Re: Mandarin Aggression  - 02/27/06
Thanks James! <You're welcome Patty.>
Her tail is not as bad as it sounded... but he is in the QT refugium stuffing himself for now.  The LFS said they put them together a week before they called and that they had spawned once, so I thought they would be fine together (with plenty of rock and hiding places).  However, I don't completely trust the LFS.  He didn't really seem to be trying to hurt her beyond the tip of her tail.  The chase never lasted more than a few seconds before he would give up.  But, better safe than sorry.
The 200 and 65 refugium has been setup for 2 years and is ready for them.  I plan to give them one more week so the little notches in her tail are completely healed before moving them.  Then, I guess I'll put her in the big tank first just in case she still needs any hiding places. <They will definitely enjoy the 200.>
Thanks again!
PS  I researched like crazy before getting these.  I don't know how I missed it if a supposedly mated male is still aggressive toward the female or if the LFS simply fibbed.  The web (even this site) can sometimes be frustrating with all the contradicting advice - some say you can always add a female with one male, if you are sure it is really a female.  This pair is definately one male and one female.  However, I really appreciate having a place to get advice and yours makes sense. <Thank you.  James (Salty Dog)>

Dragonet Compatibility, Tankmates and Competition for Food (Follow up) 5/4//04
Leslie (or whomever is tending emails today),
<Hi Greg, Leslie here this morning tending the home fires.>
Thank you for the advice regarding keeping dragonets!  I see my typo caused
some confusion and you are correct - I intended to ask if I could keep purple Firefish with the dragonets (not *should* keep Firefish with dragonets).
<Your welcome and no problem re the confusion. I thought it may have been a typo. >
I had read that Firefish also eat 'pods so, with a pair of dragonets and a diamond goby I was concerned that there might not be enough 'pods to go around.
< A valid concern. According to the literature Firefish mainly eat copepods in the wild but in the aquarium they readily accept all kinds of meaty seafood. Keep they satiated with these other foods and they should not have to much of an impact on your pod population. >
I have noticed my yellow tail damsels and my royal Gramma also love 'pods when one happens to be pumped through my pump return.
<I bet they do.....but they are not dependent upon these for their main staple as the dragonets are.>
I hope the dragonets are naturally better at foraging for 'pods in the live
rock so they will have an ample supply.
<They are pretty good little foragers if the pods are available for the foraging.  Keep the other fish well fed. The size of the aquarium and refugium you have planned is what makes this workable.  You can also supplement the pod population with cultures purchased online,  additional live rock and macro algae packages which usually are full of pods.>
If you have not seen the following articles and FAQs  on the dragonets you may find them helpful.....
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mandarins.htm. In addition there is an excellent survey here....
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pericaridanfaqs.htm
     Regarding locating a male and female Pterosynchiropus splendidus and a Synchiropus picturatus, I am not sure how I can do this.  I had hoped a 180g
tank would be big enough to prevent fights.  The only place I have found mated pairs of these fish is on Aquacon.com but, based upon feedback in
several WWM posts, I have been reluctant to place an order with them.  Even if I were to order a mated pair of mandarins from Aquacon.com, they only
sell pairs of the same type fish.  I have had terrific success with Saltwaterfish.com but they do not sell pairs of these fish.  My LFS is also
unable to determine the sex of dragonets.  Do you have suggestions for locating a male Pterosynchiropus splendidus and a female Synchiropus picturatus (or vice-versa)?  
<Typically when fish are sold as pairs they are same species pairs so that is why you are having trouble finding a interspecies pair. Your best bet would be to request a male of one species and a female of the other.  Jim at www.marinedepotlive.com or The Marine Center http://home.flash.net/~rarefish/ may be able to help you.  These fish are sexually dimorphic. Identifying a male and female should not be very difficult. The males are typically bigger and more colorful with a noticeably longer anterior dorsal fin. Now the problem is that most often the fish collected and sold are males because they are bigger and more colorful. If you decide to try sexing them yourself, you are going to have to get comfy at the LFS and just watch them for a while. Hopefully they will display for you and the anterior dorsal fin which is usually collapsed and laying across the back, will be displayed. >
Also, please let me know what you find out regarding the possibility of a Pterosynchiropus splendidus and a Synchiropus picturatus mating (or even surviving together).
<You may have to report back to us to let us know if they pair up but should be otherwise fine together.>
If they will not mate could this also be an indication that they are different enough from each other that I might not need to worry about one being female and the other being
male (to prevent fighting)?
< A male and female of the 2 different species should be just fine together, however, the males of these species will fight with con specifics, so keeping 2 males together of any of the similar species is pretty much a recipe for trouble.>
     Regarding the Firefish, I had read that they prefer to be kept in pairs but I did not realize they would fight if they are not a mated pair.  Does this
apply only to the Nemateleotris decora or to the Nemateleotris magnifica as well?  I have the same questions regarding the Firefish: Do I need to be
concerned about having a male / female pair if I have one Nemateleotris decora and one Nemateleotris magnifica?
< You may very well have a problem the H.  decora.  It is the most aggressive of the Firefish and recommended only one male per tank. The H. magnifica is reported to be less aggressive, but still needs to be kept one male to a tank unless the aquarium is large. There is more information available on these fish here .......http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dartfish.htm >
If so, is there a possibility that these two fish would mate?  
< I'm sorry again, I am unsure about interspecies mating,  I will see what I can find out for you in the mean time try http://www.breeders-registry.gen.ca.us/  or perhaps Frank Marini who can be reached via www.reefcentral.com in the Fish Breeding Forum http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=86 >
If this (mixed breeding) works, I could have some very unique looking fish!
<No doubt, however the larvae are quite difficult to raise and your set up not conducive to rearing. If you intend to try and breed these fish you will need a different set up
Thank you again for the help. Greg
<You are most welcome> Leslie

Letting Mandarins Spawn In Peace!
Greetings!  
<Hi there! Scott F. here tonight>
I have a pair of mandarins in an acrylic 55.  No other fish, except a seahorse.  I have over 60 pounds of GREAT live rock.  The tank has been going for 10 months.  I have over 1000 individual zoanthids in the tank with power compacts.  The tank also gets about 2 hours of direct sunlight a day (if clouds don't interfere.) There is NO extra algae build up from this, this is my first tank ever and I don't think I would want a tank without sunlight now.  The mandarins spawn every night (at least every night that I get a chance to watch)...
<Excellent! You're doing something right!>
Awhile back, I threw in a Scopas Tang and 2 Blue-Green Chromis....Big mistake!  I had a predatory snail sucking out the zoanthids and then the tang would come along and eat the dead/dying zoanthid.  I lost a couple hundred zoanthids until i found the predatory snail (pyramid door snail)...
<Bummer...But a good find on your part>
The 2 Chromis were violent with each other, and kept preventing my mandarins from spawning.
<Not surprising...These guys tend to be somewhat annoying to more passive fishes on occasion>
They kept getting in between the mandarins when they were starting to circle at night.  A hatred grew for the Chromis.....
<I can't imagine why! : )>
Went to the hardware store.....
Had a piece of acrylic cut that I used as a partition in the tank to go 'fishin'. Most of my rock work at that time was on one side...I put in the acrylic 'divider' and laid it on its side a bit. The tang swam right over. I caught him within like two minutes. I was amazed....within 10 more minutes, I had caught one of the Chromis....I was ecstatic!
Alas, I COULD NOT catch the other Chromis.....he was too smart....I gave up and let him be, hoping his new 'isolation' would change his behavior towards my spawning mandarins....it did not....he was just as violent towards them, but only when they tried to spawn at night.....
<Grr... always seems that the last fish is the pain-in-the-rear-one!>
After a week or two of that, I had to take out every single rock to catch the last Chromis, zoanthids and all. To do this, I simply let the rock sit in the air with no water. Just pulled everything out and set it on plastic. I didn't siphon any water out, and I finally caught the last Chromis....it was horrible....
<I can imagine. I've gone through similar struggles myself over the years!>
Spent hours fixing the rock and zoanthids. Only did one water change. By the way, I have over 100 pounds of sand, and only use a hang on skimmer that's become part refugium. Tank is INFESTED with Mysis and amphipods.
<That's the kind of "infestation" we like to hear about!>
Everything is now great, looks better, mandarins are back to freely spawning! I don't ever want to have to do this again,
which brings me to my question: Can I throw in a purple Firefish??????
<I suppose that you can, but I'm a bit hesitant to recommend adding another fish to this system, based upon the problems that you had with the Chromis interfering. Granted, Firefish have a more peaceful disposition, but why take the chance? If you're intent on breeding the Mandarins, leave well enough alone>
Will the purple Firefish care if the mandarins spawn?????
<Hard to be 100% certain...>
I trust you wetwebmedia!!
Thanks for your attention!!
Micah
<Well, Micah- I appreciate your trust in us. If it were me, I'd pass on any new additions to the tank (fish wise, anyways) at this point. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Mandarin spawning - 9/11/03
I read your site EVERY weekday and as soon as my tank is full of corals, (and I have extra money) I'm gonna buy some of yer books!!<happy to hear> the only fish in my aquarium are 2 mandarins. <Oh?> I promise you, they're fat and got plankton to spare. <very cool>  had pods forever, and even now I have developing colonies of Mysis. plus 1 small seahorse.  I've watched them spawn twice in the past week or so close to lights out. the first time, my buddy was over kinda late when the actinics were on,  I wanted to show him all the coralline and I flicked on the other 96 watt power compact bulb for a minute. within 2 minutes the mandarins spawned (basically they met and engaged in a circling 'hug" for like 5 seconds and both released their 'stuff'. <Wow>  me and my buddy were both stunned. <I'll bet. So they feed on live pods and mysids, and right before the lights go out (actinics only?) they begin to spawn, Correct??>  the next 2 nights, I watched for a bit and saw nothing,  the next night, I had the idea to try and induce the spawning by flicking the white bulb on a few times when the actinics were on late.  and to my amazement within 5 minutes they got their groove on again!! <I know they have been known to spawn in captivity but have seen very little written on the subject. Anecdotal, but a very nice report. Gives me something to go on>  as soon as they're done they race away to the rocks as if they're embarrassed.  felt like I should pass this info along to anyone who might find this info useful. <Thank you sooo much!>  I'm now more interested in that spiffy moonlight. <Yesss!!>  so, I guess my question is, (only filtration is skimmer and live rock with weekly 10% water changes (R.O)....if I wanted to try and breed these mandarins would it be mandatory to isolate the eggs and 'stuff' in a separate container and figure out which first foods to feed them or does the remote chance exist that I could see babies in the main display at some point?? <Depends on predation. Many animals can and will predate on the larvae at various stages of development. I would say, though, that it is possible to have them in the main display tank. First foods will likely be phytoplankton, rotifers, nauplii, and like sized foods. Will need to be live for sure! Good luck - Paul>  thanks crew!! Micah in Cali.

Mandarin spawning follow-up/Anthony 9/12/03
I read your site EVERY weekday and as soon as my tank is full of corals, (and I have extra money) I'm gonna buy some of yer books!!
<thanks kindly for the consideration>
the only fish in my aquarium are 2 mandarins.  I promise you, they're fat and got plankton to spare.  had pods forever, and even now I have developing colonies of Mysis.
<excellent to hear>
plus 1 small seahorse.  
<do consider a refugium if you do not have one already... the mandarins and seahorse will take a heavy toll in time (years) on the pod population... but a fishless refugium might feed them indefinitely>
I've watched them spawn twice in the past week or so close to lights out.
<yes... dusk spawning is the norm for them>
the first time, my buddy was over kinda late when the actinics were on,  I wanted to show him all the coralline and I flicked on the other 96 watt power compact bulb for a minute.  within 2 minutes the mandarins spawned (basically they met and engaged in a circling 'hug" for like 5 seconds and both released their 'stuff'.  me and my buddy were both stunned.  the next 2 nights, I watched for a bit and saw nothing,  the next night, I had the idea to try and induce the spawning by flicking the white bulb on a few times when the actinics were on late.  and to my amazement within 5 minutes they got their groove on again!!   as soon as they're done they race away to the rocks as if they're embarrassed.  felt like I should pass this info along to anyone who might find this info useful.  
<much appreciation indeed>
I'm now more interested in that spiffy moonlight.  so, I guess my question is, (only filtration is skimmer and live rock with weekly 10% water changes (R.O)....if I wanted to try and breed these mandarins would it be mandatory to isolate the eggs and 'stuff' in a separate container and figure out which first foods to feed them or does the remote chance exist that I could see babies in the main display at some point?? thanks crew!! Micah in Cali.
<spawning of mandarins is uncommon only because few people give them proper housing (quiet tanks) as you have. But they have indeed been spawned and reared. Julian Sprung published an article in FAMA magazine on the event in the late 1980's if I recall correctly. You can also find data and spawning reports in the Breeders Registry (marine database... well worth the subscription). Do some research starting with these tow points and send us pics of your baby mandarins later! Best of luck! Anthony>