Pond Filters For Large Saltwater Systems? – 03/28/08 Good morning folks, <<Back at ya, Ben!>> Great website! <<Thank you…quite the collective effort>> I am a professional aquarist. <<Hmm, I wonder what that means exactly…someone who’s “in the biz” in one capacity or another, I suppose>> I have been for 16 years now. <<Some 30+ years under my belt…though aside from a short stint in retail, the time has been spent as a mere “hobbyist”…though I dare say, my interest/involvement has been/is anything but casual. Wait a minute…this ain’t about me…. [grin]>> For 6 years now, I have been running my own aquarium sales/maintenance/installation company with very great success. <<Ah good!>> I have recently been contacted by a high end restaurant with stores nationwide. <<Ooh…opportunity a-knockin’>> Each location has a 2,200 gallon SWFO system. <<Neat>> The two in my area are doing very badly so I was called in to take a look. <<Unfortunately this seems to be all too often the case with these systems…I do hope you can/will turn things around>> I was appalled to say the least. <<Is generally my reaction as well>> The aquarium is run by an AquaUV Ultima II pond filter. <<Mmm, so in other words…a very large detritus trap. Don’t suppose you took any water-quality readings? Would be interesting to note>> This one has a capacity of 2000 gallons as far as ponds go. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this is not adequate. <<Actually Ben…if the filter is saltwater-safe, it would be quite good at removing suspended material as an “ancillary” filtration device. But…the filter would require backwashing at least every couple of days, in my opinion. Which may not prove convenient/economically feasible considering the volume of water involved re>> I will ask Aqua about the capacity of these filters for saltwater use but one of my questions was about the experience, if any, the WWM crew has had with large aquariums using these filters. <<Can’t say I’ve ever seen one used this way, even on large centralizes retail systems. Bob’s experience here will far outweigh any of mine, perhaps if he sees this he will comment. Though I must warn, he is currently out of the country with questionable NET access>> Do they work well on saltwater aquariums when sized properly? <<I suppose it could…with proper maintenance/husbandry…and if the unit is saltwater-safe>> The next question involves turn over rates on very large aquariums. I worked at the Houston Zoo for two years where I was in charge of a 4000 gallon reef exhibit so I am familiar with very large systems. <<Excellent>> My question is though; do you guys feel that the same rules as applies to smaller aquariums translate to huge ones? <<For the most part, yes>> I realize that the turnover rate requirements may depend on the type of filtration employed. <<Indeed…and in my opinion, actual “turn-over” (as in processing the water through a sump/filter) is less important than providing good “flow” within the system…keeping in mind that on most systems, the major/best biological filtration is performed by the rock/substrate within the display>> If we were talking trickle filters here I would assume at least 5 time volume turnover or more. <<I think you could get by with less>> The problem is that space is limited underneath this aquarium and a trickle filter for this size aquarium would truly be huge. <<Perhaps fluidized-bed filters?>> When I redo these systems I will be looking for something more efficient with a smaller footprint. I have been researching this with the idea of a fluidized sand filter in mind. <<Ah! Great minds……. [grin] >> Deltec has some nice ones, albeit expensive. <<You get what you pay for>> Any advice here as to if this is the avenue I should be looking down and if so what brand? <<I believe this to be a very good “avenue.” Pentair Aquatics offers some “economical” fluidized-bed filters (Rainbow) for systems up to 900-gallons that could be plumbed in “series” for larger systems>> If I used a sump and a fluidized sand filter, would I need to flow through at least 5 time turnover? <<No, not in my opinion…follow the rated volume for the filters used>> Don't worry. I won't hold you responsible...haha. I am a professional. I am just looking for the combined experience and knowledge from you guys. Bouncing ideas of your heads. <<Understood, mate>> The aquariums do not have a sump down below which means no skimmer...pitiful. <<Agreed>> When I redo it I will put one in. <<Excellent>> I would also think that on this size SWFO system, ozone would be a huge help as for clarity of water and breaking down organic pollutants. Wouldn't you agree? <<Yes, very much so…and would not have to be an overly large unit either, I would think…perhaps as little as 500mg per hour. Do have a look at the units offered by Ozotech…very high quality and long lasting>> That is enough for now. I am sure I might bounce some more ideas of you guys shortly. <<Okay>> Until then.....down some Belgian white ales for me (assuming you like them)...cheers. Ben Johnson Captive Aquatic Ecosystems <<Mmm, only have a few Beck’s in the fridge at the moment…perhaps this afternoon on the deck… Be chatting. Eric Russell>> Re: Pond Filters For Large Saltwater Systems? – 04/11/08 Thank you very much for the reply. <<Quite welcome, Ben>> I have some more filtration quandaries to bounce off your collective skulls. <<Bounce away>> As I stated in the last letter, I am being tasked with fixing the problems of a 2,200 gallon saltwater fish only system in a restaurant. <<I do recall>> I am attaching some pics of what is in place right now. <<I see them; mostly…I am getting a compression error on the two filter-design images and can’t view them>> The tank has an overflow built in but is being filtered by an Aqua Ultima II filter (very good filter but undersized for this tank and the application of it is all wrong), an Aqua sterilizer (again very good unit but they used the wrong ones), and two Sequence Hammerhead pumps. No sump, no skimmer, no ozone (mandatory IMHO on tanks this large and public) <<I am in agreement>> ......No joke. Whoever set this up has never done this before. <<Mmm…maybe so>> If they have then there are other tanks out there with large, beautiful and dying fish out there. <<A probability…it has been my experience that systems like these (restaurant/store/office installations) often suffer from improper or inadequate installation and neglect. I sincerely hope you will make a difference here>> I just wanted one or more of you "old salts" over there to look at how I propose to change things and let me know if you see anything that is amiss or that could be done differently. <<As the saying goes…“there’s more than one way to skin a cat”… As I’m sure you are aware, this system could be reconfigured a number of ways…and even the existing configuration could probably be made to work with a few tweaks here and there, along with better maintenance and husbandry practices…and possibly a close look at stocking levels. Be that as it may…I am quite happy to proffer my opinions>> I am attaching pics that I drew on the computer that detail my proposed changes. <<Am afraid these are the images that I can’t get to render>> First off, one of the problems is that I am fixing someone else's bad engineering. <<And though not necessary… As such, perhaps it would be best to tear out all and rebuild…reusing what components you can>> What I would do if tasked to build it from the beginning is different then what I am doing to fix this one. <<Understood>> The filtration on this system can only be located underneath the tank. If I where doing it from scratch then there would be two cabinets on either side of the aquarium to house things like a very tall RK2 skimmer and fluidized sand filter etc. <<Have you presented these thoughts to the client? It may be much more work/trouble/expense; but in the long-term the improved functionality and ease of maintenance will make all the difference in this tank>> What I have decided to do then would be to employ multiple shorter skimmers and filters in a sump. <<Okay>> The black boxes labeled skimmers in my drawing are 4 Deltec Turbo 1060S's. <<Hmm…just a thought…have you considered contacting Euro-Reef and seeing what they can do re some custom units to fit your situation/space limitations?>> The tan circles are Aquatic Ecosystems Quicksand fluidized sand filters. I have them staggered so they don't pick up any water from each other. This is the only part of my design that I have not completely sold myself on. Fluidized sand filters where chosen because of space limitations. I needed something with a small footprint but very efficient. They are a pain in the ass though. Not only that but though they have the capacity to biologically filter a ton of waste, they can't pass that much water through themselves because that would blow out all the sand inside them. When you see that the Lifeguard units say that the smallest unit can filter 300 gallon that is misleading. The capacity of the sand inside is capable of handling that bioload yet you can only pass around 100 gallons an hour or so through them. That is not going to work on a 300 gallon of course. <<Mmm, I disagree…though it should not be “too” low, the flow rate through these units does not have to be high…and the turnover-per-hour certainly doesn’t have to match the volume of the system to be effective>> My question is do you think using 8 or so fluidized sand filters on this 2,200 gallon is silly? <<No…I don’t>> Between the Ozotech ozonizer, <<A good choice>> 4 high-end skimmers, and huge area with T5 lit Chaetomorpha, and hundreds of pounds of med grain aragonite gravel, <<Only “hundreds?” Not nearly enough for this size tank if it is going to be relied upon as a primary means of processing Nitrogenous waste… in my opinion. My 375g home reef employs 1,300 pounds of sugar-fine Aragonite, between the display and the refugium>> do you see a need for this much biological filtration on top off all this? <<I do think it very likely you will need some type of supplemental biological filtration>> Does this setup of staggered FSFs (fluidized sand filters) seem like a way to go or does it seem a waste of space. <<I don’t think the sand filters are a waste of space, no…I consider this type filter to be more efficient re than most any other “biological” solution>> If I made a giant wet dry filter for this tank do you know what the cubic feet requirement of bioballs per gallon of saltwater would be? Meaning, how many cubic feet of bio balls would I need to take on a moderately stocked 2,200 gallon saltwater aquarium with all this other filtration? <<I do not believe a wet-dry filter to be your best option here. But if you were to go that route, the “volume” of the unit would be decided by the particular media used. I would follow manufacturer recommendations re, and size the unit “irrespective” of the other filtration employed>> As far as the attached pix goes: KONA FILTER DESIGN DESCRIPTION: This how I intend to filter it Kona filter design: This is the above pic without all the confusing text on it. <<Mmm…do wish I could see these>> KONA TANK PLUMBING: This is how I am going to do the returns coming off the Sequence pumps. <<Must state, I do not like the application of the check-valves… These “will” fail…>> KONA LAYOUT: This is a drawing of what it looks like now. AQUA FILTER: This is the bio filter. <<Mmm, yes…does look rather “anemic” for this system>> PUMP ON A RAG: The people that set this tank up installed Sequence Hammerhead pumps....on a dishrag....nice. <<I’m sure it serves the purpose…though it is less than professional in appearance. I find the rubberized material that interlocks to be placed on shop floors and the like works quite well when cut down and placed under pumps or other “vibrating” equipment. The material is water resistant/proof, looks “professional,” and is readily available at most any Lowe’s or Home Depot>> Everything else is self explainable. Thanks for the feedback...I look forward to your opinions. <<I do hope they are of use to you. Good luck with your venture…I would be very interested to know how things progress/turn out. Cheers mate! Eric Russell>>

R2: Pond Filters For Large Saltwater Systems? (2,200g Tank Restoration) – 04/12/08 Eric, <<Hello, Ben>> Thank you very much for your opinion. <<Quite welcome>> As far as the check valves go, I think they would be good for many years <<Maybe so…but when it happens…and on a system of this size…the liability alone could be catastrophic>> but you are right about them...especially if I am running ozone I suppose that over time the EPDM rubber in the check valve would be a little more worse for the wear. Actually, if done right, the ozone would never make it to the check valve and if it did I would have worse problems then that. Maybe I will just drill a finger sized hole into the PVC pipe inside the overflow box as a standard anti back siphon. <<I’ve never liked this solution either… The is still a potential for failure (clogging)…always best to design/position the plumbing such that all transient water volume can be contained in the sump when the pumps are off>> A hole can't really fail. <<I can tell you from experience…this is not the case>> I appreciate your opinion on the FSFs as this was the most difficult part for me to feel OK about but now you are one of many other pros telling me that it would be great. <<The fluidized-bed filters are great/respond quickly for handling large and shifting bio-loads>> I will call Euro-Reef to see if they could do something custom for me. <<Yes do! Very nice folks…and I “love” their skimmers (I have an older CS12-3 with updated ER-modded Eheim 1262 pumps, on my reef system), if they can put something together within your budget I have no doubt you will be very pleased>> I did like the idea of multiple units skimming the Hell out of the water passing by but after four of this size Deltec you could almost buy a new 2,200 gallon aquarium. <<Yes indeed…though don’t expect the Euro-Reef skimmers to cost much less. High quality design/materials/workmanship does come at a premium. I am just hopeful they can provide a solution that may be more space-saving and hopefully less maintenance intensive. We shall see, eh?>> Do you find many problems using aragonite sand on aquariums housing large predatory fish? <<In what aspect?>> As far as reefs go we have things like Nassarius snails and sand sifting sea stars and gobies but of course these would more then likely be eaten. <<A possibility, yes…though I think the addition of the Nassarius snails is worth the try>> If the sand isn't mixed around then I can't see how this wouldn't just turn into a nutrient trap. <<Ah, well…the fine grain structure of the sugar-fine Aragonite makes this less likely than with coarser substrates. Couple this with good water flow (even fishes in non-reef systems enjoy/benefit from strong and vigorous water movement) to help keep detritus suspended, and fears of a nutrient trap are small. Do also consider…even if the fish don’t allow the addition of larger sand-stirrers…the substrate will become populated with worms, small crustaceans, etc.; both macro and micro, that will utilize available nutrients and aerate the sand bed…especially if you seed the system with some live rock (recommended)>> I will try a different format for the pics I drew. I drew them in Paint in the Start menu from Windows. <<Hmm…should have worked>> I thought it was curious that these guys had a chiller on the tank. <<Hmm…if kept in an air-conditioned space and without high-intensity lighting I wouldn’t think it would need one either…unless the pump/equipment is overheating the system. Or maybe whoever did the original installation just took advantage of the client …>> I will have to check into it myself but I seriously doubt that there is enough temperature fluctuations in a 2,200 gallon in Houston, TX to warrant it. Besides it doesn't even look big enough. <<It would depend ultimately on the required “pull down”...but “if” needed, I would think a couple 1-hp units to be required>> Maybe I can find a cheaper way to data log the temp. YSI and some of those computer probe combo deals like Neptune and such might be a little too much but I just want to see the trend of the temperature throughout a couple days to see if any temp control is necessary. <<Mmm…or perhaps just a couple trips to the restaurant (morning and late evening) for a couple days, with digital thermometer in hand…>> I do greatly appreciate your input and I hope anyone reading this sees what quality of help is offered at Wet Web Media. You guys are a tremendous help to beginner and advanced professional alike. <<It is my great pleasure to share…and many thanks for the kind words. Be chatting! Eric Russell>>

300 Gallon Tank Setup 1/29/08
Dear crew, would greatly appreciate your input on how you would plumb and setup a virgin 300gallon acrylic tank?
<OK, no problem.>
Measurements are 96lX24wX30h and 3/4in thick with two overflow boxes one in each corner 5inX6in. It sits 3ft above the floor on a wrought iron stand on a cement slab. It will be a fish only tank, but would like to try reef in 4 or 5yrs. I had a duplicate tank in glass 10yrs ago, but lost it in a divorce. I ran 1 ½” bulkheads in each overflow box (no risers, pretty noisy) which teed under the tank into a 55gallon tank I turned into a wet /dry. I had a 1in return run by a little giant#4pressure pump which ran 4ft up, back into the middle of the tank. I also was running an ocean/clear canister filter on a separate little giant#4 from two 1in bulkheads on the bottom of the tank. I had a top fathom protein skimmer I ran part time (always had to tinker with it) with fluorescent lighting (nothing special). I also was using 4in of crushed shells for substrate.
Ten years later here I am starting from scratch. Here are my questions. 1. What modifications would you make to the plumbing?
<The plumbing sounds fine so long as you plan to run 1500 gph or less (maybe around 1000gph to stay safe) through your overflows. If you want more plan on an extra 750 max per each additional 1 ½” or step them up to 2” for around 1300 gph max. Do leave some safety margin in these overflow rates, do not run them to full capacity. It is also a good idea to have some redundancy here. As far as returns, this will depend on the flow rate also. You can run your returns through the bottom as before, just be sure the actual outputs are near the top of the tank to prevent too much siphoning in the event of a power outage.>
2. Are wet/dries outdated and canisters better (rainbow)?
<More modern day reefs no longer use either, as well as the growing number of FOWLR (fish only with live rock) tanks. The live rock provide biofiltration and your sump houses equipment such as your skimmer, heater, a filter sock if you want, etc. If you want a reef down the road you will need to invest in live rock anyhow, and it is a great addition to a fish only tank. Also consider adding a refugium, the bigger the better.>
3. What protein skimmers would you recommend (here AquaC is pretty good).
<These are good skimmers, do look at the EuroReef line also.>
4. Would I be better off with metal halides (what wattage) or compact fluorescents?
<For a fish only it is just what light appeals to you to see your fish. Halides will cost more to run and will generate more heat that will be transferred to the tank. If you will need them when you convert to a reef depends on what you wish to keep. If it will truly be 4 or 5 years before the reef conversion, fluorescent will be the way to go, unless you particularly want the shimmer halides provide.>
5. what type of substrate crushed coral or sand?
<Sand, it will trap less detritus. Also consider setting up a DSB, check out the article and related FAQ’s here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/deepsandbeds.htm . DSB’s will provide some denitrification.>
6. Would you add another pump for just circulation?
<Yes, again how much depends on what you run through your sump, but a minimum of 10 times your tank volume per hour for total circulation. You can accomplish this with powerheads also.>
7. What size risers would you put in the overflow boxes to cut down on noise, if 1 1/2 bulkheads would you use 1 1/2diam risers or reduce to 1in.
<The larger for sure.>
8. How high would you go with the risers, 12in high?
<First of all, for risers, I assume you are talking about the Durso style standpipes? Put them a few inches below the upper edge of the overflow. If you put them too low you will have much more noise from the water falling into the overflow.>
9. What type of pumps would you recommend, am I better off with pond pumps?
<For return pumps, Iwaki or Eheims, and PanWorld are my personal choices. If you want a closed loop for circulation the Reeflo Dart pumps are very energy efficient a quiet.>
10. Would you recommend the use of a uv light or ozone?
<I am not a fan of using the UV. Ozone is a great addition, but not completely necessary. A good skimmer, addition of a refugium and live rock will to fine.>
I ran my old tank for 3yrs without any problems, but think I was a little lucky since my tank was overstocked. Thanks for your time and recommendations.
thanks, james
<Welcome, do keep reading, things have changed a bit since your last tank. I have included a few links to get you started, good luck, Scott V.>
http://wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i5/Filtration/Filtration.htm
http://wetwebmedia.com/liverock1.htm
http://wetwebmedia.com/thrhullsizing.htm
http://wetwebmedia.com/refugium.htm

250 Gallon Flow 10/22/07
Hi Crew,
I am still in the process of setting up my 250G. The tank is 72x30x25. I wanted it to be wide so fish can swim both sides of the rockwork. Along with the sump return I am setting up a closed loop with 2 x 1.5" feeds located on each side of the tank about 2" from the bottom of the tank. I was thinking about putting suction strainers (such as the ones here: http://www.lagunakoi.com/prod202.html) on each one and building a "cage like" that in the October "Tank of the month" and building the rockwork around it. Seemed like a good idea. Now I am concerned that I will be getting too much flow around the bottom of the tank and stirring up the sand too much. I'm planning on around a 2" sand bed and then having the intake about 2"above the sand. The closed loop will be driven by a Sequence Dart pump. Also, only one side will be operating at a time. Each side consisting of a 1.5" feed and 3 X ¾" (or 1" ?) returns. The system will be set up so that when the left intake is open, it will output on the right side, and when the right intake is open it will output on the left side. Onto my questions; do you think that the 1½ " feed will starve the dart too much?
<Sequence recommends that the intake line be as large or larger than the output line. That being said, many people plumb Darts with 1 ½ " intakes with no issues. Just be aware that there will be some diminished flow doing so. >
Will there be too much suction in the lower portion of the tank (stirring up the sand)?
<The suction at 2" above the sand is cutting it very close, especially when you consider that the suction in the line is not the only thing that can kick sand into the intake. Certain fish love to blow sand around. Reef pumps inevitably process some sand, but I would try to minimize it and put the intakes higher in the tank. You could even possibly angle the intakes up with elbows considering you plan to hide them with rockwork. This would give you some adjustability in the setup. >
Will the 3 X ¾" returns generate enough flow?
<I would probably make that 4 X ¾" or 3 X 1", 3 X ¾" would be awful brisk flow. As for overall tank turnover, without factoring in your sump return, this leaves you in the ballpark of 11-13 times turnover (accounting for intake size, plus there will be some friction loss), not much for SPS corals. It depends on what you want to keep in the tank and the flow of your sump return. >
Grateful as always for your input.
Olly
<Nice tank, have fun, Scott>

Re: 250 Gallon Flow 10/23/07
Thanks again for your insight,
<Anytime, the question is much appreciated>
as far as flow goes, I have another sequence dart that is plumbed into the 2x 1.5" overflows going back to 4 1"returns.
<Two 1.5" overflows will probably not flow the full force of your Dart. You can put a ball valve on the output side and throttle the pump down. Do be careful about running your overflows at full capacity, some safety margin should be left.>
Do you know of any calculator to figure out plumbing sizes? Ie, that 2x1" = 1 x1.5" .
<The pump manufacturer has some good information on flow vs. pipe size on their website for pipe flows in accordance with their pumps. Reefcentral.com has an overflow calculator, but keep in mind this a numerical calculation and would be a best case scenario at full capacity. >
What is your opinion on spray bars? I was thinking about plumbing the returns from the sump into two spray bars front and back at the surface.
<Spray bars have the tendency to get clogged in a saltwater environment and can take a lot of trial and error to get the number of holes and the size of the holes just right. It would be less of a headache for you in the long run to stick with the 1" returns.>
Thanks again, Olly
<Thank you Olly, have fun, Scott V>

Help With Plumbing For A 300-Gallon Tank...And The Need For A Bigger Drain Or A Smaller Pump! – 07/17/07
I was hoping to get some of your opinions to help me on plumbing the returns to my tank.
<<Okey-dokey>>
I thought I had a good understanding on how I was going to go about setting this up, but the more thinking/planning about it I do- well, I think I’ve come to a point where I have thought it out too much and now I'm starting to confuse myself!
<<Hee-hee!...does happen. Let’s see if I can help make things clear again...>>
I read, read, read and then read some more articles/posts but not everything is completely consistent...that or all this research is starting to become mind numbing
<<Mmm, perhaps a bit of both... Keep in mind the information here comes from a wide array of opinions/experiences>>
Anyway, my situation/question.... I recently acquired a 300-gallon acrylic tank
<<Cool! I have a 375-gallon Tenecor acrylic display tank>>
and it has one overflow chamber built in, and has several holes drilled for returns on the tank.
<<Hmm...only one overflow on such a large tank? I hope it has a very large drain/bulkhead...>>
The guy left all his plumbing for the returns attached, and was using 4 of the holes for returning the water (the rest have plugs).
<<So there are extra throughputs available if needed?...excellent!>>
Well first off....the overflow chamber... he had a 1.5'' bulkhead fitting but chose to reduce to a 1'' standpipe (doesn't make much sense)...
<<Indeed... Typically the larger diameter is better for attenuating noise/helping with flow issues>>
I want to utilize maximum flow rate, so I replaced w/ a new 1.5'' bulkhead (b/c the other was glued to the reducer) and added a 1.5'' Durso.
<<Sounds like you know what you’re doing thus far...>>
OK, so the overflow/drain is good to go now....
<<Is a good start, agreed...but do realize the type pipe/tubing and configuration of the plumbing (drain line) will also contribute to the final result>>
As for the returns, he used 1/2'' pvc piping. I want to achieve somewhere around 1200 gph so will need to replace the piping....I plan on using a Mag-Drive 18....
<<I’m afraid this pump and this flow rate are not really practical for a single 1.5” gravity drain. Anything much over 700gph and you are going to begin to experience noise/flow issues...in my opinion/experience. This lower flow rate utilizing a smaller pump is still “plenty” for circulation through the sump. If you “must have” the higher flow rate through the sump, then you will need to install another 1.5” drain/bulkhead...or increase the existing drain/bulkhead to 2”>>
I will be attaching a tee and elbow w/ ball valve going back into the sump so I can adjust flow...
<<I strongly urge you to consider a “gate-valve” rather than the ball-valve, the former allows much more “finesse” for tempering flow>>
My question finally....I was under the impression that I need to use a 3/4'' to 1'' male adapter on the pump outlet so I can use a 1'' pipe for the return line (to handle that flow)...
<<Mmm, yes...”necking-up” the diameter of the pipe on the output side does seem to help maintain flow rates with these Mag-Drive pumps>>
Things I have been reading are now confusing me (mainly friction loss and pressure).
<<A good rule-of-thumb is to add a foot of head-height for each turn in the plumbing (tee/ell), and a foot of head-height for every ten-feet of horizontal run. So, as an example...if you have a four-foot rise, a ten-foot horizontal run, and four turns...your total head-height (head-pressure) would be equal to a vertical rise of 9-feet (4 + 1 + 4). Make sense?>>
I will be running the return line about a foot up and then splitting w/a tee into two lines... then about another foot outward on each of those lines will be split with another tee to make a total of four returns lines back into the tank....
<<Mmm...4+ feet of head-pressure then...though you will likely find the multiple tees and splitting up of the flow will result in a bit more loss than plumbing the same number of simple “turns” on a “single” line. Also, if you are after “vigorous” flow from the return lines, you will need to figure about 350gph for a ½” nozzle (i.e. 350 x four returns), and about 650gph for a ¾” nozzle (650 x four returns). But, you also can’t lose sight of the fact your current drain configuration will only handle about 700gph en toto. Are we having fun yet? [grin]>>
Since I am doing this, can I just stick with 3/4'' piping, or did I have the right idea in the first place to go to 1''??
<<If you increase the number/size of the drain bulkhead and stick with the Mag-Drive 18 pump then yes, I would use the 1” pipe but reduce the output nozzles to ½” for more forceful flow at these terminations>>
Or do you guys have any other suggestions??
<<Digest what I have put forth thus far, consider how you want to proceed, and then we can discuss further>>
And, the return holes in the tank are 1/2'', I was planning on drilling them bigger (to accommodate for bigger piping/fittings) ...
<<Not necessary for reasons stated>>
Or is there any way I can avoid doing that and use what is already there???
<<Indeed there is...>>
I hope I explained everything well enough...
<<I have a pretty good idea, yes>>
I am at work
<<Shhhh...so am I!>>
so I can't post any pics of the back of the tank, but I think the description should give you a pretty good idea of what I'm working with...
<<Yes>>
I can always post pics when I get home in the morning...Please, any info you could offer would be great!!
<<Give me a shout back if you need/wish to discuss this more. EricR>>

Re: Help With Plumbing For A 300-Gallon Tank...And The Need For A Bigger Drain Or A Smaller Pump! – 07/18/07
Hi Eric!
<<Hey Tiffany!>>
Thanks for such a fast response!
<<Quite welcome>>
I do have a few questions to clarify things.
<<Cool!>>
I was told/and have read about the standpipe flow rate, and I'm under the impression that a 1.5'' drain is rated for 1200 gph, and can even (under ideal circumstances) reach 1350 gph.
<<Indeed...but there’s often a gap between “rated” capacity versus practical application. And as for “ideal circumstances”...>>
I understand that there are other variables that will determine this (one ex: sponge pre-filter...that can greatly reduce flow-rate). So I'm not entirely understanding where you are coming up with 700gph...
<<I’m not saying you can’t get that 1.5” drain to flow 1200gph with enough “fiddling” of the setup/plumbing (e.g. aspirating the lines), but I’m doubtful you will like the resultant noise generated or the continuous messing about to keep all working/water flowing at this rate. If you already have the pump, do hook it up and see/decide for yourself>>
I am wanting to pair my pipe w/ pump accordingly, and that is why I was going with the Mag-Drive 18 (to account for the ~1200 gph drain and head loss) and being able to adjust the flow down a bit if I have to.
<<Understood...and I do agree with over sizing the pump slightly with a gate-valve plumbed on the output side for flow adjustment. If for no other reason than the fact the build-up of bio-film in the piping will eventual reduce flow of itself>>
If the drain will produce a lower gph, then I will go down in pump size for sure...
<<It will be much easier in all aspects to deal with a lower rate of flow through the sump. Consider too the desirability for some measure of a “safety margin” by NOT maxing-out the drain’s capacity should that errant snail/hermit crab/et al find its way in to the drain>>
Anyway, my main concern is obviously the pipe diameter for the return line.
<<Okay>
I'm not too worried about the smaller returns to the tank b/c the pressure will be dispersed between the 4 (and I will stick with the 1/2'' nozzles). I'm just worried, whether in be Mag18, or 12....according to pipe diameter and flow rate charts, a 3/4'' pipe can handle ~ 330 gph, 1`''- 600gph, 1.5''- 1200 gph....would using 1'' be safe for return line? Or should I go bigger and reduce the size when I split off into the 4 lines to accommodate the proper initial flow rate??
<<The 1” will be fine...and I sense some confusion here... The flow rate charts are generally for free-falling (gravity) drains...pipe diameters for pump outputs are dictated by the individual pump manufacturers. Unless otherwise stated by the manufacture, matching the pipe diameter to the output nozzle is usually just fine...though as stated earlier, their does seem to be a slight advantage to upsizing the pipe diameter on the Mag-Drive pumps (not always the case with other manufacturer’s pumps)>>
These flow rate charts are what are throwing me off, and making me second guess things.
<<Indeed>>
I know there always have to be "guidelines" and that in experience, people have been able to step outside those guidelines and have had no problems. I just want to make sure that I don't use too small of a diameter pipe to cause wear/tear and lead to leaks/busts --> not fun :).
<<This is of small concern here really. These magnetic-drive pumps are not true pressure-rated pumps and thus designed to work well against differing head pressures with flow and pressure falling off accordingly. Using (too) small diameter pipe for the length of the output would do little more than reduce the “efficiency” of this pump>>
Thanks for you help!!
<<Happy to assist. Eric Russell>>

Sand in large setup 10/18/05
Crew- 
<Craig>
Quick question. What type of commercially available sand would be acceptable to use for the deeper portion of the DSB? I am not sure I like the projected cost of putting an all aragonite 6" DSB in a 220 gallon tank. Ouch! Is there a cheaper silica free alternative to aragonite that I could likely find in bulk? How many inches of a DSB bed could be of the cheaper variety and how much should be the aragonite? Please let me know of any other details to be aware of for such a proposed DSB. If there are FAQ's that already address this, please point me that way. As always, thank you for your time. 
<Craig, here is a link to FAQ's concerning your question.  http://www.google.com/custom?q=south+down+sand&sa=Google+Search&sitesearch=wetwebmedia.com  James (Salty Dog)> 

Filtration system  11/28/05
I was wondering if you could give me some advice of some filtration systems.  My wife and I are having a 600 gallon tank built for our new house. We are setting it up marine with the intentions of keeping a small shark (Banded Cat Shark) along some other fish. I am not a beginner in the marine aquarium field but am a bit confused as to the different filtration systems I can use. I've heard of wet/dry, fluidized bed filters, skimmers, etc. If I use a wet/dry system, is a fluidized filter an option or is that over kill? 
<You can use a wet/dry system which would work well but wet/dries large enough for that tank usually aren't available over the counter. Would probably have to be special ordered.> 
What would a good system include? 
<For a non-live rock system I would go with a Pentair system (formally Lifeguard). Their triple mechanical and chemical modules can be configured to meet the demands of your system. They also make a fluidized bed module in three different sizes that can be used with the system. If using live rock, I'd go with a wet/dry filter and a 6000 gph pump. James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks for the help! 
<You're welcome> 

Question about bottom drilled 300 gal Tank... pump, filtration options   1/18/06
First of all thanks for all your help and tremendous site..
<Welcome>
Then as always compliments are followed by questions :-)
Details...
I have a 300 Gal 96L x 30H x 24W tank. The tank is drilled with 2 bottom drains that go into an Ocean Clear 325 with Iwaki Walchem WMD-40RLT-T115
and an overflow into a 60 Gal Sump with Live Rock and DSB with a Little Giant Model 4MDQX-SC as my return..
<Are these pumps still around?>
Questions:
What do you think of both pumps?
<I would switch out the Little Giant, keep it around for back-up>
Are they big enough for their duty?
<Mmm, no... the Iwaki is likely fine, about all you can do linked up with an ever-clogging particulate filter, but I would switch the second out for better service factor (heat, flow, energy consumption)...>
Would you keep the bottom drains?   
<Mmm, a tough one... as opposed to what? If it were my choice, and day one, I would not drill the bottom, but the side instead... If the bottom holes can be fitted with "riser/towers" such that the water overflows to a sump... that in turn there's room for...I would do this, and rig another "pressurized manifold" independently to remove, return water either through the back or over the top>
            If so, what do you think of the Canister filter?
<Not much... a pain in the keester to maintain, a source of nitrate, bunk in terms of flow... expensive to operate... in terms of what it does. I do hope you have multiple sets of cartridges>
In your book you state that these are a haven for waste and buildup...
<Oh! I still think so>
Thanks again for all your help and love of the hobby!!!!
Rick
<It is obvious, eh? Do take a read on WWM re Pump Selection. Bob Fenner>

DSB For A Large Tank - 04/09/06
Dear Bob,
<<EricR here this morning...I think Bob is still asleep/recovering from his Lavaman ordeal <grin>.>>
I currently have an 8ft tank and would like to add a deep sand bed to assist in denitrification and to provide more comfort for my stingray.
<<A very good idea in my opinion.  I too have a 8ft tank, with a 6" DSB...but no stingray (is a reef display).>>
I have read the article on the website, and am aware that 3" depth is a minimum.
<<Mmm...can depend on 'grain-size' of the substrate, with larger grain-sizes meaning deeper beds.  But even when using sugar-fine sand my preference is for a 4-inch minimum.>>
There is 40kg of fine coral sand, 12 kg of fine grade aragonite currently in the tank which makes up an average depth of between 1-2 inches.  I will create the DSB by adding sugar fine sand, although I would like your opinion as to how deep I should go?
<<Were it me, with this mix of sand, I would shoot for an absolute minimum depth of 4 inches...even 5 or 6 inches if your not opposed to the look/loss of depth to the open water column.
I know that bigger tanks require deeper sand beds.
<<Not sure I agree with this.  All things equal, the sand bed will be proportionately larger in the larger tank.  As far as I'm concerned, 'minimum' bed depths would apply equally to all tank sizes.>>
Current inhabitants included a small masked-stingray, 3 snowflakes.
<<Sounds like a very nice display.  This ray (Dasyatis kuhlii) seems to be one of the better choices for aquariums (not to be confused with Taeniura lymna...another/different 'blue-spotted' ray with a very poor survival record) and will definitely appreciate a 'fine' sand bed.>>
Also, I have attached a spare 10g tank as a refugium (which I know is small, but at least it puts the tank to good use) and would also like to know if creating a deep sand bed in there, without having a DSB in the main display, would have any sort of effect on denitrification?
<<Probably not a noticeable effect...considering the size/stock list of the display.  I think putting the DSB in the display is your best option.>>
I'm just trying to get my head around the proportionate area of DSB and its correlation to the degree of denitrification.
<<Please have a look here:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/deepsandbeds.htm >>
Thanks in advance,
Joe
<<Quite welcome.  Regards, EricR>>

Hybrid marine system, set-up   4/6/06
Hi,
<Hello>
I am setting up a 300 gallon reef tank with 80 gallon mud sump.  The main reef tank will house mainly SPS and live rock roughly 200kg of live rock.  I was also
planning to run a deep sand bed in the show tank as I am trying to get the maximum diversity of microfauna to help feed my Anthias and other difficult to keep species.
<Can be done, though I am a much bigger fan of having such culture, DSB areas outside main displays (in sumps, refugiums) for ease of manipulation and looks>
My plan was to place the live rock on the bare base of the tank and build up 6in of 0.2-0.05mm sand round the rocks.  Does this sound ok?
<Sure>
Also would it be a bad idea to place some coral on top of the sand bed or would this prevent oxygen transfusion and cause dead spots.
<Always a risk, consideration. The placing of anything on a substrate affects, changes the path of water circulation above and (profoundly) below/within the substrate. Good to move periodically... like every month or two>
My water flow will be 20x volume of the tank per hour with adequate lighting for the SPS and calcium reactor and Kalk stirrer to maintain calcium levels.
thanks
james
<Sounds/reads thus far. Bob Fenner>

600G In-Wall Plumbing Nightmare – 02/22/07
I wanted to bounce some ideas off of you guys, I'm open to about anything right now
<<Sure...bounce away...>>
I own a small service company, (we do custom installs as well) and we had a customer request a tank re-haul.  It is an older in wall tank that was set up for fresh, and we would like to make it into a marine Fish Only display.
<<Ok>>
It's a giant tank!
<<Cool!...love big tanks...have a 375g in-wall reef display myself>>
It's about a 600 gallon system, 10ft long x 4ft tall and about 24"-36" deep.
<<Very nice>>
It is an in-wall with the two larger viewing panes visible and the left and right sides are bricked in, so basically it's a transparent wall with the ends bricked in.
<<Same configuration as mine...>>
It has six bulkheads, ~ 1" each centered on the bottom glass every 2ft.  Underneath the tank is cabinet space, but its cut up into sections by vertical supports for the tank.
<<Indeed...but hopefully room for a sump?...refugium?>>
I can get below the house if need be to place equipment since its pier and beam.
<<Ah yes, my house has a crawl space as well...which is where I positioned the chiller for my system>>
But it would be very hard to fit a sump of any real size in between the supports.
<<Hmm, what is the possibility of pulling/reinstalling this tank and building a redesigned support stand to allow for the ancillary systems?  I built my stand to support the 375g display tank, and designed it to be open enough to fit a 75g sump and a 55g refugium beneath the display>>
The current filter uses a cartridge filter and a large external pump.
<<Mmm...a possible maintenance nightmare...in my opinion.  Am sure you are aware some purposeful chemical filtration (carbon/poly-Filter) and employment of a large fluidized-bed filter or two will serve better here.  The cartridge filter could be left in place if desired but will require strict maintenance on a weekly (or more often) basis>>
The two outer (far left and right) bulkheads had some kind of clear rigid pipe going towards the surface (I believe they were return lines) and the remaining four had strainers below the substrate
<<...?!>>
as intakes- (Could be the other way around.).  My idea was to plumb Durso stand-pipes from the outer bulkheads and tuck the Dursos along the glass on the far sides of the aquarium- (would 90 out of the bulkhead to the left and right end of the tank then go up towards the surface).
<<The fewer turns the better here.  Why not build skimmer towers to house the stand-pipes and go straight up?  The skimmer boxes could then be camouflaged with live rock>>
Or I could just pop the drain and the return right above the substrate and cover with rock.
<<Mmm...this too could work since you’re not utilizing a sump and the drains will need to be plumbed directly to a pump>>
Then plumb in two large Eheim Canister filters, and use the center as a circulation pump, the returns would have check-valves and would rise just above the sand.
<<I wouldn’t use the check-valves.  Aside from the huge amount of restriction from these valves that may damage the canister filters...sooner or later they “will” fail...though I suppose this is a small concern really considering the drains will be plumbed much like a closed-loop with a canister filter installed.  (a ball-valve to shut-off flow to facilitate maintenance of the canister filters will be a necessity.  But I still like the skimmer tower if for no other reason than to “skim” the fats/proteins/colloids/et al that collect at the water/air interface on the surface of the water)
Heating this tank, I have no idea.
<<Look to the “in-line” options available.  As implied, these heaters can be plumbed “in-line” on the output side of the canister filters>>
Plumbing a protein skimmer? - I have no idea.
<<A dilemma indeed, in the absence of a sump.  Are the ends of the tank accessible?  Perhaps you could employ several of the largest “quality” hang-on skimmers you can find (Deltec, AquaC)>>
The other options would be trying to plumb three sumps together to make a large sump- but that may be too much of a headache than its worth, or using a similar system, with an external pump and module filtration like the cartridge filter that's there now.
<<I would drill/plumb together the three largest tanks that will fit beneath the stand...if it were up to me...  You really do need someplace to install a skimmer (or “skimmers”), and probably some ancillary biological filtration.  You wouldn’t need to use “all” the drains to feed the sump and could still employ direct-fed canister filters for chemical filtration, etc if you wished.  But if a sump is just not possible then perhaps as you say, the modular filtration systems will have to do>>
Any fresh ideas would definitely help!
<<Ahh...if only I could see this arrangement firsthand>>
Oh and by the way, big fan of all of you guys, I've seen a few of you speak in Dallas, and Houston on a few occasions- always learn so much.
<<Bob has indeed assembled a fine group of folks here>>
Thanks,
Jeff Morley
<<Do keep brainstorming this Jeff, and feel free to “bounce” any further thoughts/questions my way...am certain there is a reasonable solution.  Regards, Eric Russell>>

Re: 600G In-Wall Plumbing Nightmare - 02/22/07
I've decided that it's impossible to do a sump, so I'm going to do the two Eheim canister filters with attached fluidized-bed filters-you were talking about the fluidized sand bio-filters right?
<<Correct>>
Where can I find an in-line heater that large?  How many watts is it going to take? 3,000?
<<Mmm, will have some dependence on ambient room temperature, but if not overly cool I think you could get by with around 1000-1200 watts of heat.  My system is about 500 gallons en toto and I get by with two 300-watt heaters>>
The one I've seen is $1,000- is there more economical units than that?
<<There are, have a look here: http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/9092/cid/2198  A "pair" of 300-watt heaters plumbed in series on the output side of "each" canister filter (four heaters total) should do the job I think>>
To address the film on top of the water, I'll use a large pump to move water across the surface, and perhaps an attachment that connects to the intake of the pump to skim the surface.
<<Very good.  But speaking of skimming...hopefully you have come up with a way to employ some type of foam-fractionation device as well>>
I think this is going to be the direction I go in; perhaps I'll add a UV-sterilizer as well.
<<Can be a useful tool...if maintained/kept clean>>
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Jeff Morley
Lone Star Aquariums
Custom Aquariums & Service
www.lonestaraquariums.com
<<I hope I have been of service.  Eric Russell>>

Preparation, SW, large sys... still not ready   3/21/07
Hello all!
  I have emailed your site for over a month now. The advice I have received and the knowledge I have gained is immeasurable!  Thank you.
  I will be setting up a 240g (96x24x24) in the near future.  I am going to forgo the clown trigger due to what I have read on this site and references for other local fish store owners.
  I am deeply intrigued by the Hawaiian dragon eel.  I have read up on it and asked several questions before. Thank you once again for your help.
  The Hawaiian dragon eel is going to be the center piece of my aquarium.  As for the tank mates I would really appreciate your advice.  I was thinking of adding a Pinktail trigger, Naso tang, emperor angel (I was told that the emperor angel will get to
<too>
big for the dimensions of this aquarium.
<Yes>
If so, what other large angel could suggest?)
<Mmmm, for having the Moray as your center piece... none>
and a volitans lionfish.  For filtration I will be using a Euro-reef RC250 with and ozonizer.
<Mmm... need more... biological, mechanical...>
I will be employing a closed loop system for added water movement.  As per Anthony Calfo's diagram.  I will have two overflows and was wondering how to make it a closed loop with not being able to put pvc in front of the overflow?
<Mmm... could loop around, truncate on either side, even drill through...>
  My questions are as follows.  Are these fish compatible with the Hawaiian dragon eel?
<All are potential prey>
Is this too many fish for the system?
<Mmm... not initially>
If the fishes are not compatible, what fishes would you recommend?
<Heeeee! You're not joking? To go with what? The Moray... see WWM re the "Compatibility" and "Systems" of what you list, are interested in...>
Do I have adequate filtration and water movement?  
<No>
  I would really like a trigger and a lionfish but know that this may not be possible.
  Thank you once again for your patience and time.  It is greatly appreciated!
  Brent
<You're getting closer... but I'd still be reading, studying, dreaming and scheming at this planning stage. Bob Fenner>

Extremely large tank setup, care questions.  Business possibilities.   5/13/07
Hello Mr. Fenner.  I hope emailing you direct was alright?
<All comes, goes to the same place...>
I talked with Adam Jackson from your staff and he said you would be best at answering this question so I am sending this straight to you.  Our store may have a huge tank setup in the near future and we are wondering (I get the responsibility to email you) how it is done.  I am sure you have seen the extremely large (6,000 gallon) tanks in Florida and elsewhere.  The tanks I am referring to are the cylinder tanks with the fake rock and coral insert for an overflow and return, these are at restaurants such as RainForest Cafe (not sure you've heard of that).
<Yes... have been to... even seen these tanks fabricated... SeaClear/Tradewind/Casco... in Cerritos... the four owners are friends...>
So here are the main questions, how do these tanks with a small amount of sand and no visible live rock break down ammonia and nitrite?
<Filtration provided elsewhere...>
My first thought is loads of Bioballs?
<One approach...>
I am assuming these tanks have enormous sumps filled with either the Bioballs or a massive amount of live rock?
<Another>
How frequent would a very large water change be on a tank like this?
<With "proper" maintenance, not often... expensive to toss...>
What type of equipment is needed for something like this, meaning UV sterilizers, protein skimmers, filters, return pumps, and anything else?
<I would limit the use of UV here, but if it can be incorporated, add an Ozone generator...>
To be honest this is so far over our heads that I'm not sure how we would be able to pull something like this off.
<Mmm, keep gathering data...>
How much would it cost to have you flown in and advise us as to what to do (I am joking, unless it's possible)?
<Am sure there are folks able to help you locally... I'd have Jeff Turner on by... will BCC him here>
I believe those are the main questions that we have for you at the moment.  Once again I hope it was OK to email you direct.  Thanks, Ryan Nienhuis.
<No worries. Bob Fenner>

Large marine filter gear 6/6/07
First, thank you in advance for your time and expertise. I live in FL and building a 300gallon, 375 with refugium filter reef system.
<How nice!>
An ETSS 600 Pro skimmer was recommended to me.
<Mmm, there are better choices... Posted on WWM...>
Is this the best and should I use ozone to a new system.
Regards, Shawn Sturm
<I would definitely look into and use Ozone (and maybe even a desiccator to go with it) if this were my large marine system. Bob Fenner>
 

Big Tanks Need Big DSBs – 06/30/07 Hello, <<Hi There>> My main display tank is around 900-gallons. <<Neat!>> My Nitrates have shot up lately, to 50+. <<Not so neat…>> I have set up a 7-inch deep DSB in my refugium tank. It is 23-inches x 16-inches in surface area, with the other half of the refugium live rock. <<This is a start, but you need much more here for this large and likely well-stocked system>> Is this a big enough DSB for my system or should I have more? <<If you have the capacity, definitely go larger>> I do have another 50-gallon tank connected to the system, which I could also use if I have to. <<Indeed do this, and add another if you have the space for it. You could even use plastic trash cans/storage containers for this purpose. The more the better in my opinion. As an example… I have a somewhat smaller system with a 375-gallon display. I have 1,000 lbs of sugar-fine Aragonite in the display and another 300 lbs of this material in a 55-gallon in-line dedicated vegetable refugium. I’m a firm believer in the DSB methodology>> My clown trigger is getting some white spot although my other fish are fine, probably stress from the nitrates. <<Possibly, yes>> How long does a DSB take to have any effect? <<A DSB should start providing “some” benefit fairly quickly (say about a week), but will take a bit of time (weeks to months) to realize its full potential (can be helped along by obtaining/adding a few cups of substrate from fellow hobbyists/your LFS). Though with the small DSB (in relation to tank size) you have now, you may not notice much improvement other than a possible slowing/stabilization of Nitrates…if that>> I have ordered another skimmer (Bubble King) so that will help as well. <<Beautiful skimmers…but, is your current skimmer not doing its job?…or maybe simply not “big” enough?>> I'm doing 105-gallon water changes once a week as that is about as fast as I can make my water. <<Unless this system is “very much” overstocked I would think this to be sufficient…the answer to your Nitrate issues is likely to be found elsewhere>> I have recently started using Ozone, can this cause Nitrates? <<Not that I am aware… Randy Holmes-Farley has written some excellent pieces about Ozone usage (and so much more) in the hobby; do have a look on Reef Central at his archived articles in the Reef Chemistry forum>> Have to ask. <<Understood>> One more thing, should I also get an Aqua Medic nr5000 nitrate reducer to help things along? <<This could prove beneficial. But these Nitrate reduction units seem too “fiddly” to me…would much rather put my stock in a large DSB>> All the big systems around here are using them but they do cost, an additional mV control and probe is needed. <<Yes, pricey bits of gear>> I will do anything for my fish so if you recommend them then I will have to part with the cash. <<Mmm, perhaps as a “last-ditch” effort… Add as large a DSB (even multiple containers re) as you can and see how things proceed…I would even consider putting a macroalgae (Chaetomorpha gets my vote for its “user-friendliness”) in the vessels over the DSB for some additional organics removal…with all lighted on a reverse-daylight schedule. I would also add Poly-Filter to your filter flow-path or in a large canister filter to pull down those Nitrates>> Oh well, I enjoy it so much. <<Indeed>> Thanks for the help again. <<Quite welcome…hope you find it useful>> When I see people in shops struggling for information, I just pass them a bit of paper with your website on it, boy do they thank me when they see me next. <<Ahh!…a strong endorsement indeed, and is redeeming to know>> Kind Regards, James <<James, I would be most interested to hear how you proceed/things progress…please do send me an update if you find the time. Eric Russell>>

Refugium and Pond question
Dear Bob,
<<I'm not Bob, but I play one on TV... JasonC here.>>
I am working on the addition of a refugium to my 300 gallon (96x30x24) reef tank. I have obtained a 250 gallon container and plan to locate it and all my other hardware in an adjoining "fish room". I have researched your website and read your book (both excellent!) and have a couple of questions:
1. Is it ok to have the new "refugium" act as my only sump as well? <<Sure.>> If yes, do I need a separate area for the water to crash into from the tank overflow? <<In a container that large, probably not... but it wouldn't hurt, it would just need engineering and construction in advance.>>
2. My tank is currently turning over at about 8 times per hour, and I am planning on increasing the flow as part of the new plumbing (larger pump).
Will a flow of about 10-12 times per hour be too much for the refugium to function properly (nitrate removal, oxygenation, transfer of pods and other critters to feed main display)? <<In this case, you may want to baffle the water coming into the sump/refugium just so things don't get completely swept away.>>
My other question is regarding ponds. I live in southern California (near the foothills in San Bernardino County). My wife has always wanted to have a saltwater outdoor pond. <<I would think this is do-able, but not without many issues - right off the top of my head would be constant top-off to deal with evaporation.>> Is these do-able with local animals (maybe leopard sharks, or rock wrasse, etc) or is it possible to do something with tropical livestock. <<Not with local livestock unless you also invest in a LARGE chiller... tropicals would be easier, but you'd still need a pretty large heater to make sure the temperature didn't drop too low on that one day a year when it gets chilly.>> Any insight you have on either subject would be appreciated. <<I say do as much research as you can... this isn't impossible, but will probably test the limits of your financing.>>
Thanks,
Bob McCook
<<Cheers, J -- >>

Re: Big Tank..... Big Filter
Thanks for all your help in the past. I'm coming much closer to finalizing my plans for the 300 gal. I'll be receiving in a couple of weeks, and without your assistance I don't believe I'd have designed a very effective system!
<That's why we're here! Do keep the questions coming!>
The tank will be constructed of glass (96"x24"x30")with two narrow supports at each end (5" each) and two wider supports across the middle area of the tank (10" each). The total width of all supports is 30" leaving 66" of open access at the top. Three overflow boxes are being constructed on the outside back of the tank. I have noted on this site that it would be ideal to skim as wide a surface area as possible to capture the maximum organic waste for a given volume of water. So, each box is 22" long (utilizing the entire available 66" width of open surface area) and will feature two 2" overflows (Durso standpipes in the box). Thus if all were utilized (I may not run full flow in this neotropical cichlid habitat, but I may want to "go" reef in the future) I will have six total 2" pipes providing flow to the sump/filter.
<Good idea to overbuild for the future.>
The return flow would be distributed through eight bulkheads inserted into the glass support braces in the top of the tank. Back siphoning would thus be no problem, and I could fix nozzles to the bulkheads to better direct flow if necessary.
<Do realize that the nozzles will siphon until they reach and pull in air. Also be aware of the stress the bulkheads, pipe/hose etc. will put on your braces, in the horizontal plane, the weakest feature of glass. You may want to consider a manifold *above* the top altogether, eliminating this stress.>
My questions are:
1. What would you suppose the flow would be per 2" pipe if I drained them all into a 6" horizontal pipe tilted a bit to drain into a sump? The 2" pipes would each have on elbow (45 or 90 degrees) leading to the 6" pipe.
<The passive flow rate for 2" pipe? They can probably reasonably handle approximately 1500+ gph or so each, depends on design. To get a real number shop overflow boxes with 2" pipes, they will be rated at GPH. The WetWebMedia.com sponsors will carry these.>
2. Would I be better served to utilize a wet/dry filter or another form of filtration. I am planning, at the moment, on a 75 gal. sump. The drain would first flow into a micron bag, then over the bio chamber (bioballs in use in this freshwater tank), then a couple of baffles with a chemical chamber, returned via two Iwaki pumps (trying to get enough flow and be able to service one at a time without disturbing the bio-media). I have received two different sorts of advice in the past, one favored wet/dry while the other supported a pond/pool type of filtration (I believe Aquanetics was noted; if so please specify).
<This choice will need to be made for your FW inhabitants, but perhaps with an eye to the future again. Either of these options would be suitable depending on capacity. They both work essentially the same way.  For cichlids I would go with a larger system. Neither of these would be necessary for a reef tank in the future. Deep sand beds, live rock, carbon filtration and protein skimming is the way to go there.>
3. Would the micron bag work best submerged (except for the top in or so) or hung above the bio chamber (the stand is 39" high and should accommodate either approach).
<No matter. Position for ease of maintenance.>
4. Any benefit to skimming in freshwater? Probably not, huh?
<Nope.>
5. U.V. filtration needed? After sump or in? Any recommendations?
<Not needed.>
6. Heating via submerged Jaegers in the sump or a fireplug model?
<I use Ebo's myself. A personal/esthetics choice.>
7. Return flow will need to have a couple of elbows (maybe three for each of the two return pumps) if I am to hard plumb the returns. Is there a distinct advantage to flexible tubing? I thought I saw it might be quieter, but I think I'd prefer hard plumbing the system with PVC for stability.
<Perhaps a piece of flex tube after the pump to isolate that vibration. I prefer hard plumbed pvc, oversized to reduce the friction of turns, ells, etc. Flexible tubing can overcome this, but do be aware of pipe size. For instance, a Mag 18 with a 3/4" outlet only produces this rate and pressure with a 1 1/2" pipe. The hint? Oversize plumbing substantially. Pumps are easier to size/replace!>
8. Is there any way to keep floating plants without them all flowing down the overflows?
<Mesh at the top of the overflows or tie them where you want them.>
9. I guess I'm most concerned with the filtration type issue.
<Don't be. They both work the same, one uses aerated bio-balls as a wet/dry and the bio-wheel pond system uses a wheel for wet/dry biocapacity.  Some of the pond systems would offer a sump of sorts and more filter capacity as they are designed for larger outdoor systems. Cost/size/capacity are the main considerations.>
Sorry about the length of the questions. Thanks in advance for all your help!
<No problem! Hope this helps!  Craig>

240 Gallons and 1 Million Possibilities!
Hello,
<Hi there! Scott F. with you today>
I purchased from a friend a 240 gallon show tank; 4' tall and wide and 2'deep.
<Sounds sweet!>
The acrylic tank was a steal at $50 and never had water in it, no scratches dings or dents, just a 10 foot long python that he kept as a pet. I was really excited about the tank and started putting together all of the parts that I felt were needed. I bought an Eheim 2229 wet/dry canister because I wanted a sealed wet/dry unit and figured it would double as one of my canisters. I bought the Prizm Pro protein skimmer, Helix 18 watt UV light, 2 aqua clear 802 power heads, Sea Storm mud unit (was free from another friend), Fluval 404 canister filter, Ice Cap ballast, 2- 40 watt VHO actinics and 2 40 watt VHO daylight bulbs. I also plan on buying or making a sump after I get done making the custom stand out of 6x6's and other BIG chunks of wood.
<A thought here...You seem to be dependant upon a lot of mechanical filtration systems. You could really simplify things (and possibly save some $$) by going with a simple sump set up, and a more capable protein skimmer, like a Euro Reef or Aqua C.>
I plan on doing a sort of hybrid reef setup because I do like some non reef tolerant fish. I also plan on using live sand/crushed coral and live rock as a supplement to my mechanical filtering capability. I talked to quite a few of the local shops and most are in concurrence that my setup should work well.
<It can, but you will need to regularly clean and change the filter media to avoid them becoming a "detritus/nutrient trap". Again- you may want to explore the flexibility and simplicity that a sump affords for a large system>
I ran into another fish store owner one day and was discussing this setup and he advised me that all I need is a filter sock, sump and a protein skimmer and two 10k metal halides. He talked about how he's breeding some reef life under this setup and that my equipment will not handle the tank for more than 3 months.
<I don't know about the "3 month" estimate- but I do concur that you should do some research into this suggestion. Sumps work well, even in FOWLR setups...>
I am concerned now about the path I have taken and that all of this equipment will go on EBay for pennies on the dollar.
<Well, you can still use some of the components...For example, the canister filter can be used to help periodically "polish" the water with carbon, or you could run it continuously with Poly Filter, changing out/cleaning the pre filter and Poly Filter as needed>
What is your opinion of my current and future path. Thanks in advance, Jeremy Pratt
<Well, Jeremy, I really do think that you can do eat easier and better (especially for the long term) with a well-thought out sump. You'll be much happier in the long run, IMO. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

240 Gallons of Doubt?
Hello, I purchased from a friend, a 240 gallon show tank; 4' tall and wide and 2' deep. The acrylic tank was a steal at $50 and never had water in it, no scratches dings or dents, just a 10 foot long python that he kept as a pet. I was really excited about the tank and started putting together all of the parts that I felt were needed. I bought an Eheim 2229 wet/dry canister because I wanted a sealed wet/dry unit and figured it would double as one of my canisters. I bought the Prizm Pro protein skimmer, Helix 18 watt UV light, 2 aqua clear 802 power heads, Sea Storm mud
unit (was free from another friend), Fluval 404 canister filter, Ice Cap ballast, 2 110 watt VHO actinics and 2 110 watt VHO daylight bulbs. I also plan on buying or making a sump after I get done making the custom stand out of 6x6's and other BIG chunks of wood. I plan on doing a sort of hybrid reef setup because I do like some non reef tolerant fish. I also plan on using live sand/crushed coral and live rock as a supplement to my mechanical filtering capability.
<You mean biological filtration, not mechanical. I suggest live aragonite sand over crushed coral to avoid trapping particulates/waste, contribute to primary denitrification.>
I talked to quite a few of the local shops and most are in concurrence that my setup should work well. I ran into another fish store owner one day and was discussing this setup and he advised me that all I need is a filter sock, sump and a protein skimmer and two 10k metal halides. He talked about how he's breeding some reef life under this setup and that my equipment will not handle the tank for more than 3 months. I am concerned now about the path I have taken and that all of this equipment
will go on EBay for pennies on the dollar. What is your opinion of my current and future path? Thanks in advance, Jeremy Pratt
<Well Jeremy, I've heard of these hybrid ideas before and I don't know how well you can expect that to turn out, depending on your fish wish list. I would keep it simple and straightforward to begin with. Your lighting will be insufficient for reef life in a 4' deep vessel, depending on your coral/invertebrate wish list.
You will make good use of those VHO's though, so not to worry, although after you use those up (in about 8mos to a year) switch them to 03 actinics all around to supplement the metal halides you will need to penetrate 4 feet of water. Something in the order of two 250-400 watt fixtures will suffice. With 10K you may want to just run the VHO actinics for a dawn/dusk/fluorescing effect. The filters can be used for carbon, so not a total loss, but forget all the bio-capacity of these and change them every two weeks (minimum) better small amounts weekly to avoid nitrate production. For the best presentation of this concept please read the articles on Live Rock and Deep Sand Beds on WetWebMedia.com in the Marine section. The only other upgrade I would look at is the skimmer. Before you go too far or use it, return it and look at a Euro Reef or Aqua-C for your sump for improved nutrient export. The main issue is your lighting.  Fine for 18" or less.  No need for the UV unit, return for more circulation, shoot for 10-20 times tank volume turnover.  Don't forget to factor in return pump from sump, overflows, etc. Best to draw up and solidify a good plan before spending any more hard earned $$$!  Look for more in the Marine Set-ups pages and faq's, more there than can be posted. I hope this helps you out! Craig>   

Wet/dries for 300g+ commercial installation 1/24/04
I work in the aquarium svc business, at this point mostly with 4' & 6' glass fish-only aquariums using wet/dries, and decorated with coral skeletons/shells  & artificial decorations.  We generally make our own wet/dries from 20 & 29  gallon aquariums using  PVC, eggcrate & bio-balls.  We have had good success using one Mag 5 or similar pump per standard overflow (All-Glass "Reef Ready" tanks) and with a sump capacity that is about 20% of the size of the tank (so that  evaporation doesn't become much of an issue).
<All sounds quite appropriate.>
We're preparing to handle sales and maintenance of 300-600 gallon acrylic  systems, and I'd like your input on a couple of things:
a) Should we still stick with 20% size wet/dries? It appears that our competition is using smaller ones (re: less expensive), but we haven't maintained any  of the systems they installed so we're not sure how well this works.
<I would consider 20% a minimum.  My greatest concern would be that the sump can handle the volume of water that will flow into it if a pump stops.  As a general rule, I suggest the largest sump that is practical.>
b) Can you recommend a source of inexpensive rigid-sided rectangular tanks (made from plastic?) that we might use instead of glass aquariums to construct the wet/dries?  If we stay with our current wet/dry design and just enlarge it,  in most installations we will probably be looking to make wet/dries with  dimensions similar to 75 & 125 gallon aquariums.  (Anticipating that in some installations the wet/dries will still need to fit under the tank in a stand.)
<Several types of water holding vessels come to mind, including fiberglass, acrylic aquariums, polyethylene tanks (often used in the back of trucks).  An internet search using key words like "water tank" combined with poly, polyethylene, fiberglass, etc., should yield a good starting point of hits.>
c) Any input you can provide concerning the various acrylic tank makers would be helpful.
<I can't really be of much help here in terms of specifics.  The "big boys" of the industry (Tenecor, Sea-Clear, etc.) haven't gotten there by chance.  Just stick with well known companies.  FWIW, your acrylic tank supplier is a great place to check with for sumps.  Adam>

Natural Filtration Methods For A BIG Tank!
Hi Scott, a little resume of our previous e-mails:
I'm trying to set up a 350 gallon tank FOWLR with a 100 gls sump, in my new apartment, in which there will be 3 large clown trigger (9, 8 and 11 inches) <<Pardon a side note here... combining large Clown Triggers is not a good idea... very likely they will fight... to extreme damage. Even in a tank three times this size. RMF>> and 1 large Arabian picasso(6 inches) and 1 Guinea fowl puffer (10 inches) - I have them now in my actual tank - therefore with very high bioload . You told me that LR and DSB are OK for my tank filtration.
<Okay>
2 questions for you:
1. Many experienced people told me that the container used to run a separate DSB would have to be nearly 2/3rds (about a 240gal) as large as the main system to be useful ; this size is too large for space that I have in my living room; what about it, is it true or not?
<I'm not entirely disagreeing with this thought; however, I believe that your system can realize the benefits of DSB methodology without such a large remote sand bed. I think it's entirely acceptable to maintain a DSB in the sump. I have set up such systems before, and have several friends that have kept them for years without problems.  Remember, the DSB is just one of several biological "filtration" adjuncts that you will utilize in your system. The live rock will perform a similar role, and aggressive protein skimming will help, too. In a tank with heavy feeders and a large metabolic load, you will have to be diligent about regular maintenance, and utilize chemical filtration media (ie; activated carbon/PolyFilter) as well.>
2. I'd like to use (Berlin system) ONLY Live rocks with Caulerpa in my sump lighted 24/7.
<I'd go for a "reverse daylight" cycle, myself>
I think to put in the new 350 gallons tank + 100 gls sump 700 pound of live rocks - 110pounds LR rubble in the sump and remaining LR in the main tank.
<Sounds fine to me...>
Besides, I'll use a huge skimmer, Aquamedic 5000 twin (greater Aquamedic skimmer).
<Excellent>
I wouldn't want to use a wet dry filter, but I prefer a natural set up! Do you think this set up (ONLY Live rocks + Caulerpa) is able to handle that large bioload?
<With the aforementioned caveat on maintenance, it is entirely possible, in my experience. Any macroalgae should be harvested regularly, if you intend to use it as a "filter", as you are removing nutrients from the system completely when you harvest. As with any system, use common sense when stocking and feeding.>
Thank you for your advice. Best regards
Lorenzo
<Well, Lorenzo, I think that you are on the right track. Give your system time to cycle and mature, and I'm sure that you'll enjoy it for many years! Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

How Much Sand and Filtration for a 1300 Litre Tank?
Hi Guys,
<< and gals, although not here right now >>
I'll be as quick as I can.  I do really have to ask these questions as you are the only people I will listen to.  The LFS are no help.  My 1300 litre main tank and 500 litre sump have just been delivered.
<< Excellent >>
1) I have read all the DSB FAQs but need a little clarification. I have bought some aragonite 1mm - 2mm size as I couldn't get sugar fine size (I'm in South Africa). << I don't like sugar size, so I think you got what you want. >> My aim would be for natural nitrate reduction.  Do I add a 5-6 inch deep sand bed to the main tank or  to the sump and how deep in the sump if so?  << I like about 4 inches in the main tank, and in the sump. >> A DSB in the sump only may be sufficient as I only have 3
Tangs, Niger trigger, Coris wrasse and a blue ringed angel plus LR and no corals.  << Actually the more corals you have, the less sand you need, as the corals are helping to filter the water. >> They are all around 4-5 inches at the moment.  I don't plan on adding anymore fish. In my 300 litre tank which is there current home my nitrate ranges from 0 to 10.
2) Is it better to add 2 x Turboflotor 1000 or 1 x Turboflotor 5000 shortly? AquaMedic is all that's available here? << Sorry, I'm not familiar with them.  Basically the more filtration and the more water motion the better. >>
3) If I put a glass cover on top of the tank to stop dust, evaporation etc. would it not stop oxygen getting in and gas exchange?
<< Yes, and no.  A glass cover isn't bad, unless it is like a tight seal and doesn't allow gas exchange.  A better idea is a glass shield right under the bulbs, but not all the way across the tank. >>
4) I have read sump FAQs as well, but do I add bioballs and those round ceramic things to begin with, or just more LR? << I would stay away from bioballs, and just go with more live rock. >>
Thanks so much.  I've just been reading the "Goodbye to Powerheads" article so I'm away to build a water return manifold.  My fish are going to love me for this.  I don't know how people can swap their fish around, I have gotten so attached to mine. << Me too, good luck. >>
Kind Regards,
James.
<<  Blundell  >>

Re: 375g setup
Hi Anthony,
<Out till 12/12>
Thanks for the tip - I will follow up with him. When you commented "you don't follow", I was asking if switching the 2 DSB's would have any effect or make a difference (i.e. Thalas