Garlic Supplement (as Crypt trtmt.) and High Nitrates (rel.?)   02/19/2008
I have 30 and 75 gallon tanks salt water/reef set ups. A week after adding a fish to the 75, I noticed white spots this fish (only this fish). My LFS suggested soaking the food in "Garlic Guard" by Seachem. I would then feed both tanks with this food. The white spots disappeared within a week but the store suggested that I feed the supplement for a full month because if it was ick, the disease would come back in about a month.
<<Feeding a fish garlic will not fight or remove Ich. The fish needs to be removed and placed in quarantine and treated>>
I took readings recently in both tanks and the nitrates were high, extremely high in the 30 tank. Could the supplement be causing my problem?
<<If you feeding a lot, then, yes its possible>>
Since diagnosing the problem, I've drained about 20 gallons of water from the 30 gallon tank and intend to drain about the same amount in the next couple of days. Any other suggestions? Thanks.
<<Quarantine the fish, back off the feeding a little to once per day, or even once every two days. Continue water changes until nitrates are under control. Please read here and linked articles and FAQ's regarding Crypto http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm >>
Larry
<<Thanks for the questions Larry, hope the above helps. A Nixon>>

Reef tank ich; dealing with vampires – 01/28/2008
OK, so I have been fighting with ich in my reef tank for two weeks. LFS recommended raising temp and feeding with garlic elixir.
<You also need to be using crucifixes to get rid of the little vampires…
Really, while garlic was shown to be able to kill freshwater Ich (Ichthyophthirius multifilius) at ridiculously high concentrations, there is no proof whatsoever it will help with marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans). It probably won’t do any harm and the tank will get an exotic smell, but it also won’t kill the parasites.>
Temp raised to 83deg. No luck ich is getting worse visible on both my gold rim and powder blue tangs as well as my lawnmower blenny. Have an orange spot goby and a pair of maroon clowns with no signs yet. Decided to set up the QT tank and dose with product called copper power.
<Good decision. You also need a matching test kit to keep the copper level constant.>
From reading your FAQ I know to leave the affected fish in the QT tank for two weeks.
<Rather more.>
I have two questions. 1st should I have all of the fish in the QT tank during this time to clear the ich out of the main tank?
<Yes, you need to, anything else won’t work. Only a few fishes are more or less immune to Cryptocaryon, but even those should get some kind of treatment to be sure.>
2nd how long should it take for the ich to cycle out of the tank with non sick fish or no fish at all?
<At least 4 weeks, 6 are better. Please see http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm and http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm , which will answer your questions re marine ich in more detail.>
thanks, Dan
<Welcome. Marco.>

The Garlic Question….Mixing Sharks and Garlic 1/16
I heard from my LFS that adding garlic to my rays diet can boost his immune system. Is this true or will It kill him?
< http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/sp/index.php . Please read through this article by Steven Pro…in short garlic won’t kill him (unless he’s also a vampire; hehe), however there’s little study or evidence that makes me feel confident in saying it will help. I would personally prefer a proven vitamin supplement like Selcon or other similar products. **AJ.>

Star polyps and garlic 10/3/05
Hello guys, I just have a question on my Greenstar polyps that I purchased 2 1/2 mo.s ago. Everything is looking good and I can say that it's very happy since all the polyps are wide open swaying back and forth with the current. For some reason it just shut down! it's not opening for about 3 days now. I don't recall changing anything on my tank set up and cleaning schedules aside
from the fish food that I'm now soaking in garlic (Mysid & seaweed) since one of my tang is recovering from "ick", by the way he is now well and very clean and getting its weight back...eats like a wild boar!!! anyhow, do you think this might
cause the problem on my Greenstar? I already checked the water conditions and everything is ok.  It's just the same as the day I bought this coral 2 1/2 mo.s ago. Please advise. The rest of the corals are doing just fine also. Thanks in advance. Nemo1  <These corals occasionally close for periods of time.  It could be one of these normal cycles or it could be the garlic.  I would suggest stopping the garlic for a few days to see if the polyps return to normal.  In any case, I would not worry.  GSP's are very hardy and they will recover.  Glad to hear your fish is recovering!  Best Regards.  AdamC.>

Juv. Emperor Angel/Garlic and ‘Pod Population  9/30/05
Crew-
<Craig.>
I have a question about the use of garlic in my tank for appetite
stimulation. Since garlic is also used as a general antibiotic to fight
parasite infestations, would I be correct to infer that it might also
detrimentally impact my copepod and amphipod populations?
<I think you misunderstand the function of garlic. The logic behind garlic is that it builds up the immunity of the specimen you feed it too helping its body to deter parasites (personally I have not “bought into it” completely).  The garlic itself does not actually kill the parasites so I would have to say its very unlikely to impact pod populations.>
It seems to me that since parasites like ich seem to be similar in form to 'pods, that using garlic might compromise my mandarin's primary source of food in my system.
<No the garlic use should be fine, though I personally prefer Selcon as a nutritional supplement.>
The need for garlic is due to the fact that I have a TINY emperor angel (<3"!)
that my LFS received without requesting it. (It was far too small for their
expertise to keep alive- and yes he has large quarters available.) After 16
days in QT, it is imperative that he be moved to a display to have a chance to
pick around on the LR (they do tend to graze when small).
<I understand you have the needs of the emperor in mind but please to not forget your already established livestock. You could introduce unknown parasites/diseases with such as hasty QT.>
He has fed lightly at best (probably just enough to survive), but IMO he is not long for this world if he stays in QT. <While I agree that having the liverock to graze on would help the Emperor its possible that he may not survive despite being moved to a mature tank. As you know these fish are very sensitive, and at this size they are even more delicate.> Am I convinced that after 16 days in QT he is
parasite free? No, not really, but he currently manifests no signs.
<Some illnesses are not expressed for 3 weeks or more.>
So is garlic my best move to address the appetite stimulation issue and help guard
against a parasite infestation?
<As I mentioned above I prefer Selcon, you could also try fresh clam or scallop meat.>
I feel like I am playing chess,
Craig
<Sounds like you are doing your best just don’t over think, Adam J.>

Ich, garlic, ammonia... need to think, read, act
Hello, I just wanted to thank your crew for taking the time in responding to all the emails they get daily, I was having a real problem with ick in my tank that now seems to be getting under control ::Thanks God:: I did however have one tiny question (you know there had to be a catch;)  )) I am using the liquid garlic in my tank with the food I feed my fish since I don't have the money as of yet for a hospital tank, if that is what I hope is working in my tank how long should I continue to use it and how many times daily?
<Making this fresh is better/best... and use daily, with feedings/food>
I still see a little ick on two of my fish (the yellow tang whom also has little red dots??
<Very unlikely to effect a cure>
and my damsel) the ones that survived the ick infestation are on clown two damsels yellow tang and valentini puffer. I have also noticed that my ammonia is too high is there anything I can do to get it back down that wont stress my fish or hurt my star fish
Thanks Again! Amanda
<Read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nh3marfaqs.htm
and the linked files above... where you lead yourself.
Bob Fenner>

Ich, Trust, Pizza... 7/9/05
Hi Bob,
<Brian>
            I have a 54 gallon corner reef that a lady who is a total dummy
"looks after" because my parents don't trust me.
<...?>
We had set up the tank 6
months prior to her working for us. For the first six months everything went
smoothly until she came along. We had a small algae problem but she demanded
that we go out and buy a tang and goby. I had read over your site and still
hadn't found anything about gobies controlling algae.
<Maybe a Blenny... Salarias, Atrosalarias species...>
This was the first
hint of her brilliance. So we ended up running out and buying a sailfin tang
and a purple Dartfish.
<The latter don't eat algae>
We already had a six line wrasse that scared the
Dartfish into perpetual hiding so it slowly starved to death. A little later
we found a couple spots of ich on the tail of the tang. She recommended
garlic drops.
<Dismal>
My mom insisted that we make our own instead of buy them from
the store.
<Better, but still dismal>
I told her that there are things in garlic oil that are harmful
to fish. She didn't listen. We killed off every thing and my mom immediately
blamed me. She said from now on Robyn would bring the fish and coral. I
thought this was a bad idea. But 6 months later my tank has/had 1 sailfin
tang, 2 percula clowns, 1 sixline wrasse, 1 hippo tang, 1 diamond watchman
goby, 1 cleaner shrimp, 3 peppermint shrimp, 1 Toadstool, 1 xenia, a bunch of
zooanthids, some starburst polyps, and a bunch of mushrooms. 3 weeks ago the
sailfin tang had some ich cysts on his tail. She said to treat it with
garlic drops. I asked her about a quarantine/hospital tank, she said it was
unnecessary and told me to soak the food in the garlic drops. The condition
has spread to everything and we already lost the goby. I called her
yesterday she said to soak the food for 30 minutes. Now it looks like only
2-3 of the 7 fish will pull through. Help! I feel terrible about this. Is
there anything to do now?
Brian     
<Please have your mom, service read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm
and on to the linked files at top... and re Garlic (great on pizza's, pastas, some soups, various middle-eastern and oriental dishes...) not an effective medicine. Bob Fenner>

Skimmer stopped working
Hi,
<Hello>
I started to add some garlic to the fish food 4 days ago. It is liquid and is very slimy. About the same time, my AquaMedic 5000 baby stopped producing any foam at all. I have cleaned the whole thing with water. Could the garlic have done something to the sides of the skimmer and collection cup?
<Yepster>
If so, how would I clean it as normal water has obviously done nothing.
Thanks in advance,
James
<Time wounds all heels and will eventually clear out the oil from the garlic incident. Now, I've got to go howl at the moon. Woooohhhh! Bob Fenner>

Garlic, ich "medications"
>Hello Bob...
>>Hello, Marina here.
>I have problem .. my yellow tang started showing signs of ich about 4 days ago. Since I have a reef, I couldn't add any meds to the tank, so I took the advice of a friend who runs a pet shop and started adding liquid garlic to the food I feed my fish. He said the parasites couldn't stand the taste of the garlic in the fish's system and they'd drop off.
>>This is arguable.  Did you know that, because of the life cycle of the ich protozoan they would fall of anyway?  There are *only* two known, proven methods of curing ich (garlic is NOT one of them)--hyposalinity (<1.010) and copper.  I happen to disagree with the use of garlic as an ich curative, there is only evidence that shows it might stimulate feeding, however, all evidence to date in favor of garlic is anecdotal at best.  If I recollect correctly, there was a recent article in Advanced Aquarium (I believe you can find it at http://www.reefs.org ) regarding what garlic can and cannot do.  Do try to check it out.
>Well they did in fact drop off after two days.  The tang is now clear.  
>>For now.  You don't see any ich right now, this does not mean that the tang is clear, though.  It only means that the parasite has completed one stage of its life cycle and has moved on to another.  This would have happened with or without the use of the garlic.
>Now my problem now is... my two black clowns and my potter's angel have something like a body fungus or maybe velvet, I'm not sure.
>>Not surprising.  Expect all vertebrates to be stressed at this point, *especially* the Potter's angel.  They really don't perform well in captivity, and are best left to those with extensive experience.  This is outlined on the site as well as Bob's last book, "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist".
>It looks patchy, but is taking over there entire body, like a coating.  
>>This does sound a bit like velvet, though it could signal that they've now been infected with a particularly heavy ich infestation.  This is not good.  Have you searched the site for treatment and information?  If not, please let me link you--> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm  also, do search www.reefs.org/library (as well as the archives on site), and do a general Google search.
>I started a hospital tank today using water from my reef tank so I didn't shock them anymore and added copper safe to the tank.
>>Good, a bit late, but better than never.  Now, you MUST get all the fish in there as well, or you'll never get rid of the ich or velvet (should that prove to be the disease).
>Since I put them in...in about a hour's time the slime that's covering there body (whatever it is) is starting to hang off them (kinda stringy).  The fish are now darting around trying to scratch, where they weren't before.  Also the potter is breathing really heavy.  My question is... is this normal and should I use something in conjunction with the copper safe like Maracyn, just in case it is an actual bacterial infection.  
>>This sounds as though all the fish are stressed, and there may be several factors occurring.  Without having a box of the meds in front of me I can't tell you whether or not it would be safe to use the two in conjunction, though I believe you can.  My own antibiotic of choice is Spectrogram, then Melafix.  Since you're medicating with the copper anyway (you MUST have a test kit for copper as well) then I suggest either reading the literature that comes with the medication, and if it says nothing then contact the manufacturer.  Also, give all fish a freshwater dip IF (and only if) they are not severely stressed already.  I do suspect you have a raging infesting presenting in these fish, though, and they're very stressed.
>Can you use both Coppersafe and Maracyn at the same time?  The fish were eating normal, and the hospital tank is being aerated well.
>>It is VERY important that you not allow any buildup of ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates.  Therefore, have on hand enough mixed, fresh saltwater to change out the q/t three times over AT LEAST.  Be sure that the q/t is bare on the bottom, and when you change the water siphon off the entire bottom of the tank well, this will help remove dropped parasitic cysts.  More is definitely better.  Now, you have ALL the fish in quarantine, and you *must* allow the display tank to remain fallow for six weeks MINIMUM.  Being as how you have such a severe infection I'm going to push you strongly to go a full eight weeks fallow before introducing the fish back.
>Any help is greatly appreciated.  Gary B.
>>Let's get this part out of the way, and we'll move on from there.  You can continue to use the garlic if it seems to stimulate feeding, but also be sure to offer copious amounts of Nori and romaine, as well as the best quality frozen foods you can find.  Also, if the fish are spooky, give them good cover in the form of PVC elbows, and even covering up parts of the q/t tank.

Garlic Oil Treatment
Hi Bob,
Can you elaborate on your use of garlic oil to treat ich? I haven't been able to buy "Garlic Oil" in a pure form, and I can only find garlic infused oils. So how long do you medicate and how often? What else have you observed?
Thanks
>>
Argggh 'N Shnarrgghhh, No, this "treatment" is not "mine" and I don't endorse it. I have heard of people giving credence to adding garlic in foods as a purgative, treatment and nutritive supplement... but, once again, I do not endorse its use... I WOULD NOT place any type of oil in a marine system as a treatment. My rundown on diseases, treatments can be found in books, articles I've penned, and many of these efforts can be found archived on the wetwebmedia.com website.
Bob Fenner

DIY Garlic
Bob, on your old question and Answer sight on FFExpress (couldn't find it
> today). You mentioned some success with using garlic oil long term in food
> to help with ich. I've looked and can only find garlic flavored oils (lots
> of preservatives). Any suggestions on where to find it. My wife bought some
> garlic cloves in oil but it also contains phosphoric acid which I'm not sure
> I should use. Will you be back on FFExpress?? Thanks Lloyd
>>
Best to press your own... and am back/still on at FFExpress.com... we're gearing up for a great improvement... as you probably know better than I by now.
Be chatting,
Bob Fenner visiting in the Maldives.

Garlic
Bob,
Wanted to ask you what you thought about using garlic to treat parasites (specifically ich). I've reading on several bulletin boards that people have had success with it, especially with prolonged treatment. I've got a mild infestation in a 55 gallon reef system. Only 2 fish right now, Gold Striped Maroon Clown and a Lawnmower Blenny. The Maroon Clown is not apparently infected.....yet. The Blenny seeks regular checkups with the two cleaner shrimp I have and seems to be doing good but does scratch at the substrate.
Tanks! (gee, is that a pun or a typo.....?) :)
>>
<Heard it... but thanks anyway... Re garlic... don't know of "the causative mechanism" and have not seen conclusive, reliable results with its use... Visited with Mike Paletta (on a PA trip last month), a/the big proponent (along with Kelly Jedlicki) of garlic (Allium sativum) use... and asked him about the same question point blank... and am still not convinced... A comprehensive avoidance program is best, the after the fact use of biological cleaners and environmental manipulation (lowered spg, elevated temp.) and lastly copper-based medication and letting the ich-infested system go fallow as long as possible (month(s)) is my treatment philosophy.
Bob Fenner, who wishes all the world's ills could be treated with vegetable materials, but it just isn't so.

- Dipping & Garlic -
Hey guys, I have a few important questions regarding Amyloodinium and dipping.  First question is:  How long should I keep my saltwater angel in a Methylene blue/freshwater dip for? <Probably not much more than five minutes.> The angel has body and gill parasites and Ich. <Is it Ich or Amyloodinium? These are not the same thing.> I was going with the recommendation Mr. Fenner had in The Conscientious Marine Aquarist book about Meth. blue dip recipe.  But it says nothing about duration.
Second question is:  If I continue to feed all my fish in my main tank garlic continuously with every feeding, will that eventually rid me of Amyloodinium and keep the fish healthy? <The garlic "may" keep the fish healthy, but it will most certainly NOT rid your tank of Oodinium or Cryptocaryon (Ich). You need to take drastic action if the parasite you have is Oodinium as it will kill your fish in a matter of days if you do nothing other than use garlic. Dips and quarantine with Formalin are what are needed. Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm >
Thanks a lot,
Jason
<Cheers, J -- >