Discus and loaches  7/19/06
Hello again, been awhile for me. Going discus and reading all I can here. Invaluable. My question is: I've had 6 striated loaches in a community tank and would love to keep them in with the discus. I'm keeping Otos and Siamese algae eaters with the discus and haven't decided on the one only schooling species I want to keep. Will the loaches be a problem?
<Mmm, should get along fine as long as there is sufficient room. Do "enjoy" similar water quality: http://fishbase.sinica.edu.tw/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=12255&genusname=Botia&speciesname=striata
Bob Fenner>

Queen Loaches Aggressive 10/31/05
Hi, Thanks a lot. I researched at loaches.com and this loach is Queen loach (Botia dario). However it says that they are not aggressive. Anyway I have separated dollars and every one seems to be happy. Thanks a lot
< Aggressive is a relative term. It may not be as aggressive as some loaches but compared to tropical fish in general it could easily bully other fish around if it wanted to.-Chuck> 

Aggressive Loaches Not Clowning Around - The Most Respectfully Submitted Email EVER! 10/28/05
Hi, Kindly accept my sincere regards for such a excellent site. I set up my first 15g tank in July this year, did some stupid things, some wise things (reading your site) and have finally stopped killing my fishes. In fact I now have now a second 55g tank with 3 goldfishes and a freshwater minnow called tiger shark
My question is regards with my 15g tank, it has a filter, heater, and is a established tank for three months, original occupants were goldfishes now shifted to 55g.
15g tank has two silver dollars 1.5”, 2 platy, 2 sword tails, I wanted to add some loaches. I read extensively and come to conclusion that clown loaches were schooling fishes and decided on a minimum of 4 fishes 1.5”. The fishes sold to me do not seem to be clown loaches although they look like clown, this fellow said that they are called “Rani loaches” and are same. However my problem is that these loaches have started picking on dollars, striking at their eyes or base of tail. This problem is now so acute that dollars are now showing signs of stress. Kindly guide me why is this happening. If I separate the fishes which can I put with goldfish or should I return them. Thanks Sandeep R
< I went to loaches.com and could not find any fish listed there when I searched for rani. All loaches are not alike. Some are small and very peaceful while others can be very aggressive and get large. Please go to loaches.com to research the right loach for your particular tank situation.-Chuck> 

Discus Being Chased  12/04/05
I noticed today that the reticulated loaches seemed to chase and pester the lone discus in the 150gal system. Is it possible that they are the complication?
< Aggression ads to the stress your discus are going through. It would be best for the discus if they were not being chased around.>
I noticed the discus feeding on some flake that had fallen from the water's surface. While eating and about, his fins are open and he seems well, but when not he is dark and acts like he's hiding. Any suggestions? Branon.
< Hopefully his fins will stay open more and more as he gets re-accustomed to the tank.-Chuck> 

Loaches
Do you think loaches shaped like the clown loach such as the horai's loach and the yo-yo loach and the orange finned loach can be kept with a few pairs of
convict cichlids in a 55 gallon tank? 
<I give you good odds with these smaller cobitid species and the Convicts... given the size of the system, if the Cichlids start to tussle, reproduce, the loaches should be able to get, stay out of the way>
I know clown loaches can. I was wondering if I could add more loaches into my tank to make it look better.
Thanks
<Do of course provide coconut shell, magic castle, other decor for your loaches use to hide in. Bob Fenner>

Do Dojo loach's eat other fish ?
<Well... big fish do eat little fish, but in the case of the dojo loach, I highly doubt they would eat another fish.>

Loach party? (06/10/03)
Hiya campers!
<Hi! Ananda camping out in front of the computer tonight...>
I purchased some plants about a month ago, and while the peeps in the store SWORE there were no snails in that tank, obviously there were as I have apparently become a snail breeder (ick).
<Unless, of course, you have puffers or loaches! Since I have both, I actually have a snail farm tank.>
Someone recommended loaches, and I went to the good LFS (which is 40 min.s away) to pick up some yo-yos. Of course, they had none so I purchased 3 clowns instead (like em just as well,
but was hoping NOT to need a new tank in the near future LOL).
<They don't grow super-fast, but they do grow. Kudos for getting a trio!>
One of the clown didn't make it (no surprise; I understand they are all wild caught and they can be tetchy).
<Yup! Be very, very careful to match the water temperatures with all water changes!>
The other 2 are happy, hale n hearty, and will be out of QT next week and into the main tank.
<HOT DANG SHE QUARANTINED HER NEW FISH!!  [insert applause here] My loach-fanatic friend says you should try to get clown loaches that are at least a couple of inches long (excluding tail length). And look for the ones that are the most robust.>
I went to the icky LFS today to get some bloodworms (its closer), and noticed THEY have yo-yos. So my question is, if I purchase a yo-yo to replace the clown I lost, will he be just as happy hanging with clowns as he would with other yo-yos?
<I haven't had yo-yos, but I'm not certain that they would.>
(This is assuming I can get the lil guy to survive; the icky pet store is a fish morgue.)
<Oooh.. then don't get them there!>
I understand loaches are not happy alone (hence my original purchase of 3) but can't seem to find if they will be happy with other types of loaches. I checked your faq and loaches.com,
but there were no clear answers.
<You might want to post on both the WetWeb boards at http://wetwebfotos.com/talk and the boards at loaches.com. We do have a yo-yo loach fan on the WetWeb boards.>
I'd prefer to understock the tank as its a 25 gallon, and I've already got 2 angels and a liposarcus in there (and yeah, there will be a larger tank in the future LOL just hopefully not till next year); hence my thinking of only getting the single yo-yo. Any suggestions?
<Shop around for another clown loach. I usually like to get my fish from independently-owned stores. But not with the loaches. I admit to getting mine from a chain store, because they *consistently* had the healthiest clown loaches. Something else to keep the loaches happy: give them some caves they can hide and sleep in. My loaches absolutely love playing "loach pile" in the carved strawberry rock pieces that came with my 55g tank. When they cruise from one end of the tank to the other, I swear they go out of their way to swim through the holes in the rocks!>
Thanx!
Allison
<You're welcome! And please join us on the WetWebMedia discussion boards and give us a progress report.  --Ananda>

Re: clown loaches and snails
Hi gang,
<Greetings!>
I have a planted tank with several medium (3") clown loaches...initially stocked to control snail stowaways on plants, which they do well.  In fact, not only have the loaches become one of my favorite fishes in all my tanks, I actually breed and raise Ramshorn snails just so I can give them a treat a few times a month!  =)
<I’m sure they love this, I do it myself with my clowns.>
My question:  I have a couple LARGE (2" or so) Gold Inca (not exactly sure of the species) snails in need of a home.  They've been housed in my quarantine tank for nearly a year, so I doubt introducing pathogens would pose a risk to the tank, however, would the clown loaches pose a risk to these big guys?
<Very possibly. I know I’ve seen clowns eat snails that were over an inch in size so I’d be afraid to try it even with snails as large as yours.>
Also... now that I have your attention, hehe.  What are some species of plants (if any) that would do OK in a moderately aerated tank?   I'm not looking to win any awards in these tanks, just to add some "live" decorations.
<A lot would depend on your lighting. Some of my favorites for moderately lit, moderately aerated tanks are Anacharis (this one is rumored to be touchy but I’ve always had good luck with it), Elodea, and Anubias.>
Thanks a bunch, and keep up the good work on WWM! Cheers, Michael
<Thank you and you’re welcome! Ronni>

Snails and clown loaches
Hi guys/gals, hope you are all well!
<Yes, thank you>
I am having trouble with an outbreak of snails and want advise about clown loaches that are NOT eating them!!
<Unusual... it may well be that they are just not "familiar" with them as a food source. Do try "squishing" a few smaller (softer shelled) specimens and leaving them in with the loaches without their usual meaty food items for a couple of days... this will usually "do the trick">
I went to LFS last Tuesday and bout 3 clown loaches since I've read they do well in groups of 3. They are rather attractive but I was a little concerned about over stocking my tank- it's a 15 gallon planted tank- was doing extremely well, with 2 rasboras, 2 white clouds, 3 Otos, 2 cherry barbs. But I have a piece of driftwood that has never caused me trouble- but I added 2 ml of Zoe, vitamin supplement for fish, and it turns out that upon close reading of label, Zoe also helps invertebrates grow- so I think that is where all the snails (look like Ramshorns) came from- a ton of them. They've eaten holes in a lot of my plants and that's why I wanted to get the loaches.
<Mmm, well, your loaches will eventually "out-grow" this size system>
I wanted to get a dwarf loach, Botia Sidthimunki , but the guy told me they are sometimes aggressive and my fish are rather timid lot! So I decided to go for 3 loaches and risk overstocking tank. I do weekly changes, about 2-3 gallons, and it's always pristine.
I've had these fish for 6 days, and THEY ARE NOT eating snails! in fact, when I feed flake food to my other fish, the 3 rush to top and push others around and eat flakes!! Is this normal? Perhaps the LFS fed them flakes??
<Maybe, and not unusual... they are called "clowns" for more than their colorful markings>
What do I do know, since I still have snails-- took out 12 small ones this evening?? Is dwarf loach aggressive?
thanks in advance...
Rosa
<Try the "squished" possibility. Bob Fenner>

Re: Snails and clown loaches
Dear Bob,
thanks for response. I was on loaches.com and someone there gave me same advice- so will try that.  Meanwhile, I've read the zebra loach is a more
snail aggressive loach and they don't get quite as large as clowns, or at least that what LFS told me.
<This is so>
Any suggestions re substituting the clowns forthe zebras?
<I would stick with the Clowns for now, maybe swap them out for Botia sidthmunki later if the Clowns don't work out. Bob Fenner>
thank you again,
Rosa

Clown Loaches Eating Tetras?
Hello,
I have a 54 gal. community tank stocked with various tetra's, Angels, YoYo Loaches, 3 Clown loaches, and some Neon's.  I recently bought 6 more neons to add to the tank and have seen my Clown Loaches eating them.  Is this normal behavior?
<Nope>
The Clowns are about 4" long and have been living peacefully with the other fish including about 6 neon's.  It was only after adding the new Neon's that the problem started.  Any advise?
<Did you actually witness your Clown Loach striking the neon in a Jaws like fashion?  Is it possible that the new fish died due to maybe stress from the move, and the Clown Loach was just cleaning up the remains?  Most likely the Loach was just scavenging the left overs.  Sorry about your Tetra.  Loaches mouths are not really designed for killing, but they can be a little aggressive and are capable of harassing other fish, if the loaches are killing your Tetras you should look into separating them, or getting larger Tetras.  Best Regards, Gage>
Thank you,
Kurt

Clown Loaches
Hi, It's been a while since I spoke to you all.
<Welcome back>
Unfortunately I seem to have a new problem. I have 2 clown loaches, when I got them they were both the same size. As they got older one had become larger than the other. I had been told by my LFS that they were schooling fish and I should at least get 2. So I did. I was also told that they would get along as they grew. But as it turned out the larger one is picking on the smaller one. Are they naturally aggressive toward one another, or would a larger amount (1 or 2 more) ease the problem between the 2.  Any advice would be much appreciated.  THANK YOU DS
<Clown Loaches are somewhat aggressive, and also playful with one another, I would add between 1-3 more, depending on the size of your tank.  They will be happier with the increased number of fish, and the aggressive one can spread the beatings around so no one fish is picked on too much.  Best Regards, Gage>

Going Planted; Yo-Yo Loach 
Hello, 
<Hi> 
I have a 46 gallon community tank with Cardinal Tetras, Zebra Danios, Cory Cats, a Yo-Yo Loach, a Gourami, and pair of Kribensis. The tank has been established for about a year, and I'm now transitioning my tank to a planted tank. I have purchased new lights that holds 3-36" 30 watt bulbs. I have also purchased a Hagen fermentation style CO2 kit. Does my lighting sound adequate? 
<That really depends on what plants you want to keep; with your lighting, I'd stay away from plants that have high light requirements. There are gobs and gobs of plants you can play with for this setup.> 
I'm also curious if the Hagen will inject enough CO2 into the tank. 
<This depends on how heavily you wish to plant the tank; you might want a second such system, or a DIY CO2 generator in addition to the one Hagen generator.> 
I'm a little torn on what kind of fertilizer I should use (liquid/solid). Any suggestions that may help? 
<Well, to be honest, I use both. I'd recommend liquid fertilizers regularly, and any particularly picky plants, give a fertilizer plug.> 
One of my Danios is much larger than the others in the chest area (for lack of the appropriate term). It almost seems to be swollen. Do Danios swell during reproduction, 
<Females will get rather plump, so yes.> 
...or does my fish likely have some kind of disease? 
<Without seeing the fish, there's no real way I could tell you; but if the fish is otherwise acting/looking/eating well, I'd wager it's just a robust female.> 
Ammonia and nitrites are at 0, nitrates are acceptable, and pH is 7.4. 
<All good, though the cardinal tetras would appreciate a lower pH, but if you're planning on CO2 injection, that should help.> 
One more thing - have you heard of yo-yo loaches being aggressive. He seems to be the bully of the tank, and seems to pick on weaker fish. 
<Certainly sounds like a yo-yo loach! They do tend to be a little boisterous as they grow; not aggressive so much as insanely hyper-active.> 
Over the past year, I've had some fish die and look mangled. I'm not sure if they died for other reasons, and the scavengers started working on them, or if the loach had something to do with it. 
<I would certainly bet the first idea is the likeliest, though I'm sure the loach probably does cause the other fish some stress. Loaches do better in groups, so he's probably just making up for that by playing with the other fish instead - much to the other fishes' displeasure, I'm sure. If you like loaches but want something a little more laid back, consider Botia striata; they stay a bit smaller and are a little less, uh, annoying, to other fish - and on top of that, they're quite attractive.> 
The Kribs are a relatively new addition, so I can't blame them. All other fish are extremely docile. 
<Though I doubt the loach outright killed anyone, he might've stressed 'em to the point of illness/weakness, and eventually death, but that's only one possibility. If you really think he's a danger to any of the other fish, it might be a good idea to remove him. Otherwise, you *might* try adding a couple more, see if they share their attentions with one another, or if they still harass the other fish; that might be a touch risky, though.> 
Thanks for your help. 
<Hope all goes well, and that you enjoy the world of plantiness! -Sabrina> 
Jeremy Lane 

Snail Eaters
Hello,
I have a 90gal. fairly heavily planted tank with 8- 3" Discus, 6-Siamese Algae eaters, 3-Cory paleatus, and 1-Bristle nose Pleco.  I am planning to add about 20 cardinal tetra's (they are in quarantine now).  My question is regarding snails.  I inadvertently introduced them with my plants and am now looking for a way to control them.  
<Ugh.>
I know that Clown Loaches will eat them however I am afraid they will be too active for the Discus.  
<Quite possible.>
Someone told me that Dwarf Cichlid Ram's will control my snail population and get along O.K. with the Discus.  I can't find much info on the internet to back that up.  What is your opinion?  Will the Ram's eat snails?  
<I would seriously doubt that they could eliminate a snail problem.  I've known a few angelfish that ate snails, but only on pretty rare occasions, so certainly it might be possible that a ram would eat snails, but I can't see 'em keeping the population under control, in any stretch.>
Will they get along O.K. in a soft water PH about 6.3 Planted Discus tank?  
<Absolutely they would.>
Do you have any other suggestions to get rid of the snails?  
<Botia striata are my loach of choice for this use.  So far, IME, they seem to me to be the most laid back of the Botias, and are *extremely* adept at snail munchin'.  Give 'em a try, and in a week or so, you'll be in good shape, snail-wise, I'd wager.  If they seem to be too crazy for the discus, you can always remove them.  Three B. striata is all it took to rid my 72g plant tank of a *heavy* snail infestation in about a week.>
I don't really want to use any chemicals because they might harm the plants and the other fish.  Thanks for your help!  Kurt
<Hope all goes well,  -Sabrina>

Yoyo Loach and other questions
Hi I emailed you a couple of weeks ago. I have the over-population of snails. I called about 11 different pet stores that sold fish. Finally I found a Aquarium store. Well no one has Skunk Botia's. The people at the fish store told me to get the Yoyo's because they are smaller and won't kill my baby fish. Yeah I'm experimenting with breeding fish. Well I have 5 guppies and I have no clue how many babies. I have 2 from almost a month ago but I saw some really small ones today. I have 3 yoyos and 2 shrimp. I can't remember what kind it is. It isn't a ghost shrimp. Also I have 2 big snails.. They sell them at pet smart. Will the Yoyo's do the job?  I read that they don't like Malaysian snail. Could that prove a problem. My fish tank is 15 gallons. Is it too over populated? If so what is a good way for catching baby fish? Or what would you recommend. I have a 2 gallon in my kitchen I can transfer them to. It is empty. thanks <Should work out. Bob Fenner>

Clown loach with nibbled fins
Hi there -- been a long time since I've written.  I have a 180 gal tank with 4 clown loaches (2 are 8 inches long and 13 years old; 2 are 3 inches long and about 3 years old) 10 small glass catfish, 2 Plecos and one black skirt tetra.  One of the smaller loaches looks like his fins have been nibbled off.  He looks good otherwise and eats well.  I haven't seen anyone nipping at him, although one of the larger loaches gets impatient with him (haven't seen actual contact, though).  They had been co-existing peacefully for 2 years without incident.  There have been no new additions to the tank.  There are lots of hiding places, and the tank is very clean with bio-ball filtration and weekly 40 gallon water changes.  The temp is at 80F.
Any ideas on who the culprit(s) might be?
< Sure sounds like one of the other larger loaches is the culprit. They are getting old enough and large enough to where they might be thinking about breeding and might be picking on the smaller loaches as part of territorial disputes.-Chuck>
thanks
Tom

About Kuhli loaches and snails
Hi,
I have a bit of a snail problem in my 20-25gal tank. (size isn't 100% sure since it's not a standard tank) I pick out snails whenever I see them and I don't usually notice them much but sometimes it gets to be a problem. Also on my java fern which is in separate living quarters at the moment because of the education I am using) there are a ZILLION baby snails. (not surprising - I noticed several snail egg sacs on the fern when I moved it to its current quarters) I'm treating the separate bucket with had-a-snail. oh yes and I am currently treating the main tank with Coppersafe for Ich, which is supposed to be 'dangerous' to invertebrates but it doesn't seem to bother the snails at all! <Figures! But it may be doing a number on your filter. Please check for ammonia and nitrite spikes. Much better to QT fish for treatment and allow the tank to be fish free for a month. Treating the main tank can cause you more problems than snails.> (I am using a half-strength dosage to be gentle on plants, tetras and Otos)
Anyway I am concerned about this as the last thing I want is a big snail infestation. I'm wondering if Kuhli loaches might do the trick?
Obviously a clown loach would be the most effective, but I don't want to have to trade the fish back again as I live over an hour's drive
from the nearest pet store.  Also I was reading your faq a bit and you guys mentioned zebra loaches - I've never seen one but they also sound
like a good option if I could actually find them.
<Hi, Don here. Please check the link below for an thread on this subject going on in the forum right now. Please feel free to join in. Aquabid.com is great for finding fish not stocked in most LFS. Of course with the price of shipping added in, it can be costly. Perhaps talk to the manager at a pet store. >
[l]http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/thread.jsp?forum=3&thread=23318&tstart=0&trange=30[/l]
Can you guys give any recommendations?  a permanent, live in fish would be best. If the Kuhli loaches might do it (I have heard in a few
places that they may eat snails) I have had them in the past and I quite enjoy them :) If zebra loaches wouldn't get too big (the tank is
around 36 inches long and about 15 wide, and 10-12 deep, I don't recall exactly), and if I could find them, they seem like the best choice.
Thanks for any help you can give, your site has always been helpful :)
~Anna

Clown loach from African tank to Goldfish tank 7/14/05
Hi.  I have a 72g African cichlid tank that is relatively new and doing great!  However, last week I purchased 3 small clown loaches because the
sales guy told me they would be fine...
<Umm, learn to do your own research... ahead of purchasing livestock>
because of their sharp spines and that if a fish tried to eat one, they would spit it out.
<Uhh, no>
Well, two days later, my 4 inch frontosa ate one for breakfast...and had another half of one for lunch.  I removed the third clown loach and put him in my 30g fancy
goldfish tank.
<Also inappropriate>
There are 2 lionheads and 1 Oranda and also 10 zebra danios that I rescued from the African tank (I cycled with the zebras).  I put a
heater in the goldfish tank and keep it at 75.  Everyone seems to be doing fine.  I thought I'd keep the loach in there until he was big enough to put
back into the African tank.  
<Mmm, not a good idea... you actually have "three sets" of animals with different enough environmental needs and temperaments to warrant/require three different systems>
I know they like company of their own kind, but I don't really want to put more "tropical" fish in that tank.  I am also afraid of my cutie goldfishes getting ich.  Any advice?  (btw...I can take the clown loach back to where I got him from).
Thanks!
Michelle
<I'd either do this, or look into getting another more peaceful tropical system going. Bob Fenner>

Pond Snail Problem 7/30/05
Hi,
I was hoping someone could help me with my snail problem. I have a 20 gallon US aquarium with 2 Otos, 1 guppy, 4 neon tetras, and 2 Black Phantom Tetras. I had some small pond snails get into my tank from the plants I bought from the fish store, I tried to remove them manually, then tried Had-A-Snail, with no luck.
<Unusual>
I'm wondering with the size and population of my tank if there is a fish I could get that would eat the pond snails.
<There are a few... the best are loaches... oh, I see you know this from below>
I know one is a Skunk Loach, but I am having trouble finding one, do you have any other suggestions.
PS I have tried to get them with the food trick, but they keep coming back.
Thanks
Andrea
<Keep reading... on WWM re. Bob Fenner>