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Puffers/Turtles/Overstocking=Doomed Tank – 10/24/07
Yeah, I'm new with the whole "fish thing" and I have 2 turtles, one soft
(size of a 1/2 dollar) and red eared (sized of a quarter), I also have two
fiddler crabs, 13 tiger barbs, 2 gourami, 2 fire mouth cichlids, 7 pretty feeder
fish and a fat guppy, 2 Chinese sucker fish, and 2 zebra danios....
<OMG! Not all in the same tank with the 3 GSPs?!!!>
I know, I have WAY too many fish, and my LFS said it would be fine (obviously)
to have all these fish (except put the turtles in a giant aquarium or kiddie
pool when they get bigger....
<You know but you do this anyway? I don't get it. Turtles eat fish. They need to
be removed. Anything that takes a bite of those puffers will die. >
I definitely cannot afford to get a bigger tank.
<Well, you already know the turtles need a huge tank.>
or even any size to put the other fishes in. I can't sell them back either
because I love them. What should I do? Are they all just going to die?
<Yes, everything in your tank will die from being poisoned by their own waste
(No amount of water changes can keep up with what you are housing) or eaten by
the turtles & puffers. Forget about how much you "love" them (if you truly loved
them, you would have researched their needs first) or whether the shop will give
you any money for them. Return the puffers, feeders (do not belong with tropical
fish), turtles, crabs (they need some land), at the minimum! ~PP>
Ideal Brackish Livestocking? 9/7/07
Hey WWM crew,
I have a 125 gal tank that is brackish (1.015 spec. gravity). It has about 100
gallons of water in it (water level lowered for mudskipper). At the moment, I
have a mudskipper (who loves his floating log!) and a fluctuating school of
mollies (breeding, eating, breeding, eating...). This tank is at a science
museum, and I want to stock it with a good variety of species to demonstrate the
awesome, often overlooked species of brackish communities.
This will be a whole display area about estuaries and how to protect them.
The specific gravity does not have to stay so high (I know to lower it gradually
if needed). What would be your "dream team" of brackish fish (and inverts!) in
this tank? If you could give me different scenarios for different salinities
(that the mudskipper would still be okay with), that would be great. I found the
place on the site on "brackish livestock selection", but it only considered
smaller tanks for lower salinities. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
PS--tank chemistry: ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates always below 40. pH around
7.9.
Thank you!!!
-Melissa
<Hello Melissa. Well, I could start by telling you to get hold of a copy of my
book, "Brackish Water Fishes" from TFH. That covers just about all the species
you're likely to see in the trade. Over here on WWM, my article "Brackish
Livestock Selection" covers three scenarios divided out by salinity as well as
tank size. The final set of suggestions specifically covers large, high salinity
brackish water aquaria, and is perhaps most relevant to you
(http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BrackishSubWebIndex/brlvstk_sel.htm). Now,
mudskippers make things a bit complex, because they respond to other fish in
particular ways. If the fishes in the tank are too small... they eat them. But
if the fishes in the water are big and active, the mudskippers stay on land more
of the time, which isn't necessarily good for them. Mixing them with anything
other than gobies and livebearers therefore tends to be dodgy. As such, I'd tend
to be looking at medium sized things like knight gobies (Stigmatogobius spp.),
violet gobies (Gobioides spp.), orange Chromides (Etroplus maculatus), and
perhaps (Anableps spp.) if you can get them. Flatfish such as Brachirus and
Trinectes spp. would also work well, though they're something fiddly to feed,
being nocturnal predators on insect larvae and the like. All these fish would
prefer a slightly lower SG, maybe 1.010-1.012, as would, incidentally, your
mudskippers. In terms of education value, all of these suggestions exhibit
quirky things. Violet gobies are highly specialised to feed on algae and small
invertebrates they either get by gulping water or from sifting mud. They have
big mouths, tiny but sharp teeth, and rudimentary eyes. They live in muddy
estuaries. Anableps have adapted to feed on insect larvae (midges and mosquitoes
mainly) that are very common in shallow brackish water. To avoid predators from
above they have eyes that see above the waterline. They are livebearers as well.
Chromides are cichlids, but of a very primitive sort, and closely resemble the
marine ancestors from which the rest of the cichlids evolved. As such, they're a
kind of living fossil. They are also among the few non-marine "cleaner fish",
picking parasites off larger cichlids, Etroplus suratensis, that live in the
same habitat. They generally breed readily in aquaria, and as such are good
value to watch. Knight gobies are classic gobies in shape and lifestyle, and
given that gobies are perhaps THE definitive brackish water fish group, make a
useful addition to the tank. They are rather predatory though, and will quickly
work through excess molly fry! If you were feeling adventurous, you could try
one of the smaller puffers (Tetraodon biocellatus would be ideal) and even
spaghetti eels (Moringua spp.) if your retailer can get hold of them. They're
lovely mini-moray eels (~40 cm) that feed on insect larvae and dig into the
sand. Totally harmless and very easy to keep. Invertebrates for the brackish
water tank can be fiddly to obtain, but my favourites would include Clibanarius
tricolor (the blue-leg hermit kept in reef tanks), Nerites such as Vitta usnea,
and even small crabs like Uca spp. Hope this helps, Neale>
New tank set up, FW leaning to BR. Bumblebee Gobies... 5/11/07
Hi all,
<Hello!>
Its been a while since I last wrote in. I am about to be the
proud owner of a new 60 gallon tank. Wondered if you could answer a few
questions as my set ups have never been this large.
<Will do my best.>
I now plan to keep tropical fresh water fish. I love the brackish fish
especially the bumble bee goby and wondered if they could be adapted to
the fresh water environment.
<Basically no. A few supposedly brackish water fish are actually
freshwater fish that tolerate salt, such as glassfish and wrestling
halfbeaks, and these are obviously fine in freshwater. Bumblebee gobies
are a mixed bag. Some species are found in freshwater and can
potentially be kept in even soft/acid conditions. However, identifying
bumblebee gobies to species level is basically impossible for aquarists.
So as a default position, BBGs are best kept in a brackish water tank
(and ideally a single species one, as they're quite tricky to feed).>
Brackish fish are quite hard to find here in Scotland and I found my
choice limited hence the decision to go freshwater.
<Often people don't realise the variety of brackish water fish out
there. Besides the things like scats and monos, there are also numerous
cichlids that do well (if not better) in brackish water, and there are
also a few marine fish that thrive in (strongly) brackish water, such as
various Arothron and Lutjanus spp. as well as a few inverts, like
blue-leg hermit crabs. Agreed, brackish water fish are not easy to
obtain on a single trip to your pet store, but over the year you are
bound to see many different types. In the UK, you have some good options
for mail-ordering fish, with stores like Trimar Aquaria and Wholesale
Tropicals offering overnight delivery. Skim through a copy of a British
fishkeeping magazine like PFK and you'll find lots of such dealers.
These places often have lots of brackish water fish, and would be able
to plug any gaps you can't find locally. I'll add that when I live in
Scotland (Aberdeen) I didn't have much trouble getting brackish water
fishes. There were a couple of decent shops in Aberdeen plus another in
Dundee. Trips to Edinburgh or Glasgow would likely be rewarding, too.>
I also plan to have some clown loaches how many I believe they like to
be in groups.
<Correct, they are sociable, and best kept in at least trios.>
I have a supplier near by also that stocks mollies reared in fresh water
will they thrive the same?
<Rearing mollies in freshwater doesn't change anything. They are
sensitive to high nitrates (anything much above zero), low pH, and low
hardness. Keeping them in brackish water fixes these problems, which is
why they do best in brackish water. So even if reared in freshwater, if
you plonk a molly into water with high nitrates or a low pH/hardness,
it'll get sick.>
I will have a shallow sand bed (playsand) and I know it must be stirred
regularly to prevent gas and toxins. is there any freshwater critters
available that can aid in this.
<Anything that burrows. I happen to like Malayan livebearing snails
(Melanoides spp.) but these will breed rapidly if you overfeed the tank
and do not remove organic waste quickly. Loaches and catfish also clean
sand very effectively, and so will most benthic cichlids.>
Finally I would like to have some real plant life. I thought if I
bought them potted they would thrive better than placing then directly
in the sand.
<Potted plants are a bit of a con in some ways. Many plants do not
thrive when potted, and need to be unpotted at once. Java ferns and
Anubias, for example, shouldn't even be put in the ground at all! What
matters is the development of the roots. I'd sooner take a loose plant
with a decent root system than a potted one I cannot observe properly.>
What are your recommendations?
<For plants? Depends on your level of experience. Because sand is pushed
about a bit by large fishes like clown loaches, you want to choose
plants that develop deep root systems quickly, such as Vallisneria.
Alternatively, go for Java ferns and Anubias that grow attached to
stones/wood, as these don't care about the substrate either way. In
fact, sticking with epiphytic plants like Java ferns, Anubias, and Java
moss, plus floating plants like hornwort and water sprite, might be the
best option. That way you only need 1-2 cm of sand, and there's zero
risk of anaerobic decay.>
Thanks ever so much
Lesley
<Cheers, Neale>
I know certain fish can transition from freshwater, brackish, and
saltwater. 5/11/07
Hello Crew,
I hope everyone is having a good day.
<So far, so good!>
I know certain fish can transition from freshwater, brackish, and saltwater.
<Indeed. Such fish are called "euryhaline fish" as opposed to "stenohaline fish"
that are confined to freshwater or saltwater habitats their entire lives.>
Does their food need to change also?
<A good question. It depends upon on the fish. Certain fish live in one
environment for part of their life cycle, and another environment the next part
of the life cycle. In many cases, there are dietary changes along with these
ecological changes. Atlantic Salmon for example live in freshwater as hatchlings
and for the first few months of their life, feeding mostly on insect larvae.
They then go to sea for a few years where they feed on crustaceans of various
kinds and small fish. Once they reach a certain size they will migrate back into
rivers to spawn, but during this spawning run they don't feed much, if at all.
They then return to the sea and begin feeding again, in preparation for the
spawning run the next year. Other fishes, like scats, simply eat whatever they
find wherever they go. These fish move between freshwater and the sea all the
time, and what they eat depends only on what they encounter. For the aquarist,
one of the striking things about brackish water fish is their greediness. The
problem is making sure you don't overfeed them and compromise water quality as a
result. Some brackish water fish are predators, and need a primarily meaty diet,
but most are omnivores and take a variety of foods including algae, plant
matter, frozen foods, and pellets.>
I know the salt levels change, but what other effects does it have on their
bodies?
<The change in salinity is the main thing euryhaline fish have to deal. So in
freshwater a scat (for example) will be pumping out excess water while
conserving salt, but doing the reverse when it is in the sea. Secondary issues
will be differences in temperature (the sea varies more slowly than neighbouring
rivers so may be cooler or warmer depending on the season), pH, hardness, and
other aspects of water chemistry. Salt water also provides more buoyancy than
freshwater, and euryhaline fish also need to adjust the amount of gas in the
swim bladder to keep the same level of poise when swimming.>
I am particularly interested in mollies.
<The relationship between mollies and brackish water is complex. Mollies are
naturally found in freshwater, brackish, and marine environments. But in aquaria
they tend to do poorly in freshwater, being very prone to fungus, finrot, and
the "shimmies". It is not 100% clear to me that they need brackish water, and
some aquarists have suggested that it is the ambient level of nitrates that
matter. In brackish water nitrate is less toxic than in freshwater, so the
mollies will thrive even if the nitrate levels are quite high. It certainly
seems to be the case that people who have luck keeping mollies in freshwater
aquaria also keep the nitrates at very low (practically zero) levels. In
ordinary community tanks where the nitrates are around 20-100 mg/l, mollies just
don't do well.>
Thank you,
Ann
<Cheers, Neale>
Large Brackish Tank 3/6/07
Dear WetWebMedia Crew,
<Hi Ben, Pufferpunk here, for your brackish water needs.>
I am setting up a 230gal U.K. <276 USG> brackish tank of which will have a
lowered level.
<You need to calculate how much water will be left after lowered. Let's just
guess it's by 1/3rd, which would leave around 150UKG or 180 USG (sorry, I'm from
the US & need to think in USG--you'll see why).>
I intend to try and grow mangroves in there and have a raised section for the
archers to squirt at.
<Nice!>
My predicted stocking so far will be: monosx6, scatsx6, archersx5 and some green
puffers. If so, how many <puffers>? Also, with green puffers can I add
mudskippers or is that a no-go?
<Whoa!!! You really need to start considering the ADULT sizes of these
fish. Scats grow to the size of a dinner plate & require 50 USG ea. Monos grow
to a foot long & like lots of swimming room. A school of 6 adults would require
a 300+ USG tank. Archers also grow to a foot & require a minimum tank size of
100 USG each. As far as the puffers, they require a min tank size of 30 USG
each & are extremely nippy fish. No mudskippers with the puffers. You need to
reconsider you stocking plans. Your tank may look quite large empty but after
filled with the heavy decor these fish all require, as adults, that does not
leave them as much room to swim as you think. ~PP>
Thanks for any help, Ben
<Please Ben, next letter you send, check your capitalization, spelling &
punctuation, before emailing us. We have to correct all of that, before sending
over to our FAQs--very time consuming.>
From Brackish to Marine 10/11/06
Hello Bob,
<Hi, Pufferpunk here today.>
I am aware of Mollies being able to live in a saltwater environment
(reef). I personally have some mollies on my reef tank right now.
I've been reading about brackish water fish and I am really interested in buying
some species for my tank. My question then is if I buy a Targetfish (Terapon
jarbua) and some Scats from my local fish store, would I be able to acclimate
them to a saltwater environment in a short period of time, like I did with the
mollies
(8 hours) or I would have to establish a brackish water tank, then increase the
salinity as the fish mature along months/years?
<I'd go with your latter idea. The fish you mention both live in marine
conditions as adults. Beware, the scat grows as large as a dinner plate &
neither may be reef safe. ~PP>
Thanks, JP Marchetti
Keeping Marine Fish in Brackish Water 9/10/06
<Hi, Pufferpunk here>
I was wanting something like an oyster toadfish or scorpionfish for
a tank mate in my brackish water tank. I was wondering how hard and
rare it would be to find one of these types of fish for such a
setting?
<Bad idea to keep a marine species in brackish water salinity.>
I saw an orange toadfish and a scorpionfish of the same color in a
LFS (Live Fish Store)
<Actually, LFS usually stands for Local Fish Store.>
but unfortunately they were marine.
<Yup!>
I had told them I had a brackish water tank with an albino moray
with a salinity setting at 1.008 and they told me that if I were to
raise my level up to about 1.015 I would be able to put one of those
fish in my tank as the salinity they were using was at 1.016. This
does not sound right to have marine settings at 1.016 when marine
settings should be at 1.020 or better.
<You're quite correct.>
So far my eel is thriving in my tank with no problems and he has
one very healthy appetite. I would rather risk getting something I
can have adapt to what I have than forcing my little guy into those
kind of changes. Are there any options to take that I could safely
add such a fish to my tank?
Are there any other venomous fishes that are easily gotten that I
could look for to add to my brackish tank that you are
aware of? Even a stone fish would be good.
<Yes, according to Neal Monks (see:
http://homepage.mac.com/nmonks/aquaria/brackfaqpart1.html?),
there are lots of venomous brackish water fish. All of the
waspfishes (family Tetrarogidae) are venomous, of which
Neovespicular depressifrons (butterfly goby waspfish) and Notesthes
robusta (freshwater scorpionfish) are the most commonly traded. Some
of the toadfishes are venomous, but the aquarium species
Allenbatrachus grunniens is not one of them.
It has been reported that scats are venomous (having toxic spines in
the dorsal fin) but other reports deny this. At the least, they
should be handled carefully, just in case.
Shark catfish (Ariidae) and eel catfish (Plotosidae) are both
venomous. The Colombian shark catfish, Hexanematichthys seemanni, has
venomous pectoral and dorsal fin spines. The eel catfish, Plotosus
lineatus, normally sold as a marine fish, does well in brackish
water. It has a very powerful venom in the pectoral and dorsal fin
spines. Good luck finding these fish & be careful! ~PP>
Thank you
Re: Venomous Fishes in Brackish Waters 9/11/06
<I Just got another note from Neale Monks about keeping a
venomous fish with your moray:
"Morays are tricky. There are two basic kinds, fish-eaters and
invert-eaters. The fish eaters (e.g. Gymnothorax) have sharp conical
teeth and view their tankmates as potential food. Probably exactly
the same as with marine morays. Probably only safe tankmates are
big, robust beasts, like GSPs or dog-faced puffers, that are able to
take care of themselves.
The invert-eaters (e.g. Echidna) have blunt teeth for cracking
shells and tend to ignore all but the smallest fish. They seem to
work fairly well with monos, scats, etc.
I don't think being venomous or not will make a big difference,
because by the time the fish has used its venom, your moray will be
dead. So you want something that says "don't touch" to the moray.
Puffers will do that with their bright colours and puffing-up, and
so will Colombian shark catfish thanks to their "clicking" warning
(though these must kept in a group). I fear butterfly-goby waspfish
will be too small (they're only 8 cm long) but the Bullrout
Notesthes robusta is essentially a sluggish lionfish, and not much
molests it.
Otherwise, his best bet is to keep the thing at 1.018 and add a
snapper or grouper. Either of these should do fine, as well as being
an entertaining pet in its own right."
Just though you'd like to know... ~PP>
Stocking a Brackish Tank 2/19/06
<Pufferpunk again>
Thanks for the response. Just wondering, that sounds like quite a bit of
under-stocking for ~80 gallons. And would the archers be happy with only two
in the tank? They are schooling fish,
<Actually, archerfish adults are solitary fish.>
but as I am mostly into freshwater, the general rule for me is about an inch of
fish per gallon. Of course this doesn't really work with bigger fish (would you
keep an Oscar in a 12?), but I would think that because they school, they
wouldn't really be needing that much space over 75 - 80 gallons.
<Well, you just argued against your 1"/gal rule. This only applies to fish that
are thin-bodied & 1-2" long. You must always consider adult size.>
Also, thanks for clarifying the whole scat thingy. LFS's can be pretty dumb when
it comes to fish. Another thing, I have never had problems with bogwood or
driftwood lowering the pH in my FW tanks (although it would probably help, as I
have mostly fish that prefer a pH of around 6.5, and I don't use pH buffers),
would this be different with BW?
<Yes, salt will eat away at the wood.>
If this was true, wouldn't the mangrove swamps of brackish water have an effect
on the pH?
<Mangroves are living plants, not dead driftwood. You are also not taking into
consideration that the ocean is getting constant 100% water changes.>
I know that I am probably bugging you with this but I have one more question,
totally unrelated to this topic: for marine tanks, like shark tanks, etc., how
would you do large water changes, while keeping the salinity at a constant
level? Just a question, I would never think of keeping sharks, however one of my
LFS's has a 2000 gallon shark
tank, and I got kind of curious.
<Since I've never kept a 2,000g shark tank, I can only guess that they have a
wonderful filtration system & also have huge vats of premixed salt water ready
for water changes, along with a drain & fill system.>
Thanks a bunch, your site has been an ongoing source of knowledge for me, and I
congratulate you on the good work.
-Eddy
<Thanks & good luck with your project. ~PP>
Puffers and Gobies and Crabs.. Oh My! - 3/21/2006
I have read very much on the figure eight puffer and the bumblebee goby.
<<That’s always the smart way to start!>>
I have a 20 gallon and a 10 gallon brackish water tank. They both have java
fern and moss and driftwood, pots and rock with coral substrate.
<<All sounds good, except the driftwood. It will deteriorate in salty
water. What is the current SG in your tanks? Are they cycled? If so, how?>>
Now in the 20 gallon I have two fiddler crabs. They will be moved to the ten
gallon once I get the gobies and figure eight. My plan is to have one figure
eight and five gobies because they both don't get too large, and if need to I
can invest in a 40-50 gallon later down the road.
<<It is best to start puffers, and all fish, in their final homes. You are
lucky here though, as you can keep one figure 8 puffer and a few bumblebee
gobies in the 20-gallon tank for life. Is the tank long as opposed to tall?>>
So my questions are, can I keep them together?
<<Yes.>>
Will they be able to live out the rest of their lives?
<<Yes.>>
Another question is, can the fiddler crabs live with the puffer or not? My
guess is no, but they are pretty large compared to a puffer’s mouth.
<<Crabs=puffer food. Check out www.thepufferforum.com for great articles and
info on caring for your puffer.>>
Thanks a lot
Mark
<<Glad to help. Lisa.>>
Brackish Fish and Crabs - 3/5/2006
I am very interested in having brackish crabs and brackish fish. I have not
bought a decent sized tank yet but I want to research types of fish first. I
like puffers (who doesn't) but obviously, they cannot go with crabs and the
like.
<<Depends on the personality of the puffer, but you are right, as a rule.>>
I have gone on very many internet sites and they sometimes have information on
brackish crabs and fish in the same tank, but only ever say top dwelling fish
and short finned fish. One of the only examples of brackish fish and crabs was
red claw crabs and bumblebee gobies but those are bottom dwelling! If possible,
could I be told of all possible combinations of fish and crabs (in brackish
conditions) including more than one type of fish to one type of crab?
<<Too many variables, you are going to have to do your own research here.>>
I like red claw crabs but would go for another like fiddlers. I would only aim
at having one or two crabs in a tank. To make a more specific analysis of what
type of tank I am after I would have to say an around 50-gallon tank with a lot
of depth and width (not much of a tall tank person). For internal decoration and
design, I would like to have a fake rock cave with its entrance facing the front
of the tank so I can still see the crabs inside (maybe logs so they can reach
the air not sure yet on what add so they can reach)
<<Do make sure you house the crabs you choose properly, and create a dry land
area, if necessary.>>
I would really like to know some names at least of some top dwelling short
finned brackish fish. If there are no good combinations, if possible, could I
be sent a table or something in which it shows what brackish fish can go with
what?
<<No such table exists, sorry!>>
This is a lot to ask but it would be extremely helpful and I may have asked
things against your policies (apologies if I have) but I saw that I had to type
properly and I hope I did so adequately.
<<Capitalized I’s would be nice too.>>
I will not expect a question this long to get a full reply instantly and I do
hope this is a free service otherwise oops.
<<It is, yes.>>
Yours sincerely and thankfully whether I get the things I asked for or not (very
long message to read),
James Briscoe
<<Look into Orange Chromides; they are a beautiful low-end brackish
Cichlid. Good luck with your research. Lisa.>>
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