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FAQs on Basslets/Grammas Compatibility
Related Articles: Grammas,
Related FAQs: Grammas 1,
Grammas 2, Gramma Identification,
Gramma Behavior, Gramma Selection,
Gramma Systems, Gramma Feeding,
Gramma Health, Gramma Reproduction,
Grammas almost never bother invertebrates. Sessile or motile.
Spondylus varians Sowerby 1829, the
Variable Thorny Oyster. | .JPG)
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Re: Liopropoma carmabi purchase and potential tankmates
10/12/09
Hi Bob,
Boy, do I have a story for you...
<Oh?>
I told you in my earlier emails that my Royal Gramma passed away a few
weeks ago. Well, I want to elaborate on that further.
Several weeks ago, my oldest fish, a Royal Gramma was acting oddly. She
was swimming near the top of the tank, trying to find a spot to call her
own. She has been in the tank several years, with all of the existing
tank mates, so I was concerned by her change in behavior. She was
swimming a bit crooked, kind of on her side, and her tailfin was frayed.
She looked kind of "beat up" and not well. She also looked very bloated.
I have a professional maintenance man who takes care of my tank weekly,
along with me, as I adore the hobby. The morning he came, I had located
the gramma in a hole in the live rock. We looked at her with a
flashlight. He could not see her very well, but there were no
indications of anything parasitic on her. He recommended I observe her
over the next few days.
The next day she was gone. I looked everywhere for her for several days,
and I could not find her, even at night with a flashlight looking
everywhere I could. After several weeks, both my tank man and I agreed
she probably did not make it and was consumed (how morbid!) by the
cleaning crew and whoever else in the tank who would partake in this
act. Since all other fish were vibrant, healthy, eating, and acting
totally normal, and all parameters and anything else in the tank we
could think of were in check, we decided it
was an isolated incident.
I missed her and did extensive research on the Liopropoma Carmabi, which
I ordered and will be here tomorrow.
GUESS WHO SHOWED UP YESTERDAY MORNING?!!!
<... G. loreto?>
Still sickly and looking as if she had mere hours to live, my Royal
Gramma was trying to crawl/swim on the
sand. She was breathing heavily, and when she lay still hermit crabs
actually were trying to go onto her. She was fighting them. She was in a
spot in the open sand and I netted her right out of the tank and put her
in my
refugium. I did not have much hope for her, but I fed her some Thera -A
Spectrum pellets and saw her try to eat them. She was laying on her side
all day in the refugium and when I went to bed last night. I did not
expect her to be alive this morning. To the contrary, she is eating and
swimming around, albeit more horizontally on her side, and there looks
to be marked improvement in her and her behavior. She even appears less
bloated to me, although I can't be sure if this is accurate.
I plan on leaving her in my refugium and taking it day by day with her,
nursing her back to health if possible. But here I am, wildly excited
about the Liopropoma Carmabi arriving tomorrow! If the Gramma were to
make a full recovery, can these two exist in the same tank?
<In how large a system? If over 50 gallons likely so>
I have your book, The Conscientious Marine Aquarist (revised edition),
and it seems to clearly separate these two in terms of one being a
"Liopropoma" and the other being a "Grammidae," and putting them in the
same family falls prey to "the false-bass trap," as the grammas are not
true basses. So, does this mean
they can or cannot co-exist in the same tank?
<If not too crowded, yes>
My tank man said if the gramma were to make a full recovery, she could
live quite a happy life in my refugium, but I would prefer her to have a
reef tank to live in. Mine, or someone who could care for her properly.
Any ideas you may have on compatibility and what could be wrong with the
gramma would also be most welcome.
So appreciative of your advice,
Laura
<Welcome. BobF>
Compatibility (Help) 10/8/09
Hey all,
<Jonathan>
I am turning to you all for some advice. I have set up my 29 gallon nano
tank for about 6 months now, and finally added my final livestock (Tail
Spot Blenny) to my tank. I currently have a pair of false clowns (1
black/white and 1 orange) and one Royal Gramma. The 3 have been living
in peace together for about 3 months now.
Since its been so long, I forgot that the most peaceful fishes should
always be added to the tank first, and the Gramma seems to be bothering
the blenny. I actually saw the Gramma take a pretty good bite of the
blenny as he sticks his head out of his "hole". Unfortunately, he picked
his spot right in front of the gramma's "nest" and the blenny is
cornered in it seems. Its only been about more than a day but every time
the blenny tries to leave his "hole" the Gramma scares him back in. Will
this continue?
Should I be worried about the blenny? Also, the clowns are very curious,
but I don't think they would do harm the blenny? Any suggestions?
<Yes, in lieu of the tank being on the small side and easier to work
with, carefully rearrange the rockwork which will initially eliminate
territorial behavior. We are hoping that after this remodeling, their
new territories
will be much farther apart and hostilities will end.>
Your comments and advise are always greatly appreciated. Thanks in
advance.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Sincerely,
Jonathan Tan
Basslets: Behavior and compatibility 7/26/2009
Hey all,
<Hi Jonathan.>
Great website. I've learned a lot by browsing the information on the
site, great for newbies in the hobby!
<Happy to hear you find it helpful.>
I had a question regarding the Basslets, primarily the Black Cap and the
Royal Gramma. I am planning to add one or the other into my 24 gallon
nano which currently has one orange and one black and white false Perc.
<That will be a little crowded for a 24 gallon.>
I wanted to know more about the two different Basslets. I cannot seem to
find much information on the black cap, and wanted to know if they
behaved differently than the Royal.
<I have one of each, their behavior is very similar, but the Blackcap is
a bit more aggressive.>
I've read that the Royal will defend his/her territory vigorously and
open up his mouth quite large to intimidate trespassers, will the same
happen with the Black cap?
<Yes.>
I have yet to see an image of the black cap threatening another fish.
I've heard that Basslets have a liking for shrimp, will they go after my
2 cleaner shrimps?
<It is possible>
Will one be more aggressive than the other, or be more likely to eat
shrimp, harass the clowns?
<I would be more concerned with the clowns harassing the gramma, but the
Blackcap is more aggressive than the Royal.>
The videos of the black cap that I've seen, I notice that they dig
often.
<They do, mine has excavated an area under its favorite rock..
Will the royal gramma dig in the sand as well?
<They do not seem to dig, but rather hide themselves in the rock.>
Thanks for all your help.
<Read here: it also includes the response I sent the last time you
wrote:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/grammasysfaqs.htm >
Jonathan
<MikeV>
Royal Gramma, Stocking
7/25/09
Hey all,
<Hi>
Truly love the website. Thanks for all your help on my previous
question.
I recently got one orange false perc and one black and white false perc
based on your information and they are getting along great. A very
interesting pair!
<I bet.>
Now to my next question, the 2 clowns are the only fish I have in my 24
gallon nano and I was thinking of either adding a Royal Gramma or a
Purple Firefish. I am leaning heavily towards the gramma, but have heard
that they eat shrimp. I currently have 2 cleaner skunk shrimp and they
are my 3 yr old son's favorite. Will the Royal go after the cleaner
shrimp?
<Most likely these shrimp will be too big to be meal, but there is no
guarantee.>
I was also looking into some Sexy shrimp in the future, will they become
an expensive meal for the gramma as well?
<These are typically much smaller than the cleaner and will fit quite
nicely into the grammas surprisingly large mouth.>
Regarding the purple firefish, since I already have 2 clowns, will they
scare the firefish into hiding?
<Depends on how territorial they have become, they could easily claim
the entire tank themselves, or it could work out ok. Tough to predict.>
Thanks for your help again!
Jonathan
<Welcome>
<Chris>
Blackcap Basslet vs. Yellowhead Jaw fish [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
6/23/09
<More public thievery? Defence.gov of what?>
Hi,
I currently have a 280lt (Im Australian) Reef kicking along
successfully, but which to own a few Caribbean species, so Im currently
setting up a Caribbean corner tank appx 120lt or 31Us Gal. I was just
wondering if it was possible to put in a pair of Yellowhead Jaw fish and
a pair of Blackcap Basslet
<Need more room than this>
(owned previously) in this tank, apart from snails and maybe a blood
shrimp, this will be the only livestock.
Filtration if sufficient for all of this. Being a corner tank I can set
up artificial holes at either end (approx 32 inch apart) for the jaw
fish even if they decide not to pair and burrow separately, my biggest
concern is will these two species be compatible. Noting they are both
from the same region.
<Found in different depths, habitats... in the same geographies. They
are compatible... given sufficient room/space>
Do you have any definitive information on sexing of blackcap Basslets
<Nope>
and if so was wondering if you could point me in the right direction. I
have found some information but it is limited.
<Just the usual Net, books re fishes of the region... Bob Fenner>
Thank you very much for you time,
Jimmy
Abused Royal Gramma 5/28/2009
Hello WWM Crew,
<Hello Scott.>
First off thank you all for your volunteered time to help all the
aquarists out there.
<I think we all enjoy helping other aquarists.>
I currently have a 50 gallon FOWLR with 50 lb of live rock and a1 inch
sand bed. Water chemistry is ammonia, nitrite at zero, nitrate at 30ppm,
pH at 8.4 and SG at 1.025. Water changes are done biweekly at 20%
increments. The tank itself is 2 years old and filtration is an AquaC
Remora and two Maxijet 1200 powerheads for circulation. Tank inhabitants
are an ORA ocellaris clown (22 months in tank), Royal Gramma (18 months
in tank), Flameback (C. acanthops) angel (9 months in tank), and
Fourline (P. tetrataenia) wrasse (1.5 months in tank). I feed twice a day
with new line spectrum pellets and Spirulina in the morning and a
varying mix of frozen formula 1, 2, prime reef, and PE mysis in the
evening. Weekly I throw in a sheet of Nori for the fish to munch on. I
have 4 red legged hermit crabs and 5 turbo snails as a 'cleanup' crew.
<Scott, excellent summarization of your tank, this is how every query
should begin.>
Now for my problem, a week ago I left for a long three day weekend and
the fish went without food for 2.5 days. When I got home I found my
normally robust gramma looking sickly. Reading through WWM healthy fish
should be able to go one week without food and I've gone five days in
the past with no problems.
<And you did your research.>
The gramma's stomach appears sunken with some tail missing. It looks
like there are scales peeling off the head of the fish. And under
pectoral fin on both sides are dark blotches which look like the photos
posted on WWM of grammas jumping out of the tank. But due to the
symmetry of this condition on both sides and the overall state of the
fish I thought it was most likely due to something else. Behavior wise
it still acts like a gramma, darts in and out of the rock, eats, and
stalls at random angles.
<A great description.>
So it comes down to environment, nutrition, and disease. Aggression wise
the gramma is at the bottom in this tank. I've always been apprehensive
about adding the Fourline wrasse as they are similar shape and the
horror stories posted on WWM. The totem pole appears to go angel, wrasse
and clown, then gramma.
<This pecking order is what would be expected with these fish.>
After reading for hours on end the fish should not be psychologically
cramped for space and until now have enjoyed a successful tank. But I
know things change as fish grow. I thought nutrition wise I was doing
alright but would love to be corrected. I don't normally do vitamin
soaks but can gladly start. I can't find any articles that match my
gramma's condition but have attached photos (really hard to get a good
shot of this fish) that can hopefully help. I have a 10 gallon QT ready
to go but don't want to stress myself or the gramma trying to catch them
from the main tank if unnecessary. Any thoughts? Thanks.
<Alright, based on the time the Royal Gramma has spent in the tank, the
pecking order in the tank and the details you left me. My first though
is
that while a healthy fish should be able to go without food for a week,
it doesn't mean they want too. My guess is that without daily feedings
which
likely curb aggression in your tank, that aggression levels increased in
any one or all of your other fish, and the poor Royal Gramma got beat up
while you were gone. Keep a close eye on him for worsening of his
condition. I imagine that with normal daily feedings with nutritious
food he is going to recover just fine, so I would not contribute to it's
stress by trying to catch it. If you find the condition is
worsening then I might try to remove him to a quarantine tank, and
investigate other possibilities.>
Scott
<Good Luck. And keep me updated.
Josh Solomon>
Re: QT Female Filamented Flasher Wrasses? Now Royal Gramma
comp. - 04/06/09
Thanks for the reply.
<<Quite welcome>>
The male was in QT for 4 weeks (not your typical QT... It was my 2 year
old 20g that needed to be broken down with tons of live mysids) I didn't
have to feed him for three days.
<<Ah…okay>>
Anyway, he was put in his new home Friday. My new issue is my Royal
Gramma.
<<Oh?>>
I currently have the tank now divided in half via eggcrate & 1/4"
casting net. Will the gramma accept his new tankmates over time?
<<Mmm, as the “established” fish here…you likely will have to remove it
until the Flasher Wrasses have settled in and acclimated to the new
system>>
If so, about how long would the divider need to be kept in place?
<<It is best to remove the Basslet altogether for a time to disorient
it/provide the upper hand to the Wrasses upon its return>>
He seems to be showing less aggression today. Only if absolutely
necessary I can move him to my frag tank.
<<It is up to you… You can try the divider…but I would be more inclined
to move the fish for a while, for the benefit of the Flashers>>
I have a catch net resting on the Monti cap for him to get used to
should I need to try and catch him.
<<Excellent>>
The females are supposed to be shipped today so they'll be here
tomorrow.
<<Though less of a risk than the Basslet, do keep an eye out for
excessive aggression towards the females from the male (being first in
the tank)>>
Oh and rearranging the tank won't work. His fave spot is the 10x10 Monti
cap attached to a large rock - not an easy piece to rearrange.
<<Agreed…temporary relocation of the Royal Gramma is best here I think>>
Thanks again!!!
<<Good luck with your Flasher Wrasses…wonderful little fish! EricR>>
Filamented Flasher Wrasses follow-up – 04/12/09
I had ordered three female flasher wrasses to join my male and the
shippers held them an extra week until they felt they were ready for
shipping. In the meantime I moved the royal gramma the day before their
arrival to another one of my tanks and he's doing well. Absolutely the
best decision as the gramma owned my large Monti cap, slept there and
swam in and out of all the holes... the wrasses have now taken it over.
Before moving the gramma the male wrasse was out and about occasionally
with a divider separating him and the gramma but still stayed hidden 90%
of the time.
<Submissive>
The females arrived early Friday morning and after a lengthy acclimation
(4 hours) were put directly into the tank. The only other fish in there
now was the male wrasse. The three females dove right into the huge
Monti cap and hid. Even with the females hiding, within 5 minutes the
male was out and hovering over the Monti cap darting in and out. Within
20 minutes the male and dominant female were hovering together over the
Monti cap.
<Ahh!>
I saw him more yesterday after the females were in the tank than I have
the whole six weeks I've had him. What a huge difference in his
behavior... their interaction as a group is fascinating. I have a
Vortech that they love to face into the outflow above the Monti.
<Very nice>
After another couple hours I decided to try feeding and had frozen mysis
and Rod's food soaking in Selcon. As soon as the food hit the water the
male and two of the three females were scooping it up and wanting more.
I fed them 3 more times throughout the day. The remaining female who
looked more stressed than the other two during acclimation remained
hidden. I kept the lights on actinics only all day.
<Good>
I made a tank cover using 1/4" monofilament casting net because during
the male's stay in a holding tank the male was always jumping (just
because he could) and kept hitting the acrylic cover on that tank. 1/4"
black nylon casting net covers the Vortech.
For the slower to recover female Is there anything else I can do to help
her through this?
<Mmm, possibly add/try some live foods, otherwise, nothing else I would
do>
I'm running eight T5 HOs in the tank, no Halide, and was thinking of
keeping the lighting subdued again today running only half of the
lights.
I hope some of this is helpful to others thinking about getting flasher
wrasses.
Thank you,
Debra
<And you. Bob Fenner>
Foxface Damage to Gramma? – 01/23/09
Hi guys!
<<Hey Jo!>>
I know you are really busy and I only email you if I can't find anything
on the web but this time I really could do with some advice.
<<I’m
happy to try to help>>
It's an established reef tank, 2 years old,
with most of the rock, corals and fish moved from our first tank so some
fish have been with us for over 5 years.
<<Neat>>
We've had our
beautiful royal gramma for about a year now.
<<A splendid little
fish…and great aquarium specimens>>
He's always been a bit secretive
and likes to hide and come out when the MH goes off and just the
actinics are on but always comes out for food.
<<Typical>>
Got a
Foxface 2-3 weeks ago and he settled in very well but decided to sleep
near the Gramma's cave. We've seen the gramma half come out of his hole,
opening its mouth at the Foxface but have never seen them fight.
<<Doesn’t like the Foxface so close, eh?>>
We also added a small
boxing shrimp who also decided to live in the same place - it's
underneath a large plating Montipora.
<<A popular block in the
neighborhood>>
Last week I noticed my gramma wasn't coming out to
feed. In fact he wasn't coming out at all but hiding in his cave or in
an empty barnacle. Today he looks almost dead - very still in the
barnacle and kind of gasping/breathing fast.
<<Mmm…>>
There is no
white spot/velvet on him but there is a single red/purple spot on his
yellow tail? Could he have been stung by the Foxface
<<Maybe>>
and
if so, is he likely to survive?
<<From what you describe it doesn’t
sound promising…whatever the cause>>
He looked as he was dying so we
took him out in the barnacle full of water,
<<As in simply lifted the
barnacle and the Gramma didn’t move/stayed within? A very bad sign>>
placed in container of tank water and had a look but then put him back
in the sump. I don't want to risk the rest of the fish catching whatever
he's got couldn't put him to sleep so please help!
<<First off, if
indeed this fish has an illness/infection, placing it in your sump does
not isolate it from the rest of the system…but I think this is likely a
moot point. I have no way of knowing what ails this fish…it could
anything from a venomous sting as you inquired, or internal parasites
which you can do nothing about now, or even just old age. But if you
can’t bring yourself to euthanize it, leaving it in your sump until it
either recovers or expires should be fine>>
Many many thanks for your
time and hope to hear from you soon.
Jo
<<Nothing really for you
to do at this point Jo but watch and wait I’m afraid…I’ll keep my
fingers crossed that this fish recovers. Regards, EricR>>
Re: Foxface Damage to Gramma? – 01/24/09
Hi EricR,
<<Hello Jo>>
Many thanks for your quick reply!
<<Sorry it wasn’t
better news>>
Yes, I didn't think that placing him in the sump it
would prevent the other fish catching it but wanted to keep him away
from crabs, etc as seeing livestock being picked on while still alive
and suffering breaks my heart...
<<Ah, okay>>
Sadly, he was dead
this morning.
<<Sorry to hear…>>
Still not sure what it was,
possibly a sting from the Foxface as the red dot was still on his body
when we took him out, apart from that, nothing unusual, maybe a bit
swollen?
<<Can only speculate…but if so, it is a probability the
Gramma accidentally impaled itself rather than it being an “overt”
action on the part of the Foxface…and shouldn’t keep you from obtaining
another of these wonderful little fish>>
Was going to frag that Monti
but as you said, it has proven to be very popular place in the tank so I
guess I'll leave it alone for now... Thanks again for your time and
help!
Jo
<<Cheers mate. EricR>>
Flame Hawk and Royal Gramma Problems, comp. 11/6/07
Hi. I have had several problems in my 34 gallon saltwater tank. I
had a royal Gramma, flame hawk, and six line wrasse in my tank for
about six months without any problems.
<These fishes need more
room than this>
I then made the big mistake of adding a yellow
tail damsel.
<Yikes!>
At first everything was fine, but
eventually, the damsel started to harass the Gramma to the point
that the Gramma went into hiding and could not come out without
being chased by the damsel. I then removed the damsel.
<Good>
Meanwhile, since the Gramma was in hiding from the damsel for an
extended period , the hawk apparently got the idea that he now owns
the entire tank.
<He does>
Since the removal of the damsel,
whenever the Gramma tries to come out of hiding the Gramma gets
chased by the hawk and forced back into hiding. Now the Gramma only
comes out to eat.
I know that the hawk and Gramma can get along
fine since they did so for over six months until I made the mistake
of introducing the damsel. Before the damsel the hawk and Gramma
both freely moved about the tank without bothering each other. I
have been living with the Gramma in hiding from the hawk now for
about 2 weeks without abatement.
<Well stated>
I was thinking
of catching the hawk and putting him in an isolation breeder box in
the tank so as to allow the Gramma to come out of hiding and
re-establish its territory. This way the hawk will be able to
observe the Gramma move about the tank and hopefully get used to the
Gramma again. Will this help?
<Yes... a good, possible plan>
Alternatively, I could just continue to wait things out and hope
that this abates. All fish are eating well and look healthy so at
least I do not have to worry about the harassment leading to
starvation. But having my Gramma live in a cave 24/7 and only come
out to eat b/c of the hawk chasing is obviously not an acceptable
status quo. Any suggestions on how to proceed would be greatly
appreciated.
<Once these sorts of dynamics establish themselves,
particularly in small/er volumes, they are very hard to unmake...
but worth trying. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re: Follow Up On Flame Hawk and Royal Gramma Problems 11/08/07
Thank you so much for the reply. Well, I have successfully caught
the hawk with a DIY 2 liter plastic coke bottle trap and confined
the hawk to a breeders box.
<Congrats!>
I placed the breeders
box on the opposite side of the display tank facing the cave home of
the royal Gramma so that both fish can easily see each other.
Immediately upon doing so, the Gramma came out and is starting to
engage in its normal behavior of touring the tank.
<Ah, good>
My questions are as follow. How long should I leave the hawk
confined in the breeders box?
<A good week or two>
Do I stand
a better chance of success if I completely remove the hawk to a
quarantine tank for a 1 week or so, or am I better off keeping the
hawk confined in the display tank in the breeders box so as to allow
the fish to get used to each other? Thank you for your assistance.
<Best to leave, keep it where it is... for all's sake. Bob Fenner> |
Jawfish killing help 11/6/07
Hi I have a question about my
Jawfish to see if you might could help me. My current tank inhabitants
are: a small maroon clownfish, yellow goby, cardinal Banggai, royal
Gramma and pearly Jawfish,
<Mmm, these last two...>
and a yellow
tang in my 75 gal tank which have all gotten along fine. I also have two
cleaner shrimp and a peppermint shrimp. A few weeks ago my dad noticed
my Jawfish swimming upside down and very funny in the current which he
never did. My dad took him out of the tank and the Jawfish was very easy
to catch and put him in our quarantine tank. The Jawfish acted just fine
in the quarantine tank and ate like normal. Yesterday we decided to put
my Jawfish back into the tank and acclimated him. He was fine yesterday,
although he was very hard to catch. My dad left the light on acclimating
him this time because in one of our fish books it said to leave the
light on for the Jawfish for him to be able to find a home. We normally
do not do this but we did this time. This morning I found my cleaner
shrimp eating on part of my Jawfish which was not in one piece. My
question is do you have any idea what could have killed him?
<A best
guess... the Gramma loreto... these two hail from overlapping habitats,
but don't generally get along. Bob Fenner> Yellow Tailed
Damsel Harassing Royal Gramma 4/23/07
Hi Bob, I love your
website. <Hello, Chris here today.> It has been extremely
useful. Thank you. <Welcome from all of us.> I am a long time reader
with a first time question. I have read the FAQ's regarding my problem
but I still felt compelled to ask. I have a 40 gallon breeder reef
tank. It has housed a tomato clown and yellow tailed damsel together
for 1 year or so. I added a Royal Gramma a few days ago and he was
immediately harassed by the damsel. The Gramma has been hiding behind a
powerhead nursing a lightly torn up tail fin. He eats the frozen mysis
shrimp when they pass within a few inches of his powerhead at feeding
time, but I have not seen him venture out further than this. Will he
and the damsel ever get along? <Maybe, maybe not.> A gentleman asked the
same question in the FAQ's, only he had a 75 gallon tank. You told him
that everything ought to settle down, and that he could "Leave all in"
with a tank of that size. So now I am wondering, what about a 40 gallon
tank? Otherwise is there anything I could do to ameliorate the
situation? Thank you so much, Tom
<I would give it a couple weeks
to a month and see if they can adjust to each other. This is dependent
on the Gramma continuing to eat of course. If this stops he will have
to be removed. Otherwise you could remove the damsel for a couple of
weeks and allow the Gramma to establish himself. This helps sometimes
in situations like this. If none of these work then the two fish will
just need to be permanently separated.>
<Chris>
Strawberry Gramma & Clarks Clown 1/20/07
Hi there,
<Hey Jo, JustinN with you today.>
I today purchased a beautiful
strawberry Gramma, about 2-3 inches long, gorgeous colour.
However
after being in the tank for all of an hour, my Clarks clown fish grabbed
it by the head, dragged it to its host anemone, and shoved it into its
mouth, Then proceeded to encourage the anemone to close up, and then
guarded the area until the anemone re opened. Fish gone!
<Wow! What
a show! Don't get me wrong, I'm very sorry for your loss, but this must
have been QUITE the event to see!>
Is this considered normal
behaviour of this type of clown fish??
<Oh, yes>
He guards his
home very strongly from all the other fish, and even attacked me while I
was cleaning the tank and got too close, but I didn't expect it to feed
its host with my new addition. Bits of food yes, but a fish that size?
<Absolutely, especially if the clown sees it as a threat.>
Am I to
expect this of all brightly coloured fish I introduce?
<Is certainly
a possibility. You don't mention the size of your aquarium -- if this is
under 75 gallons, there may simply not be enough available territory for
the clown to allow coexistence!>
Could this be where my firefish
disappeared to?
<A very good possibility.>
Regards
Jo
<Again, Jo, I don't mean to sound like I'm making light of your
situation, but you've witnessed something that many will never get the
opportunity to! Do plan on any future tankmates according to this
newfound information, and do remember to properly quarantine any new
arrivals! -JustinN>
Re: Strawberry Gramma & Clarks Clown
1/21/07
Hi
<Hey again, Jo!>
The tank size is approx 120
gallons so there should be enough space.
<I would tend
to agree here... perhaps if/when you make another new addition,
rearranging the tank aquascaping may break down this defense shield, and
allow for another addition.>
Funnily enough my husband said the same
as you, what a sight to see. I wasn't as impressed as the two of you
obviously are !
<Like I stated, Jo, it's a very unfortunate
situation, and I am very sorry for the loss, but this is something that
many people stipulate happens in their care, but few get to witness..
Nature/Survival of the Fittest at play, my friend.>
Anyway I won't
be repeating the experience. Expensive lunch, and expensive lesson
learned.
<Yes, is certainly a regrettable experience, but you live
and learn.>
Thanks for your reply
Jo
<No problems, Jo.
Good luck to you! -JustinN> New Nano
Saltwater tank 5/12/06
Hi Bob.
<Hi, Chris with you tonight>
I am really new to the salt world. I have kept freshwater fish for three
years, and recently bought a 12 gallon AquaPod.
<Tiny for a
saltwater tank, especially for your first.>
I wanted to do a reef,
so my local store has been helping me get that set up. We let the little
tank cycle for about a week with a thin layer of live sand (less than an
inch thick) about 7 to 10 pounds of live rock. All water tests look
great, with the exception of the nitrites are at .5.
<Not great,
nitrites need to be 0 before adding livestock.>
Started off adding a
turbo snail, and three blue legged hermits. Kept a close eye on all of
them, and they are doing great. Dropped in some red algae, and one
feather duster about three days later. All is well.
<Too much too
soon>
So I moved on to wanting to add a fish. We purchased a Royal
Gramma, and it is a riot to watch. He eats well, and is all over the
tank. <Nice fish> My son wanted "Nemo" from the beginning, and I liked
the Clowns as well, so I asked, and our LFS said they preferred I kept
only one fish in the 12 gallon tank, but we could "probably get away
with a small clown." So we bought a small False Perc. that they had.
Added him yesterday, and he just sticks to the left side of the tank,
and swims up and down with his reflection. Is this always going to be
the case with him? Can a single clown be kept, or do they need to be in
pairs to be happy? I would hate to have to get rid of my royal.
He
also would not even look at the shrimp I fed yesterday.
Thanks for
any advice you can give me.
Gram M.
<2 fish for a tank that size
is a lot. Plus the Gramma can be a terror, in my 46G my Gramma owns
most of the tank, and is quite aggressive in keeping the clowns out of
his territory. I'm afraid in a 12G there just isn't enough room for
both of them. Really one fish is plenty for that tank. Plus poor water
quality with .5 nitrite she is getting a double whammy.>
<Chris>
Stocking order 5/8/06
Hello once again! <Hi> I have a saltwater
aquarium that I'm finally ready to stock. <Now the fun begins> I'm
looking forward to stocking it with a royal Gramma, 2 ocellaris clowns
(tank-bred), and 1 flame angelfish (tank-bred). I'm getting all the fish
from liveaquaria.com. The clowns and the angel will be 1 inch or under
in size. I don't know about the size of the royal Gramma yet. All will
be "QTed" <excellent> before adding into main aquarium. In what order
should I add them in.
Sincerely,
Aqua Man
P.S. Would
the royal Gramma disturb or kill any inverts in the aquarium?
<I
would add the two clowns first, then the Gramma, and finally the
angel. I have only heard of a Gramma bothering a invertebrate once,
unfortunately it was mine. It didn't care for an emerald crab I had and
enjoyed grabbing it by the claws and flinging it into the rocks. Never
heard of anything like that before or since, but was quite a sight. 99%
chance yours will be fine with anything you add, although they can be
somewhat aggressive towards other fish.>
<Chris> Royal
Gramma Help... actually, an example of punctuated knowledge, learning in
our species... A useful paradigm for military conflicts, government
manipulation of the masses 3/16/06
Hi, I started a
fish only saltwater aquarium about 7 weeks ago. I cycled the tank with
damsels and removed them as I was told by my fish consultant when I was
ready to get other fish.
<Mmm, see WWM re this practice... the
damsels may have left you a nasty (disease) surprise...>
I bought 2
percula clowns and 1 royal Gramma. In about 2 days, one clown died and
from the way I described it, my fish
consultant believes it was
clownfish disease.
<There's more than one... Brooklynellosis? Should
not have occurred if these were tank bred...>
About a week later, I
lost the other one. I am waiting about 2 weeks before I buy anymore
clowns.
<... in the meanwhile, please read on WWM re these animals
needs>
I have now had the royal Gramma for about 3 weeks and over
that time I have added a
Heniochus butterfly, a coral beauty angel,
and a strawberry Pseudochromis.
<... how large is this system? How
filtered?>
The Pseudochromis charged at the royal Gramma once or
twice when I first added him to the display tank, and they have seemed
fine ever since.
<Will be unless this system is "at least four feet
long">
I see no tension between any of the fish right now. They are
all eating fine and look healthy, except the royal Gramma. A couple days
ago, I noticed his top fin was a little rigid and had a tiny tear in it.
I also saw that his left fin looks like the cartilage has been torn.
<Likely from tussling with the Dottyback>
He can still swim fine,
but I am concerned. I also saw that one of his bottom fins looks like
half of it was sort of snapped off. I also see 2 whitish lines back
above his eyes, but I don't know if they were there before. Could these
characteristics be from the Pseudochromis or could it be an infection of
some kind?
<Both, from one, then the other... will likely die if not
removed, treated elsewhere>
I am very concerned and if you have any
advice, please let me know. Thanks!
<... as time goes by you'll
understand how little useful information you have provided here. Please,
do yourself and your livestock the favor of educating yourself. Don't
rely on a consultant, me... read. Bob Fenner> Damsel and Royal
Gramma Fighting 2/26/06
Hi,
<And you>
I'd
like to compliment you on a great website: Long time reader, first
question.
Today I added a Royal Gramma to my 75 gal FO tank (after a
5 week quarantine). I rearranged the decor, thinking the Gramma would
be picked on, as I read they are a peaceful fish (boy was I wrong, the
Gramma is one feisty little fish!)
<Ah, yes>
After scrapping a
little with most of my other fish, all fighting has subsided; except
with my Yellow Tail Blue Damsel (Chrysiptera parasema). Whenever they
come into close proximity of each other they start fighting. They are
pretty evenly matched, and both are showing a little "wear" and stress
from the fighting. I was wondering if maybe they look a little to
similar to each other, with yellow tails, and the fighting is going to
continue.
<Mmm, likely not...>
Should I let it go for another
day and see what happens, or should I remove one of them immediately.
<In this sized system, all should settle down/in>
When I searched, I
found plenty of information on fighting, but not between these two types
of fish, and couldn't ascertain the chances of these two settling down
and cohabitating relatively peacefully.
<Odds are pretty
good... more than 90%>
I, of course, would really like to keep them
both. The Damsel was my first fish, and has never fought with any of my
other fish when they were added, so this kind of surprised me.
Thanks,
Greg
<I'd leave all in. Bob Fenner>
Compatibility/Marine 2/26/06
Hi Crew, <Hi Sam.>
There seem to be many questions about compatibility and most of us,
myself included, ignore your advice. You can see it in the question
where they
say 'and they all get along fine'. I have a 10 gallon
with a firefish, neon goby and clown goby and wanted to add a royal
Gramma. I was told it
would be overcrowding and the Gramma may be to
aggressive in such a small tank. But I wanted the color so I bought a
baby Gramma and all was fine
for 9 months with the Gramma and
firefish staying near each other and chasing after the same food in the
water column. Sometimes the Gramma lost
his cool when the firefish
beat him to some food and he opened his mouth wide at the firefish. The
firefish would either turn his tail towards the
Gramma or would
scoot away. I was sure I had a compatible group. Then all of a sudden
the firefish did not show up for feeding. After a few days I
found
him hiding and he was pretty shredded up. So to all who ask your advice
I say- listen to the experts-unless you are willing to sacrifice a
pretty animal just so you can have it your way for a while.
<Well
said. James (Salty Dog)> Damsel vs. Gramma Deathmatch
11/7/05
Thanks Sabrina!
<Sure thing, Jon.>
Well here is my
update.
<Alrighty!>
I have removed the Pink Damsel because along
with the addition of the Gramma, we had major fighting and tail fin
tearing. Now whenever I have to do this with a fish it upsets me, but I
have the damsel in a specimen container with aeration. Is there anyway
that this fish could calm down, and be returned to the display tank?
<Uhh, I wouldn't hedge any bets on it. You can try with a significant
change in decor, but I really doubt this fish will reform.>
It had
lived with other fish before but when many of my fishes died because of
the hurricane, I guess the fish took it all to himself. I hate to give
him up, it is a nice fish, but I can't handle the aggression.
<It is,
of course, your call. Be very, very cautious if you choose to try adding
him back.>
Thanks for your help! -Jon
<You bet. Wishing you well,
-Sabrina> Gramma Compatibility
Can a Royal Gramma and a
Black Cap Basslet coexist if added at they same time? Which one do you
prefer for a reef tank? I think the Black Cap is absolutely gorgeous.
Thanks,
Michelle
>>>Hello!
Yes, then can coexist, but it's more
complicated than just a simple YES answer. You just never know with
these fish. My advice is try it in at least a 55 gallon aquarium, and as
you said, add them simultaneously. Alternatively, if you like the Black
Cap that much, just go with one of those. :)
Good luck!
Jim<<<
Injured Gramma and Damsel Aggression (4/17/2005)
Hello all at
WWM,
<HI. Steve Allen with you this evening.>
First I, like
everyone else, have to say how great your site it. It is a great
resource for everyone, but especially for beginners like me.
<Glad
to here it helps.>
I have a 55 gal. with a pair of yellow tail
damsels, a chocolate chip star, and a Coris wrasse. I bought a Royal
Gramma, put him in QT for a month,
<smart>
then added him to the
main tank and rearranged the decor. The damsels instantly attacked him.
The tank is covered except at one spot around the heater and filter, so
I placed the plastic filter top over the opening. The Gramma got
spooked, crashed through it, and landed on the floor about 4 feet away.
<Sorry to hear.>
I have put him back in QT and he's not looking
good.
<Give it time. Grammas do tend to be resilient. If you got him
back in water quickly, I'd be optimistic.>
Is there anything I can
do to help him pull through?
<Excellent water conditions, minimize
stress, feed properly.>
If he lives, will the damsels get used to
him?
<Unlikely>
I know that damsels are aggressive and
territorial, but I have also read that the yellow tails were somewhat
more laid back.
<I'd use the term "a little less aggressive" rather
"laid back.">
They have always been pretty laid back, until about
two days ago, when they started chasing and nipping at each other.
<They usually do this eventually.>
Also, will the Gramma be
compatible with the wrasse (He was buried the whole time)?
<Probably
OK>
I do really like the damsels since they are the first fish I
bought. But I will get rid of them if necessary, but I do not want to
get rid of the wrasse. I've read through many of the FAQ's and know that
I should probably get rid of the damsels, but I am very overprotective
of my fish and want to know your advice on my situation.
<Sounds
like you already know what's best. I would not advise you to keep them.
You could consider trying to keep only one. There is a possibility this
could work. If your catching one, you might as well catch both. If the
Gramma makes it, let it settle in for a few weeks before adding back one
of the Damsels if you really must have one. But I'd suggest you consider
less aggressive species.>
I thank you for your time as well as both
your past and future help. ~Jeff
<You're welcome. I certainly hope
it remains useful.> Flashing royal Gramma
Evening to all. I
have an 80 gal marine tank with deep sand bed and live rock as well as a
wet dry. Current residents are ocellaris clown and royal Gramma (almost
a year), Foxface (coupla three months) two emerald crabs, some snails
and a skunk cleaner shrimp that recently shed its shell. The Gramma has
developed a fear of the Foxface which pays no attention to the Gramma.
The Gramma is definitely intimidated at feeding although he does get
enough food.
<Likely fine>
Lately the Gramma has been flashing on
the rocks. As far as I can tell there are no visible indications of a
problem with the Gramma other than the flashing and this is not
constant.
<Also probably not problematical... all fishes flash
somewhat>
Five gallon water change weekly, salinity temp. ph and
other parameters check out fine. I was wondering if you folks might have
any thoughts on the Gramma's behavior? Appreciate any insights you may
have. Thanks a bunch!!
<I doubt you have an actual problem... given
the size of your system, the presence of a cleaner shrimp... I'd just
keep your eye on all. Bob Fenner> Royal Gramma question 9/8/05
Bob (or whomever I am lucky enough to speak to...) I have a very
mature 230 reef with lots of rock. I have had little success with
Bartlett Anthias and am considering 5-7 royal grammas as a "poor
man's Bartlett." I have heard conflicting reports about introducing
them at the same time. Any thoughts? Any suggestions for a purple
schooling fish? Thanks for your help.<Richard Wulwick, Esq.
<Richard, did you read info on the Bartlett Anthias on the WWM. May be
something you are doing wrong for their adaptability. Grammas aren't
really a schooling fish in my opinion. Also search the WWM on these
guys for more info. James (Salty Dog)>
Royal Gramma
aggression against Pacific Blue Tang 8/11/05
Good morning WWM
Crew!
<Hi there, Leslie here for the crew this evening>
A bit of
background: I have the royal Gramma who wasn't doing so well in the QT.
You suggested adding an air stone and he perked up over night!
<Glad to hear that worked for you and that the fish is doing well.>
A week later I added him to the main tank. I also had a 2 inch Pacific
Blue Tang in a QT (different tank) which I added to the display tank
last night. The Royal Gramma immediately started posturing at the poor
fellow. I let him posture thinking he'd settle down, but after ten
minutes of that I actually saw him take a nip at his flank. <Ak, bummer>
I turned the lights off and everyone went to their respective "corners"
and the tang found a cave in which to settle down for the night. I
realized this morning (albeit a bit belatedly) that I hadn't rearranged
the rocks to confuse everyone. <Woops, its never to late!>
Display
Tank parameters:
90 gal MegaFlow All-Glass aquarium (48"L x 18"W x
24"H)
single strip 40 watt light so far (upgrading fixture in a few
months for corals)
23 gal sump w/Mag-7 for return
Aqua-C Urchin
Protein Skimmer
closed loop manifold with Mag24
2 - 600gph
powerheads in opposite corners
120 lbs live rock
120 lbs live
sand (4" DSB)
Temperature: 80 degrees Fahrenheit
pH: 8.1
salinity: 1.023
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10 - 20
(hard to tell with the strips)
2 - A. percula clowns (mated pair, 1
is 1 1/4", 1 is 2")
1 - Brown Striped goby (3 1/2")
1 -
Lawnmower Blenny (3")
1 - Royal Gramma (2 inch)
1 - Pacific Blue
Tang (2")
The tang is the last fish I am planning to add. My
question: is it too late to rearrange the rockwork to help the Tang
settle in better without the Gramma's aggression issues?
<Nope, not at all.>
Should I simply allow them to figure it out for
themselves (not sure I like that idea).
<I am not fond
of that idea either.>
I'm tempted to remove the Gramma (though I'm
not looking forward to the chase) and put him in solitary confinement in
QT for a week to let the tang settle in better before adding him back.
<This is actually a pretty good idea. However you are right the chase
will not be fun and can be stressful on the inhabitants.
The times I
have had to remove fast moving trouble makers, I opted for removing all
the rock. Although a big and messy a project, I find it less stressful
on the fish. You may want to consider this as long as you are planning
to rearrange the rock.>
Your thoughts or suggestions would be most
helpful. Thank you.
<Your most welcome, Leslie> Royal Gramma
aggression against Pacific Blue Tang (Follow up) 8/15/05
Thanks,
Leslie.
<Hi Bekha, Your very welcome!!!>
By the time
I got home last night, my husband had
already rearranged the rocks
<My kinda guy ☺!> and everyone was behaving themselves. <That’s great
news!>
He said that as soon as the rocks were rearranged, they
settled down to ignoring each other. This morning, it was the same - no
flank nipping, no aggression, nothing. Everyone ignored everyone else.
<That’s wonderful. I am glad it worked for you. I am sure the fish,
especially the Tang, are happier.>
It looks like the rearranging of
the rock did it's job, but we're keeping an eye on them just the same.
<Always a good plan.>
I have to admit, I really wasn't looking
forward to rearranging the rocks and removing them to get a fish out of
there!
<I certainly do not blame you. It is a messy job! If you want
to re do the aquascaping that’s one thing but to have to, to remove
a misbehaving fish is another story. If we see any more aggression,
we'll snag the aggressor and put into QT for a week.
<Excellent
plan.>
But from the looks of things this morning, all looked well.
<What a relief eh?>
I'm attaching a pic of the tank now (I actually
like the way he
rearranged the rocks!) Bekah Rogers
<Wow not
only is your husband thoughtful, he’s talented as well. Best of luck
with your tank, Leslie> Wrasse And Gramma Compatibility -
08/04/2005
Would a sixline wrasse and a royal Gramma likely be
compatible in a 90 gallon tank?
<Yes, highly likely. I
have a pal with a fourline and a royal Gramma in a 55g, and over the
past year that he's had them, there have been no compatibility issues
whatsoever. There are, however, exceptions to every rule.>
Thanks.
<Wishing you well, -Sabrina> Fish Compatibility 8/4/05
Would a sixline wrasse and a royal Gramma likely be compatible in a 90
gallon tank? Thanks.
<Hi Jon... Provided your fish load is low, you
shouldn't run into any serious situations with these two particular
fish. Both do have the potential to be somewhat aggressive, therefore it
would be best if you add them as juveniles simultaneously. - Ali>
Skimmer, missing Gramma
Can a skimmer break down?
<Yes>
I
don't see anything mechanical on it but there is no separation
process occurring just water flowing in and out.
<No separation
process? You mean no collectant? Likely not a worry... but a matter of
establishment of "balance" in your system... the live rock, substrate
organisms taking up, changing many of the phobic molecules that your
skimmer used to remove.... As long as air and water are mixing in the
units contact chamber, and water level in it are about right... no
worries. If you consider that some element of water flow is occluded,
you would do well to disassemble the unit, take it to a deep sink or
outside area, rinse the affected parts with a dilute, weak acid (like
vinegar/acetic), rinse and return to operation>
as a bonus question:
would a long nose hawk eat a royal Gramma.
<Not unless the two are
very different in size>
needless to
say my new rg mysteriously
disappeared (and I thought the stock market was hard)
<It is my
friend. Look around the floor, your smiling cat... tremendous jumpers.
Bob Fenner>Adding Royal grammas
Bob,
I have a 6 yr. old
reef tank w/ a 6.5 yr. old Royal Gramma. Would it be
unwise to add 2
or 3 more in hope of them perhaps breeding? Or would my
current
Gramma most likely attack the new fish? The setup is a 110g. w/ 2
Chromis viridis,1 Centropyge argi, 2 Gobiidae okinawae and a Halichoeres
(golden / yellow wrasse).
<A semi-tough question... on the one hand,
this is quite a good age for a Gramma loreto (in captivity or
otherwise)... on the other hand, the tank is likely big enough (and
likely has lots of rock, decor...) to accommodate more than one. If it
were me, I'd try introducing just one more... during a day when you can
observe them closely... and float the newcomer in a perforated plastic
gallon jar so they can "get acquainted" w/o getting to each other... and
make sure you have provision for removing the new one should there be
trouble. Bob Fenner>
Thanks for your input!
G. Ski How
aggressive is a royal Gramma?
Hey Bob,
<You got Steven Pro
tonight.>
So, I finally found my Purple back Pseudochromis a new
home, seeing as it was making it extremely difficult to get any new fish
for my 25 gal mini reef! The little devil already has managed to kill a
watchman goby, green Chromis damsel, and was on its way to tormenting to
death a Firefish goby that was twice its size! Anyway... so now that its
has a new home in my LFS's display tank, I was wondering if replacing it
with a royal Gramma (I like the purple yellow color scheme) is a good
choice?
<Not much better than the Pseudo.>
Right now my tank has a
bicolor blenny, and a Firefish goby, with some yellow and button polyps,
and I'd also like to get a 6 line wrasse.
<25 gallons is not very
big. Whatever your third fish is, it should be your last. I would get
the Six-Line over the Gramma.>
Thanks!! -David
<You are welcome.
-Steven Pro> Royal Gramma
I am reading conflicting
information on Royal Grammas. According to Scott W. Michael, author of
"Marine Fishes", the Royal Gramma can be kept in groups of one large and
several small specimen. The website of AquaLive and a few others suggest
to only keep one. Which information is correct?
<I would only keep
one in most tanks. I have seen two kept alive comfortably in a 450
gallon tank.>
The reason I ask is I was looking to create a small
school of colorful fish. I would like add these fish to a 55 gallon
currently containing 1 Tomato Clown, 1 3-striped Damsel, 1 Fiji Blue
Damsel, 2 Large Pajama Cardinals and a purple lobster. In the future I
would like to add a juvenile Yellowbar Angelfish along with the Royal
Gramma. I realize that I might be exceeding my inches per gallon once I
reach that point I am willing to remove the Damsels.
My second
question is, are two Fluval 304 canister filters and a Sea Life 60 plus
20 lbs. of liverock adequate for a fish only tank?
<I am not familiar
with the Sea Life 60 (sounds like a skimmer), but the circulation seems
low to me. The canister filters are going to become clogged and the flow
slow over a few weeks. I would consider more liverock and a few
powerheads.>
Your website is incredibly informative. I am very new to
this hobby. I get a 110% more information from looking over your FAQ's
than asking questions at the local LFS's).
Thank you and I look
forward to hearing from you. Carmina
<Glad to be of assistance.
-Steven Pro> Bicolor Gramma
Bob, I know that bicolor
grammas are aggressive to their own species, but what about clownfish?
<All fish are territorial to an extent. There should be no strong
reaction between a clownfish and a Gramma or Pseudochromis if the tank
is large enough.>
I want to get the bicolor and a flame angel at the
same time and house them in my hospital tank. I think they will get
along fine.
<If large enough, but better to quarantine separately.>
Thanks
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro> Compatibility
WWW Crew,
Thank you for all the great service you deliver to
aquarists. Presently the problem I have is that my fourline wrasse has
apparently intimidated my royal Gramma to the point that "Roy" is
completely spooked and rarely comes out of the live rock. I had begun
looking for his remains, then I saw him again. And since the wrasse
patrols every nook and cranny of LR I don't see how the Gramma can get
much comfort there. The royal Gramma is a 5 month resident, the wrasse
just 5 weeks, and the problem developed 5 days ago. They live in a 90
gallon tank with lots of LR nooks and caves, total bliss with
Bannerfish, yellow tank, a fat and grumpy clownfish, and a well
assimilated blue damsel--then these two have decided to have a spat.
I have seen the wrasse charge--they are of similar size--about 4
inches, but very different swimming styles--a rowboat vs. a torpedo. I
am concerned the Gramma will get worried or starved to death,
<Possible>
although I see no physical damage. I've considered the
following steps--please advise.
Plan A--Let it go for a while longer
(already the Gramma has come peaking out at dinner time)
<A good
sign.>
Plan B--try to net the wrasse
<I am guessing this would be
extraordinarily difficult with this fish.>
(maybe the barbless
fishhook method that Anthony describes)
<I like the method, but with
this species and its small mouth I don't know if it would work.>
and
isolate it for attitude adjustment and reintroduce it
<Likely to have
little effect on its temperament.>
Plan C catch wrasse or Gramma (I
love 'em both) sell it back to LFS.
<Probably the best plan>
Any
suggestions gratefully appreciated.
<You could always setup another
tank!>
Mark in Raleigh NC
<Good luck! -Steven Pro> Soft
Coral and Royal Gramma questions.
Thanks for that. No it's not
Dendronephthya sp. <Good! The word cauliflower scares me> Actually we
don't see those too often in the U.K. (or at least not in the shops I
visit, which is quite a range), which is a good thing. <Yes it is> My
coral is most like the Capnella, but without the 'trunk'. The polyps are
more 'fluffy' and are very low down, touching the rock, the 'trunk'
being only a centimetre or so tall, and completely hidden by the polyps.
Anyway I'll do as you say and attach the pieces to small rocks. Apart
from falling of the main rock they look healthy enough, and are fully
open. <Excellent, I hope you end up with a few extra colonies from
this.>
Thanks again. Excellent stuff as always! Brian
P.S. Any
views on small shoals of Royal Grammas. Everything I've been told says
only one Royal Gramma per tank, and then I see one of your colleagues
mentioned how good a small shoal looks. <Hmmm... who was that, I'd be
happy to swing this question to them also> Indeed, this sounds great.
What constitutes a small shoal in a 5' x2'x2' tank with LR & DSB in sump
(plus skimming).
<Grammas hang out in and close to the rocks so you
will need plenty of live rock for them. A tank your size with ample live
rock could support a nice group of 5-6 individuals. They're very cool,
especially when they hang out in a cave upside-down.>
Other
inhabitants ... 1 yellow tang, 1 small blenny, 2 common clowns.
Presumably a shoal of grammas would all have to be added at the same
time. <I would. Good luck! -Kevin> The Final Resident (Adding A
Royal Gramma)
Hi, Hope things are going well for all of you
there.
<Couldn't be better! Scott F. here today!>
I have a 75
gallon F/O tank with the following inhabitants: 2 clowns, 1 butterfly,
1 dwarf angel and a flame hawk. I was thinking of adding a royal
Gramma, but wanted to know if you think the others would cause
trouble. I know fish are supposed to be added according to their
aggressiveness and I should have added the Gramma before the angel and
hawk. If you think It is all right to add him, would you recommend
moving the decorations around? Thanks for your help, James
<Well,
James, the Royal Gramma is one of my favorite fishes, and I think that
it would do pretty well with the other fishes that you have. My only
concern might be the hawkfish, if it tends to be a bit overzealous in
protecting its turf. Your idea of rearranging the decor would be most
helpful in diffusing any potential territorial disputes before they get
out of hand....After adding the 'Gramma, I'd consider the system fully
stocked, and hang the "No Vacancy" sign on the tank! Have fun! Regards,
Scott F> -- James Hall - Livestock Question -
Hi, I
hope all is going well for you there. I have a couple of questions,
please. First of all, I have a 75 gallon F/O tank with the following
inhabitants: 2 false perculas, 1 lemon butterfly, 1 coral beauty angel
and 1 flame hawk. I want to add a royal Gramma. I know fish are supposed
to be added in the order of their aggressiveness and should have added
it sooner. Do you think there would be any problems with adding one now?
<Provided all these fish have plenty of places to hide, get out of the
way of others, I think the Royal Gramma will be fine.> Also, I have 2
types of flake food I feed the fish in addition to frozen. The
containers are large (5.5 ounces). I have heard that it is better to buy
smaller size containers to ensure freshness of the food. Will the food
lose its freshness and/or nutritional value if not all used up quickly?
<It will lose its freshness, but personally am not a big fan of flake
food - if you look at the price you pay per ounce, it's a rip off never
mind the fact that it's just not as nutritious as the frozen foods.>
Thank you for your help. James
<Cheers, J -- >
ADDING A ROYAL GRAMMA
I have a 75 gallon F/O tank with a pair of
clowns, 1 butterfly fish and
1 coral beauty angel. If I add a royal
Gramma will it cause problems
with the angel? I know the angel
likes to stay mostly in my rocks and
I know the royal Gramma likes
rocks also. Please advise.<There should
not be a problem with adding
the royal Gramma...enjoy!, IanB> Thank you,
James Another
Gramma? 3/13/04
Greetings! I love your FAQs, very, very good for
this hobby!
My tank: 75g with 30g refugium / 15g sump. Total water
'space' 120g. About 100 lbs LR in main, 20 lbs LR in refug. Up and
going for 1 year this month. Am 0, trites 0, trates, 5. In inhabitants
(some moved from an earlier tank): SPS, brains, and clams. 2 Clarkii
clowns (2 year old and 2 month old), 2 Royal Gramma (1 year 3 months), 1
Foxface (6 months), Lawnmower Blenny (3 months), Mandarin (2 weeks,
plenty of pods with the refug I hope ... watching), Serpent Star (1 year
6 months), 2 Cleaner Shrimp and a cleaner crew. *takes a deep breath*
<All sounds good!>
The Gramma, 1 male (3 1/2") and 1 female (2") (I
think this because they got along for 5 months in a nano tank
together). The male has his nest and I only see him at feeding
time. He is fat and energetic when he is out. He and the female will
'yell' (open mouth about 1/2 inch away) every few days. The female has
an area of the tank she hangs out in (about a 1 foot cube area). Does
my assumption on their sex sound right?
<Hard to say. I could not
find any info on the difference between sexes, or if they make pair
bonds or only associate during mating season.>
What's the chances, or
things to look for, that they are breeding. I know the male will keep
the babies in his mouth, but he's not seen that often. I've read that
one male can have several females (talking the Gramma's here obviously
... I can barely handle my wife!). With all the fish I have already
would it be a stretch to add another Gramma if I can either get a female
or one that hasn't decided yet? Any advice to try to get these little
cuties to procreate?
<My hunch is that your tank is big enough and
has enough hiding places that your current grammas are tolerating each
other. Adding another may cause problems regardless of sex (even if you
could differentiate!). Grammas are not mouth brooders. They most
likely lay eggs in a nesting site. Even if you successfully spawned
them, rearing the larvae is probably very difficult. If you have an
interest in breeding marine fish, Banggai cardinals are about the
easiest to try.>
Last question that I think I know the answer to, but
I just have to ask for my wife. If I don't get another Gramma, do I
have room for a purple tang? She really wants something that constantly
swims and is a tang ... and is not yellow (she says I have to much
yellow! lol). Thanks for your time!!! T.J.
<A 75g tank is (or will
quickly become) cramped quarters for a purple tang. A half dozen or so
green Chromis or blue reef Chromis provide a lot of movement, are
inexpensive and quite attractive. Best regards. Adam>
Bristleworms in a Nano (3/30/04)
First of all I live in
Singapore and most of our marine fish come from Indonesia and the
Philippines. I however stumbled across a store that only deals with
seahorses and the shipper had added a couple Royal Grammas along in the
shipment. Nice guy huh. We don't get Royal Grammas in Singapore, we only
get false grammas. So to my luck, there was a Royal Gramma pair for
sale. How do I know they were a pair? Because they were living in the
same cave. So I happily bought them both for $50 bucks and even bought
the LR that was the roof of their home. After dipping them for an hour
in Paraguard-Seachem, I acclimatized them to my tank water and
subsequently released them. My other inhabitants are 1 medium golden
maroon clown, 1 firefish goby and 1 fire shrimp and a turbo snail. <The
Maroon Clown will get too big for your tank an will likely kill all
other fish as it gets bigger--they are very aggressive.> Upon entry into
my tank, the grammas went into separate caves, All was well for a few
hours until I noticed that the larger of the two was out and about and
"exploring" the new surroundings and the smaller female, was not. I
decided to investigate. The cave in which she was hiding was lifted from
the tank and turned upside down, to my horror, she was dead. Stuck by
the mouth to an opening in the LR and entire stomach was eaten away and
appeared greeny blue. My tank has been running for a year and I have
constantly had fish disappear mysteriously. <Hmm. Either something's
getting them or they're dying of some sort of shock or illness or
toxin.> Damsels, clowns, Chromis even 2 humpback shrimp. Months ago I
removed a 1/2 inch mantis and a mushroom covered rock that contained
about 20 large bristle worms. I thought I got them all. Bristle worms
eat fish. <No, most do not eat living fish, only dead ones.> It's a
shame that so many people think that they eat left over food scraps
alone and do not touch the livestock. They do and they do it often.
<What evidence do you have of that. Just because you have fish dying in
your tank and the Bristleworms appear to have eaten them does not mean
they killed the fish. Most Bristleworms are scavengers that cannot catch
a living, healthy fish unless maybe it's sleeping.> I lost 5 Chromis in
a week at one time. <Still, unless you actually saw a Bristleworm catch
and kill a living fish, you cannot be certain the Bristleworm did it.
The sun came up the morning my grandmother died. That doesn't mean it
killed her. Coincidence does not prove causality.> My water parameters
have been constant and within those recommended by everyone. <Zero
ammonia, Zero nitrite and minimal nitrate are the only acceptable
numbers.> I really do not know what to say. I was dreaming of breeding
grammas to make them available to other reef keepers here in Singapore
and I am only left with a male Royal Gramma now. <It is virtually
impossible to breed Grammas. You need a system of hundreds of gallons.
They simply do not get along in such a tiny tank. Even though they
appeared to be "mated" they were very unlikely to stay so in such a tiny
tank. I wouldn't be surprised if the one mortally injured the other and
then it died in its cave. No way to know. I can tell you that your tank
is too small for more than a couple of small fish.> Bristle worms are a
pain and should be boiled if not deep-fried and fed to Osama Bin Laden.
I also strongly believe that they carry parasites that can be
transmitted to the fish when they are bitten. <There is no evidence of
this. Bristleworms perform many beneficial functions and get a bad rap.
Not to say they are not without risk, but only a few of the bigger ones
pose a real risk. They make a convenient target for your wrath, but I
suggest you thoroughly review your techniques. As for the Gramma, it may
have died of the stress of being shipped so far or from the dip. No way
to know for certain.> My firefish goby once had his entire pectoral fin
ripped off right to its body and till this day, lucky he survived the
trauma, has a retarded fin that refuses to grow back. His pectoral fin
resembles a strand of human hair in terms of what is left. <And how do
you know that a Bristleworm did it? Did you watch the actual event?
Perhaps you still have a mantis hiding in your tank.> Bristle worms
should not be in any tank. <Not so. As stated, the smaller ones serve
useful functions.> They are pests, eat/attack livestock and corals.
<Corals yes, fish seldom.> So what if they eat excess food? reefers
should control the amount of feeding in the first place. <I will not
argue with this last point, but they eat more than just "extra food"
They also eat fish poop.> I'm seriously pissed off with these worms.
<Well, I'm sorry you're having such trouble with your tank, but I would
not be so quick to blame the Bristleworms. It is very unlikely that they
are the cause of all of this. If you want them gone, you could pull out
all of your rock and dip it for a few moments in hypersaline water (SG
about 1.035). This will drive most of them out of the rock. Read more
about this technique on WWM. As for your fish losses, I'd suggest a
little introspection and openness to other, more likely problems than
the Bristleworms. As for my tank, I'll keep my worms because they are
not causing any problems. Of course, it is 180 gallons, and any problem
is going to be much bigger in a 15. I wish you good luck and hope things
turn around for you. Steve Allen> ADDING A ROYAL
GRAMMA
<Hi, MikeD here>
Hi, hope all is going well there.<If
you only knew!> I just had a royal Gramma die because of being picked
on by a yellow tang, which has since been taken out of the tank.<OK.
This begs a question. Royal grammas are small members of the sea bass
family that live in caves, nooks and crannies in the reef. If he had
sufficient shelter, how could the tang pick on him?> I know fish should
be added in the order of their aggressiveness; and the royal Gramma was
the first fish I added after setting up my tank. Do you think I could
add another one now after having added the rest of my inhabitants
without problems?<That's entirely dependent on the question that I asked
about the amount of LR and hiding places, and the smaller the tank the
more important this becomes. If you have an "open, airy tank" where all
of your fish HAVE to be in the open, you'll have a repeat
performance.> I have a pair of Percula clowns, flame hawk, coral beauty
angel and a butterfly fish.<The clowns, the hawkfish and the angel are
all tough enough to kill a royal Gramma with nowhere to hide.>
Thank
you for your time.<You're welcome and good luck!> James
Gramma Compatibility
Hi all!<Howdy, Cody here today.>
After
three weeks in quarantine my new Royal Gramma was put into my main reef
tank (72 Gallon) two days ago. My tank is just over a year old and the
few fish I have gotten along great.
The problem is that my usually
docile Coral Beauty is having a fit. The Royal Gramma headed for a hole
in the rocks two days ago when put in the tank and is still in there.
Any time she (he?) ventures a nose out the Coral Beauty flies at her and
drives her back in. I've squirted some brine ship near the hole, but I'm
pretty sure she isn't get much to eat.
I rearranged the rocks around
her hide out to try to lessen the territory claims the Coral Beauty
might hold, but no dice. Here's my question. Will they get used to each
other after a while? Should I just let them work things out? Beside the
food thing I think the Gramma is safe and happy in her little cave.
I thought about trying to catch the Beauty and putting here in the
quarantine tank for a few weeks, then putting her back in the main tank.
Would that help? Would she then be the "newbie"? She'll be hard to
catch, but I think I can do it if it's a good idea.
It seems to me
that the Coral Beauty is reacting to the color of the Royal Gramma. The
purple and yellow are very close to the same color. Do you think she
thinks it's another angel fish like herself?<This would help out a
ton. If you can't catch the angel I would just let them sort it
out. They will probably be okay with time. Cody>
Thanks for all
your great advice and help!
Jim C Compatibility question
13 Aug 2004
Hello, Frank here, yes, again. <Hi Frank, MacL here
with you this fine evening.> Thanks for all the quick responses. I
would just like to know your opinion on adding a royal Gramma to a tank
with a percula clown, bicolor blenny, and six-line wrasse. I am thinking
it's okay because it's a totally different fish, not only in terms of
species, but dwelling, shape, and color, and general niche (all my fish
do different things-if you know what I mean). <It get it! Seriously I
think they would do fine.> I read that similar looking fish or fish from
the same species tend to not get along. What do you think about adding
the royal Gramma? Can feeding predators suppress aggression (just in
case someone ever pics on someone)? <Honestly I know that fish that are
well fed to seem more complacent. Perhaps you can avoid the over feeding
problem by feeding directly at them with a turkey baster.> Do
compatible relationships in the tank tend to sour as fish mature or can
this be avoided to by keeping them well fed? The new guy would have
places to hide and rock structure to go in and out of. Thank you in
advance, Frank. <I think the big thing is just to make sure that as they
grow they continue to have enough room.> Royal Grammas
Blundell,
I believe you and trust your expertise, but am just
curious as to why not the Gramma with the Yasha haze goby? << Well
don't think of me as an expert. Just think of me as someone who's
purchased about 8 royal grammas. I just think they are much more
difficult than most people say. So it has nothing to do with the goby,
it is just the size and maturity of the tank that worries me with
grammas. >>
<< Blundell >> Marine quarantine, clownfish
behavior, mixing grammas
1. I have an empty 20g tank that sits in
the garage. I would like to set it up for a QT tank, but don't want
to have the heater running 24/7. I am thinking of an insulated
blanket of some sort - perhaps a modified moving <When the fish are
in the tank, a heater is a must for a constant temperature.>
blanket. Will total darkness for extended amounts of time (2-3 weeks)
cause fish to go psycho?
<Total darkness for such a long time
would not be beneficial for the fish. Just about any light will do just
fine for a QT. You can also purchase a standard socket/reflector and run
a regular 50wt bulb off of that for less than $10.00 from Home Depot.
This is a very cheap way to go about getting light for the QT.>
I
don't need the fishy version of Hannibal Lechter
causing havoc in my
display tank after doing hard time in a dark QT...
2. Do clowns
rest? I was up at 0300 last night, whipped out my...flashlight, and
had a look at things. Everyone was "asleep" except for the two
clowns...they were bobbing along - fat, dumb and happy. Do they
ever "sleep"?
<No, they do not sleep in the way that we think of
sleep. They do not have eyelids, and they do not loose consciousness
during the night due to sleep. Instead, they rest. They will always be
on a constant alert, but they will rest -- they will often lay in the
anemone for a few seconds, or swim around it very slowly.>
3. I have
a Royalus grammiticus (my version of scientific naming...). Your
faq says not to add another...c'mon, can I? Please? He's the coolest
fist in the tank - along with the duskimus jawfishicus. I have a
120g, 6 feet long - isn't that enough room for them to roam? I
mean, c'mon - can't we all just get along?
<It would be very
very risky to add two of them. If you did, you would need to add them at
the same time. Because your tank is so long, however, it may be
possible. If you did decide to get another, I would first re arrange
your rockwork so that both will establish their territory again. This is
likely to reduce any aggression. I would also turn the lights completely
off when adding the fish. But as I said above, this is extremely risky.
You may end up loosing the newly added fish due to aggression. And as
you likely already know, the Royal Gramma is a very aggressive fish.>
Thanks,
Dave Brooks
<Take Care! Graham.>
San Diego
Compatibility issues
Hi Crew,
<Samuel>
I have a six line
wrasse and a clown goby in a 10 gallon tank which is 1 1/2 years old
and very stable. I want to add a royal Gramma.
<... I would not do
this... too small a volume principally>
I searched through
responses and found the question, but the answer was 'it would be
nice if you can pull it off'. Did you ever get a confirmation as to
whether the 2 did tolerate each other.
<Maybe not... I and sometimes
Marina and Anthony place the ongoing "FAQs", and try to put them in
order...>
I know my tank is small but I would like to try it if
there is a chance it will work.
<Not a real good chance... if you do
try this, be prepared... put the new animal in early in the day when you
can be around to observe it... and have means (like a plastic, floating
colander) for separating the new addition, okay from the store to return
it>
From my own small experience I have found that what looks like a
good match may not last. I used to have 2 peppermint shrimp for over
6 months and then they disappeared without a trace. I have no doubt
it was the wrasse since at that time I found him with an injured eye.
<Good observations. Bob Fenner> Gramma Death
(2/14/05)
Hello. I love your site. Very valuable info! Anyway,
tonight I had my first fish death. I'm very sad, and I don't want it to
happen again.
<So sorry to hear. Steve Allen with you tonight.>
I have a 75 gallon FOWLR. I have 4 of the original damsels I originally
cycled the tank with (started 3 months ago), 2 peppermint shrimp, a few
hermit crabs and snails, and I HAD (until tonight) a royal Gramma
(introduced about 3 wks ago). There has always been some aggressive
behavior of the damsels (the yellow tail is especially territorial)
towards the Gramma, but I had never seen anyone actually fighting. I
have plenty of hiding places for everyone.
<But if the hiding fish
is too scared to come out, it will starve.>
Last night I saw some
external wounds on the Gramma and his tail was a little torn.
<Somebody got 'im.>
Today I couldn't find him, and tonight he's
dead. He looks pretty bad, like another fish just really tore into him!
<Much of this damage was probably done after he died.>
I'm
devastated...should I remove the damsels (or that one) before getting
any more fish?
<I'd pull all of them. They are notoriously
aggressive and your particular yellow-tail seems more so than average
for this species. I think those who advocate using damsels for cycling
do a disservice to unsuspecting aquarists and to the fish. It is easy to
cycle a tank without fish. This avoids causing unnecessary stress to the
fishes and does not leave folks stuck in your situation.>
2
Ocellaris clowns were going to be my next purchase.
<Pretty fish.
Even these are occasionally aggressive, but seldom a problem. Why two?
They do not need mates (or host anemones) to thrive. With only one, you
can have something else too. But if you like the appearance, two is fine
if they pair up properly. Search WWM for tips.>
Thank you so much
for your advice! Tait
<Hope this helps.> -
Chalk Bass Compatibility -
Hi there! I've been looking through
your FAQs and info, and as far as I can understand, chalk basses are
from the same family as royal grammas...
<Yes, both basses
[Serranidae] although in different genera.> <<Mmm, actually Grammas are
in a separate family, Grammatidae... but these families are not very
distally related. RMF>>
I have a well-established 32 gal reef tank
with a chalk bass, green Chromis, ocellaris clown, firefish and a few
inverts (shrimp, hermit, etc...) They are all really peaceful and seem
to do greatly together. I also have LPS and soft corals... My question
is, will it be OK if I put a Royal Gramma with these guys?
<I'd
recommend against it only because your tank is full, livestock wise...
the fish would likely get along given more space but I think this will
put your tank over the edge both socially and biologically.> Will there
be any territoriality/species problems with my bass? (I love this guy!!
so bright and beautiful colors, and lots of personality ;) Thanks a
lot!!! Ivan
<Cheers, J -- >
My Gramma's Dead!
I found my new royal Gramma dead recently in my QT tank. His fellow
mates in the QT tank were 3 Ocellaris clowns less than 2 inches each. He
was about the same size as they were. His tail fin was frayed when I
found him but no obvious external wounds on the body. Could those sweet
looking clowns have ganged up on him? Everyone was eating heartily in
the QT tank.
<Very unlikely C. Do. James (Salty Dog)>
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