Fish Disease... A. leucosternon   12/14/08 Dear Crew, After researching carefully, I am unable to identify the presenting condition of this Powder Blue Tang. The symptom onset was eight weeks ago and very sudden. The fish has been in an aquarium for three years. The fish is quarantined and remains bright, alert, active and feeding. <Good> I've attached some hi-res photos to offer you a closer look. <I see these> If you have an interest or experience to share in this matter, I'd be grateful. Regards, Greg Danos Owner / Operator Urban Aquarium, Inc. Anaheim, CA 92806 www.urbanaquarium.com <Mmm, well... considering that the fish presents as damaged only on the one side, the length of time in captivity, its apparent good health otherwise... I would guess (with some confidence) that this is an issue that started with some sort of physical injury... that has developed as a secondary, likely bacterial issue... How to proceed? On a few fronts. I would move this fish back to a main display that has rock et al. to pick on at its leisure, and try bolstering what it does eat with vitamins and HUFA supplementation (e.g. Selcon), and use a cleaner (my choice, a Lysmata species shrimp) to keep the wound clean, AND avail yourself of the benefits of "mud" filtration in the system, have palatable macro-algae present (perhaps a Gracilaria sp.)... and if available, lace the foods with the antibiotic Chloramphenicol (Chloromycetin) should your veterinarian be willing to prescribe this to you for this use. I have seen similar wounds "heal" with time (months) going by. Bob Fenner>

Re: Fish Disease... A. leucosternon  12/14/08 Bob, <Hook 'em Danos!> Thank you kindly. I will implement your recommendations pronto. Your Fan and "Student" for 10 years, Sincerely, Greg Danos <Ahh! Glad to assist your efforts. BobF>

Re: Acanthurus leucosternon mistake... compounding... need to read... Hyaku!   11/30/08
Hi again,
I'm afraid that I improperly quarantined my tang, and he might have marine ich.
<This, and a few other species, are indeed very hard to rid of this protozoan>
cannot tell for sure if he has it or not, but there are small white dots on his fins and maybe on his body but they are really really small. To somebody looking at him they would probably think it was a sort of acne; but you would have to be closely looking at him, not just a glance. To be safe I put all the fish in the QT tank and turned the heat gradually up to 81 days over the course of the day.
<Mmm... not high enough to be of use...>
I bought some rid-ich at the store (only ich remover they had) and read the directions.
<... and this; formalin and Malachite Green, treatment is not generally effective... and quite toxic>
It says that it is safe to use on "scaleless" fish and some inverts ( I do not have inverts, jus thought it would be worth mentioning). The puffer seems to be a little sick also. His right eye is a little cloudy- greenish cloudy. And his left eye is cloudy white in one spot.
<... could be a pathogen or just exposure to the Kordon product...>
I feel like I am in way over my head with this saltwater stuff. Do I wait 4-6 weeks from the start of treatment or the start of seeing no cysts?
<My friend... you need to read... and quickly...>
It says when treating for ich to treat for three days after no visible signs of cysts occur- but then want? Do I wait and see if it comes back and start over? I do not want to start treatment before I know all of this because I don't want to injure/ kill my fish. I hope in this hobby the beginning is the toughest place to start, then it gets more enjoyable. I almost forgot to thank you guys for all the info and quick responses!!
Thanks,
Will
<Have just skipped down. Start here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm
scroll down to "Parasitic Disease", particularly parasitic tanks...
then onto Cryptocaryon...
and then to Quinine use...
and quickly. Bob Fenner>

Re: Acanthurus leucosternon mistake  11/30/08
Thanks bob.
I have not used the rid-ich because I was afraid it could be toxic to some of the fish.
<Ahh, you are wise here>
Would freshwater baths work for the ich and help the puffers eyes.
<Mmm, no>
Do you know where I can get Methylene blue?
<On the Net assuredly... a few brands are sold by most all the major etailers... B>
Thanks,
Will

Re: Acanthurus leucosternon mistake  11/30/08
That was literally a super quick reply. What do you recommend for the ich then?
<... that you read where you were initially referred to... I would go the Quinine cpd. route... time is slipping... make that sliding way fast... into the future.>
I'm afraid to use any medications. It seems that I'm just sitting around doing nothing.
<I concur. You apparently are>
To help with the ich would I raise the temperature and lower the specific gravity in the display and QT tank or just the display.
<Too late, too little...>
The only fish that seems "sick" is the puffer. The powder blue tang has the white spots, but other than that his behavior is normal. The lionfish doesn't seem to care that he has moved, he still swims around and tries to intimidate his reflection. The eels seem fine. They both had their heads out of their rock. Do you know what I can do for the puffer and the tang?
<Yes>
I'm thinking of using the rid-ich in a dip/bath as mentioned in one of your FAQ's and putting the lionfish and eels back in the display since the ich might not have been transferred from the tang to the ground if he was only in there for a matter of hours, but I don't know if this is true. Will Methylene blue help relax the fish and make them calmer?
<Yes also>
I just want them to get healthy again.
<I understand... read. B>
Thanks for all your help/advice,
Will

Re: Acanthurus leucosternon mistake  11/30/08
I am getting freaked out because i found parasitic diseases, then "in marine tanks" but that's just a FAQ section and i cannot find anything on Quinine use"
<Ahh, let me help you... here: http://wetwebmedia.com/quinmedfaqs.htm
You should learn to/use the search tool, found on all pages.>
I am going to perform a dip for about seven minutes on all the fish (separately) with Methylene blue and water to calm them down and to hopefully buy them some time.
<Mmm, likely more stressful than useful...>
thanks for all your info,
will
<Will, a good path to take all a step at a time here... Do consider the
Chloroquine Phosphate... B>

Re: Acanthurus leucosternon mistake  11/30/08
I also and a question about dips/baths. When using Methylene blue and fresh water, is that the complete make up of the bath? Or is it added to saltwater and then the fish go in?
thanks,
Will
<Just the dechloraminated freshwater and Methylene Blue my young friend.
B>

Re: Acanthurus leucosternon mistake  12/1/08
I looked it up on fishchemical.com and it is $125 for a kg.
<...! You' don't need a kilogram>
I'm only 16 and don't have that kind of money right now and neither do my parents. I went to my local fish store and they had some products I would like to get your opinion on. First is Copper Cure II by Aquatrol, Inc. I know copper can be toxic to tangs and some other marine fish. Second is Quick Cure by Aquarium Products.
<... See WWM re... the ingredients... all covered>
Third is Nox-Ich the people at the LFS said this is what they use, but I trust you guys more than them- it says use half dose on scaleless fish, so that's kinda a bad sign. There's also the rid-ich+ i could use half dose, but i don't want to take any chances. Only now do i realize the importance of a good QT tank.
<Ah yes>
I feel like a smoker who is surprised that he got lung cancer, with all the warnings out there and all. I did do a Methylene blue bath, but if it's just going to stress them out more then that's out. The puffer does seem better after the bath though, he is swimming around the QT tank now.
<Good... baths can be efficacious, IF you can move the afflicted livestock on to new/non-infested settings afterwards>
Thanks bob/WWM crew,
will
<... Please... don't write with these sorts of questions until you've read what is posted on WWM... this is all gone over and over. I fear by the time we "chat" via the Net... your livestock will be gone. Bob Fenner>

Re: Acanthurus leucosternon mistake... compounding... refuses to read  12/01/08
I treated with half strength rid-ich+ and there practically gone.
<...>
So dips are ineffective if They go back into the QT tank they were being held in for treatment? If that's the case would I be able to add Methylene blue directly to the QT tank to calm the fish down if I need to? Will it be safe while using rid-ich+?
Thanks,
Will
<Don't write... READ. There is just too much (again!) that needs to be made known here... and not sufficient time/means of teaching you through this process of asking next, next... B>

Powder Blue Tang and parasites, parasitized sys.  10/22/08
 Hi,
<Marcia>
I have yet another question for you about powder blue tangs and parasites. I bought my PB tang about three months ago. He is housed in a 55 gallon tank.
<... too small>
(Yeah, I know. The arrangement is temporary. I'm setting up a 130 for him.)
<Likely should have waited>
Tankmates include a pair of gold head sleeper gobies, a small damsel, a small algae blenny, a few small hermit crabs, and a sea urchin. Tank is well established, has a 4+ inch sand bed and a moderate amount of live rock.
Ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are negligible, pH 8.2, temperature 81, salinity 1.022,
<Too low...>
lots of water movement. I did lots of reading before buying the tang, so I pretty much knew what I was getting into with this fish. He was the last fish added to the tank, and I do not intend to add any others.
I am feeding mysis shrimp and two kinds of Nori. Food is soaked in garlic.
The tang was in good condition at time of purchase. He eats well, is full-bodied, and still has lots of "sparkle."
<Good>
Of course, I knew it would likely happen sooner or later. One morning I looked, and the PB tang had several spots of ich. A few days later, he began to have tiny bumps all over his skin. Today I noticed a few gray spots (~2 mm. diameter) on the anal fin and the body in that region. It seems to me that the bumps and the white spots are different stages of the same thing, but the gray spots are not something I have not seen before. Possibly a secondary disease?
<Define "disease"...>
So here's my question. Assuming the whole problem is parasitic,
<Is not... a large part/element of "the whole problem" is environmental>
is it possibly to control disease like this in the main tank effectively, without using medication?
<Mmm, yes>
Shortly after the fish began to show symptoms, I added a UV filter to the system, hoping that that would help.
<A bit... to improve water quality>
The parasites continued to multiply. Since then, I have added a diatom filter with an 800 gph pump.
<Shouldn't be run continuously>
It is my understanding that the diatom filter does help with ich, but do you think it could arrest the outbreak once it is in full force?
<It cannot>
The UV filter continues to run as well.
I do not have a hospital tank set up at this time, and I do not really have the financial resources to buy much new equipment right now. Can you make any additional recommendations?
Marcia
<Yes... read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/parasittksfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Powder blue quarantine    9/20/08
Hi Crew
<Wayne>
Couldn't find an answer to my question on the site. Hope you can help me out.
<Me too>
I just bought a 4" PBTang...been at the LFS for 2 weeks and looks healthy.
Have him in a 40 gal QT. My question is about feeding. I plan to feed dried Nori, red algae, and Gracilaria (all soaked in Selcon)..as well as occasional Form 1 & 2 pellets, and New life Spectrum pellets. I also have this "Jungle" anti-bacteria pellet fish food. I've read about the beneficial bacteria that reside in the guts of PBTs. Based on this....should I not feed this anti-bacterial food?
<Mmm, don't think this will be an issue. The infauna of use are actually Protozoans mostly>
What if the fish displays a bacterial infection...would you still not feed this food?
<Such "infections" are actually exceedingly rare... How to put this a bit differently than usual... By the time such microbes "show up" it is almost always too late... they're mainly decomposers, not pathogens per se>
Thanks a ton. You guys/gals are great!
<Mmm, myself, fair to middling. Cheers, BobF>

Powder Blue "pimples"  7/3/08
Hi and happy 4th of July to everyone at WWB.
<?>
I'm writing in regards to a problem I have with Peanut, my Powder Blue Tang. I bought him a little over a month ago and immediately put him in a 40gal QT. I observed him for a period of 3 weeks and I didn't notice any problems, no parasites, no signs of disease, eating frozen food and the dry algae sheets. The fish is about 4 to 5 inches in length. Then I thought everything was great and put Peanut in my 150gal FOWLR. He acclimated very well and none of my other fish bothered him. If anything he bothered my Foxface at first, but then they became friends. A week later however, I noticed something very odd. He had what looked like pin sized pimples all over his body. They were not white like ich and it looked like they were under the skin. He didn't seem bothered, still very active and eating like a pig. I waited hoping these "pimples" would go away but they didn't so now Peanut is back in the QT, except I have no idea what is wrong or how to medicate for this problem. If these pin sized pimples were white, I'd say ich, although none of my other fish have it and the tank has been ich free for 6 months. Still, anything is possible. Any idea what these are? They're only on the body, nothing showing up on any of the fins.
My tank parameters:
Ammonia and Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 20
pH: 8.3
Density: 1.025
Other tank mates: 5" Foxface, 4" Picasso Trigger, 4" Niger Trigger, 4" Yellow Canary Wrasse, 2" Juvi Queen Angel. Again, there was no aggression at all. The Niger is the most aggressive in the tank but it never bothered the tang.
Thanks,
Peter
<Mmm, likely sporozoans... not easily treated... Could be encysted worms... these might be treated with a vermifuge. Bob Fenner>

Powder Blue Tang/Health 3/3/08
I just recently purchased a Powder Blue Tang about a week ago. He is very hardy, started eating the first day, I have him in my hospital tank cause of previous problems with the Powder Blue getting parasites, sure enough he has them,
<Not surprising.>
not bad and is being treated with med's an 2 Cleaner Wrasses. The Powder Blue is one of my top fish but have never had no luck with them.
<You and many, many more aquarists.>
I just recently got rid of my Gold Rim Tang , which I had for about 3 years so I can successfully accomplish acquainting a healthy Power Blue. I've read that the Powder Blue is from South Africa an also Indo. Is there any way to tell them apart?
<Do not believe so. Most are collected from the Indo Pacific.>
I also read that the Powder Blues from South Africa are a lot more hardy, is there any truth in that?
<No. Do read here and linked files above, will give you a some knowledge of what it takes to successfully keep one. In future queries, please do a spelling and grammar check before sending. Just do not have the time to correct/edit queries before posting.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/powdbluetg.htm James (Salty Dog)>

Powder Blue Tang Disease Id    2/24/08 Hello. Was hoping someone could help me identify what is wrong with the Powder Blue Tang I recently acquired. I got him, put him in quarantine (37 gal. tank, wanted it big enough for when I get big fish), and thought it was just some scrapes on his side but a friend that was over said it was body rot. <...?> He is eating well (algae and omnivore flakes, seaweed sheets, mix of frozen enriched brine/Mysis soaked with extra vitamins) and is not trying to scrape on anything (there is some pieces of live rock in the tank from my 2 yr established tank that has a couple strands of live feather algae for him on it). He is picking at the algae and the rock like normal. Please take a look at the pic attached and let me know what it is and what is the best way to treat if anything needs to be done. It was suggested I try garlic, would that be good to add as well? Any help is appreciated! Thanks! Nicole <These markings are due to injury (handling... fingers really) during capture, transport et al. stress... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/powdbluetg.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Powder Blue Tang/Disease...Another Sad Tail 7/19/07
Thanks Guys, <And gals>
Kick butt website by the way! Just a short scenario for you, and I would LOVE to save my fish here!
I'm on day #3 with this Powder Blue, and it came down with ich.
<Not surprising. A difficult fish to keep.>
I didn't quarantine, (I know, stupid move ). I added a Scopas Tang at the same time,
<Another bad move.>
once again no quarantine,
<And again.>
and it got ich as well. Both are eating like crazy, but I got them in a qt anyways, 10 gallon only,
<Too small for these guys, big time stress coming up. At least get another 10 gallon tank and separate them.>
temp is 80, conditions are good.
<Good? Not with two tangs in a ten gallon tank.>
In my regular tank, levels are good, temp is more 77-78.
(reef tank by the way)
What should I do at this point?
<I would pray.>
I was told to lower salinity, raise my water temp, frequent water changes (how much?) and haven't done these yet. Garlic in the foods is all I have done so far...
<All this is gone over in the linked files posted below.>
I'm also adding small doses of Rid Ich in my QT.
<Much better off using Copper Safe than this.>
All other fish in my display tank are ok. They have had ich in the past, and I QT'ed them for awhile, put them back, and they are fine. Must have immunity?
Am I on the right track here?
<Aaron, you do not have much time, especially for writing back/forth.
Do read here and related linked files above, and act. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm>
Your help is appreciated, just trying to save some fish over here!
Thanks in advance,
<Good luck, and you're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Aaron Wise

Re: Was: Rapid Breathing Emperor... Now PBT dis., Crypt  - 03/12/07
Bob,  It has been about two months since my last e-mail.  I had observed my powder blue tang flash on several occasions
<Mmm, a natural behavior to extents... not necessarily portentous...>
and decided to wait it out having not seen any spots present.  following my last e-mail I have not observed it flashing and believed I was in the clear. I have had it for approximately 5 months now and have been feeling pretty good about my chances with him.  It has put on weight and is a very aggressive feeder on over a dozen different foods all soaked in Selcon and Zoe.
<Good>
  Having read all the reasons that they are not suited for captivity, I chalked up my apparent success to luck and believed that I may have happened upon a good specimen that was going to adapt to life in a glass box.  About a month ago I began to acclimate my reef to metal halide lighting and this is where I believe things took a turn for the worst.  Immediately he began aggressively attacking his reflection in the glass.
<Yes... this A. leucosternon can be a very social OR extremely territorial animal with its own kind>
His face would get dark black and his eyes would turn bright gold.  It sounds funny but he would get a crazy look in his eyes.  In retrospect, this indicated that the fish had not in fact adapted to life in a glass box, and now leads me to believe that it probably never will as so many PBT's before him.  As I'm sure you've guessed he has now broken out in a full blown case of crypt. My emperor angel had a few spots and the two clown fish haven't shown any signs.  The crypt is cycling right now so no spots are present.
<"Are elsewhere">
I am going to tear down my reef tomorrow to move these fish to a hospital tank.  I have three cycled BioWheels ready and will be purchasing a tank in the morning.  
<Good planning>
All fish were quarantined in a hex aquarium for a minimum of 2 months back to back with the powder blue being the final edition.  the shape of this tank is not suited to treat these four fish at once. I have a 20gal.  Would that be too small?
<Mmm...>
The tang and angel are both about 3.5'' and the clowns are 2'' and 1''.
<Will have to do. Add some PVC parts for habitat...>
I hate to use copper on these fish because I believe that it kills the intestinal fauna which leads to nutritional problems like HLLE later in life.  What is your feeling on this?
<Is so, though these intestinal fauna can be easily re-constituted... and the use of vitamins, "muds" can forestall...>
Unfortunately,  copper seems to be the most effective cure in my experience.  Do you have any experience with the transfer method combined with hypo salinity?
<Yes>
Is this a viable option in your estimation?
<Not dependably>
I am also planning on a 2 month fallow period which I have read will not result in total eradication,
<This is correct>
but I read one study that indicated that line degradation occurs after multiple cycles of crypt and without any new additions to a system over the course of 15-20 cycles crypt loses its ability to reproduce and will result in an "ich free" system.
<Also so>
In your opinion is there any merit to this claim, or will ich always be present in my system.
<Can be eliminated entirely, but in actual cases, most always retained as a subclinical infestation...>
I guess my concern is that once returned to the display my PBT will stress out under the metal halides and over time become reinfested.
<Too likely so>
  The fact that he still attacks his reflection leads me to believe he always will and since releasing him to the wilds of Minnesota is not an option the stress of it might be the death of him.  Although I suppose this is a little premature.  He still has to live through the copper treatment!
Any words of wisdom from the wise are always appreciated!
<I would definitely try... covering all sides but the one viewing panel with paper or such... this may well solve the "reflection" issue>
Thanks for reading and responding to my ramblings,
Jim
<Steady on my friend. The road may seem long ahead of you... but it is your path. BobF>

Tang parasite?... Not reading re researching WWM first, sending too large files...   1/29/07 I bought a very nice looking powder blue tang 11 days ago that has been in my 10g Qtank since I brought him home.  I started him on a half dose preventative treatment on Coppersafe. <Mistake>   I didn't notice a single thing on him until about the 5th or 6th day.  I noticed a suspect area on his left side under his pectoral fin (I think where his stomach is).  After looking at it a while, it seemed like it was something hanging off of him and he would scratch at it from time to time too.  I upped the dose to about 90%(scared to over do it), and the very next day the area had gotten noticeable worse to about what the picture shows. <... likely due to copper poisoning...>   The lighting looks funny because I was using a shop light to show it better. <Good note>   The tang has always eaten very well (mostly mysis shrimp and some formula 2-loves the mysis) and still is.  Water quality and temp have been good and consistent and he shows no other symptoms other than scratching and a little less color from time to time.  Oh, and there is a little area small black spots on the forward part of his anal fin (you can barely see it in the pic and the spots aft of the most fwd part of the fin were on the glass).  The pic shows the main suspect area pretty well.  Any idea what it is? <... your file is an order of magnitude larger than we request... And your answers and many more that you are not yet aware of are posted... on WWM. See the indices, search tool... re Acanthurus leucosternon, Tangs and Copper... Bob Fenner, disgusted>

Re: tang parasite?   1/29/07 Bob, I apologize for sending the large file, I forgot about it cause it's been a while. <And sorry for my apparent over-reaction... we only have ten megs of storage... and we went past it... all else is bumped till the buffer is cleared...>   I have been researching WWM using different key words, but I hadn't thought copper was a problem (based on a friend having tangs for years and the LFS), <Is with Acanthuroids... particularly soft-bodied species like the PBT and Achilles> and I couldn't find anything else like I was seeing, but I don't even know if I was using the right words.  I'm not sure if you got the image so here it is in a smaller size. <Thank you, did down-load and look at> I am looking again using your info, but any other help would greatly be appreciated. Thanks <I would not expose this specimen further to copper compounds... Perhaps a one-time formalin dip and move... And the administration of a general purpose anthelminthic... My choice? Praziquantel. Bob Fenner>

Re: tang parasite? FW dip Q.   2/4/07
after more consideration and a little improvement, I decided on a FW dip.  took my time balancing temp and ph.
I only let him go 3 minutes.  WWM is VERY right about the dip being so stressful on the owner, but I wanted to ask:  Is it normal for the fish to stop swimming and just lay down?
<Yes, very common>
he did that quite a few times and I would just prod him along with my hand, he would swim a little and then stop all tensed up and fall over on his side.  by the time 3 minute came around he wouldn't respond to stimulation from my hand and he was turning colors so I had to stop.
<BobF>

Powder Blue Tang, Ich   11/8/06
I have a 155 reef with 13 fish, and assorted corals and inverts, all levels great, but while out of town for 3 days (fish watched by LFS owner) my powder blue has a light (for the time being) case of ich.  I have not added anything for over a year, so my QT is gone.  My other fish seem unaffected,  the tang has had it for 4 days, I have been adding garlic to the food, but he  isn't getting better or worse. Will kick ich help the tang, or will it prevent only further spread.
< I cannot advise adding this to a tank with corals. While it may help the tang it may harm you inverts. Please research WWM for opinions on these "reef safe" products. >
And do I do freshwater dips, or would it be useless without a QT.  
< If you can catch the tang without inducing a lot of stress then it can help. >
He is still acting normal and eating great, but I want to do  whatever I can.
< This is one of those watch and see situations. I would suggest getting that QT up and running ASAP. If you can maintain optimal water conditions you may keep your fish healthy enough to fight off a minor outbreak, but prepare for trouble. Moving all fish to QT at the first sign of ich spreading may be your best bet. >
Thanks,
< You're welcome, and hope everything works out for you - Emerson >
Denise

Powder blue with ich... re-sent, same bat channel..    11/14/06
I have a 155 reef with 13 fish, and assorted corals and inverts, all levels great, but while out of town for 3 days (fish watched by LFS owner) my powder blue has a light (for the time being) case of ich.
<A common occurrence>
I have not added anything for over a year, so my QT is gone.  My other fish seem unaffected,  the tang has had it for 4 days, I have been adding garlic to the food, but he  isn't getting better or worse. Will kick ich help the tang,
<Not in the least. This product is an outright scam>
or will it prevent  only further spread.
<Neither, none of the above, nunc...>
  And do I do freshwater dips, or would it be useless  without a QT.  He is still acting normal and eating great, but I want to do  whatever I can.
Thanks,
Denise
<Mmm... a bunch to state, speculate... on the one proverbial hand, you could do the least/nothing... watch the Acanthurus for signs of further increasing infestation... to the other end of the scale... removing, treating all fishes... hoping that by allowing the main/display system to go fallow (sans fish hosts), the protozoan will die off or become so subsequently weakened as "not likely" to re-infest your fish livestock... All these and intermediate possibilities are posted, gone over on WWM BTW. Bob Fenner>
 

Wound or disease or both?  9-19-06 This Powder blue I have had for about 4 months.  It was at the LFS for about 3 months before I purchased it.  It has never had any health problems to my knowledge.  Can you determine from these pictures the ailment, if any? <Mmm, nope> I noticed this dark spot on its side 2 days ago. It seems to have occurred overnight.  Did it have a run in with some rock? Or the anemone?   <Maybe> Or is this some sort of disease? <If so... likely environmental... not nutritional, infectious, parasitic/pathogenic...> The last "change" I made was a 5 gallon water change last week. 90 gal reef tank <Too small> 1.021 <Too low> temp: 80-82 deg Nitrate/phosphate/nitrite/ammonia all equal zero. Lighting: MH and Actinic and moonlights 1 royal Gramma 1 black clown 1 blue damsel 1 sebae anemone (6 inches in diameter when fully expanded) 2 pieces of frogspawn 1 small blue mushroom colony 1 green star polyp 1 leather coral 70-80 lbs live rock Thanks so much for your help, Blake <Could be some sort of allelopathogenic effect... result of negative interaction twixt your H. crispa and the other cnidarians... my best guess... Cures? Improve water quality... use of chemical filtrants, add a refugium... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/powdbluetg.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Microsporidean Infection - Will it go away?   3/21/06
Hi Bob,
<Steve>
You have been such a great help! I recently got a small Powder blue tang that has been showing pimple-like bumps on its body - not salt grains (ich) and not dust-like (velvet). After researching your site, I'm pretty sure it's a microsporidean infection. My question is, while it is said that there is no cure for this, will it just go away or is the fish just doomed?
<Mmm, have seen such infestations live "with their host" for many years>
In your responses to the other related posts, you only mentioned that it's not infectious to other species nor is contagious.
Secondly, how long does it usually take for these bumps to develop?
<...?>
I'd like to figure out if it picked it up in my tank or already had it when I bought it from the store.
<This latter, assuredly>
I bought the PBT with a yellow tang at the same time so that they won't get too territorial. For the first few days they
were buddies, then the PBT would get annoyed and they'd flash their tails
now and then. Could these bumps be coming from stress maybe?
<To some extent>
Also, from your experience, how long does it take to go away?
<Sometimes months, other times, never.>
thanks again for your help. You've truly impacted the aquarist community for the better.
Steve
<There are some groups of fishes, my favorite example the serrasalmine fishes called Silver Dollars, that very often have these... and they often prove persistent. I would enjoy this fish, ignore the bumps. Bob Fenner>

Re: Microsporidean Infection - Will it go away? PBT dis.  - 03/22/06
Update on my PBT - Last night the white bumps turned into more or less white specks and white specks started showing up on its pectoral fins.
<Is likely the protozoan Cryptocaryon...>
Then this morning they looked black on the body but still white on the fins. As this is my first time dealing with this, I find myself second
guessing my initial diagnosis. Could it be ich,
<Most likely>
or black ich that I'm seeing instead of a microinfection or is this just part of the lifecycle for the microsporidean? The fish is less active today and swimming a little more wobbly but still eating Nori and picking at algae on the LR. His original darker full blue has faded into a much lighter powder blue and he's not picking on the other fish anymore, sometimes just hiding in the corner away from the other fish.
Sorry for bombarding you guys with these trivial questions - I feel like a nervous parent who's never seen their kid have a cold before. So a little reassurance or at least understanding of what's going on would be most helpful.
Just in case, since I only have a 10 gallon QT, I decided to move all my corals (I don't have that many, just some zoos, xenia, anemone, and candy cane) to the QT and leave the fish in the main tank with a some live rock in case I need to medicate. Did I misdiagnose or is this just part of the microsporidean lifecycle and I just have to wait it out?
Steve
<... is not likely a Microsporidean. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/powdbluetg.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner> 

Tang With Ich or Velvet or other?  12/15/05
Hello my wonderful WWM Team, you all are a true blessing!
I pour over your information like a wolverine ALL THE TIME to research new
tank inhabitants, care, disease, reef care, etc... I true database of information!  
Here we go.
Tank:
29 gallon
Bio & Carbon filters, Eclipse hood w/upgraded lighting and add-on
circulation unit.
About 20 lbs of Live Rock & additional live sand.
Tank Inhabitants (currently alive and well):
2 percula clown fish
1 firefish goby
1 clown goby
1 juvenile Powder Blue Tang
<... in a too small world... Really needs hundreds of gallons.>
1 Rose BTA
<If something goes wrong in such small confines...>
1 SPS Hammer
1 Blood Red Cleaner Shrimp
7 Hermit Crabs
8 Astrea Snails
5 Sand-Sifting Snails (Nass's)
I had recently purchased two juvenile clown gobies and a neon goby from my
LFS.
<Not to go in this same system I hope/trust>
This was exactly 18 days ago.  Sad to say I have not gathered enough
SW care equipment to have a quarantine tank (I know, I know!) - so I
acclimated my new tank inhabitants in the only tank I currently own.   
<You're learning... by fire>
The clown gobies fought with each other the first couple days, one becoming
very shy and elusive.  She used to hide a lot while the other fed (and/or he
chased her and they locked jaws a lot, I figured they were sorting things
out) but I did in fact observed her eating - have not seen her at all for
about 7 days now, was hoping she was still hiding in the LR eating the live
food that naturally resided there, but I fear she's gone (crab meal).  
<Only one should be kept here... remove the other if it's still about.>
The neon was very active and aggressively wanted to clean my powder blue
tang.  (The tang rarely sat still enough for the shrimp to clean him unless
he was with it in the rockwork).  So he was a great eater, very active, did
very "goby things" as I would call it.  Then one day (about three days ago)
I did not see him during feeding time front and center eating like a maniac.
I looked around, he was tucked in the LR and eating here and there, but not
like his true self.  I did not see him the next day.  Today during feeding
he must have just died because the crabs were cleaning the fresh carcass (I
could see the blue stripes still on him very vividly).  I am not sure what
he died of at all.  He acclimated and got along with everything so very well.
Well upon my daughter looking at the remains of the goby. She said, "What's
wrong with the tang?"  My heart sank - I ran over to the tank.  He has what
looks like and I can only describe as "chicken pox" - it does not look like
ich or marine velvet (to me) but can be either or.  How did he get it?
<Environmental to a large degree... perhaps a parasite, pathogenic input from the non-acclimated/new livestock...>
Could it have come over on the gobies?
<Yes>
The tang was "flashing" - rubbing up against the rockwork two days ago quite a bit (looking silly I thought - he
is quite the character, but I did not notice any spots on him then as I know
this can be a sign of a problem).  He didn't really have any "white dots" so
I looked up black spot - nope not that either.  And I am not sure if it is
even velvet.  They are grayish bumps all over his body.  On the dark areas
of his face, the spots look like white faded scars, on the light areas they
look like a soft gray spot.  His white fin on the bottom has what looks like
gray spots on it.  He is acting very normally, eating, swimming patterns,
etc. not getting aggressive towards anyone.  I checked my water params and
everything seemed normal on my end - but I am taking a sample to the LFS in
case I had some sort of error (double checking myself) and salinity is
perfect, temp is between 79-81 degrees (usual for my tank).
He is not presenting himself that I can see to the blood red shrimp - and
did not allow the neon goby to clean more than a few seconds (as he is so
active).  I heard both of these animals help with ich - is it just my tang is
too active to allow for a good cleaning?
<Mmm, no>
The tang has been in my tank for about 8 months without ever showing signs of sickness except for when I did
a large water change once (breathing very quickly - I literally held him in
front of the minimal eclipse hood flow I had so he didn't have to work so
hard to get flow over his gills.
<Good observation>
I held him for a few moments in the flow (he actually allowed me to), he was calm and seemed to catch his breath so
to speak and I released him from my one-handed cupping and he was fine after
that with no draw backs - don't know what that was about but he never
exhibited any spotting/discoloration that might have gone along with a
disease or infection.  Other than that, he has been a happy, healthy and
extremely friendly fish to all of his tank mates.
<Eight months is a good long time for this species in captivity in general... remarkable in this small setting>
He is very bumpy - almost pimply looking.  Like I said, appears to be a lot
like chicken pox all over his body.  They are dull-colored splotches, like I
said they discolor whatever color it was on.  It made the dark areas appear
to be light (like an old scar would be on a person), and light areas have a
gray tint.  It did not "coat the fish" as the velvet pics show - but had
defined spots/bumps.  I read and read and read through the tang disease and
other diseases and have not found something that fits this description (I
did try to do my research!).  I thought perhaps with the history of my
introduced inhabitants and their behavior/deaths might help you to help me.
<... you need a much larger system...>
I love my tang (aka: "Fat Head") and would do what's necessary to help him.
I have pre-mixed salt at home already with pH buffer missed as well that is
about 4 days old.  Any suggestions on what I can do now (yes, I am buying a
quarantine tank TODAY!)  I read you all don't favor copper treatments.  Any
other suggestions on how to treat the reef tank - and should I remove all
the other fish even tho they are showing no signs of the ich/velvet?
<Not a treatment per se... but barring moving this fish to a large, stable system with a good deal of cured live rock, possibly "mud filtration", there is not much that can/will "cure" it>
I am so afraid I don't know what I am diagnosing and I don't want to treat them, stress them,
<You are wise here>
then realize I have to treat them all over again for using the
wrong medications.  HELP!  Damage control!  (PS: I tried to take some
pictures of him, but he is never still and ends up being blurred and you
can't see anything. sorry I could not send them along with this request.)
Thanks in advance for any help in figuring out what this is and helping me
and my fishies - you all are THE BEST and I really appreciate all of the
hard work put into having WWM and your selfless contributions to fish-keeping society.  
Warm Regards and many hugs - Christine
<Thank you... am sure you've read my piece on Acanthurus leucosternon posted on WWM, and the accompanying FAQs files... I would review these again. Copper, formalin, other treatment are not efficacious here... this fish needs to be moved to better quarters... soon, to survive. Bob Fenner>

Mystery Malady? Hey Crew!  Need your help again!  Thanks for your advice! <Glad to be here for you! Scott F. with you today!> I have had this beautiful Powder Blue for 2 weeks now, he has been eating like a monster, and doing well with the other roommates. Parameters: Temp 82    75 gal. w/20 gal. sump/fuge growing Caulerpa; EV-240 skimmer; 140# LR, 4-5" fine substrate pH 8.2    Yellow tang, Picasso Trigger, Volitans Lion, Powder Blue tang NH3 0 NO2 0 NO3 20 <Water conditions sound good...At some point, a larger tank is in order for this crowd!> The last two days the Powder Blue has exhibited the discoloration shown in the photo, he has lost the black to his face.  These look like abrasions with some inflammation, but are difficult to visualize due to his speed. <I see...> They are on both sides, and various body parts including his face, which makes me think more along the lines of a fungal infection or such. I'm setting up a Hospital tank now and will QT him until further ID of problem.  Thanks again for your help! Ed Carter, RN, BSN, CCRN <Unfortunately, I didn't get the pic, so I'm compelled to take a guess here. Discolorations like you describe could be anything from a non-lethal malady like Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE), which generally is diet or environmentally-induced, to a more serious fungal infection, as you theorize. Usually, HLLE has a gradual onset of symptoms, so you may indeed be looking at some sort of fungal disorder. Are there any other symptoms? Lack of appetite? Heavy breathing? Obvious distress or discomfort shown by the fish? If you could try again with the picture, we might be better able to diagnose this malady. Until then, your quarantine procedure is correct. Keep the water quality high, feed carefully, and take note of further symptoms. I'd avoid any medications until you get a handle on just what this affliction may be. In some cases, these types of non-lethal disorders clear themselves up with the passage of time and a good clean environment. Hang in there! Regards, Scott F.>