Sick kissing Gourami
>Hi Bob,
>>A minion by the name of Marina here.
>I have a 3-4 inch kissing Gourami that is several years old. Last week he had a circular area on his side that was whitish in color. I changed 20% of the water and kept an eye on it.
>>Do a larger water change.  You've mentioned nothing about using carbon, filtration, or water parameters, so I'll assume that you know to remove carbon when medicating, and that you also know that some meds can "knock out" a good portion of your benthic bacterial colonies.  This is another good reason to do larger water changes (50% identical, fresh water will help greatly).
>This week it seems to have spread to the back 1/2 of his body on one side. He also has 1-2 raised bumps on his other side, about 2mm x4mm in size. He is eating and still "kissing" the other Gourami. He seems sluggish though and generally not too good. Two days ago I started a treatment of Maracyn II. So far this does not seem to be helping.
>>We're really shooting in the dark, especially because I'm going by your description with no photos, and my book of fish diseases is in storage (curses!).  Do both a Google and Dogpile search, as you'll be in a better position to determine what best matches your fish's symptoms.  I would also, after doing that large water change, switch to Melafix, another broad spectrum antibiotic.  If you do NOT have live plants in the tank, I would add 1 teaspoon of salt (Kosher or marine salt mix) per gallon of tank water.  This will boost the effects of the antibiotic, as well as relieve a bit of the pressure on the fish's system (osmotic differences between fishy flesh and water).  Also, please delve into our library here--> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwinfectdisfaqs.htm
>This fish has had previous bacterial infections that responded quickly to Maracyn II. What do you think?  Jeff Hulett Hawkeye
>>I would try the other broad spectrum antibiotic along with the salt.  This is assuming that it's not a fungal infection (the Methylene blue would help address that), though I'm really not sure that's a possibility by your description.  Keep up the water changes, if he takes any fresh foods do try to stimulate feeding this way (bloodworms, daphnia, mosquito larvae, et al).  At this point it may be far too stressful for him to undergo a saltwater dip, so I don't recommend it.  Let's keep our fingers crossed!  Marina

Re: sick kissing Gourami
>Thanks Marina,
I will do a larger water change and try to send you a photo. I do have live plants in the tank. I did do a search, but didn't turn up anything.
>>Then you won't be able to use the salt.  I did more searching, and the best I can find online is that it must be an infection, but at this point I can't even narrow down whether it's bacterial, fungal, or viral.  If you can set up a hospital tank for this fish, I would advise it.  This way you can help him with salt.  If you believe that it would cause really undue stress on the fish, then don't move him.  Other than that, my only other suggestions are to try different broad spectrums.  Here's a link to fish meds, uses, dosing, etc. --> http://www.petswarehouse.com/Fishmed3.htm
and here--> http://www.petswarehouse.com/Fishmed2.htm
>>Good luck, and keep us posted.  Marina

Re: sick kissing Gourami
>Thank you Marina,
>>You're welcome.
>I spent some time looking at the fish with a magnifying glass and I noticed some white tuft stuff on one of the site. It was very small. After seeing that, I treated the tank with Rid Ich+, which is mostly Malachite Green. I also removed a smaller kissing Gourami from the tank to reduce stress on the sick one. I did this because, even though he was sick, he still "kissed" the other one, and frequently chased it around the tank. I also added a  tablespoon or so of salt. I did this last Thursday or Friday. Since then I've kept up the treatments once per day for both the Maracyn II and the Malachite Green.
The fish improved dramatically with this treatment.
>>FANTASTIC!  Boy, that is great news.
>After one day the 2x4mm spot had shrunk 50% and the tufts were gone. His motion seems better and he seems to be getting better every day. Since he really didn't respond to the Maracyn II, I can only guess that this must have been fungal.
>>Me too.  Again, let the happiness ensue!  You've found the trouble, and are treating with good success.  I have achieved my (the whole crew's, actually) goal.
>I plan to discontinue you Maracyn II today and keep up the M. Green until he seems healed.
>>Sounds like a good plan.
>By the looks of his progress, this should only take a few more days.
>>Could it get any better?
>After that I'll reinsert the carbon in the filter.  I've included photos of the fish in its original sick state. You can see the
discoloration on the back half of his body. This spread from the original circular site which was about 8 mm wide.  Thank you very much for your help with this.
>>This is great, except that I can't seem to view the .jpg.  Bob?  Jason?  Zo?  Someone with more puter knowledge than me?  Well, the point is that the fish is on his way back to good health.  I'm very pleased with the news.  Marina

Eat, Don't Kiss!
Hello to all at WWM,
<Hello! Ryan here>
I bought 2 pink kissing Gourami's 4 days ago and have them in QT by themselves but they are not eating.  I've tried reading over all the faq and am still at a loss.  They are in an established tank and all my water parameters check out okay.  I haven't noticed any white spots or any other obvious signs of illness only that they hang out on the bottom of the back of the tank.  I've tried offering frozen blood worms and brine shrimp.  Also I got some zooplankton all to no avail.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
<Amy, are there adequate hiding places for them to feel safe?  I like to keep a piece of PVC or some fake plants in my QT to reduce stress.  Was the brine you offered live?  If not, try that.  Brine shrimp are a poor substitute for real food, but seem to get almost any fish eating.  Small live worms may do the trick as well.  These fish are generally very hardy with an appetite to match-could you contact the LFS which sold you the fish and find out what they were eating previously?  Good luck!>
Thank You,
Amy

Pink kisser diet and general tank stuff.
First things first, I don't have a digi. cam, so I'll describe Ivan's itchy patch in the best way I've thought of. Basically it looks like a patch of eczema on the outer 1/8 inch of his tail. Like this:
<Unfortunately, the little diagram will not reproduce well for the FAQs, but with your new description and the diagram, I'm pretty sure you're dealing with fin rot.  Fortunately, this is easily treatable.>
He actually nibbles off little flakes of it. He sits under the filter intake a lot and I've noticed little bits of it flake away and get sucked into the filter or fall onto the bottom of the tank. Problem is, since he's a Pink Kisser, his fins are very light colored; in most places they're very light whitefish, not quite clear, and I can't tell if he has any spots or not. He could be completely covered with them and they aren't visible Black construction paper behind the tank didn't help much either (he was scared of it).  
<LOL!  Ivan the Terrible?  Or Ivan the Terrified?>
I read the Ick page (thanks for the link) and I'm going to try getting a sample of his tail slime to take to the pet store or a fish vet (if I can find one). I'll take a water sample too, but the water here is different from the stuff I use at school. (Would the bottled "Betta Water" I've seen in pet stores help with changes any?) My biggest problem with diagnosis is, of all the Pink Kissers in the world and the hundreds of them turn that turn homicidal, I have to get the only one I've heard of yet that's a complete and utter coward. When I got him from the pet store he was in a 10 gal with about 40 other fry. He
was one of the smallest in there and was getting chased around the tank (typical behavior for the kind). I took him specifically because he was little and needed out of there or he'd starve. Since then, he's been terrified of anything pinkish (including my hands), anything that looks like another fish (He saw a picture of a gold fish on a pet guide worksheet and hid until I moved it), and anything that moves quickly or reflects light (camera lenses, mirrors, watches, etc).
<Ivan the Terrified, indeed!>
I got a picture once from across the room with a zoom lens and hung it on my wall at school-- where its hanging now. I'll send a photo as soon as I can.
<If it's possible, that'd be great, but again, I'm pretty confidant with the description you gave now.  To treat the fin rot, I would use a good antibiotic, like Kanamycin (Available from Aquatronics as "Kanacyn" in a gray box).  Use as directed, it should clear this up just fine.>
He only sits (?) still in the open when he's curious about something (running water especially) or when he's hungry (which is any time he's not sleeping). The minute I move near the tank he hides behind his plants.
<It might help to give him more hiding spaces.  Perhaps a few rocks or a cave, maybe some more plants like the Anacharis/elodea for him to nibble on.  The idea behind this is that the more opportunity they have to hide, the less they feel the need to.  In my experience, this is almost invariably true.>
Thanks for all your info and help. I appreciate it.
<Sure thing - glad to be able to help!>
Take care.  Becky             
<You too.  Wishing you (and Ivan) well,  -Sabrina>

Kissing Gourami and plants (III, I think)
We really must share a wave length or something because the day after I sent the last email I went to the petstore and bought more plants as Ivan the Terrified's Christmas present (Yes, I think the name is going to stick).
<LMAO!>
They're larger than the old ones and the tank now looks more like a jungle. He loves it.
<Wonderful to hear.>
I also started throwing a new slice of peeled cucumber in the tank every day
<You can actually leave the peel on; it's probably the most nutritive part.  It would also be a good idea to "blanch" (drop into boiling water for 10 seconds or so) this and other fresh veggies you give him.  You can do a whole bunch ahead of time, then freeze them on a cookie sheet and put it all in a bag in the freezer, then you can just pull out a piece whenever you want.>
and tried some spinach. Unfortunately, he thinks that the spinach should come in flake form; he won't eat it unless I chop it up for him.
<Perhaps try frozen spinach?  It's usually already in pretty small pieces.  Might be easier.>
Let it never be said that I don't spoil my fish.
<I will not say that, I assure you!>
Interestingly enough, the stuff on his tail has gone away.
<With good water quality, mild cases of fin rot often clear up on their own.>
I did full water tests per your questions about levels. Current standings: Nitrate: 20ppm; Nitrite: 0; Hardness: 300; Alkalinity: 180; Ph: 7.6. Temp is 78.6 F.
<Not bad.  What about ammonia?>
We have a well heavy in iron, but I'm not sure how to soften the water without messing with the alkalinity, which is also a little higher than I think he needs.
<Really, this isn't of major concern for him.  Yes, it's a bit on the side of "liquid rock" (pretty hard), but that's not a huge issue for this tough species.  If you really, really want to lower it, you could do so with peat moss in the filter; this will stain the water a yellow-brown color, but that's only an aesthetic issue.  It will also lower the pH, but really, I think this is quite unnecessary.>
Whatever the water conditions, the tail hasn't bothered him for 2 days or so now.
<Excellent.>
With different water at school, we'll see what happens with his condition later.
<Is it at all possible to bring a couple of 5 gallon jugs of water with you, so you can make the change to school water a little more slowly?  Just a thought.>
For the moment he's chasing bubbles around his tank and making kissy faces at me, so I'm guessing he feels pretty good.
<Certainly sounds good!>
Pictures of my little monster are forthcoming as soon as the film is developed. I will email them as soon as I can.
<Cool.  Pics always make it easier to give a more accurate diagnosis, though I am pretty certain now that it is/was fin rot.>
Until that time, thank you very much for all your help and happy holidays.
Becky  
<And Happy Holidays to you and Ivan.... the Terrified....  I'm still giggling.  -Sabrina>

Pucker Up!  (Kissing Gourami)
Hi. I'm a complete newbie to fishkeeping and I had a couple of questions.
<Welcome to the hobby.>
Here's my situation. My 2 year old Pink Kisser, Ivan the Terrible,
<Ooh, what a fitting name!>
is about 5" long. He lives by himself in a heated (80*F/ 27*C) 10 gal. tank with fluorescent light and external filtration system set up in my dorm room. He's an only child and will probably remain that way.
<A good plan with this fish, which can potentially become a foot long terror.  Until he's into a much large tank, he's best on his own.>
I've got 5 or 6 plastic plants that he likes to hide behind and nibble on and a layer of natural gravel on the bottom so he can eat algae.
<And eat algae he will - that's what those thick lips were designed for (among other things).>
My first concern is diet. I feed Wardley brand tropical flake food as his main diet (a pinch 2-3 times a day),
<Not my personal favorite, to be honest... and really, this fish should be fed much more in the way of greens than 'community' type flake foods.  Frozen algae preparations, sushinori, romaine lettuce, blanched zucchini/cucumber, shelled peas....  Spirulina flakes, if necessary.>
supplemented with 2-3 Wardley Betta pellets a day for color (pet store recommendation, but he doesn't seem to like it)
<I think this is probably unnecessary, to be honest.  Betta food is usually a high protein food to mimic the live goodies they would eat in the wild, whereas kissing Gourami feed primarily on algal matter and plants (and the occasional aquatic invertebrate).  If you want him to "color up" a bit, perhaps a "color/red enhancing" cichlid food could be fed very sparingly.  Again, unnecessary, IMO.>
and the occasional fresh cucumber slice or spinach leaf.
<Ahh, good.  I would make this a lot more than occasional - these and the other greens above should be his staple.  Be sure to blanch fresh veggies (drop into boiling water for 10 seconds or so), or he may possibly develop some internal disorders.>
My main concerns are the balance between his flake food and what he needs nutritionally. The flakes are 46% protein, 5% fat, and 4% fiber; main ingredients are fish meal, wheat flour and soy protein. He's growing like a weed, so I don't think he's severely deficient in anything, but I'd like an expert opinion.
<I really feel like he could do better with more greens in his diet, and less high protein foods.  Better to match as closely as possible what these fish were designed to eat in nature.>
Secondly, a health/disease issue. About 2.5 weeks ago, Ivan developed a white flaky condition on his tail and only on his tail, which led me to rule out fin rot.
<Can you describe this in further detail?  I'm having trouble picturing a white, flaky tail....>
He also started rubbing on the filter intake nozzle in the tank. The rubbing I attributed to a breeding behavior since I turned up the heater when the weather got cold. (They cuddle with their mates when they're... um... *happy* and a swift change in temp. will cause that, or so I'm told.)
<Though I don't know much about the breeding habits of this species, I would definitely be concerned with this scratching.>
He didn't have the white spots associated with Ick, but I opted for Ick treatment and it went away after about 3 days.
<Through most of its lifecycle, ich is not visible.  It could very well be that he had the very beginnings of an ich infestation.  More on ich here:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm .>
I did a 1/3 water change and put in a new filter cartridge on Wednesday, then left him for 4 days with a vacation feeder while I went home for Thanksgiving.
<Personally, I don't much like the slow-release feeders.  They may alter the pH some, in some cases, and IMO, aren't terribly nutritious.  Might want to invest in an automatic feeder, that you put flake/pellet food in, which will release the food you choose as often as you set it for.>
When I came back Sunday, the white flaky stuff was back just as bad as it was before. I stopped filtration again,
<You can leave the filter running (for circulation/physical filtration), just remove any carbon or cartridges containing carbon.>
treated for Ick and it went completely away. Two weeks later, I'm home for Christmas and he came with me. I did a 50% water change, put in a new filter cartridge, vacuumed his gravel and wiped his plants to keep the algae from getting too thick. He's doing all his regular fishy things, but there's a tiny white flaky patch on his tail again.
<I don't think we're quite on the same wavelength, here....  I really can't envision this flaky patch.  Is it small?  Large?   How small/large?  In spots?  Opaque?  Fuzzy?  Flaky as in peeling, like a sunburn?  Look kinda like cauliflower?  Feel free to get very descriptive.>
I think I've established that its not Ick or it wouldn't keep coming back after a full treatment and he'd have white spots elsewhere, which he doesn't.
<Please do check out that link on ich; the full life cycle of ich is about two weeks (though this is dependant upon temperature), and for most of its life, is not treatable.>
What the heck is this and how do I fix it?
<Please do write back, and describe the heck out of this, if you can.  I'm very sorry I'm not clearly picturing this.  Ah, in fact, if you can email us a photo of the fish/flaky patch with your description, that'd be even better.>
Would you suggest any changes in setup other than tank size, which I can't do anything about until I get a bigger living space?
<Woah....  I said we're not on the same wavelength, but you read my mind!  Okay, I won't say anything about tank size here, just that he'll end up topping out around twelve inches ;)  You might want to think about giving him a constant supply of Anacharis/elodea to nibble on - in fact, that'd make a *perfect* weekend feeder for him when you're gone!  More greens, as above.  I also wonder at your water conditions (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH), as the only thing at all that I can think of as "flaky" is Lymphocystis, which is a viral condition, brought on by poor water quality (often prolonged exposure to high nitrates) and can be recurring.>
Any feedback would be appreciated.
<Here's something that you might enjoy:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/anabantoids.htm .>
Thanks!  Becky       
<Wishing you well,  -Sabrina>

Sick Pink Kissing Gourami
A friend recently gave me his a fish tank that had a very small fish and a Kissing Gourami. The fish sat in his office's lobby where almost nobody noticed them. I took them home and put them in the same tank they had lived in their entire lives, with the decorations exactly the same. The small fish is doing great and swimming all the time, the Gourami is sitting on the bottom of the tank with its fin and barely ever moves. When it does move, it swims around the tank once and goes up to the surface and shoots back down and sits on the bottom of the tank again. I first thought I had ICH, so I treated the water, but It didn't seem to help anything. What should I do? What's hurting my fish
Thanks, Ryan
<Mmm, well, Kissers do "sit about" quite a bit... If your tank is large enough (twenty or more gallons) and otherwise not overcrowded I would add another kisser... they're social... hard to "kiss yourself"... and this should stir the present one to be more active. Bob Fenner> 

Whitish Slime on Gravel  2/27/07
Hi there,
<Hi Casie, Pufferpunk here>
I have a 38 gallon fresh water tank. I have 5 tetras, (not sure what kind of tetra), a kissing Gourami, a peppered loach and 2 angel fish.
<Those pink "kissers" are quite aggressive & grow to a foot.>
Yesterday both of my angel fish died =(. It looked like they had been getting picked on in the eyes. I believe the kissing Gourami is a little meaner than I thought.  (I just added him last week).
<Sure is!>
This morning I woke up to this whitish/clear substance in some of the gravel. It almost looks "squishy". I didn't want to bother it not knowing what it was, (eggs or more likely bacteria maybe?)
<Bacterial, caused probably by over-feeding & under-cleaning.>
Some of it is now floating in the water and I did scoop that out. Could this of caused the angel fish to die?  
<An end result, I'm sure.>
I should mention that I also have sand in the bottom of the tank along with gravel. It was from my saltwater tank that I no longer use. I bleached it and it's been in there some time now but maybe it's from the sand?
<Depending on how deep the sand is, if you don't stir it weekly, anaerobic (toxic air pockets) can develop in the sand.>
I've searched the internet for about an hour looking for it, everything I find refers to saltwater. Any clue as to what it is?
<It sounds to me that you aren't doing enough regular weekly water changes or cleaning the substrate.  Weekly 50% water changes are the very best thing you can do to insure healthy fish.  Clean the gravel with a gravel cleaner, while removing the water.  That should remove most of the "gunk".  If you haven't done a water change in a while, then 2 consecutive 25% water changes within 2 days will be best, so you don't shock the fish.  Be sure to match the water temperature 7 dechlorinate (I prefer using Prime)>
Let me know if you believe it could be harmful. Sorry to drag on about what I think it could be, obviously I have no clue *smile*. Thank you for your help.
<I'd find another home for the Gourami.  It would have been best to leave your tank stocked as it was.  Perfect balance of fish.  ~PP>
~Casie L.