True Percula question, hlth. mostly   8/23/07
Hi! Thanks for all the great info on your site, It has helped me alot
<No such word>
in my experience with Reefing!
<Ah, good>
Here is my situation, I recently bought a pair of mated true percula clowns. I had initially placed these fish on hold in the LFS due to my leaving town and that I had no room for a QT tank. So they spent a week there in the LFS system (they claim to run a low level of copper to treat ich).
<Mmm, such "low levels" (less than a constant physiological dose... let's say under 0.15 ppm free cupric ion or equivalent) do naught but poison livestock>
So I thought this was a preventative measure.
<Ah, no... only serve/s to weaken hosts... but does keep more fishes alive to sell, pass on their parasites...>
I then came in to pick up the clowns and the male would not eat very well. So they said they would treat them for 5 days with an antibiotic dip.
<? No.>
Treatment over, I watched them both eat like pigs, so I brought them home and now they are happy in my tank....
Here is my question, I have noticed on the male, that a couple of his fins, have streaks of missing color, and this is new. I do occasionally notice the female nipping at the male, but I don't want to miss read an illness and lose a nice pair of clowns. Am I missing something?
<Doesn't seem like it, no>
There are no spots on the clowns, no heavy breathing, eating well. All parameters are within normal limits (pH, temp, ammonia, Nitrite, nitrate, Ca, and Alk). They are in a 20H tank with approx 20 lbs of LR and a 20L sump.
<Wild Percula Clowns need more room than this... and frequently have "residual" health issues as you relate>
Thanks again for all the help!
Seth
<Please re-read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/part2.htm
the bottom of the page... Bob Fenner>

Sick Clownfish?   8/22/07
Hi Crew,
<Annie>
Just a quick but urgent question for you tonight. One of my ocellaris of 6 years developed two white spots: one just behind the first white bar and the other just behind the second white bar. That was two days ago. Today/this morning, the white "spots" weren't there but I noticed that area turned a fuzzy whitish and has migrated over the top/back of the ocellaris as well as toward the middle area. I've gone thru some of your FAQ and it's not ich.
<Agreed... likely equivalent to an "owee" or pimple in humans...>
Please advise as to whether I should remove it to a quarantine tank and treat immediately and with what?
<I would spiff up the system where it is... water change, add carbon, clean the skimmer... and leave the animal where it is>
My tank params as follows: 60 gal, SG 1.025, pH
8.0, temp 76.5 - 78.5 degrees, KH 11.0, Alk. 4.0. I have a skimmer going 27/7. Thank you for your help.
Annie
<Welcome. BobF>

Clown Fish disease URGENT  8/6/07
HI BOB: Thanks again for all your help. I have reviewed all your pages
<Wowzah!>
and want to be sure I am treating my clownfish correctly. I have 2 black clown fish in my 55 gallon tank.
<Wild-collected? Quarantined? Treated how thus far?>
I also have 2 Anthias, 5 snails, 12 hermits, live rock and a live sand bed and several corals. My water is good (ph 8.1, ammonia O, nitrates 0, alk 9.0, phosphates 0). I am running a chiller that keeps the temp stable at around 78 degrees. My clownfish have each developed small (less than 1mm) white patches on the front of their dorsal fin and the underlying tissue seems to disappearing. One of them has also developed a very small white patch on its underbelly. Behaviourally, they seem as energetic as ever and seem to be eating fine. They have had the spots for about one week. It does not look to me like Ich, the white is not in specks and is not all over the fish, just these distinct areas. In addition to your site, I visited the national fish pharmacy site and based on both, was wondering if this could be some type of fin rot?
<?... is a symptom... not a cause... Like your having a "cough"... many probable etiologies>
I have set up a hospital tank following your guidelines and am hoping you could advise me as to treatment? NFP has a product called Fungus Pro I was thinking of using -do you have any other suggestions?
<Yes, but all are posted>
I really like these little guys and I don't want to lose them. Please can you help? Much appreciated...
BTW, my anthias do not seem to be at all infected. Thanks again - Lindsey.
<Please (re) read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/clnfshdisart.htm
and the linked files above and in place where you lead yourself. Bob Fenner>

Clown Fish disease URGENT Part 2  8/6/07
Hi Bob: I have been scanning WWM all day for help with the problem I emailed you about earlier - namely, the fact that I am incapable of identifying what is causing the spotting/rotting on my 2 black clowns. There are many LFS here in Los Angeles (but I would love to have a local recommendation/endorsement, if you have one) so I visited the one that has consistently given me the least inaccurate advice. They advised a combination of Mardel's Coppersafe and Mardel's Maracyn-Two, so I have started on that program. I still need to get a copper test kit, but the store had closed by the time I remembered, so I'll pick one up tomorrow, but I did follow the directions pretty slavishly.
<Good>
My hospital tank is a 12 gallon Eclipse (with the carbon removed from the filter) and the clowns seem fine in there and are active and eating. In the stark light of the empty tank, I can clearly see how their dorsals have been eaten away where the white spots were, and there is another white spot I hadn't noticed previously on one of the fish's side fins. A couple of things I failed to mention in my last post: I feed them twice daily with frozen mysis and some brine shrimp, as well as a product called arcti-pods from Reef Nutrition. Also, before I put the chiller on the tank, there was a period of about one week where the tank temp exceeded 84 degrees. There were no wild fluctuations, because it didn't cool off much at night, but the tank was too hot for the corals so I put a chiller on it.
I didn't quarantine the fish and am always always ALWAYS going to quarantine in future - they had been in the main tank for one month without any problems. So some questions?
- am I on the right track with the Coppersafe/Maracyn?
<Is one of a series of "shotgun" approaches... But a good one... and w/o microscopic exam....>
- how long do I keep them in the QT?
<Not quarantine, but trtmt. now... Depending on what you think you may be treating for, two weeks...>
- the Coppersafe says it is a one time treatment,
<Really?>
but do I add more with water changes?
<Please... see WWM re copper use... http://wetwebmedia.com/curatuse.htm
and the linked files above>
or do I start to take it out of the water with carbon, and, if so, when?
I have read tons and tons of stuff, but it is still confusing to a beginner - and since you have denied me my Mandarin (heh heh) I must be able to hang on to my clowns.
Please help!!!! Thanks so much. BTW -Is there a donation or something I can make? It seems that you give a lot of great advice for free, and if you have a charity or cause I would love to donate in appreciation. Lindsey.
<Our Amazon "begging bowl" is at the bottom of each page. RMF>

Spitting clownfish... fdg., hlth.   7/31/07
Dear WWM Crew,
<Shannon>
Well, I started my first marine tank about 8 weeks ago, after reading everything on the subject I could lay eyes on. The tank has cycled, with ammonia, nitrites, and nitrate all back down to 0, and my SG at 1.024. I figured I was ready for my first fish. I bought a percula clown fish on 7/14/07. To date, the fish hasn't eaten. I've tried frozen mysis shrimp, live bloodworms, Cyclop-Eeze, and Nori on a clip. I've also tried all of those plus fresh garlic juice, and all of those plus something called Entice. Nada.
<Mmm, not good... Was this a wild-collected specimen?>
When the clown's feces was white and stringy and she still wasn't eating at the end 9 days, I guessed internal parasites based on your FAQs.
<Possibly>
I put her in a QT dosed with General Cure.
<Mmmm, "GENERAL CURE contains 125 mg Metronidazole, 13 mg Copper Sulfate, and 8 mg Trichlorofon." Is VERY general and quite toxic.>
Your FAQ recommends Hex-out,
<Just Metronidazole...>
but I couldn't find that anywhere. After a cycle of the General Cure, no more white poop, but she still won't eat.
<May be off-feed due to the effects of the copper, organophosphate...>
She'll suck up mysis shrimp or Cyclop-Eeze, but she'll immediately spit them back out. She'll chase down the same mysis shrimp over and over trying to eat it, but each time she sucks it up, she spits it out immediately after. Help! It's got to be a terribly bad sign if my first fish dies. What do I do? Does she need dentures? Pureed shrimp? A straw? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Shannon
<Mmm, the easiest, most likely chance for improvement here overall is to suggest you get, place a piece/quantity of cured live rock... to improve water quality, add ready food items. Do please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/clnfshdisart.htm
And the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Nano Tank. On The Watch for Illness...  – 07/03/07
Hello again,
<Hi there! Scott F. with you today!>
Here's an update..... I went away this past weekend, and during that time there was a power loss, and my fish went w/o filter, heater, skimmer, power head for about 4-5 hours time.
<Why is it that these disasters only occur when we aren't home?>
I'd say the tank went down to about 74 degrees. Obviously this is stressful... Luckily, my friend was there to assist my fish, and fixed the electrical problem.
<Can't put a price on friends, huh?>
That was Saturday. On Monday morning, I came back and fixed the skimmer (the friend who was still in town is only familiar w/ freshwater)...
My question is this. All my fish and inverts are fine, healthy, and eating great except for one of my clowns. He swims toward the top of the tank,
almost on his side. Breathing and fin movement seem normal. (Except that he's on his side, almost) (I've been watching him closely)... From time to time, it almost looks like he's trying to eat something on the surface but can't really do it. His buddy sticks closely by him and doesn't bother him
at all. He typically stays in one exact location for a few hours, then slowly moves to another location. I know he's a new fish, relatively speaking.
I have been reading and can't really find the symptoms out.
If I saw white feces, (I'm not sure this was the case) In any event, it seems as if it was white, there may be a bacterial infection, correct?
<Not always. If the fish is not eating, there are lots of possibilities. I'd keep sharp and for anything resembling a symptom of a stress-related illness (parasitic or otherwise. Otherwise, I'd keep trying to get the fish to eat. Monitor water quality, etc. to assure that no additional stressors arise.>
If it turns out there was no white feces, what should I do? Thank you again for time and help!
Eric
<Man...if you would have asked me 10 years ago if I was gonna be writing about fish poop in front of 10,000 people a day, I would have thought you were nuts...Guess it's just all in a day's work here at WWM! Shows how much life changes, huh?? Seriously, I would not be overly concerned...yet. I'm more concerned with getting the fish to eat again. Stay on top of things, and be prepared to take actions if necessary. Feel free to let me know if you have any more questions! Regards, Scott F.>

Re: On The Watch For Illness- Part 2  – 07/03/07
I definitely didn't suspect such a quick response, but thanks!
<Glad to help!>
And I was thinking the same thing, why do these things happen when I'm gone?
<Someone's idea of a joke against us fish nerds!>
And yes, friends are extremely helpful.
After writing last night I watched my fish more extensively, did some more research, and found that he is now breathing rapidly (I read on the site that more than 60 times per minute is rapid... well, it's definitely more
than that. More than 1 breath per second. I'd say about 1.5 er so, not quite 2... but it's sort of hard to gauge.
<Hmmm...>
Also, his fins are somewhat slower in movement than the other clown. I read over the clown fish disease section and he isn't showing any signs or anything from the other possible diseases/stresses. The one good (great) sign is that when I fed the rest of the fish some Mysis shrimp last night, he (momentarily) came back and started to swim a bit faster and eat, (90% sure he was actually eating, not just biting and spitting out) only to retreat to the top of the tank when done, and show the same symptoms.
So, my question is this: does this change your recommendations?
Thanks again,
Eric
<Well, Eric, the continuous rapid breathing is a cause for concern, and can point to several possible problems, ranging from environmental (ie; metabolic poisoning, etc.) to parasitic diseases, such as Amyloodinium, Brooklynella, etc. If the other fishes are not affected, and assuming you're getting no detectible ammonia or nitrite in your water tests, I'd be inclined to rule out an environmental issue for now. Even though the fish may not be demonstrating the other "classic" symptoms of he aforementioned parasitic diseases, I would consider them a serious possibility. Usually, thick, whitish mucous and the fish "gaping" are signs of Brooklynella...It's more common in wild-caught Clownfish these days, but still a possibility. Amyloodinium ("Velvet"), has similar symptoms in terms of loss of appetite, lethargic behavior, and rapid respiration. Eventually, very fine spots may show on the fish (although sometimes not) as the protozoa that cause the disease feed by liquefying parts of the fish (I know, sounds gross- it is)
.Often, the first stop for these despicable protozoa is the fish's gills, which can account for the rapid respiration. You will eventually see "blemishes" on the fish's skin, and it may "scratch" itself on objects in the aquarium in an effort to remove the irritant. Many times, however, this disease can kill fishes before these other outward signs manifest. Rapid intervention is necessary. One good thing is that your fish is still eating. I would remove this fish to a separate aquarium with water from the display for further observation and possible treatment. If these symptoms do not subside fairly quickly (like within hours), I'd operate under the assumption that you may be dealing with Amyloodinium. Note that I did say "assumption"...you need to verify this to the best of your ability with the resources here on WWM and elsewhere. It's a very deadly disease, so once you're convinced that you're dealing with it, action is necessary. You can start with freshwater dips for 3-5 minutes duration, which may or may not be effective, but could cause some of the trophonts (if present on the fish) to drop off in a response to some osmotic shock. Next, a course of treatment with copper sulphate (a brand such as Copper Safe is good) should be undertaken. Copper can be harsh, but it works for me. Follow the manufacturer's recommendation to the letter when using this, or any medication, never treat in the display aquarium, and test for copper to assure that you are achieving a proper therapeutic dose. Copper is not everyone's favorite (some prefer Formalin-based products), but it has worked for me in the past and I would use it again. There is always some risk in treating a fish when you're not 100% certain what the disease is, and it's tough to diagnose a fish without being there to see with one's own eyes, so I'm giving you my best guess based on what I hear so far. You have to confirm this for yourself, and sometimes a bit of a guess is necessary. You need to prepare yourself for the possibility that you might lose the fish. However, if you intervene rapidly, and are correct in your "diagnosis", this disease can be defeated. Unfortunately, because this disease is parasitic in nature, there is the possibility that it is in your display tank, and may affect other fishes in there. Observe the fishes in the display aquarium carefully and prepare to take further action, if necessary. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Clownfish ? Lumenal parasite?  - 06/27/07
Hello,
<Hi there!>
We have a salt water tank that was given to us. It included one clownfish and one blue damsel. We do weekly water changes and test the water. The tank has been doing very well. It has been here for several months. We are new to aquariums.
A few weeks ago we added a second clownfish. The second clownfish didn't eat much which we attributed to the change. But then it started to have a long white string hanging from its backend and stopped eating all together.
It also sits on the bottom in the back hiding behind a rock.
<The long white fecal material could mean nothing...>
I did research your site, excellent site by the way, and it seems a lumen parasite is the most probable.
<Possible>
On the advice of a pet store we were already treating with Clout (hydroxyethyl & nitromidazole) for 4 days. We did 1 tab/1 liter of water for 20 minutes and then 1 tab/1 gal of water for 2 days and then a 50% water change and repeated the process for a total of 4 days.
(In a quarantine tank) No change.
<Mmmm>
A week later we notice our original clownfish doing the same thing. It starts with a change in breathing then no eating and the white string. The breathing is the mouth opens and closes all the time.
<Well... I would try a one-time use of Flagyl/Metronidazole... and a follow-up treatment regimen with an anthelminthic... Likely Prazi/quantel... See WWM re dosages, protocol>
A week after our original clownfish started the blue damsel started with the
change in breathing and not eating. No white string yet.
It seems that the second clown fish had this and passed it on to the others.
What is it and how do we treat it?
<Perhaps a protozoan... could be a worm of some sort...>
We have separated both clownfish. Is it also contagious to star fish, etc.?
<Could be>
We have several polyps, feather dusters, etc. in the tank as well.
Thank you for your help,
Gwen
<These will not be parasitized, nor likely mal-affected by the proscribed compounds. Bob Fenner>

hey!! A tutorial on writing to WWM 6/14/07
Hey again WWM guys!
<Greetings, Ahmad. >
i <I> waked <Woke> up today i <I> found my smaller clown is dead !!!!!
yesterday <Yesterday> i <I> changed the filter because it was making some sounds! cuz <...> it was closing it's upper and lower fins and when i <I> swich <Switch> the filter off it releases them!
<And you think the sound was the cause of the apparent discomfort?>
my <My> new filter doesn't make turbans <Turbulence?> in water that much!
plus <Plus> there is another thing<:> it was not eating that much but i <I> used to her <hear> it
pooing "am feeing them blood worms"
<Not sure what you mean, bud.>
i <I> don't know what is the problem my water conditions are ok!!
thanks again!! :(
<I'm sorry I can't more helpful here, friend. I don't make a lot of sense of your email, to be honest. You may notice that there are a lot of inserts in angle brackets (<>) in your message. These are all of the corrections you would have me/us do here at WWM before replying to you. We can't have it this way, sorry. Look over your email before sending, and reflect: "Is this what I want to say? Is this how I want to say it? Can someone make sense of this?". Please consider this and by all means reply and I'll be more than happy to lend a hand. No offense is intended, but our minimal requirement for our help/support is that you respect our time and "pay" us in proper grammar, punctuation, spelling etc.>
By Ahmad Zein
<-GrahamT> <<Graham... not to make allowances out of hand... but this fellow may well be a non-native speaker/writer of English... I often remind myself that my responses in turn would not be too spiffy if I tried to write back in other folks native script... RMF>>

My clown is dead :'( NO useful info.  – 06/15/07
Hey again WWM guys!
I woke up today I found my smaller clown is dead !!!!!
Yesterday I changed the filter because it was making some sounds! Because it was closing it's upper and lower fins and when I switch the filter off it releases them!
My new filter doesn't make turbulence in water that much!
Plus it was not eating that much but I used to see it pooing "am feeding them blood worms"
I don't know what is the problem, I tested my water conditions and the are OK !!
thanks again!! :(
--
By Ahmad Zein
<... No water quality test results? No mention of system, maintenance, feeding, tankmates... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clnfshdisart.htm
and the linked files at top. RMF>

Sick Clown 6/12/07
My tank as just finished cycling a couple of days ago and I decided to purchase some livestock. I purchased a ocellaris clown, star polyp, some snails and hermits. After one day I lost a hermit followed by another that night, others are doing fine. <Might be an acclimation problem here. Also, no QT tank?> Coral is doing well also. My big concern is that my clown started acting really strange after my water change. He had a white stringy substance trailing him ( came off , maybe parasite or feces ) and he has been at the top of the tank alot. <Could be nothing, but need to monitor closely.> He also seems to be having fun swimming into the powerhead current and getting pushed around the tank. <Normal> I don't now what normal breathing is, but it seems awful fast to me. All of my water parameters are in the safe ranges. <Numbers please, safe range is too subjective.> Do I need to worry and is he just lonely cause he has no one to play with? <Not lonely, but may be harboring something, hard too say. QTing a fish is important for just this reason, allows you to monitor and treat if necessary much more easily.> He is still swimming upright.
Thank you
Tim
<I would not do anything yet other than observe closely, look for signs of parasitic infection which can be common in clowns. Please check out or marine disease section for more. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm .>

Clowns Dying 6/1/07
Hi
<Hello>
I keep losing my clown fish and I don't know why. The first pair I brought after my tank had cycled for 5 weeks, and I had the water tested and all was fine. One of the pair was not right from the moment it went into the tank and I fort he recovered, but then it died after 3 days. <Need to QT new fish, now if their death was caused by some pathogen it is in the main tank.> The second one lasted 2 weeks and then was fine in the morning then by the afternoon just died. I went to a different shop a week later and had the water checked a second time and every think again was fine, so I brought two more clowns. <"Fine" is not really specific enough to help, actual test numbers are much more helpful.> They seemed perfectly fine much more healthy than the other two and were fine for almost a week. But last night one just started to act funny, it was lying around the thermometer and then swimming away and doing it over again and lying for a while. I looked for advice on your website and I fort it was just resting playing or whatever, but then it hid in a hole in the rock it never uses and I fort it had just found a new hiding place. Then it seemed to be back to its self I went to bed, woke up turned the light on and it was dead in the corner. The other clown seems fine just sort of alone. It was eating fine and everything before it died and I don't know what's wrong with them. I'm now thinking its something I'm doing wrong rather than the fish. My tank is 25 gallons it has a internal lee's protein skimmer <dubious reputation>, a coral sand (more like gravel) base around 2inchs deep, 3 pieces of ocean rock, 2 pieces of live rock, a external filter , heater , 2 high power t5 compact lighting bulbs 36w each in a over hanging housing. I've had the water tested and its fine so I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I hope you can help as I don't want to buy any more fish until I know what's wrong
Thanks Toby
<Unfortunately there is not much to go on here. The problem could be either environmental or pathological in nature. In this situation I would let the tank run fallow (no fish) for at least 6 weeks to hopefully rule out most parasites and making sure your water parameters are Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, and nitrate >20. pH should be 8.3 and the SG at 1.025. Also please read through the marine disease section and see if any of the diseases match what you saw. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm .>
<Chris>

Clown Fish Health, Post-Traumatic Water Chem. Issue  – 05/08/07
Please help me WWM Crew,
<Yes sir…I’m going to try.>
After a recently added a Sally Lightfoot Crab To my 29 gal tank with my 2 Amphiprion Ocellaris.
<Careful with the crab. Some folks have good experiences….others, like myself, did not. Can become quite predatory.>
The wife gave the crab a cooked shrimp while I was at work.
<Uh-oh.>
She removed it after a while but she missed part of the shrimp that he had ripped off. This lead to a nitrate spike that got to 160ppm.
<To say that’s bad would be an understatement.>
After 2; 5 gal water changes and a dose of  Seachem prime. The water level went back down to 20 ppm nitrate 0 nitrites and the gravity is  1.022.
<Nitrates till need to come down to about >10 and S.G. needs to come up as well to be acceptable to your inverts…but much better than it was before obviously.>
( it has been holding this for 48 hrs) My crab and one of my clown seem to have made it threw the mishap just fine.
<Good. Keep up on the water changes and run some carbon as well.>
The other clown is losing color and hanging around the filter outlet.
<Lingering effects from the toxic state the tank was in.>
He is still eating and at times swims like his normal self but most of the time he hangs around.
<A good sign that he is eating though. At this point I would just continue to care in a normal manor and offer a variety of foods. Keep the tank aerated well and ensure the water chemistry remains stable (i.e. have a conversation with your wife and do more eater changes.>
Also when we 1st got him he a red sore that went away with in two days this sore has since reemerged.
<Sounds like environmental induced trauma, follow the advice above for mow. If it makes you feel better you could move him into QT for more detailed attention/care.>
I called the LFS and was given the advise that since I got the water under control to just do frequent water changes and watch for any changes.
<Am in agreement with the LFS for once.>
Thank you for your help.
<Anytime my friend.>
Rob
<Adam J.>