Question please help... Aquarium Service, calculating... gross revenue, net...  7/6/08
Ok I've been in the Aquarium cleaning business for about 10 yr now, and it's time for me to expand. I also worked in the Pet industry for about 13 yrs as head of fish department between 2 small franchise pet stores. At first I was cleaning aquariums in my spare time until I finished school and went full time for the last 3 yrs. I have about 40 clients, mostly commercial,
<A good number, kind>
and working out of my home.
<Good... keeps expenses down>
So overall I'm very familiar with the industry, but the question I have is finding a median to potential gross income for my business plan. I've search for sometime, and I see that so many companies operate so differently. Now the area I'm in there is very few competition, it's about 6 companies total in my part of VA including myself. I've been playing with this figures for a while now, and can't come to a conclusion. I don't know what is realistic for a yearly gross sales in service.
<Six figures is a good round number>
I can figure what I need as far as expenses, advertisement, and etc. Please help if you have a national average or formula so I can complete this plan.
<Don't have... don't know that there ever has been such figures, data>
Ok I give you an example, my fix expense according to my plan is about 9k per month, and my break even analysis came in around 220 K per year.
<Wow!>
I don't know if that is realistic or not, I see some companies that gross more / less than that figure, but they design and make aquariums as well. I know in the Pet store industry you can figure out the sales forecast by $200 -$250 per square foot of retail space.
<Yes... a good minimum nowadays>
What about the aquarium service business, how can I figure a ideal sale forecast or gross income from service?
Thank you
<Can be calculated by your desires... that is what you hope to make gross and net... and figured backwards by the hour... Or calc.ed by going forward with what you charge per hour... counting or discounting travel time, shopping... admin... If you don't already figure these in already...>
I'm tire of working out of my home, I want a warehouse to work out of and ready for financing to get the ball rolling. I know what needed to get setup, and how to execute the plan, but trying to predict what I can actually make is unknown. I know I'm really getting out there and it time for me take action.
<A big step... May entail having to hire other/s... Do you have an operations manual in place? Perhaps a partner who has a strong operational side would suit you... Bob Fenner>

Starting a new ornamental aquatics svc. biz... approaches  - 06/08/2007
hello, long time reader 1st time typer. well to give you a short story, I have 3 tanks. 1 guppy breeder tank on the way. 55gl fish tank fresh water, 40gl saltwater FO. and a 20gl reef tank with corals. want to start up a prorogation tank, and I also want to build a pond in my yard, (just got a house) and Ill be putting a fish tank probably 55gl at my pizza shop that I own. ( just a small pizza shop)
<Yummy!>
But my Question is how would I go about starting a aquarium maintenances business. and also work on ponds. (cleaning and stocking) wondering how much ins. would cost.. the city I would working in has a population of 65,000 and a few miles away there is 2 other towns of 20,000 total. there is only one other business that does what I would like to do, they also design and build aquariums. hear is the competitions web site http://www.newwaveaquaria.com/ the funny thing is the owners live some what by me. ...
<Best to start... at the beginning... start to apply for a fictitious name stmt., business license, URL for the company's website... generate a presentation to post, take on the road analog to show potential customers... with pricing... for what you offer. Make a business and marketing plan... with demographics, who your potential customer is... And you have read: http://wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm
my take off on Musashi's "Book of Five Rings"... the five critical elements of business: location, finance, personnel, set-up and stocking... any one of which if it's deficient can be crippling... Much to consider. Bob Fenner>

Service Maintenance Contract Help -02/25/08
I started a small mom and pop Saltwater exclusive LFS in May of 2007. I have regular walk-in hours and regular by appointment hours. Basically if we are not at the airport picking up live-stock or out doing service contracts we are open.
<nice>
I have recently landed a nice contract for a high-end computerized saltwater reef system, which will be in the children's section at a County Library. I have searched the web looking for a draft of a Service Contract and have not found one. Do you have one or know where I could find one? I would like to use the verbiage as a basis to create something more professional for my store?
<I would strongly suggest you consult a lawyer to help you draft a general/standard service contract for all your customers which you can tweak to customize for each job/person. But if you'd rather do it yourself, please do consult some of the "writing your own contracts" books and/or guides on the web. Some sources even sell generic service contracts you can work with.>
I have tried searching the web site, and it keeps showing this, but I can't find that section:
SvcCoFAQs
Not having ever seen an aquarium install/service contract (do you know where I could take a long at an example?), I've come up with the following ...
www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/svccofaqs.htm
Thank you,
Cathy
<Best,
Sara M.>

Fish Death...What's Normal/Acceptable ? -11/27/2007
Hey Howdy Bob !!
Scott from Blue Marlin again...
<Hello Scott!>
I have a question for you and all the other crew members. What is considered normal or acceptable for the rate of fish death?
<... Mmmm, a bunch to state here... Some for sure... not too much, for economic consideration... And variable, by species, size, source/location... a few percent...>
I know that that question is pretty loaded and depends on many variables, however, I take every fish death that any one of my client tanks may have very personally and have spent many sleepless nights thinking/worrying about what I did wrong...
<Mmm... we should chat here... A very important "point", bench-mark in ones time on the planet in determining (by action) in their life what is ones domain, what is beyond... and delineating personally between these two... "Grant unto Caesar...">
to the point that I want to give up on my business.
<Mmmmm, again...>
I spend weeks or months quarantining all new fish, agonize over water quality and go to ends of the earth to educate my clients on proper feeding techniques and things to look for before there is a death. But much to my chagrin, there are still fish that die for what appears to be no good reason.
<Correct... and I assure you this would be the case if I, my other advanced aquarist friends, public aquariums... anyone were in the same position. Many aquatic organisms do "simply" die... mysteriously. A good deal can be understood from the point of view of their general "reproductive strategy" in space and time... the production of a maximal number of sex products, juveniles... and the long "neotenous periods" of much of the life under the sea... even vertebrates... They're just not "ready for prime time"... and their world/s are fraught with many and changeable challenges... Hence many do "just" die... w/o apparent cause... NOT to be taken personally. Do your best, keep learning... and press on... IF possible/practical, practice ameliorative activities... like writing/sharing your experiences... for fish mag.s, BBs, local fish clubs...>
I've been in the hobby since I was 13 and have been doing it professionally for the past 8 years. Im pretty sure I already know the answer to this issue, but is it possible to have 100% of all new stock survive? Or is that a pipe dream that is just not attainable?
<The latter my friend. Won't happen... we're mere people working in a/the real world, not Mohamed/Buddha/Jesus...>
I go to all my LFS and see sick or dying fish all the time and think to myself that there is no way that I would ever let that happen.
<IS the nature of the beast/business... much is done in this world that is a matter of "economic expedience", apathy, ignorance... Witness the invasion of sovereign nations, oppression and heedless murder of civilians...>
However, I also think that it is inevitable that a certain percentage of fish just don't survive being taken out of the ocean and crammed in a box full of water.
Waiting sleeplessly for your input.
--
Scott C. Wirtz
Owner
<Further Scott... come out and go diving, visiting with me... We'll chat and you can hope to gain perspective... at least share mine. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Regarding my new business, svc.   11/13/07
Hi Bob, I talked to you briefly through WetWebMedia emails I was writing to you in regards to my 90 gallon reef. I was helping a friend with his business, and thinking of starting my own. If you don't remember, I designed the 90 gallon reef with the black upholstered Egyptian stand. My fiancé and I have finally made it to the coast, we now live in Arroyo Grande on the central coast in California as of last Friday. I have searched all over and I have yet to find a fish shop here, or a service company.
<Mmm, is there a reason... population, demographics of income, age...?>
I have seen several tanks in need of some TLC, and decided it was finally time to get the ball rolling on my company. I remember you telling me to let you know when I was ready so we could discuss the business and how to start it right. I have a name set up and approved by the Secretary of State (now registered) Exotic Aquascapes is the name. I have a resale permit now as well. <Good>What I am going for with the business is aquarium design, set up, and maintenance. Ultimately I would like to handle the projects from thought to completion, making it as easy as possible for the folks purchasing the aquariums. As far as client base I was thinking of hotels, restaurants, businesses, doctors offices, gyms, vacation rentals, and private homes. Cleopatra's pearl as I call it (my 90 gallon "Egyptian themed" reef) is all set up and looking beautiful we got some great shots of it for a brochure and website. I've spent my whole life working with art, design, and aquariums. In fact when I was born and brought home from the hospital my parents set my play-pen up in front of an aquarium and my love for water and fish grew from there. At one point I had 9 tanks at home all running and all different. I bred discus for a while, I had a breeding pair of Zebra Plecos, and kept many of the L numbers. I grew up in the back of my fathers graphic art studio in the central valley learning a lot as I spent time there. I have the ability to do full color renderings of the aquariums I design so the folks doing business with me can get a sneak peak so to speak. I have tools and service equipment to work on maintenance projects and I have been teaching my fiancé how to do a lot of the basic stuff as well as having her read your books, as well as Anthony's books and several other great publications. I have 30 books in all on aquarium maintenance, design, and animal selection and husbandry. I also picked up a microscope (one you recommended, and a copy of fish disease, diagnosis and treatment. Those last two have been incredibly enlightening. I am set up with SDC for the livestock, as well as Underwater World, I do want to check out Quality Marine though.
<All good companies>
I got very lucky and met a girl that wishes to work with me (she loves it almost as much as I do) and I have a wonderful family that is very supportive. I would greatly appreciate your input on this endeavor. Thank you so much for your time, and efforts you are truly making a difference, Brian Crenshaw
<All sounds very promising up front... Now... what about your business background? Have you formulated, formalized a business plan? And, I strongly encourage your generating marketing a plan... and a guess at a spreadsheet of likely income/expenses... monthly... for a couple of years... for you to gain an understanding of what your costs likely will be, and something to check back on... modify with time. And, we'll be chatting, Cheers, BobF>
 

One More Question on the Ridiculously Large Aquarium Maintenance 8/10/07
We're getting very close to sealing the deal with the 5,000 gallon, which now sounds closer to 10,000 gallons, client. The aquarium pricing and service pricing sounds good to them, now that we've agreed to charge by the hour, but I'm wondering if there's an "industry standard" for maintenance contracts.
<Not that I've seen, am aware of... Have knowledge of some folks in the west charging as little as fifteen dollars per hour (way too cheap) in some settings... others up to a hundred for consulting, about half this for actual work...>
Obviously maintenance on a 75 gallon will not make or break any company, but our business will depend quite heavily on the maintenance of this aquarium. I'd hate to see some "dork" off the street come in and undercut us for a couple reasons. A) Nobody wants to lose any business, especially one of this magnitude, B) This aquarium would be in a high-traffic, very-public place, and we'll be promoting this aquarium because it will be a great project for our "portfolio". If somebody comes in and offers to do it for less money and the tank goes "down the toilet", I don't want anybody thinking that we're responsible.
<Mmm... this scenario won't happen, I assure you. An entity that would invest in such a system is concurrently smart enough to realize what can/could happen here... No worries. Just do a good job and charge fairly for it, consistently>
We haven't ever offered/required a service contract (although it might be something to look into for even smaller tanks, with an incentive to the customer),
<I would do this... Very important for a few reasons... For one, to show that you're a "real" company... Two, to provide for continuity, for you and your customers... and Three, to show "others" (e.g. banks) should you want/need to display your "realness">
but I really think this something I'd like to do this time. Any idea what others are doing? Ideally, I'd like to ask for 3 years, but I may be expecting waaaay to much.
<We just had annuals>
I just need to know what others are getting. Any suggestions?
<Twelve deep breaths, regular walks... and a visit out to S. Cal., elsewhere w/ me/us to do a bit of dive adventure travel once a quarter... where we can chat such issues over, you can refresh, renew your purpose, direction... and relax. Bob Fenner>

Come get my fish. Looking for aquarium removal svc.    8/6/07
Good morning and thank you for this wonderful service. I have had an aquarium for 15 years (started as a gift for my kids who are now grown) and enjoyed the experience. About five years ago, we decided not to purchase any more fish and to take care of the fish we had and let nature take its course. I now have two fish left, two very large rainbow sharks that I estimate are about 8 years old. This morning my tank started to leak, and I don't want to establish a new tank. Do you know of a service that will come to our home, take the fish, and break down the tank? One fish needs special attention because he has a lesion below his mouth. I just don't know what to do. Thank you for any advice you can provide. Jeanne Pearlman
<Hello Jeanne. Nope, I've not heard of anything that provides this service. Possibly the best thing to do is call the local animal rescue or aquarium club and ask for help. At least here in the UK there are several "good Samaritan" fish rescuers who will re-home fish for a nominal cost. Otherwise, call your local aquarium shop and see if they'll take in the fish and re-home them. Failing that, call the kids and tell 'em to come get their fish. Once you've re-homed the fish, breaking down the tank and disposing of it shouldn't be difficult. If the heater, filter, etc. are in working order, consider donating to charity so others can enjoy them. Cheers, Neale>

Rent-to -Own Aquariums.   7/30/07
Hello WWM Crew,
<Myk>
I like to check the Biz FAQs regularly and I noticed a post regarding rent-to-own aquarium systems. As most are right now I would imagine, business is a bit slow for my aquarium service company.
<Some areas definitely so... Though other regions, segments (rich folks et al.) are booming>
I like the idea of the rent-to-own and was wondering if you could offer some guidance on approaching this. I have never done something like this before and have no idea how to go about it. Is it best to come up with a standard set up and offer it for a rental price over the course of a year? Should the system be marked up for a profit beyond the service contract? Any information that you could pass would be greatly appreciated.
Thank You,
Myk.
www.AquaticCreationsOnline.com
<Well... can be another possible "in" to sales... And our old service Co. did try this for a few years... For our parts we found that only the commercial side was interested in such (some restaurants for ornamental rigs, but quite a few seafood holding systems...). The long and short of it/this is/was that it was not profitable for us compared with outright sales or simple leasing... We might have had ten such deals and two of them if memory serves went sideways... One with the system being damaged beyond economic repair, the other with the folks disappearing altogether! Better to further your efforts in expanding into other markets geographically, or expanding into ponds, planted tanks... IMO/E. Bob Fenner>

Re: Rent-to -Own Aquariums.  7/31/07
Hi Bob,
<Myk>
Thank you very much as always for your help.
<Welcome>
It sounds to me that it would be a safer approach to try to stick with commercial with the rent-to-own plan. You also bring up a good point about the seafood systems that I hadn't thought of and will explore this more.
<Ahh!>
I appreciate your time, have a great day.
Myk.
<Glad to help you. BobF>

Looking for info to start a service Co.  7/28/07
Bob,
<Frank>
I've seen your name all over the internet. Seems logical to ask you, do you have a book for the aquarium service business?
<Mmm, no... have our old service manual/Ops. manual... and bits, pieces of  articles, responses to queries re the svc. side posted on WetWebMedia.com's Aquatics Business SubWeb for alls' perusal though>
I find myself wanting to start an Aquarium Service Company. I have great knowledge regarding both salt, reef and fresh care and maintenance about 30 years. I'm sure there are ins & outs about the business that I could learn about to make travels down the road to Fish Geeky-ness less bumpy.
<The knowledge/skills you possess currently are absolutely requisite... AS is business know-how... and a/the personality, drive/ambition to pursue such a vocation>
I have been in the hobby for too many years but I know there is always something I can learn.
<I as well my friend. Bob Fenner>
Frank

Re: Looking for info to start a service Co.  7/29/07
Bob
Thanks for your response. I have reviewed most of your articles on WetWebMedia.com, excellent they have helped me to better understand the industry.
<Ah, good>
Is your service/Operational Manual available?
<Actually, don't know... is in an old word-processing format that haven't tried to convert for years... and am out of town in HI for a month>
Do you have any experience with Fresh Water Service and/or the 75% water change complete on each service which is noted on some service company web sites.
<Have considerable exp.; but don't suggest such changes UNLESS you're  hauling/bringing your own water... Some folks do>
Again thank you for your help.
Frank Zoche
<Welcome. BobF>

New <actually...> biz idea, "Tanks (Love) For Sale..." TV ads ineffectiveness   7/7/07
My name is Joseph and I am from SF Bay Area California. I have a business idea I want to run by you guys.
<Okay>
I want to start a Rent-to-Own aquarium business. Targeting the mid income public.
<Good idea... we did this for almost two decades>
Using Television commercial.
<Mmmm, not likely at all to be "cost-benefit useful">
Full service hands free packages, I know the rent to own business and I was into the hobby for about 5 years. I know how addictive and gratifying it can be. I also know the work and responsibility. I feel I can offer the plusses of the hobby without the hard messy stuff.
Has anyone tried this?
<A few folks, companies over the years, yes>
I cant find any businesses like this and have never seen anything like it. Especially advertised on TV.
<Our trade, ornamental aquatics, HAS used this medium (mainly Tetra's (under Ulrich Baensch and WLA's stewardship) co-op ad programs years back... But, as stated, there's not enough 'catch per unit effort' to warrant such expense... Perhaps targeted ads in the local mag.s for home improvement... Attending professional trade shows... Placements in kiosks of sorts in large shopping malls with the demography of population you perceive your customer base to be made of... We/Nature Etc. Inc. used these last three to economic advantage... Bob Fenner>
Thanks for your time,
Joseph

Large Scale Aquarium Systems - 06/27/07
Hello Bob,
<Brian>
I am always anticipating what seems to be the next level or natural progression of where my business is going (so I think).
<You are wise here, twice, perhaps thrice>
It seems that it is only a matter of time before I am given the opportunity to either design, install or maintain (preferably) a "Large Scale" aquarium system. To me a "Large Scale System" would be defined as 1,000 gallons or greater, salt or freshwater and usually for public display (restaurants, zoos, science centers etc.) With my experience up to this point being aquarium systems (primarily saltwater, and specifically saltwater reef) up to 800 gallons or less, how does one transition into the business of these systems.
<Accept the task at hand, think/cogitate (maybe furiously), and get on with it... Akin to food recipes, a good deal of what is done is scalable>
I would think that the most ideal method is to apprentice with a company or organization already dealing with these systems?
<Could be>
I do not want to lessen the magnitude of these systems by thinking that they are very similar to smaller, < 1,000 gallon systems, with the only difference being a matter of scale in filter sizes, plumbing sizes, lighting etc., but I wonder if that is indeed a lot of the difference?
<In all actuality, not really>
I am also in the water garden arena and I have built and managed systems of up to 40,000 gallons. However, I know that these are open systems, and treated very differently from closed/aquarium systems. Your expert input would be greatly appreciated!
Sincerely,
Brian Dahle
www.fishmanservices.com
<Mmm, is there a given aspect you'd like to discuss? I do agree that lake mgmt. is different than small volumes... harder, longer-term, less-expensive means of "turning" (like navigating a large ship with a small rudder)... but in practical consideration, there is not much difference between a hundred gallon fish tank and a thousand gallons... or ten times this amount. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Ridiculously Large Aquarium Maintenance – 06/27/07
Hello again,
We've been going back and forth with a client that could potentially end up getting an aquarium for a retail place that is as large as 5,000 gallons.
We've been doing a lot of research on different filtering methods and are ready to give them the quote, but I'm a little stumped on what to charge for maintenance. Our standard maintenance charge per visit for "reasonable" (we've never done anything "unreasonable") aquariums is $25 minimum + $.50/gallon.
This would be for one monthly visit.
If it's 2 times per month, we give a 10%
discount per visit, and if it's every week, we give a 15% discount per visit.
While this has worked well and has been worth our while thus far, using the same formula for this aquarium would end up at $2,125 per weekly visit. I've read you recommending that charging "hourly" is a great way to go, but I'm just not sure how we quote something like that.
<Mmm, figure what your time is worth... to yourself, your customer base... calculate or add in time for transit, gathering supplies... and this is about what you charge. Our service rate was $35 per hour... but this was in the early nineties...>
I'd love to just call someone with experience and see how much they charge for something close to this size, but I'm thinking that the maintenance people might view me as competition. I'm not trying to be greedy and see how much I "could" charge, but I'd love to have a reference and be reasonable. Any insight on this?
<Mmm, I'd charge the folks $200 dollars a visit, plus retail on livestock, drygoods... and see how this works for a year. Bob Fenner>

Re: Ridiculously Large Aquarium Maintenance – 06/28/07
That sounds very reasonable. Thanks for the advice.
<Welcome my friend (and fellow industry professional)... And to be clear, I don't sense or want to be mistaken for proffering "advice", but only respond with what I would do given my background and the information presented. Cheers, BobF>

Before I Mail These Out... Service, etailing promotion... FWIW/Alternatives   - 05/01/07
First of all, thanks for the response on my last marketing question.  I've decided to start marketing my saltwater-only store by using direct mail to get my tri-fold brochures (very colorful of course) out to the customers with the greatest potential.
<Good idea>
Please stop me if something doesn't sound right, and/or if you have anything that I'm missing.  In hopes of boosting immediate sales (and possibly service accounts), I'm considering on targeting the following:
-Doctors, Physicians, Hospitals, etc.
-Dentists, Orthodontists, Oral Surgeons, etc.
-Lawyers(?), people with "disposable" income, etc.
<A good target audience>
I wish I could find a list of "The most likely places to see an aquarium", but my search fell short, so I'm going on assumption only.  In the smaller towns of Michigan, saltwater aquariums are scarce, so I don't see first hand where the aquariums should be.  Please let me know if there are any obvious ones I'm missing.
<Mmm... well... do think there is more "bang for the buck" to be had by building your site... having time go by... offering "bonuses" to your existing customers for their help... tie-in sales>
In addition to boosting immediate sales, I also want to build relationship with other businesses, in order to generate some future sales.  I want to reach the following business, just to let them know there is someone in the area with the expertise, and so they keep us in mind if any requests came from clients and/or if they just want to put an over-the-top aquarium into a new project:
-Architects
-Builders
-Engineers
-Contractors
-Interior Designers/Decorators  
<Good thinking...>
I guess I'm not sure who is the most responsible for putting an aquarium into a design/project, but I'm guessing that most of the businesses I listed would influence the decision in some way.  Again, let me know if you'd make any changes to my list of "future business" targets.
<Not targets... but the means stated... is expensive, and don't think the ROE (return on effort) will be there>
I'd just hate to miss out on an enormous aquarium installation, just because a builder didn't know we existed.  I wanted to run these by you and get your thoughts before I "pull the trigger".  
Thanks again Bob!
<Welcome... Am back in San Diego, and sending out billings today. If you folks want to stay on WWM, do make a payment today, or we'll be dropping you. BobF>

Partnerships with local establishments... Where pond service and retail cooperate to all's benefit     1/14/07
Hello Bob,
<Hey there Brian!>
Your passion for this industry is infectious to say the least! Thank you for sharing all your experience and resources, a true well spring and boon for us all! I have been operating an aquarium and water garden design, installation and maintenance business, out of my home, for several years now.
<... and I did the same as you are likely aware>
I was thinking about going retail, but have diverted
that thought to partnering with local retailers and offering my services to them. So far so GOOD!
<Yes... and retail is really hard... Harder than stand-up comedy IME!>
I have been in concert with two retailers, a garden shop for the water garden business and an aquarium shop for both the water garden and aquarium business (I am providing my aquarium maintenance service to their customers). My problem is that I am having some difficulty getting these wonderful establishments to carry the water garden parts and pieces. They love the enhancement the water garden display brings to their establishments, aesthetics and all, but are not willing to take the next step and start stocking the drygoods.  
<Mmm... this will likely come... with growth of both your and their businesses... in the warming months... this season or next...>
I have entertained the thought of occupying some floor space, maybe on a rent basis and put my money where my mouth is and carry the items for retailing purposes.
<Mmm>
This is where it gets sticky. There are all kinds of issues that run across my mind with this proposal. Commission on sales, keeping track of sales, cost to me for floor space, having an individual staff my space, etc. . I am trying to have a great access point to send my current and future customers to, so they can have a nice "retail" experience and hopefully round out my  "fullserviceness".   What are your thoughts on this matter. Is it a bad proposition for my current business model, which is to be a full service, service company?
<Well... for one, kudos on your apparent drive, ambition... and direction... When do you sleep? And... secondly... I would not go the renting space, providing drygoods route here... Too likely to be real troubles with jealousy twixt all the other outlets... and as you state, not easy to monitor your/their inventory... I myself encourage your ongoing efforts at encouraging the stores to stock more... and make offers to help them with presentation/s... Like free in-store pitches on water garden design, installation... stocking, maintenance... Perhaps an offer to build, place a small sample pond (we used to have Tetra 32 mil liners on sort of "Lincoln Log" emplacements in our retail shops... Maybe to help them plan an end-cap display with pond-oriented merchandise... Foods, water treatments... to a few pumps (like the Luft) filters, large nets... for the "pond season"... You can even look for some help with all this with some of the larger manufacturers and distributors...>
Will it somehow start conflicting with my current loose "partnering" situation with these establishments, and maybe create a future strain?
<Yes... I think this is too much a possibility>
Your sage advice would be much appreciated!
Brian Dahle
The Fishman Aquarium and Water Garden Services
www.fishmanservices.com
<Remember... persistence pays... Hope to meet you on the pet-fish high and by-ways. Bob Fenner>

Aquarium Service Insurance  8/25/06
Hi,
<Hello there>
I am starting an aquarium service business out of my home.
<Ahh, congrats!>
  I have and a very difficult time finding liability insurance that will cover my business.
<Mmm... a bunch to state, relate here... for now it might be best for you to chat with your present Insurance co., agent, ask re extending the current policy, perhaps getting a "tool rider" to cover your business... If you're the only "employee" you may not need other ins. (e.g. "Worker's Comp.")>
  Can you or anyone on the message board tell me where you are getting insurance?  I can be reached at: AquatiClear@mac.com  I would really appreciate any help I can get.
Thanks,
Ken,
AquatiClear@mac.com  
<I will ask Steve Pro, Jim Stime... folks I know in the industry to chime in here. Bob Fenner>

Re: Aquarium Service Insurance  8/25/06
Hello Ken,
UGH, insurance. Much to my frustration I seem to have to go looking for this every couple of years as either the broker no longer carries this type of policy or the insurance company no longer writes that type of policy. Here in Los Angeles I am aware of two insurance companies who offer this type of insurance, The Hartford offers a 'pet grooming' policy which is inexpensive ( $500 / year ) but is not really comprehensive enough for us aquarium service guys and Golden Eagle which is much more expensive ( $1500+ / year ) but is more specific to our business. The trick is finding a broker who will take the time to understand your needs so you obtain the correct policy.
My current policy covers my three businesses for $1,000.000 plus $20,000 worth of inventory at my home and cost me $2,000 per year. As much as I do not enjoy writing the big check I do feel that this policy covers me appropriately.
Jim Stime, Jr.
Resplendent Group
Aquarium Design www.aquarium-design.com
MyFishTank.com www.myfishtank.com
Midwater Systems www.jelliquarium.com
Centropyge.Net www.centropyge.net
MACNA X www.masla.com/macnax.html
<Thanks Jim... see you later next month! BobF>

Aq. Svc. No Show Policy   8/21/06
Hello WWM Crew,
<Myk>
I have a quick question for you about a policy for my aquarium service business.  What would you recommend for a no show policy?
<Ours was to charge for a/the service call... And charge for a special visit if they wanted one before the next scheduled>
  In other words, when the serviceperson arrives at the clients location and there is nobody home.  I am trying to come up with a policy that is fair since local clients are little more than a scheduling hassle in the event of a no show.
<Mmm, perhaps a "call before and secure appointment" policy for such clients?>
  On the other hand, we do have some clients that are about an hour plus drive away and the time consumed for a no show in this case with the added problem of fuel cost is a big concern for me.  I would be very grateful for any advice.
Thank You,
Michael P. Gillespie
Aquatic Creations LLC.
<We factored in all time... to gather tools, materials, transit to/from in our service charges per customer. Bob Fenner>

Re: No Show Policy   8/21/06
Dear Mr. Fenner,
   <Michael>
  Thank you very much for your response, I will certainly be adjusting my policy!   
   <Glad to share... I "did this" for nineteen years, full-time... as you can likely grasp from reading the postings re the service industry posted on WWM. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
  Best Regards,
  Michael P. Gillespie
  Aquatic Creations LLC.

Aquarium Service and Equipment <help> needed!?   5/23/06
Hi Bob!
<Michael>
I have only recently found your website and articles. Very Nice! I have been in the Hobby for about 10 years now and am looking to get into the service business.
<Did this myself for many years>
I have talked to the few fish stores we have in our area and it seems there is a need for someone to set-up and maintain aquariums. So why not me!!=)
<If this is what you desire>
Pricing has been my biggest problem (difficult to know how your services cost) but I am starting to figure it all out!
<Mmm, three ways to go about this... 1) What you might charge per hour (likely about $35 per in most markets), 2) What others are charging for similar work (perhaps looking at a "rate sheet" of your competitors, and 3) What the market will bear... Whatever system you set upon, I would make it/this "fair, reasonable and consistent"... and per WWM's articles, in written contractual form to/with all your customers>
My next question goes into equipment and how other people do it.
<...? Need a truck or other vehicle... the tools of the trade...>
The way I want to service an aquarium is to bring in a nice filter system in with me, what I call and "service filter" I have seen one on the net once but cannot find it again.
<Can buy or build a "skid unit" likely from a (swimming) pool supply place... but these are bulky, messy... If anything like this I would invest in a few (Vortex Products) Diatom Filters... haul these about "charged", dump, sterilize at the end of the day>
But I would start my service by hooking the filter up to the tank I am servicing and just let it run while I siphon gravel and just clean the tank. And keep it going until the tank is done. Does this sound like a good idea?
<Mmm, yes>
Have you heard of other people doing this?
<Oh yes>
I want a filter that has the ability to cycle through the water maybe twice while I am there.
I know I will need the basics (buckets, nets, etc.) do you have any advice of other equipment that someone just starting not think of?
<Yes... this is posted on our business SubWeb: http://wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm>
Thanks for your help in advance!
Michael
<Do study, keep good notes... You will know what is required, how you'll proceed soon. Bob Fenner>

Building Aq. Service Clientele
Dear WWM Crew,
<Michael>
I own an aquarium service business in NH and I am hoping that you could  give me some guidance or just point me in the right direction in regards to building up a client base.
<Likely so>
I formed my LLC in the middle of January of this year and over the past few months I have tried many different ways to try to find customers.  I have listings in a few of the more popular local yellow pages, in most cases my business is the only listing.
<Mmm, maybe reasons for this...>
I have tried sending out information  packages in a targeted fashion where I call the business ahead of time to see if  they would be interested in receiving the package.  When I call I always  try to get the name of a contact person to send it to and then a week or so  after sending the package I do a follow up call to see if they have any  questions.  
<Good technique>
My web site is listed on some of the aquarium business link  sites that I have found to come up when a search is done for "aquarium service"  or other related searches.  I plan to build some of what I call Ad Display  Systems, which I will set up and maintain for free at some pertinent local  businesses like furniture stores or banks for example.
<Good promo>
With these  systems all I will ask is that I am allowed to place a small table next to the  aquarium with business cards and brochures.   
So far my efforts have been relatively fruitless, the yellow page ad has produced a call for freshwater crabs, and the information packages have produced one dentist office that already has an aquarium that wants only water changes done.  I feel as though I am missing something and that all the time and money I've spent so far has been a waste.
<Is there much existing demand in the area? Are there other folks doing what you do?>
I think that the Ad Display  Systems will be the most likely to produce for me, but this will be pricey and  at this point I'm afraid to spend more money.
<And take a long while to pay off>
Is there something else that's more cost effective or I should say  effective at all that I am not doing?
<... Perhaps a few things. One definitely is regularly visiting, perhaps working at the local fish stores. Particularly ones that do larger, "designer" installs.>
I have this strange feeling that I  am charging in the wrong direction.  If you have any suggestions on a  better way or if there are any links to information that you could guide me to,  it would be very much appreciated.  And as always, I thank you for such a  fantastic, informative resource.
Thank You,
Michael.
<Much to say Michael... You likely need "exposure"... I would sign up, exhibit in "Home Fairs", "Garden Shows" in your area... expand your services to include pond, even fountain services... Do consider some work at a LFS you admire... very illuminating... and will likely lead to accounts. Bob Fenner>

Aq. Svc. Biz    4/6/06
Hey Bob,
My names Ben, I recently finished school, and I have been working at an aquarium for the last two years, and I am passionate about the hobby.
<Good to find this/these early on>
I have decided to take my passion to the next level, and as of the 10th of April I will start my aquarium maintenance service. I am wanting to also service ponds as well as aquariums,
<Good>
but i am not as experienced in ponds, so am reading up as much as i can!! I purchased the Aqua Serve Info pack last year, when the idea first came to me, and its been great!! Thanks heaps!! If you have any advice or tips, or even words of encouragement!! It would be MOST appreciated!!!
Kind Regards
Ben Egan
<Mmm, have a read and reflection here: http://wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm
Much to consider... Go over my "Five Critical Elements"... develop a business, marketing plan... do this... on paper now... and it will help guide, keep you on track. Bob Fenner>

Aquarium maintenance business  2/3/06
I am trying to start a part-time aquarium maintenance business, specializing in freshwater fish and live plants. There are several larger maintenance business in the Chicago area, but most specialize in marine aquariums, and much larger tanks than I plan to service.
   <Okay>
  The type of customers I have in mind are businesses, such as restaurants, hotel lobbies, doctor and dentist offices, hospitals, etc. I would not be opposed to aquariums in private homes, but would prefer public locations. My options would be maintaining existing set-ups, or selling or leasing new set-ups.
   <Did this for 19 years in S. Cal...>
  What advice can you give me for getting started, how to market the business, what rates to charge, selling vs. leasing equipment, growing my own plants or purchasing them, etc.?
     Thanks in advance,
     Jim
<Ahh... please read, starting here: http://wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm
Have you worked in the trade before? I would... for retail and service companies... before committing yourself exclusively. Bob Fenner>

Thanks and a favor 11/2/05
Hi Bob. First thanks for the post a couple months back about our new retail store in Tulsa and employment. We received several calls/emails about jobs for fishgeeks. I finally got our new web site up and would really appreciate it if you could give a section of it 30 minutes of your time. You may not remember me [If I said this in my last email to you sorry to waste your time] but we met on a couple of occasions during my employment as sales manager of Seachem and Sera.
<Do recall>
I have been in this hobby and industry for 20 years and have written lots of stuff I never exposed to anyone other than my Dell. 
<A shame... perhaps not too late...>
The last 5 years of my life was in Atlanta running a service / custom aquarium business. I finally put thoughts, theories, ideas [what I call maintenance articles] on our new site for the shop in Tulsa.
<Outstanding>
I have always put hobbyists into 3 categories beginning, intermediate, and expert [the later term used lightly]. These articles were written exclusively for beginning and intermediate hobbyists. Thus the reason for this email. I really enjoy your writing. I am not a writer, according to my wife just a fishgeek.
<Both are developmental (disorders...) traits/qualities/talents>
In your opinion, am I missing anything for the new guys. The focus of our new business is to encourage more people to get into the hobby [like most retailers]. We have a pretty aggressive marketing campaign scheduled to kick off in about 3 weeks. I wrote this stuff because over the years I heard the same thing... love to have a tank but they are a pain in the a--. I wanted to put a reference guide to the most common questions and problems for beginners and intermediates on our site. 
Any thoughts about what we are missing for these folks would be greatly appreciated.
Sorry for the extended babble.
Very best
Scott M. Kosciolek
President
Premier Aquatics of Oklahoma 
By the way I think I have already caught just not updated the misspellings and grammar issues. 
<Mmm, where's that URL? Cheers, Bob Fenner> 

Re: thanks and a favor 11/2/05
Sorry, it was late last night www.premieraquaticsok.com 
Scott
<A very nice site indeed... The best I have seen of its kind/genre. I very much like the looks, the brevity of the articles, the comparison of flea infestations... Cheers, Bob Fenner> 

Stocking SW service company tanks
Hello again!
<Howdy>
I have this customer with very peculiar taste.
<Heeee!>
  He has a 300g tank, which we are currently upgrading to reef.  I spent 3 hours with him this morning browsing through stocking options online and in books.  We found 6 fish he liked that didn't eat corals or simply die in captivity.
These are the desires of his heart:  
RS Sailfin Tang
Longnose Butterfly
Harlequin Tusk
Volitans Lionfish
Marine Betta
Colored Angler
I have never kept an aggressive reef tank, and I'm not really sure how this will all pan out.  He wants to keep mostly zoos, Shrooms, and LPS.
Obviously there will be no macro-invertebrate life other than corals. All specimens will be medium sized - big enough to not be eaten by one another.  I have slight concerns about the BF's reef compatibility but I think I can make that work.  
<Should be fine>
I have more slight concerns about the frog.
A. Eating the other fish, and B. Getting picked on by the other fish, and C. Being difficult to feed.
<The last is most important, trouble>
  In this size tank with this relatively small medley how much should I really worry?
<Worry? None... plan and be resolved>
Ultimately my customer is interested in having a water garden more than having fish.   
<That's why... it's their system, you have been hired...>
Although isn't necessarily reflected in his final fish choices, he really wants extremely unique fish.  His two favorites are the lion and the frog.  Any other suggestions of fun fish that might fit his arrangement?  He loves boxfish, cowfish, puffers, the Clown Trigger, Dragon Wrasse, Mandarins, Batfish, Filefish, that "type" of fish.
<Let him visit shops... look for himself... No triggers, mandarins though>
I'm sure my queries have been reflected upon by this point, so I thank you!
Scott Johnson
Critter Cabana
<A good idea (one we used with our service customers) was to make, present a greatly shortened "book" list with pix of organisms available... And allow our customers to pick from this... Bob Fenner>

Aquarium Maintenance Insurance
My friend is starting a business - where in the heck can he get insurance? I'm in the insurance business and don't know where to turn. Thanks for your help.
Kathy J. Smith
<Some small business liability policies will include riders for such "wet work". Bob Fenner, who spent nineteen years in the service side of the industry.> 

New Aquarium Service Business
Hi Bob
<Nate>
I have been involved in the aquatics business for about eight years now, the last two of which I have spent running an LFS. I had been considering buying a share of the store with a back end type deal (I don't have much capital to invest with), but the building was sold. It looks as though we will be unable to secure a new lease after the current one is expired, so I am preparing to start my own full-time aquarium maintenance service. I am totally confident in my knowledge and ability to perform the job, but I have a few questions about some particulars.
<Go ahead>
First, I am unsure if I should market my service toward a particular type of clientele or make a more broad range approach.
<At first, take what you can that is profitable>
My true passion is planted tanks and customers at my store frequently remark that my display plant tanks are among the most beautiful they've ever seen. That being said, I wonder if should say that I specialize in plant tanks or if that would scare off potential customers who have reef tanks or unplanted freshwater tanks.
<All that you are comfortable with providing service for... including ponds, fountains, lakes...>
Another question I have is how profitable it would be for me to have holding tanks at my house for high volume livestock.
<Some, not much>
I am thinking primarily of algae eating shrimp and Otocinclus for freshwater tanks and reef hermits and snails for saltwater tanks. I already have relationships with many wholesalers in the area and can acquire these animals easily. How much of the livestock that I put in my customers' aquariums would be worth me purchasing and reselling? 
<In actual practice, not much... Think about this... why it's called "service" business... You are in essence selling your time... as in time is money... The more time you spend "fooling" with livestock, getting it, keeping it... is money not being made by selling your time... You want/need some livestock on hand or readily available, but as little as possible/practical>
The timing of my jump into the service sector is also troubling. As soon as I leave my current job the store will likely go out of business, as the owner is absentee and running an LFS in a different state. As such, I will be left with no LFS to refer customers to me; the only other big one around has it's own service department with five full time employees (the market here is HUGE). Do you think it would be worthwhile to try to get the big box stores like Petco and Petsmart, of which there are five within a twenty mile radius of my home, to refer customers to me?
<Mmm, no, not likely... They, as companies will not do this for liability reasons... and their employees may run afoul of company business for referring you... or be doing service themselves. Better to "beat the streets" (and soon) and locate existing customers who will look over a competing bid... And start doing installs from the current shop. You do have awareness of the next/upcoming "Yellow Page" ad schedule?>
I don't know if their corporate policy allows for these types of things to happen. Also, I would much prefer to cater to the clients who are more upper-end in their taste, although that might be a little judgmental on my part about people who buy their fish from the chain stores. My best scenario that I can think of would be to have my service business ready to go, then work for one month or so at my current job while handing out my own business card and acquiring a good client list. Do you have any ideas that may be superior to this one?
<Keep working both... to the point of exhaustion... When the store is gone...>
Thanks for taking the time and I appreciate your insight
Nate
<I'd chat about and see if you can't find an up and going service company to work for, partner up with... Your own will take a few years to develop... really. Bob Fenner> 

Sick eels, please help
I have a 300 gallon salt water live reef tank. About two weeks ago my wolf eel (had it for 6 months) started hiding, just laying around in one spot and stop eating. He is sick.
<Mmm, not necessarily... and this fish is not a true eel, but a Dottyback family member>
I asked the guy that takes care of my tank, what is going on? He does not know too much about eels, just that it happens. When I lived in Hawaii I had a 150 salt water tank with a zebra eel for 8 years, he never got sick.
<Gymnomuraena zebra is a great aquarium species>
Well, today my snow flake eel (I've had him for 9 months) is lying on it's side, I think he is dead. he was fine yesterday. The odd thing about this is that the snowflake eel is lying on the sand and the wolf eel is lying on top of the snow flake eel.
<Coincidence likely>
Please tell me what you think is going on.
Thank you,
Robin
<Strange loss... I take it you check your water quality often, feed all well... perhaps something the one ate, or touched... Bob Fenner> 

Re: sick eels, please help...
What's really odd is every time the guy who services my tank comes he never checks the quality of the water in the tank.
<?!>
I questioned him on this and he says, "Oh it's a live reef tank, you do not need to check the water quality." All he does when he comes is refill the back up container with distilled water and cleans the glass. I'm beginning to think I've been put together.
<... I beg to differ... most simpler systems can "get by" w/ simple observation of livestock, routine water changes... An expensive, large reef system? I suspect "additives" are being utilized... perhaps a calcium reactor... Everything that is being supplemented must need be tested for... MUST! Else imbalances are a foregone conclusion>
The big question..... Does the water quality of a live reef tank need to be balanced and checked.
<Uh, yes>
One more thing in January I lost 12 beautiful fish to ick. The fish service guy said for me to by some natural stuff (I forget the name) and treat the water. When I could not get or find about 5 of the dead fishes, I asked him to come out and find them in the rocks and remove them, he said, no need they will disintegrate. How true is this.
<... if small biomass, this laziness can be tolerated...>
Okay, so I just called the fish guy and he is coming out to my house this afternoon, should he be removing the dead eels (I would think so) and checking the water?
Please advise.
<... I maintained such systems (we had the largest service company on the planet) for about two decades... You should shop around for someone else. Bob Fenner> 

Old NEI/ALS Ops Manual pieces
Mr. Fenner- I have seen in several places where you mention that you would, and have put part/all of your employee manual on this site. After several days of looking, I have yet to be able to find it. If it is on your site, could you please direct me to a direct link to it? Thanks for your help and keep up the great work!
John Crosby
<Yes John... most all is placed on the Aquatics Business SubWeb on WWM. Please use the Index here: http://wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm.  I do hope at sometime in the not-too-distant future to somewhat reproduce all the Operations Manuals we developed... in a more useful/complete manner... with titles, tables of contents, position contracts... Bob Fenner>

- Scuba Trade Show for Service Company Exposure -
Hello Crew,
<Hi.>
I need some advice from people who been around in this business.  I own a aquarium maintenance company which builds and installs aquariums.  I would like to increase my client base and was thinking of purchasing a booth at a local scuba diving trade show.  Would you think this is a good idea? <At a dive show, not really... I'm sure booth space isn't all that cheap for starters, which means you'll have to produce an amount of business equal to your outlay for the time, space, and materials for a booth. Secondly, and this is just a generalization, but very few divers I've met are also involved in the aquarium hobby; in fact many of them can't give a scientific name for a single fish. Success will also depend on the type of show - local or national. For instance, if this were the DEMA show [a large national dive show]... most of the folks in attendance would be from out of town, so your rate of exposure to local folks would be very low. This in itself is not a true indicator of how "your" booth will do, but I do think your advertising monies could be better spent on other avenues.>
In general do you think that the trade show route is effective? <Depends on the type of trade show - I'd think you'd get much better exposure to the type of people you want/need as clients by getting space in a Home Show, or similar type of venue where the folks walking by are interested in modifications to their home, or are planning a new home. Most folks at dive shows are going to be interested in new scuba gear, making buys for their dive shops, and/or new dive destinations. On the other hand, occupying space in any trade show is rarely cheap, so you need to spend your money wisely.>
Thank you,
Melissa
<Cheers, J -- >

- Starting up a Service Biz -
Hello,
I am looking into starting an aquarium install and maintenance business.  I would like to set a polypropylene (or other) tank, pump (maybe diaphragm type), and hose reel system on a trailer for service jobs.  Do you have a source for these items? <Currently, these would mostly come from separate sources, easily found by using Google or similar Internet search engine. I've been prodded many times to create a line of items for service professionals to make a one stop shop for such items... perhaps now is the time.> Also, any suggestions for setup? <Setup of what, exactly?>
Thanks
Chris
<Cheers, J -- >

Aquarium service business...
I think that this should be addressed to Bob Fenner but anyone else can feel free to provide their input!
<Okay>
Excellent web site!
I don't know if this is the right email address to send this query to but my question is related to the business side of aquatics.
<Fire away!>
I live in Geneva, Switzerland and I think there could be an excellent opportunity in the region for a professional customer orientated aquarium installation and service business here.  I am currently investigating the project and putting together a plan for it.
<Sounds good>
Myself I have been involved in freshwater aquaria as a hobby for about 20 years now and have a lot of experience in heavily planted show aquariums.  I do not as yet have any hands on experience in marine aquariums.
<You will>
From a business point of view, I have a lot of experience in an unrelated field (telecommunications).  This experience includes sales, marketing as well as operations of small companies.  I was involved in several start-up ventures as well.  So I have the necessary financial, business, marketing and operational know-how and experience for starting a business.
<All very valuable experiences, skill sets to apply to your aquarium service venture>
My questions are as follows:
-        In this type of business, I assume the principal market is either companies/organizations who want a show tank in their lobby or wealthy individuals.  Is my assumption correct?
<Yes... and to a lesser extent, public venues like airports, schools...>
  I can't see the majority of individuals willing to pay money for aquarium installation or maintenance.
Correct me if I'm wrong.  Would love to hear that the market is actually larger than I'm imagining at the moment!
<The market in almost all "advanced" societies, countries I've visited is much larger than is being filled>
-        How detrimental is the fact that initially I won't be able to offer services in marine aquaria?  Is it enough that I can start with a thorough knowledge and ability to install beautiful planted freshwater tanks or should I wait and get the marine experience first?
<Only you can/will be able to determine this... Perhaps a liaison/partnership with someone who is well-versed in marine will get you by here... or some time spent in a marine retail setting? Some folks just specialize (in marines, freshwater, ponds, lakes, fountains...) but I encourage you to "do" all kinds of aquariums to start>
Your input based on your experiences would be of immense help!
Many thanks!
Regards,
Laith Arif
<Glad to offer you my input. Bob Fenner>

Aquarium service business...
Bob,
<Laith>
Ok, I've lined up wholesale pricing for aquarium equipment and started to prospect different businesses.  So far, in one week, three companies have asked me to make them proposals; they are very interested in the concept.
<Outstanding>
In order to have some type of base pricing to work off of, I've done pricing based on several "standard" configurations.  The "standard" offer is two types of systems: what I'm calling "Africa" (African cichlid tank, few or no plants) and "Amazon" (heavily planted tank).  These two systems are offered in three volumes: 200L, 400L and 600L (that would be about 55G, 105G and 160G).  All pricing is based on systems that I install, not existing systems.
<Okay>
Based on the fact that heavily planted aquariums require more work than an African cichlid tank, I've put together a monthly service fee for each type and size of aquarium which includes everything (travel, all supplies, etc).
<Will travel be "equal" for all? Approximately? I mean, are all possible sites about the same time away?>
Included in each monthly service fee are a certain number of hours, spread
over four visits a month.  I've calculated based on 8, 10 and 12 hours a
month respectively for the African systems and 10, 12 and 15 hours a month
for the heavily planted systems.  Any extra hours will incur an additional
hourly charge.
<Sounds good>
Given an average hourly price of US$ 44 (normal pricing here for specialized type of services) and including supplies, the monthly price for a 600L planted aquarium works out to US$ 850 a month.
<Yikes... does seem a bit high, but... does this include the system, supplies, livestock?>
Would just like an opinion: does the above make sense in practice (especially the number of hours per month)?  I'm wondering whether US$ 850 a month may seem steep for a prospective customer at first glance and whether it makes more sense from a sales point of view to just give an hourly price and an estimate of number of hours per month.
<Is there a simple way for you to check, see what your competitors are charging? Like appraisals of real estate, there are a few ways to arrive at "the going rate" or what to charge... one is what the "market will bear" in terms of current practices>
Once again, many thanks for your help and input!  The feedback from the local market I've gotten so far has been more positive that I had hoped: I really think this type of business can really take off (and so far, I don't see any competition!).
Regards,
Laith
<It may well be that you will find making bimonthly or every two week visits sufficient, more marketable than the current plan... Bob Fenner>

Re: Aquarium service business...
Bob,
<Laith>
Thanks for your valuable input.  Now that I've got you, I'm not going to let you go yet! :-)
Another couple of questions if I may...
<Proceed>
Not having ever seen an aquarium install/service contract (do you know where I could take a long at an example?), I've come up with the following possible pricing models:
<Best to modify a service "type" contract per your country's laws, trends... from an unrelated field... plumbing, cabinetry, gardening...>
- A "rental" model where the entire set-up (including fish and plants) belongs to me and I charge the customer a monthly rent (calculated on my purchase price + 10% divided by 12) with a minimum 12 month rental contract.
<Minimums are a good idea>
- A purchase model where the customer buys the entire set-up from me.
<Yes>
What is your opinion on the above? Is one better than the other?
<We had both of these... plus "inclusive" and non-inclusive service contracts where we included all... livestock, food, salt mix... versus keeping track and charging the customer for supplies as we went along, monthly>
On top of the above models will come an install charge and a monthly "service" charge.
<Yes... best to figure out what you want to charge by the hour... and calculate this into your contracts based on the distances to be traveled, time to gather tools and materials... per account, job>
What is the best way for the service charge to be calculated?  A fixed monthly amount (plus materials) based on size of tank and complexity of set-up? Or a straight hourly charge, letting the customer know that their tank will need about X hours of maintenance per month?
<The best is hourly... some quite small systems are much more trouble than larger ones based on their gear, construction, distance/difficulty to get to, times you can schedule to get into see them... think of aquariums at a restaurant that were poorly set-up let's say and that get a lot of wear and tear to keep clean... compared with a system you engineered and installed.>
Your insight much appreciated! Just trying to make sure I don't go off in completely the wrong direction...
<Glad to help you in your success. Bob Fenner>
Regards,
Laith

Re: Aquarium service business...
Bob,
Thanks for your reply.  Some answers to your questions:
- Re travel: yes, I've based it on a number of km that would cover 90% of my initial market.  I would refine it more for specific proposals with a definite location...
<Sounds good>
- The price includes everything except the system (tank and associated equipment).  That would be an additional US$450 a month.  So the US$ 1,300 (450 plus 850) includes everything except the fish and plants.  This is for a 160G heavily planted "hi tech" aquarium (includes CO2, pH controller, auto feeder, auto fert doser, etc) that I estimate would require 15 hours a month of work to keep it looking very good...
<Not unrealistic... considering the time it takes for transit, gathering tools and materials, administrative...>
(As a comparison, a 55G "African" tank would be US$ 465 monthly service with 8 hours a month and US$ 135 monthly rental of the system).
At first glance the price does seem high but keep in mind that out of the 850, 660 is just the hourly charge (based on 44/hour and 15 hours a month).
<Yes... and that gas there is something like $6.40 a gallon, and sixty some dollars a day (plus five dollar a day entry "fee") to park in London... in other words, it's expensive to live, work in the UK>
Re competition and market pricing: As far as I have been able to ascertain, the only service of this type is mainly installation of aquariums and that's done by employees of an LFS oh his or her own time at an hourly rate, mainly for private homes.  I have not been able to find a comparable service in the whole region.
<Interesting>
So, I don't have any "yardstick" to measure my pricing against besides the feedback of customers...  The above pricing is cost based (plus margins) and not market based.
<I understand... and strongly suspect you'll soon be gathering more "data points" going forward>
I'm hesitant to lower the number of hours because I realize that each aquarium that's installed is a living advertisement for my business.  I want people to say "wow!" when they see it and then ask who did that for the company.  If the tank doesn't look good, that easily turns into negative advertising.
<Very good point. The single most important "promotion" for your business period is the work you've done, your customers impressions thereof>
A bit long but I wanted to let you know my thinking behind the price structure.
<Thank you>
It may help me if I had an idea what it would cost a company in the US to have someone maintain a similar system.  Can you give me a ballpark figure?
<I'll guess somewhere about half of your stated figures>
The other option is to lower margins at least initially in order to get a customer base...
<Yes... you'll soon know which path to tend to. Bob Fenner>
Thanks!
Laith

Re: Aquarium service business...
Ok, many thanks for your helpful inputs and comments... your time spent is much appreciated.
<Pleasure>
I'll let you know how it goes with the first proposals! :-)
<Real good>
Just a correction: I'm in Geneva, Switzerland, not the UK.
<Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding>
  And the cost of living is higher here than the UK (except for gas because it's taxed less), with the exception possibly of central London.
<Yikes!>
Interesting, half the price for a similar service in the US.  I'm just curious, what is the normal hourly rate for this service in the US (just wondering whether it's half of US$ 44)?
<We billed our service time at $35 per hour lastly... had "very tight" routes and a good system for planning (account folders, pre-made tool sets, ready-available foods and other supplies and livestock...) for our service tech.s>
Regards,
Laith
<Bob Fenner>

Introduction and input, aquatic startup business
Mr. Fenner, hope you are doing well today. I write you to explain my business, who I am and hopefully open up a channel of communication from which I can learn a bit from someone who has owned the type of company I plan to own.
<Okay>
I am 26, and live in north Dallas. I have about 11 years experience with aquariums and salt water keeping, and have worked for 4 years in the industry both in retail and service. After a brief 5 year break to the computer industry I realized I didn't care for it, and aquatics was my true calling (I love anything to do with water). The only reason I left service was I needed more then $7 an hour!
<I understand... Hopefully folks there can charge something closer to a "living wage" now>
So here I sit, laid off with no income, and a chance to do what I have been talking about since I was 16, and enter the industry. I plan to incorporate an aquarium service business in the next couple weeks, and have most things laid out and planned I hope. I have 1 customer that is a friend of a friend, whose tank I clean weekly for cost + $5 (need to raise that a little it takes 2-3 hours lol). Hopefully he will be a good source of future customers, he owns a home theatre company that does $60,000 installs...anyways to the point!
I finally got a chance to start reading your book! So far so good, though I am only about 60 pages in. I found something that really excited me, as I knew my business idea had potential, and I may of realized a resource for advice if I am lucky.
Under Avoiding Electrical Hazards, you say " For 18 years, I was part owner of a company that specialized in ornamental aquatic work. Our service division designed, built, installed, and maintained live holding systems, mainly large marine systems in commercial and wealthy residential settings"
<Yes>
This niche market is what I have built my business plan around. Though I plan to offer the sales, design and installation, I have only 'done the numbers' for the service aspect. Any new setups will be bonus and hopefully an additional customer.
I plan to offer weekly or biweekly (mainly weekly) service that includes 20% water changes each visit. This will include biweekly exchange of filter pads and carbon etc, 20% water change, fish quarantine at my house, skimmer maint. CO2, etc... Full aquarium management, requiring little more then feeding from the owner (and not even that if it can be avoided and use fish that can survive eating once a week when I am there). For a monthly cost of about $400-$500 for a 200 gallon tank. I do not want to go to a tank once a month, for $50 and clean it and go to the next one, and take care of 100 tanks a month. I would much rather take care of 10-12 'elite' tanks for wealthy residents or companies, and do it right and have the most amazing looking aquariums in Texas...(water changes are the best way to do it no?)
<As part of regular upkeep, yes>
I would like to only do large marine, and freshwater plant tanks. Minimum size of 100 gallons. However in the mean time as I build a customer base, should I look into servicing the 'lower quality' tanks and less wealthy clients on a monthly basis to produce income and history? 
<I would, yes>
I am sort of torn on this, as at some point I will have to give up these customers to make room for my target market. This seems unethical, people get attached to their aquarium service company and technician, I'm not sure doing temporary service is a good thing...
<I encourage you to examine yourself, your market there closely... and consider doing "one-shot" clean-outs, consulting... even on water features (ponds, fountains)... much good work there that ties in with what you are currently interested in, can become proficient at>
I would like to hear your input into this venture, and any possible tips or things to watch for or know regarding that niche of the market, and a friendly contact to help lead me down the right path when needed.
<Much to discuss... for now, how will you go about soliciting new customers, making potential buyers aware of you, your service?>
...Almost forgot! Most of all do you think this idea has potential? I am in the DFW market, there are a dozen other service companies, but none structured in this way. A good amount of money here in general.
<Yes. We were there a couple years back for the MACNA show... a large, burgeoning, dynamic place for sure>
Thanks a lot for all you do for the industry and hobby.
Mark Wolek
ps. post your upcoming red sea pictures when you get back!!
<Will be doing so. Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

RE: Introduction and input, aquatic startup business
Wow thank you for the fast reply. I'm not sure I follow what you mean by "one-shot" clean-outs?
<Oh. One time deals... like cleaning out or re-setting up a system, seasonal one shot jobs>
For advertising, I had planned to rely mostly on word of mouth, and handing out cards and brochures to some local shops that do not offer service, and maybe some that do offer service but cannot afford to spend 2-3 hours weekly with 1 client, offering a referral fee to them for customers who use my service for a certain length of time (likely 1 month with weekly service for a $100 referral bonus to the contact). A website of course. Word of mouth of good quality customer service tends to spread fast in affluent cultures, my target goal is only 1 new service account a quarter, I feel I can handle 10 by myself and be profitable. (2 a day). I have not given much thought to soliciting new design setups, other then PetCo / PetSmart type places that do not deal in the types of things my customers would want. Possibly targeted mailings, my step mom has the mailing list of one of Dallas's most expensive jewelry shops for example, or sent to CEOs of larger business with beautiful pictures of aquascapes on the envelope to get them to open it. Perhaps work with other service companies in the area, if they have customers that require weekly attention they cannot handle due to volume (is this even likely?).
<All sounds good... keep your passing lanes open as the saying goes in soccer... perhaps visiting dentist, doctor's offices, businesses known to have service, even from existing companies>
One service I plan to offer once I have a few accounts is a livestock swapping program, in which frags and plant cuttings are traded and shared amongst my customers all through me, all they know is something grew, I cut it off, and brought back something different! My hope is in time this can grow to a subsidiary of my company dealing in the propagation of corals and FW plants for wholesale and scientific use. Yes I am talking 10+ years out.
<A good long time frame. I did service work for nineteen years...>
One service I had planned to offer is an "aquarium rebuild". They have a tank, that is old and nasty and ugly and UGH, but they saw finding Nemo and want a reef now. In the end they have a new much larger tank and basically a whole new setup?
I once serviced a 50 gallon aquarium that had housed salt water fish I believe. From the looks of the tank, it had 20 fish and was fed a flat a day of food. The tank had been sitting stagnant with pumps running (but not moving water) for days to weeks. The tank had not had a water change or been cleaned ever, in over 2 years. The water was black, the 3" of crushed coral on the bottom was a SOLID brick, it was the most disgusting thing I have ever seen. Could of built a house out of it. In the end I did a water change and cleaned it as best I could and we never heard from her again.
<Good riddance>
This is NOT at all what I want to do, but rather what I want to avoid. Customers like this should be charged $60-$120 an hour to pay for what they have done to the aquarium IMO, especially if they have no interest in learning or doing it right. Too many people out there like that, I have a friend who has a goldfish tank he cleans every other year!! I can't talk him into doing otherwise cause the fish never die.
<Perhaps he'll be reincarnated as a fish in a similar situation, hmmm?>
Initial design and install is what I like most, I love drawing out and doing sump / plumping designs etc.. I read Anthony's book and now want a system that would require a bigger filter room then aquarium, but what is the market for that? 
<It is huge, but spotty, and takes a while to become known... do apply for jobs in the public sector, including aquariums... and never fail to return a call to a designer, architect, engineer who works on such projects>
Not enough to support a business for any length of time I wouldn't think. Typically the cost of setup and install is very low with very little mark up on the dry goods used. People go to aquarium and pet stores to buy tanks when they don't know anything, and are often sold very wrong and poor items, maybe I could do just that but how do you out advertise an aquarium store with a retail front...
<Not easily done. I WOULD add consultancy to your ads, biz cards, lists of services provided>
again. sorry for the long winded email...I always feel guilty when I write a book of info you really don't need, but I feel you need to know the situations to give good input. A fish died. That doesn't tell you much... That the story of that nasty tank I had to clean is worth sharing.
<Yes. When will you visit stores, get going on your promotion of your business. Bob F>

RE: Introduction and input, aquatic startup business
"If you're incorporated you'll have to pay someone to file for you AND file again for yourself... don't waste your time, resources"
What other options are there? Maybe my bad use of words, I assumed incorporate to mean officially file and start the business with the state and tax id etc...I have been told my options are sole proprietor, LLC, or S type corp. 
<Yes... or partnerships of various types... and variations of these. Just go sole proprietor for now>
I know I can file online and do all the paper work myself, since I want to protect my house I believe sole prop is out, leaving LLC or S Type corp. Am I wrong? Sounds like I should at least spend the $150 to talk to an accountant for an hour perhaps and go from there.
Mark
<Mark, please read through the articles posted on www.WetWebMedia.com's Business section... Whether you're incorporated or not, if you damage someone's person or property you're going to pay... Know the job and do it and don't worry. The/A guiding light is whether you sleep well at night. I do. Bob Fenner>

Re: Introduction and input, aquatic startup business
"Mark, please read through the articles posted on www.WetWebMedia.com's Business section... Whether you're incorporated or not, if you damage someone's person or property you're going to pay... Know the job and do it and don't worry. The/A guiding light is whether you sleep well at night. I do. Bob Fenner"
A very interesting point worth noting. I had always been thinking the what if case, accidents do happen, but I guess that is why I have insurance. It sounds like all I have to do is register the name, and get a tax ID and I'm set to go. Do wholesalers have any issues with selling to a sole proprietor? 
<None>
I have read through the business section many times, but most of it is geared towards a retail or wholesale store and systems etc, though there is a lot of relevant info there I'm not seeing the specifics I am looking for :(
<Mmm, I will look about to see if our old Service Co. Operations Manual is extant and send it along to you for review, use. Bob Fenner>

Re: Introduction and input, aquatic startup business
"Oh. One time deals... like cleaning out or re-setting up a system, seasonal one shot jobs. "
Hmm not a bad idea really the more I think about it, I am loving your book and though I know most of the info so far, there are always new pieces of info to be gained or reinforced. One thing standing out in my mind is your mention to aquascaping as being your favorite part, I will have to agree there and say it is mine as well. I am really starting to like the idea of design and install. I have had many compliments on the seamlessness of my rock stacks :)
<One shots are nice for the money, convenience of scheduling... but the real deal is indeed putting in the "right" stuff such that the accounts are easy to maintain, keep the animals alive w/o fighting other people's mistakes and old gear.>
"All sounds good... keep your passing lanes open as the saying goes in soccer... perhaps visiting dentist, doctor's offices, businesses known to have service, even from existing companies"
Yes for sure, the vet I take my ferrets to down the road has a 55 in the lobby, it is pretty bleak but the fish look as if they have been there for a few years. ridiculously large fat tetras is always a sign lol. I found out the tank is being cared for by an employee, it will be one of the first places I visit. There are a few local hospitals with large tanks, they all looked very good though so I may not bother.
<Do ask who does these tanks, if they'd entertain a bid for switching, upgrading perhaps>
"A good long time frame. I did service work for nineteen years..."
I think in time it will pay for larger endeavors and support me kindly.
The first things I will invest in is 2, ~100 gallon drums for the truck, no lugging water jugs ugh!
<I've seen some really neat rigs... my faves as all aluminum trailers with Nalgene tanks, hose reels... and pumps... what a breeze for delivering pre-made water, R.O....>
"It is huge, but spotty, and takes a while to become known... do apply for jobs in the public sector, including aquariums... and never fail to return a call to a designer, architect, engineer who works on such projects"
Great ideas, had not thought of designers and the like. How to larger companies and corporations usually go about obtaining their aquariums?
<A mix... some folks "know somebody", others get someone to search (generally the "Yellow Pages" so you've got to have some coverage there), but big jobs are often "spec.ed" from the get-go in plans (hence the need to be in with designers, architects, engineer firms...) on plans... and VERY often whoever's name is ON the plans (as in YOU) who have helped call out gear et al. get called and DO the install and continue with service>
At the moment I am entertaining interviews for technical computer positions (what I did for awhile) due to the money and that I am very broke...I am not sure a startup aquarium design / service company will pay my bills for the first year, if not longer. If I do get it going I may just entertain a job at PetSmart or the like to supplement the income and maybe make new contacts.
<Apply, become yourself... a mark of true character is what one does with ones chances, choices, time... Get out there and "kick out the jams" as the saying goes... Do the time in retail, and use the exposure there to generate installs, accounts, one-shots... and build your business>
"Not easily done. I WOULD add consultancy to your ads, biz cards, lists of services provided"
It already is there, I think I may pursue this aspect further.
"Yes. When will you visit stores, get going on your promotion of your business. Bob F"

Licenses
Do I need a license to do things like replace receptacles with GFI's, tap into plumbing lines, run things through walls? I'm sure you don't know the Texas specifics, but in general does one need a plumbing, electrician or general contractor type license to perform these minor tasks? Having problems with a pricing plan as well but I'll work on that myself some more :)
Mark
<You likely do need a subcontractor's license. I had a C-27 which was mostly for landscapers, but allowed us to do bits of carpentry, electrical, plumbing, tile... as long as all was to code, and to hire two other sub-specialties per job. Ask you "Consumer Affairs Board" re contracting in your state. Bob Fenner>

Reef leasing?
Hi Bob- 
<Chip> 
I met you in Raleigh NC at Jeff's store and the subsequent party. I was the guy who thought infrared must produce some thermal effect after passing through a fair amount of seawater... 
<Ah, yes> 
If that didn't scare you off, I was hoping to get your advice. As this point I am trying to talk myself out of this idea, as there must be something wrong with it I don't see yet. 
<Let's hear it> 
I have been talking to some business guys around here about starting a commercial Reef Conservancy company that would provide a membership to commercial facilities that purchase reef setups. It appears to me that there is a lack of long-term incentives in the industry for maintaining commercial reef setups; the maintenance is fragmented; the pet shops are dying of too much floor space in the face of the Internet people; and purchasers have no group buying power or influence over total system design. 
<Not much margin here...> 
Sooo- the Reef Conservancy provides franchises to the pet shops. The pet shop originates what amounts to a lease for a fixed period of time. But what they contract for is a membership; the commercial facility does not own the equipment. They get their usual commercial markup, plus a loan origination fee which is paid out over the term of the membership/lease. the Reef 
Conservancy provides the loan; as the loan is capitalized, the members monthly fee stays the same.  The extra funds are used to provide better pay to the maintenance people. Monthly billing for Reef Conservancy tanks are handled by the central office, at a somewhat higher fee than free-lance people. As profits increase, they are shared between the home office and the maintenance people.  The maintenance people would be rolled up into Reef Conservancy representatives. Although they still generate the same profit for the LFS, they can now cover for other Reef Conservancy dealers. 
<The vast majority of people in the service sector of our interest are very independent...> 
The control office would require captive bred and other reef conservation measures; growing corals would colonize other Reef Conservancy tanks. This is an advantage of not owning one tank, but rather being a member among other commercial establishments. In essence, there would be one tank with many locations.  Providing standardized maintenance, and central buying, would all help the industry.  I have talked this over with people from the furniture rental industry, and the flower rental industry, and some local bankers. I see some potential problems such as tank failures, and repos requiring some risk sharing for the LFS.  I wonder if you could kill this idea for me- or, suggest a group of people who might represent regional folks to get some scale and buying power and elbow grease into this?  -Chip "Darth" Matthews MD  
"He gets his self-esteem from the pet industry" Matthews 
<It's a worthy idea... though one fraught with a not-too promising outlook (IMO of course). You will find the stores resistant... and a need for a considerable outlay of capital and much TIME... it will take years for this concept to "roll out"... but if you have the time (years, thousands of hours) this could work out well (enough) to provide satisfaction in the realization that you are "adding value" to the trade and the planet. Bob Fenner>

Tank Maintenance, the biz
Hi again, my name is Darrin and after much reading on your web site and Bob's book I have decided to proceed with setting up a part time business doing maintenance on Aquariums in the Edmonton, AB, Canada area. I feel there definitely is a market here.
<Good>
I hope that you can offer some assistance here, I have just set up my web page http://members.shaw.ca/plas7208/ and am now trying to get my site out there in cyberspace and get some people contacting me.
<Stop. You will find it much more profitable to be more proactive in seeking customers, new work. Two things I definitely would do: 1) Make up flyers and go to likely businesses (restaurants, doctors and dentists offices...) and ask for work... with a portfolio to share pix, pricing for your work... and your URL on your flyer, business cards of course, 2) Make deals with the local retailers... Especially if they don't do installs, have ongoing maintenance themselves... do this work for them, and in turn either pay them for supplies, livestock, or directly for leads>
I'm not sure who would be good when it comes to aquariums (besides yourselves of course) to list my links and how to. You will also notice I put pics of your book on my site and am very willing to put a link to this site also if you let me.
<Anyone is welcome to link with us>
I am also unsure what the common procedure here is when it comes to maybe getting people to sign waivers etc in case of tank problems or what.. I mean if someone's $300 Trigger dies from natural causes I sure don't want to be paying for it....
<In practice this is done either as "all-inclusive accounts", where you supply all (food, salt mix, livestock...) for a fixed fee per month, or as a no-quarantine sale on the accounts part (within reason)>
Any assistance would be GREATLY appreciated and I will owe you big, sorry bigger than I already do for all the knowledge passed on.
Regards,
Darrin
<Press on my friend. We are here to help you. Bob Fenner>

- Starting an Aquarium Service Business -
Hope you are all doing well today, I have a few questions regarding starting up a service business.
I have about 5 years experience (6 years ago) in the industry, 2 years in service the rest in retail.   I was laid off from work about 3 weeks ago, and there's not much going on in the IT area, and I don't care for it anyways.   I left the aquarium industry to make more money, I believe if I had my own aquarium related company I could make the more money I was missing before.   I seem to remember enjoying my days servicing aquariums... for the most part :-)
My question is about estimating revenues.  Without a retail front, getting customer base will be slow, and very word of mouth oriented, I don't see that many ways to advertise other then the yellow pages and maybe some flyers / mail stuffings... Given the different size aquariums, packages, equipment, no 2 customers will be charged the same mount (well I'm sure some will)... so how to you estimate revenues?  
With the math did, charging around $50 as a minimum service for aquariums up to a certain size, likely 75 or 90 gallons, and increasing from there. <Actually... this might be how your sliding scale will 'work' but if I were you I'd stick to an hourly rate. Better than that though, is to work backwards - what are your expenses going to be? Work those out first, then you'll know what your revenues NEED to be... start calculating what it will take to produce that amount of work.>  Going off of that, I figure I can handle about 20-25 accounts a month by myself, 5 a day, 5 days a week. <Don't forget travel time in-between.> Trying to be realistic. <Don't think it would be easy to do more than that in a day - average account is about 1.5 hours, extra time to jaw with the customer, not including getting to and from the location.> At that rate, 20 monthly repeating customers with the minimum service fees, will get me around $95,000 in revenues yearly.  I think in service that would be a good sized profit, and can only go up by adding employees. <Something like that... again, without expenses in that equation... no way to know what the profit will actually be.>  Is this a good way to estimate? <Must also calculate expenses.> What about bigger tanks that may cost 100-200 a month to service? <Go hourly... will solve all problems.>
Which leads to my next question, do 500 gallon aquariums really cost $400+ to maintain monthly? <Probably... will take much time to check in on, clean, do the water change, have something go wrong, clean up after yourself - how much time would that take you? It all gets back to time and materials.> I guess it depends on the amount of work and number of visits... I have seen service companies advertise $1 / gallon, that would be $500 to clean the tank monthly, that sounds ridiculous to me!! <Don't knock it until you try it... you'll be charging those rates yourself soon enough.>
Other outfits I have seen charge hourly, I don't think this fits either, to much room for customer disagreement, etc... <What's to argue? The appointment takes what it takes as long as you don't take time out of the appointment to make popcorn in the customer's microwave.> I feel the only way to fairly charge for service is by quote... base prices based on gallon ranges, addition money for RO water, additional money for salt, if you have 2 overflow boxes, and other equipment... added to the base price of service for a custom price for your aquarium, after all no two are the same are they. <To each their own I think. Do believe that the ala cart system of pricing will inevitably lead to folks saying things like - I don't want to pay for salt this month - which is ridiculous. Make it an hourly rate for your time, perhaps cut a break if you get a weekly commitment rather than every two weeks. Many tanks in the same size range - 55-75 will take the same time to service, time to carry your equipment in the door set-up, tear down, make water, etc... should be the same price if you charge by time.>
Also what is a realistic customer base to expect in 1 years time?  I'm sure there's a lot of variables, just looking for an estimate. <That's quite variable and hard to predict. Perhaps more information about your available market, what you can expect to wring out of that...>
Lastly, as I said I was laid off, and thusly have no source of income at the moment.   Are there loans that will allow me to pay my cost of living as well? <Would look into small business or personal loans, perhaps something inter-family otherwise.>  i.e. if my bills add up to $20,000 a year, would it be realistic to ask a bank or lender (non private funding) for a loan of $40,000 to startup an aquarium service?  This would include my living costs, as well as money to buy a truck, and other equipment. <Need to work on your business plan some more - is what you would present to a lender to show that you've got a business worth investing in.>
Thanks in advance, you guys are always a wealth of information.
Mark
<Cheers, J -- >

- Fish Expert Maintenance Guy not Working Out... -
Hi there, We have a 250 gal marine tank in our offices which is our pride and joy. Although we do what we can day to day, we are pretty much mugs in terms of knowledge, and rely on external contractors for tank maintenance. <A very common scenario with tanks in businesses. It can be very problematic though should something go wrong when the maintenance man can't make it...> On the advice of a self-proclaimed 'expert', we have recently  befitted our 250 gal marine tank with loads of live rock, skimmers, new lighting etc. The guy charged us £3,500 for the gear and his time <Not sure what that is in $, excuse my non-fish real world ignorance!> - then on the first day a 'mysterious one-off problem' with the timers had the halides left on over the weekend, boiling the water to almost 100% and killing 70% of our fish family which we had nurtured over the previous four years. It upset everyone here - but not his doing apparently? <If he set the timers it's his fault...> Things picked up after the disaster and, for about 2 months, we had excellent growth of new soft corals, the fish were thriving and all seemed well. 2 weeks ago, a thick, brownish algae appeared suddenly, which seems to either bubble itself or attract bubbles from the water. <Sounds like dinoflagelates> It goes away over night, only to pick up and bloom again when the halides kick in between 10.15am and 4.30 pm. <Yeah, very likely dino's>  In a matter of days, the tank shifted from a wonderful spectacle, to looking like a stagnant pond. The soft coral which was doing so well has closed, gone chalky or black at the ends. <Black is bad, it's beginning to become necrotic.> The polyps (if that's right?) have died off, the mushrooms don't
come out, and all new soft coral growth has ceased. Our expert was supposed to be providing maintenance, but we've seen nothing
of him since we paid him for the job, save when he called to drop off some new fish.  He can't offer any advice as to what the problem is, I've surfed to seek info to the extent that I'm now word blind! <I'd drop this maintenance bum like a hot rock, you've got a serious problem going on here. I would also suggest finding out if you and/or your coworkers would like to take it on to yourselves to keep this tank going, great, I'll suggest a few books to build a work-library. I'd pick up The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by our very own Bob Fenner, Aquarium Corals by Eric Borneman, and Reef Invertebrates by Fenner and Calfo.>

Regarding Insurance for service business
Hope you all are doing well this afternoon.   I am thinking of starting a small service business out of my house I am purchasing in the next few months, it wasn't a good fit before living in an apartment, but out of a house, starting small on weekends and evenings may pan out.
<Yes. This is how I and many others started their service companies>
   Anyways I was
wondering what sort of company I would have to got for insurance?  What kind of insurance is needed?
<Mmm, auto for sure. If/when you can afford it liability>
  Is there any sort of specific licensing or bonding I need to do before persuading this?
<Often... there's a need to have a business license, likely ahead of this a fictitious name registration and all that entails. Check with your State (and maybe County) re these issues>
   I'm sure insurance is a must,
accidents do happen....I just don't know where to look really.
<Depending on the size of your biz, if/when you might have employees, maybe doing "big" jobs or working directly for the gov't (we all work for them indirectly), you might need more and larger coverage, perhaps bonds of different sorts. This will come later>
   Do I need a full business plan to get insurance?
<Nope>
Any info you have about what I need and where to get it from a license / insurance standpoint would be very appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark
<See your State's website... am very sure they will have some input for you. Bob Fenner>

RE: Regarding Insurance for service business
Hmmm, I was thinking along the lines of  "whoops sorry I spilled 50 gallons of water on your nice new carpeting" insurance :)   Who would I call for that, any old company like Allstate or something?
<Yes. Very likely the same insurance company you employ for your home, auto also offers business liability insurance.>
Thanks as always :)
Mark
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Jobber questions
howdy bob-
<Greetings Jon>
    am a physics student in Nebraska that's been doing aquarium maintenance for the last two years out of a fish store. am one semester from graduation and i plan on heading to a coastal school to do my masters in oceanography. i hear that jobbers can make some good cash if you can hook up enough clients.
<Yes... but not easy work... lots of hours, headaches... with flights, pick-ups, collections...>
it also sounds like a job that doesn't require the normal 9 to 5 work ethic, which is cool since ill be in school.
<More like a open ended 24h/d work ethic... I encourage you to consider your options closely... if you can "get" grants, scholarships... even boot-strap financing... I would work for the school itself if this is what you want your life's work to be about... TA's, IA's... you know (or will soon), the typical "grad. work" jobs>
the only trouble is that nobody knows what it takes to be a jobber around here. i hear there are licenses to get.
<Mmm, just business license... other work with CITES, what have you is done by others... BUT very important to have VERY good working relations with your suppliers... This pre-requires their knowledge, trust of you. From whom do the folks you work with/for currently buy their livestock? You will want to contact AND visit these people before moving.>
can you give me a few leads as to where i need to go and ask my questions? are their state government agencies that would know?
<Several... but let's discuss what you are doing re school. What do you hope to do with your advanced degree work? In what particular aspects of physics are you interested? I was a H.S. physics teacher for a while years back. Bob Fenner>
Let me know what you think
Jon Trowbridge

Starting Aquarium Maintenance Business
Hello,
<Hi there>
My name is Stephen Norton.  I am planning to start an aquarium maintenance business in central New Hampshire.  I have about 15 years experience in the area and think that there is plenty of work to keep me busy.  I only have one real issue.  How do I figure out what to charge for the services.  I want to make money but I also want to be competitive.  Is there any resources that you are aware of that could help me with this.
<Yes, principally your competitors. Call and ask the independents and stores that do service what they charge. Really. People in the trade that know what they're doing would prefer (vastly) to have competent competitors that charge a fair price...>
Thank you for any help you can give me with this.  Also I love your website, I find it very informative and it has a great interface.
Stephen Norton
<Thank you. Some folks have told me in recent years that they charge either directly by the hour (at the rate of about $35 per) or indirectly about the same... figuring out about how long their services (counting drive time, admin., tool and material gathering...) will take per account. Some regions (like New York, metropolitan L.A.... charge more, like $50 per hour.
Bob Fenner>

Re: new service-guy for reef
hello 2 u,
I am a new service-guy for reef aquariums.
I will thank u for any tips:
What 2 do,
What not 2 do,
And haw to start.
Thank u,
anat a.
<Let's see... study within and without the field... become a good listener, explainer of what you're doing, the reasons for it. Take a long read through our business SubWeb: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/Biz%20Index/Biz%20index.htm
Make your specific questions and desires known.
Bob Fenner>

New store needing tech
Hello there!  We are a new store in the Dallas area.  We are in need of hiring a tech to do maintenance for us.
<A very worthwhile gambit for most all retail stores... ready income, best type of promotion overall... just have to "do" good installs, competent, professional upkeep...>
We do not want to get slammed by hundreds of phone calls and resumes, but need to get the word out that part time help is needed.
<Mmm, this is SO important a slot to fill (this person will BE you, your co. to the customers, public), that I strongly encourage you to have them work with you, likely in store, for a while to make sure you share values, they have "what it takes" personality, knowledge and skill-wise... to do the job/s "like you would" (or better). We used to recruit, train our service technicians (actual title) for our Service Division/s in this way (through our retail outlets). Part of our old Operations Manuals can be found on/as WetWebMedia.com Aquatics Business SubWeb. Do give this a look-see.>
We have talked with several vendors and are trying to network through the system without running a classified ad.  Is there any type of "test" that you are aware of that can be given to prospective
employees to test knowledge of basic aquarium care?
<None that I endorse... have been party to (making, evaluating ones developed by mass merchandisers in the field... but best to ask simple questions, develop your own matrix, including elements to evaluate apparent "appearance", "friendliness", "honesty", as well as tool use, capacity to do the tasks intended... My real advice is to "steal" folks at stores, hobby grp.s... that you admire... few compliments as strong, sincere as being asked "Would you consider working with us"?>
We are not a huge store and really try to work with our customers on a first name basis.  We do not
want to put our customer's tanks in the hands of someone that is lacking proper knowledge and would break down our good customer service reputation.
<Agreed... better to send no one... or just fold ones doors>
Also, it seems that there is lots of techs from other LFS that have stolen customers from their past employers.  Any suggestions on how to prevent this?
<A few... do develop and implement a "position contract" defining what the tech/s responsibilities and accountabilities are... including a non-compete (in time, space) agreement (have your legal liaison chat w/ you re the applicability in your State re)... and keep what is the tech/s domain just that... We had "service acct. folders (with info. on contacts, what the system was, sources of water, drainage, electricity... What tools to bring per... BUT separately for each account an Accounting Folder... the tech/s don't need, should not be afforded information on charges, who is billed... none of their business>
If you think it would help, please post our fax number that prospects could send a resume -
(972) 458-2788.
Jana Callaway-Coyle
<Be chatting... and more. Do you (stakeholder/s) have time to actually go out in the field, do this work yourself? I would... to generate operations plans, routes, marketing... ahead of sending out other/s in your stead. Bob Fenner>

RE: New store needing tech
Thanks for the advice.  We really enjoy your site and have found it to be very informative and helpful.  For us novice retailers, having someone as yourself to bounce things off of is a huge benefit.
<It is indeed a pleasure to aid you and others in the trade. It is my/our desire to help improve the industry... urge it to be a little more professional, sophisticated...>
I guess it is time to visit a few other LFS and see if recruiting is a possibility.
<Yes... and local hobby groups... invaluable gathering spots for the best talent>
We are also putting the word out with some of the local fish clubs, upon your recommendation, and hoping that this will bring in some qualified personnel.
<It will>
In the mean time, I guess we will maintain the accounts ourselves.
<Yes... and "make" your Op.s manuals... as stated... define what you want done, how you expect to have it done... A personal insight, our businesses included Aquatic Life Services with hundreds of accounts, a dozen vehicles at one point... We devised a win-win-win situation for our customers, fellow employees (corporation) and the business itself... by paying attention to detail... paying our staff as a function of overall performance (as measured by profitability)... putting the onus and responsibility on the tech's to please the customer... Keep this goal in mind (as it seems you do already for your retail)... and arrange your business tactically (with some set aside resource for strategic planning) and you'll do fine>
As the old saying goes, "If you want it done right...do it yourself."  Now, how do we add hours to a day?
<You come up with a/the answer to this and I'll come join you! Bob Fenner>
Jana Callaway-Coyle

Starting my own Setup and maintenance company!
Hi guys thanks in advance for your quick response. I was wondering if you all could give me a list of distributors here in Florida that I could use. Me and my staff plan on maintaining around 70-100 tanks monthly and I think wholesale/distributors would be the best place for me to acquire the fish for the setups. Fell free to give me your comments or advice in this matter.
Thanks.  Sincerely, James Bolton
<James... you can get a massive amount of industry contacts and information by subscribing to the industry trade magazines and getting the indexes. Try Pet Age, Pet Supplies Marketing and Pet Business. Also joining the national trade organization for our industry will help with these same contacts: PIJAC. Do some internet digging bud and best regards! Anthony>

information needed
Dear Bob,
I have recently started my own business setting up fish tanks and also cleaning them for people.
<Good for you, a fun, interesting and worthwhile field. I did the same for a few decades>
I have four tanks at home I do really great with and I know a lot about fresh water but I seem to lack knowledge in the salt water tank. Do you know of any books or sights that would be helpful in helping me understand the things I need to know ? There seems to be a lot to watch out for and I need to study up on this. Thank you for your time.
<Mmm, yes. Please peruse our site: www.WetWebMedia.com and you will find a good deal of useful information, inspiration having to do with the saltwater parts of the hobby, business... and references there to some of the best of what is currently available in the way of books in the field. Bob Fenner>
CLEARWATER BARB'S FISH TANKS

Aquarium Maintenance Business
Bob,
I am writing a new chapter that will be added to my existing manual regarding starting an aquarium maintenance service (I have been running a service for about 7 years and have been selling the manual for about 5). Anyway, the chapter is about ideas for expanding one's aquarium maintenance service to provide additional services such as aquarium moving, sick fish services, pond maintenance etc. 
<Sounds familiar... we used to do such things>
I would like to add some mention of fish breeding (fresh) and plant propagation but have not done this myself for purposes of a business. 
<We tried importing plants (Anubias, Crypts... from/through Singapore and "hardening them"... the only profitable part turned out to be Aponogeton bulbs... at some few cents net landed cost each... retailing them for 1.99 to 3.99 sprouted... at our retail outlets... all else proved hard to make money at... the cost of power, space, labor in California is too high... Oh, and not since working in the retail end in the sixties (yikes) have I been involved in breeding for profit>
As a result, the subject will be added as a suggestion with not as much detail but I would like to be able to add some detail and resources that readers can refer to for more information. 
<Good ideas>
Would you be able to refer me to some resources
<Maybe... can you be more specific?>
on the subject as well as possibly write a 4 or 5 page short discussion on the matter?
<The matters of breeding, freshwater (pond plants can be very worthwhile) plants?>
Knowing that your time is money and that you do this kind of thing professionally, I know you would
have to be paid for such text. I almost hesitate to ask this but if you had the time and were willing, what would something like that cost? 
<A couple of hundred dollars ($200). About the going rate for pet-fish hobbyist zine and online writing... With some graphics to boot!>
In any event, thanks for any information you can give me and I will be sure to list your website as a wonderful resource. Thanks again!
<Thanks much. Be chatting, Bob Fenner>
Duane Clark
AquaServe Aquarium Publications
Home of eFishTank
www.aquaserve.com
www.efishtank.com

Commercial Aquarium Cleaning Gear
Bob,
Do you know of any companies that manufacture commercial fish tank cleaning equipment? 
<A few, though most people in the trade make their own. You can contact Rainbow/Lifegard, Aquanetics, Python Products re their lines, possibilities>
I need as portable system for cleaning tanks in office buildings, homes etc. Up to about 1500 litre freshwater systems and possibly saltwater in the future.
I also have a petstore so could use the system there also.
Any help would be gratefully appreciated.
<Do contact other people in the service side... consider fabricating your own gear... it is less costly in general (if you have the time, skills), and will fit your needs better if you DIY. Bob Fenner>
Regards
Michael.
P.S. Love the Wet Web Media website.
<Please consider "adding to it" with an article/write-up of your adventures in securing the above gear... Our svc. division built, reconfigured skid units from the pool/spa industry, on dollies, rolling racks... even trailered larger diameter (1 1/2, 2" hose reels) for trash pumps... for cleaning ponds... and we'll place on WWM, help you get published in the print magazine realm.>

Commercial tank maintenance...
Bob-
I am thinking of setting up a tank at my business, here in San Diego. Though I have had years of experience in maintaining a FOWLR, I'm thinking of installing a reef tank. Is there anyone locally you would recommend to setup and maintain the tank. 
<Mmm, I would have this job bid by at least a few folks, and compare what they'd offer you, at what price. Try Ron Elander at Octopus' Garden, Pat Hurley at Aquatic Warehouse, and Dan and Ann Shoemaker at Aquatic Life Services>
I'm sure I could do it but, I would rather spend the time running the business. Other than going thru the Yellow Pages and talking to everyone, I thought you might know of someone who has the
same philosophy as you. Thanks.
<Yes my friend. Thank you for asking. Bob Fenner>
Andy

Picture Use for Aquarium Service Business in Sweden
Hello!
My name is Patrik, and I'm from Sweden.
I have I question to you regarding the pictures on your site. But first, I just have to say, what a great site you have done!
<Thank you my friend>
Right now, I'm restarting my aquarium business again, and your articles about central filtration, has helped me a lot. But it would helped me much more if you could put up some diagraph (I now, not correct spelled, hope you understand anyway).
<I understand... and wish I had graphics. Do have some old drawings that perhaps I can scan and place... or better, maybe someone will see your note on WWM and come forward with some>
Now, back to the question. I am having big problem to find any good picture of marine fish and corals, to put up on me homepage.
So, I wonder if I could take some of yours, until I have taken my own? Or, if I just could link to your site?
<The link approach is best at this time. We actually make a good part of our revenue from supplying image-work to commercial interests>
The problem with just linking the customer to you page, would be the language as some of them is having problem with "technical" English.
Best regards
Patrik Karlsson,
email:PKarl45@hotmail.com
<Please detail what sorts of images you are looking for. We can likely make an arrangement. Bob Fenner>

Re: Picture
Hello again!
Thank you for the fast reply.
I will link my costumer to your site.
<And ours to yours>
I think it would be pretty good anyway, and I wouldn't need to search after picture of the fish and corals I'm writing about. (It would save me a lot of time, never thought it took so much job, to set up a homepage).
Anyway, maybe I have to start studying English again, but did you mean that you sell image to company?
<Yes, exactly>
If so, I would be interest of buying some in time. Right now, my budget can't afford to much and the Swedish crown, now called pesetas by our Norwegian neighbor, ain't worth much.
<I understand.>
Finally, about the filtration, I think I know, from your article, how it should look like, but, if you should have some graphics "laying around", I would be very thankful if you could send some by mail or fax.
Best regards
Patrik Karlsson
Email:PKarl45@hotmail.com
<Will put on my ever-growing list of projects. Be chatting. Bob Fenner>

aquatic service
Hey Bob,
<Hello>
Merry New Year!!!!! i have a couple questions.. I was researching on starting an LFS business on my spare time while i was in school.
<... this is more than two full time propositions...>
My future plans was to someday have one, once my family and I was financially stable.
<And a family? When will you eat, sleep?>
I have just recently graduated and got a degree in computer networking technology. I am from the Bay Area and the job market right in that field is rough. I have been in the hobby since i was young and i have had been through many fresh, brackish, and saltwater setups. I am also on message boards all the time. I guess i am addicted. i did my research through score, SBA, and many other outside sources.
<The beginning of interest... do you have business experience?>
There is a lot more i still have to learn. Since the economy is tough right now would I be able to start an aquatic service company??? There are also companies that make computer hardware that can make it possible to maintain and monitor aquariums through a PC like the ones Neptune and Aquadyne manufacture. 
<Yes... am familiar with the latter folks backgrounds... live in San Diego with them, their company>
I was thinking with my networking and aquarium knowledge i can provide hi-tech service to customers. Is there room for me out here in the industry?? to grow??? to provide for my family??
<Perhaps.>
I have researched other service co. out here in the Bay and i am wondering if i can get a piece of the action??? make a career out of what I love to do?? Is it worth my time and money???
<Yes, of a certainty... the service side of the industry is wide open>
I am currently doing research and working on my business plan. I am in no big rush and I am waiting till my plan is bullet-proof to take action. I will also be posting on the message board to get more help and direction.. All the help is appreciated......
<Please read through the Business Index on WetWebMedia.com
We have much to discuss. Bob Fenner>
Thanks again for all the input,
A.Mac

Re: aquatic service
Hi Bob,
yeah i maintained a busy schedule. . i went to college and studied technical design, color theory, when my son was born i went the networking route. when i found that there was computer hardware used in the industry I found a way i can use everything i learned and changing career paths wasn't a waste of time.
designing ,aquascaping, and networking aquariums to monitor tanks and implement tasks from home.
<Reminds one of the ole SDL skits, "How many yobs you got mon?">
i can also collect data to show customers documentation. Well eventually that's the service i can provide. right now i just need the basics to get up and running. I have friends in web design and my mother is an accountant so i have already cut some costs. I have read the aquatic business articles and FAQs religiously It is a lot of work just to put it all down in writing...That's why i wondering if I can make real money doing what I already know how to do????
<Yes, no better time... stipulated you're located in, near a propitious population...>
especially here in the Bay Area.??I have 3 friends that started there own business and they seem to be doing good. I have asked some LFS around for some information and i had mixed feelings. some take me as a threat to their business with the idea and the answers they give aren't much help. some see me as young so they don't take me seriously. so i guess am on my own???
<Not necessarily on your own... perhaps the better idea to start own business (sole proprietorship), but maybe better to start from the get-go as a partnership... there is enough ready service business in much of SF... so you can have a more flexible schedule... as in time off... Worthwhile checking with stores you respect re such an enterprise as well...>
i am planning to have a website where i can reach a wider range of people and they can learn about the co., make contact. i have done searches on the web and there are only a couple service co. here with a site..
<Umm, nothing will beat (at this point... catch per unit effort) more "conventional" means of reaching real, potential customers... yellow page/phone directory ads, face to face, even letter contacts, proposals... Find out who already has systems (even ponds, lakes if you feel competent, desirous here) and approach them in person... Don't devote that much time to the Net... not now>
i have also heard of free ISPs and will be using them as part of my marketing plan. location i am targeting is hopefully the whole bay or at least most of it. where can i go to learn the basics of servicing??
<Working with an existing Service Company is the absolute best, a good LFS twenty percent as much, other industries service sectors five...>
such as equipment used???
<About the same, but larger/faster, more professional versions of home tools>
is it just like service i do to my tanks at home???
<The end results the same... approach, record-keeping much more regimented>
Basically it will be a installation/de-installation, moving, servicing, the works...i have tried seeking pt work at an LFS but its hard.
<Not as hard as starting, running your own service business>
is there any thing else i can do to learn about the trade??
<My friend... a life-time's worth. Do you have personal business experience? Can, will most likely be learned OTJ... but need to develop and implement a good, consistent/accurate accounting system of your time, billable rates... BUT most important, just seek out customers at this point, and be yourself>
experience other than home??? i used to hang out at a buddy of mines LFS so i have an idea of what goes on. how much they make....
<Is this friend still about? In business? Volunteer there... with an understanding that you are willing, wanting to do installs, ongoing maintenance work>
I have a lot of ideas and plans that can make the business unique. I am just not sure if it is worth the time???
<Mmm, assuredly yes... a good income can be had>
since i am only 22 will people take me seriously??
<I started my/our service business at seventeen>
My son just turned 3 and i want to provide him with the best. 
<The best what? If by this you mean "simply" things that money seem to be able to purchase, selling commercial property, securities, other avenues you should seek... they, on average, will/do pay much more>
i don't want to spend a lot of time learning to fail. I wasted enough time in my life.
<Much to say here my friend... you have only your life, your choices>
i am glad you are here to help and share your experiences about the industry...is there a future in the business i am interested in?? 
<Yes>
if not is it possible to do it part time??
<Yes>
sorry about all the questions but you are the only one i know that will tell it how it is.
thanks again
<Take some time to think deeply on "who you are", "what you want"... visit with people in the trade there... be with them... you will know whether to devote yourself to one path or the other. There is strength in believing that you are the maker of your destiny (this is so). Bob Fenner>

Hey You !!!!!
Howdy Bob; didn't see the e-mail till later about Pete's Party what do you think would be a slightly belated gift for him that he'd really like other than a naked woman .......... 
<Mmm, now you've got me thinking>
Also would there be any problem posting the daily images from you on SDMAS website with the usual legalize about the images and there ownership; without express written consent of B. Fenner and WetWeb Media .......,
<Go ahead and post away. Any/all of my work is available to the hobby groups, non-commercial interests/applications.>
and last but not least are you going to be around
to go to L.A. this Fri. ???? 
<Mmm what time? Giving Di a ride to the airport (I think in the AM). Are you shopping? Bob F> Thanx ; Maurice B.

Hey Reply
Thanks once again !!!!!!!!!! From Me and the Club, was thinking of going after morning traffic what time do you plan on going to the Air Port ????? Neal was going to pick up a box of live rock he won from Walt Smith's and i was thinking of trying to pick up a few things ( kid in a candy store ) that's if they let me ...... also I'd like to try and set up an Account w/ Sea Dwelling & Walt Smith's so in the future i can supply my company with livestock 
<What? Wow! Finally! Taking zee plungee into the biz end?>
when needed for setups ( i have 3 pending right
now ) .
<Will cc Di, find out her plans. Bob F>

Biznessman
Well I've been slowly setting up accounts with suppliers PFO lighting , Custom Aquatic, etc...... now i need to be able to do Livestock also ( Full service ) . Everything except the tank !!!!!! Will be very small right now but down the line. Already have my Bus. license, Resellers Permit and a few Business Cards !!!!!!
<You forgot an important component, you've got me! Congratulations on your progress. Bob Fenner>

Re: Biznessman
>Well I've been slowly setting up accounts with suppliers PFO lighting , Custom Aquatic, etc...... now i need to be able to do Livestock also ( Full service ) . Everything except the tank !!!!!! Will be very small right now but down the line. Already have my Bus. license, Resellers Permit and a few Business Cards !!!!!!
><You forgot an important component, you've got me! Congratulations on your progress. Bob Fenner>
>Hey with out you i wouldn't where am at in this Pet Fish Hobby you've opened sooo many doors for me it's unbelievable and you haven't changed a bit the same, approachable, down to earth nice guy
>!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Viva La Bob Fenner !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<We'll see what you say when you're juggling the "real job", family, accounts, and "a life" in addition! Be seeing you. Bob F>

LFS (business, life opportunity in the trade)
Bob, was contacted by Misty Johnson concerning the potential sale of a LFS here. May check into it. Would probably prefer just a "service" to forego overhead of operation.
<A great opportunity... to co-op with this earnest potential retailer... You could benefit by doing the installs, services out of your/her shop... Consider this>
I see a service as an investment in chemicals, tools, transportation and time with a good supplier or two on hand.
<Yes, and the accoutrements of enterprise... location, phone, licensing, advertising... all much easier to do with a "store front">
I appreciate the contact.
<We'll be chatting, scheming more soon. Bob Fenner>
Regards, from
David A. Bell

Pet-fish, life in general
Dave knows trees.....Bob knows oceans. Dave wants to know oceans...Dave listens to Bob....
<Bob knows little to diddly>
Actually, with the intended seriousness above aside, my study of marines has been supremely gratifying at the very least and caused me to consider an ever increasing studious commitment as a life project at the most; whether or not anything ever comes of it but my own satisfaction, increased knowledge and the reward of conversation with new friends, then my goals are complete.
<Ah! Wish I were younger, not so lazy... would engage you in a partnership... likely an install and service co.... We'd have "some fun" as the saying goes, putting in systems, stocking and taking care of them... still a profitable, and tremendously gratifying enterprise>
For that reason, I certainly appreciate the time that you take to educate, mentor, promote among those as myself who may unwittingly suppress their interest otherwise without enthusiastic example. My regret (interpreted "impatience") is that I have not been able to spend the time I would like...but I will.
<Mmm, I understand my friend>
Regards, from
David A. Bell
<Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

Thanks! (Service company branching out from Pools to Fountains)
I own a pool cleaning business and many of my customers have big fountains in front of their houses. I am considering offering a weekly fountain cleaning as a new service. 
<Good idea. Our old companies used to do this as well... very easy work with the right gear, a routine... If they're big, trash pumps (gas powered are best if noise isn't a concern... Skid units with cartridge filters on a trailer, with a service switch, hose reels are a real plus for where noise is a concern as well as no where to vent waste water...>
It seems no one in my area does it and all of the fountains here are full of silt, dirt, and muck.
Thanks for the information on your article!
<Any time my friend>
Are there any other good sources of information of fountains, cleaning, and maintenance? I want to be THE area expert on fountains soon.
<You may well have to develop such a collection... Do peruse the bits on our site (www.WetWebMedia.com) on the "Business Index" and "Pond Index"... and contact me if you have specific questions... there are suppliers of gear... Rainbird, Imperial Bronzelite, Thoro... in the trade that you should become familiar with... Bob Fenner>
Mike Yancey
"The Pool Butler"

Ethics in Aquarium Service
Greetings Bob (or is it still Lorenzo manning the ship?):
<Am back, but just barely>
Here's a question that may be a bit different than most you get...
I run an aquarium service business. It's in its infancy, but business is rapidly beginning to pick up. Already I've run into a little problem, and would appreciate your advice/thoughts.
One of my commercial clients is pressuring me to *grossly* overstock his tank. I won't get into all the details, suffice it to say that what he wants is a tank *FULL* of fish. We're talking 30 or so fish in a 75g marine tank!!
I of course, do not want to do this. Through education, I have been trying to discourage the client, and help him understand why this is such a bad idea. He seems to listen, but I still get the feeling that he's thinking "this is my tank, I pay you, you do what I want".
<Really? Then let him overstock and kill the livestock.>
Prior to working with this client, I did put together a contract that outlined my services, prices, blah blah blah. In that contract, I specified that I couldn't guarantee "livestock lifespan" (who can guarantee life?).
<No one and everyone>
I did NOT however, specify that I would be the ultimate decision-maker on exactly WHAT goes in the tank. We discussed his needs in length, and he NEVER brought up this idea to overstock his tank. In fact, we'd outlined several possible stocking plans, all of which he seemed excited about, and he's been pleased with the service so far. I suspect he saw a tank somewhere that had way too many fish in it and decided that was the look he wanted.
I suppose that I could just cram this tank full of fish, and replace them as they die off (customer pays for livestock).
But I have a fundamental problem with killing fish in such a pointless fashion. My client sees them as "just fish" and doesn't seem to care if his fish die and get replaced. He wants that flashy, overstocked tank (and he can afford it)!
I will of course, continue to educate and persuade this person that overstocking is the wrong way to go. In your personal (and professional) opinion, should I just stuff the tank and replace the livestock as it dies off, or should I hold firm and refuse to stock the tank in this manner? (Which means I could/would lose the account).
<There are grounds of "reasonableness" in such judgments ("how much overstocking is expedient")... I would shoot for some "middle-ground" here>
I need customers. On the other hand, I also feel a strong need to do what is right for the captive fishes.
Any opinion? Is there some way to write a better contract the next time so that I don't have to go through this scenario again? Am I "out of bounds" in refusing to do what this customer is asking?
Regards, hope you had/are having a great trip to Asia!
Jay T.
Fishy Business
Complete Aquarium Service
Commercial & Residential
Jay Thompson - Owner/Operator
Phone: 602.614.7251
email: FishyBusiness@go.com
<Thank you for writing so lucidly. "In the final synthesis each must decide for themself"... Above all be true to yourself. State (in writing and verbally) "I would do so and so, and wouldn't do so and so, and the reasons for it... and if indeed you come across situations that call for you to compromise your values (what you prize as important, valuable, ethical...) choose what you deem to be right... irrespective of apparent "needs" for customers. Don't cheat yourself, this is impossible. Bob Fenner>

Starting a business
Bob,
After completely falling in love with the saltwater addiction and gaining a better knowledge of it than most, I am considering opening up my own saltwater fish store. If I remember correctly from reading your book, you were a long time owner of one as well. 
<Sort of like boats, or dogs... difficult to tell "who owns who"... but did spend fourteen years "on the floor", and yes, our old/extinct corp. did have some retail outlets>
My main concern is, can I make a living and provide for a future family? 
<Yes, this is STILL a very wide, and rich area to delve into... especially considering the service side/aspects... do consider them in your thoughts, business and marketing plans>
I'm not looking to get rich, I just want to do what makes me happy and will provide me with a good lifestyle. Do you have any advice, tips, or pointers for a young entrepreneur? 
<A bazillion as usual, and a pledge to share them with you... entirely self-serving: enjoyable and profitable for me... the more good people in the trade... the better>
Also, do you know the names of some good suppliers with healthy, well priced livestock and supplies? 
<Once again, many. Do consider logging on, looking for the national trade magazines through your search engines... and if at all possible, coming out to the world's biggest, best trade show, the InterZoo in May... in Germany... I and friends will be there... www.interzoo.com... stay in touch, we can meet up there, and chat this possibility up much, much more>
The market in my area (Birmingham, Alabama) has only three stores with saltwater fish. One is quite dishonest and sells poor livestock (he's struggling to keep the doors open), and the other two have skyrocket prices because people in the area don't know any better. I'd appreciate your comments and advice.
Stanley Douglass
>>
<A lifetime of fun involvement in the "real" worlds of nature, human nature, business and personal self-discovery await you... Will try to post my "five essential elements of retail" on the www.wetwebmedia.com site for your perusal... and maybe sections of the old Nature Etc, Inc.s Operations Manuals for our Retail and Service Divisions... In the meanwhile... I can't encourage you enough... to make the commitment to finding out what the industry is/might be, by volunteering, working at/for one of the stores you mention... Do this, my best "next step for you" advice.
Bob Fenner