Marine Fish Diseases and Parasites, 6/12/08
Hello Chris,
<Hi>
I have found a sight with some useful info that may benefit all.
<Great>
Please preview, and scroll down to External Gas disease- similar to my clowns' but the sacs look more like water balloons. She is still alive today, and I'll be doing the second treatment soon.
<Good, does look similar, might very well be related.>
It truly caught my surprise that you had mentioned the possibility of cancer. That would be my luck. That disease took my entire family, by the time I was 33 years old. POO!
<Sorry to hear, my family has also suffered from this disease, but cancer is fairly common in fish as in humans.>
Thank you Chris for all of your assistance.
<Welcome>
http://www.chucksaddiction.com/disease.html<http://www.chucksaddiction.com/disease.html>
<Chris>

Koran angel question, neuromast destruction reading  - 06/08/2007 Hi, your site is wonderful, but I would like to confirm if what I am seeing is a disease or just color change starting. I fear it is the lateral line disease. <Is> &nbsp; He is a 300 gallon (1 year old system) with 150 lbs of live rock algae staring to grow real nice), deep sand bed, and a maroon clown for a neighbor.&nbsp; they get along and they both are in no stress.&nbsp; The water parameters have been great.&nbsp; I have two filter/skimmers on the tank rapids pro) which keep the water crystal clear.&nbsp; I feed him krill, red algae, occasional vitamin enriched brine shrimp hear they are like potato&nbsp;chips)&nbsp;but have recently switched to Spirulina/chlorella/brine shrimp/mysis shrimp frozen mix, and he loves the ocean nutrition formula one flakes(derivitives of fish and veggies, cereals, molluscs and crustaceans, oils, algae and minerals).&nbsp; He acts normal, eats heartily, and is not much of a bully.&nbsp; He swims right up to the glass and scares only at fast movements.&nbsp; At first he got some blotches on his face which is will send a photo of this stage.&nbsp; I can not get him to stay still for a good photo but now&nbsp;the whiteness has covered his face and a white line has gone&nbsp;down the side to the tail.&nbsp;&nbsp;Only his lips and eyelids have the blue, I can distinguish the white strips there still.&nbsp; Can my clown get this as well?&nbsp;&nbsp;It swims around all day pretty happily and feeds well.&nbsp;&nbsp;Swims around the top some and rubs himself continuously on the sides of the tank.&nbsp;&nbsp; Hope the&nbsp; photo helps, and how can I treat this if it is the lateral line disease???&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Not sure what to look for... Atlantic blue tang sickness/death 5/12/08
Crew,
Honestly not sure what to look under... I bought a small Atlantic Blue Tang, 3-4", still in it's Juvi coloration. I brought him home and housed him in a 20 gallon QT tank, bare bottom, some live rock moved from the main tank, and a small hang on back power filter. He was purchased on Saturday, and did wonderfully for a week. On the 7th eve (last night) I found him vertical on the tank floor, his face down, tail up, leaning against the live rock. I was putting some Caulerpa (sp) algae in there at the time. Shortly thereafter I saw him right himself, swim up, eat a branch of algae, and resume normalcy. This morning he is much worse, upside down, still alive and breathing, but obviously not for long. He had been fed for a week with mysis, marine cuisine, emerald entree, etc. Water at start of QT is the same as it is now, with 0ppm Ammonia, Nitrites, <10 Nitrates, PH of 8.2 and temp of 79 degrees. Salinity is 1.025. He was doing PERFECT until last night. Eating wonderfully. The only thing that I have found was in Mr. Fenner's book, swim bladder disease, but I only mention this because it's the only thing that has similar symptoms. In his state, his color is the same, he's just upside down and dying. Why the rapid decent? It just doesn't fit a parasite mold to me, and it was so sudden that treatment was, well, too late, even if I knew what to treat it for.
<Sometimes these things happen. Juveniles are particularly vulnerable to the stresses of being captured, shipped, etc. The fish was likely already injured/sick when you got it. Please see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm>
Thanks,
Thomas
<Best,
Sara M.>

missing upper lip on powder blue tang  5/12/08
Hello all,
This is the first time I have ever posted to the site. The knowledge pass is incredible and I appreciate you taking the time to help me solve my
problem.  A couple of weeks ago we noticed our PBT no eating any of the prepared foods we feed our tank (Mysis Shrimp, Brine Shrimp, Krill, and rotifers, rotated or combined but not all together). We also offer Nori and variety of Brown and Red algae. We moved the BPT to a hospital tank yesterday. We have a little live rock and bunch of macro/micro algae. We moved it there in hope it would start eating. This morning I noticed his upper lip is missing. We are thinking the Social Wrasse is picking at (it tries to picks on everything).
<Perhaps... but what are the sizes of these tanks? (the display and the hospital) How big are the fishes?>
I have Blonde Naso, Yellow tang, yellow Coris, red spotted blenny, 5 blue Chromis, 2 clowns, and a lyre tail Anthias in a 200 gal tank.  Any help would be appreciated.
<It's hard to say what happened without knowing more about your system. A picture of the injured fish would help too.>
Dave & Robin
<Best,
Sara M.>

RE: missing upper lip on powder blue tang -05/13/08
Sara M. thank you for your quick response.
<No problem>
The display tank is 5x2x2 with a 50gal sump and the hospital tank is 10 gal.
<This is too small for a hospital tank.>
The chromis and the wrasse will be removed this weekend. Do you need water params?
<I would move the tang back to the display after the other fish are removed. If your water params are normal, then I would suspect something is bullying the tang. However, it might not be one of your other fish. It's also possible you might have a mantis shrimp or crab in the tank somewhere. Just in case, do listen for clicking sounds and keep an eye out for claws. Also keep an eye on the tang to see if it's getting worse/better. Time will tell, keep in touch.>
Dave & Robin
<Best,
Sara M.>

Sick saltwater fish 04/15/2008
Hi guys, got a bit of a problem here.
<<Good evening, Andrew here>>
I have a 35 gallon upright saltwater aquarium with 45 lb. of LR and a 6 inch sand bed, various kinds of macro algae & some mushrooms and a large feather duster , 4 hermit crabs, 6 snails & a shore shrimp along with the various cornucopia of other critters that come along with live rock. My fish are a Lubbock's wrasse 2 ocellaris clowns & a fire fish. Tank has been running 1 year.
<<Sounds good>>
The only thing I've added was some macro algae a few weeks ago. My nitrates & all are good but my temperature's around 70 although I usually keep it around 75-73. Yesterday I cleaned the sand & filters along with a 20% water change & today my fish have a problem.
<<I do hope your not disturbing the sandbed when cleaning>>
My largest clown the female is active but is swimming funny with a sort of side to side tilt. She only seems to be using her right fin to swim with, the other one isn't clamped or damaged but she is not using it. She ate a little but didn't show her usual appetite. The male is swimming normally but hardly ate anything, what he did put into his mouth he mostly spit back out. The fire fish & wrasse eat & act normally, both clowns & the fire fish have 1-3 what looks a lot like ich spots on them but it's marginally larger than ich and more...."soft" looking. My Qt tank is um...broken. (what a mess) I'm not sure what I can do for my fish.
<<This could potentially be raised spot, perhaps stress induced, which can be dealt with by providing more variety in a staple diet, add vitamins to food. Please do monitor closely, if a quarantine is available, somehow, i would arrange this and move to there to better monitor/feed. Please do check out this webpage and linked articles and FAQ's. Playing attention to the direct linked page of clownfish diseases. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clnfshdisart.htm >>
I have battled ich once in the past but I'm not so sure that this is ich. The fish are not scratching or rubbing & do not appear to be having any difficulty breathing & the wrasse is completely unaffected. Any idea what's going on?
<<Please do read, confer with the above. I have a feeling this may not be Ich. Hope this helps. Regards. A Nixon>>

Marine tank  04/01/2008
<<Hello Mike and Jill, Andrew today>>
Hello. I have a marine aquarium that has some kind of disease in it. About a week ago I purchased a fish that I later realized had an infection. Within a week all of my damsel fish, clown fish, and Angel fish were dead. I found out that my salinity was high a few days before my clown fish died. My tank had a salinity of 1.030 and I immediately fixed it. Currently I have a diamond goby and a pajama cardinal fish still alive. The diamond goby is fine, however I am not sure about the pajama cardinal. He has not been acting normal. He usually is out in the open but now he is in the rocks. He also has some small white dots on his body but he is not scratching himself.
They are only on his fins and have been there for almost two weeks! He is still eating and living in adequate conditions. I don't know what to do and would greatly appreciate any help you could give me. Please respond ASAP!
<<Sounds like the fish is suffering from marine Ich. My suggestion would be to remove both the remaining fish to a quarantine tank, treat using hyposalinity, which lasts about 6 weeks. While they are in the Quarantine tank, this period will allow the display tank to fall fallow and the Ich will die as there are no hosts available for the parasite to attach to. Please read more here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm >>
Regards, Mike & Jill Araujo
<<Hope this helps, regards. A Nixon>>

Attention: Sara M - fish health issues -12/15/2007
Hi Sara, (or whoever takes this one)
I wrote a while ago about an Ich problem in my saltwater tank (I cycled the Ich out).
Well, it seems that I've come across another problem. This time, I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA as to what the problem is.
As I wrote before, I have;
29g BioCube
SG: 1.024 - 1.026
Temp: 78F - 80F
Occupants; 2 Ocellaris Clowns, a (slightly miscolored) Watchman Goby, Clown Goby (Black), a bunch of snails, and 3 lil' crabs.
Live Rock with mushroom corals, Candycane coral, a few Zoanthids, and some clove / pipe-organ coral.
Water parameters: Normal
About 9 months ago, I introduced 3 Clown Gobies to the tank. One green. One yellow, and one black. The green one disappeared within a few hours. When purchased, the black and yellow ones appeared normal. Within a couple of days, I noticed what appeared to be small protrusions coming from their bodies. It almost appeared as if they were "flaring" their scales.
<Were they also swollen at all?>
When I brought them back the LFS, the folks there (very knowledgeable) told me they appeared to have Dropsy. They recommended that I either quarantine them, or humanely destroy them. Unfortunately, I destroyed them.
<Yikes!!>
Last week, I went out and bought 1 more black Clown Goby. I placed him in my QT for a week. At night, it's colors would fade to a light grey with small black spots (normal, I think), and during the day, back to black.
<Normal, but it can also be a sign of stress.>
When I introduced the lil' guy to the BioCube, it took about 10 minutes, and this one started changing colors. It had lighter spots (not white that didn't appear to be Ich), but started manifesting those "protrusions" again.
<wow>
I tried to reintroduce him back to the QT, but he's a lot faster than I, and now he's missing.
<Hmmm, he's probably in a "better place" now...>
Could there be something in the tank that's causing this?
<Certainly... there's likely something wrong with your water parameters.>
or is the problem with the fish? I just don't want to be (unintentionally) bringing something into the tank that's going to be harmful to the other feesh.
<Dropsy is not caused by any one particular pathogen (that we know of). It's something that tends to happen to already stressed/weakened fish. There's likely something wrong with your tank that's causing these fish to be susceptible to these ailments. Or, if you're SURE there's nothing wrong with your water quality, it's possible that the LFS is not caring for them well and that they are already weakened when you get them. Do you watch the fish in the store for several weeks (or at least days) before you purchase them? You should. And, of course, you should not purchase new arrivals.>
Thanks again for your help!
DJ
<De nada,
Sara M.>

Re: I am stumped! Comm. losses   12/5/07
Hello Bob!
Thank you for your response. I have spent the last few weeks monitoring our systems at work, and based on your suggestion, I have narrowed the problem down to the water supply.
<Ahh!>
Thank you very much for your help. I have also let the manager know that the filter needs to be fixed as soon as possible. Of course, that has not happened yet... but hopefully soon.
<Do keep on them>
We still have some fish deaths in our freshwater section (nothing out of the ordinary) but only one death in the saltwater section (a yellow tang with a mouth disease that was probably too big to have been wild captured in the first place).
<Happens. Am out in Hawaii currently... have collected a few tens of thousands of this Zebrasoma over the years... and DO advise fellow collectors to leave off with any more than palm-sized specimens... As you state, they don't ship or adapt well...>
Thanks again, and have a great day!
<And you my friend. Bob Fenner>

Sick Fish, Cycle, Improper Quarantine 10/23/07
Hello,
<Hi>
I am hoping you can help me out with my question. I purchased a 150 gallon tank 4 weeks ago and I am running 3 canister filters and a protein skimmer.
I have 250 pounds of live rock and 3 inches of sand.
<Ok>
Here's my problem. During the first 2 week I added 3 yellow tangs, 1 black ridged eel, 3 starfish, and 2 urchins. For 2 week tank and fish showed no problems, bio-filter cycle completed and just recently I decided to add more fish.
<No quarantine, did not allow tank to cycle, and added too much too fast.>
I bought 1 black and white butterfly, 1 green bird wrasse, 1 swallowtail angel, 1 coral beauty angel, 1 purple tang, and 1 Orange tail butterfly. I noticed once I added the fish into the tank they instantly started rubbing against the rocks, especially the wrasse and Orange tail.
<Way too much even if the tank was well established, need to slow down here, review your procedures, get a QT tank going and do some reading before adding any more livestock.>
Since then, the Orange tail and swallowtail angel have died. The other fish are active and eating well, but they are still rubbing against the rocks and looks like they may be breathing rapidly. Could this be stress or a parasite?
<Both, possible parasites, water quality issues, too much livestock, many potential things happening here.>
What should I do now? Your help would be appreciated. I am new to this hobby!
Justin
<First thing is to slow way down, you have too much in the tank, possible infection agents at work, and a long term incompatible mix. Best to start reading here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm .>
<Chris>

Sick Tang and Allardi Clown... SW dis.  10/1/07
Good morning,
<And to you>
First off, thank you for this wonderful resource! I have found so much valuable information here.
<Welcome>
I have a question regarding my sick tang (A. japonicus), a sick Allardi Clown and treatment options. I have looked thorough the site and not found exactly what I am looking for- but then I am feeling a bit panicked at the moment.
Background: 60 g. salt, between 45-50 lbs LR, emperor bio wheel (don't remember the exact size but uses 2 size E filter cartridges), Aqua-C Remora protein skimmer, maxi jet 1200 power head, temp 78, NO3- about 5 and NO2- 0.
I introduced my tang about 2 weeks ago after a month in QT. He seemed fine, everything was great in fact. Then a week ago he seemed to have ich. I pulled him out, gave a FW dip and placed in QT. I did not at the time remove the other fish as I couldn't catch them and no one else showed signs.
<Mmm... one route, path...>
The signs of ich went away in the tang and he was doing great in QT except for some "crud" on his pec. fins- it looked not so much like ich (grains of salt) but more clumpy but flat against the fins.
<The catch-all "Lymphocystis" comes to mind>
The LFS told me that it was likely a bacterial infection and told me to treat it with MelaFix.
<... dismal>
I did and now his skin is patchy with opaque blotches
<Poisoned... "tea-stained"...>
, he is breathing hard, his gills seem yellowish green and he is just floating against the side of the tank. This all happened over night and this morning. I did about a 30% water change in the QT and have the chemical filtration in to try to remove the MelaFix. I am terrified that he will not make it- he seems that bad and listless.
<"... and another one down...">
Clown fish is now also in QT he seems to have something more along the lines of Oodinium or gill parasites- he has cloudy eyes, and some stringy pussy looking stuff on him as well as some dark splotches on his white stripes. He is not breathing rapidly or holding his mouth open- though tang is. I was going to treat with copper but wanted to ask you what you thought the best plan of attach is as both fish are in the same QT.
<I would NOT copper the clown...>
Also, I think that I will have to remove the rest of my fish from the main tank
<Will>
and let it go fallow- they include 5 Chromis and 3 PJ cardinals. Then there is a sand sifting star, a cleaner shrimp and a coral banded (who actually don't bother each other).
Thank you very much for your help. I am sorry if you have answered this all a thousand times before- I'm in a panic!
<Best to be concerned... to the point of focus, research... then action. I would treat all with a quinine here. Please read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quinmedfaqs.htm
Bob Fenner>

Velvet Formalin  9/27/07
Hi Crew!
I was wondering something about velvet treatment I was hoping you could tell me if I'm going in the right direction? I have a 4 inch passer angel I have in a 50 gallon tank.
<Needs much more room...>
Yes I know he will out grow so this is a temporary home till my 220 is set up. He came down with velvet which I'm not sure why?
<... imported with or extant in the system, another fish...>
The trigger I have in there
<... trouble... territorial... stress... a component of disease...>
had no signs and he was in QT for 3 weeks but he has the dust. I'm treating him now with formalin 3 dips and a freshwater dip everyday and putting him in a new batch of water from my 120 gallon tank that has been going for 6 months now with no sickness. He's responding well and is looking good and eating. How many days should I dip?
<... see WWM re formalin, dips, Amyloodinium...>
He looks good now and its tempting to stop but I'm not sure how long to keep doing it? Now my main question is the tank? I read that if I take all fish out and leave vacant for a month that will knock out the velvet? Can I speed this up by treating the tank with formalin per the directions with no fish in it and then do a few massive water changes? They tell me to treat the tank everyday till fish is cured?
<... how will you assess this?>
Well I'm doing it in QT and with dips because I have had more success with the formalin dips then using it as an ongoing treatment. Basically just want to know when I should put him back in the tank? I do have the trigger out also right now. I also did put some ruby reef safe rally
<... worthless>
in the tank this morning hoping to help knock it out before I put him back in. Thanks for any input past and present.
<Read... see WWM re formalin, dips, Amyloodinium... Bob Fenner>

Sick fish... no QT... or reading...    9/9/07
I have a twenty-nine gallon Bio-cube with live rock. It has been up and running for six months. We slowly added a few corals,
<Mmm, what types, species?>
a couple crabs
<Same question>
and a few snails. Our first fish residents were two Clownfish and one Red Firefish.
<This last is a social animal>
They all seemed to be doing well, the corals were (and still are) growing, the water chemistry checked out great. Our biggest concern was some red stringy stuff (algae?)
<Likely... BGA>
growing on the sand which still seems to be spreading. We were told to feed less brine shrimp
<Not of much nutritional value>
and cut down on the amount of light in the tank to solve this 'red' problem. Just a week or so ago, we added a Six Line Wrasse and a Yellow Clown Goby. Within two days the Wrasse was less active and had white cloudy 'stuff' on his body.
<Oooops!>
We attempted to catch him to give a fresh water dip but never succeeded.
<No use here>
He died four days after introducing him into the tank. Within two more days the Yellow Clown Goby had white dots on his body. He died seven days after introducing him into the tank. This morning, six days after the Goby's death, we see white dots on our Red Firefish. My kids are heart broken. What do we do? So far the Clowns look fine.... Thanks for your help.
Kati
<... Read... here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasittksfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. You've introduced a parasite... which now resides in your system... Bob Fenner>

Disease Question, SW...    8/28/07
Hi all,
I've got a few questions for you. Please impart your divine knowledge of "all things aquatic" on me.
<LOL>
I've had several aquariums over the years, and now I'm on my 1st salt water tank. I'm starting to learn that the longer I stick with this hobby, the less I know.
<join the club ;-)>
I've got a 29 gallon Bio-Cube.
The occupants are; 2 Ocellaris Clowns, a Watchman Goby, and a Royal Gramma. In the "Invertebrate Department" I've got 1 blue-legged Crab, 2 red-legged crabs, and a small red starfish that does... well, whatever it is that small red starfish do.
The SG is 1.024, and gets a couple of drops of Kent Liquid Reactor at least every other day, and I've recently bumped the temperature up to 84 to help do away with the Ich.
<Temp. won’t likely make much a difference with ich. But 84F is a good temp in any case.>
When tested, the results all come back as being "ideal" conditions.
<I do appreciate you putting the “ideal” in quotes.>
Live sand on the floor, and 29 lbs of live rock floating around on the bottom.
<Hmm… floating live rock. Interesting… ;-)>
Recently, I purchased a Royal Gramma from a friend. He said that 2 weeks prior, it had a case of Ich that he had "cured." (Dumb move on my behalf.) The Ich came back. I gave it a fresh water dip, and placed it in a QT (more like a large bowl) until morning. When I woke up, the fish had gone to where all the good fish go...
<Oy, let me tell you a little secret… freshwater dips are pretty much useless. A dip in fresh water isn’t going to do anything but stress out the dipped.>
Being impatient, I went and bought another Royal Gramma. Now, this one looks like the rim of a Margarita glass too!
<Rim of a Margarita glass? LOL>
I now have a 10 gallon QT set up-n'-running, and prior to putting my fish in, I waited a couple of days to see if the Ich would manifest itself on any of the other fish (it didn't).? As a precautionary measure, I placed the 2 Clowns, and the newly infected Royal Gramma in the QT, but when I asked the folks at the fish store (a good one. NOT one of the chains) if I should place all the fish in the QT, they said to leave the Watchman Goby in the main tank because they rarely come down with Ich. Can't they be carriers of it without it showing symptoms?
<The ich cysts can be carried on any wet object. Ich has a somewhat complex life cycle that only partly involves the fish. The larvae/immature parasites hatch from cysts and immediately go looking for a fish. They need to attack a fish before they can mature. If they don’t find a fish, they die. This is why you need to remove all the fish from the tank. Please see here for more details: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm>
Now the 2 Ocellaris Clowns and the Royal are in the QT. I'm using Sea Cure (copper treatment), and changing 1 gallon of water a day. The SG is around 1.021, and the fish seem to be a little "put-off" or lethargic in their new surroundings. Last night, one of the Clowns was laying on his side, but not dead. The other came over, nudged him (or her), and she sat right up.
<Do you have any PVC pipe pieces or ceramic pots in the QT? If not, I’d get some. The fish need some place to hide/sleep. Also, 1.021 is still not low enough to kill adult ich. You need to slowly lower the salinity to <1.010 over the course of a week or two. This will stress out your fish so you need to make sure everything else is as “perfect” for them as can be. Do lots of water changes and make sure the tank is clean, etc. Again, see the above URL.>
Recently, I added 3 Clown Gobies, and all passed away. Two of them (within 3 days) came down with Dropsy (at least that's what I was told.) They had ragged patches of scales, but also had lil' white lesions on them. As disgusting as it sounds, it looked like there was a white worm or some other intrusive beast trying to protrude from under their skin. Nonetheless, they were pulled immediately, and the 3rd committed suicide by jumping into the filter.
Think my tank has problems?
<It’s hard to say if it’s your tank or if the fish you’re getting aren’t already sick. If the fish are dying within just a few days from things like parasites and dropsy, I suspect they were already sick when you got them. For the future, observe fish for a few weeks (or at least a few days) in the store before you buy them.>
Now that I've bored you with all that's going on, here come the questions;
How long do I have to treat the QT with Copper before the Ich goes away?
<See here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm Copper won’t kill the ich parasites that are already on your fish. But you might want to use it in your QT tank anyway to kill any immature ich.>
Do invertebrates carry Ich? If so, how do you cure them of it?
<They can carry the cysts.>
Do I need more than just Copper in my QT?
<To kill the adult ich parasites, you should do a proper hyposalinity treatment.>
Is it true that Watchmen Gobies are more resilient to Ich than other fish?
<Some fish are more/less resistant to ich than others. I’m not sure anyone could tell you which fish is the most resistant.>
How come the Royal Gramma was the only one to catch Ich? The Clowns NEVER showed a single spot on them, and the Watchman is still extremely healthy (and in the main tank.)
<Fish, when healthy, can often resist an ich infection… and some fish are more resistant than others.>
The folks at the fish store said that if I keep the main tank emptied of the fish (except the crabs and Watchman), that the Ich will die on it's on in 8 weeks. Any truth to this?
<Mostly, yes. But you should take the goby out and vacuum the bottom. You can’t treat the main tank with copper since even a tiny bit of copper kills inverts. So your only hope for the main tank will be to leave it without fish for several weeks and hope that all the cysts hatch out. Once they hatch and don’t find any fish, they will die.>
Thanks for taking the time to read my lengthy story. I just don't want to lose some aquatic friends. E-mail me with anything else I may need to do, or any constructive criticism you may have on what I've done.
<No problem. Generally, you should probably be more careful about the fish you put in your tank. Try to make sure you don’t get sick fish to start with and always quarantine fish before you put them in your main tank. >
Thanks much,
Paul
<De nada,
Sara M.>

Marine Ich, Maybe 813/07
Good Morning Bob & Co,
<Good morning.>
I have been cycling a 60gal/skimmer/100lb live rock tank for a month now and have a damsel in there. Its a month now and this morning I notice a white spot on the damsel's tail. Looks like the beginning of an Ich.
<Uh oh>
I added the 100 lbs of live rock a week ago from a guy who had broken down his reef tank and he had it sitting in his garage for a couple of weeks in a large container with a powerhead. I thought it would be safe to add this directly to my tank. Maybe this was the source of my trouble.
<Could be, if it was kept wet it could have been harboring the parasite.>
Anyway, my question is the following. I have a quarantine tank.
After moving the damsel to QT and observing it (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm), and if I leave the main tank without any fish or host for a month or so will it be safe to add fishes again?
<4 to 6 weeks needed here.>
Or am I looking at tearing the tank down before even I got started!!
<Unnecessary>
I learning the price of not QTing all things wet, and adding things directly early on :(
<Yep>
As always many thanks for all your help,
Gans
<Chris>

Re: Marine Ich, Maybe  8/13/07
Gentlemen,
<Where?>
Just an update. I moved the damsel to the QT tank and I see that white the spot in the tail has disappeared! Not sure what to make of it??
Ill keep in there for a couple of weeks just to be sure.
Thanks again
<Keep an eye on it, it could have just cycled off, or it could have just been sand or other debris. But better to be safe than sorry here.>
<Chris>

Tank Emergency: Unknown Cause... SW ... not reading   5/20/07
Hey guys
I'm in a tough situation.  My tank came down a heavy case of ich and the lionfish,
<Surprised this hasn't eaten your clowns... yet>
4 clowns,
<In how large a system?>
and 2 tangs all picked it up.  My blue damsel seems fine, but he seems to be invincible.
<Might have a bit of acquired immunity working here>
I thought the ich would pass, and I would let the tank fallow once I had obtained and set up a quarantine tank.
<"Time is of the essence" of most everything!>
Today one of my tangs died (VERY sad) and my largest clown fish looks like he is soon to follow.  The water is all 0's except about 10 ppm nitrate.  The fish are laboring for breath, which I didn't think was an ich symptom.
<This and...>
There is decay on the tips of their fins and visible ich on the body, awful looking scales and cloudy eyes.
<... What have you been doing to treat this?>
My large clown is up near the surface as if trying to take a  breath. The tank should be fully oxygenated, it is 120 g with a 55 sump and 1200 gph pump.  I have a protein skimmer running.  I have many inverts, and a couple anemones
<Plural? Trouble>
that seem perfectly fine.
<...>
  Just the fish are suffering.  What should I do?
<Read>
One more fact:  I got curious that there may be some kind of contaminant or pollutant so I started digging around in the sump.  I found a link of chain that had fallen in, I suppose while installing a hanging light under there.  I have heard of metal poisoning, but is this a possibility with so little contaminant in such a large tank?
<Is a contributing cause...>
I'm clean out of ideas.  I will establish the hospital tank ASAP,
<What have you been waiting for may I inquire?>
but I'm not sure how to get it cycled quickly enough,
<... read>
so I suppose I will stick to switching out the water daily in it to keep the ammonia and nitrite down?  What do you think?
<That you should read>
Should I medicate with the fish in such a sick/stressed condition?  Do you think this is the effect of Cryptocaryon alone, or do you think there could be something else at work?
Thanks so much for your help!
Craig
<Please, help your livestock and yourself: Start reading here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm
scroll down to the bright blue tray... Bob Fenner>

follow-up: I looked everywhere! (But did you look here?) 2/23/07, SW dis.     5/11/07
Hi Graham and Bob,
Thought I would finally drop you a line and let you know what happened with my fishies.  
<Good to hear back.>
I've been very busy so please excuse the very long reply and I hope your move went well Graham.
<It did, and the subsequent marriage and announcement of my baby-boy due in October went equally swell! (BTW, this is the first I've mentioned this even to the other crewers. Let's see who picks it up!> <<I can count to nine... if I take my shoes off! RMF>>
So it seemed at first that life guard was working however, a couple days after I last wrote you the white growths looked like they were growing again.  
<Discouraging, but medications can take a little time to show their benefits. Lifeguard is touted for its safety, so it would make sense that it is also a little less potent than alternatives.>
I went and bought a little bio-wheel filter and did another water change as the water was looking quite funky.  
<If this is the QT we are talking about, then I'm not surprised to hear about funky water if you weren't performing frequent (daily or every other day) water changes.>
I noticed that the clown with the lip growth seemed very weak always by himself hiding and labored breathing.  
The other clowns seemed depressed as well as they were not happily greeting me as much as they used to.
<Reaction to poor water conditions?>
The day after the filter addition they did perk up a bit but I noticed that the one with the lip growth refused to eat.  
On closer inspection I noticed the lip growth was actually beginning to grow into his mouth!  So he wasn't able to eat!  
<Uh-oh.>
My bf and I scooped him out and attempted the scraping it off with some small tweezers.  I think it stressed him out too much and the fact that he was already so weak from not eating for half the week, so that did kill him  :(   
<Sorry for your loss.>
The other clown who had the one on his pectoral fin that looked like it had popped before had always hung out with the one with the lip growth.  It's really weird perhaps I'm humanizing them too much <Is what we tend to do, not wrong.> but the day after the one with the lip growth died he seemed to be depressed, too, even though physically it looked like he was getting better and he was eating.  
However, just 2 days after the one with the lip growth died I woke up one morning and he had passed as well.
<Sheesh, double whammy. Water conditions were excellent in the QT?>
OH and while all this was going on I had captured the angel fish and she was in there as well and her eye healed up almost immediately.  
<Hmm, something is working at least...>
So I only had the coral beauty and two clowns left and a golden headed sleeper goby I had purchased and was QT'd in there.  At this point I just got fed up because all the other fish were fine except the clowns they still had growths on them.  So I did a drip acclimation and added them all back to the tank.  I figured if the clowns were going to die anyhow they may has well be happy.  I then did what you shouldn't do, I just fed them and basically just ignored them.... and miraculously they were just fine!  
<Makes me wonder if the QT was just not up to par?>
My bf asked about a week after I had added them back to the main tank what I had done to the clowns bc they were fine and growth free I honestly had not even noticed... I know horrible, but I looked and no growths and they have been great and healthy since still no growths and the coral beauty is doing wonderful as well.  
<Excellent!>
The golden headed sleeper goby was really really thriving..... until I squished him  :'(  
<Aww...>
He was accepting flake food and the frozen homemade food I made and was just sifting my sand like crazy.  I think I kept him going for gosh almost 3 months then I purchased a uv sterilizer from PetCo online... bad mistake.  It came in the mail and I had no idea how huge and bulky it was!  So when I was shifting a rock that he likes to hide under I thought he would jet outta there but ..... he didn't and after the water and sand settled.... I never saw him again after that so I can only guess I must've squished him!  :(  
<Sounds like...>
Which brings me to my last question.  I really loved that fish he was very cute and funny, I've read that they can get lonely and do well in a mated pair.  How can you ensure you are buying a male and female?  Or is there a way to just buy a mated pair???
<I actually don't know that one off the top of my head. I will look into that and get back to you. If you don't get a reply from me in a week, and your own research doesn't turn anything up, then drop a line and ask that question exclusively.>
OH and one more I'm sorry, I later added a cleaner shrimp he was also very awesome.  
<Was this before or after the clowns cleaned up? (Just wondering if that may have been a causal factor in their recovery)>
I had kept him successfully for about a month and half and he was even molting and growing then one day he just wasn't there.  Would a yellow canary wrasse do him in?  
<Can. Hard to say. A molting shrimp is vulnerable to attack.>
I added them both at the same time and they seemed fine and the wrasse was about 3" he seemed terrified of the cleaner shrimp bc all the other fish would go up to him to get cleaned and he'd jump on and ride them around while he cleaned it was quite hilarious but only the yellow wrasse would flip out if he got near the cleaner shrimp he would do just
about anything possible to keep away from the cleaner shrimp.  However, I heard they can and will eat crustaceans, so I was wondering if maybe he picked up his courage against the cleaner shrimp and ate him?  
<Sorry, I can't be of much help there. They are capable of eating your shrimp, though it's not common.>
I did do a water check at the time and it was all within normal range sorry too lazy to run down and get my book to get the readings for that fateful day  :(
Sorry again for the very very long winded response and thanks again for the assistance!
Shawn
<You're welcome, and I will look into the goby question for you.
-GrahamT>

Re: Quarantine, gen.    4/18/07
Thanks for all your help.
<Pleasure>
I agree with the whole quarantine thing.  Two of the three fish I got have already died.
<Sorry to hear this>
The first to die didn't have any noticeable lesions or anything (just a little black in color instead of green, but I noticed that green chromis do that when stressed)
<Correct, as with most fish>
but on the second, I noticed that the mouth was pursed and the gills were red.  After a little research, I decided they had marine velvet!!
<Likely symptoms, but other avenues to be explored with more information>
I dipped the last one in freshwater and am treating the QT with copper. All the fish were dipped in freshwater with NMB before being place in the QT.
<Did you discard of the, presumably ph adjusted, freshwater after each dip?>
Within minutes the water was noticeably less cloudy (I assumed it was just a bacterial bloom, maybe it was)
<How long had this bloom been going on for, when did it start – prior to or after adding the fish? More information about this may help>
I had tried to feed the fish several times and they wouldn't eat, also the first to die isolated himself in the corner (a sure sign of something wrong now that I look back on it!).
<Did you remove this uneaten food, as you probably know will add nutrients to the water>
I tested my water several times and both ammonia and nitrites were zero. So I was really confused as to why they died.  When the second one isolated himself, I had a feeling he was going to die, too. I got the fish Saturday and already 2 are dead.  I just hope this last one pulls through! I feel so bad, I am going to have a single green reef chromis in my tank, the plan was to have a school.  Also, the water smelt horrible, almost like formaldehyde, is that something you normally see with marine
velvet?
<Will more likely be the treatment used, which brand/type of copper did you use and what dosage?>
I have been doing 20% daily since I really don't know what is going on and the water is starting to smell more like the sea.  I was at my wits end today an almost threw the last fish into my main tank, good thing I didn't!
<Indeed, it can be very frustrating, but remember that these fish are in your care, so to through the towel in is quite cowardice and wont get you anywhere. A little more information and a photo would help us a bit more and hopefully we can fully solve this for your fish. Bob may have a different interpretation Keep going, the least you can come out with is the experience and the improved knowledge for if this presents itself again. Olly>

Help with dogface puffer,  4/14/07
Hi, I am having a little problem with my tank.  it
<It>
has been up and running for 6 years now, and my dogface puffer has been with me from day 1!!  
recently, I made a hasty purchase at  a local PetCo
<Proper nouns are capitalized...>
store which just opened up.  They had a large number of saltwater fish and I purchased a butterfly (Chaetodon punctatofasciatus).  I put him into my tank without quarantining him (I know that was foolish)
<You're learning...>
and on the second day of him in my tank he started to develop what looked like ich, but much smaller white dots.  It was only on his fins not on the body.  he was eating great for about 1 week then he stopped eating and died.  My dogface started to develop these dots now on his fins only too, he is eating great.  I tried a fresh water dip for about 40 seconds ( it did not look like he could stand more, he started to freak out).  Now he has more of these white dots on his fins only and they are starting on his eyes too.  I do not want to lose him, please help!!  
Your help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
JPK
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/fishindex3.htm
Scroll down to the orange/red bar... On puffers... Tetraodont Disease... and soon. Bob Fenner>

Re: Help with possible disease  – 4/9/07
Good Morning Bob,
<Brad>
Regarding dips (not the type who regularly write, mind you), I hope you are enjoying your time in Hawaii!
<Ah, yes, thank you>
I too often
<Can this be so!?>
rely on www.WetWebMedia.com for expert advice and assistance.  Having just re-read the well presented information in "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist", Part 1, Chapter 9, on diseases, I feel compelled to remind readers how enlightening and worthwhile your book really is!  Thanks for this gem.
Brad in Basalt
<Welcome my friend. Bob Fenner>

News Article Mentioning Sea Dwelling Creatures   4/1/07
(http://www.bendweekly.com/Science/4161.html)
<Ah, great to see such interest, cooperation twixt the trade and government... Sea Grant, OSU... re incidental mortalities... A field long ignored... and very important for sure. I do hope some prophylactic, useful, disseminated report/s issue from this work. Cheers, Bob Fenner who thirty some years ago tried to get the industry to adopt simple pH-adjusted FW dip/bath protocols...>

Disease question  3/19/07
Hi,
  I was unable to register and post a new topic in the 911 forum...
<Write Lorenzo Gonzalez re, as posted on WWF... this is his "baby">
  Bicolor angel fish purchased 4 wks ago from LFS with Royal Gramma Basslet and Dartfish.  Put all 3 in 10 gal QT with bare bottom and PVC for cover.
    The first 2 weeks everything great.
    The third week RGB starts swimming sideways, breathing heavily and bicolor angel (BA) has a white coating over one eye and ragged fins.  RGB has no external symptoms (no spots, ragged fins, etc).
  Incidentally, I did a 20% (2 gal) water the day before this went down.
     Tried Furanace, RGB died two days later.
<Water quality?>
      3 treatments of Furanace yielded no results with BA, so I tried penicillin.  Fins start looking better, the white coating over one eye did not look like cloud eye pics I have seen, but more like a human pimple--with a white head in the center.  Feces is long and stringy after feeding.
     3 treatments of penicillin have helped reduce the ragged fins and the pimple somewhat, but not completely.
    Should I try freshwater dip or some other treatment?
<Should have been done first, in transit to quarantine...>
    I tried to take a pic of the fish, but it wouldn't cooperate for 30 min so I gave up.  The eye didn't look like anything I could find and the symptoms didn't quite fit any disease chart: http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/diseases.html
    Thanks for your time,
rob
<Time to read... and supply similar categories of information as provided by others... here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm
Tests, maintenance routine, set-up, feeding... No hypochondria please. Bob Fenner>

Re: Is My Ich Problem Solved  3/19/07
Last question for a while...I hope. Do I need to take out my Green Brittle Star, 3 Cleaner Shrimp or 5 Peppermint Shrimp for the tank to be "fallow."
<No... Please read...>
Thanks again.  I'm looking forward to getting back to you with the good news once I knock this out.
Carl
<Here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm
BobF>

Marine Ich appears after 5 months... it never left. Iatrogenic problems with a mis-stocked SW system, 'tude.     3/14/07
I have had a very "happy" FOWLR tank for about the last five months. 75 Gal. 90 # Live rock, 1.023 SG, Temp 76.5, PH 8.4, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 10 nitrate. 20 gal. water change every 2 weeks.
1-2" Clown Trigger, 1-2" Picasso Trigger, 2-1" Percula Clown, 1-2-1/2" Dwarf Lion, 1-3" Foxface, 1-2" Flame Angel, 1-1" Chromis, 1-3" Heniochus (sp) 1 Sand Sifting Star 3 Hermit crabs, all get along extremely well.
<For now... this is an incompatible (high stress, getting higher) mix... the triggers will chew the Lion, the invert.s soon... ultimately... one fish will be left here...>
A little overloaded I am sure, but anyhow,
<... but anyhow?>
all of a sudden the two triggers, and Heniochus (sp) are showing signs of Itch, along with what seems to be a "slightly less case" on the Flame Angel and Fox, no signs on the Clown fish, Chromes or Dwarf Lion.
<.....>
Why all of a sudden would this appear after five months? All fish are quarantined for 8 weeks before introduction into the main tank.
<.... in a word, stress>
What would my best course of treatment be? I would like to try hyper-salinity and raising the temperature. I would really like to shy away from chemicals due to the biological filter. The quarantine tank that I have is only 10 gallons and will not hold all fish adequately.
Any suggestions other then the hyper-salinity and temperature rise in the tank. Would a Formalin treatment in the main tank affect the biological filter?
Please advise.  
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm
and the linked files above where you lead yourself. Bob Fenner>

What a Freah <Fresh> Water Dip?   2/23/07
<Greetings!>
What is a freash water dip? Is it when you put a fish in freash water?
<It is a pH adjusted fresh water bath used to assist in the treatment and prevention of parasitic disease seen in marine fish.
Please read more here:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm  Hope that helps, Mich>

Pupfish problem 2/17... actually... What species of fish is this?  2/18/07
Hi Bob,
     I was doing some research on the internet on refugiums, trying to understand the plumbing portion when I noticed some movement from my pupfish tank.  One of my males was swimming erratically.  By the time I found my flashlight and got back he was laying on his side.  It was the same one three days ago who I saw swimming erratically.  I caught him easily with a net (not a good sign) and placed him in a small breeder tank within the main tank.   I observed him for a few days.  He ate well.  Did not swim erratically any more and appeared to be okay.  So I put him back in the tank this morning.  I observed him during feeding and throughout the day and being hard to pick out, all the males appeared to be acting normally.  The male that died tonight had a faint pinkish red area on the top left side of his head, just above his left eye and I had noticed it the other day as well when I placed him in the breeder tank.  The appearance was as if there was blood under the skin. Secondly, the female pupfish I sent a picture with the tumor on her cheek, now has a second one on her tail.  The tumor on her cheek has grown a bit more.  She is still active and eating.  Thirdly, the three month old pupfish I still have in a breeder tank within the main tank was born with only one eye, his left eye is just a silver spot that moves. But other than that he appears to be okay.  A few months ago after I rebuilt a portion of my desk to brace with 2x3's I moved the pupfish to a quarantine tank while moving the main tank to its new location.  I took the opportunity to treat the fish for 5 days with Instant Ocean Lifeguard.
<Thought this was a Jungle product... many such being changed by co.s owning multiple businesses>
The female pupfish (the one that now has a tumors) at that time had a small reddish spot on her lip and one of the males had a reddish bruise spot near his fin.  I thought she may have been stung by one of the two Aiptasia I found while moving the rock from the tank.
<?! These are Cyprinodontids? Being kept in a totally marine system? We are confused...>
The male I thought was probably bruised in a tussle with another male but nothing serious.  I had seen bruise spots a couple times on the males before, and it always went away.  They both recovered nicely at the time.  
     I took these fish from deplorable water conditions that they had been in for several months...
<The real, root problem here, little doubt>
a tank that was never cleaned of food or debris, the water never changed, only topped off, tinged brown and reeked of cigarette smoke, the lights were rarely turned on.  Even though I've been taking good care of them, do you think that all the time they spent in those poor conditions it may have damaged them internally to only show up as various illnesses in the future that may not be treatable?  The water parameters are good: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrates, salinity 1/022.  One of my Cerith snails laid eggs all over the glass, snails & hermits all appear well.  Thanks,  Debbie
<Deb... what species is this? Likely nothing more than providing optimized, stable conditions... perhaps food supplementation... will improve health here. Bob Fenner>

I looked everywhere! (But did you look here?) Lymph? 2/14/07
I'm sorry I've searched and searched for two days now and I have not found an article on this.  
<Relax. Until the internet works like the computer on NCC-1701d then we'll have to learn to search with text more efficiently. The info *IS* out there, but you have to sometimes trick the WWW to couch it up.>
I have a 55 gal salt water tank with a DSB of about 4' and almost 100lbs of live rock.  It has two softs corals in there that are thriving and have been for a little over a year now (umbrella leather and a green star polyp that is spreading like crazy), I recently added 3 green Chromis and 2 sand sifting stars about 3 wks ago they're fine and then about a week and half ago a coral beauty, 4 baby ocellaris clownfish, 2 Hawaiian feather dusters, and 3 reef hermit crabs, and a flame scallop.  
<This is a lot of livestock to add all at once! Slow down, and implement a QT here. I have a feeling this is where this is going, right?>
All the fish and inverts have been doing really well, very active and eating fine.  About 3 days ago I noticed one of the baby ocellaris has a big white pimple looking thing right under his lip....  Obviously fish shouldn't be getting cold sores, j/k no but I know it's not ich it's much too large and it protrudes from his face!  He is very active still and eats very heartily and the spot/wart/pimple is circular and uniform not cauliflower looking or cottonish looking at all.  Then I noticed a small spot on his side yesterday and then today now he looks kind of ragged which is why I'm worried now the edges of all his fins look a little frayed.  He is still eating and active but I also noticed the other baby ocellaris seem to be picking on him a little today.  Should I get the qt set up and throw him in and treat him I don't even know what it is I've been looking all over the internet and this site as well and i just don't know if I'm overlooking it since I'm so inexperienced.  
<I think you may be missing some basic precepts of marine fish-keeping here.
1) The quarantine tank - INVALUABLE
2) Proper research before selection of livestock
3) Gradual placement of animals except when addition of multiples is to avoid aggression/territoriality
These are important practices, but they are all shadowed by the very basic need for all aquarists to READ as much as possible. Now that you've been properly chastised, I will try to answer your question, or rather, point you to the information I think you may be in need of here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lymphfaqs.htm .
I hesitate to make a diagnosis sight-unseen, so I will just let you read through this and leave with one final thought. Nutrition (or lack thereof) and stress play a major role in the health of our captive species. Without the nutrition in the form of varied and diverse diet (supplemented with vitamins and other essentials...) and a the proper stress-free environment without a pecking-order to constantly harry them, our fish will always suffer. Please send back a reply with a picture, if you can.
-GrahamT>
Thank you for any help,
Shawn

Re: I looked everywhere! (But did you look here?) pt.2 2/14/07  Lymph f' prev.    02/17/07
Hi Graham,
Thanks for the response.  Yes I know the qt is invaluable however, I recently moved hence the reason it is buried in a box somewhere where I cannot reach it and my bf is being lazy as usual so it probably will not see the light of day for at least another month.  I was told at several LFS that the Kordon rid ich was coral safe and could be used when adding new livestock.  
<The point is moot, IMO. You should never use any medications in your main tank. Rid-ich is best used as a dip/or treatment in a QT. A useful guide can be found here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/malachitegreen.htm ...and as BobF points out there, copper is a safer (relatively anyway) to use.>
So I figured that would help with any parasites or ich, however, yes I know you should never use that stuff around corals even if it says you can and I will have to put in a charcoal filter to remove it from the system.  
<Oh, no. Don't use this in your main system. Lazy bf or no, you need to set up that system and forget about using any Malachite green in your display. You are aware of the nitrifying-bacteria-killing properties of M.G., right?>
I had also read on couple other sites that the fish should be introduced at the same time to avoid any territorial aggression.  
<Yes, in cases where you are worried about aggression, can be the only way to successfully introduce certain tankmates.>
As for the addition of all the inverts at the same time no excuse for that at all.  Anyhow I did see that link prior to writing and it doesn't look like that at all and he is not presenting any of the other symptoms those other fish are presenting with that lymphocytes.  The LFS I purch him from said it's not contagious to the other stores and if I wanted I could take him out of the water and just pluck it off!  
<Could, is what would happen in the wild, what with cleaner wrasses, shrimps, etc.>
I think that sounds a little rash as I don't want to stress him out and kill him plus if I pluck it off that doesn't seem like a permanent fix for the problem.  It's not cauliflower looking at all it's circular and round it looks like a pimple or a wart plus the ragged edges of his fins worries me.  
<Sounds like a cyst to me, or a infection from fighting? I would start treatment with a FW dip and subsequent isolation in the QT.>
He is still very very active hence the reason there is no pic attached to this reply.  
<Cysts are sometimes completely unheeded by the host...>
If you have any tips on getting a pic of fish in the aquarium I could use it bc he will not sit still for a second and I have a digital camera that is not good in action shots.  
<Most digi-cams can take shots at various shutter-speeds, but some only switch between them when prompted. Either way, I would try holding food to entice it, and have a helper snap a few shots.>
OH as for diet I am feeding him a reef flake, it's a bulk one from the LFS and in the AM some dried Hikari brine shrimp and PM some Hikari bio pure frozen Mysis shrimp with supplements in it.  
<Would consider a more varied diet than this. I know, it's a lot of food to have at once, and some will most likely spoil or get freezer burn etc., but their dietary needs are more diverse than we choose to acknowledge, sometimes.>
I have a wet dry system and a protein skimmer.  I have checked the ph, salinity etc... and everything is optimal according to my test kit.  
<Numbers are more important than adjectives here, but many problems *can* have little to do with the system quality.>
All the other fish are doing great still and all the inverts are fine except one of the feather dusters hardly ever comes out, the other one is always out and doesn't even seem to mind if you shift him but the one that is fussy about being out darts in even if you just walk by the tank and you're only 4 ft away from it so I'm hoping that one is just oversensitive.  I don't know if I'm overlooking any other information that could help.  Sorry this was such a long winded response.
<Understood. Dig out the QT, sit and stare at you buddy whilst contriving a plan to photo him/her. You might try plugging in any descriptive words on your malady you can think of into our Google search. Remember, active fishes are usually happy fishes. Usually.
-GrahamT
Shawn

Help with Parasites!!!!!!, Grammar   12/21/06
hello I have 120 gallon fish/reef setup and the fish have parasites close to there gills there is like a diagonal line that goes all the way across their body ]
<Evidence of lateralis system neuromast degeneration (aka HLLE disease)... environmental most likely...>
this is the livestock currently
1 Sailfin tang
1 Naso tang
1 blue tang
1 imperator angel Juv
1 coral beauty angel
2 fire gobies
1 scooter blenny
1 cleaner wrasse
a ton of cone snails
2cleaner shrimp
1 finger leather
1 Sandsifter star
1 serpent star
green button polyps
and a bulb anemone with a maroon clown right now iam currently treating my tank with chem-Marin stop parasites
<Worthless>
I was just wondering if I take the fish out and treat them with copper meds are they likely to get sick again after I have treated them with the copper meds I need some help here to get rid of the parasites in my display tank thank you for the help if you can
Kris Artz
<Your help is to be found in using your spelling and grammar checkers... Normally I'd return such poor English back to the sender... But to save time, hopefully your livestock, will encourage you here/now to read re the Compatibility, Systems of all the organisms listed above (you have a poor mix...), review your system set-up and maintenance procedures (you offer nothing re water quality...), and consider what the root cause/s of your induced problems may be here... and solve them... The environment my friend... fix this and save your animals. Read. Bob Fenner>

Please help ich or bacterial infection Fish dying! Mis- over-stocking, Study and the high price of not-knowing   11/30/06
Recently attempted to introduce fish to a newly cycled 29 gallon tank,
(.05ppm ammonia, 0 nitrite, 10ppm nitrate, ph 8.2, salinity 1.023, temp 80).
First introduced percula clown, angel,
<... this is too small a volume for a Pomacanthid>
anemone,
<... not easily kept>
and 2 snails. No qt tank, new to hobby.
<You'll learn... are learning>
Clown died within 24 hrs LFS gave another
<...>
and died within 18 hrs. Once this happened LFS stated some people not able to keep clowns, no longer going to LFS after comment.
<I won't disagree>
Angelfish arrived with Popeye and within days started losing color (large white blotches) on side of Popeye. After about two days angelfish getting worse and stays over the aeration bubbles on side of white blotches. Brooklynella was my gut instinct started my qt tank and freshwater dipped angel, using formalin (Ich Cure)
<Toxic... biocide... killed your bio-filter no doubt>
and antibiotic (K-mycin). Seemed to be doing better 2 days later getting worse. Contacted LFS (regretfully) for some relief suggested some antibiotics he has into main tank. Reading your FAQs this is no-no with inverts.
<Yep>
  Now the yellow tang
<? Not listed above... too small a volume...>
has developed brown spot around 1/4 inch behind gill and is hanging over aeration like the angel is, moved him to qt.
<Actually now a treatment tank. Different>
Main tank is now fallow and will continue this for as long as you suggest.
<Posted on WWM>
Major concerns.
-Is this Brooklynella, if not what
<Can't tell from here... but not likely... could have been on/with the Clown... but all the symptoms mentioned are likely "environmental" etiologically>
-How to keep newly setup qt (not cycled) levels in check while fish are present
<Posted...>
-Formalin instructions given from product are to add to water (2drops per gallon) how many to dip in 2gal
<You'd do well to read on WWM re Formalin>
-Are some antibiotics safe for bio systems and inverts/anemones for the main tank
<Mmm, not really... the secondary, tertiary effects are too hard on them>
-Main tank how to insure no disease/ich and anything else not present -Someone wishes to give me quite a few fish from their tank they are selling, around four, when is it safe to put in main tank ASAP, should I quarantine in another tank before, even though they have been established in this tank for years
Thank you
Desperate
<Dear D... keep reading. You don't want more such disasters... Easily preventable/avoidable with a bit of learning, understanding. Bob Fenner>

Re: Disease refractory to treatment   12/4/06
the nucleus was indistinct and seems to fill most of the cytoplasm.
<Odd...>
I did not see any nucleoli.
The organism was oval with no clear differences on its two ends (not flattened or pointed, and no flagellae).
Although I could not see them, their appeared to be a halo of cilia around the entire perimeter.
The organisms seemed flattened as those on their sides looked tubular.
How long does Brooklynella live off of a fish?
<Variable... days to a couple of weeks>
Since I have moved everything out of the main tank but these two fish, I would prefer to administer treatment there, to eradicate any Brooklynella in
the tank/sump. Do you recommend against that?
<Mmm... as in a bio-cide like Formalin or bleach? I do recommend this>
Is setting up non-infested additional tanks necessary, or can re-infection be blocked with a prolonged bath (Metronidazole)?
<No>
What concentration of Metronidazole is best?
<Posted on WWM...>
thanks,
Sam
<Welcome. RMF>

Re: FW: Disease refractory to treatment   12/4/06
Is setting up non-infested additional tanks necessary, or can re-infection be blocked with a prolonged bath (Metronidazole)?
<No>
"no" to the necessity of the tanks or "no" to the effectiveness of Metronidazole?
<The latter. Not efficacious. BobF>

New Tank of Death 11/21/06
Dear Crew,
<Hi>
I am an absolute beginner to this hobby and I started my 12 gallon tank three months ago with a few small clownfish added during the next couple days.  <Very tough way to start, 12G is hard to keep stable and at most will support a single fish with lots of effort.> Then three weeks later I had a full scale white spot attack on all the fish which I suspected was ich. <Probably.> After the death of all fish, I thoroughly cleaned everything with fresh water including replacing the gravel with new ones. The following week, I started to put fish, in particular clownfish, back to the tank and then the death cycle began.
<Not surprised.  You did not cycle the tank.>
Nowadays, fish in my tank will die in either one of the two ways. First is within 24 hours after bought from the local fish store. Second, which is a more frequent event, live happily for two weeks and then die in the third week.  So far I have no fish that can survive this death cycle and my tank is empty every three weeks.
<Environmental issue with possible pathogen thrown in on top.>
I have checked my tank statistics and they all look fine. <Define "fine".> I change water every week and maintain a stable temperature. <Good.>  When the fish die, they die with various symptoms including cloudy eyes and/or very tiny white spots.
But sometimes, some die absolutely without any symptoms ¡V one minute is swimming happily, next minute is dead.
<Yep, too much too fast too soon.>
I sincerely hope that you guys can offer me some advice to solve my problem before I have to give this up completely as the experience so far has cost me great deal of frustration, despair, sadness (it is very sad to see them die one after the others), time and money.
By the way, I have tried using Copper for white spots and fresh water dips too but they still die in the three weeks cycle.
<Needs to be administered in a hospital/QT tank, not the main tank.>
Best regards,
ML
Hong Kong
<Time to go back to the beginning.  Start here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nanoreefsysart.htm and the rest of WetWeb for more.>
<Chris>