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FAQs on the Livebearing Toothed Carps, Poeciliid Fishes Selection

Related Articles: Poeciliids: Guppies, Platies, Swordtails, Mollies by Neale Monks, Livebearing Fishes by Bob Fenner,

Selling My Fish 11/11/08
Hi!
My name is Bel. I am 15 and I love to raise Livebearers. I have 4 tanks: one 40 gallon, one 20 gallon, one 7 gallon, and one 1 gallon. I only have 4 neon tetras, and approximately 70 guppies, all raised by myself. I am at the risk of overpopulation and would like to sell some of them, but I am not sure how or where or to whom I should sell them. All the males and females are separated so I won't have more baby fry for now, but I love raising fish and would like to raise other Livebearers, but I'm afraid I'll have too many fish. I would love to keep all of them, but I already have more babies and I don't want inbreeding. All my guppies are from two fish, no inbreeding. All my fish are very happy and healthy. I'm scared that if I go to pet stores they won't buy my fish because I'm young and don't know a lot about breeding fish. And my female guppies are very plain and generic colored, like a sandy brown, so that might make it harder to sell them. But the males are very colorful. They have red tails with green sheen and black spots on their body. They also have some black and pink stripes. I don't think they are a specific type of guppy, I think they have a delta fin or a fan tail. They also don't look exactly like their parents. The males look like a mix of both parents.
Here's a picture. Sorry if its a little blurry.
Any advice on selling fish would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks a million!
Bel
<Hello Bel. There's no perfect way to sell fish. You certainly can ask a retailer to take them from you, and often you'll get credit in return. I did this during the weekend with some livebearers that I'd bred, Limia nigrofasciata. Go to the shop first, tell them you have some fish, and see if they'll take them. Personally, I wouldn't sell them to a shop that trades in "feeder fish" or "feeder guppies" -- because your fish are essentially wild-type Guppies in colouration, it's possible some retailers might use them as fish food! Another way is to join a fish club. Fish clubs have auctions and you can also meet people who'll swap your fish for some of their fish. This is a great way to get hold of rare livebearers or particular strains of fancy livebearer. Or you could join a fish forum online: lots of these have a "buy, sell or swap" thread where people can trade fish. For what it's worth, I think your fish are nice, and I'm all in favor of wild-type Guppies. They're much hardier than fancy guppies, and make much better pets for use in community tanks. Cheers, Neale.>

Another few questions for Neale (if possible). Livebearer sel., sys. -01/30/08
Hi again, Neale! (Or if not, whoever is kind enough to reply)
<It is me...>
Thank you so much for your advice. I had written you previously about keeping goldfish with sand, and you dispelled my fears about any negative consequences. However, I've decided to take a different approach and would appreciate a bit of your input.
<Oh?>
I've decided to nix goldfish, since shubunkins were my first pick and they get so large, I realize now they are meant for ponds or large aquariums. There are calico fantails that might fit better into a 29 gallon tank, but the "golf ball" fancy goldfish look, while sort of cute, I find a bit grotesque...
<Indeed, not a big fan of fish so inbred they can't swim.>
So, I've decided to switch to livebearers! Of course, I've tried them before, but never have they fared too well in my tank.
<Most all problems with livebearers come from two things: not appreciating their need for hard, alkaline water, and not understanding that they are fish of clean streams, not swamps. So they need good water quality with the right chemistry! A bit of salt seems to help, even with the non-brackish water ones.>
I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment that they are not fish for the beginner, in spite of being recommended as such. I had a gold marbled molly in a 29 gallon tank, she never seemed sick, but one day she just disappeared. I also tried red wag platys, but I believe I got two females and they just looked bloated all the time. Eventually they got so bloated they seemed to not do much but lean on the plastic plants, and they eventually died. I also tried a male and female pair of tuxedo swordtails, but they died after I had them for only about a year and a half.
<Oh dear.>
This was before I knew much about the water chemistry as it pertains to aquariums, and that livebearers should get lots of greens in their diet. Now I am giving it another go, and I swear I'm going to do things right! First off, I have some European Shrimp Mix that my African cichlids love. I also have plenty of blanched greens available, and cucumber and cantaloupe (a bit junky, but very popular with the cichlids) and I plan on giving them only spare amounts of dried food. When I do, it'll be HBH Soft Spirulina pellets and Ocean Nutrition Cichlid Veggie Flake. About twice a week I'll give them frozen bloodworms and chopped, live earthworms. There will be no bloated fish in my house this time!
<Very good. I think the chopped earthworms are overkill though (literally, for the worms themselves). Livebearers would be much happier with smaller mouthfuls. With the notable exception of the AMAZING pike livebearer, most of them are grazers and nibblers rather than biters.>
Also, I am still interested in making this a lightly planted tank. I plan on having one fixture with two T5 bulbs, a Coralife Colormax full-spectrum and a 6,700k bulb. I believe the bulbs are 18 watts each, so 36 watts, not much lighting for a 29 gallon tank. I am hoping to keep it low-tech with lots of Java fern, but I would love to try an Amazon sword (since this tank is tall) and maybe some kind of background plant. The plant selection is very limited in my neck of the woods, I can't find Anubias anywhere! My other option is maybe getting a "low light" medley of plants from an online place.
<Low-tech with plants is fine. I keep my Limia nigrofasciata in a small tank with Cryptocoryne spp., Anubias, and a few odd cuttings of other stuff. Your main problem is algae in low-light conditions (paradoxically, perhaps) but generally livebearers eat algae, so this problem isn't actually a problem at all. Sure, the plants will never be spotless like an Amano-style Nature Aquarium, but who cares? The fish are happy, the plants are happy, and in my tank, the shrimps and snails are happy too.>
I would still like to try laterite, mixed with Schultz Aquatic Soil, with a layer of silica sand on top. Thank you for the idea about the gravel tidy, but it seems this is more of a UK thing...none of my LFS sell such a device. Is there a way to make a DIY gravel tidy? Maybe with some screen mesh, like what they use for windows and porches and what not?
<You are correct about some planted aquarium gear being difficult and/or expensive in the US. It's a common complaint. Much of this stuff is made in Germany, and the demand is limited in the US, so prices stay high. Ambitious American aquarists tend to go marine, so the "high end" freshwater tanks get overlooked. Anyway, my DIY approach is to use plastic mesh from the garden centre. You don't want the nylon thread type, but the stuff more like stiff plastic mesh. Fairly small gaps between the threads are required, but beyond that you can improvise.>
And here is the question that has been really bugging me, is there a way that I can skip using CO2 at all and still have decent growth?
<In practise you can have strong lighting, no CO2, and good plant growth. But adding CO2 will *always* improve the plant growth. On the other hand, in a low-tech tank with slow-growing plants that tolerate low light levels, CO2 won't make much difference. CO2 matters where you have fast-growing plants under strong light.>
The Hagen Natural Gro system seems very affordable, but I am worried about using CO2 in a tank where the water is supposed to be hard and alkaline. The only planted tank book I have is Peter Hiscock's "Encyclopedia of Aquarium Plants" and this book seems a bit dated. Any other book suggestions? I work at a library so that gives me a bit of an advantage! Rhonda Wilson's website (naturalaquariums.com) has been very inspirational.
<Oh, there are *many* good planted aquarium books. I don't have any strong feelings on which is best. As you say, you should be looking for one that covers CO2 and lighting with reference to modern systems, but beyond that I don't think it matters much. There's a lot of argument about the best way to grow plants, but the reality is that (unlike corals, say) plants are adaptable and up to a point will succeed under a range of conditions. So long as they get enough light, CO2, and a proper substrate, you can't really go wrong.>
Lastly, I was hoping to get some personal recommendations as to what
kind of livebearer community to strive for. Do swordtails like only to
be with swordtails, or do they do all right in the company of guppies?
<Male swordtails are aggressive and best kept in groups of one male to two or more females with no other livebearers. They live in rivers and other open habitats, and male swordtails fight to keep their patch free of rivals. The problem in the aquarium is one male will consider most tanks his exclusive domain. In smaller tanks Platies tend to play much nicer.>
I'd like to stay away from mollies as they seem to ultimately be
better off in a larger tank, and kept brackish.
<Agreed, but Mollies do also have the benefits of being really nice fish with great colours. Liberty Mollies are especially nice, if you can find them, and don't seem the need brackish water. They're a distinct species of Molly, and otherwise I agree with you, the standard hybrid Mollies do seem to do best in brackish water. That's not necessarily a bad thing: Anubias and Java ferns and hardy Crypts are just fine in brackish water, and at least one Crypt, C. ciliata, is a brackish water specialist. These plants extract carbon from the bicarbonate in the water, and don't really need CO2 fertilisation. You can obviously add brackish water fish such as Bumblebee or Knight Gobies, both of which are lovely fish. Knight Gobies are especially lovely in good condition, and practically coral reef fish in their shimmering beauty.>
Swordtails and platies might be fun, but I don't want them to hybridize, so that could be problematic.
<Too late -- all the Swords and Platies in the trade are hybrids.>
I have access to lots of healthy mosquitofish and least killifish but in my experience, mosquitofish are very nippy! Least killifish are impressive in a large shoal, but they seem happier in a tank where the water is tannic.
<Hmm... I think this varies. Least Killifish aren't reputed to be nippy, and I find they look best in groups in very quiet tanks. Both should do well in low-end brackish or hard/alkaline water; I've not heard of them preferred soft/acid water, though I admit to seeing many Mosquitofish in swampy streams in Florida.>
Any suggestions or information you could point my way, I would be most appreciative!
<Do also research availability of "rare" livebearers. Limia nigrofasciata, Micropoecilia picta, Poecilia salvatoris, halfbeaks and others can all be fun and colourful alternatives. Being that little bit more difficult to find makes their resulting offspring that bit more desirable and easy to sell/share with others. There are some nice livebearer books out there, and on Amazon.com for example you can get old copies for very little.>
My heartiest thanks for your assistance, and for this website, which is the biggest contributor to my growth in this hobby.
I know you hear it a lot, but this website has indeed taught me SO much!
<Glad to hear it, and thanks for the thanks.>
Best wishes,
Nicole
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Another few questions for Neale. Livebearer sel., Goodeids - 1/31/08
Wow, thank you, Neale!
<Nicole,>
Those suggestions for livebearers are right up my alley. Rhonda Wilson (who I mentioned having really taken inspiration from) also keeps many of these wild type livebearers - Goodeids, Limias, etc. and that's just the kind of setup I am interested in, some messy plants growing however they please, lots of algae for grazing, basically as natural a setup as possible.
<Sounds nice.>
Since there is no hope that the LFS in my area can special order anything like this, I searched Aquabid.com. There are a couple of Limias, one person had a pair of Liberty mollies, and the same person had Ameca splendens, the butterfly Goodeid. (I keep wanting to spell it Goodeoid, so my apologies if there's a typo.) The latter really interests me, mostly because I know zilch about Goodeidae and I love learning something new that's fish related!
<Goodeids are fascinating fish, though some are pretty nippy, boisterous animals!>
I am checking out goodeids.com, which has lots of helpful information, but would you know of any livebearer book that does more than gloss over this species?
I've never seen a book on wild type livebearers, perhaps there is one? It's hard to get a feel for the livebearer books on Amazon since most aren't reviewed.
<I have a couple of specialist livebearer books, of which 'Interpet Guide to Livebearing Fishes' is the one I like best. It's cheap and easy to buy used.>
I can just imagine the look on the faces of my LFS if I asked them to special order these fish, since they had never heard of Pelvicachromis taeniatus, "Nigerian red" kribs before. Their response was, "Are you talking about a freshwater fish or a saltwater fish?"
<Ah, nice fish; kept and bred them myself. Increasingly easy to get in the UK, thankfully. Not sure why US-based aquarists are so poorly served when it comes to freshwater fish.>
This is the same LFS that had a tank full of young rainbowfish which they called "rainbow tetras". I helpfully took out a book from their shelves, and opened up to the page on rainbowfish, which had plenty of pictures...
<Heh...>
I'm going to just take my time and research everything very carefully. After being in this hobby about 5 years, I now know that the amount of time spent planning an aquarium *definitely* pays off in the end.
<Indeed so. And it improves the fun too. You can only buy a certain number of fish, so you'll get the best value from your fishkeeping if you very carefully choose exactly the species you need for fun, colours, breeding, and interesting behaviour.>
Even if the fish you choose nonchalantly can co-exist together peacefully, it's awfully nice to have as close to a perfect stocking scheme as you can achieve, given your personal tastes...and going to the pet store and grabbing this and that is certainly not going to take you there!
<Precisely.>
So for all the newbies out there, it's not the slightest bit absurd to spend a couple months with an empty tank just planning. Use the time to fishless cycle, if need be!
<Correct!>
Thanks so much for your help, I knew you would be able to provide a fresh perspective. I am still a bit nervous about ordering fish online, I've never done it before, but my plan is to try to buy all the fish from the same seller at one time, so that I only have to pay the $30 shipping fee once. I will be sure to acclimate the newcomers carefully, and will be on top of water quality, doing daily water changes to ensure that as many as possible of the new fish survive.
<One bit of advice I'd make with livebearers is to avoid getting fish from one person's batch. Those'll be descended from one pair of fish, so your gene pool is pretty small. Ideally get two batches of fish from two different people. That'll mix the genes up. Inbreeding with livebearers is problematical, and you can easily end up with a fair proportion of fish with crooked spines, deformed swim bladders, Siamese twins, etc.>
Take care,
Nicole
<Will try my best.>
P.S. Thanks for letting me know about livebearers and earthworms, I'll skip that then. My tetras and Bettas absolutely love this treat, it's probably their favorite food, but I can see that their mouths differ considerably from livebearer mouths.
<Lots of fish LOVE earthworms. They're easily the best food in the world for settling in Spiny Eels. But livebearers are, on the whole, adapted to scraping algae and slurping mosquito larvae from the surface. They have neat upturned mouths for just this purpose.>
I'll probably end up skipping the swordtails, although the aforementioned LFS can get green swordtails in, as I have seen those in stock before.
<I'd tend to steer clear of Swordtails unless you have a big enough tank. They're funny fish. But do look out for Swordtail-Platies, Xiphophorus xiphidium, a neat little fish with the looks of a Platy but a little sword like a Swordtail. Cheers, Neale.>

Guppies are simple 5/10/07
Hi Crew,
This letter is just to tick off all those who write in about their problems with guppies and their fry. My grandson (10) just got 2 males and 2 females from an LFS plus a small tank with a filter. Within 24 hours he had over 50 new ones and managed to save them and place them in a separate container which is just like a large jar, no water movement and nothing to clean the water other than changing most of it once a week. It is now 4 weeks later and he only lost 3 babies. I can't figure it out but they must be some very hardy fish. Of the original 4 only one male is left. It killed off the others. I am trying to convince him that it is safe to put the babies in the tank because I doubt they will survive too much longer in that set up he has.
<Well... the popular livebearers are "not what they used to be" back a few decades ago... Do die "mysteriously" nowadays... but still a great joy and growth experience for young folks (and not!) to house, keep... I still can't stop collecting the fabulous one gallon jars available (mostly with pickles for us) that would serve as great small containers... If only the source/tap water were "safer"... Cheers, BobF>

Just a question, re platy density/stkg. 2/28/07
Hi I'm just wondering how many platies can i place in a 10 gallon tank? Also I wanna place 1 guppy so how many can i place after the guppy? Thanks :)
(fancy guppy)
<Six or eight total... BobF>

Guppies Be Us shop in SG
Someone just started a shop that deals only in Guppies here in Singapore. Very unusual thing to do for a tropical fish dealer.
<Yes.>
By the way, are guppies prone to bladder problems like goldfish. A few of mine seem to have lost their balance and died suddenly.
<There are some "Guppy maladies" that are tough to beat... mainly having to do with triggering from being moved from breeders to "too clean" conditions. Best to "buy local" or breed, raise your own. Bob Fenner>
Perry

Guppy Gambit, our enterprising Perry in SG
Bob
Are Guppies still popular in the States? Are you people still importing them from Asia?
<Yes and yes... and the quality has improved, incidental mortality dropped. Have a friend (who sells, delivers freshwater angelfish for a living...) who I'd like to introduce you to (doesn't have email...) but will do so when you want to proffer more information. Bob Fenner>
Perry

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