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FAQs on Mormyrid Fishes Disease/Health

Related Articles: Mormyrids, Elephantfishes, Electrogenic Fishes,

Mormyrid Problem 12/31/08
My elephant nose has red cheeks (ulcer?) on both sides and his brain seems larger than any other I've seen (almost swollen looking). Could it possibly be internal parasites? I have 5 tanks and am not new to keeping aquariums but have never encountered this and cannot find an explanation anywhere to what may be the cause of these odd symptoms. He eats well and dominates the tank (tank mates are: 3 honey gouramis & 6 African mini frogs & a Betta in
60 gal) Water quality is excellent. Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated.
<Hello; it's very unlikely "internal parasites" are to blame, but Mormyridae are very prone to systemic bacterial infections. Aquarists sometimes make the mistake of keeping them in tanks with gravel rather than smooth silica sand; the gravel damages their sensitive "trunk" allowing bacterial infections to get started. It's really pointless trying to keep
them in tanks with gravel. As you hopefully know, it's impossible to treat Mormyrids with anything containing copper and formalin, so you're limited to things like Maracyn in this instance. Do see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/mormyrids.htm
Cheers, Neale.>

Elephant Nose Skin 12/27/08
Peeling/Fin Deteriorating Happy Holidays WWM Crew!
I will make this as short and sweet, yet detailed, as possible. I have a 55 gallon tank with a heater, Whisper60 power filter, and a single airstone on the opposite end of the tank as the filter. Water Parameters:
Ammonia: 0, Nitrite: 0, Nitrate: 10, pH: 8.3 (Very hard water where we live)
<In itself, this water chemistry should be acceptable though not ideal for Mormyrids; water quality seems good.>
Stock includes: Approximately 25 Mollies (Here's the story on the excessive number of mollies: A year ago we started with 6 of them, one female was constantly pregnant. The others died throughout the year for various reasons and finally a few months ago our pregnant female died as well. However, in her last months in the tank she had 3 different batches of fry. Most survived and thrived. I take a bag of them to Petco every now and then, whenever it becomes difficult to keep up the cleanliness of the water. So at this point we've got approx. 25 1.5" mollies. Possibly too many for the tank, but as of 20 minutes ago the water read as stated above.)
1 Elephant Nose
1 Shrimp (last seen in March, but with no ammonia spikes having occurred,
I'd imagine he's found a nice spot to hide)
1 Guppy
Here is our issue: While all the mollies and the guppy (and the shrimp, too, I hope) are acting and looking perfectly well, I noticed peeling skin on the Elephant Nose late yesterday. Additionally, his dorsal fin looks slightly deteriorated. It doesn't look ragged or torn, but more like melted plastic (sorry... it's the best I could come up with). This Elephant Nose is about 6" from nose to tail, and the area that is peeling is nearly 1.5" long down its back and goes down its sides just slightly.
If you look at it closely it looks like there are 4 different tiny spots down his back that are each surrounded by a circle of damaged skin... and all areas are connected. So far its acting more or less normal, but I've noticed slightly less activity tonight (he's out of sight during the day and becomes active as the day ends). He is eating normally, as well.
<The "melted" fin does sound like Finrot; while usually caused by water quality-induced opportunistic infections, it isn't beyond the realms of possibility for mechanical injury or even damage from other fish to be responsible. Mollies for example can be aggressive, though in all honesty I doubt they're the problem. But that said, I have seen seemingly harmless fish cause harm to one another, for example Otocinclus catfish damaging the skin of large gobies. Mollies are expert "raspers", and it's not impossible they're sucking the mucous off the Elephantnose, allowing a secondary infection.>
The only thing I can imagine that could have caused this would be stress.
We recently had to move the entire tank/stand to the other side of the room and had to drain most of the water to reduce the weight of the set-up. We did not have to remove any of the fish during this process. While this may have been stressful for the Elephant Nose, we've had it for over a year now and had to move to a house 20 mi. away about 8 months ago. During this process we drained all but enough water to keep the gravel submerged in order to keep at least part of our bio-filter during the move. All the fish were bagged and put into a dark cooler during the trip. All survived!! But the Elephant Nose was especially stressed out by the time he got back into the tank. So much so that his color temporarily faded to being a very light gray/white. But he recovered almost instantly and was always very healthy up until now. And in fact, his skin is looking slightly better today then it was yesterday (when I first noticed it). But his fin is still the same.
<Stress is of course a possible but I'm always keen on aquarists differentiating between the (quantifiably dangerous) stress caused by poor water quality compared to the (much less measurable) stress caused by being unhappy. In other words, while fish clearly become sick when exposed to the wrong environmental conditions, it's much less clear that fish become sick because they're exposed to something we'd perceive as being troubling or stressful. So while I wouldn't dismiss the idea that a schooling fish would be stressed if it was kept singly, or a female Molly might be harassed by a male, that a fish would develop serious sickness weeks or months after being moved is, to me, less likely. I'd focus on reviewing the environment.
Mormyrids have small scales and are likely to be damaged by things like sharp gravel, coarse plastic plants, bleached or replica corals, coarse nets, and so on.>
So... what can i do?
<Initially at least, even without understanding the cause, I'd be treating for Finrot. Use a medication that doesn't contain either copper or formalin; Maracyn would be ideal, or Maracyn 2 if the former doesn't work.
The point is to put a stop to whatever the bacterial infection is, even without identifying it.>
What is this?
<Not sure.>
What caused it?
<Difficult to say.>
Thank you so much for your time. -CB
<Good luck, Neale.>

Ich elephant nose 10/23/07
I have had my elephant nose Approximately 8 months. He has been happy and healthy. He has developed tiny white spots on his pectoral fins and anal fin that look like ich. Is there any medicine I can treat him with that won't kill him?
Thank You
Karen
<Hello Karen. With Mormyridae, the things to avoid specifically are Formalin and Copper, both of which are widely used in anti-Ick medications. So you need to treat Mormyridae in the same basic way as, say, Clown Loaches (see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/clnlchdis.htm ). Anyway, the basic trick is this: raise the temperature to 30 degrees C (around 86 F). Oxygen level goes down as temperature goes up, so you need to compensate for that. Add additional aeration if you can, but failing that, adjust the water level and/or filter so there is lots of splashing and circulation. Now make up a brine solution in a jug, with about 2-3 grammes of aquarium salt (not marine salt) per litre of water in the aquarium (in other words, a salinity of 2-3 PPT). There's almost exactly 6 grammes of salt per teaspoon, so estimating how much you need should not be too difficult. Stir the salt into the water thoroughly until dissolved, and then slowly add the brine a little at a time into the outflow of the filter so that it quickly disperses around the tank. After a few days the parasites on your fish will mature and die, but the mobile parasite larvae will not be able to re-infect your fish, and the disease will go away. This takes quite a few days, but it does work. Increasing the salt concentration to as much as 6 grammes per litre of water can be used to deal with stubborn infections, but the higher the salinity, the more gently you need to adjust your fish to it, and the higher the degree of osmotic stress placed on the fish. Conversely, once you're done treating the fish, do a series of relatively small water changes over the next few days to gradually bring the salinity down to zero. As ever, do establish why the Ick became a problem. It doesn't come from nowhere, and is either brought in by unquarantined fish or else provoked into action by stress or lapses in water quality. With Mormyridae, prevention is FAR better than cure. Good luck, Neale.>

Baby Whale & Fish-Tail Rot Medication - 06/27/07
Neale,
<Hello Michelle,>
Thank you for your wonderful advice regarding the baby whale. Maracide is a 5-day treatment (today will be day 4), so far the baby whale and the snails are fine and the ick vanished. Every night I siphon-up about 3 gallons of water (38 gallon tank) from just above the gravel, where I read ick parasites inhabit. I thought about moving the baby whale, but he seems to have made a home for himself under driftwood and our hospital tank is now housing my one remaining gourami... who seems to be doing ok.
<Very good. Siphoning up the baby whitespot parasites sounds a bit unlikely to work to me, but it can't do any harm I suppose.>
Also, we have a new challenge; it seems that the lovely rainbow fish contributed not only ick but fin-tail rot. The betta finnage was devastated seemingly overnight. Next in line are the Panda Corys (primarily the dorsal fins). I am a bit concerned because about a year back I had one Panda Cory be consumed by some kind of fin-tail rot bacteria that seemed resistant to everything, and in the end there were no fins left... It was the saddest thing I've seen happen to any of my fish, doubly so because I'm particularly fond of Corys (there about 3 years old).
<Now, finrot is almost always caused by water or fin-nipping issues. Sometimes it does come in with new fish, but only very rarely. 99 times out of 100, it's either the environment or persistent nipping by other fish in the tank. Given the baby whale is OK, water quality is likely to be good, but water chemistry might not be. Mormyrids aren't fussy about water chemistry (they're found in habitats as varied as blackwater streams and Rift Valley lakes). But rainbows like neutral to slightly alkaline, moderately hard water. That the dorsal fins of the Corydoras are rotting immediately suggests fin nipping though. I've seen this when keeping Corydoras with pufferfish (not a good combo!). Ditto with the Betta; these fish are notorious targets for fin nippers. So, what's in the tank? Anything likely to be nippy?>
I've started treating with Maracyn II (although, I've never had much success with this medication). Today will be the third day. The fin-tail rot doesn't seem to be progressing... I think, but I can't detect re-growth either. Would you suggest I continue, or stop treatment with Maracyn II.
<Unless there are compelling reasons not to *always* finish off medications.>
On hand I have, Mardel's TriSulfa and Maracyn Plus. I've never tried a sulfa-based medication before. I could also go & buy whatever you suggest.
Again a concern is the baby whale (who seems fine.. still slurping up worms).
<Like you, I'm pleased the baby whale is happy, and that strongly suggests the basic conditions in the tank are sound. I'd personally be spot-treating the fish with finrot by dipping them into baths of some sort. Even saltwater (marine salt mix or uniodized cooking salt added to a litre of aquarium water) dips can work to slow down mild finrot (seawater strength, for 2-20 minutes depending on the size and species involved). An adult Corydoras, for example, would probably be safe dipped for around 3-5 minutes. They are not very salt tolerant. Freshwater livebearers and cichlids, on the other hand, are often much more salt tolerant so you can be more aggressive with the dips. The idea is to dehydrate the external parasites and clean the wounds while not harming the fish. Provided the fish being dipped stays upright and stable, you're fine, but if it loses balance or starts thrashing about wildly, pull it out. Repeat daily until things are better. Finrot is an exceedingly aggressive disease, and untreated spreads to the body, resulting in septicaemia, which is basically untreatable (and fatal).>
Cheers,
Michelle
<Hope this helps, Neale>

Ick treatment & a Baby Whale 6/23/07
Hello, Thank you kindly for your prognosis on the Dwarf Gourami. I'll keep them isolated and cross my fingers.... and not re-stock with Dwarf Gouramis. Another question: Today I noticed that one of the rainbow fish (Red Rainbow female) has 2 tiny white spots... sweet mother of science, I fear ick. She's a relatively new introduction to the tank (4 days) but was quarantined for 8 days prior to being introduced. If ick, I've previously had success with Mardel's Maracide Concentrate... but what about the Baby Whale who lives in the tank (I've had him for about 8 months now... a healthy happy 4 inch Mormyridae) can he withstand an ick treatment like Maracide. Many thanks, Michelle
<Happy to help. It's a shame that Dwarf Gourami Disease is so common. Anyway, as for the Ick in your aquarium, be extremely careful when treating the tank. I am not personally familiar with this medication, but I'm a bit concerned that its web page says it "may be harmful to amphibians and some snails". Anyway, before using it, check that the carton said it was safe with invertebrates and stingrays. Anything safe with those should be safe with mormyrids; if it doesn't say it is safe for those, then assume it is not. If your retailer doesn't know, then checking the web site (or telephoning) the manufacturer can help. The safest thing is move the Mormyrid to a quarantine tank, treat the main tank, use carbon and water changes to remove leftover medication, and then return the Mormyrid. With luck, your Mormyrid will not be infected. Since you've had the baby whale 8 months, he's obviously settled in and feeding -- so I wouldn't take any chances risking such a lovely animal. Cheers, Neale>

Sick Elephant Nose  4/10/07
Hi!
<Hi Ashley, Pufferpunk here>
I have an elephant nose that I purchased about two to three months
ago.  He was doing well until today.  I turned on the lights and found him resting in the plants near the bubble wall at the back of the tank.
<Unless you have some kind of plastic tube to observe this fish, that's what it will do mostly--hide.  They are generally not open-swimming fish & only come out to eat.>
I thought he was dead!  I used my net to try to get him and he
moved in the tank.  He looks a little thin, doesn't seem to eat much and is very unbalanced.
<Probably starving to death.  This is the #1 cause of death in these fish.  They will only eat worms & prefer live.>
Since he was resting near the bubbles, he had small bubbles on his body but after they "popped" I noticed that he had a small yellow-ish spot at the base of one of his "side" fins (I call them the swimmer fins... or arm fins... whichever is more helpful).  He is about three inches and the spot is about the size of an uncooked couscous ball and roughly the same in color.  All of the other fish seem fine (Mollies, Gouramis, Pleco and two Iridescent sharks).
<You don't mention the size of your tank but do you have any idea yow large iridescent sharks get???
[IMG] http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/Pufferpunk/Other%20Fish/iridescentsharks.jpg[/IMG] >
The water quality is good and partially changed weekly.
<Good means nothing to us.  Best to post exact parameters, when asking for help.>
What would you say is the diagnosis? What are possible methods of treatment?  Having accidentally used "quick cure", I am scared to use most medications.  (He survived without incident in this case).  I did increase the water temperature, added a "therapeutic" amount of aquarium salt and performed a water change.
<These fish will not appreciate any amount of salt.  They come from soft water conditions.  The Quick Cure may have irritated his skin.  I'd do a 50% water change & add Melafix.  Go to your LFS & get live blackworms.  Rinse thoroughly in a brine shrimp net & throw out any that look dead. Put them into a worm cone feeder, he'll find them.  All your fish will love them too! You can store the worms in a shallow container with holes on top & 1/4" of water.  Rinse daily.  Hopefully it's not too late.  Some fish, once in starvation mode, won't eat.>
My nephews are attached to "Big Al", as are my husband and me!  Please advise!
<Good luck with Big Al, I hope he makes it!  ~PP>
Thank you, Ashley

Monogeneans from the gills of Mormyrid fishes
Dear Profesor,
<Blahoua>
I hope you will understand this message easily; my English is quite poor.
<No worries>
I am called BLAHOUA KASSI Georges. I am a doctorate of the university of Cocody-Abidjan (Ivory Coast). I undertake my research in Laboratory of Hydrobiology. I just red in the internet one of your publications which title is: “The Elephantfishes, family Mormyridae, in Aquariums My topic concerns the Monogenean from the gills of Mormyrid fishes.
Concerning the bibliography, I have some difficulties because I don't have any previous publications. I will be duly grateful you send me publications on “Gills Monogenean parasites from Mormyrid fishes”. You can also give me names and e-mails of some persons who have worked on my topic that you know.
Doing so you will help me a lot in my research works.
Best wishes in 2005.
Sincerely yours.
<I suspect you don't have easy access to large library collections as well do here. Where would I send this material? Bob Fenner>
BLAHOUA KASSI GEORGES
Address postale : University of Cocody, UFR Biosciences,
LABORATORY OF HYDROBIOLOGY
22 BP 582 Abidjan 22 (Coast of Ivory)

Dead elephant nose
I bought an elephant nose about a month ago and lost him 3 wks ago, after reading your information on them, I wish I would have had the feeding test done, then I would have known not to buy him, he would not eat and got skinnier and skinnier, it was horrible, I brought him to the pet store, and he wouldn't eat for them either, they treated him for internal parasites for a wk in a half and he still didn't look good.
<Likely too far gone from the process of (likely chemical) collection in the wild, starving, poor water quality from there through shipping, handling... Happens to whole shipments at times>
So from what I read what you have wrote, do you have any ideas in what I could do to keep my elephant nose alive, when I buy one in the near future. Do you have any idea to why he wouldn't eat, because I did ask them how long was he here before I bought him and they said 3 wks, and he look good, apparently not or he would have ate. Also my water was good where it should be, so I can't figure why he wouldn't eat?
<Morymyrids find aquatic worms almost irresistible... try blackworms, tubificids... if the specimen/s don't take these, I would leave them at the shop>
If you could help me it would be appreciated, I don't know any where else to turn to there is not a lot of people that know about these fish.
<There is considerable known about their esoteric biology, but not much popularized re their practical husbandry... Many die from jumping out (for lack of an adequate aquarium cover) and metal poisoning from errant medicine treatment for instance... Easily avoided>
Thanks, Sincerely
Shelley
<Bob Fenner>

Elephant Nose With His Trunk Bitten Off
Thank you so much for letting us know. We will set up a dedicated tank for the turtle. As for the elephant-nose, we could use a little further advice. He looks pretty bad - he has a big red splotch next to his nose on one side, and the nose itself is white and fuzzy. It is so sad. So, based on what you wrote, I guess he has both a bacterial as well as a fungal infection. How can I treat him and help him to get better?
< Put him in a hospital tank with clean water and a place for him to hide. Not too bright. Treat with Nitrofuranace as per the directions on the package. This medication treats both infections.>
I know many medicines are not good to put in a tank with an elephant- nose. Is there anything we can do to ease his pain and help in heal?
< These fish are sensitive to the copper in many ich medications. This is not a problem with antibiotics. Keeping the water clean will help a lot.-Chuck> Thanks in advance. Rebecca and Sal

Elephantnose trtmt....   3/24/06
I found some Furan-2 Capsules, so do you think this is safe for my little Elephantnose?
Should use full dose as per directions?
<Yes>
(Furan-2 Directions - Contains 2 furan based compounds to combat a variety of gram positive and negative bacteria. Effective against gill disease, mouth fungus, fin and tail rot, dropsy, furunculosis and black molly disease. Use one tablet per 10 gal. daily for up to four days.)
<250 mg. per ten gallons of system water, yes>
  Also, I have 4 DAY and 6 week old Boesemanni Rainbow fry in the tank (waiting for their tank to finish cycling) can I use this med or should I just wait until they are moved out.
<I'd move these first>
(Mr. Elephantnose is getting the spots –bacterial gray-wht spots- he started to break out the other day, I use Melafix, which only held for a few days- this morning it is back and bigger. And I think this all came from one of my large Rainbows,- see pic - he has Gill Disease and he has been treated 8x's just can't kill it all off. (any ideas, already tried PP, but he just did more damage to himself but trying to jump out out the holding tank and ramming into the lid.
FYI - My Tank:60
3 - Rummynose Tetra
2 - Cardinal Tetra
2 -Yoyo Loach
3 -4” Boesemanni Rainbowfish (1 female, 2 males)
1 – 5” Elephantnose
1 – Candy Striped Pleco
1 – Golden Algae eater
Eheim pro 2026, 1-Ebo-Jager 250 watt heaters,1 Coralife Turbo Twist 6x 18w,1 Rena 400 air pump, sand/gravel mix bottom, with live plants, drift wood, and stones.
PH 8.0
No2 0
<Should be zip... this is way toxic>
No3 0 - .05
NH4 0
KH  161
GH  35
I do a weekly water change of 1/3 or more water along with cleaning filter.
What am I doing wrong?
<I would not use the "Fix"... and you should investigate the water quality needs/ranges, compatibility of these fishes... not a good mix>
Thank you again for all of your help.  Lesley
<Bob Fenner>

Furan compounds - 03/14/2005
I must ask one question if I may. Where does one fine Nitrofuranace? I have looked all over the internet and I would love to have some on hand just in case it is needed. I didn't know you had a post until just now, and I am not sure how to post on it if/when need to ask for advice.
Thank you again.
Lesley
<Ahh, search for either Nitrofuran or Furanace... or even "Furan compounds".
Bob Fenner>

Thank you for your help, I will rush out and buy some.
PS.  I was also reading up on some of what people have to say about their Elephantnose being a bully, my experience is yes, typically when they are coming into adolescences.  As you can see from my pictures, my guy is very small.  He was only 3" when I got him.  He is about 5" now, two years later. As he is getting older, he bullies my large 6" Rainbow around, yoyo loaches, and others.  He will boot their behinds right out of there own hiding spot or just boot/ram them because.  However, I don't see it as any big deal, they are territorial and I think it comes with any fish.  Sometimes my yoyo loach won't even budge; after a while, Mr. Elephantnose moves on.  During feeding the same thing will happen, he knows when food is coming. (As you saw in pictures) and he is not going to starve because of some big fish.
LOL.
Anyhow, finding out that you know a lot about Elephantnoses, I am very excited about finding a med that will work.  Right now, when needed, I use Melafix, which works just ok.  I used to use ECO-Revive - just can't seem to find it on-line any longer through Fish-vet. One of my fishes in my tank I believe has gill flukes and Mr. Elephantnose may have contacted them.
<Mmm, usually these trematodes don't span so far twixt host groups>
He has been flashing and then the spot where he is was rubbing (on his backside) he breaks out in white fluff.  Melafix has only helped with the fluff I am sure. He hasn't been rubbing since, but this is the second time it has happen in all of the two + years I have had him, and both outbreaks were within 6 weeks time, so I am only waiting. (2 weeks to go?)  This is how I found you.
Anyhow, I am just rambling, Thank you again for the info, and if you have any other info you can help me with, wonderful, I will take it.
Lesley
<My little knowledge re Mormyrids rests mainly at either ends of the spectrum of commercial/wholesale handling and physiology... Bob Fenner>

Elephant nose with white patches - 03/09/2006
Hi
  I have had an Elephant Nose for four years. In the past couple of months he has been developing white patches which do go away after a couple of days, but then reappear after a couple of weeks. The white patches go from his nose and head all the way down his back, and a small patch on the underside. They are smooth and not dotty or raised at all, and the strange thing about it is that the patches always appear the same, the edges are very regular, and symmetrical to both sides of the fish. He doesn't appear to behave a lot differently when he has it, although he tends to hide away behind his rock a lot less than when he doesn't have the white bits.
   <Have seen such recurring issues... invariably they are rooted in inappropriate environment>
  The closest information I can find is that the patches appear where I think the fish has electrical receptors for mating, but not sure if this is connected.
  Do you have any idea what this could be and why it's happening?
    Thanks,
  Jenny.
<Is your water quality suitable for this species? Is stress otherwise minimized? Bob Fenner>

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