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Target mandarin, hlth.   6/10/08
Hi,
<Hello>
I have had a target mandarin for about 8 months now. Recently it seemed to have become less active. It spent about a third of the day lying in the sandbed, and it seemed to have trouble breathing.
<Was this fish eating?>
This continued for almost a week until last night I noticed it had lost color in its head, it was now white with light orange spots from the gills up. His head was also kind of shriveled up, like it was slowly shrinking or something. He died last night, and when I found him this morning his body was fully in tact except for his head, which looked like it had deteriorated. What was wrong with my mandarin? Was there something I could have done for him?
<Without knowing tank size, water parameters and tankmates it is difficult to say why this fish died, however about 8 months to a year is about how long it often takes for these fish to succumb to starvation is captivity so that would be my first guess.>
<Chris>
 

Mandarin QT with clowns? 4/15/08 Hi guys, <Carolyn> I've currently got two black/white ocellaris clowns (young, about 1.5 inches long) and a green mandarin reserved at my LFS. All the fish look very healthy, have been in the shop for several weeks showing no signs of ill health, and all three have grown well (notably, the mandarin eats prepared foods happily, frozen rotifers and mysis shrimp mainly). All three animals are going into QT as soon as I get them home, the QT is set up with some ocean rock to keep pH stable and some cured live rock from my main tank. As the mandarin is eating prepared foods well at the LFS and is nicely plump and inquisitive I'm not too concerned about QT her, but am not sure if I can put all three in the QT together, or if the clowns will be a problem to the mandarin? <Should be okay... Mandarins/Callionymoids are "distasteful"... their slime protects them from much predation/bothering> Would it be better to QT the mandarin for two-three weeks alone, then add her to the main tank, before QT'ing the clowns, or will it be ok to add the three together? <I think all will be fine together... If not, I would summarily move/place the Mandarin... this family of fishes rarely has/transmits pathogenic disease... much more often has troubles with starvation in transit, waiting> Want to get this right first time, as I have no intention of getting a fish I can't keep in the best condition possible, its not enough that they just survive!! After researching them and preparing for a mandarin for a LONG time (many many months) I really want to give them the best chance possible. Any help you can give gratefully received as usual!! Many thanks, Carolyn <Cheers, Bob Fenner> Re: mandarin QT with clowns? 04/22/08 Dear Bob and fellow crew members, <Carolyn> I'm not worried about this being posted on the site, but just wanted to thank you for your advice and rapid response (esp. given as I'm in damp and cold England ;)).. we now have the mandarin in QT, following your advice on here we made sure we watched her feeding in the LFS (frozen mysis and freshly hatched brine shrimp). <Good> She's eating some live brine shrimp and some frozen foods in the QT, but she's not anywhere near as plump as she should be, so I'm planning on getting her into the display tank this evening (she's been in QT for 3-4 days, not really long enough but feeling that she needs to be in with a ready source of natural food).. <We are in agreement> Also wanted to thank you for your wonderful advice on my mystery clown fish deaths a month or so back - it was indeed the branching hammer coral, which has since been swapped at the LFS for a stunning sulphur toadstool, so all's well again in the reef! <Ahh!> Again, many thanks - your site has become a second passion of mine - after the reef of course ;). Carolyn <I do hope you join us in time. Cheers! Bob Fenner> Re: mandarin QT with clowns? 5-1-08 Dear Bob and co ;) <Carolyn> After all your helpful advice I thought you might appreciate a bit of an update on the mandarins progress - the little guy is doing fantastically well, he's eating defrosted lobster eggs in addition to his pods and is noticeably putting weight on, although he's still got a fair way to go to get back to a comfortably plump size! <Ah, good> Once again, thank you all so much, Carolyn <Thank you for this update. BobF>

Mandarin Swim Bladder Issue  3/30/08 A friend said he had a green Mandarin fish that would not eat. <<Unfortunately, this is typical.>> I told him I had a good place for him, and would try to train him to eat fortified brine shrimp. <<Not my first choice, though it’s better then him not eating at all.>> Went to get the fish, and it is floating on the surface of the water! He can fight his way to the bottom, but as soon as he stops swimming he floats strait up to the surface again! Otherwise, he looks generally healthy After searching your web site, I have learned some about swim bladder disease and it's causes. He was in good water, so his most likely cause would seem to be poor diet, or lack of food in this case. And I have learned that even if he survives, his swim bladder will probably never be the same. As for possible treatments. Medicated food seems to be out of the question, unless he starts eating, and I will try. So a hospital tank, with good, frequently changed water, and a general antibiotic, seem to be the only coarse of action. Am I on the right track? Have I missed anything? Anyone ever squeeze a bubble out of a fish's bladder without killing it? And can you recommend a general antibiotic, if that is the path I should take. << You seem to be on the right track, you’ve at least read some which is more than I can say for a lot of the emails we receive. As far as the antibiotic should you choose to use one…the only general recommendation I have is to not use one with any metal compounds or formalin based products, and of course any treatment should be done in a quarantine tank. Check out this article to it may be of use; http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav3i3/swim_bladders/swim_bladders.htm .>> Thanks Rich <<Welcome, Adam J.>> Re: swim bladder disease... Mela-non-fix   4/16/08 I am writing with thanks for your help with my Green Mandarin (Synchiropus splendidus). He was placed in a ten gallon quarantine tank, stuffed with as much mature live rock as I could put in it. The tank was treated with Melafix, a general fish antibiotic. <Error... this leaf extract is not an antibiotic... not really a "medicine" at all... Is more trouble than it's worth> Each day, I changed two and a half gallons of water and added another dose of Melafix. During the daylight hours, the Mandarin would wedge himself into or under ledges of the rock to stay submerged. After dark, he would allow himself to float up and rest for the night on the surface. This went on for seven days. After seven days I stopped the antibiotic treatments, <Thank goodness> and the daily water changes, thinking his chances were slim to none. On the tenth day, I noticed that he was no longer spending the night on the surface, though his swimming was still labored. After twelve days, his swimming was near normal. And after fourteen days he was cured of his swim bladder problems! Swimming and hunting the rock normally as Mandarins do. He was then moved to a sixty gallon refugium, loaded with rock, where a small female Mandarin lived alone. She has lived alone in there for a year, and took to him instantly. She has now taught him how to eat live brine shrimp fortified with Selcon. And he appears to be on the road to full recovery! I thank you so much for your time and help, and present this success story to you. Richard <Am very glad you ceased the API exposure. This material is more toxic than helpful. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Mandarin dragonet Fin bleached... comp. f'    2/6/08 Hello, I have a problem with my Mandarin. On his front fins he is beginning to get a bleached out look. <I see this> He still seems to move around the aquarium and do his thing but his fins look horrible. It is as if they are rotting, but all of my searches that do with mandarins and fin rot turn up nothing similar to what my pictures portray. Do you know what this is and how to treat it? <Have seen... likely a decolorizing trend due to stress, nutritional deficiency...> I have hat him for one month now. I have had my aquarium set up for four months. I do not think it is out of food because I can still see copods jumping on the rocks. <These copepods may not "have nutritional value" here> It is a 90 gallon reef. With the Mandarin I have a yellow head pearly jaw fish, five blue green chromis, a yellow tang, two false percula clown fish and two cleaner shrimp. I also have a lot of snails and three hermit crabs (only three because those are the three I am not able to catch.... yet). For corals I have a frogspawn and an acropora. <Oh! The Euphyllia may have "stung" this fish...> I also have a bubble tip anemone. <Or this... may consume this Callionymid one night> Last week (1/25) I got the clowns and the anemone. That is when I noticed the problem with the fins. Sat (2/5) I did a 15 gallon water change. I have a SeaChem test and it reads 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite 0 nitrate. The salinity is 1.025. Temp is 79-80. Ph is between 8.2 and 8.3. I hope I have given you enough information to help me with this. Attached are a few pictures to help illustrate the problem. Thank you, David <The greater possibility is that this Dragonet was stung... will likely heal (or be consumed)... I would move either the two stinging celled animals or the Psychedelic "Goby"... Bob Fenner>

Injured Mandarin Dragonet – 1/28/08 Good day crew! I hope all is going well for you the New Year! I have been a regular reader of the site for many years and sometimes find myself needing to pick your collective brains. Bob has been a big help and inspiration over the years. <Ahh!> Anyway, on to the current problem. I currently have a ~450 total gallon marine system set up. It consists of a 210 display, 50 gal sump, 100 gal refugium with DSB and Chaetomorpha, and a 100 gal "settling" tank. It has been up and running for approximately 3 years and is very stable (Ammonia - 0, Nitrites - 0, Nitrates - 0, Salinity - 1.026, Alk - 10.2 dKH, Calcium - 425, and Mag - ~1300, temp 77.5 - 78* F). <Ok> I originally got into this hobby in the hopes of keeping Mandarin Dragonets and finally felt that my tank was large enough and stable enough to support one. I found a fat, bright eyed specimen (already eating mysis shrimp occasionally to boot!) and purchased him. I knew about the "spurs" on the gills and that nets should not be used for transfer from tank to tank and assumed the LFS knew too (they are really great!) but I got the "new girl" and she netted him while I was looking elsewhere. Well, he got caught in the net and she had to shake him out into the bag. I was a bit annoyed, but after a thorough inspection I didn't see anything amiss. <Good> On getting him home, I did notice a bit of a white spot on his gill but hoped it would heal. That was 2 weeks ago and he has been swimming all over the tank and eating very well. <Ditto> However, today I noticed he didn't move from the sandbed in one corner all day. His injury has gotten much worse (please see attached picture). Is there anything you can recommend for treatment? <Mmm, no pic attached> I can put him in the hospital tank for treatment but am concerned about his not eating. Any input/suggestions you care to give will be greatly appreciated. <Mysids, live if you can... or appropriately sized Copepods... and a bit of appetite stimulant added to them, the tank water... Zoecon, Selco product> As always, it is a pleasure to peruse your wonderful site and interact with you one-on-one. Also, it looks like the site reorg is moving along quite nicely. KUDOS! Picture: [IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/navajo001/mandyinjury.jpg[/IMG] <Oh! There it is. A bad tear... but not anything I would do re manual manipulation or treatment of the water per se...> Just in case the pic is too big to come through, here is a link: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/navajo001/mandyinjury.jpg Thank you, Tom (The Tool Man) <Keep the faith Tom. Only time can/will tell here. Bob Fenner>

Dragonet Mandarin, Mandarin Care 12/19/07 Hi, <Hello> I seem to have problems keeping my mandarins alive. The dragonet is acting the same way my spotted mandarin did. He just lies in the bottom of the tank without moving. He is breathing but seems to have problems moving. He shows no sign of damage. We have a 110 gallon tank, with a yellow tank, fox face, 2 clowns, yellow goby, blue damsel. star fish, shrimp, hermit, and snails. All are doing fine. The water is perfectly balanced, calcium and all is good. <Numbers here, "perfectly balanced" means nothing to me.> we do a 10 gallon change of water every week. Do I have to buy special food for the mandarin? <Not realistic to buy what it needs to eat, needs lots of Live Rock to produce the pods that it eats.> Everyone seems to think so. <They are very difficult to feed.> We have had the mandarin for 2 weeks now and it is still quite plump. Thank you for your help Isabel <Need more information, how much live rock do you have, how long has the tank been established, water parameters. Many possibilities here.> <Chris> Re: Dragonet Mandarin, Mandarin Care 12/20/07 Chris, <Hello> 1. The ph, alk are in the norm according to the color on the paper. (I cant give you numbers). <Ditch the dipstick style tests, they are so inaccurate they are almost worthless, get some dry reactant type tests, they are much better.> I have no nitrates. We did have phosphate but it is now under control. We took the water to a specialized store, and he checked for copper (none) we make our own water using the osmosis thing., calcium (good ). <Ok> 2. I went and bought some baby shrimp which I gave to him right where he was laying, I did it twice so far. <Did he eat this?> 3. I have 95lbs of live rock in my 110 gal tank. We had a 45 gal; for over one year. About 4 months ago we replaced it with the 110. We did keep the same water and live rock from the 45 gal. Thanks, Isa <How long did the first mandarin last? Did you buy them in the same place? Have you seen any of your other fish being aggressive towards it?> <Chris> Re: Dragonet Mandarin, Mandarin Care 12/24/07 Chris, <Hello> 1. They are not dip sticks, I put water in a little cavity and then I check the color on the identification card that comes with it, <Ah, ok but if they do not give you number values I would switch to a different test.> 2. The little one didn't seem to eat, he just laid there...but he did change places at one point, that actually made me happy. <Not a good sign.> 3. I bought him at a store for the first time. And the other guys in the tank did not attack him. Unless they do it at night when the lights are out. The little one died, so I told my husband that we better wait for 6 months before getting another one, they are fragile. Thanks and if u have any suggestions, pls let me know for future reference Isabel <Best bet is to give the tank some time to mature, and set up a refugium to culture amphipods and copepods which are their natural food.> <Chris>

Fallow tank, ich, and a hungry Mandarin   9/1/07
Hello all,
First off, let me say thank you for all that you do. I would've left the hobby long ago very frustrated were it not for you all and your efforts.
<I might have too. :) >
Let me quickly get to my question. My main tank came down with ich and following your advice I pulled all fish from the display and am now keeping them in QT. One of the fish in the main display was a Mandarin Dragonet.
My main tank is chock full of pods for him to eat, but I'm afraid I can't say the same for his quarantine tank. I've been hatching brine shrimp for him in the meantime, but I've read that they're not very nutritious. I also started some stand alone pod cultures but it'll be a while before they really get going and that is a viable food source for him.
Given how disease resistant the Mandarin can be, can he safely live in the main tank during the fallow period? By putting him back in am I basically negating all the time that I have had the tank empty? Basically, will he act as a vector to keep the parasite population alive, such that after 6 weeks when I repatriate the other fish they are still likely to get infected all over again. Thanks for your help!
<Just to be safe, you should probably keep the mandarin in the quarantine tank. Baby brine may not be completely nutritious, but if he's eating them, they should keep him going until you can put them all back. Not that it should ever ever happen, but healthy fish can survive weeks without food (just like how healthy people can actually go over a month without food). Feeding the mandarin only baby brine is like feeding a person only cookies and beer for a few weeks. Granted, it's not healthy or ideal, but it shouldn't be too bad for short turn.>
-Fred
<Best,
Sara M.>

Mandarin health    1/14/07
<Hey Michele, JustinN with you today.>
We recently obtained a mandarin from our LFS.  
<Ok>
We have a well established 100 gallon tank reef tank with 100 pounds of live rock and a 15 gallon fuge.  The tank has assorted LPS corals, invertebrates, and a pair of sebae clowns and a yellow tang.  We read everything on your site about mandarins for several months and felt we were finally ready to attempt one.  
<Yes, you sound like you have properly planned here.>
We watched the mandarin at the fish store for several days and thought she looked healthy so we brought her home.  When we got her home, she was much skinnier than we perceived she was in the store tank.
She has a very prominent spine and lateral line.  The really stupid thing we did, though, was not notice that her tail was missing!  She has this little stub where the tail should be.  We assumed it was trauma from being in the store tank with more aggressive fish (triggers, wrasses, etc.)  Now, two weeks later, her tail is actually getting worse.  It keeps eroding away and has almost reached the point of her body.
<Is a source of concern... I assume from your descriptions, that you skipped out on a quarantine period?>
I'm now worried that perhaps it is an infection instead of or secondary to the trauma.  
<I would tend to agree here.>
We skipped quarantine (shame on us) because of her need for pods to survive and we thought her slime coat made her a fairly resistant fish.  
<Mmm, a shortened quarantine would have been acceptable, but you could have placed established rock from your display system in the QT system to provide food temporarily, occasionally changing out this rock with others.>
Now, I'm concerned about the welfare of our other fish.  
<Understandably so>
The mandarin is very active and hunts constantly.  She appears to eat, though I have trouble telling if she actually consumes the pods.  
<These are good signs.>
My question is how concerned should we be about the welfare of our other fish with a compromised new fish in the tank?  Should we keep trying with her or is she a lost cause with the profound muscle atrophy and the tail erosion?  
<Tail erosion, maybe, but if the mandarin is still actively hunting and eating, muscle atrophy may not be much of an issue.>
We don't want to give up on her, but I don't' want her to infect the clowns or tang either.  Thanks!
Michele
<This is completely understandable, Michele. At this point, being that I'm not a major expert in pathogenic diseases and problems with marine fishes, all that I can postulate is that some sort of existing water condition is allowing the tail to erode away further. Typically in cases of fin deterioration, water quality is at play. My suggestion is to test your water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, alkalinity, calcium) and try to identify an imbalance there, as well as performing regular water changes to the tune of 25%. My opinion is that if the mandarin is still actively hunting and feeding (that you can see) there is a chance for recovery. However, do realize that if the tail erosion is past the caudal, it will likely not regrow. Hope this helps you! -JustinN>

Re: Mandarin health    1/14/07
Thank you for the info and reply!  
<Anytime, Michele. Is what I'm here for>
Sorry I didn't include water parameters on the last post.  
<Is ok, does help us out.>
Ammonia/nitrite/nitrate: 0, SG:  1.025, temperature:  80, pH:  8.1 (too low maybe??  This is a daytime reading so I'm assuming it's dropping lower at night)
<pH is fine here, though you are likely right with your assumption that it drops at night.>
, Ca: 500 (too high?  We just put the calcium reactor in over the holidays).  
<Mmm, yes. Should be more in the 320-420 range. I wonder where your alkalinity is? This seems like you may be hovering awful close to a precipitous event.. You and your husband should have a read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/calcalkmar.htm and http://www.wetwebmedia.com/calcreactors.htm >
Husband says salinity and phosphates are "normal" but I don't have numbers.  We ("we" being my husband =) )
<Hehe, tank maintenance is much the same around my home, I understand completely.>
do 5 to 10% water changes every 5 to 7 days.
<Good>
Anyway....last night the mandarin stopped her apparent hunting.  She just sat in one spot on the sand and did not move even when we fished her out.  Her tail had eroded even more.  
<I'm very sorry to hear this. I had hoped for the best, but somewhat expected the worst.>
We humanely (we hope) euthanized her.  
<After reading further in your letter and noting your veterinary background, I'm sure you did.>
I'm now torn between purchasing another mandarin and the guilt that I'm contributing to the collection of a fish that is so often not cared for properly.  (I'm a veterinarian...I tend to philosophize/stress about animals and our effect on them!)  
<I absolutely understand your sentiment here.>
So, two questions.....how worried should I be about my other fish (tank and clowns) if she had an infectious process going on with the tail?
<I would not be too concerned, likely the infectious process here was secondary to the rough transit/LFS experiences.>
Second, I've heard differing opinions on quarantine for a mandarin ranging from not needed to the usual 4 to 6 weeks.  What is your
thought?  Thanks!  
<I feel a minimal quarantine is necessary for even the most sensitive of fish. I would agree with a shortened quarantine in the case of a mandarin, likely in the range of a week or 2, while keeping an eye on body mass of course. This would be more to harden the specimen from the rigors of shipping than as a preventative measure, and to potentially identify any threatening problems, such as you have encountered here. As you stated, there is very little concern of pathogens from mandarin dragonets due to their excessive slime coat. Two weeks would likely be completely sufficient, and if the body mass appeared to wither, this could always be expedited.>
Enjoy the rest of the weekend!
Michele
<You enjoy the rest of yours as well, Michele! Do feel free to write back if you have any further questions! -JustinN>

Mandarin <fdg., hlth> Question  12/29/06
Thanks for such a great, informative, fascinating web site!!!  I hope I am not wasting your time with info that is already in the archives, but I have read through everything on mandarins and I'm worried about mine. <Lets hear it.> I have wanted a mandarin for quite awhile so we read and starting preparing.  We have a 100 gallon well established tank with 100 pounds plus of live rock and a fuge.  <Sounds like a good home.>  Inhabitants include 2 sebae clowns and a yellow tang, peppermint shrimp, invertebrates, and assorted corals.  Parameters are
ammonia/nitrate/nitrite: 0, pH:  8.1, temperature:  81, SG:  1.025.  The calcium reactor and test kit were ordered for Christmas! <Nice> We thought we were ready for the mandarin and purchased her (I think her based on fin size??) three days ago.  She looked ok in the store, but when we got her home we realized she is VERY skinny.  At the store she was eating brine (not sure if this means she is "trained" or just starving and desperate). <Either, hopefully the former.> She is very active in our tank and appears to be hunting the pods (constantly moving around the rock and pecks at the rock although I cannot see if she actually grabs a pod when she does this).  <Good sign.>  I know mandarins and especially skinny ones have a poor survival rate. <Unfortunately> My question is what is the best way to try and fatten her up?  Should I just leave her to the pods and fate or can I try and supplement with Mysis, bloodworms, etc. even though this is not the nutrition she needs for long term survival? <I would try a little frozen food, preferably the Mysis soaked in Selcon for a little extra boost.  If she takes it so much the better.> I feel like we have an ample pod population esp. with the fuge, but I am worried since I'm starting out with an already compromised specimen.   Thanks for your help!  MLF
<Sounds like you have planned ahead and are ready for this somewhat demanding fish.  Hard to say what its chances are based on your description of its current state, but it seems that your tank has the right conditions for its survival.  Good luck fattening this guy/gal up.>
<Chris>

New Mandarin in quarantine - how to keep sustained until move to main tank?   11/6/06
First of, definitely would like to thank you all for a fantastic resource, and especially to Bob Fenner for his awesome book, The Conscientious Marine Aquarist.  I've had my 90 gallon reef tank with a corner overflow and 20 gallon sump set up for just over a year.  The CMA was instrumental in helping me get going and continuing to maintain my tank.  I'm just about to order "Reef Invertebrates vol 1" as well.
<Thank you for your kind, encouraging words. Mean much>
I picked up a healthy looking mandarin last night from my LFS.  It is currently in quarantine in my 12 gallon AquaPod.   He's nibbling (I think) at some algae on the glass, but it could be pods.
<Yes... likely "aufwuchs"...>
The AquaPod nano has live sand, a couple of small chunks of live rock and was nearly completely filled with water from my main tank over the past 2 weeks as I've done water changes (approx 10 gallons through water changes, 2 gallons of "fresh" but aged salt water).   
I have a ball of Chaeto in the nano that was in my sump and some dragon's tongue macro algae as well.
My main tank has a ton of copepods in the sump, overflow and throughout my ~120-150 lbs of live rock.   I believe the Chaeto ball had a small colony of pods in it prior to moving it into the nano.
My main question is how to keep the mandarin alive/fed while in quarantine?  
<Mmm... actually, I'd like to make a plug/push for your expediting this quarantine... Callionymids rarely harbor parasites, problems that such isolation improves>
I'm hoping I can entice it to eat pellets or something other than live pods,
<Not likely>
but I also don't want to move it to my main tank too soon and risk my main tank with some kind of unknown LFS infestation.  I'm also thinking of adding some zooplankton/phytoplankton (dried and DTs) to the nano to help feed the pods.
<Mmm, keep your eye on the apparent thinness of this specimen...>
Additionally, as I do my next water change I'll take 5 gallons from my main display and add it to the nano.  Also, I was thinking of splitting the Chaeto ball in half, rinsing and adding one half to my main tank for a day or two and then swapping it out with the other one, rinse and repeat every 2-3 days.
<Good idea>
The Wet-web Media mandarin FAQs suggested that only 2 week quarantine period was needed for the mandarin.
<Yes... this or even less>
Any comments, suggestions or ideas?
Thanks again,
Steve
<I would be bold and move this animal to your main/display system if it appears to have a "low index of fitness". Bob Fenner>

 

Re: New Mandarin in quarantine - how to keep sustained until move to main tank?   5/8/06
Bob, honored to have your reply.
<... welcome!>
Unfortunately I wasn't able to put into action your recommendation to move the mandarin from quarantine to my display tank.  Sometime between 10pm last night and 6:30am this morning the mandarin disappeared without a trace.
<Yikes... must have "jumped out" somehow>
It is very strange as the nano/quarantine she was in was tightly enclosed, there wasn't much space to hide in - just a few pieces of PVC and some small golf-ball sized live rock - and there were really no other creatures that could have disposed of the body (just a small porcelain crab also in QT).  I tore the tank apart, including removing all the stuff from the chambers of the tank but there was nothing to be found.   
<... somewhere...>
Anyway I think I'm better prepared for the next attempt.  My quarantine/initial isolation checklist now includes:
1) Ensuring I have a wad of "sacrificial Chaeto" charged with a load of pods from my main tank
2) Ready access to live brine shrimp (low quality food is better than no food)
3) Adding a copepod starter if available:
http://www.reed-mariculture.com/copepod/index.asp or http://oceanpods.com
<Both good companies, people, with real products>
4) Ready access to blood worms - many folks reported that theirs would eat live blood worms
<Yes>
Alternatively to 2 & 3, am possibly thinking of having a supply of copepod culture ready.  Reference copepod culturing (about half-way down) http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/breeder2.htm or
http://www.reed-mariculture.com/copepod/
Thanks again.
Ps - Made my first batch of food from the basic recipe in the CMA this weekend.  My tank LOVES it - I can't believe I didn't make it sooner.
Regards,
Steve
<And what a bargain price-wise per unit unit! Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Mandarin Maladies...A Too Common Tale - 10/13/06
My mandarin stopped moving around today.  It has been hovering in one place and did not respond to food.
<<These fish often fare poorly in captivity in the long-term>>
It appears to be otherwise healthy.  Fat as always and good coloration, breathing seems regular, but all fins are erect at all times as if it were threatening or mating.
<<Mmm...>>
So I tried to feed it with a turkey baster (it supplements its diet of pods with frozen Mysis).  The fish did not respond to the turkey baster so I touched it with the tip of the baster and it responded.  I blew some water across his face and once again he responded.  I believe that he is blind and that this happened suddenly.
<<Possibly (and likely a nutritional issue), or maybe not blind but just so ill it will only respond to physical stimuli>>
Do you believe that I might train it to eat food placed near by?
<<Won't know till you try...but I have my doubts as to whether this fish will recover/survive from this point.  You say the Mysis is used to supplement the mandarin's "natural" diet but if this fish is not in a large system (100g+) with a deep sand bed, sufficient live rock, and an in-line refugium its long-term survivability was always in question...regardless of whether or not it accepted the frozen Mysis.  These fishes rarely ever thrive in captivity...usually best left in the ocean>>
He is in a tank with seahorses and a Yellow Watchman.  There is no real competition for food.  The fish has been with us for about 1 year and has always eaten well.
<<A common scenario...yet these fish still decline/die mysteriously in most cases>>
Thanks
<<Regards, EricR>>

Wrong shipment. Mandarin health, nutrition   7/18/06
Hey crew,
<Eric>
I just received a wrong shipment from an online supplier.  I just wanted to get some snails for my 200 gallon tank.  I can never seem to
find the quantity that I am looking for in the area.  Well the company sent me a whole bunch of fish instead.  (they are going to send my
original order now)  I think I can care for the fish except for the Mandarin Dragonet since he is in my QT I really don't have a food source for him.
<Very bad... I would consider moving, shortening the quarantine time for this fish... to move it to your main display system... for the food organisms likely there>
I was wondering if I can just go down to the ocean and scoop out some pods and zooplankton and put those in the tank for him to eat?
<Not really a good idea. Way too likely a chance of introducing undesirable organisms, pollution...>
Is that a very good idea?  I have ordered some food for him online, but I think the order is going to take a few days to get here.  I don't
think he is doing to well, and he wasn't very health to begin with.
<Mmm, are tough animals really... If not really "very skinny" can/will hold off till the food arrives>
Thanks for the help.  My reef tank is coming along great thanks to you guys.
Eric V
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/manddisfaqs.htm
and consider foreshortening QT for this animal. Bob Fenner>

Attn:  Bob  - Mandarin QT... Hey, I'm not going in with that Callionymid!   7/18/06
Hi,
  We have received great advice from you in the past!  You helped us through trying to save our female mandarin (but she was apparently too far gone to start with).  Our male Green Mandarin is now very, very fat and healthy in his 230 gallon kingdom.
   <Ah, good>
  We were given 2 females after a tank tear down that have now been in QT 10 days.  The QT has about 30 lbs of live rock seeded with copepods (a few months ago).  The little Green female seems well rounded.  The other female is a 3" spotted that they had not had very long.  Her belly is slightly convex - but seems to be getting flatter.  She is eating great (seems to nab a pod about every 5 seconds - although they are too small for me to see).  They get along great - not even a hint of a squabble!
   <Good>
  Our plan is to switch out the male for a short period to get the females used to the big tank and to hopefully prevent the male from being completely territorial.  That is, if we can catch him while he is asleep - otherwise we'll never get him out.
  A couple of questions:
  1)  Does switching them out temporarily seem like a good plan (I really hate to disturb the male, as he is so healthy and outgoing - but I fear he will not accept strangers in his territory otherwise)?
   <I would try just introducing both the females simultaneously "by cover of night">
  2)  How long would we need to keep him in "exile?"
   <A week or so if you were to try this>
  3)  Is it okay to shorten the females' QT period?  No signs at all of ich or disease so far (just the slightly sunken belly of the spotted).  If so, I'd love to go ahead and do this so that everyone will be in the big tank before our vacation, which is in a week.  However, we can leave them in QT if necessary.  We've been monitoring to ensure they are eating consistently and have 2 copepod cultures to supplement the rock if necessary while we are home, but that close monitoring would be impossible while we are gone.
   <I am a believer in not long-quarantining certain groups of animals... Including dragonets. I would foreshorten QT here if all appears as you state.>
  Thanks as usual for your advice and time!!!
  - Doug
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Mandarin quarantine question   7/11/06
Hola WWM amigos,
<Que tal my friend?>
As many other fellow reefers have already said, the WWM site and crew is a MUST resource for new and seasoned reef tank hobbyists. My question is about treating an ich outbreak and medicating fish, including a Mandarin, in a quarantine tank. I read numerous threads in WWM dealing with Mandarin FAQs, but would like help in how to deal with this situation. What is the preferred way to deal with an ich outbreak and medicate a Mandarin along with other fish in a quarantine tank while providing food for the Mandarin?
<A tough one... if the Mandarin and other fishes are in good shape otherwise, I'd try a slightly elevated temperature (to the mid 80's F.) along with a minimum physiological dose of chelated copper product (0.15-0.20 free Cupric ion)... testing at least daily...>
I have a 125 gallon AGA with 30 gallon sump, 10 gallon fuge, and GEO calcium reactor which I set-up in April 2006. I know, kinda quick. Water parameters are good (nitrates, SG, temp, KH, Ca, etc.) with lots of pod production. Included is approximately 125 lbs. LR, 3" LS substrate, and a Euro-Reef protein skimmer. I have 9 fish (Firefish, Tiger Goby, Bi-color Blenny, Royal Gramma, Six Line Wrasse, Percula Clown pair, Striped Blenny, Mandarin) along with a cleaner shrimp, pistol shrimp, sea cucumber, and a few hermits and snails. Other inverts include mostly LPS corals, my favorites.
I experienced an outbreak of ich and did manage to get all of the fish out of the tank into a newly set-up 20 gallon quarantine tank.
<Mmm, a bit small... do keep an eye out for aggression, nitrogenous waste accumulation>
I should share my technique in how I managed to do this.
<Please do>
I humbly admit to being stubborn about not setting-up a quarantine tank first and did learn a hard and aggravating lesson from not doing so. My attempts to treat the main tank with Stop Parasites (Chem Marin botanical product)
<... bunk>
did not work. In my opinion, save your money and don't bother with this rather expensive stuff. I understand the importance of keeping the main tank fishless for a period of 3-4 weeks to "starve-out" the ich life-cycle process.
<Good>
I witnessed some Psychedelic Mandarins eating live brine shrimp in my LFS and bought some with the hope my Mandarin could survive on this food source during his 1-month stay in the quarantine tank,
<Mmm... some Artemia is better than others, but...>
which is being treated with CopperSafe. I've been using a 2/3 strength solution due to the scaleless fish I have.
<Good>
Well, the Mandarin won't eat the BS (hmmm... guess I shouldn't use an abbreviation with brine shrimp). After being in the quarantine tank for 5 days and refusing to eat the brine shrimp, I moved him into my refuge to eat pods to build-up his strength. I know I am risking extending the ich life-cycle process by having the Mandarin in my refugium and intend to move him back to the quarantine tank after being in there for 3 days.
<Will/should "re-start" the treatment and fallow time frames as of its removal>
I DON'T want to go through "ich hell" again. Did I blunder by putting my Mandarin in the fuge?
<Not blunder... but delay>
How does one keep a Mandarin fed via fug or main tank placement without also providing a host for ich parasites?
<Best, easiest through feeding cultures of small crustaceans... see IPSF.com, et al.>
I did read that Mandarins are somewhat immune to ich. However, mine did show some signs of ich before being placed in the quarantine tank. Thanks!
Steve
<Best of fortune/success, life to you and your plans here. Bob Fenner>

Re: Mandarin quarantine question   7/11/06
Gracias, senior Bob and to your gracious colleagues at WWM. I don't know how you guys have the time to respond (and so quickly) to emails such as mine. Between your website and PBS television broadcasts (commercial TV is just so much detritus), I'm a happy camper.
Sincerely,
Steve
<Ahh... a labor of our passions... for ornamental aquatics, the living world and desire to share with our species... Wish we had the PBS/BBC... a... budget for content production! Cheers, BobF>

Green Mandarin tail Problem  6/20/06
First of all my husband and I have found your site very useful. Thanks for all of the topics and threads.
<Glad you've found them... useful>
I'm writing because I've had two green Mandarins back to back that have developed something with their back fin or tail. It looks like it was glued together. It would not spread at all. The mandarins could not swim and therefore could not hunt. I lost them both. My husband is part of RASOC
<http://www.rasoc.org/>
and while at the RASOC/C-MAC Picnic we asked around and could not get any ideas what may have caused this. We have one of Bob's
books now and have searched through Wet web as well. I have not been able to get a good idea of what may be causing this.
<Mmm, me neither>
They are such beautiful animals and so hard to care for correctly. I don't want to purchase another one until I get down to the mystery.
We have a 20 gallon refugium loaded with pods attached to our 120 gallon . I'm sorry I have no idea how much live rock we have. I believe we have more
than enough.:)
Also many people at the picnic are very excited to be hearing Bob speak in February of next year Columbia, S.C.
<Oh yes... As stated, don't know what the root cause of this issue is actually... Other than trying your best to pick out specimens that don't exhibit this trait I'm at a loss here. Perhaps someone will "chime in" here with more. Bob Fenner>

Mandarins and External Parasites - 05/22/06
Hey everyone,
<<Hello Marc>>
Just a question.  I read recently on a reef forum that Mandarin fish are not susceptible to white spot due to a heavy mucus layer. Is this correct??
<<Though not immune, they are indeed quite resistant to external parasite infestation...too bad they're not as "immune" to starvation in the average marine tank>>
Thanks,
Marc
<<Regards, EricR>>

Re: Treat Tank Bred Clown & Mandarin with Metronidazole?   03/07/06
Thanks for the quick reply.  I believe clown's pectoral fins were short at birth because they are frayed (look torn).  He is doing much better every day and now swims side by side with the other clown (a little slower still).  I think that story will turn out okay.
   <Good to read, realize>
  However, something is now wrong with my female Green Mandarin.  The pair has been eating happily in a QT with refugium for about 4 weeks.  The female has never been as active as the male, but seemed happy - hunting and pecking (she is bigger than him and while not really fat, was well rounded).  Saturday morning the light came on and she didn't get up as usual.  I checked the water parameters and the PH had dropped to 7.6 - 7.8 (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate all zero).  I panicked and decided to move them to the big tank in case it was the PH or in case the pod supply was getting low.  She let me scoop her out with no trouble (by hand).  
   <Good... this is what I would have done as well>
  Both male and female are in the 180 gallon now.  The male seems fine, acting like a Mandarin.  The female stayed on the rock I put her on all Saturday.  Late in the afternoon, she made her way down the rocks to the sandbed.  She has stayed there on the sand for 2 days now - listless.  Her color looks good, no visible wounds, no signs of external parasites.  Her breathing is somewhat labored and she opens and closes her mouth constantly (with no food in it).  Yesterday, she did move around some - going to the edge of different rocks.  However, she just bumped into them (possibly by mistake) and didn't hunt.  I thought maybe she was having trouble seeing, but she moved her eyes when I moved a flashlight around this morning.  She won't eat and is now starting to get thin (hasn't eaten is at least 3 days - maybe 4, but I didn't watch her closely the last day before I moved her. I've tried shooting copepods and brine shrimp close to her and building a small pile of rocks from the
refugium close to her.  It is like she just doesn't have any energy.   
  I could probably get her into a cup or trap with no trouble to move her back to QT.
<I would not do this. I'd leave this fish where it is>
I just don't know what to treat her for (and the water is of course more stable in the big tank).  Any advice appreciated!
<If this system has a well-established refugium (with more ambient "live food" present, I might move the female to this... otherwise... Bob Fenner>

Re: Treat Tank Bred Clown & Mandarin with Metronidazole?   03/07/06
Hi Bob,
  <Yo!>
  The QT system has an ecosystem refugium that has been stocked with copepods twice over the last few years.  I don't know that it has more than the 180 with DSB and refugium, but she might have easier access in the ecosystem (if she will get interested at all in food).
   <Mmmm>
  Would it be less stressful for me to just pick her up once she is asleep (if she makes it that long)?
   <Am at that cross-point here. If you feel this is better/best, I'd do it>
  Very frustrating and sad!  We waited for two years to try to make sure we could meet the needs of a pair.  I didn't want to be one of the ones responsible for such a senseless death:-(
   <Callionymids are one of the families of marine fishes that seem to "do well or not" almost in deference to what our efforts would dictate. I do hope yours rallies. Bob Fenner>
  Thanks once again for replying so quickly!

Shortened Quarantine? - 11/27/05
Dear Crew,
<<Good morning>>
I bought a scooter dragonet yesterday and put him in my quarantine tank. There isn't a pod population in my quarantine tank to keep him full.
<<Agreed...>>
His belly is starting to shrink.
<<A bad sign.>>
I'm trying to transfer some over, but I'm not getting enough for him.
<<And maybe not wholly appropriate/accepted (amphipods vs. copepods).>>
Any suggestions?
<<Move the dragonet to the display.>>
I read that some people just freshwater dip their fish and put them in their display tanks. It sounds kind of risky. Does this usually work?
<<Quarantine is a good idea, but if there are some exceptions, I think this specie of fish is one that benefits from an "abbreviated" quarantine. These fish are fairly disease resistant and less of a threat in general, and considering the difficulty in meeting their dietary requirements, I feel it is better to move them to the display quickly.>>
Should I try it to get him into my display tank which has plenty of pods for him?
<<Yes>>
Thanks for your help. I don't want him to die in my quarantine tank of starvation because I'm trying to stop possible disease.
<<Agreed...is in the best interest of the fish. EricR>>

Mandarin goby  11/22/05
Hi,
I am having a problem with my mandarin goby. We noticed about a week ago that he was staying on the bottom of our 150 gallon tank
<Is about where they live...>
and not eating. He also had a white spot on the side of his head. I moved him into a quarantine tank 4 days ago and am using Maroxy.
<For what?>
Do you know what could be wrong with him? Would it be alright to use Copper?
<...?>
It almost looks like a big white pimple. It is located between his gill and his head, behind his eye. Any advice would be
appreciated.
Thanks,
Cindy
<I would not be concerned with this pimple, but look to getting food to this animal, discover what is going on in your main system that it is not feeding there. Is there sufficient food? Too many competitors? Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mandarins.htm and the linked files above, particularly on systems and feeding. Bob Fenner> 

Re: mandarin goby
Hi Bob,
Thanks for replying about my mandarin. He normally stays in the live rock  
and at night he stays on the bottom. When we noticed him staying on the bottom  
all day we took a closer look at him and noticed this big white bump on the
side  of his head. Since then he was staying in one place and not moving around
very  often. Before I moved him to the quarantine, I observed our sand sifting
goby  throwing sand at him and I saw him sucking at his side. He will be in
quarantine  for 5 days and still very still and not eating frozen blood worms
or pellets  which he had before. Should I move him back into the main 150
gallon tank or let  him be.
Thanks,
Cindy
<Thank you for the further information. I would move the Mandarin back... but do keep an eye on it for "getting skinny"... I would supplement food here... and soak this in a vitamin supplement as well. Bob Fenner>

Can I treat my mandarin w/ Coppersafe? Not a good idea  11/7/05
Hi! Is the mandarin ok to treat in my quarantine tank? He is showing a few spots & I am wondering If I can move him in with my Yellow Tang in quarantine? PLEASE HELP??
Bluesachet
<... please read on WWM re copper use, Mandarin Disease, quarantine... all posted there. Bob Fenner> 

Another Mandarin Death and More Lack of Research.  10/5/05
In my 55 gallon tank I had a mandarin who is now dead. <I’m sorry to say that this is not the least surprising.  Most Mandarins are put into inappropriate confines with inappropriate tank mates.  These fish require large tanks 100 gallons plus, with loads of well established liverock and large fishless refugiums.  They also require the absence of other “pod” eating fish such as other dragonets, gobies and wrasses. In the future please research fish before purchase. In doing so you would have quickly known the Mandarin was an inappropriate buy. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mandarins.htm .> There is around 100  
pounds of live rock in my tank and I would only see him once a day. He was very small, but I didn't see him being picked on at all but when I found him wedged between two rocks he had shredded fins. The other fish are 2 clowns who don’t leave the top right of the tank, a bullet goby <This specimen was in direct competition for food with your Mandarin, likely a factor in its demise.> , cleaner shrimp, and a yellow
tang <This fish will quickly outgrow its current tank.>. I didn't notice any aggression between him and any other fish. <Chances are there was no aggression, he simply starved.> He
couldn't  have been dead for more than a day because I just added a protein skimmer last  night <You have a heavy bio-load and you just added a skimmer, I am guessing the water quality is below pristine? This could be another cause/factor in death.>The tang (the only one who I think might have hurt him) is scared of  everything and when you walk within 5 feet of the tank he swims away. I
also  just added an anemone <Another poor choice in tank-mate for a Mandarin and also another sensitive animal. If you don’t already know you need to identify the species so that you can provide proper care: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/cnidaria/anthozoa/anemones.htm .> but I don’t think he ever saw it being that its at the top.
<In the future please research the needs and compatibility of the animals you wish to keep before purchase, Adam J.>

Wherefore art thou Geisha/Mandarin? 8/27/05
Thank God for WWM! You guys are great...however I was hoping I'd never have to e-mail you again....
After searching around your site, I am still unsure of how to handle this.
I have a 100 gallon bow front with 110 lbs of live rock, all of the levels have checked out... perfect.
<?>
Occupants include a Chocolate Chip Starfish, 1 Coral Banded Shrimp, 2 Blue-Green Chromis (used while cycling still around), a True Percula, 1 Saddleback Anemonefish, a "red bulb" Anemone (that's what the LFS said), a Yellow Tang and 2 Mandarinfish (a male, Sumo and a female, Geisha)
Everything has been going great since the tank has been set up, except a brief issue with the Tang over a month ago, in which you all helped me eradicate (a freshwater dip).
All was well in my "Peaceable Kingdom" UNTIL....(I guess you knew that word was going to pop up sooner or later) My female Mandarinfish disappeared. Actually I didn't realize she disappeared until this morning, however once I began putting 2 and 2 together she has probably been "out of sight" for at least 2 days now. Yesterday I noticed my male mandarin swimming up and down the side tank wall, not munching on food there, just sort of solemnly going up and down...later on , he continued his normal activities...in retrospect, Geisha, the female wasn't with him... which at the time didn't register, I was more concerned with his odd behavior, but once he settled back to grazing and what not, I didn't think any more about it. This morning I came down and turned on the "daytime" lights in the tank and he did the same thing for a couple of minutes then went on with "normal" activities. Still, I didn't think anything of Geisha. These two have been so hardy for us, even though everyone warned us, it just never dawned on me that there was an issue. After cruising around on your website, as I normally do in the morning, I was reading an FAQ about a Percula that just stayed in the top corner of the tank, only venturing out to eat...I thought, oh, my Percula does that all the time, I should read on...the answer stated that the Percula was just lonely and checking out his reflection.
Bingo, suddenly it all came together....could that be the cause of Sumo's strange behavior?
<Mmm, unlikely>
I immediately went to the tank to look for Geisha, I didn't see her and started thinking about when I saw her last, approximately 3 days ago when I was adding a new live rock, a Squareblock Anthias, and a small brittlestar (rust & black in color with a black disk) The search for Geisha started around 10am today and still no sign of her, totally abnormal when coupled with the fact I don't recall seeing her at all for the past couple of days.
My question to you, should I do a "full fledged archaeological dig" moving rocks and stuff?
<I wouldn't>
I hate to upset everyone and get them all stressed out, however if she has fallen ill and hiding I want to try and help her (however that would be strange for her to just get sick out of the clear blue when she has always eaten well and been very active). Also, I truly believe the anemone is innocent,
<... innocent? Of consuming this fish? Is most likely it did>
even though she is large she eats well 3 times a week and is closely "guarded " by the saddleback. I don't recall ever seeing the Mandarinfish in that area of the tank. Also, in defense of Emily the Anemone, she has been wide open during the day, and hasn't emitted any indigestible "goo" plus her stem is almost translucent and when she eats "spaghetti" once a week (a driftworm) I can see it in her. Surely the voluptuous Geisha would show right through.
If Geisha has indeed passed on, will her rotting corpse totally screw up my levels, if I don't locate it?
<Doubtful>
I have about a dozen blue legged crabs and the same amount of turbo snails that are complete scavengers.
Any ideas would be highly appreciated. Thanks in Advance,
Amy
<This fish is likely gone... died, dissolved, consumed... by what? Bob Fenner>

Geisha the mandarin, discovered gone 8/28/05
Bob,
Unfortunately I was correct, Geisha was found dead behind a large rock shortly after I sent you the e-mail, it was rather strange, her coloring was still amazingly bright but it looked as though she had been "filleted" do you think it's possible that my overly aggressive and large (9"from tip of antennae to tail) coral banded shrimp may be at fault?
<Yes, possible>
He is always waving his claws around and taking a nip at all who pass him.
I think the behaviour that her mate showed after her demise is rather interesting from a fish socialization standpoint.
Fortunately she was close enough to the heater that when I gave it a gentle pull it washed her body up so that I could net her without disrupting everyone.
I appreciate your knowledge.
Thanks,
Amy
<Thank you for this follow-up. If you'd like, you can read re other folks mis-adventures with at-times aggressive CBS, on WWM. Bob Fenner>

Mandarin Mystery - 08/16/2005
Thanks for your advise in past.
<Glad we could be of service.>
I have a new dilemma. I purchased recently a mandarin goby, he is beautiful. I made sure that it eats newly hatched brine shrimp before we left the store.  
<This may very well not be enough nourishment....  they cannot survive on baby brine alone.  Please see here:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mandarins.htm and also the links, in blue, at the top of that page.>
First days were fine. Now here is the mystery --- my two cleaner ('skunk') shrimps died 3 days after introducing mandarin.
<Possibly/probably coincidence....  I doubt the introduction of the mandarin had anything directly to do with these deaths.>
They were in very good condition before and breeding like crazy. My all water parameters are fine (0ammonia, 0nitrates, pH 8,
<A touch low on pH, not dreadful though>
tank is 4 years old with deep sand bed and live rock),
<What of alkalinity?  Calcium?  Possibly iodine?>
I didn't change salinity or anything else. Now the mandarin acting strange too --- it breathes heavily and refuses to eat, prefers to stay in one corner and is not active as before.
<My first guess is malnutrition.  These animals require copious amounts of live foods to forage upon....  You do not mention your tank size, or the amount of live rock in, so this is my best guess.>
Besides 2 cleaners I also had 2 blue devil damsels (they get along fine and did not bother mandarin).
What is going on? what I can do to save my mandarin? What happened to my shrimps?
<Again, likely coincidence....  The shrimp may have died of a lack of iodine or calcium.>
(are mandarins poisonous?)
<To my understanding, mandarins are neither toxic nor poisonous.>
Thank you.  -Veronica
<Do please go over that article, and those links....  Wishing you well,  -Sabrina

Mandarin hiding - 7/7/05
We have a 44 gallon well established tank with a Mandarin dragonette(2 in), 2 false percs(1 in), a lawnmower blenny(2in), and a longhorn cowfish (2 in, and yes we know he's poisonous, and he will be moving to the 160 gallon when it finishes cycling). <Actually I was thinking this was a very stocked aquarium. No worries though>  The mandarin eats frozen food, shrimp pellets, and the copepods, he has been a steady and healthy tank mate for 8 months. <LUCKY. These are very hard to keep in small confines. I would attribute your luck with keeping this animal to the fact that he does eat frozen and pelleted food> Recently when we did a water change we rearranged the rockwork and moved a banded goby to another tank.  After the changes (none of which are new, we rearrange fish and rocks often) <Me too.>, the mandarin started spending lots of time hiding under a piece of coral, which is odd behavior for him. <Hmm>  He usually is cruising around the tank hunting ignoring all the other fish (and they ignore him also). Is this new behavior something we need to be concerned about? <So very hard to say. I can tell you though, through my observations in the wild, this is not abnormal for mandarin to hide in and around a territory be it rock or coral>  All chemicals are good: ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 30, and pH 8.2.  Any ideas? <Unfortunately, there is little I can offer here. As long as he comes out to eat, you keep water chemistry, and other inhabitants don't bother with him, then I would say he is just in an adjusting period.>  Thanks for all your great advice.   Casey & Lisa <~Paul>

Mandarin Death
Hello,
<Hi Martin> 
I have a 50 gallon marine tank which is 2 years old and the love of my life! I have soft corals, gorgonians and some small fish inc neon gobies, clowns, a blenny and starfish. I carry out regular water changes of 20% every 2 weeks with RO water. I test my water regularly and have no problems. Everything seems healthy, however, yesterday, I found my mandarin dead. He had no signs of injury and looked plump and well. I was shocked at his death. He has lived seemingly happy in the tank for just over a year. I am puzzled as all of my other fish and inverts seem absolutely fine. Our electric had to be off for most of the day the day before he died, which the corals didn't like a lot. Could this have caused him to die? I just think it's strange that everything else looks ok. I am very upset as he was my favourite fish, please help!  
Thank you, Martin. 
<I wouldn't think a slow drop in temperature would kill it unless it fell below 70. Possible the system ran out of goodies for him to eat. Was it acclimated to frozen food etc. Search Google on the Wet Web, keyword "mandarins". You may find someone else who has had a similar problem. James (Salty Dog)> 

Mandarin Goby appearance concerns
First, I just wanted to thank you guys for a great informative site. I've read so much lately, but haven't been able to find what the problem is with my mandarin goby. Although, I have quite a few copepods visible in my tank already after only a month of setting up, I've noticed that my mandarin's skin is a bit irregular. I'm not sure if I got him that way, I didn't really pay attention. But after looking at him for a week now, I noticed he has some weird spots on him and also some bubbles on his skin. The bubbles seem like bumps. I can't quite figure out if this is ich, some other disease, or maybe it's normal. I've done quite a bit of reading and it doesn't seem like ich, because I don't see white spots that look like sand, but more like his skin is being rubbed against the rocks and maybe that's what's going on since I have a small tank for a mandarin. He's swimming fine and seems quite active grazing over rocks frequently, breathing fine, and eating I assume since I have ample copepods. I have a 24G nano cube, 30 lbs live rock, 20 lbs live sand, 30 or so hermit crabs, 15 or so snails...
<This is way too many hermits and snails... I would remove about two-thirds of both... trade them in?>
...1 peppermint shrimp, serpent starfish, 2 yellowtail damsels (used to cycle tank), mandarin goby, and 1 clownfish. All parameters are normal, water changes done every week. Is this something I should be concerned about? Should I take the mandarin out ASAP? The bubbles are noticeable on the top of its head, side, and bottom. Thanks so much for the help. Perry.
<I would not panic... or "do" anything re this fish at this point. Likely will "fix" itself. Bob Fenner>

Sick Mandarin Fish
Help.
My mandarin fish (Mr. Mandarin) is ill. He was feeding fine and eating loads until this morning. I got up a bit earlier than normal to do university work and turned the lights on about 30 minutes earlier than normal (I don't have any corals so didn't think it would matter)
<Does matter... better to use timers...>
My tank is set up with live rock at either end with bare coral sand in the middle To give my knobby starfish some ground to move over, I also have a sailfin tang, hovercraft cowfish, two percula clowns and a tassel file fish and 1 hermit crab (hitchhiker on the live rock) I have a U.V sterilizer protein skimmer  an external canister filter and two power heads to help circulate the water . The mandarin shot from one side to the other which is very abnormal for him so I had a closer look and he had a patch one his skin about the size of a 10p piece (sorry I'm from England and its the only way I can describe it) This patch is like the skins been bleached but it still has a little colour to it but mostly white you can just
see his normal pattern on his skin. The patch has stringy mucus coming off it.
<Mmm, these fishes (Callionymids) are quite slimy... the patch may have been nothing... but a too-early wake-up call by you>
On seeing this I decided to move it. I had a small 10 gal tank set up in my tank stand which I cycle live rock through, taking it out of the tank so it can regrow before putting it back in and taking out another piece it has the same temp, ph salinity as main tank I check weekly.
<Good practices>
I decided I had to put him in here it's got a small internal power filter and a heater as well as a light. I regularly top this water up with weekly water change water form the main tank.
<Very good>
I have treated him with Myxazin as my LFS Seemed to think it was a bacterial infection of some kind.
<Very rare with dragonets>
He is just sitting on the bottom of the tank not even moving on to the live rock that's in there (should I leave this or take it out)
<Leave it in... discontinue the Myxacin use>
he always sat on the live rock in the other tank, except at night when he moves around the sand in the middle looking for food. The patch seems to be getting bigger and more strands of mucus are forming. Could the
starfish have bitten( well what climbed on him and tried to digest ) him or something on the liverock,
<Yes to both possibilities>
I just noticed a cottonwool look growth on one piece looks like the mucus on the mandarin? what should I do? sorry if I wrote loads down just wanted you to get all the facts all though I probably left something out. Hope you can help sorry I cant give a picture oh and he doesn't seem interested in food but could that just be stress from moving him.
Thanks Andy
<First off... relax... nothing good will come of over-reacting here. If the animal is otherwise fine, eating... I would move it back to the main tank... far more likely to recover there... What the root cause of the spot is... who knows... but it will likely self-cure. You list some fishes that grow quite large, and as a group they are a source of prodigious wastes. I do hope you monitor water quality closely. Bob Fenner>

Re: Sick Mandarin Fish
Hi
thanks for the reply the mandarin died about two hours after I sent you the email still not sure what did it, all the fish seem fine, I monitor water quality weekly as well as doing a water change and all the fish seem fine. Thanks for the reply anyway
Andy
<These "things happen"... Bob Fenner>

Mandarin fish disease
I have read that mandarin fish do not catch "Ick". <Not true in my experience> Is this also true of "Velvet"? <They can catch both!> Can they carry/transmit these diseases to other fish? <Yep>  Should they be quarantined? <Yes sir, as well as any living thing added to your aquarium for 4+ weeks>
Thanks again! <Sure thing - M. Maddox>

Mandarin health
Dear Crew, <Hello, how are you??>
I have had mandarin fish (Synchiropus splendidus) for 6 months and he has been fine feeding on frozen foods until yesterday morning when he just sits motionless in the tank with fins erect with laboured gill movements but no other sign of infection.  Ammonia, nitrite are 0 and other parameters are stable.  Other occupants of the 125 litre tank with live rock are 2 cleaner shrimps, 2 black footed clownfish and various soft corals.  All other occupants are fine.
I have never known a fish to change so quickly with no apparent reason and to have erect fins as a symptom.
Any ideas?
Gordon
<Hello, Gordon.  I do have an idea.  I think that the mandarin might be getting picked on by something in the tank.  It doesn't have to be fish related to be picking on the mandarin.  It could be that there is a crab or shrimp that are bothering the fish.  The dorsal fin being erect is usually a defensive posture in most fishes.  You mention that the other parameters are stable, does that include the PH?  One other possibility could be that the fish could be coming down with something called marine velvet.  Check for tiny "sugar like" spots covering the fish.  Good Luck.  MikeB.>

Re: mandarin fish
Hi Mike
Thanks for that.  In the end he actually seemed to get better himself and now seems to be doing what he was doing previously.  As for something chasing him it could have been a mantis shrimp that I discovered in the tank a few weeks ago that could have had a go at him.  I subsequently caught the shrimp yesterday (about 2 inches long and brown) and so hopefully he won't get hassled from him.
Shall keep an eye on things and let you know.
Cheers.
Gordon
<Gordon, thank you for the kind words.  They bring a smile to my face and brighten my day!!!  Keep me posted. MikeB>
 

Mandarin Sick or Starving? Hi,    First of all thanks a lot for your help on Cyanobacteria.  When I opened my mail and saw your reply I felt as if I had won the lottery, you really made my day!    I'm sending the picture of my mandarin to check if he's starving. [Image] <A nice pic, and your animal looks healthy, full-bodied to me> and also because, as you can see in the picture, he has a white thing hanging from his first dorsal fin (FDF), and some white spots around the fins, and sometimes on his back too, you can see one of those behind his eye. [Image] <Yes... does look like the size, indication of ich/Cryptocaryon... I would NOT do anything in the way of chemical treatment here... maybe bolster the animals immune system with added vitamins... soaked on its foods... and hope whatever it is "goes away" on its own, becomes less virulent.> These two pictures were taken 3 days ago, a week after he had arrived, after seeing this, I gave him a freshwater bath with Methylene blue for about 5 minutes, the poor thing nearly died, he had 2 bowel movements and thought that was enough (I now know that freshwater baths are not a good idea for scaleless fish, but back then, I didn't -I apologize). <Yes, Mandarins do not "like" FW dips> The colorless part at the middle of his second dorsal fin also looks better now, and his side fins which were bitten by some fish at the LFS, have also improved by now.     Back to my mistake, I also thought those white points were ick, they were actually sand that he sucks in and throws out through his gills (something aquarists should be aware of, you always see the picture of a clean mandarin and then start wondering what those white things coming and going are).  After the bath the white thing on his FDF fell off, but it has appeared again, after 2 days.  Further watching him I believe that the white stuff  is actually the "web-like" stuff that these snails (from the next picture) leave as they move. <This pic did not come through>   These trails are filled with white little critters which I assume are their children.  These shell-less snails are about 1 cm in length. [Image] These creature are all over the tank and I really hate the stuff they leave, which leads to question 2, I got these snails on some rock from the beach, I know I shouldn't take them back, so which is the "nicest" way to get rid of them? <Put them in a plastic bag and place them in the freezer... put in the trash later, near trash day>   I had the same problem 2 weeks ago with nearly 80 little sea urchins which came invisible in another rock and after growing to about 1 cm in around a month ate my whole LR, since back then I didn't have the mandarin and everything was local, I didn't care to take them back to the beach.   In advance, thanks a lot for your help.  You're definitely some type of aquarist angels.     Yours truly, Rogelio (Tampico, Mexico) <And you are a budding marine biologist! Make sure and study business as well... so you'll be both wealthy and able to enjoy your aquatic interests. Bob Fenner>

The Eye Has It...For Now? (Mandarin With Eye Disorder)
Hello, I have a 150 gallon reef tank with some fish and mainly soft corals and shrimps, crabs, starfish, etc.  The water quality seems fine but I noticed about a week and a half ago my mandarin had a white spot inside one of his eyes under the clear outside part I guess what would be the cornea.  The outside was still perfectly in tact from what  I could tell.  Over the past week the white area has gotten bigger and now that eye is definitely swollen.  Is this a fungus or a bacterial infection and more importantly what do I do about it.  It didn't appear
as if there was any injury to the eye, it seems as if it happened from the inside out.  He is still fat and healthy otherwise, eating well. I haven't taken him out and QT'd him because of his special dietary needs, I also can't feed him medicated food, so I don't know what to do.  All my other fish look healthy and don't seem to have any visible problems.  Besides water changes, what else can I do for the mandarin? Should I take him out  I have just been monitoring him to see if it would go away on its own and now I see that it doesn't look that way. Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Kylee.
<Well. short of removing him and administering medications, it may simply be advisable to do those water changes, and maintain excellent water changes. I, too, would wait until it became absolutely necessary before removing the fish for treatment. It is a calculated risk, but you may want to take that risk and see if this clears up by itself. Hope for the best! However, if this does not improve, or if the fish declines, then you will need to intervene medically. Regards, Scott F.>

Mandarin Quarantine Procedure?
OK here's where I'm at.
<Fire away>
72G+10G fuge, 0/0/10 Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate, SG
1.023. We are in our 1st week of (intended 8wk) fallow
period. 4 fish (1 Ocellaris, 1 Checkered Goby, 2
Chromis) are in QT for ich. Combating
ammonia/Nitrites in the QT w/aggressive water changes
& HBH Ammonia removing media. I changed to this after
trying Penn Plax Ammonia cartridges; if I've got this
right-- Zeolite based, no good for saltwater, right?
Is HBH ammonia filter media any better? I chose this
over Poly Filter because Poly Filter would remove the
copper (saving for after treatment).
<I'd attack the water quality issue with an aggressive water change schedule, and avoid chemical filtration media until you are done with the disease treatment>
Cleaner shrimp (Amboinensis), Sandsifter star & Spiny
brittle star remain in tank, but for the 1st time I
have really noticed, I have *swarms* of copepods &
isopods. I've been seeing them in slowly increasing
numbers over the last few weeks (tanks running about 9
wks now), but never in these quantities. Some of them
are getting big, too-- 1-2cm (shrimp I think).
<Amazing what happens when the predators are taken away, huh?>
So I'm starting to wonder about how soon the tank will be ready for my primary goal fish, a Mandarin Dragonet. I realize the concerns about aquarists buying these fish & their dying of starvation, which is why I'm taking steps to make sure I have a proper environment to keep one.
<An excellent concept>
But here's my concerns...
OK-- let's assume I've completed my isolation & fallow
period for ich. How does one isolate a Mandarin before
moving him to the main tank? My concerns are making
sure he eats, but what's the best way in a bare QT?
<Good question. Lots of thought on this issue. My personal recommendation with this fish is to provide some live rock and possibly some macroalgae in the QT, which may provide a bit of foraging for the fish.>
Should I try to scoop out some of the critters
floating in the main tank's currents, & introduce them
to the QT? (assuming I can keep the ammonia under
control, besides)
<Yep- that was my next recommendation>
I'm wondering now, though, perhaps I can take
advantage of the other fishes' isolation, & basically
quarantine a Mandarin in the main tank. If I'm
understanding these fish correctly, their slime coat
is protective (partially? completely?) from parasites
& infection (I'm not sure where I read this, is this
true?).
<It is thought to provide some resistance to parasitic infections>
What if I were to wait 4-5 weeks into the fallow period, after I can be semi-confident that the ich cycle is broken, & have him 3-4 wks in advance of the other fish? Is he resistant enough to ich to be considered effectively a 'non-fish'? Or would waiting
about 4 wks be sufficient that it shouldn't be a concern, even if he weren't resistant to it?
<I see what you're thinking about here...Good thought, under the circumstances. My only concern is that the Mandarin, although it may be resistant to ich, could bring this into the tank yet again...A real Catch 22! I'm a firm believer in quarantine of every new introduction, period. I'd opt for the specially "quipped" quarantine tank, myself!>
In either case, in 4 wks time, I'm anticipating that there
should be enough live food available that he might
need help eating it.
Let me know what you guys think...
Pete Cushnie
<Good thoughts, Peter- and there is no shortage of controversy on either side here...I suppose that, in the end, it's best to err on the side of caution. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Very Sick Mandarin (4/13/04) 
Hi, my name is Kevin, <Steve Allen here> 
My last letter asked if I was proceeding in a sensible direction but I didn't get an answer. <Apologies. I don't know what could have happened to your inquiry.> My psychedelic mandarin is in big trouble with ich. PLEASE help. 
10 gal. quarantine 
2 small fluorescents 
whisper filter 
ammonia = 0 
nitrates = 0 
nitrites = 0 
(just added the fish April 3) 
ph is all over the place, it was great (8.3 Sunday) off the low end last night, added buffer and was 8.3 this morning. <Bad news. Try to find a way to control this as big fluctuations are definitely unhealthy.> 
82 degrees 
salinity = 1.018 <Gradually lower to 1.009-1.011 to be effective against ich. Higher levels are generally not effective.> 
coarse gravel = 1/2 in. 
1 small live rock 
trying to feed Cyclops with garlic and Zoe vit. supp. He was pecking at it yesterday. Not today. <This is ominous, unfortunately> 
My mandarin is in his own 10 gal. and was even looking for food until yesterday. This morning he is lying on the bottom covered in ich. I have dosed twice with Ich-Attack (recommended by 2 LFS) but was reluctant to add any Formalite-I. (Has a mix of Formalin, malachite green and copper sulfate.) <I have doubts about the real efficacy that make such broad claims (and do not list their ingredients) as I just read on Kordon's website. OTOH, Kordon is generally a reputable company.> 
I added a quarter-dose of Formalite hoping it would help yesterday but the ich is worse today. Should I use the Formalin-mix on my mandarin or is there something else more useful than the pepper-sauce they are pushing in the stores? <Copper and Formalin are excellent killers of ich. Unfortunately Mandarins are more sensitive to these than many other fishes, so the treatment may kill it. This is why my LFS keeps his Mandarins in his copper-free system. Our very own Magnus claims success with a product called "Stop Parasites." I am thinking another FW dip but need some good advice on what to use for treatment. <Mandarins also do not tolerate these very well. However, desperate times call for desperate measures. 5 minutes or so may get some of the ich off of him. I'm sorry to have to say that I doubt your Mandarin is going to make it. Drastic action is its only hope, but it has a good chance of dying from the treatment. You could go ahead with more Formalin, maybe a little less than the recommended dose.> Thank You. Kevin <Sorry to hear of your woes. Any idea how this fish contracted ich?>

Mandarin With Ich 2 (4/14/04) 
Hi, thank you for your help, this is Kevin again. <Steve Allen again tonight> 
Yes, I added him and a coral beauty that turned up with ich. Long story short, I did not have, but now have, 2 QT's. A 10 g. and a 20 g. (reproachful comments here>____;) I placed all the LR in a freshwater tub for a few min. and dipped all the fish, as all were infested. Display is now fallow for 2 weeks 4-17.  Coral beauty (in the 20 g.) died 4-12, I believe from the treatment and being weak already. We "dipped" the whole 10 g. with two quick water changes, ph/temp adjusted FW, then the same SW. The ich is still there but under control? I hope that low doses over the next week or 2 will work. (plus lots of Cyclops) <I hope he eats this.> I will try another low dose. <As I said before, you are smart to be careful with Formalin and Copper in Mandarins. I hope yours makes it through this illness. Keep us posted.> Thank You. <You're welcome>

- Ich, Quarantine, and a Mandarin Dragonette -
Hi, I just found out about this website, thank you for the hope you offer my fish!  I have a complicated question, and don't want to overload your system, but I tried to include as much background as I thought might be relevant.  And probably forgot to include some too.
I have myself and my fish in a corner by simply reacting and not studying up. I thought my fish would be covered with ich and die in 3 days if I didn't get some meds in the tank right away.  I went down to the LFS and was given a choice of 3 medications and no idea what they would do.  I started the treatment that night with Kick-Ich.  The next day I started searching and found your site. On your advice a 20 gal tank for quarantine is set up and running now.  (not on your advice) I also bought a 15 w UV sterilizer.  When I installed the UV I noticed my skin burning from the display tank water.  (Kick-Ich?)  After reading your opinion on this I stopped after 2 treatments.  Also the snails become unconscious??? in the display lying fully exposed on the sand so I moved them to the QT. <Would expect the snails to react negatively to the Kick-Ich. Would just remove them period... certainly not to quarantine where you might need to treat the tank with something that might just outright kill the snails.>
I have a 5 year old 60gal. tank, not sure but 50 or so pounds live rock, 3" sand/gravel bed wet/dry filter and sump (have photos if you want)  2-tube 40 watt light fixture Salinity 1.020; ammonia 0;  PH 8.3; Nitrates under 10 (the kit is only in increments of 10) I have an AquaC skimmer but have not used it since the (Grrr) Rio pump quit.
The tank has been pretty stable for a year or so.  I have a Percula Clown, Yellow Tang, 2 green Chromis Damsels, some snails and BL hermits.  A couple of weeks ago I added a coral beauty and a mandarin dragonet (who has been eating well from day one though I am watching him carefully)  The coral beauty was not so lucky, she was stressed out from the move and hid for 3 days.  When I finally chased her out I could see she was in trouble, one eye cloudy and a clamped fin complete with white spot starting where the black spot was.  In addition I could see the white specks on her.  The previous inhabitants had some spots for a few days but not now, but both the mandarin and the coral beauty have spots and ALL fish are twitching and chafing.  The white patch on the angel is turning black again and the eye is better, but the spots are there the same from the day I first noticed them, more in the morning, less in the evening.
I hope the preceding was not too much, but now I need a course to follow.  I plan to freshwater dip the fish, mandarin last, and place most in the QT. Mandarin goes to the new 10 gal I will set up for him.   I have Formalite 2 to treat the QT, but not the mandarin?  I will do a large water change, (aerating a.k.a.) on the display.  I think I need a separate QT for the mandarin and have read your answers to this dilemma, or should I leave him in the main tank? <I would quarantine the Mandarin.> I would like to go a month with no fish in the display but I refuse to sacrifice this little guy to starvation. <That may happen no matter what - your tank is too small to support one of these fish long term, even if it were the only fish in the tank.> (working on a refugium solution).  Am I on the right track? <Sort of, but I wouldn't let your whole world hinge around a fish that was a poor selection in the first place. I'd go ahead and try isolating all these fish and continue to attempt to keep all the fish eating, including the Mandarin. Go ahead with the pH/temperature-adjusted freshwater dips for all and keep under observation.>
Thank you for your time.  Kevin.
<Cheers, J -- >

Mandarin Dragonette and color loss
Bob and Crew,
<Hello Deborah>
Regarding this phenomenon:
"Ok, so the problem...Yesterday after changing the usual 10 gallons of water
and cleaning the algae off the sides of the tank that I do every week for
the last year, using Instant Ocean synthetic sea salt, I looked at my tank
after about an hour.  The other tank inhabitants seemed fine.  The Mandarin
was loosing color and lying at the bottom of the tank.  Its beautiful colors
were changing to kind of bleached light peachy splotches with some areas of
regular color.  It also did not move. &nbs