Overstocking Insanity   12/25/08
This is an ad I just copied off of craigslist... These are just the fish currently "for sale"... Sadly, there is even a Sailfin Tang in the photo... I guess he's keeping that one. I'm half-tempted to make an offer so I can save them and donate to my LFS. He wont even split them up? What the hell? Know anyone with a 1000g tank looking for a package deal? Or do you think North Hollywood Animal Police handles fish cruelty calls? And I thought I was overstocked. As Bob would likely say... "Yikes". Reply to: comm-967601341@craigslist.org [?]Date: 2008-12-22, 4:53PM PSTI have had my saltwater tank set up for more than a year and some of my fish have outgrown my tank and its time for them to move on to a bigger tank I have a 80g tank and here are the fish I have for sale. 1 bamboo shark, 1 Picasso trigger, 1 nigger trigger,1 snowflake eel, 1 Lunare wrasse, 1 star and stripped puffer and 2 volitans lions one black and one red . Ill be taking offer and the highest one take them all must be adopted together. All of my fish are 5-6" and shark is about 11" and the eel is about 16".
<Oh buoy! Makes me wonder just how many gallons of water are actually here. Thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner>

Small Predator Tank, stkg.    12/15/08
I am trying to plan my return to the marine aquarium world and I wanted to see if I am on the right track. A tank full of small aggressive fish sounds to me like a particularly interesting idea as I always liked Damsels, Groupers and Triggers. So I thought I would see your thoughts on the following stocking list, in the order I plan to stock them:
1 Blue Hamlet (Hypoplectrus gemma' max size 5")
1 Dwarf Lionfish(Probably Dendrochirus barberi max size 7")
<Mmm, may swallow some of its tankmates...>
1 Hawkfish(probably Cyprinocirrhites polyactis max size 5")
1 Whitetail Trigger(Sufflamen albicaudatum max size 8.5")
1 Pseudochromis(probably Pseudochromis splendens max size 5")
<A good choice in this family>
1 Large Damselfish(probably Dascyllus trimaculatus max size 5")
<Can be a terror... even biting you!>
First, are there any irreconcilable differences between any of these fish?
<Mmm, none tremendously overt... given room, habitat...>
I realize that with fish this aggressive there may be one fish that refuses any company whatsoever, but is there at least a reasonable probability of  it working?
<Yes... in the 125 I see you are proposing below>
As far as I can tell they are all big enough to avoid being lunch for the Dwarf Lionfish provided I buy them while larger than three inches.
The other issue I would worry about is the Trigger harassing the Lionfish or the Hamlet to death, but from what I read this is one of the triggers that is sometimes kept in reefs, which makes me suspect that interaction will  be fine.
<As Triggerfishes go the genus Sufflamen are rather mellow. Getting food to the Lion here should not be insurmountable>
Then there is the issue of tank size. Does a 125 gallon seem reasonable for this?
<Yes>
When introduced this is about 20 inches of medium sized fish, when adults it is about 35 inches.
<And these fishes won't get this large here, ever>
That leaves 1 inch per 3.5 gallons as adults, to me that sounds reasonable since in my experience I rarely get  everything in the tank at an adult size at the same time. Reaching a psychological limit seems more likely, but enough caves seems like it should handle that problem.
<You exhibit wisdom, patience and intelligence here...>
As for filtration I was thinking a large skimmer, a refugium with a deep sand bed, and if it proves necessary perhaps a wet-dry system.
Thanks
Jesse
<Thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner>

Identification help? And a whole lot more!, Shroom, and stkg.... FO SW, & coral lighting...   12/02/08 Hi crew again-- <Hello, Mich here.> For the purpose of trying to get as many questions asked/answered with one email, please bear with me! <No worries.> I am attaching a picture of what I believe may be a Ricordea mushroom, but I cannot tell. <Looks like a Ricordea yuma to me.> This mushroom hitchhiked in on a piece of live rock. It has "split" once. It does much better under actinic lighting and closer to the lighting than the other mushrooms I have in my tank. <Ricordea are often found in shallow waters.> I have also invested in the Pocket Expert Guide to Marine Fishes by Scott Michael and the 101 Best Saltwater Fishes by Scott Michael. I also purchased the Pocket Expert Guide to Marine Invertebrates by Dr. Ronald Shimek. My next purchase will be the Conscientious Marine Aquarist. <All four are excellent books! You are very wise to spend some money on educating yourself. These books are well worth the money and very useful tools. Congrats to you.> The first three books have helped me immensely on planning the rest of my current 75 gallon tank as well as my preparations to begin setup on a 55 gallon tank and a 30 gallon tank. My 75 gallon will be my reef tank and the 55 gallon will be an aggressive fish only tank. The 30 gallon will be a peaceful fish only tank. Can I ask your suggestions on my list of what I want to put in the 55 gallon? Also what to put in the 30 (below)? <Sure, though I will defer here to ScottF. as he is more knowledgeable in this subject area.> I would like to put in the 55 gallon: <Hi! Scott F. chiming in...> 1 Harlequin Tuskfish (Choerodon fasciatus) <Yikes! In a 55?> 1 Volitans Lionfish (Pterois volitans) <Oh my!> 1 Scimitar (Bursa) Triggerfish (Sufflamen bursa) <Please, no! You're killing me.> 1 eel (I am undecided on a type here) either a Whitemouth Moray (Gymnothorax meleagris) or a Zebra Moray (Gymnomuraena zebra) or possibly a Snowflake Moray (Echidna nebulosa) <OMG!!!!> 1 Pufferfish (again undecided) either a Blackspotted Puffer (Arothron nigropunctatus) or a Spiny Puffer (Diodon holocanthus) <Airway...I need an airway!> #1 is this too big of a bio-load for a 55 gallon? After reading about each of these, I think they should all do fine together, but wanted your suggestions first. <Um...in a word- YES! I didn't mean to sound too insensitive, but we need to revisit this stocking plan. Not one of these fishes is really even a viable choice for the short run in an aquarium of this size. In addition to reaching sizes that are way too large for this aquarium, these fishes are quite aggressive and incompatible, are messy eaters, and produce copious amounts of metabolic wastes. We need to look at some alternative fishes that will be better suited for this aquarium. Smaller, more peaceful choices would be a better approach. The Harlequin Tusk and the Triggers are simply out of the question for this aquarium. A Lionfish is a possibility, if you are willing to try a different species, such as the "Fu Manchu Lionfish", Dendrochirus biocellatus. This fish is almost as "sexy" as the full-sized guys, yet reaches a more manageable 4 inches or so. It can be a bit shy, but can easily be kept in a 55 gallon aquarium. Like all Lionfish, it is venomous, so do exercise caution when handling this fish. A moray Eel is really not a viable choice for this sized aquarium, either, but you could consider a smaller version, such as the "Golden Dwarf Moray", Gymnothorax melatremus, which is a tiny version of the full-sized species. It reaches a maximum size of about 6-8 inches, and is the diameter of a pen. However, don't let the small size of the fish fool you; these fishes can eat surprisingly large prey items! And, to top it off- they are amazing jumpers. If you do keep one, remember to keep the aquarium tightly covered. They can find the smallest opening and use it to go "carpet surfing"! Oh- and did I mention that they are pretty darned expensive, too! Nonetheless, I think that this would be the only Eel that I would even consider for this sized aquarium. In place of the Harlequin Tusk, consider a smaller wrasse species, such as a Halichoeres species, which generally top off in the 3"-4" range. Better long-term choices for a modest-sized aquarium.> #2 what order would you add them in? I think the trigger should probably be added last, but not sure. <I'd add the Lionfish first, and make sure that he's eating before another fish is added. Then I'd go for the GDM, and the wrasse would round out the stocking list.> Next tank I want to set up is a 30 gallon peaceful. The following are the inhabitants I want to put in: 1 Yellow Shrimp Goby (Cryptocentrus cinctus) 1 Banggai Cardinalfish (Pterapogon kauderni) <Some controversy with this fish. Please see here: http://microcosmaqx.typepad.com/ret_talbot/2008/09/banggai-cardi-2.html http://en.microcosmaquariumexplorer.com/wiki/Portal:Letters > 1 Royal Gramma (Gramma loreto) 1 Cherub Angelfish (Centropyge argi) 1 Coral Beauty Angelfish (Centropyge bispinosa) <Don't mix Centropyge angelfish in this sized aquarium. Choose one or the other. Personally, I'd pass on an angelfish in this sized system. However, if you must have one, the C. argi is the better choice. It can be a bit aggressive, so be careful and observe the system often.> 2 Yellow Clown Gobies (Gobiodon okinawae) For this group, I would add the Cherub last. <Absolutely.> Too big of a bio-load? <Oh yes, by far. You need to pare down the stocking list quite a bit. I'd consider keeping the Goby, Royal Gramma, and the C. argi. That would be it! Remember, a 30 gallon aquarium holds less than 30 gallons when you take into account the volume consumed by rock and sand. Smaller water volumes are a great challenge to maintain.> What order to add? <Goby, Gramma, Angelfish!> The fish only tanks will get live sand and some live rock, but that is it. <OK.> I will be putting a protein skimmer on the 55, but will it be necessary on the 30 gallon? <I would say yes. In my opinion, a protein skimmer is not an optional piece of equipment in a marine system. I simply would not run a marine system without one. This is my opinion, of course, but I would be remiss if I did not attempt to convince you to utilize protein skimming in your system, regardless of size.> Could I do more frequent water changes in 30 instead of skimming? <You could, but I still feel a skimmer is mandatory. There are skimmers available for almost any size of aquarium and budget, so do a little research and you'll find one that works for your system.> Okay now a quick question on my 75 gallon if I may. You guys have helped me out with other problems with that tank. Needless to say, I did what I assume many beginning aquarists do--I ran out and bought and bought and bought and did not research first. I have learned the hard way that is not the way to do it! <A terrible lesson, but at least you learned. And the fact that you are sharing your experience with others proves that you have progressed!> With the money wasted in now dead livestock, I could have purchased some really awesome high dollar fish! <Like a Golden Dwarf Moray!> Live and learn I guess! Okay on to the question.... I am planning on purchasing a metal halide/T-5 combo light for my 75 gallon. The following is what I am looking at: 2 X 250 Watt Metal Halide � 15k bulbs included 4 X 54 watt T5 HO Lights included- 4 actinic 03 bulbs 8 lunar moonlights included on fixture � 8 blue 1 watt LED's Unit has 3 Chords and 3 switches Is this sufficient lighting for all corals, etc? <It can be sufficient for a great many corals, and may actually be overkill for some species! It really boils down to what kinds of corals you intend to keep. Personally, I like the flexibility of the Halide/T5 combo, but you could actually get by with exclusively lighting the system with T5 bulbs. They are a remarkably powerful lighting source for a variety of corals. You also may not need 250 watt halides over this sized system. You could do pretty well with two 150 watt DE halides over this sized system, and realize the same flexibility and enjoy energy savings as well!> The other 2 tanks will have actinic lighting--no metal halides or anything "fancy". Any help would sure be appreciated! Thank you so much for being there for people! <You are very welcome! Scott F. signing out!> Angela

New 55 Gallon FO Saltwater Tank, stkg.  11/18/08
Hey Crew,
My fiancé and myself are new to the aquarium world and have been doing some research and planning before purchase. We have 2" of sand seeded with live sand that was used to cycle the tank. It's about 2.5 ft high, 4 ft wide and maybe a 1 ft deep. We want to setup the tank to center around a couple of butterflyfish that we'll acclimate at the same time, but will start with some smaller, hardier fish first.
<Uh... don't get any fish you don't want "forever." So called "starter fish" are not such a good idea when it comes to marine tanks, unless these are the fish you plan to keep indefinitely.>
Was thinking of 2 to 4 blue-green chromis, 2 hermit crabs, and a couple of snails for starters.
<Hermits and snails are good for fish only tanks. You can start with 2 chromis, but again, only if there are fish you really do want.>
My main question is what type of butterfly fish should I consider? I'd like the Raccoon, but I'm afraid my tank is a tad on the small side.
<Your fear is warranted... the tank is probably too small for a Raccoon butterfly, or most any butterfly really. These fish are "roamers" and need as much room as you can give them. But you might be ok with one of the smaller species, maybe. Also, some don't do well with others of their own kind (do better solitary). To start, please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BFsBestWrst.htm
and follow the links to the different groups.>
Would you have a good recommendation for butterflyfish that would work well in a tank this size?
<I'm not going to say you couldn't keep any kind of butterfly in this tank, but I wouldn't recommend it for anyone who hasn't been keeping marine fish for a long time. I can understand their appeal and wanting to have a pair of fish. But If what you really want a "romantic" kind of display with a happy pairing of fish... there are better options... like clown fish.
Please take your time, do your research. I'm sure you and your fiancé will find the perfect fish for you and your system. :-) >
Jason Tindell
<Best,
Sara M.>

Re: New 55 Gallon FO Saltwater Tank 11/19/08
Yeah, cause Finding Nemo was a really romantic movie...
<Mmm, well, while a great show... not the most accurate. Clown fish are actually very easy to pair because if you get two when they are small/young, one (the bigger one) will become female while the other male.>
Jason Tindell
<Best,
Sara M.>

Re: New 55 Gallon FO Saltwater Tank 11/19/08
Sara, I sincerely apologize for that previous email being sent to your website. It was suppose to be sent to my fiancé and I was merely expressing my personal frustration.
<Oops, no worries. I do apologize if I caused you to be frustrated. But there's a reason most people don't keep marine aquariums for long (unfortunately). I/we don't mean to turn people off to the hobby, but we do want to let them know what they're getting into.>
I do appreciate your advice and time in answering my newbie questions. The blue-green chromis is a starter fish as in we are new to the marine aquarium world and it's a cheap, hearty fish that have a good chance to survive our mistakes and will likely get along well with any future choices so they would be there for the long haul.
<Ah, good. I didn't mean to say you shouldn't try your hand with "starter fish" if it's a fish you like and plan to keep. I was referring more to when people use fish like damsels for such and then live to regret it or worse, take them out later and dispose of them. But yes, Chromis are good "starter" fish... and as long as you plan to keep them, they are a fine choice.>
However, the B/Fs are what we really would like to have, and it may just take us a little longer and graduating to a larger tank before we introduce
<Good idea.>
them into our system as I certainly wouldn't want to cram them into a space too small for their needs.
<Bless you>
Jason Tindell
<Good luck... it's an adventure for sure!
Best,
Sara M.>

120 stocking 11/15/08
Crew,
<Joe>
I have a question about stocking for my 120. I currently have a porcupine puffer, purple tang, Huma, and clown trigger.
I was thinking about adding a coral hind to the tank but don't know if I really have the room. Do you think I have room for any more fish, much less that large of a fish?
<I do not. You have too much for this tank already with the large, aggressive Clown.>
Thanks,
Joe
<Welcome, Scott V.>

Stocking question... SW, gen... reading  8/18/08
Howdy Crew
<Hi there>
I am a junior high school science teacher and am in the process of setting up a 180 gallon saltwater tank in my classroom. It's been running 3 months and I'm in the process of filling it with livestock. I have about 50 lbs of live rock and another 80 of base rock that looks like its starting to be seeded. Oh, and I have a 3 inch bed of live sand. The water quality seems good with nitrates being the only substance that is creeping up a little--I still have bio-balls in the sump since I don't know if my live rock is cooking enough to remove them yet.
<Mmm, very likely is>
Anyway, I cycled the tank with 2 big Green Chromis. About 3 weeks ago, I added 2 young Percula Clowns (each with a cool double saddle misbar on the back), a lawnmower blenny, and 3 turbo snails . I also have a couple As far as I can tell, the only problem I'm having so far is a hair algae outbreak which let me to the snails and the blenny. I have a few aiptasia but injecting them with lemon juice has worked great so far. My goal for the tank is to create a system with a lot of diversity (with lots to explain to the kids) and I'd like to eventually have a Flame Angel as the centerpiece. Yesterday, I went to my LFS and didn't see any of the fish I really wanted other than a flame angel. ) I'm rather weary of wrasses and the two fish I'm considering from the store are a Sixline wrasse and a yellow wrasse. Here are my questions:
1) Would adding a group of small green chromis to the big 2 be a death sentence for the new ones?
<Mmm, not too likely... in a system of this size, shape... they'll probably stay in separate groups>
2) What's your opinion on the wrasse duo, especially the yellow?
<S/b fine as well. The Halichoeres chrysus is a fave... you'll see it out and about... the Pseudocheilinus will hide most all the time>
I had wanted to add a Mandarin in a year or so, but I'm guessing the wrasses are going to knock the copepod population down too low for that to work. Also, I hear (read) they eat shrimp.
<Mmm, only very small...>
3) In building a cleanup crew, will different types of crabs battle or will they claim a territory and be happy?
<... I'd do a bit of reading re... skip on decapods>
Also are there any shrimp that will work with the addition of the yellow wrasse?
<Sure... Hippolytids esp.>
I really need something that will clean up my sand.
<Mmm, other animals for this>
4) Since I have the 2 clownfish are other clowns of the same (or different) species now off limits?
<In a six foot long system, another pair of Amphiprion should be fine>
5) What are your thoughts on the following as future fish: Yellow Tang, Pajama cardinal(s), Schooling Bannerfish (can I do just 1?),
<Yes>
Royal Gramma, Clown goby, and the Flame angel.
6) Do you have any other opinions on what would be "cool" for me to put in the tank for a 7th grader to see? (I am new to all of this.)
<Mmm, I'd ask them to research.>
Thanks very much for your time and thanks for the great website.
<Welcome! Bob Fenner>

Stocking List; what size tank?  10/11/08
Good day Crew of WWM,
<Eric>
I have a quick question. Here's the list of fish I'm planning to buy, and I'm wondering, what is the smallest tank you would recommend?
<Mmm... okay>
1. Yellow Tailed Blue Damsels/Green Chromis (3)
2. Flame Angel
3. Starry Blenny
4. Canthigaster Solandri
<Mmm, a stock shape 55 or sixty minimum... bigger... better>
I'll have an over-filtered tank with plenty of live rock, aeration, and an excellent skimmer, of course. Ideally, I would like to put them in a 46 gallon bowfront tank,
<Mmm, not a good shape for the volume... too little space for all to get away from each other, you>
if at all possible. Do you think this is too small?
<Yes>
Thanks as always!
Eric
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Dwarf Lionfish and Harlequin Tusk... incomp.   10/1/08
Hello,
<Hi>
I have a Dwarf Lionfish that is about 4" long living nicely with a Carpet Eel Blenny
<(Congrogadus subducens)>
(he was added a couple of weeks ago). I introduced a new Dwarf Lion to my tank three days ago and woke up this morning to find it dead. It had been harassed by the other Dwarf, but I was (stupidly?) hoping that they could sort out their differences.
<Likely got poked>
This same Dwarf harassed a Clown Trigger until it had to be removed to another tank.
<I would too. NOT compatible>
Oh, I have a 55 gallon tank with canister filter (Fluval 305) and CPR BakPak skimmer along with a bunch of live rock
(sorry, don't know how many pounds). So, I really want to introduce another fish to live with these two,
<You need to study...>
at the same time add some color to the tank, but am feeling a little gun-shy regarding the aggression my lion has been showing towards fish. I really want a Harlequin Tusk,
<This tank... is too small>
but I'm happy to hear suggestions.
<Oh, good>
I just don't want unhappy fish and would like to keep my Dwarf Lion. Can you guys help me??
Thank you!
<Can help you help yourself. Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/dwflioncompfaqs.htm
and the linked files above, and peruse WWM until you're better aware of your possibilities. Bob Fenner>

re: trigger and tank size... ridiculous FO lvstk. mix, joke?   10/1/08
I have a 120 gallon tank.
In it i have a Picasso trigger and a Niger trigger. is this going to be enough room for them when they have grown to full size or should i be looking for a bigger tank now?
<Likely would/will be fine>
i also have a Volitans lion fish, dog face puffer, a fox-face rabbit fish, and 2 eels. thanks in advance.
<... is this a joke? I do hope not. See WWM re the Systems, Compatibility of what species you have. This mix will NOT work. Bob Fenner>

Fish Tank Question, Marine Stocking 9/22/08
Hey WWM Crew,
<Hello>
I have a question regarding the following:
I have a 46 gallon bow front aquarium that I am setting up for a saltwater tank.
<I have had one of these for years.>
I'm all good with that but a question has come across my mind for fish for in this aquarium. When placing fish into a 46 gallon bowfront is these fish that I would like to have fine together in this size tank. I would like to have, a pair of True Percula Clownfish,
<Ok>
a Raccoon Butterfly,
<Gets too big.>
a Coral Beauty Angelfish,
<Needs a bit larger tank.>
and a Koran Angelfish.
<Also too big.>
I believe that I have given enough area for the fish to be able to separate and enough spots to hide out, so I believe this number will be an okay amount.
<I would disagree here, for comparison in mine I have a pair of clowns and a Gramma, plus a fairly large serpent star and I consider it fairly well stocked. The tank is smaller than you think, especially when rock, sand, and equipment is added in.>
But if you don't think so please let me know.
<See above.>
And my second question that might already be answered in the first one is Will both a Koran angelfish and a Coral Beauty angelfish be able to go together, I know sometimes that 2 angels cant go together, but if I add them at same/similar times (please let me know if that is even necessary if fish are fine together) but will those to angels be fine together?
<Not in this sized aquarium.>
Thank you so much for your help
Ryan
<Welcome>
<Chris>

Stocking list compatibility.. FO... 155 gal.s   8/30/08
Hello Crew!
<Jeremy>
After a very sudden and devastating bout with Amyloodinium that wiped out an entire tank in less than 24 hours and a very tough lesson learned about QT'ing for a FULL 4 weeks, and nothing less, I'm in the position of coming up with a new stocking list once my 6 week fallow period has passed. Having learned what I have over the last year, I'm going to change up my list of possible inhabitants a bit and wondered if someone would mind taking a brief look at it and tell me if there are any absolute compatibility no-no's. I have a year old 120gal mixed reef set-up with a 6" DSB, 100lbs. LR, 35gal sump with a built in refugium growing Chaeto/Copepods fed by dual MegaFlows and roughly 3400gph total tank flow rate. Some of the possibilities I'm considering include:
Holocentrus Adscensionis (Squirrelfish)
*or, not both*
Neoniphon marianus (Longjaw Squirrelfish)
<Both good choices in Holocentrids...>
Pterois Volitans (Volitans Lionfish)
<Mmm, will get to be about half the allowable biomass in this volume>
Coris Gaimard (Gaimard Wrasse)
Pterapogan kauderni (Banggai Cardinal)
<Eaten by the Lion, maybe the Squirrel>
Neocirrhites Armatus (Scarlet/Flame Hawkfish)
<Ditto>
Siganus Magnificus (Magnificent Rabbitfish)
Zebrasoma Flavescens (Yellow Tang)
Istiblennius Chrysospilos (Red/Orange Spotted Blenny)
Synchiropus Picturatus (Psychedelic Mandarin) *POSSIBLY, undecided if I want to risk it*
<Mmm, also eaten...>
Chromis Viridis (Blue-Green Chromis)
<Ditto>
Linckia Laevigata (Linckia Starfish)
<See WWM, not good species for aquarium care>
Premnas Biaculeatus (Maroon Clownfish) *To be added last*
Congrogadus Subduscens (Green Wolf Eel) *Unclear as to whether this is even a survivable/viable species to try*
<Is actually pretty tough>
Apologies for dual naming, I'm trying to get out of the habit of using common names but still need reminders. Obviously I'm not thinking of stocking all of these fish, but a handful out of the list. After searching and searching through the FAQ's, my head is spinning and I hoped that I might be able to take a little more direct approach by gleaning from one of you guys directly. Any input, suggestions, or substitutions would be greatly appreciated. BTW thank you Bob for your help with my pond a few weeks ago. After a few back to back water changes, my Koi with the mysterious black spots/growths cleared up and all inhabitants are apparently happy again!
<Ah, good>
Whatever was causing it seemed to be environmental after all.
Humbly,
Jeremy
<Well... you have pretty much "2" systems to decide between... the one with the Squirrel and Lion (plus a few other of the larger choices listed) OR the one with the smaller fishes excluding them... Bob Fenner>

Re: Stocking list compatibility..  8/31/08
Thank you for the reply Bob. I kind of thought the Volitans might get to be a little large, but what about one of the smaller species like Dendrochirus biocellatus if some of the smaller selections were of mature size?
<Mmm, no, I wouldn't>
The only reason I ask is because I know my wife will want some of the smaller *pretty* fish, and I've wanted to try some type of Scorpionfish for a long time, so I'm trying to find a happy medium somewhere.
<Two tanks>
I can do without the squirrelfish if necessary as I didn't have my heart truly set on one to begin with. I'm assuming that the cardinals and the mandarin (my wife will be heartbroken) would still be no-no's, but what about the chromis and Hawkfish?
<... not with the Lion... Please learn to/use the indices, search tool on WWM. This information and much that you will find of use, interest is archived along side of it. Bob Fenner>

Fish Stocking Question for 90g Marine Tank – 08/24/08
Hello WWM Crew,
<<Greetings Clay>>
I have a question regarding the stocking of my system.
<<Okay>>
Here is a brief description of my tank. I have a 90 gallon display tank with a 40 gallon sump and refugium. The tank contains 130 pounds of live rock. My skimmer is a SWC Xtreme NW-160. Other filtration includes active GAC and PhosBan. The system has been up and running for just over 11 months. I currently have a Royal Gramma, Ocellaris Clown, Orchid Dottyback, and a Sailfin Tang.
<<Mmm…though I’m sure it doesn’t seem like it, the 90 is too small for the Sailfin. If this fish were to reach its maximum “wild” size it would hardly be able to turn around in this tank. And though it likely won’t get that large in captivity, just growing up in this “too small” system will probably have deleterious effect on its long-term health, along with spawning abhorrent/aggressive behavior as it matures>>
The tank also contains a mix of various soft corals, Zoanthids, and mushrooms. I am considering adding 4 more fish and would like to hear your thoughts.
<<Sure>>
I would very much like to add a small angel such as a Flame or Coral Beauty.
<<Choose the Flame for sure… The Coral Beauty is an exquisite fish, and if a healthy and undamaged one can be obtained and acclimated (these can prove difficult) it can be quite hardy. But the Flame Angel has proven to be an exceptional aquarium specimen among Centropyge species, both hardy and easy to care for…and a real beauty itself to boot>>
I would also like to get 3 Yellow-tail or Azure Damselfish. Does adding these fish seem to be a wise decision?
<<This number of this size fishes is fine, though the Damsels are a bit of a gamble re getting along…perhaps a trio of Cardinal fishes…The Pajama or Longspine maybe>>
If so, what order should these be added in?
<<Between the Angel and the Damsels, I don’t think it matters…if you go with Cardinals then place these before the Angel…though I think the established Dottyback is the real concern re any of these new additions>>
Thanks for any suggestions or comments you can provide.
Clay
<<Quite welcome, EricR>>

Re: Fish Selection, FO    8/9/08
Dear WWM,
Ok I have changed my fish selection for my 90 gallon:
1) 3-5 Bartlett's Anthias
2) Chalk Basslet
3) Rainford's Goby
4) Divided Leopard Wrasse
<Had to look this up: Macropharyngodon bipartitus bipartitus
Not an easy fish to find in good condition, or keep in captivity>
5) Firefish
<Social species... need to be kept in a group, pairs, depending on which...>
Do you think this is a good selection, the only one I am worried about is the Divided Leopard Wrasse, but I have read they are very peaceful?
<Are... just not very hardy, adaptable to aquarium settings. But can be kept>
With the Anthias do you think I should do a combination of females and a male, or should I just do females?
<I'd have a male for sure... or one of the group will turn into such...>
Also, what order to you think I should add them into my tank, and how far apart should each addition be?
Alex
<The Labrid and Microdesmids last... a few weeks twixt the others, these last a few months after. Bob Fenner>

Eel, Trigger, Large Tang - Tank Size... FO stkg. f'   8/7/08
I have perused several posts in the FAQ's and I think my specific question has not been answered, but I think I may have an idea what the answer is:
<Ok>
I want to set up a tank for an eel (Zebra moray, probably), a trigger (Rhinecanthus rectangulus, probably), and one other fish, possibly a butterfly or a suitable tang (Convict?).
<Acanthurus triostegus? The Manini? Am out in HI currently... this is a social species... not really happy, healthy kept individually. Maybe a Kole instead... see WWM re>
My main question concerns the size of the tank. I have a 150 gallon that is four feet long, two feet wide, and 31 inches deep, which seems suitable in terms of volume, and offers some options for free swimming since I plan to arrange it so there is a continuous "track" around the outside so a fish could rapidly circle the tank continuously without running into any obstructions. In this way it is probably not typical of the tanks that your posts usually assume.
<Agreed, and much better>
You've told many people that no tank less than six feet long is acceptable for a trigger,
<Mmm, not I... but def. the bigger the better>
and usually then you reference the size, no smaller than 90 gals or so. To be certain about it, would you say that a four-foot long tank offering a nearly 10 foot perimeter for free swimming would be suitable, or would something like a six-foot 135 gallon be preferable just because of the linear distance along one side, even though it would not be practical to have a "raceway" around the whole tank and it would not be as deep?
<Good point, and I think you should be fine here with the species in question>
As for the other questions: Would a convict tang be likely to hold his/her own with a rectangulus (given that I know the individuals are unpredictable and things could always go south as the trigger grows)?
Is there another tang that would do better (preferably one that is native to Hawaii as I'm sort of striving for a biotope if I can do it)
<Yes... the Ctenochaetus mentioned... otherwise... not hard to search your choices>
or would a saddleback or other type of butterfly be more likely?
<Mmm, not an ephippium... see WWM re better/best BF's... there's an article or two>
Will the trigger tend to control algae growth
<? No>
as well as a tang would, or do they just snack on algae? I was thinking that I needed someone to help with algae control since I won't likely be able to keep a significant population of cleaners.
Thanks,
Brad Churchill
<Again, the Bristlemouth Tangs... Bob Fenner>

FO lvstkg., GIGO    8/6/08
Hi,
I have a Lunar wrasse, Niger trigger, and a Foxface. I have had the wrasse and trigger for over 2 years, the Foxface I
have had for a year. I want to get more fish. Could you suggest what would be compatible. I know whatever I buy
should be same size or bigger than what I already have. I have a 97 gallon corner unit, with a lot of live rocks, I
used to have snails, crabs, and shrimp. The wrasse used to pluck the snails off the glass till they disappeared.
Please advise
<Mmm, you may well have trouble with the Wrasse and Trigger, even the Siganid, with any new fish additions... as these animals are territorial, and this is really not much space... I would rather you take a read on WWM, reference books and ask in turn what your likely "odds" are with any given choice of additions here. Perhaps start here: http://wetwebmedia.com/folvstkgfaqs.htm
Bob Fenner>

Fish Only Tank, 120 stkg., filtr.    7/23/08
Hey guys thanks for your time.
I am looking to convert my 120 tall to a fo system. I would like to have a dogface puffer, niger trigger and a Humu.
<Mmm, do make sure all are getting foods>
No live sand or rock.
<I would use LR...>
I was wondering if this tank is big enough for all 3.
<A bit crowded psychologically, but with proper set-up, maintenance, could be made to work>
I currently have a Rena xp3, a magnum 350 deluxe with bio wheel and a penguin 330. Would this filtration be enough for what I hope to do.
<Mmm, I would look into other types of filtration other than canister, outside power... and have more circulation. Likely otherwise you'll be constantly fighting the mal-affects of nutrient accumulation>
Also, is it a must to have a skimmer?
<I definitely would with this set-up, stocking>
I have been told it is not but I will need to do more frequent water changes than if I did.
<False economy... more expensive, less fun...>
I have a 35 gallon reef with a rio nano skimmer but I'm sure it would do no good on this system. Thank you for your advice, it is greatly appreciated.
<Mmm, do a bit of reading here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm
the first Index... on FO set ups, the second Index on Filtration... Bob Fenner>

Stkg. FO 125  7/22/08
Hey guys,
just a quick question, can a bird wrasse and a harlequin Tuskfish live together peacefully in a 125 gal?
<Should, yes>
There also is a porcupine puffer, antennata lionfish, powder blue surgeonfish
<The most sensitive here>
and possibly a Pinktail triggerfish? thanks!!
<The lion is too likely to get picked on, starved out by the Puffer and Trigger... Bob Fenner>

80 gallon... FO stkg., induced troubles, now and later  7/11/08
I have a clown trigger, Huma Huma trigger each about an inch big. A clown fish (2 inches), a valentini puffer about 3 inches, 1 yellow tail damsel, 1 Sailfin tang about (5 inches), and a dwarf lion about 2 inches in a 80 gallon tank.
<Mmm, the Clown Trigger will too likely "go after" the Lion, the rest of the fishes, the Rhinecanthus last, here... w/o any notice... I would remove it soon>
How long before I have to move out the triggers?
<Maybe months, perhaps a year... but...>
And can I add anymore fish to it? I was looking at a flame Hawkfish
<I would remove the triggers first... The Lion will likely inhale the Hawk, Clown, damsel... Bob Fenner>

General and specific salt water questions... FO Stocking and the nature of, but not the, truth  – 07/10/08
Hi guys,
This might be a drawn out explanation but I thought it best that you get the background and most information as possible. I thought I had been well educated from research and unfortunately trial and error in some cases on maintaining salt water tanks over the years and have gotten information from several local fish stores in my area so when I received collaborating information it seemed good and when I got conflicting information I tried to do some of my own research.
<Quite a lead-in>
But I have ventured into areas I have no experience in recently and came across your website and you guys seem to be the place to get the most abundant, accurate, and detailed information. so here goes.
I have had salt water fish only tanks since 2001. started out with a 55 gallon long with a hang on back overflow and an AMiracle sump system, I also added a protein skimmer into the sump. had a few fish in that tank, small ones like a clown and small angel (Koran I believe, have to forgive its been awhile) and some blue damsels and chromis. I moved in 2003 and unfortunately during the move the frame around the tank was broken and I did not want to chance the tank giving out so I bought a 65 gallon to replace it. I am much happier with that overall size and space inside then the longer skinny 55.
at the new place over the course of 3 1/2 years I had the clown some red leg hermit crabs, emerald crabs (although I seem to have trouble keeping the emeralds for more then a few months) the blue damsels and chromis( I believe only 2 each), tried a long nosed butterfly to no avail, after I lost one chromis and the butterfly probably 6 months apart, I ventured into more predatory fish.
The tank still had the sump and protein skimmer, probably about 10 lbs of live rock, an equal size amount of lace rock
<Some of this can be trouble chemically>
however a lot lighter of course all for structure.
<Eats bushes... then leaves?>
and a crushed coral bottom. also a powerhead with rotating arm to provide addition water circulation.
I bought a very small snowflake eel ( probably only 5 inches long and about as thin as a number 2 pencil) to go with the clown and 3 damsels left. the fish were fed a marine flake food mostly and about 1 - 2 times a week were given frozen mysis shrimp, live or frozen brine shrimp, or frozen Cyclopeeze. basically a variety of other frozen foods to supplement the flake food nutrition. the ell was fed ghost shrimp, frozen krill, squid pieces by hand and also small goldfish
<...>
that were kept and fed Cyclopeeze to help boost there nutrition for the eel. once the eel had gotten too large to be safely kept with the other fish ( unfortunately after the clown mysteriously disappeared) he was transferred into a 29 gallon tank with a Fluval 300 canister filter ( it can handle up to 75 gallons according to their information and was overkill for the 29 gallon tank but was bought with intentions to switch to the 65 gallon fish only tank)
the snowflake thrived in his own tank and about a year and a half ago I added a very small Tessalata eel and a very small lion fish.
<... you're joking? In a 29 gallon volume?>
I just recently moved again unfortunately and donated the damsels left back to my fish store and only kept the Volitans lion which is now about 7 - 8 inches long and "mane" when he spreads it is about the same, the snowflake is 15 inches long and about the thickness of a fat highlighter, ( sorry about the crude size comparison but its easiest I think to picture).
<A good one>
the Tessalata is only about 10 to 12 inches and only about 1/2 to 2/3 the thickness of the snowflake.
I have read through some of your responses to people questions and often tell people that their tank size is undersized for what the have as they grow. however they have what I think is more then adequate room to swim
<Mmm, no>
and I do have intentions of upgrading the size of their tank as they grow more. the lion is now on of the largest I have seen in person and never seen any for sale as large as mine so I am not sure how much larger he will get but I know the 2 eels will grow quite a bit over the next few years.
I was recently graced with a banded shark egg however as a surprise gift from my girlfriend who just started a job at a different local fish store. according to the people she works with they told her it would be ok for 8 months or so in that size aquarium until we save the money to upgrade.
<Mmm, no again>
but to watch the "newborn" once he hatches around the lion depending on size ratios he might be seen as food for the lion. but he should be large enough once hatched to not be seen as food for the eels.
I have intentions
<The road to heck is paved with them>
of upgrading to a 220 gallon tank she has at her store with internal overflows, and either a separate refugium and sump or one large combined unit underneath and transferring all 4 of those to that large tank once its needed.
my biggest questions are am I doing this all wrong????
<A bit stultified, yes... instead of "intending" to do things... there is another POV... that is providing adequate circumstances in advance of eventualities... Sort of like planning for retirement financially if you will>
do you think I will need a larger tank for all 4 of them?
<Definitely>
I love my lion and eels
<Mmm, were there time, interest, I'd like to banter with you re def. of "love"... To me, loving something is looking out for its best interests, not what it can/will do for you. Is this what you have done here?>
and cant wait for the shark to hatch. these more predatory animals to me are a lot more interesting of a fish tank to have then more standard marine fish.
<Fishes>
so I am willing to go get what is needed for them to be healthy and happy.
<Oh!>
space provided of course! I don't have room or money for 500+ gallon tank just yet!
also any links or advice on a better diet or more correct diet for my lion and eels and future little guy would be greatly appreciated.
<Already posted, archived, ready for you to read on WWM... look up the family accounts for what you have, intend to keep...>
like I said I thought I was pretty well educated on caring for salt water fish but after reading a lot of post on your site I am afraid I am another very under educated aquarium hobbyist
<I feel the same>
Thanks for any and all help
Dave
<Glad to co-conspire with you. Bob Fenner>

Re: general and specific salt water questions... Stocking and the nature of, but not the, truth... More ludicrous stmt.s  7/11/08
Thanks for the quick response Bob. It seems that while my intentions might have been good they have taken too long to put into action. I will do some more research on the site for help with more proper feeding and all but had a couple quick questions. I have gotten and seen several differences in opinions and haven't come across an example quite like my situation. so i thought it best to try to get a more direct answer.
At present i plan on keeping all 4. The 65 is the only tank set up at the moment with the lion and two eels, but i still do have the 29 that i can set back up again if needed.
<Good>
I would like to keep all of them in the same tank together if its possible, but you said that the 220 will not be large enough for those 4.
<Oh! It will be for a few years. Likely the shark will perish, and the piscivorous Muraenid will eat the other tankmates in turn during this time>
from what i have read the banded shark requires a min of 180 gallons.
so what size would i need to get or build in order to comfortably house them all together.
<... "they" really don't go together... again, please just read re these species... Your answers are posted on WWM. The Tesselata... gets huge, is a fish, other moray eater...>
also the possible addition of a second lion and i have had interest in a small blue spotted stingray
<... No...>
( i apologize for not knowing the name they are always listed as spotted stingray in the LFS) but i believe i have read in articles on your site that they stir up too much sand for the shark. is that correct?
<... please, don't write... Read instead>
so it might just come down to a second lionfish to go along with the one i presently have, the two eels, and soon to hatch shark.
i also was wondering if i should oversize the filter setup for what size tank i should get given they produce a lot of waste or will one suited for the tank size be ok.
one last question, i was pondering building a large tank for these guys instead of buying one and have found loads of info on the site and people referencing a how to section but i cant seem to find it. can you direct me on what to look for or search for? everything i seem to find is specific accounts or questions on what people are currently making. is there a general guide on what's needed and the do or don'ts?
<Where you should be, have started in the first place: http://wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/question_page.htm
RMF>

Bicolor Blenny or Wrasse?   6/19/08
Morning crew!
I have spent the last few hours going over all... well not all but most of the information on your site about blennies/wrasse. I am currently trying to figure out which fish
<There are quite a few (hundreds) of Labrids...>
to add next to my set-up. It will either be a blenny (most likely bi-color unless a wet web guru points me in another direction) or a Wrasse probably six line. I am leaning more towards the blenny since I am planning on adding a cleaner ship down the road. My tank currently is 50gallon breeder with a 2" sand bed and about 50lbs rock, also a 20gallon sump complete with a euro-reef 6-2+ modded skimmer, refugium and working on a DSB and Chaeto for the sump as well. Inverts: 2 small Turbos a serpent star and black sea cucumber. The fish load is as follows: smaller Kole tang around 3.5" pair of clowns about 2" a little chromis and an Anthias about 4" I realize I am just about at my fish stocking limit however I feel with such a massive skimmer on such a small system I think I can pull this off, plus
whenever the daylights are on in the tank my fish are always! almost "schooling" together...never a foot apart from each other (maybe they all just love each other) No major problems with this other than the occasional chase...but no tail nipping or damaged fins. So now for the official questions! Would a bi-color fare well in this set-up?
<Likely so... esp. if there's sufficient rock work/cover>
Are they/is there a hardier type of blenny that would fit my set-up?
<... an Ecsenius species is a good choice for such a small volume>
I find blennies very very cool! I like how they swim and how they have camouflage patters to help them blend in. I realize the bi-color is a comb-tooth species of blenny, do you think the blenny and the Kole tang would go after each other due to algae territory?
<Likely not>
I keep the Kole very well fed with an algae clip and he's always picking at the glass (I read this is something else the bicolor would do). Would you recommend a different kind of blenny? Would adding a blenny/wrasse to the current set up pose a risk of overstock?
<No, no>
If so I could remove the Anthias or chromis to accommodate a new addition. I would like to her some expert opinion and advice on which fish to add next to my tank.
<... too many choices>
If I opted to not add a cleaner shrimp down the road would a six line be a better choice overall?...
<No>
I'm kind of at a crossroad here and need some help/advice. Thanks again for the amazing website and plethora of information on your site, it really has helped me out greatly.
<Am glad you're enjoying, gaining from our efforts. Bob Fenner>

(no subject)- stocking? 6/13/08
What livestock would you recommend me putting in my 55 gallons tank?
<Heeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Fresh, brackish... wha? Keep reading... BobF>

50 Gallons of fish in a 5-Gallon Pail - 6/13/08
I have a 55 gallon tank. Would I be able to put a small maroon clown, a baby Huma Huma, and a baby porcupine puffer in there?
<Most certainly not. These fish would fight and be too crowded from the beginning, as they grew the problem would only become worse. Heavy feeding to sustain these fish would require tremendous water changes frequently. Also, please use punctuation and standard English syntax/grammar. It saves us time and effort, and do remember these will be archived for posterity on our website. Thanks much, Benjamin>

Compatibility, Large Tank, Large Angels, Butterflies, Stocking. - 6/7/08 *Bob or others, take a look, comment.*
I know I am annoying you guys so much but I just want to have a perfect tank...
<Don't we all? No annoyance to answer questions, it's what we're here for.>
please see that will these fish live happily together in an 800 gallon tank with plenty of hiding places and food.
<I envy your huge tank! Let's see about these fish...>
1 blue-ring angelfish 5-6 in
1 emperor angel 5-6in
1 majestic angel 5-6 in
1 Blueface angel 5-6 in
1 queen angel 6-7 in
1 Koran angel 7-8 inches
2 flame angels 3-4 in
4 regal tang 2-3 in
2 yellow tang 3-4in
2 purple tang 3-4 in
1 Desjardin sailfin tang 4-5 in
1 powder blue tang 3-4 inches
1 Dussumieri tang 5-6 inches
1 Naso tang 5-6 inches
3 falcula butterflyfish 3-4 in
2 golden butterflyfish 3-4 in
3 Bannerfish 3-4 inches
2 sandsifting gobies 3-4 in
1 magnificent rabbitfish 5-6 in
2 niger triggers 3-4 in
1 black trigger 5-6 in
1 male blue throat trigger 5-6 in
2 cleaner wrasse
Now I know it seems a bit overstocking
<It is, and more than a bit, in my opinion>
but I know from sources that most fish don't reach their adult size in captivity no matter what size aquarium.
<This might be because in an overstocked system they won't live long enough! Ignore this source...they are wrong. Furthermore, the greatest measure of stocking is not in inches of fish, but in psychological interactions. No matter how big a filter you have, fish will feel crowded...you're going to be dealing with stressed fish, and therefore lowered immune systems. Territorial doesn't begin to describe some of these fish, and they may fight or refuse to feed from the beginning>
Also about the cleaner wrasse, there will be so many fish they can feed off of and will not have food problems. I have specifically ordered this aquarium for the angelfish because people say you need a big one to keep this many.
<A very big one.>
And also my petshop has around 8 large angelfish species in their display and they never had problems for 2 years.
<Very short time compared to the lifespan of a marine angelfish.>
My LFS is reliable and can specifically order a specimen for me. They will even keep it for 2-3 weeks after the payment to ensure that the customer receives a good specimen. I will design my tank to have many hiding places at the back 18 inches or so
and leave the front with only some decoration so that the fish have both hiding and swimming places.
<I would provide cover in the form of live rock structure through most of the tank- pillars and arches will provide cover and swimming space. 18" of rock wall at the back simply won't house all these territorial fish.>
Please tell me your opinion on this...
<I think you're probably shooting for more than is possible here, but you certainly have an opportunity for a very, very neat aquarium. I'm not experienced enough with large aquaria to say exactly what I might put in here, or if your plan is entirely unfeasible- I'll flag this so that another crew member can comment as well.>
thank you
<Welcome. Benjamin>

Time to setup a new tank, but with some stocking questions related to large Marine Angels. Many different opinions out there.
Big Aquarium- Big Fish?   3/12/08
Hey Crew,
<Hey there! Scott F. in today!>
I had to take down my tank about a year ago and sell it, due to the real world getting in the way of my hobbies.
<How does THAT happen? LOL>
Now, I have a brand new 125G (72"L x 18"W) tank, about 165 pounds of live rock, 140 pounds of live sand and a bunch of different ideas for stocking!
<Nice position to be in!>
I have been reading WWM a lot as well as a few other sites. I hear and read a lot of differing opinions and have heard many different stories from friends to guy next to me at the LFS. I know that Bob and Scott Michael tend to vary a bit in their writings on minimum tank sizes for certain species.
Maybe my answer will be in the middle.
<Perhaps both Bob and Scott would tell you that they are offering suggestions for each species, and that these are based on their experiences and judgments. Like so many things in the hobby, this can vary.>
The main issue that I have is that you guys say my tank is too small for a large marine angel. Others say I should be ok. Let's say the Queen or Emperor Angel I buy (just an example) does reach 18" long, so wouldn't a 215G be too small as well? It's only another 6" in terms of width. I would think that the fish would still be cramped. I hope I am not coming off as rude or argumentative, just seeking an unbiased answer. You guys write to people with the fishes' best interest and not of the aquarist or LFS. I can appreciate that, and that is why I am writing you.
<I agree with you. I am pretty conservative in my stocking philosophy, and I would not even think of keeping a full-sized angel in any aquarium less than 8 feet in length. To be quite honest, I am not a fan of keeping these fishes at all, which is certainly against the grain of many of my peers. Many of these fishes range over huge tracts of reef in nature, and really deserve to live their lives in extremely large surroundings. Anything else is like you or having to be confined to our living rooms for the rest of our lives: Survivable, but intolerable over time.>
I am still in the planning stage and trying to look ahead to any problems. I had a juv. Emperor for about a year and a half before he ended up dying. I just didn't have the time to take care of him or the tank properly and he suffered for it. I ended up having to euthanize him. I gave my other fishes away to a friend. It sucks, but it happens. I have to say that he really was an endearing fish and that I would really like to try again. In this sized tank, just how long would one last (assuming everything goes well and he does well in captivity) starting from a 2-3" juv. specimen? If it is a few years, then I will go for it.
<I really don't think it would be that long. Maybe a year or two, if that. Although these fishes do not grow super fast, they can grow quicker than we might like, and do need correspondingly large quarters as they grow. I do not subscribe to the theory that "they will grow to the size of their aquariums.">
Or, are there really any large angels that would be ok in that system for the long haul? Some say an Emperor can last for the long haul, some disagree.
<Last, sure. Thrive? It depends, really, on what your definition of "thriving" is. I am probably a bit too biased, but I'm skeptical of their long-term viability in anything less than aquariums of hundreds of gallons of volume.>
I am also considering a Blue Angel (H. bermudensis) or a Blue-Ringed Angel (P. Annularis). Or would it be different species, same problem? Maybe I would be better with just 2 dwarf angels.
<I would definitely consider the Dwarf Angel pair or trio instead.>
I am not looking more than a few years into the future regarding keeping the fishes as I have learned a lot can happen before you know it and keeping fishes may not fit into your life. We all plan/hope for the best when starting out new endeavors, but I know it doesn't always work out that way.
<Absolutely. I'm glad you feel this way.>
But at the same time, I believe if someone is to do something, then he/she should do it right or at least to the best of his/her abilities. Who knows, I could have the means (and space) to get a 1,000G system in a few years. If it turns out the fish outgrows the tank, I will act in the best interest of the fish. I will either donate it, trade it or upgrade to a bigger tank. I will cross that bridge when/if I get there.
<Yes...and best not to assume that you will have such a system available in the future.>
I would really like to try my hand again at an Achilles Tang, but maybe that one is just better left in the ocean. The last one I had I thought would be the 1 out of 10 that would make it. Seemed well adjusted socially/mentally and readily accepted food, put my Blue Hippo to shame as far as wolfing down food goes... Bob and I exchanged a few emails and he suggested Spectrum. The fish just turned his nose at it. Every fish has its own taste I guess. Everything seemed to be going great and one day I go to turn the light on and the fish is as dead as dead can be. From what I have been reading the last few months, I am not alone in this experience. I guess that is what "just not well suited for captivity" means.
<Perhaps!>
It seems that the Gold Rim Tang (A. Nigricans) is a better choice. But how much better is it really? I also read that it really isn't much easier than the Achilles Tang. Am I going from "darn near impossible" to "likely impossible" with the Gold Rim? Some say the Gold Rim is under the "moderate" level of care. I don't know why, but those two just appeal to me more than any other.
<I'd be doing a disservice to you if I said it was an easy fish to keep. However, it is not impossible. Many criteria come into play when considering keeping such a fish (ie; the source, handling,etc. of the fish before it arrives at your LFS).>
Basically what I am looking at is this: (all of them would be considered small/juv. {2-3" when purchased})
One large angel (in juv. form of the variety listed above, although most likely Emperor)
One Flame Angel
One Blue Hippo Tang
A pair of clowns (either Maroon or Percula)
Maybe one Achilles or Gold Rim
Maybe a Butterfly (I wish the Ornate was on the good list)
I don't think that sounds overstocked, what do you guys think? Any thoughts or opinions are welcome even if not what I want to hear.
<Well, you asked. To be honest, I believe that this is too much bioload for this system. You really need to pare down the stocking list to only one of the two larger Tangs (either the Hippo or the Gold Rim).>
Trust me; I don't want to be that guy who stuffed 25+ angels into a 250G tank. That article was insane.
<Yep!>
Best Wishes to you all,
Jeremy
<Well, Jeremy, I think you hit it on the head. Responsible stocking involves taking into account a multitude of factors, many of which you have already addressed. Go with your gut feelings and your fish will benefit! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Stocking Question, too crowded FO...  03/10/2008
Hi,
<<G'Morning, Andrew today>>
I am setting up a 55 gallon saltwater tank. The last inhabitant was a Camelback Cowfish which I had for 4 years. For the past 6 months I have been using the tank to grow Caulerpa and just recently drained it, added new water, new substrate, cleaned filter etc. . I plan on having: 1 pair Banggai Cardinals, 1 pair Black Ocellaris and 1 pair Neon gobies.
<<A nice stocking list>>
My question is could I add a pair of Dottybacks to this? Maybe orchid or sunrise? The fish are all captive bred.
<<I would not add anymore fish to the 55 after the above stocking levels are achieved ( 6 fish )>>
The Banggai's, Neons and Dottybacks will be from Inland Aquatics and will be bonded pairs. If the Dottybacks won't work could I add 1 yellow tang?
<<No yellow tang in a 55, sorry>>
Also depending on what I end up with and if I find another Camelback Cowfish could I add it or would that be too many fish? Thanks in advance.
Tucker Minnick, Alaska
<<Thanks for the questions, Hope this helps. A Nixon>>

Marine Compatibility, FO  03/03/2008
Hello,
<<Hello, Andrew today>>
I've sent you guys emails before and received great advice in return. I have always managed and kept aquariums of my own and for others, all freshwater. But now i would like to deal with saltwater. I currently have a 35 gallon tank set-up with about an inch of sand and some live rock. The tank is also cycled by a canister filter that is able to filter tanks up to 55 gallons in size. I decided to start small due to the fact this will be my first saltwater aquarium.
<<As its your first marine aquarium, keep a close eye on parameters, as these can swing pretty quickly in a small system>>
My problem is compatibility of the fish i would like to stock the tank with. I have done research pertaining to this matter but i have received many different opinions from some marine compatibility charts. My desired livestock includes, 1 ocellaris clownfish, 1Orange line chromis, 1 royal Gramma Basslet and 1 Six Line Wrasse. Could you please send me something in return about this community and its compatibility.
<<I would leave out the chromis as they do better in groups of 5 or more.. No problems with the clown or Gramma.. Would add the wrasse last of all. These can be a little boisterous in a smaller system such as this>>
Also if this does not work out could you send me something of the sort about what would you do. Thanks.
<<Maybe swap the chromis for a goby>>
<<Thanks for the questions, hope this helps. A Nixon>>

Fish stocking, Marine, FO  2/28/08
WWM
<Hello>
I just had a question about my 75 gallon saltwater tank. My tank has been up and running for 6 months. It is filtered by a Fluval 405 and BakPak skimmer. I Know I need to upgrade to a sump pump and better skimmer, but can't afford it at this time.
<Definitely start saving for a more powerful skimmer, while I like the BakPaks it is not enough for this tank.>
My question is with this filtration am I overstocked with the fish I currently have in it or fine?
2 True Percula clowns
6 green chromis (small)
1 coral beauty
1 pajama cardinal
1 Sixline wrasse
1 lawnmower blenny
1 neon goby
If you could please let me know what you think, at this time all my levels test great. Thank for all your help. Also do you think a single medium sized blue reef chromis would be alright to add?
<You are ok now, but I would not add any more fish.>
Evert
<Chris>

Fish only system, Stocking Options 2/27/08
Hi there,
<Hello>
I have been running a reef tank with assorted soft corals and various forms of aquatic inverts and fishes for a couple of years now. I am now bored with my current setup and wish to delve more into the realms of a fish only system where I believe I have a greater choice of fish available. I currently now have the following: 4ft (200L) tank with 10Kilos of live rock, two canister filters and protein skimmer. Yellow Tang,
<Too big for a 200L (52 US Gallons).
3 x Sea Bass Anthias and 1 x pair b/w clown fishes (percula). The only Inverts I have left are two brittle stars, one large black (18") and one small grey/green (7"),
<Greens are often fish eaters>
but I am considering returning them to the fish shop if they restrict my choice of fish.
<Have been known to eat small cave dwelling or sleeping fish.>
I am particularly interested in a Clown Trigger,
<Gets up too 16 inches, too big for this tank>
Guinea Fowl puffer
<20+ inches>
and a Picasso trigger.
<A good foot on these, I would look at getting a bigger tank or find smaller fish here.>
I know I could have issues of aggression towards my existing fish from the Triggers (not an exact science I believe)
<Pretty exact actually, they will likely attack at some point, just read an article in a dive magazine about a diver's run in with a clown, including pictures of his fins with nice 1/2 inch semi-circle trigger holes, they are territorial and an aquarium will quickly be claimed as their "house".>
and perhaps an eating fish/capacity issue with the puffer.
<I think you will have capacity issues with any of these fish.>
Do you have any suggestions for an experienced reef keeper?
<Get a larger tank, the mix could likely work from an aggression standpoint with a much larger tank.>
Some bright ideas about what fish alternatives would be most welcome.
<Realistically you should be aiming for fish that max out under 6 inches in my opinion.>
I would like to have a "clean up crew" as well but a little unsure of what would become an expensive meal.
<With triggers and puffers you need to be the clean-up crew, most anything with a shell will be lunch.>
Would any species of starfish, goby, large Hermit crab be suitable?
<Only as an expensive meals.>
Cheers,
Andrew Deacon
<Chris>

Aggressive Foxface Lo... FO mix jammed into too small a volume    2/11/08
I have searched all over and cannot find any info on this.
<This?>
I have a 75 gallon fish only tank. Contents are 1 Volitans Lion, 1 Stars & Stripes Puffer,
<Needs more room>
1 Snowflake Eel, 1 Maroon Clown, 1 Foxface. All of which are 3-4" in size and I will be upgrading to a much larger tank very soon.
<Ah, good>
When I got the Philbert, the Foxface, he immediately became best friends with the clown and follows the clown everywhere. I have had the Foxface for about 4 months and he has always been very docile and calm. Now the clown has also been docile, he has now started guard a certain cave. ( This is very funny to me. He seems consumed with this cave and guarding it.)
<Natural behavior>
Since this started the Foxface has started to become mean to my other fish (not the clown, though, he loves the clown). He will not let the eel come out of any hole or crevice. He lays his body over the hole the eel sticks his head out and then he tries to stick him with his venomous spines. This started about a week ago and the eel just ignores him and goes about his business, usually moving to another area of the tank or just burying himself under the rocks. But now, he is going after my puffer. This is stressing out the puffer because he cant really get away
<The system is too small... for this mix of fishes>
and find peace because the Foxface will follow him anywhere and rub up against him and the puffer just curls up and lays down on the bottom somewhere and waits till he gives up. I am worried that the Foxface could possibly poison my eel or puffer. Please help if you can.
<Only you can help... either move some fish/es or get another adequate sized system... this one is too puny for this assortment behaviorally. Bob Fenner>

Compatibility Issues, FO SW   2-10-08
Hello WWM Crew, and hope you're having a good day.
<Hey - lots of studying!>
I have a compatibility question.
<Alrighty then>
I will be moving my existing fish: 2 Banggai cardinals, a maroon/gold clown, a black percula clown, a PJ cardinal a blue hippo tang, and a flame angel into a new 125 gal tank I am purchasing.
<A small-ish tank for an adult hippo tang, I would go larger than this>
All of the current fish get along fantastically, and the 2 clowns have their own "homes" in the tank and everything is peaceful. I am hoping moving everyone to a new and bigger home will not cause the now peaceful fish to suddenly start fighting, but I know that I should still
keep an eye on things obviously.
<Moving rockwork around will help break up any territorial disputes that may arise>
My question is, I had planned on introducing some qt'd fish simultaneously when I do move the fish over, so that there are no established territories in the new tank. I have not purchased the qt'd fish (yet) but before I do, I wanted to ask about compatibility. I had planned on adding an Emperor angel (juvenile approx 2-3"), and a longnose butterfly. I also was thinking of adding a copperband butterfly as well. Do you see any compatibility issues I should be concerned about, and do you think the 2 butterflies can co-exist if introduced at the same time?
<Once again, I would purchase a larger aquarium if you want to keep open water swimmers such as an Emperor angel or a Hippo tang. 220+ gallons is what I would recommend. Regarding the butterflyfish, I've personally never kept them, but species with similar size/coloration shouldn't be mixed. Personally, I'd go with one or the other, not both>
Thank you, as always, for your time and information.
<Anytime>
Mike P.
<M. Maddox>

Another en medea res msg. w/ no prev. corr., ridiculous, untenable FO and Echinoid mix   2/1/08
Hi guys,
<JCF>
Once again I'd like to thank you and come back for more advice, last time you were very helpful.
<Prev. corr.?>
its regarding more invaders, it seems to be a pink bristle worm, (Annelida I think not sure though),
I have a predatory tank with a Picasso, undulated, Pinktail, niger triggerfish, Brazilian horned eel, lionfish, wrasse,
grouper, yellow tang and 4 urchins.
<Future trouble...>
Do I have anything to worry about? should it be removed? cause I found 1 does it mean there's more? Will my fish just eat it?
<... I'd be reading re the Systems, Compatibility of what you list. This won't work>
Thanks for your time,
Chris
<Get reading. BobF>

Fish selection... FO to Reef  01/31/2008
Hi!
<<Hello, Andrew today>>
I am soon going to be setting up a 55 gallon tank. At the moment the two fish I have to be moved in are a Percula Clown and a black Ocellaris Clown. They are best buddies and spend 24 hours a day at each others side. This new tank will be a reef tank and I would like to check that my choice of fish are suited to each other and also suitable to live in a reef tank. I would like to add a couple more clowns. Wo