Auto top off... both fresh and salt both  - 11/13/06
Hello,
Many thanks to you at WWM for answering all kinds of questions from viewers on all topics. It has personally helped me greatly in setting up my store.
<Welcome>
Now that I am set up and actually selling fish (yay!), I have a dilemma I can't seem to locate an answer in a format I can comprehend. It deals with an auto top off system.
This is for a retail saltwater fish system that loses freshwater water daily (due to evaporation), and we sell fish (and therefore saltwater) from the same system too.
<Okay>
Every day I lose about 20 gallons of freshwater due to evaporation (500 gallon system, 30 tanks, central plumbing), in addition to using about 1/2 gallon of system (salt) water for every fish sold.
<! This is a lot of bagged water for sure>
Of course one day we might sell 2 fish (=1 gallon of saltwater) and one day we might sell 20 fish (=10 gallons of saltwater)
Here's the dilemma... I can't seem to figure out how to set up (or what to purchase) to keep the system topped off to the correct specific gravity automatically. I currently use an ATO for my freshwater fish system, but that's limited to freshwater only so no problems there.
<A few possibilities>
For the saltwater system, it's not the same. If I sell no fish and just evaporate, I fill with freshwater only to correct the SG. If I sell fish, I'm fooling like crazy at the end of a couple days adding some freshwater (for the evaporation part) and some saltwater ( for the fish sold part), and guessing at getting the specific gravity balanced trying to estimate how much water we "sold" that day, to keep the SG balanced. (for reference, the sump is 150 gallons, so daily top off isn't mandatory, but after 2 days I definitely have to refill it)
For reference, I have a 150g saltwater container ready at all times in a separate container, as well as a container of RO freshwater.
Any help would be so greatly appreciated. I can't imagine I'm the only one with this situation, but I am completely stumped here in figuring this out.
Sincerely,
Rich
<Mmm... you need two such reservoirs... one for "just" freshwater, the other as you already have installed... and some meters For the change in specific gravity/salinity: (conductivity likely, but there are TDS, salinity... that will work) that will deliver (through their linking to/with an electro-magnetic switch (solenoid) drive/valve to add freshwater when this value changes appreciably... For the new seawater level, a more simple float valve will do... Such gear can be purchased directly from companies or wholesalers/etailers in the trade... like Quality Marine, All Seas (not a dot com) MarineDepot, CustomAquatic (.coms). Bob Fenner>

LFS business? Centralized filtration holding systems   7/6/06
        I am in the process of starting a pet store. I'm looking at having around 300 20 gallon long tanks. My question for you is: how would you go about filtering the tanks?
<Mmm, definitely through centralized, recirculating systems, sumps for collective processing, automated make-up...>
A drain on the back of the tanks?
<This or the bottoms>
Is there anywhere on the web or in publication explaining this?
<Mmm, a few places. Maybe start here on WWM: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/cntfiltbiz.htm
and the linked files above...>
I want a fresh water and a salt water central filtration system.
<Mmm, need more than this/these... at least a fish and non-fish marine... perhaps a hard-alkaline fresh and softer-acidic fresh... maybe some separate, more specialized systems for the likes of Discus, Brackish, Goldfish and Koi...>
I just want open tanks, not the Dutch systems or whatever PetLand or pet supplies plus uses. Any direction you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.   
  Bill Blakeman
<Keep looking around Bill... there are a few good options for gear here... some DIY that are cheaper... Perhaps seeking out folks in your area that have actually done these installs would help you shortcut to plans, possibilities. Bob Fenner>

Need information. LFS Central Filtration Help   5/25/06
Hi,
I am in the process of starting a marine aquarium .store  I was  reading you article on centralized filtering systems. You made reference to PSM/PPN  Buyers Guide Directory, Where do I get this directory
<Here: http://fancypublications.com/corporate/Products.asp>
or who should I call to  help me design a filter system?  
<... a few possibilities... there are companies that "do this"... SeaClear, RK2... but most folks do it themselves with some more local help...>
I am based in Tampa
Regards,
Frank Vegliante
<Best for you to read a bit re... make up your own mind re the components, their arrangement... look to fit in what size space you have, are likely to have... Install yourself. Having others do this will cost a bunch more, perhaps get you things you don't want, need, nor know how to take care of. Bob Fenner>

Re: Multi Tank Systems, Size does Matter   2/2/06
Maybe I should ask another question.
<Okay.>
I am not set upon the size of the new tank, I could go larger.
<As cliché as it sounds, the bigger the better.>
  I just thought that those sizes would be about right for the three fish...lunare wrasse, snowflake eel, dwarf lion in a FO system.
<It would probably be okay but that tanks size is about bare minimum, absolutely no lee-way room (no more fish).>
Please correct me if I am wrong, what would you recommend for minimum tank size?
<I would rather see something with more surface area than a 90, something in 125 range possibly.>
Thanks!
<Anytime, Adam J.>

Aquarium business   1/20/06
Dear WWM crew, <Yes>
I am looking to eventually start a fish store in or around Long Beach CA and go a bit nuts with ideas about a store, even though I still need to complete
a solid business plan. So that brings me to an aspect of the setup of the display systems. I would like to have at least 3 display "systems" for
livestock, each which may contain one or more subsystem (i.e. maybe saltwater  system contains 2 subsystems one for corals and other reef safe
critters and fish and one for the big messy predatory fish). So here goes:
1) Fresh - acidic/soft water system for south American species (mostly discus and South American cichlids)
2) Fresh - alkaline/hard water system for African cichlids
3) Marine - self explanatory, possibly the 2 "subsystems" listed above
So in your opinion, how crazy do I need to be with regards to keeping all these subsystems segregated by specie needs rather than the physical
location and or limits in pumping ability etc? <Mmm, definitely not crazy. RMF>> I would like to do that best for the fish and keep the fish in an environment as close as possible to the
natural environment. I know too many pet stores that keep fish in environments not suited for them for the sake of ease. I would like to gain
the reputation as someone who cares, because in fact, I do. Besides that, I am all about DIY. Is it worth constructing my own filtration
system, shelving, and plumbing etc for each system or is it more cost effective to purchase the display setups a lot of the acrylic manufactures
produce. Also, I thought about running some of the filters  in  some "primer" systems to try to get a head start in the production of bacteria to
speed up the cycling process once I get ready to open the shop. Maybe I am nuts, so feel free to tell me so if need be. Thanks in advance for your
help. <Paul, lets start by reading the link I've pasted.  I think many if not all of your questions will be answered here.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm  Good luck.  James (Salty Dog)>
-Paul

Marineland banks in my store...Trouble..  10/3/05
HI all, I recently (February 05) bought a LFS, It has 26 (4) foot Marineland (mars) systems in it. Half are fresh the other are salt. The problem is that even with the recommended daily, weekly maintenance that they (Marineland) recommend I am suffering a great number of losses in my saltwater systems. (over 1000.00 last month)
<Mmm, might be your livestock source/s, your acclimation protocol... but I am not a fan of these holding systems... too feeble filtration wise, not easily improved...>
I have tried everything they (Marineland) recommended (new uv lights, CopperSafe, frequent pad changes, etc, etc). I have been keeping reefs for over 15 years very successfully,
<Stores... are very different... as you're finding out>
I currently have a 300 gallon reef in my store that has every kind of coral in it you can imagine including Goniopora and elegance that are both reproducing and have been for over two years, along with reproducing pipefish on a regular basis. So I am no beginner to keeping things alive, but these systems have me a wits end. So this last week I finally got fed up with them and began the 3 day task of replumbing them to a central sump, now this is where I need some advice, I am using a couple of 150 gallon Rubbermaid horse troughs for the sumps. The reason That I replumbed them is that I don't think that there was "enough" biological media for the constantly changing fish loads.
<I agree>
What could I use as a very large and stable biofilter?
<The best... a fluidized bed... but a good deal of substrate (if you're not running copper) or plastic media will do>
I am considering wool and DLS material wound tightly together in the new "sumps" to create this biofilter. Is there something you would recommend other than this?
<Yes... the above... what you propose create their own problems... of nutrient accumulation, its ill effects>
I am hoping to keep as much life as possible in these systems, I would love to be able to keep snails and crabs in these banks as well as fish, I am currently transshipping my fish and corals. The people I ship through have recommended that I use "QuickCure" in my systems on a Saturday so it will stabilize my systems before my shipment arrives on Mondays,
<Formalin and copper... dangerous, toxic...>
But I am wondering if this QuickCure is "safe" to use in a system like I have setup,
<If too much... will kill your filters, livestock>
I am pretty sure if I use this method I can't have inverts because of the chemical makeup of the quick cure, But it will help the fish correct?
<Mmm, possibly... how to put this... humans used to treat themselves with mercuricals, arsenicals... was toxic to them, but hopefully more toxic to what they wanted to be rid of>
Also could I put liverock in the sumps to help with the bioload?
<... not with copper, or copper/Formalin, no>
I assume not if I use the QuickCure. Is there something out there I can use that is safe for inverts as well as treat the fish I receive for disease?
<No>
Sorry for all of the questions but I am just a poor hobbyist who has put his entire life savings into following his dream of owning a LFS. I am in need of some sound advice from a non commissioned third party with the same passion for aquatic life...Thanks
<Do you have an equity partner who is "there", on the floor? I would get one... quick... so you can invest some time learning the trade (perhaps by traveling, visiting wholesalers of livestock)... There are sections on WWM re retail, and elements like "Guerilla Acclimation" that you should read, take to heart... QUICKLY! I realize it is difficult (with day to day, moment to moment work, crises...) but you need to rid your systems of the problems they have (inherently, like the filtration... I would add substantial UV here... and a strong protocol for net, specimen container sterilization between uses...), and the infested systems as they exist (likely systematically coppering... or if more practical, bleaching/nuking and starting over... by section), and prevent new troubles (by careful buying, dip/baths, acclimation)... Not easy to do, but absolutely necessary if you're to stay in business. Look to "better suppliers" if you have doubts on this part of the equation... Quality Marine, Sea Dwelling Creatures, Underwater World... to name a few LA outfits. Bob Fenner>

Retail Fish-Only Tank And Nitrates - 05/28/05
I have a fish only tank, 150 gal. with a 2" CaribSea sand bed, PM Bullet 2 skimmer, and T5 lighting, heavily stocked. What can I do to keep my nitrates down? This tank holds fish for retail so I want to keep the conditions as best as possible.
<<Mmm...gonna make a couple assumptions here. Since this is a retail sales display, reducing the stocking level is probably not going to happen, and for the same reason, adding a quantity of live rock is also not feasible (makes it too difficult to catch the fish). Depending on the grain size of the substrate in this tank and the fact that it is only 2" deep, as well as you stating the tank is "heavily stocked," I suspect this to be a large part of your problem. So...my first recommendation would be to remove the substrate to allow you to easily siphon out (weekly) accumulated detritus. Else, increase the depth of the sand bed to a minimum 4" (6" would be better) and employ DSB methodology to help with the nitrates. A simple keyword search on this site will yield much info on deep sand beds (DSB)...as well as on nitrate reduction for that matter. The addition of a sump packed with live rock and/or a vegetable refugium with a DSB, along with very frequent large partial water changes, will also help keep nitrates down.>>
Should I use a denitrator coil?
<<I don't have any first-hand experience with these, but my research on them in the past has shown them to be "fiddly" to get/keep working effectively and thus I choose alternate methods for nitrate reduction.>>
I do not know where to find a good set of plans to make one!
<<Really? A simple GOOGLE search yields lots of possibilities. A good place to start is ozreef.org>>
Or is there a better suggestion that you would have?
<<Yes, as stated previously.>>
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
<<Regards, Eric R.>>

Retrofitting A Large System
Greetings friends at WWM!
<Hi there! Scott F. here today!>
I have a couple of issues I was hoping to get some help with. The first is a fish health issue. I own a pet store, and recently we have had a major fish loss epidemic. The two systems in question are 200g tanks (DAS). One unit is 2 75g open tanks, 50g sump; the other is a 75, 15, and 2 30's with 50g sump. I am not sure if you are familiar with the DAS systems, but we are using the stock filtration and skimmers. 
These are two fish only systems, with a couple inches of sand fake corals and maybe 75 or so lbs of "reef" (dead) rock dispersed in each 200g unit. pH varies slightly always above 8.0. Ammonia and nitrites are nonexistent at all times. Nitrates stay at around 10ppm. One of the tanks was treated with copper about a month ago, which we removed with Purigen after we killed the ich. 
We use carbon constantly, and do a 10% weekly water change with RO/DI water. We buy from Quality Marine, and SDC primarily. We buy more expensive higher quality stock from "good" seas whenever possible. We presently have no QT system. We freshwater dip all fish that come in.
<Sounds like good procedure; a quarantine system would really take things to the next level!>
Our reef tanks, and other invert tanks have been doing phenomenally (better than ever really).
So the problem is this: 
In the past 10 days we have lost the following fish - Longnose Butterfly, Pinstripe Wrasse, Copperband Butterfly, Naso Tang, Lemonpeel Angel, Raccoon Butterfly, Auriga Butterfly, Regal Angel (RS), Lawnmower Blenny, Watchman Goby, 5 Lyretail Anthias, Thornyback Cowfish, Red Coris Wrasse - give or take, that's what I can think of off the top of my head.
<Horrible to hear.>
75% of these fish have been fat, eating, healthy and (relatively) longstanding citizens until the night that they died. There have been three bouts of death, where we lost 4-6 fish dispersed amongst the individual tanks overnight. Several of them had rather odd marks on their bodies before or after death. The Naso had large black splotches that showed up the evening before he died. The Lemonpeel had a swollen mouth, that looked kind of bruised. Many of them in their death looked oddly bruised. 
I would blame it on foul play without a second thought if there was anybody left to point the finger to. Survivors include: a 2.5" Flame Hawk, a 3" Longnose Hawk, a 1.5" Porkfish, a 3" Xanthopterus Tang, 3" Vlamingi Tang, and a Lizard Blenny. Within this same time period we have had a really nasty Cyano outbreak as well, for what that's worth. I'm at a loss...and appreciate your input!
<Wow...really hard to say. The rapidity with which these deaths came about makes me think that we may be looking at some sort of very virulent parasitic disease. The other thought would be some sort of environmental lapse, but it seems odd that such a large cross-section of relatively hardy fishes would be affected. The same goes for some sort of poisoning episode...Why would only a few fishes perish? I guess the other angle to take is to look at the source of the fish. Were they all from the same wholesaler? did they all arrive about the same time? Did any customers report similar rapid deaths of fishes during this same period of time? Unfortunately, you're going to have to ask yourself a lot of questions to get some good leads on this one...>
Second on the agenda. I have a customer with a 300g tank that I am taking over for them. The tank is now sitting fallow while we let ich die out, but they are patiently waiting for me to "make their tank beautiful". The husband likes oddball fish, and the wife wants a reef. They are paying me for a monthly to maintain it for them, and I REALLY want to put together something that works for them. I have never had any practical experience with a tank of this size, aside from when I pulled out all their fish.
<That's not a fun experience at all, huh?>
Right now they have standard fluorescent lighting, 100 lbs of dead rock, 80 lbs of live rock, a modified UG filter that is drained into a Red Sea canister. It's acrylic, stand and canopy included. I pulled out a dozen or so Damsels, a mean Wrasse, and a few other fish that managed to survive their reign of terror. They said they spent 15 grand on their setup at their LFS (rip-off?).
<For a 1970's-1980's type filtration system and fluorescent lighting, I'd say that they may have overpaid somewhat!>
They have given me a no-limit clause. No price is too high to pay for beauty, so as long as what I'm doing is necessary...just do it and send them the bill. I really don't want to take advantage of them, and I really want to make sure that whatever I do is really the best thing for them. I have only been doing salt for a year and a half, and reef for a year. I read a LOT, and deal with many many tanks so I have a lot of progressive experience, but I still feel rather limited in my capabilities.
<Well, coming here is a good start! As you are aware, we have a lot of great information on marine/reef keeping here. I think I would start by re-assessing the equipment in the system and seeing what is truly effective. If your goal is to have a mixed fish/invert system, I'd shy away from the mechanical/UG filter setup and consider a simple sump-based system, with an excellent protein skimmer. A refugium is optional, but would be a nice feature. Better lighting is in order, too. I think that you really need to sit down with the client and find out exactly the kinds of animals that they want, and design and retrofit the system accordingly. They also need to be aware that a pretty reef-type system does not happen overnight; it takes months and years to grow into something truly amazing. As you are no doubt aware, it's not possible to simply dump tons of money into a system and expect a world-class system overnight. It takes time. patience, and dedication.>
Can a reef be maintained long term with only once a month for heavy duty maintenance/water changes?
<It can, but you need to pay careful attention to stocking and daily husbandry, such as feeding, etc.>
If so, what kind of corals would be most conducive to success and beauty on that scale?
<There are so many to choose from that I can't even begin to name them here. I suppose that soft corals, such as Sarcophyton, Sinularia and the like would be a hardy bunch to start with. Do some more reading, both here and in texts like Eric Borneman's "Aquarium Corals" and Anthony Calfo's "Book of Coral Propagation">
With the tank filled, and maybe 2.5" between it and the wall...any super secrets to increasing water flow without using powerheads or moving the tank?
<A manifold-type return system from a closed loop might fill the bill. There are other methods, such as using devices such as Sea Swirls to oscillate the return flow, or even external powerheads, such as Tunze Turbelles, which move huge volumes of water with little electrical consumption and minimum aesthetic compromise.>
The UG/Red Sea canister combo seems quite crafty to me...but I don't know about function. There is a LOT of particulate matter casually drifting around the tank.
<Sounds like it may not have been the optimal size for the system, or perhaps husbandry was not top-notch in this system. You'd be surprised how efficiently sump-based systems can remove suspended matter through simple settling within the sump, or with minor prefiltration features. Do read up on this.>
Should I utilize the available plumbing for a sump, skimmer, fuge, or closed loop?
<Obviously, you want to optimize what is there to save your client money, but you may need to do serious re-vamping of the system to make sure that everything is appropriate for the animals that your client intends to keep.>
I will leave it at that for now...there will be more to come in the near future no doubt. Thanks for your help :)
Scott Johnson
Critter Cabana
<MY pleasure, Scott. Sorry I couldn't give you absolute answers in this space, but I hope that some of the basic concepts that we touched on will be of use to your client. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.> 

System for Fish at new facility
Hi Crew
<JD>
I just moved to a new, larger facility here in Jakarta, and have some concerns over my fish system.
<Okay>
I sell local Indonesian fish, which are notorious for disease, purely to bring in customers.
<Understood>
My main line of fish however, are imports.  I hold the only valid license for Indonesia, and receive shipments from Brazil and Red Sea once a month, and Hawaii twice a month.  Most of these fish are then passed on to 2 wholesalers who distribute to a few selected shops. The rest I keep for retail.
<Sounds good>
I think I may have tried to be too clever when building my system for fish, and might even have overdone it.
I have 60 tanks, which are 4ft by 2ft by 18 inches tall.   These are 3 high  ( 20 racks).   The back 8 inches of each tank,  is full of bioballs, topped with biofoam, and spun Dacron at the top to trap larger debris.
<I do hope you watch your pH, alkalinity with all this>
The water enters the top tank centre (I'm from UK),  quite powerfully, with lots of surface movement.  It then drains through the large trickle filter before becoming the water that feeds the middle tank, then filters again becoming the water for the bottom of the 3 tanks, before filtering again and going to the sump, which is full of crushed coral, biorings, and active carbon.  There is a small skimmer in the sump, but unfortunately not too effective.
So you can picture 20 racks like this side by side, with 60 trickle filters, and 20 sump filters.
<Yes>
I designed this to stop the spread of disease, but in hindsight, and reading several articles regarding centralizing the filtration, I am a bit confused.
<Go ahead>
The waters around Jakarta are not good quality, and there is a lot of bacteria and I am sure, other pests.
<Yes... I have been to Jakarta many times...>
  I get my water from the Seaworld facility, which is known to be the cleanest, but think it is not the premium grade filtered water, but the water after the dolphins have "passed" through it.
<Yes>
My facility for receiving new water is 1500 gallons, which circulates through a sump, which has UV, a reasonable size skimmer, and a Sander 100mg Ozonizer running.
<I would get a much larger Sander's unit... and a dryer for same>
during the day, although the outside temperature is over 30 Celsius,  the open front allows for good circulation,  the water temp is about 28.....however, at night, when closed, with no air circulation, it becomes very hot in there, and the water can rise a couple of degrees overnight.  I am planning to remove the shutters, and replace with some sort  of "bar" gates, to allow better circulation.
<A good idea... you don't want the temperature to vacillate more than one degree C. in any given day... If and when it's not too dear, I would invest money in an evaporative or other type chiller>
I have tested the DO  at 6pp?, and believe it is ok.  The PH is always 8.1 to 8.2, zero Ammonia, and Sg of 1.022 to 24
<Not bad... would be nice to have the water a little higher in DO... 7 ppm... not likely possible at high temp.>
However, I do get outbreaks of whitespot, and occasional velvet.
<I do hope you have adopted, adapted a routine pH-adjusted freshwater dip/bath procedure, pH-adjusted acclimation... for avoiding these twin scourges... Please read on WWM re this issue... Easy to do, and can spell the difference between profitability/sanity and ongoing madness, losses>
A friend of mine who exported fish for many years, tells me I should be joining some of the sumps together, using a bigger skimmer,...and using a "Heater" to keep the water at 30 -31 C  at all times........I need some reassurance on this....even though I tested the DO at 30 to be fine.......
<Mmm, the DO is not 30 assuredly>
The other thing is, the top two tanks have no substrate, but the bottom on has a little crushed coral for the wrasse etc.,....should I remove this ???
<What other source of alkaline reserve do you have? Do you monitor this? Do you sell invertebrates, particularly biomineralizing species? >
To avoid customers' kids putting their hands in the water, and also to prevent jumping of fish, I built a frame for each of the tanks, which is a medium fine plastic mesh, but it is built into aluminium  ...please advise me on the possible effects of the aluminium.( no aluminum over here)  It never touches the water, it is 3 to 4 inches above it.
<Good idea>
I look forward to your suggestions on how I could improve this system.
If I really need to centralize everything, I guess I can, although there would be a little disruption to day to day activities.
regards  JD
<I definitely would centralize your filtration, with large skimmer/s.... Mmm, I would rig a very large one inabouts the large sump... per sub-system if there is more than one. Do read the Business subweb of WWM re such... Bob Fenner>

Re: System for Fish at new facility
Hi Bob
<JD>
Thanks for the reply....there were a few questions in your responses, that I would like to answer, and also a couple of other questions I have. Firstly, regarding the pH and alkalinity...ph is 8.1 - 8.2...confess to not watching the alkalinity....must do that today.......
<Yes... just as important as pH point... is resistance to change/alkalinity... commercially easiest to maintain, bolster with sodium bicarbonate>
Secondly, the 1500 gallon system for my stock water is in 2 x 750 gallon vessels...My supplier here had some problems with the 200mg Sander units...would separating the 2 vessels, and using 2 x 100 Ozonizers be enough..??....what is the "dryer" you mentioned ?? I am unfamiliar with this term.
<You need thousands of milligrams per hour...>
Thirdly, I think I can join the 20 small systems, and make 4 or 5 larger ones....and I can use chillers....I have a design that a friend manufactures for me....can put together 1/2 HP for just over 300 bucks......I keep my outdoor ( covered) coral vats at 25 degrees C.....what is your recommendation for the fish facility, in degrees C..??
<In/about the 25 C. mark>
Next....I meant the DO was ok at 30 Celsius....still reading 6.
<I see, thank you>
regarding Alkaline reserve, there is a lot of crushed coral in each of the sumps, but as I said earlier, I will be having the alkalinity checked in all systems today, and have the appropriate Seachem products in my lab to adjust if necessary.
<Substrate is some containers/holding tanks for particular species is okay (e.g. Opistognathids), but by and large you don't want same in your filter, tank flow path... as it interferes with chemical treatment applications... I take it you're using copper in some format>
I do sell a lot of corals, as I have a share in a good size boat in Sulawesi with a couple of exporter friends, so I get product the local market can't ( or won't) as 3 bucks for an elegance puts them off.....or the fact they can't keep them alive using their cheap Chinese T8 bulbs....please excuse my ignorance and give me an example or 2 of a "biomineralizing invert"
<Stony corals are>
So I guess my exporter friend's "heater" idea was to speed up the lifecycle of nasty things...and keep the temperature stable....and not a solution...please comment.
<This looks like a fair assessment>
To summarize......I need to stabilize the temperature, get the DO to 7, engineer a larger sump system.......and of course spend most of my day searching and learning from your site..( which I often do )
<Good>
I know about the freshwater dip....I will be reading it thoroughly, but I guess be trying to fathom how to adjust the pH down for fish that have come in from overseas after 40+ hours in their bags...the pH is real low in a lot of cases.....then raising it up gradually.....( no mean feat with a few hundred Yellows at a time) I might need a little advice on this, and hope you can spare me a little time at Aquarama.
<Do read over here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acclimat.htm. Esp. the second piece on "Guerilla Acclimation"... something like this should become your S.O.P.>
I won't be importing again until mid June, as I am the only importer, and want to "starve" the market for a while.....so my LD2 comes in...and goes out.  So I guess I have the time to re adjust many aspects of my system.........BTW....next time you plan on coming to Jakarta, you will be made very, very welcome....
<Thank you... am hopeful to make it back out to the Lembah Strait/Bitung side of Manado (Sulawesi) for diving after Aquarama>
I sort of feel a little green, and hope not to be perceived as a pain in the butt.......but without people like you, and the guys on your site, sharing vast knowledge, many hobbyists would give up !!
<Not at all. Am very happy to help you, your business, the trade. Bob F> 

Re: System for Fish at new facility
Hi Bob...thanks again for your reply regarding the ozonizer, and the need for thousands of milligrams.......hmmmm.....it is a 100g ozonizer, so I guess I have 100,000 milligrams, without the aid of a calculator.......if this is not enough too much please advise.
<Man! I've gots to start wearing my glasses... Sorry re>
This is purely for my stock of water and is not connected to the livestock tanks.
<Real good>
As for alkalinity....tested it...and making the adjustments needed today 
<Good... can become a more or less routine item... with X amount added pretty much daily...>
I use a little copper from time to time. If I remove the substrate from the sumps, what is your recommendation to have in the sump, considering that all 3 levels have quite large bio-trickle filters?
<Plastic bio-media of some sort>
Just spent considerable time reading your article on the Guerilla Acclimatization process.....learned a lot from that, but have a few questions......due to the time in transit to Indonesia, even Hawaiian fish are in their bags for 40 hours or more from packing to unpacking, and the pH is in the low 7's. My holding tank water is 8.2....if I trickle my holding water into the ph adjusted water.....how many hours do you think it will need....4, 6, 8 or more?....
<To be clear, I'd use an acid (can be HCl, 3 molar as Muriatic) to temporarily match the incoming bag water pH... aerating this over hours, with drip addition of "normal" pH water will raise the pH to system quality... while allowing the organisms to excrete and secrete ammonia from their bodies...>
as I receive 200 to 500 fish at a time, I will utilize many large vats, so I can separate the species to avoid fighting, etc.
<Yes>
Also....freshwater dips?....When would you advise this?
<On arrival, after acclimation... IF the animals (most fishes, though not all species) look/seem okay, able to take the (added) stress>
Also....I won't be able to find Maracyn or Methylene blue here.....I can however buy Erythromycin over the counter ( strange how a foreigner can buy anything over the counter here ).....is this Erythromycin useable, or likely to have contaminants in it....also what would be your recommended dosage?
<By and large I'd dispense with the use of antibiotics... Much, too much to state here, but Furan compounds can be efficacious in concentrated baths... for some conditions, most fish species. You should be able to locate or import Methylene Blue cheaply>
I have to say Bob....your site has such a vast amount of very useful info, so much indeed, that sometimes I get just a little confused....hence the abundance of questions..
<I understand... and/but have thought long and deeply re how to present this information, ideas, methods... to the intended... and this is the best devised thus far>
As for diving in Lembah....enjoy......wish I could, but I have a large facility that I think will be under renovation just after Aquarama........
regards
JD
<Someday my friend, some day. BobF> 

Re: System for Fish at new facility
Hi Bob...thanks for the swift reply........things are clearer now....except for the plastic bio-media in the sump....the back of all 3 levels has the plastic biofoam and a couple of thousand bioballs.....should I use these porous ceramic rings in the sump?
<You could, but the bioballs should do it here>
....and should I ever use active carbon in there......
<Mmm, maybe... what is your protocol for water quality checking, routine water changing?>
I think that the bio-trickle on each system is large, so could I get away with having only water, and a skimmer in the sump?
JD
<Likely so... along with bolstering pH stability for the fish systems, biomineral content and alkalinity also for the non-fishes. Bob Fenner>

Re: System for Fish at new facility
Thanks once again Bob
<Welcome>
I use a lot of Seachem products for coral tanks and for full fledged systems...
<Good company, products>
We test daily for pH, salinity, 3 times a week for Ammonia, weekly for phosphates and Calcium, as well as Alkalinity.....The test equipment we use is either from LaMotte or Atago
<Very good>
My corals are always in peak condition, it's just the fish husbandry that I needed to brush up on
<I see>
Having read and read your responses, the articles on the site, and the FAQs, I now know a lot more, and will continue to read up very regularly.
Thanks again
JD
<Hope to meet you, get about to see your facility. Bob Fenner> 

Central Filtration Systems
Hello crew, 
<Good Morning>
I just open a store and was having trouble with the nitrite and nitrate. I have use this site to answer a lot of my question in the past, but I have a problem that I can't seem to solve. Well let me tell you a little about the system: it is a saltwater system that have 14 - 50 gallon tanks and a sump of about 300 gallons and right now the parameter are 0 ammonia, .10 nitrite, and nitrate is off the chart, pH is 7.8 KH is 7. 
I am using 3 skimmers not high quality, but works ok. And two 36 watt U.V sterilizer by Tetra. I am currently using a central filtration system that I build. Each tank flows into a 1 1/4 inch piping and flows down to a sump. In the sump I have 500 lbs of live rocks. And the system been up and going for about 2 months. The system seems to be steady right now with the nitrite of .10 and was wondering how I would be able to bring it down to 0. I [was] wondering if it would be better to increase the flow so it would be running really fast or should I slow it down. Right now it is at maximum that the piping can handle. Also I have power heads and air pumps in the sump to circulate the water in a rotating circle (OVAL) shape. If you can help me out that would be great. 
<Mmmm, I'm thinking that the live rock isn't fully cured yet, but I'm sure you would be aware of that. I don't believe changing flow rates will change anything, I would want the most flow if anything. If the rock is cured then I would add some damsels into the system and jump start the system. James (Salty Dog)>
>>Better to use some raw shrimp, cycle fishless - have known some who have used urine to start/spur such.  This will allow for creating maximum nitrifying populations without losing money on the fish.  However, cycling is not the problem here, this has occurred (also, know that the live rock will allow better harbor for parasitic organisms, DIS-allow copper/Formalin treatment should it be necessary - unless we're talking about an invertebrate-only system).  It is my opinion that this is the point at which large water changes are necessary, and you'll need to get the skimmers working their best, improve skimming.  You'll need to plan on future maintenance of this system, treatment for the inevitable outbreaks of disease, live rock will "hold" copper, become dead/base rock instead, re-release such.  MH>>

Central Filtrations systems
Hello Mr. Fenner,
<Travis>
I am thinking about setting up a reef/marine store and have a few questions about the central filtration system. I am still in the
planning stages but I think I have nailed down what kind of tanks I want. I will have ~600 gal SPS, 300 gal clams, 300 gal anemone tank, 600 gal LPS/softies and ~3000 gallons of fish tanks and 300 gallons of fish/invert "cubes". I will be using 4' X 8' 12" tall tanks for the corals and some combination of 8' X 2' X 18" for the fish. Anyway, the real question is can each of these systems use a true central filtration system or should the fish be on there own system?
<Don't know if I'm following your question, but I would definitely have the fish system separate... even though you may well find yourself putting certain groups of fishes (e.g. centriscids, syngnathids, Clownfishes...) in your invert. systems>
Should the SPS be separate from the soft corals and/or anemones as far as filtration goes?
<Yes... I would do this>
Are there any species of fish that would benefit from their own filtration?
<Mmm, actually... yes... but... I would move these into parts of your non-fish systems... this will work itself out in time>
Ideally I would like one system for low cost/maintenance but that may not be feasible.
<It is not... for sure>
Your guidance is appreciated. Any books you can recommend?
Thank you, Travis
<Hard to say w/o knowing you better... there are some engineering, design works whose content you might well benefit from understanding if you don't know the information already... I do hope you have at least one good (equity) partner for your venture... and I do encourage you to read over the materials archived on our Aquatics Business subweb: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm 
I am very glad to see folks coming into the trade, building out new stores. Do proceed carefully, but know that I'm rootin' for you! Bob Fenner>

The Death System! (Not a Lucas Production)
Bob, Anthony, Steve, somebody... please help! I'm a saltwater manager of a
store in Texas and I and my coworkers are at our wit's end. Let me give
you the run down. I've got a marine system run through central filtration
consisting of four large tanks totaling @ 1000 gallons. The idea was to
have a system for larger marine fish like angels, groupers, sharks, etc.
It is filtered through felt bags into a sump, with a six foot tall
Precision Marine protein skimmer, through which I dose ozone with an
Ozotech. I'm also using a 160 watt ASM UV sterilizer. For bio-filtration
I've got a six foot tall fluidized bed and live rock in the tanks and
sump. Two to three hundred gallon water changes are done weekly.
<Sounds good thus far>
Here's my
problem. Almost every "bony" fish I put in this system gets "the funk" and
dies. The funk generally consists of cloudy eyes, white spots, white
patches, gaping mouths, and white body film. Basically every fish within a
week or so, whether they are feeding or not, just starts looking nasty and
dies. And not every fish experiences all these symptoms. It may be just
one or all of the above. However, rays, sharks, and eels all thrive in
these tanks for months at a time, until they sell.
<Good clue here>
Everything else, just
about every other marine fish family, dies. In desperation I looked
through you guys site and found info on dipping, so I began dipping new
fish. I'm using per 5 gallons one oz. Formalin, 8 drops Methylene blue, and 8
drops Stress Coat, and it's worked wonders for fish in my other systems.
Loss dramatically decreased in my other systems, but not this one.
<The "critter" problem is IN this system>
I've
tried antibiotics, antifungals, tropical science marine max, garlic,
kicking, screaming... My other fish only system has the same stats of the
big fish system, about the same amount of water volume, same fish
suppliers, same dipping technique. The only two differences are no ozone
on the other system (this was a problem way before I added ozone), and
occasionally I dose copper, but not often. Typically the copper levels are
below therapeutic levels.
<Must be or the cartilaginous, anguilliform fishes would have trouble. No sense dosing sub-therapeutically.>
I would love to try and properly acclimate all of
these fish in the manner outlined on your site, but I currently don't have
enough time\space to do so. And none of the other systems have their fish
acclimated and I have no problems. I even went so far as to bleach the
whole darn thing and start all over, filters and all.
<Good idea... this is what is done even at collection facilities... in desperation with entrenched biological disease or anomalous problems>
Everything in the
system was brand sparkly new, nothing pre-bleaching even touched the
system. For a few months it was a piscine paradise and then... paradise
lost. The same crap again. What I don't understand is what is that kills
all fish excluding sharks, rays, and eels?
<There are a few protozoans, bacterial problems... Not environmental, nutritional... operational source.>
All levels in this system test
out perfect, ammonia-0, nitrite-0, nitrate<30 ppm, pH is 8.2. I'm
absolutely going nuts here. Please help, if not for me, then all these
poor creatures! Thanks for your help!
<If it were me, mine, knowing what you have presented here, I would dump this system again (bleach it entirely), re-introduce microbes from another system to get it to cycle, and be VERY careful on introducing all new fish livestock (through the dip process)... AND might add a visit from an aquatic-minded veterinarian (are you near a public aquarium?), OR ask them to necropsy a few specimens (they'll tell you how to handle, ship them). Bob Fenner>

Large livestock holding systems
Dear Bob,
<Darren>
I am interested in opening a large pet store in San Antonio and was wondering if there are any books on designing or building a large holding system for marine fish and invertebrates. I would like to build a flow through system. I somewhat understand the concept but I want to get everything right from the beginning and not the trial and error that I think I will experience on my own. I want the system to be around 8,000 to 10,000 gallon and on this size I am not sure what to use for a sump. I am not sure how to plumb everything. I would also like to leave the option open to add to the system if I ever need to. I look forward in hearing from you. Thanks in advance for all of your help.
Sincerely,
Darren
<No set of instructions per se, but I do want to direct you to two sources that I would use in relating how to go about what I think you want to do: An old (1973) tome by Stephen Spotte, "Fish and Invertebrate Culture in Closed Systems" or his newer Seawater Aquariums: The Captive Environment if you can't find the former, and Anthony Calfo's "Book of Coral Propagation". With a working knowledge of the theory from these works you should be able to execute the "real world" of a centralized filtration. Bob Fenner>

Re: large livestock holding systems
Bob,
Thank you for your quick response and all of your help. I was still wondering where people like yourself and all of your fiends got the experience to design such great systems. I would assume that it all had to start somewhere.
<Agreed... in many cases, this "technology" is an oral tradition, handed down from folks working on projects together... picking up bits... re tools, materials, applications from others. Folks you might meet at club meetings, LFS's... other walks of life like plumbers, electricians...>
The one main question that I am not sure and maybe you can tell me if these books answer it is how do I obtain a large enough sump (reservoir) for adequate water changes without having to shut the system down because the water level is so low in the sump.
<There are many possibilities here. Look around on the net re large polyethylene ("chemical", "agricultural") tubs, containers... you might be able to get by with a large Rubbermaid trough... these are fabulous and inexpensive for the volume... and the fit through doorways... very important>
Any tank that size I can't figure out how it wouldn't be in the ground. I guess what I am asking is with a large polyethylene water tank and gravity drain how would the water flow into the tank. I hope you can understand what I am asking and that I do not sound really stupid. I would like a similar system as to what some of the large wholesalers have that I have seen on the web but with more of the retail look out front.
<I do understand... there needs to be a difference in elevation twixt the tanks and their transit volume sump... if you have lower row tanks these won't drain...>
I look forward in all of your wise advice.
Thanks again and best regards,
Darren
<Maybe wise guy advice... Bob Fenner>

Re: large livestock holding systems
Bob,
Thank you for your quick response and all of your help. I was still wondering where people like yourself and all of your fiends got the experience to design such great systems. I would assume that it all had to start somewhere.
<Probably from "on the job" experience... not academics, or books...>
The one main question that I am not sure and maybe you can tell me if these books answer it is how do I obtain a large enough sump (reservoir) for adequate water changes without having to shut the system down because the water level is so low in the sump.
<Yes... though level switches of sorts are sometimes a good idea>
Any tank that size I can't figure out how it wouldn't be in the ground.
<Mmm, no... the "transit volume" can be calculated or just measured by filling all up, turning pump/power off... not really a big deal... and the sump/s marked as to their maximum high level...>
I guess what I am asking is with a large polyethylene water tank and gravity drain how would the water flow into the tank. I hope you can understand what I am asking and that I do not sound really stupid. I would like a similar system as to what some of the large wholesalers have that I have seen on the web but with more of the retail look out front.
<A very good idea/experience for you to visit a few installations and chat with the folks there... gravity, lower position... recirculating pumps... these are all that is really necessary>
I look forward in all of your wise advice.
Thanks again and best regards,
Darren
<Bob Fenner>

Tote that load... if you can find them
I read your article titled "Raceway Live-holding Systems".
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/pafarmstks.htm
I have been looking all over for the polyethylene tote reservoirs
pictured in the photos.  Do you know a vendor where I may acquire these?
<I just spent a few minutes looking through the Net, my notes... don't see the manufacturer listed anywhere... a few years back were made in the State of Washington... there are at least two "qualities" available... and you don't want the flimsier one if you're going to fill them all the way or use them as combo stands and transit volume sumps. How many do you need/want? If only a few you might do well to look around (are you in Texas? Try Fritz Chemical... they used to have livestock distribution businesses there and likely have the totes stored or know who in turn ended up with them)... otherwise, do check with local fish stores, ask them in turn where they buy their (esp. marine) livestock... and contact those folks in turn to see if they have any "extra" totes for sale... the polyethylene containers aren't the expensive part, it's the shipping... Good luck. Bob Fenner>

Re: Raceway Live-holding Systems (totes)
Yes, I am in Texas (Dallas).  I will check out your suggestions.  (Yeah,
to start with I only want a few, maybe one.)
<Ahh, good. These can be very inexpensive or the opposite... depending on how far away (the freight is more than the cost of the totes) and how many you want/can use>
I keep running into the shipping problem...  Also the local fish stores
do not seem too willing to talk about where they get their livestock
etc...
Thank you very much for your help!  :-)
<You might try contacting some of the wholesalers in the LA area if you want to try another source... Some have new ones they sell (All Seas for instance), other folks have used ones (they're fine), for a little less... just the shipping expense... Bob Fenner>

Automatic Water Changers
Greetings, I have been looking over your site since I discovered it and
find it has a wealth of information about fish.  I have recently
acquired a 55 gallon tank and some fresh water tropical fish, so I
appreciate the mass of knowledge your site provides.  I hope I am not
asking something that has been answered in your "FAQs" though I think
they would be more properly titled something else - FAQ implies the
same question being asked over and over and so to be answered in a
single place, while your helpful section might better be called a log
since it sequentially answers questions without grouping them together
by subject.  Anyway I am not trying to criticize, just point out why I
was confused for a little bit there, especially by questions in the FAQ
in which as part of your answer you suggest reading a URL which happens
to be the same one I am looking at. <Good points. The term "FAQ" is/was a matter of "convention"... though "log" is much more definitive I agree. RMF>
I'm pretty much a beginner at owning fish, and so made the mistake of
buying too many fish too soon for my tank.  (Buying from a discount
retailer doesn't help either, they don't know what they are doing much
more then you do.)  Anyways, I started out with 12 fish based on the
calculations the instructions gave me (12 * 4 inches average grown
length = 48, 1 inch of fish per gallon) - one fish was killed by
another, one got stuck in a bubbler ornament, and two others just up
and died, I'm guessing because the biological load on the tank was too
great.  The rest of the fish weren't eating but I started doing daily
water changes of about 10%, which for a 55 gallon tank actually works
out to 4 gallons.  The remaining fish have perked right up and seem to
be doing much better now.
Anyway here is my question.  Returning the fish to the store is out of
the question, and I don't want them to die so I am pretty much stuck
with them.  But I don't relish the prospect of manually changing a few
gallons of water every day or two, especially if I ever need to be gone
for a few days.  So I started wondering, this "power filter" that sits
on the back of the tank requires a couple of filters every 4-6 weeks,
and those aren't that cheap.  Why couldn't I just set up the tank so
that a supply line on my house's plumbing runs through some sort of
pre-heater that also mixes the drops of water treatment, and then every
day have it on a timer or something so that it (relatively slowly)
injects a few gallons of fresh treated water while allowing the same
amount to be sent down the drain (with a screen or something to keep
the fish from being lost of course).  Such a set up would seem to be
much cheaper then using a filter and would also eliminate the constant
water noise (air pump noises are much more tolerable when trying to
sleep).  This seems like such a simple logical solution but yet I
haven't been able to find anything like this at pet stores or whatever.
  From looking over the FAQs I see lots of people using sumps, but in
this setup there would be no extra tank, only the pump, piping or
tubing, and intake regulation of heat and water conditioning.  Am I not
looking in the right place, does something like this exist, or is this
something I would have to do myself?  Any suggestions or
recommendations? Thanks, Michael
Hello. There is a company called Aquarium Products that makes one called the Aquarium Water Changer: http://badmanstropicalfish.com/products/product_auto.html .It has been around for quite some time. Of course, you can always DIY, if you have the talent. You can do a search for automatic water changers, here are a couple of links for you to start with:
http://www.netpets.com/fish/reference/thielbook/thielbook4i.html
http://www.thekrib.com/Filters/water-changer.html
I also recommend you do a bit of reading on ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates, or the cycling process in general. Follow the Beginners FAQ's at thekrib.com. Good Luck -Gwen Loiselle

Question from new retailer continued II 10/30/03
That sounds very clever, I like it.  One thing that is kind of confusing me... what is a seawater float... is this different than a regular float switch?  
<ahh... my fault my friend. Not clear. Both float switches are the same... by seawater, I mean that one is hooked up to bleed in saltwater (the coarse, fast-tuned one), while the other (the sensitive slow-tuned one) simply bleeds in freshwater for evap top off. Thus a sharp drop in water level (as from sales and siphoned saltwater) will allow the seawater float switch to top of faster than the FW bleed can make a difference. And the sensitive tuned FW bleeding float can feed FW for slow evap while the SW float is tuned to coarse to even sense the slow drop in water level>
And thanks for filling my daily need for Bob.  I was getting a little worried when he didn't respond within 60 seconds.
<ha! tis the standard we try for <G>>
Thanks, Matt
<best of luck>

Centralized Filtration Systems 10/29/03
I just read your article on Centralized Filtration Systems on WWM. We are looking to open a retail aquarium store in Bombay, India.
<very exciting to hear!>
Since we don't mind investing a little extra money, but want to do everything right so as to improve efficiency, I think setting up a CFS is a great idea. Please can you tell me where I can get some more detailed information on setting up such a system for our store. We will be having about 30 tanks.
<seek the book "Aquatic Systems Engineering" by Escobar (look on booksellers like Amazon.com). It is an excellent book about many aspects of aquarium plumbing and filtration. Technical, but very good>
I don't think there is any company in India that offers CFS design and implementation services ( if there is, please let me know)  so all the help you can give will be very much appreciated.
Thanks, Clive Fernandes
<with kind regards, Anthony>

Question from new retailer
Hey Bob,
After a lot of thought, and research, I have decided to go with a custom built system rather than the D.A.S.
<DAS systems are nice in appearance... but my experiences with them in the past have shown them (at least at that time) to be lacking in functionality... not able to "ramp up" quickly to larger bio-loads... their filters undersized, not easy to work on or modify.>
Which means... I will have plenty of questions coming your way.  One thing I haven't really been able to find on your website is if there is how many gallon sump should be used for around 1200 gallons freshwater, and how big a sump for around 100 gallons Marine. That's it right now... but more to come, don't worry.
<Mmmm, well, the bigger the better... at least twenty percent of the volume they're servicing... will you have automated "top-off" mechanisms for these sumps? I would plan on at least having faucets handy stubbed nearby>
Matt Johnson
<Be chatting. Bob Fenner>

Cargo Containers - 8/13/03
the link is:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm  
It is the picture located under "employment opportunities in the trade" their gray plastic or polyethylene tanks.
<those containers are airline cargo containers and they are being used to merely support acrylic custom raceways. I honestly have no idea where you can buy the freight containers but have heard that they are very dear to buy and ship unless you have a tight connection. Do consider some local/regional source of plastic like feed troughs, fiberglass coffin liners (seriously), etc. Where availability will be better and the cost to acquire will be less expensive. Anthony>

Finding Plastics - 8/12/03
Greetings, I have looked all over the web for distributors of the Polyethylene tote reservoirs and cannot seem to come up with a distributor/producer etc... Could you please refer me to an email or webpage or phone number in which I can purchase these tote reservoirs. Thanks Jeff
<Jeff... your decision to purchase any such vessel will be significantly influenced by the cost of freight. You need to find someone close to you. Be resourceful my friend... try agricultural supply houses (feed troughs and like applications), call your local Chamber of commerce for a registry to seek regional manufacturers, look in the famous Thompson's Registry for most any conceivable manufacturing contact you can name nationally. I'm assuming you saw one you liked somewhere or talked to someone that has one you seek/like: ask the name of the manufacturer and then call them for a close distributor. Whew... and if all else fails, use: US Plastic Corp of Lima Ohio as a reference if not a source. Best of luck, Anthony>

Seeking Plastics - 8/13/03
Thanks for your reply. I checked out the US plastic Corp in Lima Ohio and checked their tote section and did not see any that looked like the same as the picture of the "fish runs" on the business section of WetWebMedia. I'm looking for those types specifically.
<please advise me of what page (send the link) you saw these on and we'll do our best to ID it for you. Best regards, Anthony>

Fishroom Filtration - Central? - 8/13/03
I have a scatter of tanks including from one 100 gallon, 4 55 gallons, 4 20 gallons and 4 10 gallons.  I breed Gouramis, platies and Corydoras catfish.  I was wondering if the crew had any recommendations on a common filtering system - at least for the big tanks.
<it is common and successful practice for better fishrooms to have tanks drilled and draining to a centralized sump for ease of water changes and reduced cost of heating and filtering. Each tank will still have a sponge filter or the like as an aerating feature and to serve as backup filtration. Do seek some DIY plans on the Internet for "centralized filtration" for "fishrooms". Visit some of the message boards and check with your local or regional aquarium societies too for a chance to visit another enthusiasts to see their systems... really the best way to learn/plan. Kindly, Anthony>

Re: Flow-Thru Filtration
I read your article on flow-thru filtration.  I have a question though.  How do you dechlorinate this constantly flowing water?
<Yes. Unfortunately the "amount" of sanitizer (usually chloramine) administered to source/tap water is quite variable... so one cannot rely on dilution to prevent toxicity. Incoming water is usually run through a contact filter>
  Currently, I am planning on opening an Aquatics Specialty store and would prefer this method if I can dechlorinate efficiently.  Also, could you please explain in more depth on how to setup such a system?  Thank you for your time.
<Don't know if I follow you re "how to set-up"? Do you mean the stands? Electrical? Plumbing? Do you have a design thus far? Bob Fenner>
- Jason Seymour

Re: Flow-Thru Filtration
Thanks for your reply.  I'm sorry.  What I meant was how to setup a flow thru system, just the actual plumbing part for say, ten tanks in a row.  What materials are needed? Thanks again.
- Jason Seymour
<Mmm, there are a few "variations" of how to do this. Please go to either the homepage of WetWebMedia.com or any of the indices and put in terms like "plumbing", "circulation", "pump selection", "sumps"... and read on. Bob Fenner>

Retail shop questions
I'm starting up an Aquatics retail shop specializing in marine fish/inverts and freshwater trops. I intend to run a centralized system for the marine fish with Trickle tower, sand filter, protein skimmer and UV, a separate system for the inverts/corals with DSB/LR for the filtration on this and separate UGF for the freshwater trops to allow for differing water parameters dependent on species.
<if you are running a central system then you must surely plan on having a QT system to hold all new fishes first. Else, adding new fishes every week to the central system is a game of Russian roulette with their lives and your livelihood. The UV is no guarantee of preventing disease at all. They are moderately effective under the best circumstances (crystal clean water... ozone daily, carbon changed weekly, water prefiltered before UV for control of turbidity, etc). Indeed... please consider QT protocol!>
Having been an avid hobbyist for 10+ years I understand the mechanics of the plumbing for your average home reef tank but am unsure of the "ins and outs" of a large centralized system. Can you point me in the direction of a good book that covers this area ? 
<yep... Aquatic Systems Engineering by Escobar>
I've trawled the web without much luck and have searched your excellent site and found quite a few pointers without getting hold of a definitive "how to" guide. Should there not be such a book in existence an answer to the following questions will help greatly:
<yep... Pablo's>
What size holes should be drilled in the tanks for the outflow ?
<dependant on desired flow rate. 10X hour minimum for central holding per tank... so... decide on tank size, X10, added altogether and find a pump and fittings to match. Very simple, my friend>
The tanks will be on racking of 6ft high by 4ft long with 3 rows of tanks on each, for the inflow should the water be fed into the top rows, gravity fed into the 2nd, then the 3rd and finally by gravity to the sump or should each row be fed independently from the main pump and drained on each row by gravity to a bottom drain to finally go to the sump ?
<advantages and disadvantages to all such designs. Here, it is less complicated and less expensive by not having separate feeds and drains, but is a greater risk for disease transmission. If you do not QT, I would not do this style>
What size pipe work would you recommend for the input and output pipe work ?
<as per pump size/water flow needed>
Sorry for what might seem like basic questions but it's next to impossible to get local shops to show you their systems and I want to get everything right first time. Many thanks Bob, Brian Jones
<no worries. Its just hard to be specific without much information. Do read Escobal's work first and follow up as necessary. Best regards! Anthony>

Re: shop
Business plan, yes I have done that 3 years ago for my own aquarium shop. Unfortunately my very limited budget did not allow me to stay in it.
<A very usual story for oh so many small business owners.>
Now is a different story. Somebody offered me to manage an aquarium shop in his hydroponics warehouse/shop which I'm doing that, everything from scratch! I have been in the aquarium hobby for 14 years and in this industry for 8 years.
<Good experience!>
I specialize is marine-reef aquariums, but I'm planning to have about 200 fish tanks, 140 liters each,
<Liters multiplied by 0.264 equals gallons, ~37 gallons in this case.>
including 32 marine tanks. 18 separate filtrations systems, including protein skimmers and ozonizers for marine sections.
<This sounds like a bit of a maintenance nightmare to me, 32 tanks with 18 separate filtration systems. I would prefer just a hand full. A few fish systems, one invert system, and perhaps a few coral systems, no more than a half dozen.>
Each of the 8 tanks owns one filtration system which is a trickle filter - freshwater and marine - in this stage $$$ is not the issue, I think any suggestions, tips, etc.
<See above and the many articles and FAQ's in the link I sent you last time.>
Thanks, John from Melbourne
<Good luck to you in your endeavor! -Steven Pro>

Just a question (centralized filtration systems, marine) fwded. from FAMA
I was wondering if there would be anyone interested in helping me with a
question, I recently purchased, through a friend, six 40 gallon and 3 twenty
gallon long tanks, built into a rack, with three forties on the bottom, three in
the middle row, and the three twenties on the top. I would like to set these
tanks up to house various marine inverts, fish, and corals to eventually move to
my display tanks through out my house. My question is about filtration. I
would like to be able to connect the tanks in a column fashion, meaning there
would be the two forties and a twenty connected to the same filtering unit. I
would like some advice on the most cost effective, way I could filter these
aquariums properly together, I have never had any problems with filtering
before, but have never tried in a series such as this. all of my previous tanks
have been filtered separately. I would like to know which products may be best
for my setup, but I must keep as low of a cost as possible. hoping that you
understand the advice I seek, thanks for your time
Jay 
<Please have a read through the business sections of our site here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cntfiltbiz.htm and the associated FAQs file. Specific input on gear can be obtained by way of our chatforum: http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/
Bob Fenner, WetWebMedia>

Filtration question (store set-up)
Needed advice on plumbing tanks for my store. I hope you don't tire of this question. Basically, 40 breeders drilled (4) tanks to each sump. I am using heavy duty shelving and plywood, total of (4) separate systems. I thought it would be easiest to plumb this way plus I like having separate systems. I am going to overflow from top (2) tanks into the bottom tanks and finally to the
sump. The sump is where I am unclear. I want to trickle the water over
filter floss and carbon (probable PolyFilters too) then through some media
probably base rock and then a protein skimmer. 
<fine for a light bio-load, but you may have to concede to extra biological support from bioballs (nitrate and all) for a heavy fish system>
I am looking at the "Euroreef" you wrote about. Maybe best to skim first like you say. 
<absolutely... catch overflowing water into a skimmer chamber first which then overflows into the sump>
Then I want to add a sandbed and Caulerpa (plan to use 55 watt compact). 
<the Caulerpa is a bit dangerous with a fluctuating bio-load as it's daily needs grow daily and consistently but your stores fish/invertebrate load that provides the nutrients changes weekly with sales and shipments... when the algae goes vegetative, you could lose everything within 24 hours>
I eventually will add UV sterilizes. 
<with wild imported weekly shipments...this is one of the most important devices>
Is there a problem if I use a Berlin sump skimmer with it's
own pump? 
<yes... quality of skimmate, fluctuating sump level affecting performance, path of water flow, etc in my opinion>
Instead of piping to main system? The tanks will @ 6 feet and @ 4
feet. What is best G.P.H pump and best tank size for the sump? 
You need to calculate how much flow you want/need in each tank (dependant on the animals kept), then confirm that your overflows can handle it, and then multiply it out. Once you figure that out... I favor Japanese made Iwaki pumps for store use water pumps>
For fresh I plan to use air bubbler sponges instead of undergravel. Which do you prefer?
<totally agree... sponge filters are the best filtration!!! just a little ugly for some aquarists>
Finally, where can I buy Metronidazole? 
<Seachem makes it... available mail order from most any marine drygoods supplier. Do check with the advertisers on the Q&A page>
I seen it for sale in pill form for people.
<essentially the same, but with filler...try to find the pet dose first>
I apologize for my poor writing skills. I hope I am not killing you with all these questions. I appreciate your help and your web site. It is hard for me to find knowledgeable people who are not cocky and unhelpful lol! Sincerely, BKL Ps- I hope all is well!
<no trouble at all.. you will make the very best kind of retailer/aquarist as long as you are willing to continue to learn, teach and grow. Kindly, Anthony>

Dungeness crab (holding facility/gear)
Hi Robert,
<Howdy>
Our company manufactures crab and lobster traps. We're purchasing a 12' wide x 31" high wading pool to set up as a crab observation tool. We want to watch Dungeness crab, and perhaps lobster later, as they crawl into our traps and try to get out. We make some entrance devices for the traps that we would like to observe as to their effectiveness. Our web site is www.neptunemarineproducts.com.
<Neat>
Any advice on how extensive of a system I will need to keep the crab alive and active would be appreciated. I suspect we would only need a couple of weeks to observe the crab's behaviour in relation to our entrances. After that, a crab feed!
<Take a look here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cntfiltbiz.htm
re centralized filtration systems in the ornamental aquatics business... same gear, principles apply... and any/all else on our site (www.WetWebMedia.com) that is linked, is unknown to you... And make it known if I can be of further help... Am tempted to suggest a "skid unit" more for the pool industry than a more expensive "live holding system" unit here... If cost is a concern... But would like to know that I/we weren't otherwise changing the test animal/prey's behavior by neglecting good water quality. Bob Fenner>
Sincerely,
Ed Wyman

Thanks for the Help - Rebuilding a Pet Store System
Hello Bob,
Thank you for your helpful response. I wasn't sure whether I would have to
look for my answer on-line, so I was surprised to find your response in my
in-box the next day. Sorry it has taken me so much longer to get back to you.
<No worries>
We had a bit of a rough weekend, ... Our local electric company was to
replace the main power feeds for the building our pet store is in, ...
Saturday night, sometime between 6pm and 2am Sunday morning. So, it was my
job to rent, set up, and operate the generator that would save the fishes lives. 
<Yikes... a big job>
There I was with my spare gas can, my cot and my guitar. Of course
they never showed up. I'll probably get to do the same thing next weekend.
<Some fun now... not!>
Anyway, back to the design of our new salt water system. Thank you for your
guidance. My plumbing questions have basically been answered. The idea of
leaving a "vent" tee open on some of the tank drains was a "light bulb" for
me. So obvious, but I never thought of it until you suggested it.
<Really does work... of course>
Based on the input I have solicited from helpful souls like yourself, along
with what I have read, I am proposing the following water processing flow:
Tanks (20 - 20 gallon tanks = 400 gallons or thereabouts)
<Hmm forties or even sixties would be better... able to maintain much more life, much more easily, less maintenance than twenty gallon marine systems>
Bulkhead and drain line for each tank (1-1/2" flex, about 24" long)
3" Return line
<3" return? This can be 2"... and the supply line just 3/4"... you don't need anything larger diameter... much more money for larger pipe, fittings...>
Filter Sock (Recommendation? - see below)
<Yes... Emperor Aquatics has the best ones>
Sump section 1 (excess flow floods into section 2)
Skimmer pump
Venturi Skimmer (output into sump section 2)
Sump section 2 (floods to section 3 if bio filter clogged)
Chemical Filter (activated charcoal)
Pump to feed biological filter
Biological filter (Wet/Dry or Fluidized bed?)
<Fluidized bed if you think you will have widely fluctuating bioloads>
Sump Section 3
Heater
Main pump
UV filter (with parallel bypass to get correct flow)
<And to maintenance the lamps, sleeves>
Fine mechanical Filter (Pleated paper cartridge)
<Really? Do get/use at least two sets of cartridges (will last four times as long) that you can be cleaning, letting air dry while other set/s are in use>
Return to Tanks I'd sure welcome your opinion on this layout.
<Sounds like it has most everything to it>
Some issues I can see:
I'd like to start the processing with an easy to change, easy to clean,
gross mechanical filter that can run with very little head pressure off the
gravity returns to the sump (about 2' of head). This might be a filter
sock, some floss in a chamber or something else, .... any recommendation?
<Yes... a floating "fish box" with a two layers of Dacron polyester "batting material" (from the yardage store)... this is the same material as coarse filter media, DLS sold in the trade... cut some squares, punch holes in the Styro box, put two layers of the filter media in it, and let it float in/over the return sump after the Emperor "socks" filter out the main gunk coming from the return line...>
I don't want to spend the money it would take to buy a skimmer that would
handle 100% of the flow. I already have the Top Fathom TF300 and a couple
of Emperor Aquafoamer II venturi skimmers, rated at 400 gallons. I don't
know what the flow rates of any of these units are, but from the pump
recommendations, I would guess that they pass 300 gph or less. My total
system flow should be around 1500 - 2000 gph, right?
<Not necessarily... no sense in "over-driving" the skimmers... flow/pressure wise... do just run that amount of water through it/them that is best/rated. Look into the Euro-Reef Skimmer line when you can fit it into your budget...>
I have read, and been told that skimmers won't work in parallel,
<What? Of course they can/will>
but this would be the best scenario for me. I would like to use skimmers that we
have available for sale in the store, both as a marketing tool, and so I
could have more personal knowledge of the products so as to help our
clients. You recommended EuroReef, which sounds like an excellent product,
but is pretty "high line" for our current business. So, I would again like
to raise the concept of dual, identical, commercial hobbyist skimmers, like
Turboflotors or Red Sea Berlin Classics, run in parallel. I see many "reef
sump" systems that feature built-in dual skimmers, so why is it not
recommended with discrete components? 
<You've got me... I recommend it if a larger unit can't be afforded, it makes sense otherwise>
I would run them off a single pump,
headered and valved to fine tune the operation of each (Turboflotors could
be in a sump section with a weir for level control)
<Yes>
Also, although you recommended placing the skimmer after the bio-filter, it
seems sensible to place the skimmer first in the process since a portion of
the organic materials it will remove would end up being converted by the
bio-filter anyway. Why not give the skimmers the smelliest, juiciest swill
possible?
<The sorts of molecules are different, and there are other advantages to aerating the water before returning it (degassing principally)>
Do you have any recommendations for chemical filtration? I was thinking of
something like a muslin bag full of activated charcoal in a section of the
sump that would pass full flow, after the skimmer but before bio-filtration.
<Should come last... activated carbon is fine. Replace/renew monthly>
Moving downstream, I have a wet/dry available. I also have a big fluidized
bed filter (like 13 or 14 gallons of media). This was hooked up incorrectly
and never worked properly, but since we already own it, ... would this be preferable?
<Yes>
It is unfortunate that laying things out in the order I have, I will require
a pump to operate the bio filter. One option would be to run the bio-filter
on the output from the skimmer(s), which would be more viable if I can go
with the high flow, dual skimmer scenario. Do you have any other insight on this?
<Yes... less pumps are better... returning the water through the skimmers is fine>
And on downstream, ... Do you think there is any point to placing a fine
mechanical filter after the main pump (returning flow to the tanks) 
<No>
This is where it was placed on the old system, and I guess i