates! Merritt A.>
Fallow tank (and more!), FW infectious
disease... 8/6/08
Hi Crew!
I have a few different things to write in about, but if I remember
correctly, you prefer them all in one email. Sorry in advance for the
length, but more info is good, right?
<Up to a point...>
There's a previous reply from Neale below this email, since unfortunately
I'm writing in about the same thing again. After the Betta and African dwarf
frog died, my tank was empty of fish (and frogs) for probably six weeks
total. I didn't end up adding any medication to the empty tank, on the idea
that, like Neale said, there will always be "harmful" bacteria floating
around at "non-harmful" levels until a fish is injured or stressed enough to
become susceptible to infection.
<Correct; Finrot (or Red-leg in the case of amphibians) is a response to
environmental problems rather than a disease that creeps into the tank
unseen.>
I didn't want to wreck the good-bacteria system, so instead I did large
water changes and added three male guppies.
<Do remember fancy Guppies are NOT HARDY. They are very delicate fish and
should only be kept in clean, mature aquaria. Small tanks aren't suitable
because you can't keep water chemistry/quality stable easily in them.>
One of them died after a run-in with the tank vacuum--my fault. I'd had the
other two for about six months when one of them started looking a little
large in the belly. He was more aggressive and usually got more of the food,
so I thought maybe he was just getting a little plump. After about a week
the swelling had only grown, and the other fish looked perfectly healthy, so
I separated the swollen one and put Epsom salt in his water
for a week, thinking maybe he was constipated. That didn't help, so I
treated him with two rounds of Jungle Fungus Clear (Nitrofurazone,
Furazolidone, potassium dichromate). That didn't help either, and like the
Betta he soon got the pinecone look and died. By then the remaining guppy
was looking swollen too.
<That a succession of fish are dying from fairly generic symptoms means just
one thing: environmental problems. This tank is, for whatever reason, not
conducive to the long term health of fish. Tanks 10 gallons in size are not
recommended for beginners, and anything smaller than, say, 8 gallons is not
suitable for fish at all, except perhaps a single Betta. These 2 and 5
gallon tanks you see on the market are essentially worthless, being
accountable for the deaths of VAST numbers of fish.>
I changed the filter and removed the carbon, and added the medication and
the Epsom salt right to the tank, hoping that if the medication is capable
of nuking whatever this is, I
might as well add it to the whole tank, as I probably should have in the
first place, as Neale suggested. I added the Epsom three days ago (1 tsp/5
gal), and the medication two
days ago. There's been no improvement. Today I added more Epsom (1.5 tsp/5
gal) and a little more medication as the water was looking lighter (the
medication turns it blue). I figured the fine gravel substrate might be
absorbing some of it.
<You really can't "nuke" a tank hoping to get rid of all the problems except
by sterilizing it, and that will of course kill the biological filter. This
is why healthcare is a two-step process: first you ensure ideal conditions,
and second you identify and disease and only then treat with an appropriate
medication. Randomly adding stuff like salt, Epsom salt, Methylene blue or
whatever in the hope of killing whatever is in the tank just doesn't work.
Never has done, never will. It's the same reason your doctor asks for your
symptoms before prescribing a treatment -- only the right medication will
help, and the wrong ones could cause more harm than good.>
It's a 2.5 gallon tank, 79 degrees, with aquarium salt at 1 TBSP/5 gal.
25-30% water changes weekly, live plants, one painted acrylic tank
decoration (the paint is not wearing off), compact fluorescent lighting,
in-tank Mini Whisper filter. The guppies ate whatever algae they could find
in the tank, and flake food, as they rarely seemed to recognize
anything else (bloodworms, Tubifex worms, algae wafers) as food.
<This tank is just no good for fish. End of discussion, and no further
treatment will help. A tank this size simply isn't viable for fish. By all
means add some Cherry Shrimps and novelty snails that don't breed, such as
Nerites. But nothing else. The Cherry Shrimps will have babies and provide
lots of entertainment value as well as being brightly coloured. Please,
please trust me on this.>
My best guess is that the same thing happened to all three fish, and I'm
assuming it's an internal bacterial infection.
<No; "internal bacterial infection" is (in my book at least) the term most
commonly used by fishkeepers who don't want to face facts. It's really very
simple: in a tank this small the filter can't process waste fast enough to
keep the fish healthy. The water isn't sufficient to dilute the ammonia and
nitrite adequately that these don't poison the fish. There isn't enough
water to dilute the organic acids that accumulate between water changes. The
volume of water is too small to keep temperature stable. The surface area is
too small for oxygen to diffuse in quickly enough to satisfy fish. There is
really, HONESTLY no way this tank will keep fish for anything more than a
"death row" sort of existence.>
The medication that I have does not seem to be making a difference. Do I
need to try a
different treatment?
<Nope; different tank.>
Is it too late for treatment by the time the swelling has gotten bad?
<Likely, yes; with small fish by the time abdominal swelling occurs the
internal organs are damaged beyond repair.>
I certainly could've stepped in earlier with the medication, but was hoping
it was just constipation or too much food until it was obviously a different
problem.
<"Hope" is adequate for football games, but where animal welfare is at stake
you have to be a bit more proactive. Any book on Guppies would have told you
that they need a reasonably big tank (at least 10 gallons, and I'd recommend
at least 20 gallons because of their delicacy and aggression). So your first
mistake was not reviewing their needs and then putting them into a tank
woefully small.>
Do I need to put the little guy out of his misery at this point, or do you
think he has a chance?
<I don't think any fish has a chance in this tank. I honestly can't in good
conscience recommend you add/buy any more fish until you've bought at least
a 10 gallon system and ideally a 20 gallon system.>
He's behaving as though he's perfectly fine--he's always been very
active--but the swelling is very noticeable and has not gone down at all. I
skipped feeding him last night because
I was worried over putting anything else in his stomach with all that
swelling. He has a healthy appetite and there's no pineconing.
<OK.>
In other news--my brother has a Betta in a similar setup, with no salt. He's
around three years old now and I know that's quite old for a Betta. He's
developed a lump under his scales, about a third of the way down his body,
on the left side only, and the scales over it are protruding. His right side
is perfectly smooth. I added Epsom on the off chance it was a blockage or
that it was swelling that could be alleviated, but it hasn't improved much
if at all. My educated guess says it's a tumor, since he's old and the lump
is only on one side. I'm assuming there's nothing to do for him, but I
figured that while I was
writing in, I'd ask if there was.
<Would tend to agree; 3 years is about the going rate for a well cared for
Betta. I notice (with appreciation!) the lack of salt. As I have said MANY
times, salt has no place in freshwater fishkeeping except for specifically
treating certain diseases in the short term.>
And, lastly, I'm babysitting a roommate's goldfish for the summer. He came
to me in a quart-sized bowl. I don't have the resources to gift my roommate
with the 10+ gallon filtered tank the goldfish should be living in, but we
did get him an acrylic bucket-shaped (more surface area) container of about
1.5 gallons.
<Goldfish need more than 10 gallons, at least 30, and 1.5 gallons is simply
cruel. This poor fish will be dead well before its time. Make sure your
friend understands that what she's doing is animal abuse; if you can't have
bigger tanks in your apartments, then don't keep fish. If you want to own
and care for an animal, then meet its needs. There's no "in between"
situation that lets you rationalise away slowly poisoning a Goldfish with
its own filth, which is what's happening here. I find it strange that people
in the UK and US will be horrified at reports of people in Korea eating dogs
or the Spanish fighting bulls, and yet have absolutely no qualms at all
about exposing the poor Goldfish to years and years of torture and
poisoning. Quite bizarre.>
I think he's a comet--upper third is orange, the rest silver/light gold,
just shy of 2" nose to caudal peduncle.
<Ah, the Comet... one of the varieties best kept outdoors. It's a fast,
active variety, apparently developed in the US of A. Deserves better
treatment than this.>
She had the fish for about four months before I got him. I'm hoping his
growth hasn't been completely stunted and that he'll get the benefit of a
little more breathing room.
<Hmm... a marginal improvement at best, like getting to choose between the
arsenic or cyanide really.>
In the meantime--his "bucket" has the same fine gravel that I used for the
guppy and Betta tanks. It's definitely small enough to fit in his mouth, and
he likes to pick the pieces up and spit them back out, which as I understand
it is typical goldfish behavior. I've never seen him swallow one, but I'm
worried that if he did, it's large enough that he wouldn't be able to pass
it. Is he a gravel-swallowing case in the making, or should I leave well
enough alone?
<Goldfish sometimes do choke on coarse gravel, but pea gravel and better yet
sand is absolutely ideal for them. They sift the substrate with their teeth
(in their throats) and gills, and then spit the sand out. Any sand that
carries on into the gut comes out the other end just fine. It's what they
evolved to do.>
Thanks, for the umpteenth time, for everything you all do--I've been
visiting, searching, and reading the site for two and a half years now, and
I don't know what I'd do without such a great resource. It's like having a
good textbook that you can query!
<I'm glad we're able to help.>
Look forward to hearing from you,
Rachel
<Hmm... not sure you'll be too pleased with my analysis, but it's accurate
and honest. The best I can do in this situation. Your move. Cheers, Neale.>
eSHa product info., link 7/23/08
Hi Bob & WWM crew,
Just wondering if any of you have the composition for Isha2000; I
cannot find it anywhere on the net. If you don't have the info do
you think it would it be safe to use with Nerite snails?
<Mmm, please see here:
http://www.eshalabs.eu/pages_engels/faqs_engels.html>
It would be used for columnaris & I am hoping my diagnosis is right:
White lips, cottony growth from the mouth, fin rot.
I introduced 5 Tanichthys linni into a quarantine tank 54L with 4
existing Tanichthys albonubes which had been there for 2 wks already
- big mistake!. One linni mysteriously died & was found half eaten,
another with a long stringy cotton substance hanging from it's
swollen mouth was euthanized with clove oil & the remaining I took
back to the shop annoyed after 8 weeks of waiting. One of them had
Finrot - another mistake - triple check before purchase!
The albonubes were hospitalized with Nifurpirinol for 4 days
(repeating treatment on the 7th day) today they are back in the very
clean quarantine tank which I dosed with Pimafix (pimenta 1.0%) 4
days ago. I stopped with this product after 2 days only because my
Nerite snails seemed to be robbed of oxygen & I couldn't stand the
smell; changed the water at least 4 times.
I feel that something nasty is lurking about as I have just caught
one of the albonubes banging into the driftwood. I don't know if it
was a good idea to put them back before doing the second half of
Nifurpirinol.
I have just added 1 flat teaspoon of rock salt.
Two of the albonubes have very pale white lips & one as I can make
out red lips with white spots, very difficult to judge as they move
so quickly. They are not eating very much either maybe because of
the treatment.
I don't think the Nifurpirinol as worked very much & over here
?France? they do not have medicated food. Not allowed apparently!
Water parameters: fine
Another thing I am worried about is that I may have contaminated the
main tank 200L by using the same equipment for cleaning purposes.
If you could advise me on the next steps to take and diagnosis that
would be great. I'm already attached to these cute little guys!
So sorry for this long letter.
Cheers Jeanette
<Bob Fenner, sending to Neale for further input>
Re: Tanichthys spp.; Columnaris
7/23/08
Hi Bob & WWM crew,
Just wondering if any of you have the composition for Isha2000; I
cannot find it anywhere on the net. If you don't have the info do
you think it would it be safe to use with Nerite snails?
<It's eSHa 2000, made by the Dutch company eSHa Labs:
http://www.eshalabs.com/esha2000.htm
>
It would be used for columnaris & I am hoping my diagnosis is right:
White lips, cottony growth from the mouth, fin rot.
<Certainly sounds like it.>
I introduced 5 Tanichthys linni into a quarantine tank 54L with 4
existing Tanichthys albonubes which had been there for 2 wks already
- big mistake!. One linni mysteriously died & was found half eaten,
another with a long stringy cotton substance hanging from it's
swollen mouth was euthanized with clove oil & the remaining I took
back to the shop annoyed after 8 weeks of waiting. One of them had
Finrot - another mistake - triple check before purchase!
<Oh dear!>
The albonubes were hospitalized with Nifurpirinol for 4 days
(repeating treatment on the 7th day) today they are back in the very
clean quarantine tank which I dosed with Pimafix (pimenta 1.0%) 4
days ago. I stopped with this product after 2 days only because my
Nerite snails seemed to be robbed of oxygen & I couldn't stand the
smell; changed the water at least 4 times.
<I'd probably remove Nerite snails while treating the tank. Put the
snails in a large plastic carton or bucket, and put the lid on
loosely to stop the snails escaping. If you change 50% the water
daily, they should be fine during summer for a week like that.>
I feel that something nasty is lurking about as I have just caught
one of the albonubes banging into the driftwood. I don't know if it
was a good idea to put them back before doing the second half of
Nifurpirinol.
<Diseases like Columnaris and Finrot don't "lurk" as such -- the
bacteria are latent in all aquaria. Normally they do no harm
provided the fish is healthy. Think of them as being like E. coli on
humans. It is when the environment deteriorates for some reason they
become trouble. So if you (or the pet shop) have problems with them,
you (they) need to review issues such as nitrite, ammonia, and pH
stability.>
I have just added 1 flat teaspoon of rock salt.
<Won't help at all, and could potentially stress these freshwater
fish.>
Two of the albonubes have very pale white lips & one as I can make
out red lips with white spots, very difficult to judge as they move
so quickly. They are not eating very much either maybe because of
the treatment. I don't think the Nifurpirinol as worked very much &
over here ?France? they do not have medicated food. Not allowed
apparently!
<Antibiotics for treating fish aren't available over-the-counter,
i.e., from aquarium shops. But vets can supply them.>
Water parameters: fine
<Define "fine". It is really VERY rare for Columnaris to "come out
of the blue" for no reason at all. So review conditions. It sounds
like these fish were sick in the aquarium store though.>
Another thing I am worried about is that I may have contaminated the
main tank 200L by using the same equipment for cleaning purposes.
<Possible, but as I say provided the 200 Litre tank contains healthy
fish in a healthy environment, I'd be very surprised if they got
sick.>
If you could advise me on the next steps to take and diagnosis that
would be great. I'm already attached to these cute little guys!
So sorry for this long letter.
Cheers Jeanette
<Hope this helps! Bon chance, Neale.>
Re:
Tanichthys spp.; Columnaris 7/24/08
Selon
Dear Neale,
Thank-you for your advice & indeed the grammar lessons!!
<What grammar lesson? Nothing to do with me...>
I have already looked at WWW.eshalabs.com. They state nowhere the
composition for this product. I will contact them.
<Likely a "trade secret" so I wouldn't be too hopeful!>
Concerning the issue of antibiotics, sorry I did not make myself
clear, I was referring to the antibiotic compounds readily available
through the net and in the States e.g. Minocycline (Maracyn 2),
tetracycline (Mardel) & Nitrofurazone (jungle labs) & maybe many
many more.
<These are ONLY readily available in the US; in the UK and France,
and likely the European Union generally, they are not available (to
the best of my knowledge anyway). The US has relatively lax rules on
antibiotics compared with Europe, Canada and Australia. There are
pros and cons to both sets of laws, outside the scope of this
query!>
These are prohibited in France for over-the-counter sales and
through the net. Of course I can go to a vet to get these but I
would be charged 50 Euros for the prescription.
<Not different here in England, though much less expensive than 50
Euro. So I'd ring around your local vets.
This is beside the point. The point is you can buy antibiotics
over-the-counter!
<No, I really can't!>
Water parameters as follows:
ph 8
GH 12°d
KH 10°d
No2 0
No3 13
Nh3 0
°C 26
<All sounds fine.>
By the way "don't" is the correct informal spelling for "do not".
<Indeed it is. This is apropos to what?>
Thanks
Jeanette
<Cheers, Neale.>
|
Bala shark and silver dollar fish,
hlth., eyes are more than mirrors of the soul... 7/3/08
Hi, I recently adopted 6 tropical fish. It was a long process. so the
fish were without a filter and pump for about 3-4 hrs, but before we got to
them they were in a large bucket with an air pump for about 2-3hrs. Anyways
we got them setup in a 55 gal tank. The following morning we notice the Bala
shark and silver dollar fish had cloudy eyes. All the other fish are fine. I
would like to know are the fishes just stressed or does it sound like a
parasite. We were told by the previous owners that they are all healthy.
please write me back. Thank you Annie
<Cloudy eyes can be caused by a variety of things, but by far the most
probable are physical damage and/or water quality issues. If multiple fish
have cloudy eyes, then I'd suggest water quality is the thing. So review in
particular the nitrite and/or ammonia levels, and also check that the pH is
stable (doesn't matter much what it is, just that it doesn't change). Repair
water quality, starting at the least with a 50% water change using a good
water conditioner. I'd also treat proactively with an anti-Finrot medication
such as Maracyn or eSHa 2000. These medications will roll back any
opportunistic bacterial infections that left untreated will blind your fish.
Melafix and salt are largely worthless for this type of thing, so don't be
conned into those! Cheers, Neale.>
Fish parasites
05/14/08
Hilo,
<Hiya, Darrel here tonight -- the REALLY cool kids are off exploring the Red Sea
and the inside of a number of sleazy dock-side bars and cantinas around the
world. Those of us THAT DIDN'T GET INVITED are here filling in. Bitter?
Me? No way!>
Situation: About 2 months ago I got 8 Cory cats into my new (3 months
established at that time) planted tank, didn't quarantine and learned my lesson!
<LIFE: LESSONS NOT INCLUDED!>
3 of the cories came down with ick and fungus, first I treated the planted tank
with ick medicine and fungus medicine for 3 days and that didn't work, so I
moved them to a 5 gallon treatment tank and only treated with increased temp to
82 C and salt for 1 week. They seemed ok after one week, so put the 3 cories
back and a few days later several of the other cories got sick..so moved those
ones to the medicine tank for same treatment but for 3 weeks. Moved them back
into main tank, seemed ok for a few days and again one of the other cories now
seems sick...they (3 different cories) are flashing very severely and one of
them has reddened gills, but I cannot see ick spots. They are all eating fine
and very active otherwise. I'm very frustrated at this musical chairs of some
cories getting sick and some not and this constant re-infection...
<Stop ........ I'm getting dizzy just reading about it>
So today I moved all 8 cories (even though some of them seemed fine) into the
quarantine tank and pretty sure I am just going to treat all of them for
parasites tomorrow. How long should I now quarantine I was thinking 2 weeks?
<think 6 weeks>
The only other inhabitants of the main tank are 7 tetras.
My question is: if I treat all my cories with Jungle parasite clear, should I
move the tetras into the medicine tank and treat them too? The tetras have
seemed fine from the beginning and have not come down with ick, fungus nor are
they flashing. Are they harboring anything that they might then cross transfer
to my cories when I return the cories? Is it possible for parasites to just
infect certain species (i.e. Cory specific parasites)?
<Fish can harbor parasites, for which they are not yet symptomatic, parasites
for which they are essentially immune yet are carriers ... the list goes on. Ick
treatments are noted to be toxic to Tetras. read here
www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebindex/ichfaqs.htm >
Does my main tank have the parasites in it?
<Absolutely! Ick needs a fish host in order to complete a life cycle. By leaving
the planted tank nice, planted and empty of fish during the time the Corys are
being treated and the Tetras isolated in yet another quarantine tank (MORE
LESSONS!) the ick will not find a fish host and it's life cycle will be
interrupted.>
How do I treat the thank then because I have a planted tank? (The first time I
tried treating the cories I put ick medicine and fungus medicine right in the
tank and it was a disaster..my plants practically died..)
Tank: 33gallon planted
peat filtered
Nitrates 5pmm
nitrites 0
ammonia 0
ph 6.8
soft
T 27
weekly water changes 20%
thanks very much for any advice, you guys are great..
<Well, yes and no, maybe we're not. There is information on this one web site
alone with more data, specifications, stories, anecdotes, warnings, tales,
cautions, articles, sidebars, FAQ's and FGA's JUST ABOUT QUARANTINE ALONE ......
that there is no reason whatsoever that we shouldn't have reached you and
convinced you ....but we didn't, did we? No matter how hard we try, we can't
teach "experience">
cheers
Terri
<On the bottom of this page, Google Search Bar click WetWebMedia and type "Cory
cat ick" and "tetra ick" and read, read, read!
Oh ... one last thing ... patience>
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