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FAQs on Anabantoids/Gouramis & Relatives Disease 4

Gourami Sudden Deaths 8/26/08
Hi & respect to the crew.
<And to you>
I am new to this site, but what a rich store of useful information, for which I have already found useful and informative.
<Ah, good>
I have an issue that occurred over the last two days, which I will try to describe in detail.
Sat pm: Gravel vacuuming & snail removal (mechanical, not chemical) 20% water change with DI water & re-mineralised/aquarium salts
Fish fed with frozen bloodworm/mysis/ tablet(defrosted 1st mind you in the aquarium water)
Same evening later, 2 hours after water change & feed, small male honey Gourami darts around the tank sinking to the bottom, then flicking up turning around on itself, darting around the tank, died within approx 5-10 min.s.
<Yikes!>
Non external injuries evident or attacking from other fish.
Same evening 1 after this event our male dwarf Gourami displayed exactly the same symptoms and also died.
We still have another honey (female that has not died)
We thought originally that may have been frozen fish feed had given them (has been kept and given to the fish over a period of 8-9months)
Mon am:
Replaced the filter floss, rinsed the foam in tank water, added additional beneficial bacteria
Mon pm:
bought another new male dwarf Gourami & another honey from the pet store- same happened, cant believe it, no frozen food given this time!!!
Treated the shop tank water in the bag with 1 drop of ESHa 2000 antibacterial/fungicidal treatment for plants and fish.
with the tanks lights off, netted the fish from the bag after stabilisation, into the tank, after 3-3/2 hours the same thing happened
All the other fish seem OK, the 3 Corys we have laid eggs recently in the tank and sometimes swim fast around the tank
I had also made changes to a CO system i built to benefit the plants and has been running OK for 9 months. This was originally a micro diffuser that allows the CO micro bubbles to enter the tank via yeast & sugar mixture in an fermentation tank, that has a one-way valve.
But recently I changed this, by removing the micro diffuser (got blocked), replaced with a small upside clear container that catches the CO bubbles within the container and which is dissolved gradually in the water. We were wonder if the fish swam to inside of the CO chamber and surfaced & breathed it, would this have caused the mentioned effects above, like suffocation, hope not.......
<Mmm, me too... seems unlikely>
Have filled the CO collection chamber with wool/floss to prevent fish swimming up inside the chamber.
I monitor the CO amount in the tank water via coloured changeable dye in a small capsule that allows for display of PH & CO.
<And this capsule-mixed water does not get into/with the fishes I take it>
It does seem to be affecting only the Gouramis, but the problem seemed to have started after the frozen food & water change/gravel clean.
My wife bought the new male dwarf & honey today and is very upset, cant think of anything else to add except if you have any further suggestions relating to similar issue, please, please help!!!!!
Parameters: (current)
Temp = 74-78
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 20-40ppm
<Mmm, a bit high... I'd keep under 20 ppm>
PH = 7.2
KH = 12-16
every 2 weeks R/O water change with remineral salts
<Is your tap/source/mains water "that" bad? I would just use it over RO and salts... What are the salts for?>
Tank stocked with live plants, mosses.
Fish:
Normans Lampeyes 3
Rummy nose tetra 6
Cherry Barbs 4
Corys 3
Pleco 1
Black Neons 7
Amano shrimp 1
Honey Gourami 1
Kind regards
M. Atkinson
<Mmm, from the excellent accounting of your system, its occupants above, I am at a loss to explain the curious twin deaths of the male Colisa chuna here... Perhaps this is/was a bizarre coincidence. Again, about the only two items that raise concern potentially are the high NO3 and your use of RO water and "salts". I would look into, correct these and go forward. Bob Fenner>

Re: Gourami Sudden Deaths 8/26/08
Hi Bob

Thanks for your initial & fast reply.
Just to answer the few points you've enquired of:
The CO capsule that monitors the PH & CO - No, the liquid is a mix of reagent & aquarium water that is kept within capsule and liquid does not enter the water.
<Ah good... some reagents are quite toxic>
The bottom of this capsule does have an opening, so it has to be placed in the tank about 10cm from the surface carefully, so there is a small risk of chemical leakage if the instructions are not followed.

And yes the mains tap water here in Hants UK is really nasty to fish untreated (heavy metals, nitrates chlorines, chloramines)
with RO water I can reduce phosphates, zero nitrates & so-on. (great for Algae problems)
The re-minineralisation salts is ("Tropic Marin" - adds the natural minerals & substances removed by the RO unit, & raises carbonate hardness)
<Ah, yes. Am familiar with this fine product>
The other is "Aqualibrium" physiological salt- Aquarium tonic, helps minimise stress on fish and can be used as a supportive measure for treating disease.
( I don't add this as well as the Tropic Marin would put the PH through the roof)
<Good>
Will also take your kind advice and Lower the NO3 to 20ppm or less with more frequent water changes but less amount of water, so as not to stress the fish.
<Also good... do see WWM re other means of controlling Nitrates>
Discussing what happened at the fish shop with my wife today, as I was elsewhere in another part of the shop while my wife asked the shop attendant to get our selections. She tells me, that the boy who caught the Gouramis for us was clumsy to say the least. It appears that when he netted the fish, instead of lowering the net into the bag to release the fish, he tapped the net from approx 10cm height to bag water surface, and when the fish didn't fall immediately from the net, he proceeded to nudge the side of the net with his fingers until the fish fell into bag....cowboys!!!!!
<Shall we name him Geo. Bush Jr. II?>
I guess that really didn't help the situation. In future we will request that another shop attendant serve us instead
<Yes, I would>
Today the other two Gouramis (1 x honey male, 1x Dwarf female - still seem OK as well as the other fish)
Will monitor and keep you informed
Regards
Mark
<Thank you for this further info. Mike. BobF>

Today I woke up and my pearl Gourami looked faded and his spots were slowing turning gray. – 07/21/08
My other Gourami has been looking a little gray also. Oh I almost forgot, their eyes are looking gray and bigger than usual. How can I prevent this from spreading to my other gouramis?
<Almost certainly the problem here is water quality. When multiple fish get sick from seemingly random symptoms (as these are) then the issue is environment, not a mystery disease that snuck in through the night. So whip out your nitrite test kit and establish whether there is any nitrite in the water (it should be zero). Also reflect on maintenance and the size of the tank. These fish need an at-least 20 gallon system, with a decent filter and water changes of 25% per week. Overfeeding is obviously a bad thing and makes a poorly maintained aquarium even worse, so stop feeding until you've established the nature of the problem. Send us some details of the aquarium, filter, water chemistry and water quality test kit results and we can try and help you further. In the meantime, your fish sound very sick and you will need to treat with some antibacterial or antibiotic such as eSHa 2000 or Maracyn (but not Melafix, tonic salt, etc.). Cheers, Neale.>

Fish inquiry... Tetra, small Characin sel., comp. 7/15/08
Dear Crew,
I'm pretty new to the fish keeping hobby but I have been researching online. Here is my dilemma. I have a tank with serpae tetras who keep to themselves (thank god), zebra danios, a rubber lip Pleco, and platys.
<A "courageous" combination to say the least. Serpae tetras aren't my recommendation for the community tank, as you seem to realise.>
I need a somewhat larger fish to be the so-called "attraction" fish but I don't know which kinds will live peacefully with my other fish.
<With Serpae tetras, not much! The obvious choices -- Angelfish, Gouramis, etc. -- will simply be pecked to death.>
I have a 26 gallon tank, its pretty tall and its a bowfront. I've been deciding between some kind(s) of gouramis, freshwater angels, or silver dollars.
<No, no and no respectively. The Gouramis and Angels will be nibbled to pieces, and the Silver Dollars get far too large for a tank this size.>
Which species is best suited for my tank and well get along with the tankmates; and if you have any other suggestions about other species please let me know.
<To be honest, I'd not bother. I'd either up the numbers of the species you already have, or perhaps add an interesting catfish of some sort that can keep out of trouble. Serpae tetras for example look their best in big swarms of dozens of specimens, when their feeding frenzy behaviour becomes quite something to watch. Of course any catfish that avoids trouble, like a Synodontis, isn't going to be showpiece fish you're after.>
Also, ever since I transferred a red wag platy over to the bigger tank, it has constantly been hiding even though none of the other fish harass it.
<Almost certainly it has been nipped by the Serpae tetras and is keeping a low profile. Serpae tetras don't just bite the fins from other fish but also the scales, and such damage can be difficult to see.>
Is there any way I can solve this problem?
<Not really, no.> Thank you, Pierre
<Hope this helps, Neale.>

Re: fish inquiry 7/15/08
Thank you for that info. Do you think there are any tetras that I could replace the Serpaes with that would get along with angels or gouramis? I might decide to take them back to the pet store.
Pierre
<Angelfish will simply view very small tetras, such as Neons, as food, so you have to be careful. Certain other tetras, can be just as nippy as Serpae tetras and will nibble on the Angels and Gouramis. Black Widows (Gymnocorymbus ternetzi) and some of the other Hyphessobrycon species fall into this category. My honest recommendation would be to replace the Serpae tetras with more Zebra Danios. Here's the thing: if you have one big school of a schooling fish, it looks so much better than two small schools of different schooling fish. You would then have one species at the top (the Danios), one in the middle (perhaps a pair of Angels or a pair of Lace Gouramis) and then your catfish at the bottom. Instead of a jumble, you'll have an nice ordered arrangement. Otherwise, consider X-Ray tetras (Pristella maxillaris), Diamond tetras (Moenkhausia pittieri), or Lemon tetras (Hyphessobrycon pulchripinnis) are excellent community tank tetras and the right size for your aquarium. But as I say, better to have twelve schooling fish of one type than six of two different types.
Cheers, Neale.>

Re: fish inquiry (Dwarf Gouramis, Angelfish, selection) 7/15/08
I'm going to exchange my Serpaes this evening. I think I will most likely go with the large school or danios and either dwarf gouramis or angelfish. I'll let my little brother pick. Thanks so much for all your help! Pierre
<My advise to anyone is don't get Dwarf Gouramis (Colisa lalia, including fancy forms like "neon gouramis", "robin gouramis", and so on). Unless wild-caught or locally bred, which the ones in shops most certainly are not, these fish are extremely likely to carry an incurable viral disease known as Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus. One estimate by vets puts the incidence at 22% for Dwarf Gouramis exported from Singapore. Because the virus is extremely contagious, you only need one infected fish in a batch to ensure all the others get sick too. The number of Dwarf Gourami e-mails we get would astonish you, and they really are a complete waste of money. Almost every retailer I know dislikes stocking them because so many die in their tanks, but there is sufficient demand among newbie aquarists who don't know better that they remain profitable. It's a shame, because twenty years ago they were quite good little fish. Nowadays, you're better off with the hardier (if slightly bigger) Colisa fasciata and Colisa labiosus.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/dwfgdis.htm
If you buy Angelfish, do remember these are territorial cichlids. You cannot sex them. But if you have two males, in a small aquarium they are very likely to become aggressive towards one another. If you buy a singleton, then there's an increased chance that Angelfish will "go rogue" and attack other fish in the tank, so that approach is not without risks. The standard way to keep Angels is to buy six specimens, let them pair off as they mature, and remove the four surplus fish when the time comes. Because Angels are such popular fish, rehoming adults is not difficult and any half-decent aquarium shop will take them off your hands. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: fish inquiry (Dwarf Gouramis, Angelfish, selection) 7/17/2008
Can the dwarf Gourami virus spread to other species of fish or only the ones in the Gourami family?
<This is a complex question. The short answer is yes, the virus can spread to other species in other families. But so far as I know, the only scientifically documented example is where Dwarf Gouramis Iridovirus appears to have infected Maccullochella peelii, and Australian perch-like fish belonging to the Percichthyidae family. There are no reports that I am aware of where the virus has caused problems in other species of Gourami though. Hence my recommendation that Colisa fasciata and Colisa labiosus are safe, reliable alternatives. Yes, they aren't quite as colourful, but they are still lovely fish and much, much more likely to live long and happy lives. If you want a small, non-aggressive Gourami for the community tank, these are the ones to go for. Cheers, Neale.>

Kissing Gourami skin problem 7/12/08
Hello,
<Henk>
I am currently looking after a small fishtank of a couple of friends who are on holiday.
There are two pink kissing Gouramis in the tank, both have been dyed with bright pink color stripes on their flanks.
<...>
Personally I would not buy such fish, and I talked about it to my friends afterwards, but many people who like to keep fish really think everything
you need to provide a fish with is water.
<Too often the case>
Anyways, one of the pink Gouramis had a superficial wound on its side with some skin hanging loose.
It looked to me as if it had run against the filter, gravel, or something else, which I would think possible since this fish is sometimes chased by the other Gourami.
The skin wound became bigger, so I took the fish out and put it in a separate tank and performed daily water changes (about 90% with water stored one day, since I have no filtration in this tank).
<Needs this>
The part of loose skin became bigger, and finally dropped off. Upon closer examination, dorsal fins and a small ridge of skin on the top of the other side are also affected.
<Yes... likely bacterial>
I have started medicating with an anti fungus product for already 5 days now (started medication about 2 days before the skin dropped off). The fish is not very active, but not lethargic either and occasionally eats, although less than normally.
The place where the skin dropped off is now pink/fleshy in color, but it does not look like all skin tissue (if you can call it like this, no idea) on the wound has disappeared.
I have a hard time verifying if the skin wound now is slowly increasing or has stopped increasing.
So what I would like to know, should I have been medicating with antibiotics instead, <Yes, I would... a Furan compound is my first choice, Furacyn if you can find it... 250 mg./10 gal... protocol posted on WWM, the search tool...>
or should I continue the anti fungus treatment, or is there any other treatment you can recommend? How long does it take to heal such problems, if it will heal at all that is.
Many thanks,
Henk Naert
OKAY Beijing
<And needs to be in a filtered system... Maybe a divider in the main tank... or even moving the healthy individual... Bob Fenner>

FW: sick fish...need advice 7/5/08
Hello,
Let me begin by saying that our fish tank and fish were given to us by someone who didn't want it anymore (something about their one year old, etc...). I am learning everyday! The folks who gave us our tank said it was about 1 year old (we have had it for a couple months) and came with two Gouramis. Based on my internet research one is a pearl and the other is a three spot (is that right?).
<Not sure that it is. The blue one is certainly Trichogaster trichopterus. The brownish one doesn't look like Trichogaster leeri to me (lacking, for example, the orange breast, frilly dorsal and anal fins, or orange pelvic fin "feelers"). I think it is either a plain vanilla wild-type Trichogaster trichopterus (rather than the yellow or blue varieties more commonly sold) or otherwise the snakeskin Gourami Trichogaster pectoralis. Trichogaster pectoralis isn't commonly traded because it is quite big (around 15-20 cm when fully grown in the wild) and not brightly coloured. On the other hand it is peaceful, hardy, and long-lived, so there's nothing actually wrong with it in terms of aquarium usefulness.>
There are also many tiny snails, three neon tetras, non-aquatic plants, a fake log to hide in, gravel on the bottom, an aqua tech filter (i replace charcoal cartridge every few weeks), the tank is 15 gallon (I believe).
<Ah, now this is one possible source of trouble. All Trichogaster species are comparatively big fish by aquarium standards, and need not less than 75 litres/20 gallons. Males of at least some species are apt to be aggressive as well, and a small aquarium will make this a real problem.>
We feed TetraMin tropical flakes twice a day (a pinch each feeding). All of this is what the first owner advised me. I have done some research on my own to try and help myself learn about being a fish owner! I am totally open to sound advice and it sounds like this is the place.
<Very good!>
So now that you have some background information let me begin. The Pearl Gourami (our 4 year old has named it Ashes) is not doing so well. After watching a great fireworks display we came home and I noticed that Ashes was doing some pretty weird back and forth movements. I came to find out (on your site) that this is referred to as "rocking". After the kids passed out I went in for a closer look and sure enough Ashes is looking a little strange. Seeing as I am a beginner, I panicked and Googled "Gourami illness" immediately. I am going to attach a picture which didn't come out so great, but maybe you can recognize the whitish (or lighter area) closer to the fishes back (upper area?). (Oh, and by the way I have no clue of the sex). The fish looks really patchy in the upper area, mostly behind the head. It's eyes also look really cloudy and maybe a little yellow. It's tail fin is also looking a little rough. Every once in a while Ashes will do a fancy little spin to the top for a gulp and then return to the lower third of the tank for some more "rocking".
<While there are a variety of things that might cause these symptoms, I'd put my money on a secondary bacterial infection. So you need to treat for Finrot. In the US, Maracyn is the antibiotic drug of choice, while here in England I recommend eSHa 2000, one of the more effective antibacterial medications. Regardless, avoid home-brew or essentially worthless treatments like aquarium salt and tea-tree oil (e.g., Melafix). Note that medications won't (usually) work in tanks where carbon is installed in the filter, so remove any of that stuff before use. Also read the instructions on the medication carefully, particularly with regard to dose, time between treatments, water changes. Do understand that a secondary bacterial infection is precisely what it sounds like -- an infection that *follows on* from something else. In this case, I suspect marginal water quality, and this has weakened the fish's immune system. Typically small, overstocked tanks maintained by less experienced fishkeepers quickly run into the problem of water quality. So, use your nitrite (or ammonia) test kit to test for nitrite (or ammonia).>
The other Gourami, "Dan", looks fine to my eyes. Dan does seem a little more freaked out than usual though. Every so often Dan will come out and chase Ashes, but then hide again. Oh, I also wanted to add that Ashes is usually very personable and will often come to the side of the tank when someone approaches. I did notice, however, that for the past few days Ashes has seemed a little out of sorts and likes to hide.
<Fish often become withdrawn when they are sick... just like us. Experienced aquarists use changes in behaviour as early warnings of fish health problems.>
I really hope that I have done a somewhat adequate job of providing information. I just want to help the little guy! If you could also suggest/recommend a good source of general freshwater system and fish care information either on the web or on paper, that would be greatly appreciated.
<We've got plenty of "starter" articles here at WWM:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsetupindex.htm
Do see in particular:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwset-up.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwfiltrmedart.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwlivestk.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/anabantoids.htm
There are many good aquarium books out there, but one I happen to like is 'A Practical Guide to Setting Up Your Tropical Freshwater Aquarium' by Gina Sandford, an attractive and inexpensive little book aimed very much at newbie aquarists looking after relatively small aquaria.>
Also, if you could recommend a good e-tailer, we live in a more remote area and the closest place to buy aquarium supplies is Wal-mart, enough said.
<Even Wal-Mart should have anti-Finrot remedy, but if not, most online fish retailers will sell you an appropriate drug such as Mardel Freshwater Maracyn. Even Amazon.com has this stuff!>
Thank you for your time, our family greatly appreciates it!
Shanah
<Good luck, Neale.>

Re: sick fish...need advice 7/5/08
Neale,
Thank you so much for your prompt reply.
<You are most welcome.>
Today I am going to attempt to purchase the Maracyn and start treatment. I do have one question: If I remove the charcoal filter during treatment, should I replace with a different type of filter for that time period? I just want to make sure that I do this properly.
<Personally, I don't bother with carbon/charcoal at all in standard freshwater aquaria. All carbon does is remove organic compounds that accumulate in the water over time. These are things that make "old" water in fish tanks yellow and potentially acidic. In the old days people avoided doing water changes, and so carbon was useful. But in the modern era of fishkeeping we under stand that water changes are good, so you can dilute any potential organic compounds in the water simply with a weekly water change of 25-50%. Cheaper and easier and better and safer than carbon! Problem solved. To actually work "as advertised", carbon needs to be replaced every 2-4 weeks, something hardly anyone with carbon in their filter actually does, underlining the pointlessness of the stuff. So remove the carbon, and replace with something that will support biological filtration, perhaps ceramic noodles or even filter wool.>
Also, in regards to your concern about the tank size, would you suggest removing the tetras?
<Neon tetras are ideal fish for a 15 gallon system, so the short answer is no. Moreover, compared with the Gouramis, their impact on water quality will be minimal.>
As of yet, none of the fish seem to be "cramped", but what do I know! I have never seen the Gouramis appear to be fighting, maybe playing from time to time.
<Fish will actually put up with a lot less than they actually need to thrive. Human beings can survive in prison cells eating nothing but porridge, but that isn't much of a life! The thing with fish tank size is this: the bigger the tank, the easier it is to maintain, and the less likely the fish are to get sick. Newcomers to the hobby often assume a small tank is easier to look after, perhaps for the same reasons that a small garden is easier to maintain or a small car easier to drive. But the analogy doesn't work, because the volume of the water is what moderates the poisons produced by the fish over time (the "sewage", if you like). The bigger the tank, the more the poisons are diluted, so the more time you and your filter have to keep things healthy. For newbie fishkeepers, a 20 gallon system is really the ideal starting point, and anything smaller just creating work for yourself. Even putting aside simple maintenance, fish that get to 10-20 cm, as your Gouramis will, just need more swimming space!>
Oh, and after I wrote my last message I was trying to do some more research and came across the snakeskin Gourami. Our fish looks a lot like this type. I would also like to thank you for pointing me in the right direction on finding some reading information. I have already started in on the links!
<All sounds like good news! Trichogaster pectoralis is a lovely aquarium fish, just a bit of a "Plain Jane" compared with some of the other species in the genus. You have probably come across it in another form though: it is, as I understand it, one of the key species used in Thai Fish Sauce, which you will certainly have consumed if you have ever eaten Thai Food. Mostly it is farmed in rice paddies for the table or for sauce making, but a few lucky ones get siphoned off into the aquarium trade, and yours is one of those that escaped the kitchen!>
Have a great day (or maybe night for you).
Shanah
<It's still day here! Cheers, Neale.>

Twitching Gourami - 7/1/08
Hi there. I have a question I hope you can help... FW change induces Gourami beh.
<Me too>
I've had my red dwarf for about 6 months, and have never had a problem with cleaning the tank, and changing out the water. Yesterday I had to break the tank down again,
and change everything due to having TONS of baby snails. Anyway, I changed his water, let it filter, and put him and his tank mates back into the tank. Well today I noticed that he twitches REALLY bad. Its really severe! I added "Aqua safe" to the tank thinking that would help... But, he is still twitching.. I don't know what to do for him. I don't have the heart to flush him! What should I do...
<Just wait here... likely something re the change has triggered this... may well subside with time>
I have another Gourami in another tank that I've had for 3 years, and his owner before me had him 4 years, I've never had this problem with him.. What have I done wrong??
<Not likely you so much as the "times"... water quality, sanitizer use changes...>
NOTE: He's in a 10 gal. tank with 1 Pleco and 1 HUGE apple snail.
Thank you for your time!
<Patience my friend. This fish has nothing that is "catching". Bob Fenner>

POSSIBLE DISEASED GOURAMIS, HLLE – 06/28/08
Hi Team,
I currently have a 35 gallon tropical tank, PH 7.2, Ammonia = 0, Nitrite = 0, Nitrates = 10-20. I have 2 Pearl Gouramis, 1 male and one female and both have small holes around the top half of their head around the eyes and 'nose'. They are not filled with puss etc. They are empty like bore holes.
<Sounds like Head & Lateral Line Erosion disease (HLLE), a syndrome that may, or may not, be related to the Hexamita parasite. I would treat for Hexamita anyway, and also review water chemistry/quality.>
The male is a much paler colour than normal.
<Again, consistent with HLLE/Hexamita.>
The female still looks a normal colour. The holes are only on the Gouramis. All other fish seem unaffected (1 queen arabesque Pleco, 1 Betta, 9 neon tetras, 1 swordtail).
<Hexamita/HLLE doesn't affect all fish species equally strongly. Cichlids are by far the most prone, but Gouramis can develop the symptoms too. I've never heard of Catfish, Livebearers or Characins developing the disease. This isn't to say they don't, but it isn't common.>
I feed them on Tetra Pro flake food/varied sinking pellets and a weekly treat of frozen daphnia or brine shrimp. I would guess that this is hole in the head disease from the info on your site but I change 10-20% water weekly and feed high quality and varied food so I am not sure how this would have happened as this often relates to poor water.
<Indeed this is the case. But the infection can be latent in store-bought fish, only to develop a few weeks or months after purchase. Inbreeding may weaken the immune system of some fish species. Nitrate is likely the triggering factor with cichlids, but 20 mg/l nitrate is "safe", so not really sure what's going on here. Regardless, treat first, worry about the science later.>
Is hole in the head disease infectious??
<Not really, no; Hexamita quite probably sits inside the guts of most fish harmlessly, and only causes problems when their immune systems are otherwise impaired. If it is in your system, then all fish have been exposed, so isolating any one fish won't make a huge difference. Since only certain fish develop the disease (or diseases) there isn't any need to worry about the catfish, tetras, or livebearers. By all means isolate the fish if it makes treatment easier/cheaper, but beyond that there's no overbearing reason to do so.>
Are my other fish likely to catch it from the Gouramis??
<Possibly the Betta.>
Are there any treatments available in the UK that you could recommend??
<Yes. eSHa make something specific for Hexamita/Discus Disease. Not used it myself, but I rate their other medications very highly.
http://www.eshalabs.com/hexamita.htm
>
Or is it maybe too late to save them??
<Fish can, do recover from Hexamita provided they are treated and properly fed/maintained.>
I would like to treat the entire tank anyway if poss. as a precaution.
Thanks
Brian
<Cheers, Neale.>

Does my Gourami have dropsy or are they ready to spawn? 6/25/08
About a month ago, I inherited a "free" fish tank for my daughter's birthday - 20 gal tank with 3 blue Gouramis- 1 male, 2 female, 1 Black Skirt Tetra, and 1 Pleco - all are about 3 yrs old.
<Hmm... at least some of these fish don't belong here. The Pleco can, will, get very big assuming it is one of the standard species. Expect 30+ cm, and obviously such a fish will be totally unsuitable for a tank this size. It will be a gross polluter, making the water filthy and this in turn will stress the fish and cause algae problems. So he needs to go. Black Skirt Tetras (Gymnocorymbus ternetzi) are nippy, schooling fish. Singletons may or may not be "happy", but they certainly have the potential to cause havoc. Gouramis would be prime targets for their fin-nipping habits, so keep an eye out. To round things off, male Blue Gouramis (Trichogaster Trichopsis) are notoriously aggressive once sexually mature. I personally don't rate the males at least as community fish, and certainly not in small tanks.>
This was the dirtiest fish tank I have ever seen. Plastic plants and rock cave were almost black. I threw them out. My mom used to breed angels and Discus, and we checked out every Freshwater fish and aquarium reference book from our library so I know just enough to be
dangerous.
<Ah, no. Even a little knowledge is better than ignorance.>
To transport the tank, we had to drop the water level to just a few inches. As soon as I got it home, I brought the water level up again with de-chlorinated water and changed the filter - it was completely clogged. Filter is just a Topfin 20. The gravel was too large and was completely green and full of waste. Looked like it hadn't been cleaned in 6 months. The water cleared up, but the tank was so filthy, I had to do a complete gravel change.
<Gravel changes are rarely essential, but harmless assuming the tank doesn't use an undergravel filter. Do bear in mind that the "dirtiness" of a tank is a biological thing. If the tank is inherently overstocked and under-filtered (as yours is) the dirtiness will be right back again within months, perhaps weeks.>
I put the fish in a 10 gallon holding tank with their "old" water, plus 80% water
change while I cleaned the 20 gallon tank. Also ran the original filter and air pump. Fish seemed OK. Set up new tank with live plants and new gravel and allowed to cycle for 2 days. Tested water at LFS and all levels were good, except that ammonia was present - harmful, but not dangerous.
<According to whom? All ammonia is dangerous. If you can detect it, you have a problem. My guess here is too many fish, coupled with the fact that lots of big fish = lots of food, so the filter can't cope either way. For a 20 gallon tank, I'd honestly take in everything you have and trade them in for something reasonable. Perhaps some nice small livebearers, such as Platies, plus a group (4+) of Corydoras catfish. I find a combination of understocking, healthy plants, snails and shrimps beats the algae problem, and makes for a very low maintenance, easy-on-the-eye aquarium.>
I put the fish in anyway, as they had been in the dirty water long enough! Within hours of being in the new tank with plants, their color stared to come back. In a few days they started being more active. The male Gourami is now very aggressive and very territorial.
<And so it begins... This species isn't my favourite by any means.>
About a week ago, I noticed the water temp went from its normal 78F to almost 84F. The heater was broken, so I removed it altogether - home temp is usually around 76-78 anyway. Now - in the last week, one of the females seems to have dropsy, but I am not sure. The male's color
has really deepened in the past week as well. He is dark blue and he is displaying his fins a lot. I not sure if he is preparing to spawn, because the bubbler moves the surface enough that he has a hard time making a real nest. I did change their diet from just flakes, to
include dried bloodworms as well. One of the females seems to be very pale to me, the other has the bloat around the pectoral fin section that I see in many pictures on your website. She seems to hang by herself more, and hides from the male by the filter intake. He is
pretty aggressive with the other two Gouramis, but especially the swollen one. He nudges, more than nips. My camera doesn't do a very good job, but I grabbed these photos from the web and she looks just like this.
<<Stolen images not posted. RMF>>
<It's certainly possible they are preparing to spawn. It's difficult to know, but if you see the male make his nest and then the female spend time with him nearby, the chances are that they are "in the mood for love". But do remember than male Gouramis (of whatever species) rear the fry alone -- they will drive away, even kill, the female after spawning because as far as he is concerned, she's a potential predator. Fine in the wild where the female goes off anyway, but in the confines of an aquarium, potentially chaotic.>
Oh - Water tests have been good - all acceptable levels - Since the new arrivals in our home, I think I have been to the fish shops at least every other day picking up supplies, etc. They have been kind enough to test our water each time and I think we're in good shape there.

I do not have a quarantine tank, in case she does have dropsy - I moved my Betta from his half gallon plastic "tank" to the 10 gallon tank.
<For which your Betta is I'm surely eternally grateful! Do consider expanding that tank a bit, by trying out low-light plant species, shrimps, Nerite snails, maybe even some dwarf catfish such as Corydoras hastatus.>
What now? I don't want to medicate if it isn't necessary, but how do i know for sure? And what if they do spawn, can I safely put the females with the Betta in the 10 gallon tank to separate them from the male?
<In theory, yes, but bizarrely enough the male Betta might get a bit threatening. Conversely, some otherwise community-safe fish nip the fins of Bettas just because they can.>
What do I do with the other 2 fish - the Tetra and Pleco?
<Trade 'em in.>
If all is well, I would like to upgrade the filter to an Eheim ECCO and change the Pleco for a less "productive" algae-eater - any suggestions? - and perhaps add a few Danios or Long-finned Rosy Barbs.
<The Eheim filter is excellent, though price-wise the 'Classic' line is better value in terms of turnover (litres/hour) versus cost. The big thing with the ECCO range is that they're easy to set-up and use. That's a decision only you can make, knowing your own budget. Either way, Eheim filters are superb. As for algae-eaters, none of the fish sold as such are any good, at least by themselves. Unless you have reasonably good plant growth, algae is going to be a problem either way, and adding extra fish just means there's more nitrate in the water, and so the algae can grow faster. In a balanced aquarium, I find that a combination of Nerite snails and algae-eating shrimps (such as Cherry Shrimps) makes a FAR BETTER job of controlling algae than any fish I've kept. And I say this as someone who's kept fish for 25 years and tried out just about every type algae-eating fish there is.>
The tank is planted enough that they will have refuge from the Gouramis. Would this be a good combination?
<Rosy Barbs are subtropical fish, and don't really belong in this aquarium. Moreover at up to 12 cm long in aquaria, they would need a tank twice the size as yours to have anything like the swimming space they need. Danios are variable, and some prefer relatively cool water (22-25C) compared with "true" tropical fish, so research the species available in your area carefully. They need lots of space, at least a tank 60 cm in length.>
Also - how about Blue Emperor Tetras or Gold Danios with the Betta - (Aqua Clear filter)
<No, don't mix these with Bettas; Bettas are too easily nipped. Instead go for shrimps and/or inoffensive bottom feeders like dwarf Corydoras.>
Love, love love your forum. Thanks so much.
Sandy
<Cheers, Neale.>

Follow up -with new problem... Re: Does my Gourami have dropsy or are they ready to spawn? 6/27/08
<RMF in for Neale...>
So we traded for credit - the Pleco, the skirted Tetra, and 1 Gourami yesterday - which we thought was a female, but was in fact the second male Gourami - hence all the extra aggression from the alpha male Gourami, which we kept with the suspected gravid female (My daughter couldn't bear the thought of missing the egg drama - so I decided to wait and see how the pair does) they immediately seemed calmer - Last night I noticed what I thought was a little bit of pink on the right fin joint of the male Gourami - and decided to watch and wait.
<Good>
This morning, his whole fin on that side is decidedly pink-red - I'm not sure if this is an injury from swimming between the rear glass and the filter intake - which he does a lot - or if it is an infection, or an infection caused by a injury?
<Likely the latter>
I am going to the LFS today and will pick up some Melafix,
<Mmm, I would not>
in case you advise me to use it, but will wait to hear back from you.
<See WWM re>
Also - the male seems off today - even more than just calm since we go rid of the other fish - even his color seems off all of a sudden.
They are hanging together a lot- seem to be "cuddling" and swimming .
I also notice him near the top of the tank in "his corner" a lot, and she rests at the bottom of the tank among the plants. I am very suspicious that she actually has Dropsy and he has some other kind of infection.

My plan is to wait and see if any spawning happens, and then to trade them in, so my daughter can have her egg-sperience. If they are sick, then I will have to treat them as well and then go from there.
Took your advice about the shrimp and snail. We already had a Yellow Apple/Mystery Snail and we're looking for a Cherry Shrimp or two - no one has them in Orlando - so we'll wait. Also looking for a Zebra Nerite Snail - any ideas where to get them?
<Just to call about the local fish stores... They may be able/willing to order for you>
What do you think about the Gouramis? Should I treat with salt bath, or Melafix?
<Mmm, if anything the salt>
I am also doing a water change later this evening.
<Good>
Thanks again,
Sandy
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

2nd follow up Re: Follow up -with new problem...Re: Does my Gourami have dropsy or are they ready to spawn?
Follow up to follow up - – 06/28/08
Today after last night's 40% water change with 1 tsp aquarium salt/ gallon in the new water, he is more himself again and fin seems improved.
<Ah, good>
It is not quite as red, and he seems much more mobile.
He's swimming around quite normally and she is doing the same.
Noticed same fin irritation starting on hers - and just like his - only on the right fin. But hers is just beginning like his was 2 nights ago. Will continue to watch and wait. Nothing happening as far as nesting, but I guess he's not feeling 100% with the fin. I moved some plants around to discourage them from swimming behind the filter intake.
I am amazed at how much calmer they both are without the extra company in the tank. Would you advise adding some Stress coat to the water,
or just leave well enough alone for now?
<The last>
Thanks again.
Sandy
<Welcome, BobF>

Blue Gouramis Issues... Colisa lalia, GSP... 05/23/08
Hello,
<Hi there>
I have a 35 gallon tank. I have a kissing Gouramis about 5 years old and a blue Gouramis the same age. They were the only fish in my tank for about 1 1/2 years until recently I decided to add a dwarf Gouramis,
<Disease problems...>
Pleco, green spotted puffer,
<Incompatible... a brackish species... and nipper>
and some ghost shrimp for the puffer to eat about 2 months ago. Starting approximately 4 days ago, I noticed my blue Gouramis swimming in a back and forth motion into the wall of air bubbles for hours at a time. When he's not doing that he is swimming frantically around the tank. Today when I came home I noticed all his fins were rust colored as well as the entire lower portion of his body. He does discontinue his crazy behavior to eat but then continues shortly after. He has hardly any interaction with the other fish (at least that I have seen). He used to play or maybe fight, I'm not sure, with the kissing Gouramis for many years but now shows no interest at all. I purchased the new fish thinking the two of them were board being alone and could use some new friends. I hate to see my little blue - really big blue- friend so unhappy. I've tried researching his behavior and color change on my own but can't find any answers. I would greatly appreciate you help.
Thank you kindly,
Little Blue's Mom
<... the Trichogaster may have "caught something" from the Colisa lalia... Please read re them on WWM... and the GSP... You have induced troubles. Bob Fenner>

General questions about Gourami 4/19/08
Hello!
I came across your website today while I was looking for information about Gouramis. I'm quite new to fish ownership, so please excuse any stupid questions I might pose. I started off with a small tank, only 20L (which I believe is only about a really tiny 5 gallons...)
<Way too small for practically any tropical fish. Almost any problems you have will come down to the tank, so your NUMBER-1 priority is replacing this with a system at least 20 gallons in size. Ten gallon and smaller tanks simply aren't easy for inexperienced aquarists to maintain or stock properly.>
I have a Silvertip Tetra, 2 Corys and a 'Gold' Three-Spot Gourami.
<All completely non-viable in here. While I'm happy to help explain any specific problems, none of these fish will last long (or be happy!) in here for any length of time. So "fixing" the problems is a waste of your time (and likely their lives). The Silvertip tetra MUST be kept in a group of six or more specimens and easily needs a "long" 20 gallon (in metric terms, that's something like a 75 gallon tank not less than 60 cm in length). The Corydoras need something similar, and should certainly be kept in groups of 4-6 specimens, minimum. Three-spot Gouramis are BIG fish when mature, around 10-15 cm, and even a 20 gallon tank is too small for a territorial male. When mature, males of this species are incredibly aggressive and disruptive.>
P.H. level is 7.0 and has never gone more than 0.2 up or down.
<Still WAY more pH change than happens in an aquarium properly set up; small tanks are intrinsically unstable, and this is one aspect of the problem. Instability = dead fish.>
There's only one plant as previous ones were eaten...
<No, not eaten. They died, and then decayed. Tanks as small as the one you have almost never come with strong enough lights for plants to grow. Furthermore, inexperienced aquarists are often sold non-aquatic plants, often under such names as "umbrella ferns" and "dragon plants" and the like. As with fish, you need to research plants *before* purchase, otherwise you WILL be sold junk. An informed shopper is a successful shopper.>
I have yet to pick up an ammonia kit, and should be getting one tomorrow.
Last week one Cory cat died, so I wanted to ask about that as well. It just became quite listless, and would often 'fall over' onto its side. It showed no signs of disease, and I did see it eat, though perhaps not as much as it used to.
<Likely chronically bad water quality, insufficient water movement, inadequate oxygenation. Or multiple causes. Anyway, no surprises here.>
The other fish seem fine though, which brings me to my actual question.
Near its tail, my Gourami seems to have some kind of 'bubble' in its body. Like a clear lump that looks like a bubble...I was just wondering whether it's something to worry about,
<Yes... likely an incipient bacterial infection of some kind.>
or whether I just haven't noticed that part of its anatomy. It's quite young, I believe, only 6cm long (not even 3 inches), if that's any help.
<Still needs treating with a reliable antibacterial/antibiotic (NOT Melafix/Pimafix).>
I do water changes every week, and I always remove uneaten food.
Thanks,
Kit.
<Water changes every week don't even begin to come close to solving the problems you have here. If you're one of the people who gets offended by me saying "everything you're doing is wrong" I apologise for hurting your feelings in advance. But yes, you are doing everything wrong, and the chances of success are virtually nil. None of these fish will be happy in this system, even if by some miracle they survive. They MUST HAVE a 20 gallon/75 litre aquarium to be even close to happy and healthy. Your move. Cheers, Neale.>

Sick Gouramis... Pleco comp. – 03/07/08
Hello, all.
I've read a great portion of your website, mainly the Q&A section. I have searched in great lengths for problems similar to mine, but to no avail. However, I have gathered a great deal of knowledge about the hobby in general.
<Very good; but please don't think that replaces buying a book! Before you buy a fish, buy a book -- there is so much to learn!>
Apologies in advance, this will most likely be fairly long. Also, I am at great risk of sounding like some kind of *emo freak* as I never imagined I would actually get so attached to fish.

Here goes:
My hobby started with a Christmas gift. A 5 gal tank with built-in filter & light, hex shaped.
<5-gallon tanks are known in the trade as "buckets". They're of no good for keeping fish, and certainly not by beginners.>
Being ambitious and completely ignorant, I filled the tank and promptly added WAY too many fish. 2 Dwarf Gouramis, which died within days of what I have read to be Dwarf Gourami disease (brought on by ammonia poisoning, no doubt) and 5 (yes, ridiculously, 5) Paradise Fish - Blue variety.
<Oops.>
I did a very limited amount of research and learned that for the fish I currently had still living, I needed at least 20gal.
<Not a chance. Paradisefish are mutually aggressive, and males are very much "one to a tank". They will also fight with other similar looking fish, including, I dare say, Gouramis. Paradisefish are not community fish and are never, ever recommended for beginners by sensible aquarists.>
After several fights with the hubby, he finally bought me a 29gal. I filled it, moved the fish in, and started reading about the cycling process. This is when I started to feel like a serial killer. I read that Paradise fish are actually very forgiving in regards to water quality, and if you are going to be cruel enough to cycle with fish, they are ones to use.
<Up to a point this is true, but even hardy fish can be killed by high levels of ammonia and nitrite. That's why you need to have your nitrite and ammonia test kits, and as soon as you detect more than 0.5 mg/l of either, you do a BIG (i.e., 50%) water change. This may well be as often as once a day for the first couple of weeks!>
So, I did frequent small water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrites down, and eventually, the tank cycled. It has been steadily 0 ammonia & nitrites, and low nitrates (10 or less) for at least a month now. All my fish actually did great. I got a black Sailfin Pleco for the algae problem. I read up on them, and saw that they will "suck" on sick or slow fish, but mine seem to be active and very quick.
<The Sailfin Plec is likely Pterygoplichthys pardalis or similar. These are HUGE fish and require tanks 55 gallons upwards. Completely unsuitable for this system. In any case, they have no positive impact on algae. Think about it for just one second: algae grows when the water has fertiliser added, i.e., nitrogenous wastes from the fish. Add more fish, the water is more fertile, and the algae grows faster. Add a huge catfish, and even though it's eating algae, it is also eating catfish pellets and vegetables, so will be making the water much more fertile. It's a case of one step forwards and seventeen steps backwards. There are only TWO ways to control algae: use lots of fast-growing plants, or use elbow grease and a scraper. There is nothing else. Nada. Nix. Nyet. Non. Nein.>
Then... got up one morning, and one of my females looked like she was missing scales. She was still acting normally, so I added some Melafix, as it supposed to help with missing scales and Finrot.
<I'm not impressed with Melafix. Because it's cheap and "New Age" people buy into it, but it isn't any more effective than any other cheap, New Age medication.>
It only got worse from there. When I got home that evening, it was an open (almost looked to bleeding) wound. I searched the internet, and closest thing I could find was AEROMONAS (hole in the side disease).
<Hole-in-the-Head is not caused by Aeromonas bacteria. These are different syndromes. Almost certainly you're dealing with a plain vanilla Aeromonas infection, what on a human would be considered sepsis. The skin is damaged, and otherwise harmless Aeromonas bacteria get into the wound and cause serious problems. Long term: death through blood poisoning. Use something like Maracyn or eSHa 2000 to treat.>
It seems, though, that this is more commonly associated with wild or farm fish.
<No, the problem here is more than likely physical injury and/or poor water quality. I hear what you say about the good water quality stats, but the overwhelming experience of most newbie aquarists is variable to poor water quality, e.g., by overfeeding, under-filtering, or overstocking. So take a conservative approach, and assume the worst case scenario.>
I moved her to the 5gal (now hospital tank, also cycled) and tried feeding her anti-bacterial food (soaked and broken up first). She wouldn't touch it, and developed dropsy that night. She was dead the next morning.

Next was one of the males. I tried parasite treatment on him. Dropsy, and died within a day.
<When masses of fish die for seemingly random reasons, the problem is 99.99999% likely water quality, water chemistry, or poisons. So: check water quality, and do a 50% water change daily until thing settle down. As for water chemistry, check the pH isn't fluctuating wildly. Fish are somewhat tolerant of the "wrong" pH and hardness relative to what they prefer, but what they can't abide is changing water chemistry. Finally, consider poisons. Things like paint fumes can quickly kill fish. Small children are apt to dump things in fish tanks, so it's important to make sure that doesn't happen.>
Now my second female has a hole on either side of her body, well behind her gills, mid-body. Also - a large hole, as if something is eating away at her, on her anal fin. it is near her tail. She is now in the hospital tank, and I ordered Maracyn Two, which is on the third day of treatment, and no change, only getting worse.
<Stop moving the fish to the 5 gallon tank. Pointless. Such a tank is a death trap itself. Treat the whole tank with Maracyn. Be aggressive with water changes (big, often). Study water chemistry and quality closely. Above all: DO NOT FEED the fish.>
One of the males left in the main tank now has a hole in his side, and the other has a hole in his anal fin, in the same exact location as the female. I have tried to take photos, and they just WILL NOT hold still long enough.
If they won't eat the anti-bacterial food, and the Maracyn doesn't help, then I am at a loss. The girl in the hospital tank is developing fungus, and I don't want to treat for the fungus while still using the Maracyn, in case there would be a reaction.
I am afraid that they are developing secondary problems due to all the HORRIBLE water conditions I subjected them to. If this is the case, do they stand a chance at all?
<If you do precisely what I say, yes, some should recover, assuming any Finrot (for that's the issue) is limited to superficial tissues. But if the body cavity is infected, then realistically, no, the fish aren't likely to survive.>
Just a mention - the sick female (now in hospital tank) was being harassed by the Pleco. He would attach to her, and she would shake him off, but he probably did the most harm while I was sleeping and could not monitor. Is it possible this is what is happening to the other? I can't imagine the Pleco would decide to attach to the anal fin, though??
<Obviously this Plec needs to go back to the pet store. This is non-negotiable. How, why it is sucking onto the fish is largely academic (though I imagine it is hungry because you are not providing the foods it needs).>
OK, I drew a rough image with Paint, which looks like a child created (hence the file name "kindergarten fish") showing the same location all fish are developing the hole in their sides and fins.
<Yikes!>
I never dreamed I would feel so bad over fish, but they are part of family now, and I really don't want to lose them. What can I possibly do??
<Read, learn, understand.>
Thank you much,
Jiffy
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Gourami/Paradisefish problems – 03/07/08
Thank you, Neale, for your speedy response.
<You're welcome.>
It seems my worst fears are realized and I have done unrepairable damage to most of my fishy friends. :(
<Quite possibly.>
Emo = emotional basket case, which is what my hubby and most my friends think of me when I go on and on about saving my fish.

As of tonight, the 5-day Maracyn treatment will be completed in the 5 gal, and the girl is not doing any better. The reason I have been moving them is because the other fish seem to realize who is weak and pick on them.
<Oh dear.>
Since the treatment did not work on her, I will treat the remaining 2 (sadly, both males - maybe I need a tank separator) in the large tank.
<Does sound a short term solution, at least.>
The Pleco was purchased with the understanding that it would eventually be returned, upon aggression or growing to large for the tank, so he can easily be returned to the pet store. Once he cleaned the tank, I started feeding the sinking algae disks when I turned off the lights, and witnessed him eating voraciously. I have read that they attack sickly fish, and suspect this is the case here.
<Loricariid catfish are classic opportunists (like humans) and they will have a go at whatever seems edible. That's their ecological niche. While they rarely, if ever, cause problems in tanks with healthy fish... in tanks where fish are dropping like flies, I dare say even the best behaved Plec isn't above taking advantage of the situation.>
How long should I not feed? A couple days? the duration of the Maracyn treatment?
<The latter at minimum. Fish can last a week without food, and after that week, feed small amounts once per day. No more.>
Finally, what book(s) would you suggest? I will gladly purchase and read anything that will help me to better care for my fish.
<Many, many choices. Go visit your local bookstore, and have a browse. Look for something published reasonably recently so that it is up to date in of filters, medications, etc. Don't be dazzled with pretty pictures -- some aquarium books that are "coffee table" type books look lovely to look at, but thin on information. Pick something that clearly explains about filters, water chemistry, disease and so on. If it has a section on community fish, listing their water chemistry needs, preferred temperature, social behaviour and diet then so much the better. You can use that to decide what fish you want to get next. But right now your need isn't for a book containing hundreds of fish or advanced topics like plants or cichlids; you want something focusing on the foundations of the hobby. Master them, and the rest of the hobby is pretty straightforward.>
Thank you so much for your expertise,
Jiffy
<Cheers, Neale.>

Gourami cannot swim... new-tank syndrome? 03/04/2008
I have a 20 gallon tank with 3 hatchet fish, 3 ghost catfish, 3 neon tetras, and 1 Gourami. The tank is only about 2 weeks old.
<Yikes! I hope it is cycled... Do you know what this means?>
Two days ago I noticed that the Gourami was lying on the bottom of the tank, but then he returned to acting normal. The next morning he could not swim right, his head always seems to be above his body, like its lighter than the rest of him. Later that day he could not eat and he was doing spastic back flips and spiraling with no coordination. He looks completely healthy. He seems to be going downhill. Any suggestions that you have will be well appreciated.
<... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwestcycling.htm
and the linked files above. You don't offer sufficient info. for a useful response... I suspect this environment is not ready for fish life period. Bob Fenner>

My Kissing Gourami is losing weight 03/04/2008
Hi, My pink kissing Gourami is loosing weight quickly. I have a 20 gallon aquarium with two kissing Gouramis (6 months), two gold Gouramis (3 months), one fire Gourami (3 months), a leopard bush fish (5 days), and a Chinese algae eater (three months) (Gyrinocheilus aymonieri). Everyone is under 2 inches except the algae eater he is about 2 1/2 inches. About a week ago I noticed one of my kissing Gouramis was loosing weight and yesterday I realized he was really skinny. Every so often he will go to the back corner of the aquarium and sit on the bottom. His eating habits haven't changed and I know that he eats well because he eats on a separate side of the tank than the other fish. He is not being picked on, and other than sitting on the bottom at times he's not lethargic. I have a 20 gallon Penguin 100 Bio-Wheel Power Filter, two 20 gallon AquaClear submersible heaters (it gets cold in my house and one was having trouble keeping up), and two aerators. It is pretty well planted with a big rock that has caves in it where the fire Gourami and bush fish like to hang out. I use API aquarium salt (1 tablespoon per 5
gallons), and one a week I use API Stress Coat and API Stress Zyme. My ammonia is 0, my nitrate is 0, my nitrite is 0, and my pH varies between 7 and 7.6. I clean my aquarium every other week and change 25% of the water using only distilled water. I alternate my feeding between TetraMin Tropical Flakes and frozen blood worms. I have had trouble with dwarf Gouramis in the past, but this seems to be a good group that gets along well with one another. I really love my aquarium and my fish and if I'm doing something well I want to know so I can fix it. Thank you for any help you can give me. Sorry if it's way to much information. Ryan
<Hello Ryan. First let's be clear that your tank is overstocked with the wrong species. Gyrinocheilus aymonieri gets to about 25 cm and is a completely psychotic, non-community fish once mature. If there is a fish I would BAN from the trade, this would be it! Responsible for more terrified community fish than anything else I can think of. A nasty, nasty fish. The Pink Kissing Gourami Helostoma temminckii is another big fish, potentially reaching 30 cm, though 15-20 cm is more typical in captivity. While a tolerable community fish in jumbo systems, it simply isn't viable in a 20-gallon tank. It needs a tank something like 4 times bigger. Secondly, Helostoma temminckii is a very difficult fish to maintain in aquaria; it is at least partially a plankton feeder, and it needs to be fed a lot of food, more or less all the time. In big tanks this isn't so much a problem because there's enough filter capacity to compensate for that, as well as algae-covered surfaces for grazing. But in small tanks if you provide the fish enough food, you'll likely find water quality plummet. When kept in mixed communities they also tend to lose out at feeding time because they can't wolf down food as fast as the other fish. Seriously, they need to be getting 3-4 meals per day, and those meals need to be good quality algae-based flake foods. There must also be constant supply of green foods, such as blanched curly lettuce (not iceberg!) or Sushi Nori; tinned peas may be take, too. While it is possible your fish has some other "wasting disease", my gut feeling is that it is simply starving to death. You seem to be suggesting one specimen is fine but the other one is thin; because males are bullies, it is possible that the weaker fish doesn't get access to food as often as it needs. One last thing: why are you using distilled water in the aquarium? STOP! This is very bad for your fish. Just use plain vanilla tap water (not water from a domestic water softener) with suitable dechlorinator. There is no need to add salt. Cheers, Neale.>

One skinny Gourami, one bloated Gourami 3/3/08
Hello All!
I'll try to be as concise as possible, I have a 40 gallon freshwater aquarium. The occupants are 4 adult platies, about 6 juvenile platies, 1 Opaline Gourami (the other is in sick bay), a Pleco and a Chinese algae eater (it was originally in a 10 gallon, but I knew it needed more room so I moved him to the larger tank). All water conditions are optimal, I do 25% water changes for 3 weekends , then a 50% on the fourth.
I purchased these 2 Gouramis about 6 weeks ago, put them in the quarantine tank, and well, the bigger one started attacking the smaller one non-stop. Wouldn't let it eat, etc...(turns out they are both males) After a week of this I put the larger one in the 40 gallon. (I know, a little too soon) I feed them flake food most of the time, but every 3-4 days I give them blood worms and brine shrimp. I also add algae disks for the algae eaters, which the other fish eat on, too.
Last week I noticed both Gouramis had long stringy feces (no color to it, just transparent looking), so long it would get caught on their feelers. Now the larger of the two is bloated, but the smaller one looks normal (I've managed to get him to eat some Tetracycline), but still no visible bowel movement. The larger isn't eating at all, but is still bloated, and I haven't seen any bowel movements from him in about 3 days, either.
My question is: Is he just bloated/constipated, this all seemed to happen after the last time I gave them the blood worms and brine shrimp. Or is it more likely a bacterial infection? I've looked up Hexamita, and that is another place where I'm finding some confusion. Some sites list it as an intestinal bacterial infection with the symptoms I've listed above, but other sites call it "Hole in the Head" disease??? He doesn't have any holes in his head or body. He's just "stuffed" looking. No fins or scales are protruding, so I'm sure it isn't Dropsy. And all the other fish seem healthy. Oh, and as far as getting him to try a sweet pea, or eating medicine, he is having NO part of eating anything! (Just an extra note, he seems to be doing a lot more surface breathing than the smaller one.)
Thanks so so much, I LOVE YOUR SITE!
Nicki
<Hello Nicki. First things first: when you say "Opaline Gourami" you mean Trichogaster trichopterus rather than the small Gouramis (often called Dwarf Gouramis) Colisa lalia? I only ask because the latter are notoriously prone to a viral diseases called Dwarf Gourami Disease that is incurable. The symptoms are very consistent: lethargy, loss of colour/appetite, sores on the body, swelling, then death. While it is possible that other Gouramis might contract this disease, particularly Colisa hybrids, I have not yet heard of Trichogaster spp. coming down with it. Now, I will say a few things about food: Freeze-dried foods do tend to cause constipation in some fish, particularly if used overly often. Live foods can be a potential source of infections. So while both these food items are popular with aquarists, they are not without risks. Moderate feedings of dried foods (including flake) with generous use of wet-frozen or fresh foods seems, to me, to be the ideal. In any case, if constipation is the problem (and it may well be) then use an approach similar to that outlined here for Goldfish:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshmalnut.htm
You may need to focus on daphnia rather than vegetables as laxative foods, but tinned peas may be eaten. As for Hexamita or Hole-in-the-Head -- these are arguably the same disease, manifested in different ways. External infections cause pitting in the surface of the fish, usually around the lateral line, while internal infections cause wasting. Anyway, treatment is very difficult, though there are Hexamita-specific medications such as ESHa Hexamita Treatment (both forms), Metronidazole (for internal infections) and Quinine Sulfate (external infections). Treatment almost always depends on the fish being dealt with promptly; once established this infection is very difficult to cure. Hope this helps, Neale.>

Re: One skinny Gourami, one bloated Gourami 3/6/08
Thank you Neale! Yes, they aren't the Dwarf ones, they are a hybrid of the 3 spotted blue Gouramis.
<Okely dokely.>
So, an update: I managed to get the one in quarantine to eat the Tetracycline for 3 days as directed, and he finally had a real fish poop, no longer stringy and transparent. And he appears to be back to his old self again.
<Sounds positive.>
The other isn't eating anything! But now, I can see it is Dropsy, his scales are just now starting to stand out. I still can't get him to eat the Tetracycline. So I'm going to check out your site for more info, and make a trip to the Pet store for something that can be added to the water (I switched him into Quarantine, and the other is in the big tank now.)
<Start here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/dropsyfaqs.htm
Though realistically, getting small fish back from Dropsy infections is very difficult. By the time you see the fluid build-up, the damage has largely been done. I'd tend towards painlessly destroying this fish now.>
I really do appreciate your site, it has been such a blessing!
<Thanks!>
I'll keep you undated!
Nicki
<Good luck! Neale.>

Re: One skinny Gourami, one bloated Gourami
Hi Neale, I wanted to let you know that he did pass the following day. It was pretty sad, I was watching him and suddenly his swimming became "bobble" like, then he was on his side, just like that. I'm happy to say that the other is back to full health, and enjoying a life in the larger tank. :) I think the fact that he'd eat the medicine is the sole reason he made it.
<Ah, too bad. Well, glad the other fish is feeling better. Good luck! Neale.>

Dwarf Gourami Disease 2/25/08
Hello again!
<Ave,>
Okay, I read up on the links, and now I am worried for the rest of my Gouramis (dwarf and regular).
<It's only Colisa lalia and Colisa hybrids you need to worry about; other Colisa and all Trichogaster seem resistant or immune to the Dwarf Gourami Disease pathogen.>
If I remove the sick fish, are the rest of them going to catch it?
<See above.>
I just did a water test: my nitrates are about 30ppm (I am due for a water change), nitrites are 0ppm, the water is testing at 150 (hard), 120
alkalinity and pH at 7.2 (neutral). Should I be adjusting anything?
<Nope.>
if Yes, how do you advise as the best way?
<Broad advice for water chemistry is this: if you don't know how/why to adjust the water chemistry, you probably shouldn't do it. It is easier to mess things up completely. In fact, your water chemistry is just about perfect for a broad range of community fish.>
Sorry to keep asking, I do appreciate the assistance!
Cheryl
<Happy to help, Neale.>

Blue Gourami with black head -- is he sick? -02/20/08
I have a blue Gourami that is at least 3 or 4 years old -- he's (I call him a he but have no idea if he is a he or she)
<Males have long, pointed dorsal fins.>
in a 10 gallon tank along with 2 goldfish, 2 neon tetras, and 1 sucker fish. Has been in the same tank with these fish for about 2-1/2 to 3 years. No problems so far.
<All this in a 10 gallon tank? Madness. The sucker fish is either a Pterygoplichthys catfish (average size 30-45 cm at maturity) or Gyrinocheilus aymonieri (only slightly smaller but infamous for its aggression). The Goldfish need a tank at least three times this size all by themselves. Oh, and Neons are schooling fish, and are only happy when kept in schools of six or more. While you might not have had problems yet, that's rather akin to a guy not killing himself at the first round of Russian Roulette and so declaring the game "safe".>
We were away on vacation for the past 3 days and when we returned home last night, we noticed his head has turned black or maybe a really dark blue. It covers his entire head back to his first set of fins on either side. He is swimming around just fine and he is eating just fine -- not acting like there is a problem. The only thing that we did differently when we were away was that we: 1) fed them all using a 3-day tablet feed;
<No need to feed fish for a 3-day vacation; in fact it is safer not to.>
and 2) turned the heater on in the tank since we'd be away and the house would be slightly colder so the tank temperature was about 2 degrees F higher than normal.
<How warm is this aquarium otherwise? How do you keep tropical fish in an aquarium without a heater? Unless your home is constantly at around 25C/77F day in, day out then these fish are not at all being kept correctly. Seriously: are you winding me up? Big fish in a tiny, unheated tank!! This sounds like someone trying to wind me up... everything is wronger than the wrongest thing that anyone has ever gotten wrong.>
All the other fish are fine and he seems fine, I just do not know what this
color is. Should I be concerned?
<Very, very, concerned, though not specifically for the Gourami. Without a photo, can't say what's going on. Could be viral or even nerve damage (which affects the chromatophores) but this fish sometimes change colours thanks to genetic abnormalities.>
If so, what should I be doing?
<Buying a bigger tank and leaving the heater on all year around would be a start.>
Thanks ahead of time for your help, Pam
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Blue Gourami with black head -- is he sick? 2/21/08
Thanks for your comments -- I get the suggestion about the size of the tank and about not feeding them when only away for 3 days. Will do.
<Very good.>
I need to explain about the heater being off/on. The tank is located near a heated radiator (yes, I live in a home that is 80 plus years old and is heated with radiators, not vents or baseboard heating) and it is located near a window that has sunlight coming in most of the daytime. So, the heater is not always on because the temperature spikes so severely in the winter daytime when it is sunny. I've tried different heater types so that I do not have this problem and it's the same. Moving the tank is not an option -- no other location for it. When we go away, however, the heater is always on. This was the case this past weekend when we were away.
<OK. So long as the tank doesn't go above 30C at its hottest or below 20C at its coolest, you're fine. But I would try placing aluminum foil (for example) behind the tank to reflect away some of the sunlight. If pasted behind the aquarium backdrop you won't see the foil. Placing a fan above the tank in summer, to increase evaporation, will also help cool things down. Regardless, putting tanks on windowsills above radiators isn't considered best practise!>
Back to the Gourami-- here are a few shots that I took just now. I have inserted them into this email and am attaching them as well. I hope you can get an idea of what I mean by his head being black or dark blue with these. They are the best I could get with a not so great camera -- sorry if they are not so great.
<Odd, but I don't think dangerous.><<Is not... just neurological impairment. RMF>>999
Any ideas on what this is?
<No idea.>
Thanks for your help. Pam
<The fish is a male, by the way. Cheers, Neale.>

Interesting comment on Gourami... Darkening beh. 2/26/08
Hi there!
<Kerstin>
I wanted to respond to an email sent in the other day, where Pam had a Gourami that turned partially black. Your comments were: Neale - Odd, but I don't think dangerous; Bob - Is not... just neurological impairment.
<Please do>
I wanted to write to you because I have seen this as well. Two years ago I purchased a Blue Gourami and several Guppies for my son's class aquarium. About one month after this purchase, another mom also donated some fish. We never figured out the exact type of fish, but we know that one of them was extremely aggressive, to the point that every other fish in the tank lived in a 2x2xtank-height column of the tank. By the time I saw this, the front half of the Gourami had turned black, so I asked another teacher (who had several guppy tanks) if she would take the fish, which she happily did.
When I saw Pam's query, I asked the teacher if she still had the Gourami, and if he ever turned all blue again. Her response was:
"Yes, all the time! I put him in my turtle tank because he tended to be aggressive with any other fish. Any time that I add water, clean or feed, the fish darkens. His whole body turns black – not just his head. Once I get away from the tank, he starts to lighten up. He pretty much goes back to gray/white in about 30 minutes...
No response is necessary - I just thought it was interesting that someone else wrote about this situation as well.
Thanks for your great website that lets us learn about cool things like this,
Kerstin
<Thank you for sharing. Such darkening can be temporary or not... depending on cause... Bob Fenner>

Golden Gouramis, hlth. 1/27/08
Hi there!
We have a new 72 gallon tank. Set it up, left it for a week, tested the water, and all seems perfect (nitrates, ammonia etc come up as ideal on the test strips) except it may be just a bit alkaline. Bought our first fish 3 golden gouramis, 5 rosy tetras and 3 long fin serpae tetras.
<Serpae tetras -- Hyphessobrycon serpae, plus related species in the genus -- are notorious fin-nippers. You can probably already see their raggedy fins. Anyway, they're not compatible with Gouramis. Unless you want gouramis with nibbled fins, Finrot and Fungus. Please please please research fish before buying them. Lots of so-called "community fish" aren't.>
Also moved a rather large (6") Pleco from a previous tank. All seemed well until yesterday, when one of the gouramis colours seemed to start fading and the bottom edges of his bottom fins appear orangish.
<Which "bottom fins"? If the pelvic fins (the "feelers") those can change colour according to sex. Certainly that's the case with Trichogaster microlepis. Not sure about Trichogaster trichopterus though. If the anal fin (the unpaired long fin between the "feelers" and the tail fin) then I'd suspect Finrot. The bacteria start by forming clots in the blood vessels, and these turn pink. Eventually the surrounding tissue dies, and the fins rot away from the trailing edge inwards. Treat at once, and remove the Serpae tetras, since they're as likely as anything to start Finrot in gouramis. Finrot is normally caused either by physical damage (e.g., nipping) or poor water quality, so do also check the nitrite just to be sure.>
Today, he didn't eat, even though he was at the surface of the tank, and then he went and hid at the bottom of the tank. The other two gouramis seem normal and are eating and I haven't seen any sign of aggressive behaviour. I have no idea if these gouramis are male or female or how to tell the difference.
<Male Trichogaster trichopterus have much longer dorsal fins; the female's dorsal fin is about half the size, if that.>
One other thing, the faded Gourami seems to be trailing a thin white poop. don't know if this means anything.
<Can mean a variety of things. It isn't normal, but it isn't necessarily a disaster either. A more varied, high-fibre diet is probably the thing you need to do here.>
Also wanted to ask about the Pleco. He has always been somewhat reclusive, but now that he is in the big tank, he has retreated into a hollow tower (I can see his fins, and they do move) and hasn't come out in about 3 days. Should I be worried about him, or is this normal?
<Put some cucumber or courgette in the tank tonight. If it's been eaten by the morning, then all is well. If it's still there, then you may have a problem.>
I am still feeding him with Spirulina tabs.
Looking forward to your reply,
Cheryl
<Hope this helps, Neale.>

Gourami, Trichogaster, dis., reading 12/10/07
Hello,
<Hi there>
I have a blue Gourami that has a slightly swollen mouth and is unable to eat. This fish was a particularly aggressive fish in our 30 gallon tank and ate very well at feeding times. Because of his aggressiveness I purchased a 10 gallon tank to put him in. I let it cycle for one week
<Mmm, not long enough>
and went out of town for Thanksgiving. When I returned, my mother had put the fish in the 10 gallon tank because she was concerned that he was becoming overly aggressive with the other fish. ( I have since made my mother understand that she is NOT to handle the care of my fish...lol!)
<Mmm, better, in my estimation, to engage your mother in this hobby interest... inform, educate her, enlist her help/association>
My tank has perfect PH and all of the levels are fine.
<What does this mean?>
He has plenty of oxygen from a bubbler, great filtration with carbon and a heater set to 80 degrees and tank salt.
<Don't need, "like" salt/s>
I noticed his mouth a little swollen about 3 weeks ago and he gradually stopped eating. His mouth barely opens enough to get oxygen and he certainly can not open it enough to inhale his food. He actively seeks out food but can not eat. He pushes his lips out so far that I'm able to see the muscles that attach his lips to his face. There are no other changes to the fish that I can notice. His color is fine. I have noticed that he hides a lot from me but I attribute that to his being sick. He is currently living with 4 cherry barbs and they all seem to be fine. No aggressiveness, and the barbs eat just fine. None of his symptoms started until I introduced the barbs to his tank. Should I take the barbs out?
<No... I would leave all in>
I did a 20 percent water change about a week ago and for 4 days now I've been treating the tank with Pimafix.
<Worthless>
Per suggestion from Petco. It's an antifungal all natural remedy.
<Is a fake... a tea... if you get sick...>
It's not working. Now my fish have Ich.
<... likely bought on by stress... the "Fix"...>
I've treated the tank once yesterday for ich but now I'm worried that I have too much medication in the tank.
<....>
I hate that my baby is not eating and per suggestion of another fish store they suggested that I euthanize him by putting him a baggie of water and putting him in the freezer....YIKES!!!
Any suggestions?
Thank you kindly.
Regards,
Dolly Ruiz
<Yes. For you to read re treating ich... and the diseases of this Gourami... Here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gourdisfaq4.htm
and here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Millions of questions.. of course. Gourami hlth., Betta comp. – 12/6/07
Hey there,
I currently have a 10gal tank with 2 three spot gouramis, 1 African frog, 1 CAE and 3 male guppies. I have a couple rocks and plants as you can see. It's set at a constant 78F and when I tested my water at the pet store, everything looked good. My tank has gone through hell to get to this fairly stable state, and there are two original survivors: a fat and happy CAE who didn't seem to be affected and a poor three spot Gourami who has been left slightly mangled. She broke out with terrible Ich and her eyes swollen up on multiple occasions. The rest of them I added a few weeks ago.
One Gourami is about 4 inches and a pig and the other (survivor) is about 2 inches and doesn't seem to eat anything anymore.
<Might be consequent from the ich treatment/disease, or perhaps its also being bullied by the larger conspecific>
My survivor used to eat at the algae wafers I'd put in for my CAE, but now it doesn't look like she eats anything. She's gotten thinner and I'm wondering if she's gone blind because of the eye swelling and just can't see the food?
<Maybe>
She sits at the top of the tank during feeding and just gulps at air.
I'll crush up flakes and put them near her mouth but she only spits them out. Do you think she's blind and if so, can I do anything to help her?
<Mmm, if you have another smaller tank, or even a breeding net, or large hand net this fish can be kept in... it may be able to find food easier...>
I thought the larger Gourami might be a good companion since it seemed so calm when I saved it, but it's gone crazy since being moved and is terrorizing all the fish.
<This is bad... I would remove, trade in this bully>
I bet has even hit the tank cover a few times the way she darts around. It was living with the frog and a Betta (in water that smelled like gasoline) in a half-filled 10gal tank. Could it be the fact that it has room and clean water now?
<Mmm, no>
I know I'll need a bigger tank soon, but do you think it will calm down over time or does she just need a new home?
<This behavior is generally persistent with Trichogaster, most gouramis... Once a bully, they keep bullying. I would trade it in>
My last question is about a Betta that I got about a month ago. It was in a tank with what I think was a ton of tin-foil barbs?

and was fine around all of them. I took him home, kept him in a Betta tank for a few days and then tried to introduce him to the community tank. Of all my fish I thought he'd attack the guppies, but they were so busy darting about that he got bored with them. Upon finding my tiny Gourami he flared and started circling her.
<Yes... the Betta considers the similar-looking Gourami as a competitor>
I didn't want to stress the poor girl out since she's gone through enough so I immediately took him out. I realize that flaring is normal with Bettas in new community tanks like this but will it eventually calm down or will I just have to see?

Do you think he's spent too much time out of a community tank, so that he won't behave in one anymore?
<Likely would be fine in a calm, uncrowded community setting... w/o other like-appearing tankmates>
Thanks for your time. Sorry it's so long.
Elizabeth
<No worries. Bob Fenner>

Gourami with worms– 09/17/07
Good afternoon. Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I have found much information on my problem but I'm still not sure exactly which action to take. I have a planted 75 gallon FW tank. About 2 months ago I had a rainbowfish that had a swim bladder problem that turned out to be a very bad case of worms. It happened right after I got back from a long weekend to find out that my fish sitter didn't notice the filter had stopped running. I was unable to save him using Prazipro. I was concerned that the entire tank might have a problem but didn't want to overreact so I did not treat the tank.
<Ah, your first mistake: you MUST treat the tank wherever communicable diseases are suspected. Used properly, medications pose no risk to your fish, filter, or plants.>
Fast forward to last week and I had a breeder net in to try and save some Cory cat eggs. They didn't hatch but I did see worms on the netting after about 3 days.
<Those wouldn't be intestinal worms. If anything, they're more likely to be planarians (flatworms). These are harmless as far as your fish go, being free-living scavengers, but they will eat eggs and to a lesser extent very small fry. Many ways to remove them, but the easiest is simply to keep some sort of fish that eats them, such as gouramis or Paradisefish.>
I did a 25 gallon water change and treated the tank with Prazipro. Within 24 hours one of my gouramis had stringy white feces and stopped eating. The next morning his belly was a little swollen. I was hoping that he would be able to pass what I'm guessing must be worms.
<Perhaps.>
It has been 5 days now and he is in no better shape. He is not eating and I have not seen him pass anything since that first day. His belly is now very swollen this morning.
<Because you've delayed treatment, the worms have become a worse problem. There's nothing you can really do except treat the tank and hope for the best. That said, worms by themselves don't normally cause dramatically rapid loss of health. Usually what you see is gradual emaciation of the body while the body cavity itself (sometimes) swells up abnormally. Bacterial infections are much more rapid, and tend not to be associated with gradual emaciation (though they can be) but more normally things like loss of colour, lethargic behaviour, loss of appetite, odd social behaviour, and so on.>
I'm not sure that Epsom salt would work because from what I've read I think it must be a bacterial infection.
<Likely won't make any difference. Epsom Salt is a muscle relaxant, and helps fix constipation, when coupled with extra fibre in the diet. It isn't a miracle cure.>
The rest of the fish seem to have no issues from the treatment. Could you please tell me what direction I should take?
<Re-dose the tank with anti-worming medication if you're sure its worms. Otherwise, assume its an internal bacterial infection, and use an antibiotic or antibacterial.>
Other than taking care of him, is there anything else I should do to the tank? Should I remove the old plants or gravel? Should I treat with a second round of Prazipro for good measure?
<Do a big water change to flush out any remaining medication, and then repeat the Prazipro or add the antibiotic/antibacterial as you decide is required. Unless stated to be safe, don't use two medications at the same time. As ever, remove carbon from the filter if you're using it.>
Thank you for your time,
Carol
<Hope this helps, Neale>

Re: Gourami with worms– 09/17/07
Neale,
Thank you so much for the quick response. I truly don't know what to believe his problem is. Because he started passing the white stringy feces and started to swell after using the Prazipro should I assume it is worms?
<Hmm... stringy faeces usually indicate bacterial or more often protozoan parasites. Hexamita is the classic example. Prazipro will do little/nothing to help here, since it's an anti-helminth drug. Erythromycin is a good starting place for internal bacteria, but Hexamita and other protozoans will need other drugs, like Metronidazole. I think I'd tend to try the Metronidazole first, and see what happens. My gut feeling is this is a protozoan infection, but obviously without seeing the fish, I can't be sure. Worms, you see, are relatively uncommon in aquarium fish because they have complex life cycles that cannot usually complete in an aquarium or fish farm. By contrast protozoan gut parasites are quite common, and though usually harmless, under certain conditions become a problem.>
I'm just not sure. What do you think is more likely due to the timing, worms or internal infection? If you believe it is an infection should I hospitalize and treat with Furan-2 or something else?
<Unless you're treating for physical damage such that the fish needs to be isolated so it can rest or feed, it's usually a good idea to treat the fish AND the aquarium. For one thing, many fish get stressed when they're moved about, especially schooling fish. Also, it's likely anything that infected one fish has infected the others, even if it isn't currently doing any harm.>
Thank you again for your time,
Carol
<Good luck, Neale>

Re: Gourami with worms– 09/17/07
Neale,
Thank you yet again for the quick response. I'm curious, is it possible that my rainbowfish had a parasite and not worms? They came out of him everywhere (from under his scales & he vomited them for lack of a better term) when I started treatment with Prazipro. They looked like very short tan worms.
They moved around quite a bit once out of the fish until they died. Bob Fenner had me treat him with Metronidazole first and it did not help him. So he had me try the Prazipro and that's when they started coming out of him.
<Does indeed sound like worms of some sort.>
For my current treatment the bottle suggests raising the temperature to 85 - 90 degrees for Cichlids and Discus. Should I do the same?
<Yes, worth a shot, but raise the temperature a degree at a time per day, and don't go above 85 until you're sure everything is happy. Boost the aeration a bit, too.>
Also, are there certain fish that can't have the Metronidazole? I also have frogs in this tank.
<Don't know the answer to this. Should be fine, but keep an eye open for any odd behaviour and act accordingly.>
Thanks,
Carol
<Good luck, Neale>

Sick Gourami with red blotches. 9/2/07
Fist thank you for any help that you may give!
I have read all four pages on "FAQs on Anabantoids/Gouramis & Relatives Disease". I have found a couple of entries that "may" be what I am going through but none seem to fit perfectly. This fish has had these red blotches for about a month now but was otherwise acting perfectly normal.
Now she seems to be "ill". She is hanging out in the upper corner of the tank constantly. She is not eating as she used to. She seems to be breathing fast and the blotches which started as one on the side and have progressively multiplied and now she even has one around the bottom of her mouth. The blotches don't appear to be under the scales like they originally did but now kind of a crusty like surface appearance. We do 30% water changes and vacuum the gravel every three weeks and add 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons of aquarium salt after the water change. We feed mainly dry tropical fish food and about once a week we give frozen blood worms.
I have considered an isolation tank and medication but honestly I don't know what this is so I really can't treat it. I read on here before when the marks were under the scales that this was something that happened and it would get better but it doesn't seem to be getting better.
Here are the tank specs.
30 Gallons
Couple of live plants
Carbon and natural media filtration
1 Gourami
1 Pleco
2 yoyo loaches
3 gold barbs
2 Black ruby barbs
3 Rosy barbs
1 Rainbow shark.
Thanks again for any assistance that you may be able to provide.
Jeremy
<Hi Jeremy, your blue gourami appears to have septicaemia of some sort. Even if its something else, at this stage in the game, it's likely to be untreatable. If it's a bacterial infection, you could try some industrial-strength antibiotic, such as Erythromycin, but obviously if its a viral infection, that won't help. As always, take water quality as the most likely "cause" of the problem, and review the pH, hardness, nitrite, and ammonia levels in your aquarium, and then act accordingly. An adult Plec, for example, will be heavily loading the average 55 gallon tank, let alone a 30 gallon one. Salt won't make a blind bit of difference and I have no idea why you're adding salt routinely to a community of freshwater fish. Not a one of those species wants salt, and most don't like it. You need to do 50% water changes weekly, not 30% three-weekly. Cleaning the gravel isn't something you should need to do that often (your plants would prefer you didn't). Instead, just "vacuum" up the detritus with the hose pipe as you siphon out the water. One last thing: do remember carbon removes medications from tanks. Unless you know (and understand) a reason to use carbon, in a freshwater tank it's largely a waste of space and money. Remove, and replace the space with something that will actually do something useful, perhaps more filter wool or ceramic media. Hope this helps, Neale>

Is there hope for my Gourami 8/15/07
Help! First I have a 30 gallon tank and all the reading are where they are suppose to be. I have 3 angels and Gourami in this tank. I don't know if this has anything to do with it but 7 weeks ago I gave my fish some frozen blood worms, within a week my Gourami started to twist out of shape.
<I... see this>
I went to a local mom and pop fish store and they weren't exactly sure what was wrong and gave me some cure all capsules.
<Were there but such things>
The Gourami started to straighten back out during the treatment. About a week later he started twisting again.
I went to a different pet store where the people were a little more knowledgeable about fish (or so I thought). When I told him about the Gourami becoming disfigured he said that I should put it out of its misery.
I bought instead some antibiotic for the tank thinking this might help. It did but as soon as treatment ended he started to twist again. Help! I don't know what to do. He is still eating and swimming but I feel so bad for it.
He is getting skinnier also and staying towards the top of the tank. None of the other fish are having symptoms. Can he be saved? Do you know what is wrong with him?
<There are a few known "causes" of such spinal curvature... all are incurable at present as far as I'm aware... I would sacrifice (euthanize) this one animal (please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/euthanasiafaqs.htm) and take care to wash your hands... as Mycobacteria may be involved here. Bob Fenner>

Gourami disease? 8/1/07
To Whom It May Concern:
<That would be me.>
I have a 20-gallon tank with one angel fish, one opal Gourami, and what I think was called a tropical Gourami.
<No idea what a "tropical Gourami" is because they're all from the tropics! But my guess would be some variety of dwarf Gourami, Colisa lalia or else a corruption of the name Trichogaster trichopterus, the common three-spot Gourami usually sold in its yellow or blue varieties. The Opaline Gourami is also Trichogaster trichopterus.>
My angel fish and tropical Gourami are thriving, growing, and seem to be just fine. My opal, however, has been covered in what I can only describe to be an ever-increasing patch of fur for the past several weeks.
<Fungus, Finrot, or "mouth fungus" (the latter neither a fungus nor confined to the mouth). Treat quickly, ideally with a combined anti-fungus/anti-Finrot medication.>
I've treated the tank with anti-fungal, and after making two trips to the local fish store have come up empty-handed with ideas as to what this could possibly be (the local fish experts had no idea - they just kept giving me things to try).
<Supplement the treatment of the tank with saltwater dips. Take some sea salt or some other non iodised cooking salt, add 35 grammes to 1 litre of aquarium water, and stir well. When dissolved, dip the fish into the salt water for anything from 1 minute to 10 minutes, depending on the size of the fish. The idea is to dehydrate the external pathogens and cleanse the skin (it's basically the same thing as doing a salt water gargle to heal a mouth ulcer, for example).>
The opal is tiny in comparison to its tankmates (despite being brought into the tank at the same time), the pH/nitrate/nitrite levels in my tank are testing fine, and I add salt with every water change, as well as water balancing solution, and this little one gets worse (again, despite the other fish growing beautifully).
<Please stop adding salt to the tank. It isn't required and it isn't helping. Freshwater fish don't need salt in their water (if they did, they'd be saltwater fish!). Now, what do you mean by "fine" when it comes to water quality and chemistry? Specifically, your fish need a pH between 6.5-7.5; 0 nitrite and ammonia; and less than 50 mg/l nitrate. When fish get symptoms of the sort you describe, it usually comes about one of two ways: poor water quality or as a result of physical damage. So, check off water quality first. Are the nitrite and ammonia values zero? Do you change 50% of the water each week? Do you add dechlorinator each time? As for physical damage, either the fish are fighting or you're handling the fish badly, e.g., when netting it. Fighting among Trichogaster trichopterus is very common: the males are EXTREMELY aggressive, and will attack most other gouramis, not just their own species.>
The opal eats little, sucks air from the surface occasionally, and has lost all of its color except for red near the tail (which is covered in the "fur"). The "fur" looks almost like spores of some sort, however it doesn't match the descriptions for ich (which I've treated anyway with the anti-fungal), wiggly-worms, or any other pictures I've found so far on the
internet.
<Well, can't be certain without a photo, but highly likely one of the three diseases mentioned earlier. Dwarf gouramis (Colisa lalia) also suffer from 'Dwarf Gourami Disease' which is a bacterial or viral problem (possibly both) and is incurable. Trichogaster trichopterus doesn't tend to get this disease, so we can probably cross that one off, but you might want to check out these two different species and see if you (your fish shop) have identified them correctly.>
This brave little guy keeps fighting, and he moves quick when he needs to, but mostly he's just lethargic and hangs out well out of the way of the bigger two fish, either near the top or on the bottom of the tank.
<Doesn't sound all that promising, I admit.>
Any suggestions?
Thank you!
Amanda
<Hope this helps, Neale>

3 spot Gourami w/ pop-eye; not enough useful information, poor grammar, etc... 7/28/07
Hi crew
<Hello there, Jorie here today.>
i

...was looking at my fish today and I

saw my 3 spot Gourami as
<with?>
...pop eye with blood at the bottom of the eye.
is
<Is>
...there anything I

...can do?
What is happening none of my other fish are all fine

<OK, first off, when you write us, please take a few additional moments to use proper grammar, capitalization, sentence case, etc. Since your query was so short, I fixed it to make it readable (we do publish our responses to queries on the Daily FAQs site - see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/daily_faqs3.htm and in order to make the Q&As understandable to all, we do request that our writers comply with these requests: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/faqstips.htm
More to the point, now: I need a lot more information to be able to help you here. Facts like how large your tank is, how long it has been setup, what type of filtration is used, what livestock you have, water temperature, pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings, water change schedule, etc. are all necessary information. Generally speaking, what I can tell you is that pop eye is caused by poor water quality, so do check your water parameters with a quality liquid reagent test kit. I suggest isolating the sick fish into its own hospital tank (filtered and cycled; as to the latter, use water from the main tank so as not to shock the ill fish's system) and treating with Epsom salt (1 tsp. per 5 gallons of H20) and pristine water conditions. I'm betting your tank has a harmful, if not lethal buildup of toxins which are causing your problems. The Gourami may just be the first fish to exhibit symptoms, but if the water quality's poor, the others will soon follow suit...
I can give you better/more specific suggestions if you give me the information I've requested above...
Best regards,
Jorie>
thankyou
<Thank you!>

Re: 3-spot Gourami w/ pop-eye; still not much useful info...recommend reading, increasing water changes - 08/05/07
Hi Jorie
<Hi again; sorry for the delay in responding, I've been traveling around a bit and haven't had much time to check in here...>
Ok, my tank is 5ft by 4ft
<In order to calculate the volume, I need the depth measurement as well; it does sound like this is a good sized aquarium, though.>
...and it has been set up for 4yrs now.
<Great.>
I have never had this problem before.
<Sometimes issues are cumulative...>
I have one catfish, 4 barbs and the others are all types of tetras.
<It would be helpful to know the species of each here.>
And I have fresh weeds in the tank
<Again, species?>
The water gets changed every 3 months
<Ideally, once a tank has established its nitrogen cycle, you should be performing a 10-20% water change every week or two (this depends on how heavily stocked the tank is, how good the filtration is, how messy the species of fish you have are, etc.; without more information, it's impossible for me to make a more specific recommendation.)>
...and the temperature is 82
<A bit high, but so long as it is stable, should be OK.>
...the pH and ammonia are good
<Useless info. I can't tell you what's an ideal pH for your tank, as I don't know really what you are keeping. As for ammonia, it should be at zero, as should nitrite levels.>
...nitrate is a bit low; could this be the problem and if so how do I change it?
<I think you are confused. As far as nitrates go, the lower the bet