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CO2 in planted tanks 9/22/08
Hello,
I have a question regarding CO2 levels in a planted aquarium.
<OK.>
First I'll start by telling you about my setup and my problem. I have a 20L
planted aquarium.
<Do you really mean twenty litres? That's a bucket! Or is this a "20 gallon"
tank in a long format?>
Plants include Ceratopteris thalictroides, Nymphaea zenkeri , Lilaeopsis
brasiliensis, Hygrophila difformis, Hygrophila corymbosa, Echinodorus ozelot --
one of my favorite plants, grows like a weed, Hydrocotyle leucocephala, and
Vesicularia dubyana. Inhabitants are 2 LF zebra Danios, 2 LF leopard Danios, 1
LF gold Danio, 1 LF blue Danio, 1 female pearl Gourami, 7 Otocinclus, 1 ghost
shrimp, and 2 cherry shrimp. At one point I put a couple MTS in there to keep
the substrate turned where I can't gravel vac, but I haven't seen any since.
<You won't! Melanoides be well hidden by day.>
The tank is drilled and plumbed to a 5 gallon sump. I use a Rio 1100 for the
return pump, and a Visi-therm Stealth heater (can't remember wattage... 100 or
150) is in the bottom of the sump. I made a couple filter socks out of 50 micron
felt for mechanical filtration, and I clean them weekly. I don't have any other
filtration, I rely on plants and 5 gallon weekly water changes to take care of
the bio-load. Lighting is a 2x24W T5 HO fixture, with 6700K bulbs. I have a DIY
yeast CO2 system, consisting of two 2-liter bottles. I mix 2 cups sugar, 2 cups
water, and 1/4 teaspoon active dry yeast into the bottles. I replace the old
mixture every two weeks, and try to alternate the bottles so that I change out
the first on one week, and the second on the next week. I know they're producing
CO2 because they develop a nice foamy head a few hours after I mix it, and when
I dump out the old mixtures they smell strongly of beer, though I've noticed
that some mixtures are stronger than others. I used this website to set up my
CO2 system: http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html. The only difference is
that I connected it to the Red Sea CO2 Reactor 500, instead of making my own out
of a powerhead. My light is on from 11 am - 9 pm every day.
<Sounds like a nice tank.>
I feed once a day, and I rotate between a flake mixture, freeze-dried daphnia,
freeze-dried bloodworms, and freeze-dried Tubifex (all Hikari). The fish consume
everything within a minute, and all have well-rounded bellies. I'll occasionally
feed algae wafers if my tank looks bare of soft algae or the Otos don't look as
plump as usual, but that is pretty rare.
<OK.>
I do 5 gallon water changes every week to two weeks using RO/DI water (getting
that system was the best investment I ever made) reclaimed with RO Right. I
usually add about 1 mL of Seachem Flourish 1-2x per week. I also had
difficulties with shrimp dying immediately after molts, and the problem seemed
to be resolved when I started adding about 1 mL of Kent Marine liquid calcium
per week and 2 drops of Kent Marine liquid iodine per week. I test the water
weekly just before doing water changes. The tank has been set up since August
19, and even though I had to put all the fish in at once a few days after setup
(moving from an old tank) I never saw any spike in ammonia or nitrite. I
attribute this to the large number of plants and the large mesh bag full of
gravel from the old tank that I put into the new sump.
<Agreed; healthy plants will consume some ammonia straight from the water, and
transferring live substrate from one tank to another will "seed" the new filter
quickly.>
My parameters average as follows:
Nitrate - 15 ppm
Nitrite - 0
Ammonia - 0
pH - 7.4
KH - 2 degrees
GH - 4 degrees
Temperature - 77F
<A bit on the soft side for general fishkeeping, but provided your pH is stable
through the day and between water changes, such conditions are certainly
favourable for many fish. Do bear in mind many plants *do not* like soft water,
notably most Vallisneria, some Cryptocoryne spp., and some Echinodorus spp. But
there are numerous others. Do review the needs of each plant species you have,
and check this hardness level is appropriate.>
I have measured pH at different times of the day, including early in the morning
before the tank has received any light, and it's always 7.4. The KH is also
always constant. According to most CO2 charts, this means that my CO2 is only
about 2 ppm, which isn't nearly as high as I'd like it to be for the plants. My
plants are growing, but not very quickly, and some of the slower ones are
getting a fine hair algae on the leaves, as well as hard spot algae. I've also
noticed some Staghorn algae here and there, but fortunately it's not growing
very quickly. The only plant that really seems to be thriving is the floating
water sprite -- I have to remove about a handful a week or it will shade out the
other plants.
<Floating plants will usually grow rapidly if they're happy, though they do cut
out light and more dangerously consume large amounts of trace elements from the
water column. It's worth making the point that while floating plants are easily
satisfied with liquid plant fertiliser, rooted plants hardly ever are. I didn't
see anything on the substrate used here, and would caution you not to rely on
liquid plant food for your rooted plants. Or put another way, I've never had
success doing that, whereas when I've used a rich substrate (pond/aquatic soil
plus sand/gravel) my plants have always done very well.>
I would think that two 2-liter bottles for CO2 production would be sufficient
for a 20 gallon tank. I can't figure out why it's not producing more CO2.
<Theory is one thing, but if in practise you find this system isn't adequate,
and you've checked its working as it should, well there you are -- case closed.
While I'm all in favour of the "Estimative Index" method as a guideline for
setting up and maintaining planted tanks, to some degree you can't close your
eyes to the facts if the practise isn't working out. So in this case, you may
need extra CO2. That said, I've never yet seen a planted tank where the absence
of CO2 was stopping the plants from thriving. In my experience, CO2 makes
working tanks really shine, but it doesn't turn bad tanks into good ones. So if
you feel that plant growth is poor, do check other factors as well: lighting,
substrate type, water chemistry. Hydrocotyle and Lilaeopsis for example need
huge amounts of light to do well; to be honest even two T5 tubes are unlikely to
be giving the sheer intensity of light they need. Double that number of tubes
and you might be in business. You can usually tell by looking at growth: if the
stems have long gaps between relatively small leaves, then there's not enough
light.>
Would the fact that I inject the CO2 into the sump instead of the main tank
affect results?
<Possibly; any splashing of the water has the potential to drive the CO2 out of
solution.>
I try to keep surface movement as minimal as possible, but does it have to be
completely still?
<Ideally, yes, but since that isn't practical in the aquarium, the best you can
do is minimise turbulence.>
I can't really afford to add more bottles -- I go through a ton of sugar as it
is. I also read something on this website saying that phosphate can affect CO2
readings: http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm. However, it
didn't say how it would affect them -- would it give a false high or a false
low?
<I don't know I'm afraid, never come across this statement before; would
encourage you to contact the author directly.>
I haven't found anything else to confirm, deny, or elaborate on that statement.
I can't tell what my phosphate levels are. I use the API Phosphate test kit. The
scale goes from a yellow-green at 0 ppm to a blue-green at 10 ppm, and the color
I get is even more yellow than the lowest number, so I don't know what that
means.
<It means you have minimal phosphate; in itself no big deal as this is unlikely
to be limiting if plant growth isn't fast.>
So I guess my main questions are 1) Can the presence of phosphates affect the
accuracy of CO2 measurements using the pH/KH relationship, and 2) Is there
anyway to improve the amount of CO2 in my tank without buying an expensive CO2
injection system?
<To answer the latter question, the electronic dosing kits are indeed very
useful and worth investing in. But that said, I wouldn't drop the cash on an
aquarium that wasn't already very promising. I suspect that money spent on
substrate and lighting will deliver a much great bang for your buck.>
Thanks so much for reading the long email. Any help is appreciated.
-Tamla
<Cheers, Neale.>
CO2 fertilisation
Can you run a yeast co2 bottle through a powerhead inlet. 9/17/08
Thanks!
<Maybe, but why? A powerhead will create turbulence, and that'll drive the CO2
right out the water, defeating the entire point of the process. Would highly
recommend going with systems known to work; CO2 is fiddly stuff, and done
carelessly is either a waste of money or a source of pH instability. Cheers,
Neale.>
CO2 Alternatives 07/20/2008
Hello....I have a 29 gal FW community tank using a Whisper 2 filter.
It's illuminated with a 10K light for about 14 hrs/day. I keep the Ph at 6.8
to 7.0 and ammonia is nonexistent due to my mixing Zeolite with my charcoal
filter media.
<Zero ammonia should have nothing whatever to do with the Zeolite, which you
shouldn't be using in a community tank anyway. Unless you have money to
burn, you get much better results with biological filtration, especially at
a neutral pH. My thoughts on carbon in freshwater tanks are well known here
at WWM -- basically I consider it a waste of money. But again, if you don't
mind spending money on stuff you don't need, by all means stick with it! If,
on the other hand, you want good value and good water quality, simply
through out the carbon and Zeolite, replace the space in the filter with
good quality biological media (e.g., ceramic noodles) and do large, regular
water changes (e.g., 50% weekly) instead.>
I regularly add Seachem's Trace, Flourish, and Potassium and I place a
phosphorus pad alongside my filter bag to minimize algae growth. At one time
I included Seachem's Nitrogen in my additives, but that resulted in a huge
algae bloom.
<You shouldn't really need to add much stuff to a planted tank assuming you
have a decent substrate to start with. The fish provide ample nitrate and
phosphate. All you really need to add are trace elements, especially iron.
Standard issue plant fertiliser will do this.>
To remedy sluggish or nonexistent plant growth I installed the CarboPlus CO2
system a few years ago and the improvement is mixed, at best.
<Lacklustre plant growth is almost always down to two things: firstly light
intensity, and secondly substrate quality (assuming of course you've bought
true aquatic plants and not terrestrial plants -- to often widely sold). You
say nothing about light intensity, the 10,000K refers to the *colour* of the
light, not the intensity. For standard plants, you're aiming at 2-3 watts
per gallon. The actual colour of the lights couldn't matter less, as plants
seem to be far more adaptable than, say, corals. CO2 is "icing on the cake"
-- it makes a good system better, but it won't turn around a failing system.
If you remember your high school biology, when you studied photosynthesis
and limiting factors, you'll recall that CO2 is a limiting factor.
Increasing light intensity speeds up photosynthesis up to a point, and then
raising the CO2 concentration speeds up photosynthesis still further.>
I've been considering a gas CO2 system but the tank's location gives no
opportunity to hide a 5 lb. CO2 bottle. Someone suggested a yeast reactor
coupled to a PGP Power Reactor CO2 system built by Plantguild Products. Does
anyone have any history or comments on the effectiveness of such an
approach?
<Yeast reactors can work well, but they're fiddly and require careful usage.
On the flip side, they're relatively cheap to run. CO2 bottles are easier
but more expensive. The best systems of any kind are electronic, with
automatic devices that add the right amount of CO2. If you're going to
invest in upgrading an existing CO2 system, that's perhaps the most sensible
approach. But if you're finding your plant growth is poor at the moment,
then I seriously doubt that CO2 is the key factor, so I'd review other
aspects. Are the plants suitable for your tank? Are you providing the water
hardness they want? Is the water too warm or too cold? What substrate did
you use? What is the intensity of the lighting? When did you last replace
the lights?>
As a side note, if this unit's power head is noisier than my Whisper filter,
it's a no-no. Thanks for your comments! Ken
<Can't really comment on this; properly build powerheads should be close to
silent. If you are finding yours make excessive or rattling noises, it may
be faulty/misused. Air bubbles for example make a racket when inside
impellers. Cheers, Neale.>Re: CO2 Alternatives
7/20/08
Thanks Neal....obviously you've given me a TON to think ....and rethink
about.
KLP
<Good stuff. Keep thinking, reading, asking questions! High end planted
tanks are very difficult to set up and maintain, and argue *at least* as
much work as a reef tank. You want to expend your time and money as
carefully as possible. Cheers, Neale.>
|
How to differentiate CO2 from O2? - 7/10/08
dear sir/madam,
<Hello! Benjamin here>
I have a 250 gal planted tank, and after reading and doing some DIY yeast
CO2 stuff, I decided to buy the real system. The only problem is, how can
you tell if the gas inside the bottle is really CO2? Is there any way to
test it?
<There isn't a way a hobbyist can easily assay the purity of the gasses in
the cylinder, however, purchasing your cylinder from a reputable source and
having it refilled properly will ensure you have CO2>
thank you.
<Welcome. Benjamin><<Mmm, could bubble a bit through some freshwater...
Carbon dioxide is much more water soluble... and will drop the pH quickly...
You won't be making other gasses here though. RMF>>
Adjusting CO2, pH, dKH, the "Shift"
Key on Your Computer Keyboard - 7/16/08
Dear Crew,
<Hello again!>
First, I would like to say thank you to Benjamin. I have confirmed the
bottle was indeed filled with co2;)
<Welcome, and glad to hear it. My thanks to Bob for pointing out a simple
test I overlooked/was ignorant of>
I have a 250gal planted aquaria, heavily planted, with 30 cardinals, 2
Corydoras, 5swordfish, 3 algae eaters, 3botias,1 black ghost.
All fishes seems to be doing fine- the swordfish just bred.
Plant growth, however, has been slow.
I'm experiencing difficulties in achieving the correct level of water
parameters (ph; kH and co2 levels) currently my tank water has ph=8.5 and
kH=11
I'm using sera test kit for testing the water kH and ph.
I'm using well water that has ph=7.5 ; and kH=11. unfortunately, haven't
found a gH test kits from my LFS, so I assume that the water has a high
level of gH, since it shows marking on dry pipelines.
<11 dKH also indicates high TDS>
Recently I bought a CO2 unit from my LFS and it has been running for about a
week. And made adjustment of about 5 bubbles per sec. and leaving it running
throughout the night.
Q: How come my ph doesn't show any changes? Should I pump up the CO2 rate?
<I wouldn't>
Is it because of the high kH?
<This is buffering it, yes. Consider an acid buffer in your water changes>
I've tried using RO water (with ph=7; kH=3)changes but after a few hours the
ph and kH went back to 8.5ph and 11kh.
<11 dKH in a 25o gallon tank is a lot of buffering capacity. Will take many
water changes...also, do you have an sources of carbonate in your aquarium?
Aragonite, limestone, etc?>
Also, it will come to a time when I will have to make water changes that I
don't want to keep buying RO water.
<With your hard water, it may be necessary for you to purchase an RO unit to
make your own- at a significant savings compared to purchasing the water>
What should I do to make my life easier?
<Use lower alkalinity in your water changes for a while, see if this helps.
To make my life easier, please read our page on "How to Ask the WWM Crew a
Question and do use punctuation, capitalization so that I don't have to type
edit your email. These are all archived for posterity (and Google!) and it
will speed the reply and posting- or prevent our ignoring it entirely- if
you follow our guidelines.>
many thanks,
<No problem!>
Hans.
<Benjamin>
|
CO2 Injection in a Sump Return Pump, FW
Planted... 6/11/08
Hi, WWM Crew,
<Tom>
Great website. A excellent resource.
<Ave!>
I have been in freshwater fish only aquariums for many years and then went to
saltwater a couple of years ago. The saltwater tank has worked
out fine. I am now planning to convert my saltwater tank to a freshwater planted
aquarium with fish. In the process of setting up my saltwater
tank I put a sump in. The sump is in the basement and I pump the water about
twelve feet up to the tank in the living room. I really like how
this has worked out and I would like to keep this set up for the planted tank.
Great place to put heaters and other equipment.
<Yes>
I also plan to put in a fully automatic CO2 injection system. This is where my
question comes in. Do you think I can inject the CO2 into the return pump from
the sump?
<Mmm, you could, but...>
The return line from the sump pump goes up twelve feet to the 75 gallon tank in
the living room. When the return line gets up to the tank I tee it and return
the water to both sides of the tank. Would the CO2 get thoroughly mixed in the
return water going back to the tank?
<Carbon dioxide is actually quite water soluble... will go into solution most
anywhere>
I would have the CO2 controller in the living room and the PH probe in the tank.
This would control the amount of CO2 going into the sump
return pump. If you think this scenario will work, any thoughts on the best way
to inject the CO2 in the sump pump?
Thanks for your help.
Have a great day.
Tom
<I still like to have a "visible" check on the injection... in addition to
probes, what have you... Myself... I would opt to use a simple "bubble counter"
and diffuser in some part of your basement sump... so you can visually check,
see the propagation of gas... Bob Fenner>
Re: CO2 Injection in a Sump Return Pump –
6/11/08
Thank you Bob for your response. It is appreciated.
<Welcome Tom>
I had planned on using a bubble counter like you said to have a visual picture
of the CO2 going into the sump. I had planned to just take the
hose from the bubble counter and put it into the inlet of my return pump.
<Ahh!>
Do you think going through a diffuser or reactor before going into my return
pump would be better?
<Mmm, not really... as prev. stated, the CO2 will reading solubilize>
In your response (<Mmm, you could, but...>) I am not sure what you mean. Do you
mean if I add the bubble counter and diffuser it would be OK. Or do you thing
the whole idea is not the thing to do? Could you please elaborate on this.
Thank you.
Regards,
Tom
<Sorry for the lack of clarity. I was merely attempting to lead into my
preference for providing a visual cue... your in-line bubble counter will
accomplish this just as well. Cheers, BobF> |
Extended Cycling 1/15/08
Hi WWM Crew,
<Hello,>
I am setting up a rather small (40 G/ 150L) Tanganyika Tank. Water, Substrate
(Aragonite) and Rocks are in the tank. Filter, Heater and Maxi jet are running.
Filter is a Fluval 305, Media right now are Prodibio Bio Digest on Ceramic
Media, Activated Carbon and 100ml of ROWAphos.
<Sounds great, though I admit to considering carbon a total waste of space in
freshwater tanks.>
I'm slowly raising pH and KH to 9.0 and ~14KH respectively. Unfortunately I
realized that I'll have to be away from the tank
<Oh...?>
for 3 weeks at the end of March. There will be somebody who can fill up
evaporated water once a week, but not much more.
<OK.>
My questions here is, is there any problem to be expected when I extend the
cycling and wait with the livestock until I'm back in late April?
<None at all. If the tank is currently unstocked, throw in one or two of those
dumb "holiday" food blocks. As the calcium carbonate (or whatever they are)
dissolves, it releases small amounts of flake food. The food will rot, release
ammonia in the process, and keep the bacteria happy. I think those blocks last 2
weeks, in which case you might ask your "baby sitter" to throw the second one in
halfway through your trip.>
I really don't want to put a couple of juveniles in there to pair off, and then
not be there if there is any trouble.
<Agreed.>
Should I feed the bacteria with some fish food or organic salmon scraps?
<Yes, but do as indicated above, so the food is releases slowly, a bit at a
time.>
As usual, many thanks for your great help and input,
Jörg
<Hope this helps, Neale.>
Re: Extended Cycling
3/5/08
Hi Neale,
<Hello Jörg,>
it's Jörg again. So of course I couldn't keep my hands still and started to play
with the 10 gal. planted tank, (the Tanganyika is still undergoing that extended
cycle...nothing new there) and I now fully understand the warnings about small
high wattage high fertilizer systems. That chemistry changes for sure fast in
that tank, so I am learning daily, trying to make sense of what I see.
<Yes, this is a problem with small tanks anyway, but as soon as you add biogenic
decalcification (plants removing bicarbonate as a substrate for photosynthesis)
and CO2 fertilisation, the whole things becomes essentially unpredictable -- as
far as I can tell, anyway!>
So in short over a period of 3.5 months I went from
pH 6.8, KH 1.5, GH 1.5,no CO2, 18W to
pH 7.4, KH 5.5, GH 7.0, DIY yeast generated CO2, 36W/8000K.
<Yikes!>
Of course the DIY yeast CO2 required some learning, and over the last couple of
days it was rather low as my yeast batch ran out of steam, and I was waiting for
a better yeast strain to arrive in the mail. Anyway, the pH suddenly raced up to
8.1.
<Hmm... I hope there aren't any fish in there. This sort of pH change doesn't do
them any good at all.>
I made a water change with some low pH water I had from soaking driftwood,
and brought down the pH to 7.8, still high for the Tetras and Corys, but I
didn't want to hammer those guys...
<Couldn't matter less to them; fish want a stable pH long before they want a
specific pH. You can easily maintain Corydoras and most tetras at pH 8, provided
it is stable.>
Made tests again yesterday and the situation is as follows pH 8.1, KH 3.3,
GH 6.7, CO2 generator is still not at full production (~ 48 hrs running).
If I take some of the water and keep it in beaker for an hour or so the pH drops
to 7.4, nothing done to it..., Tank Temp. is 78 F.
<During the daytime, under bright lights the plants should be removing the CO2,
allowing pH to rise; if you left the CO2 running at night though the water would
become acidic. Hence you need to switch off or disconnect the CO2 generator at
night. If you remove the water to a glass where there are no plants, the CO2
presumably dissociates into carbonic acid, and hence the lowers the pH. I
guess... I'm not 100% sure.>
I'm using a pH meter (calibrated to 7.00 @ 77F) and some drop tests for cross
checking my sanity.
<Good.>
Is it the fertilizers?
<CO2 fertilisation? Yes, at least in part.>
What am I not getting here? The pH should drop after the water change and the KH
now being 2 degrees lower, no?
<When you do a nice big water change, the pH, hardness and carbonate hardness
should move towards whatever your tap water is. It will take a little time for
the CO2 generator and the effects of photosynthesis to kick in>
Why does it stay high, even so I've added softer, lower pH water?
<No idea. In any case, I'd be reducing the CO2 amount by 25%, 50% and so on
until I arrived at a value that resulted in minimal pH changes.>
Once the CO2 kicks in it should go down again, but I'd really like to understand
why it stays up there so stubbornly...
<In the ideal case, the plants should be using up the CO2 as fast as you're
adding it, so that pH depression should be minimal. Try using smaller amounts,
measure the pH night and day, and determine by trial-and-error what's the amount
you need. The theory is fine, but practise is what counts. Try leaving off the
CO2 for a few days, and see how the pH changes. If it still changes, then
there's something else going on.>
Thanks, for your input, can't wait to hear what you think.
Jörg
<Cheers, Neale.>
|
Planted Tanks... Seltzer
water for CO2, pots... 2/28/08
Thanks For Your Great Website, The Cream of the Crop ......
<Okay!>
I am not new to the hobby, 20 years of Fresh Water Planted & Marine/Reef. Enjoy
the hobby so much I build custom acrylic aquariums/sumps, complete set up in
Garage to do so with all essentials needed for a professional result.
<Neat!>
(Police Officer as a Career) I recall as a child, a neighbor with a planted
tank, would replace his evaporated water with Seltzer Water, Have You ever heard
of this?
<Gosh... it's been years... but yes... for the, oh I see this below>
I personally don't see the reason to add CO2 to any of my Planted Tanks (But a
firm Believer of Iron Additives).
<Agreed... carbon dioxide is readily available... from inside and outside
tanks... readily soluble in water... generally not rate-limiting...>
I have a RODI Unit that I use as an ATO, but Always pondered the thought of all
the half full seltzer bottles I emptied into the sink.
<? Maybe... smaller bottles, are they going too-flat for drinks? Can/could be
poured in your tanks>
Second Question.. any benefit in leaving potted plants in the pots when
planting? Take Care.. Matt
<Mmm, perhaps to save a bit of mess... some are made to fall apart/decompose
over time... By and large I remove these pots myself ahead of planting. Cheers,
Bob Fenner>
Co2... Yeast/bottle type...
DIY media 2/18/08
A while back I purchased a cheap co2 reactor. you know the ones that run on
yeast fermentation. I was wondering is there a cheaper way to refill the unit
other then the packets . Can I make my own?
<Oh, yes... there are a few home-made/DIY mixes of sugars, yeast packets that
can be used... I would look into what is posted on the Krib (.com) here>
The name of the system is Hagen Nutrafin CO2 System.
<And worth experimenting... Bob Fenner>
Plant CO2 questions – 1/2/08
Hello.
<Katherine>
I was wondering what the average bubble rate should be for a co2 system to be
beneficial to plants.
<Mmm, depends... on how much plant life, metabolic rate, lighting... other
aspects of water quality, particularly nutrient availability and alkaline
reserve...>
I have a 55 gallon tank and want to add CO2 to it.
<Is a worthwhile project>
However I heard that letting the CO2 run 24 hours isn't the greatest thing ever.
<Correct. Likely best to use a controller... or to have a timer turn off during
"dark" hours>
If I bought two Hagen co2 systems, which only effect 40 gallons total, would it
still be a problem to let that run overnight?
thanks.
<Depends... FWIW I would read a bit more re this use before investing... Some
definite potential downsides... Can be over- mis-used... Do read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/co2agfaqs.htm
and on the Aquatic Gardener's Association site re. Bob Fenner>
Freshwater refugium, co2
questions 12/07/2007
hello;
<Hello.>
I own a 125 gallon freshwater aquarium with 12 Corys, 2 bushy Plecos, 8
upside-down cats, 2 pictus cats, 4 paradise Gouramis, 4 African butterfly fish,
and 15 tiger barbs. the tank is heavily planted with java ferns, swords, water
sprite and moneywort. there are 2 36" compact fluorescent lights on top. I made
a 20 gallon wet/dry filter and connected it under the tank with a hob spillover
box. the whole thing has been set up for 3 years now and I have had no problems
to speak of.
<OK.>
I am now thinking of turning my tank into a discus tank, as well as adding co2.
I have been doing a lot of research on-line, but I still have a few questions. a
friend of mine has a cool refugium he made and filled with a milfoil of some
type. I was thinking this would be a good step to take before getting the discus
(I plan on first removing the barbs, Gouramis and butterfly's to make room).
<Butterflyfish actually work quite well with Discus, the two species completely
ignoring each other. Your real problems will be with things like Synodontis and
Pimelodus, which are a bit too active and nippy to really work well with Discus.
Paradisefish (Macropodus opercularis) won't appreciate the super-hot water
Discus like either.>
eventually I want 12 discus. my plan was to simply raise my wet/dry up about a
foot and place a 20 gallon plastic bin next to it and use a siphon or spill box
to transfer water. then place my water pump in the plastic bin. is this a good
idea?
<In theory, yes. But do remember the more splashing and water circulation, the
more quickly the CO2 will leave the water. High levels of CO2 are good for
plants, but fish aren't crazy about them. In general, it's often better to focus
on either plants or fish. If you look at the 'Nature Aquarium' type set-ups,
fish play a very minor role, and the stocking level is very low. Discus are
quite demanding fish, and your time is better spent focusing on water changes,
water quality, etc. Discus don't like bright lights either, limiting your
selection somewhat, unless you provide lots of shade from the very start.>
then I want to use a small compact fluorescent over the refugium and set it to
run at night. what are some good plants for a refugium?
<Almost anything. Floating plants that grow fast and are easy to crop work best,
and algae best of all.>
do I have to add any substrate?
<Nor for algae of floating plants.>
I would prefer not to. I also want to add a co2 system. does it make more sense
to add the co2 before I get the discus, or after?
<I'd get it first, so that you learn how to keep a constant pH, which adding CO2
tends to work against. Once you have the perfect balance of pH with CO2
concentration, and your plants are all thriving, then get your discus.>
all co2 systems I have seen come with a bubble counter and diffuser.
are these things really necessary?
<Yes.>
my plan is to just use a cheap foam bubble wand and place it in the bottom of
the bio chamber in my wet/dry.
<Won't work. CO2 is largely insoluble in water, hence the need to maximise the
time the CO2 is in contact with the water. That's what the bubble box thing
does. It stops the CO2 from bubbling up to the surface too fast. You're also
going to have real problems keeping a constant CO2 level if you do it by eye.
Adding CO2 at random will do no good to your plants, since they respond only to
steady changes in conditions, not sudden ones. Obviously adding too much CO2
will harm your fish by reducing the pH.>
will that be harmful to the bacteria?
<Filter bacteria don't like acidic water, so anything that reduces pH is bad for
them. Once the pH gets to 6 or less, they stop working.>
if so, were is the best place to add the co2?
<Doesn't matter, so long as the CO2 level is constant.>
will having a refugium light at night, and plants growing in the day allow me to
run co2 24 hours?
<You probably don't want to do this. A 12 hours on, 12 hours off system should
work better. Most plants need a dark period, and don't thrive under constant
illumination.>
if so can I use a regulator without a solenoid.
<No idea.>
my water is moderately hard, will I need an RO filter, or will this setup be
sufficient?
<Depends on the fish being kept. But as a rule, moderately hard water with a
neutral pH is fine for captive-bred Discus. Wild-caught Discus are a different
matter. In any case, the KH and pH are critical factors in determining how much
CO2 to add to the water, so you will need to measure those and act accordingly.>
I really appreciate any advise you guys can give.
<Cheers, Neale.>
Air Stones and Live Plants 8/1/07
I have thoroughly enjoyed spending some time with your
website for the past several hours! Great stuff. I am getting
back into the aquarist hobby after taking a 17 year hiatus! I am
re-starting my 38 gallon tall aquarium set up with a Magnum 200
canister (still going strong). I would love to have live plants
in the tank, but the last time (read 17 years ago), I remember
having what I thought were circulation issues due to the depth
of the tank. My LFS recommended a large air stone to help
circulate the water. Now I read some of the FAQs and aeration
doesn't seem to be a recommended practice for planted tanks. I
would love your recommendation. I enjoy the serenity of some
bubbles in a tank, so can I get away with some, but not a large
stone?
<Greetings. The deal with airstones, and indeed any form of
turbulence in a planted aquarium, is that the splashing causes
carbon dioxide (CO2) to leave the water. Since plants need this
CO2 to thrive, when this is lost from the water, plant growth
slows. In fact, serious plant growers use devices to *add* CO2
to the water and take care not to have any splashing that will
cause the CO2 to be lost. To improve circulation, these tanks
usually rely on pumps that move water about with the use the air
bubbles. Any decent canister filter should provide enough
circulation, but additional powerheads can be added if required.
Regardless, in planted tanks, it is normal to *understock* the
aquarium anyway, so water current is less critical than in a
heavily stocked community tank. Bottom line: aim for good plant
growth, or go for water with bubbles, but you can't really have
both. Cheers, Neale>
Aquatic plants 5/17/07
hello again.
<Hello>
I have a new question about Aquatic Plants. I'm thinking about starting a Garden
and seeing some of the pictures online I was and still am completely amazed by
it all. However, I still have a few questions.... the first question I have is
about filtration. Is it possible that when I set up the tank and the plants that
all I could use would be a bag of active charcoals to help put co2 into the
water system for the plants to feed off of?
<Maybe... adding carbon will in some ways make it available... but gaseous
introduction is the best, surest way of provision>
I have looked on the site... but there isn't a sections for water garden plants
for dummies so all the places ive looked have all these technical words that I
really don't understand. could you help me out please?
thanks, Paul
<Do give the Krib (.com) a read as well as Dennerle and Tropica's sites...
perhaps Takashi Amano's books, Pablo Tepoot's one volume on plants, planted
systems...
There is, indeed, much to know... and therefore good reason to invest ones time
in study here.
Bob Fenner>
Plants looking better 3/11/07
I contacted you folks about 11 days ago with a concern with algae and
<Hello Bob, glad to hear from you again.>
poor plant growth, at Brandon's suggestion I purchased Flourish Iron. I
also found the articles you suggested very helpful. I have already
noticed a decline in algae and my plants are perking up.
<Good to hear.>
Putting this 55 gallon tank together has a very interesting project and
somewhat expensive. I have over $600 in the stand, plants, fish and all
<My wife freaked when she saw how much it was going to cost to do our
reef tank.>
accessories, also my girlfriend has several hundred in it. With that in
mind, the CO2 system I am putting together will be very low cost as I
have access to many of the items at my work and home.
<Low cost doesn’t mean low quality. I am all for DIY.>
I purchased a used regulator EBay for $25, I'm looking for a tank, I
have a solenoid valve, have made a bubble counter
<Interesting.>
For now I am using a home brew system
(www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html)injected into my
filter intake.
<I used something very similar to this for three years when I was
breeding Pterophyllum. The plants just loved it.>
I made this for a few dollars, it's producing around 80 bubbles a
minute!
<It is quite impressive when you realize how far a little yeast can go.
>
I'm checking the PH a couple times a day.
<The only time pH really becomes a concern with dosing CO2 is at
night. The plants stop producing O2, and start producing CO2.>
Thanks for your help!
<Anytime. I wish more people were interested in keeping plants. They
look great. Send a pic of the plants when you get your new reactor
done. Brandon.>
Bob
|
 |
Discus In A Planted Tank 1/28/07
Hey there after lots of research and countless hours. My answer was still
unclear. Now the question. do I need a CO2 system for a fish and heavily planted
tank?
< The plants will do better with some CO2 in the water. Some stem plants like
frill usually need CO2 to thrive. Sword plants and Cryptocorynes usually don't
require CO2.>
Is this tank ready for discus?
< Discus can live in a bare tank to one that is heavily planted. Discus do not
like to be stressed. I would recommend that you wait until you tank is fairly
well set up before adding discus. If you are going to add plants after they are
in and established, then I would work in small areas over time so not to disturb
the tank too much.>
I am looking to make an Amazon biotope.
< These are very pretty tanks, except that in the Amazon the warm acidic water
is so poor in nutrients that there are very few aquatic plants.>
Right now I am running a 75 gallon FW. The substrate is 135 lbs.. fluorite 4 in.
thick all around and 6 medium driftwood pieces some plants 3 Amazon swords
2 canister filters Eheim pro 2128 thermo and Rena xp3. temp is about 30.6 C. or
85 F.
< I think this is a little too warm but I know other discus keepers keep their
tanks this warm.>
pH.5.7 KH 3 GH 1, Peat is being used in one filter for its added benefits.
Fish
20 neon tetra
10 glow light tetra
5 Rasboras
1 king tiger Pleco L 065
The tank is month old, I do 2 water changes a week with RO/DI water 30 gallon
each time. I treat the RO water with equilibrium powder form Kent Zoe, Discus
Trace
< Sounds like a great tank. I would recommend adding Bio-Spira from Marineland
to make sure your tank has all the biological bacteria established and you don't
get any spikes.-Chuck>
Does Co2 brake (break) <sic> silicon sealent (sealant) down? "Let's Slow
That <sic>Silicon Down, Give Em A Brake." <Silicone... RMF>
12/5/06
<Hi, Liz and Brandon>
My husband and I are starting a fresh water discus tank and want to add live
plants. I understand we need Co2 for the plants.
<Not absolutely necessary, the correct substrate and lighting are equally
important.>
We are running a 75 all glass aquarium tank and want to know if the Co2
will damage the silicon sealant
<Will not>
and how much Co2 should be used to keep the ecosphere balanced?
<Check out this link. Anything you want to know about growing plants can be
found here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/AquariumGardenSubWebIndex.html>
Thank you,
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Elizabeth and Brandon
Need Help - Green Water Problem, planted tank 9/27/06
I am having a green water problem that so far, I have not been able to get
rid of. To get rid of the green water, I have been doing ~ 75% water changes at
least twice a week, cut way back on fish feedings, added more fast growing stem
plants such as Anacharis, Bacopa, and Wisteria, and stopped adding the Seachem
Flourish fret's. I even tried a blackout, in which I unplugged the lighting and
covered the tank with a comforter for 24 hrs. The problem remains…whenever I do
water changes, the green water comes back in about 3 days.
<Wonder what the root problem/causes are here?>
My tank and water parameters are given below. Considering that GH and KH were
low when I tested yesterday evening, I also added 2 tsp of Epsom salts to boost
GH, and a tsp of baking soda to boost KH. I will retest this evening and post
the results here.
<Okay>
Also, am a bit surprised that my CO2 is so low considering that I am using three
2L yeast bottles, which seems to be a bit more than a tank of this size would
need for adequate CO2 levels.
Any help would be appreciated!!!
- Michael
Tank Parameters
Tank: 38 gallon tank; heavily planted
Age: 2-1/2 months; started 7/7/06
Filter: Aquaclear 50
<Need more than this likely>
Substrate: Eco-Complete
Lighting: 2 X 55 watt PC; 12 hrs/day
CO2 Source: Yeast Reactor; 3-2L bottles using wine yeast; ceramic diffuser
Fert.s: Fish load (a bit on the heavy side on intention); Seachem Flourish
Water Quality Parameters
pH: 6.9-7.0; Tetratest pH/pH probe
Nitrate: 0; Salifert Nitrate Test
Phosphate: 0; Salifert Phosphate Test
<Being taken up readily by the algae>
KH: 1.6; Salifert Alkalinity Test
GH: 0; Tetratest GH
CO2: 5-7 ppm; CO2 calculator,
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm
<Well... I would "stay the course" at this point... with one change. I would
turn off your DIY yeast/C02 reactors... they may be supplying more than carbon
dioxide here. Bob Fenner>
CO2 to keep pH down at higher KH 9/18/06
Hello Crew
<Tim>
At the moment, my pH is around 6.5 which is roughly where I want it.
However, the KH is very low (perhaps 1 dH) and I am worried about pH
crash.
<I am too. I would raise the KH here>
Whenever I try to raise the KH, the pH goes up with it (no real
surprise
there).
<Mmm, actually... one can raise KH w/o alkalinity... easily enough
with calcium or magnesium chloride... Please see the second citation
here:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=PCTA,PCTA:2006-31,PCTA:en&q=raising+KH+without+alkalinity>
I am also resisting using phosphate-based buffers.
I am thinking of adding CO2 to my fish-only, 50-gallon tank in order
to
maintain the pH at where it is but with KH much higher, say 4-5 dH.
<Not altogether safe to make such an ongoing adjustment... I would
soften the water here first>
Bearing in mind this is a fish-only tank (with silk plants), what
would be
the most economical setup to add CO2?
Thanks
Tim
<Again... Please read here:
http://www.google.com/custom?domains=www.WetWebMedia.com&q=using+carbon+dioxide+for+plants&sa
=Search&sitesearch=www.WetWebMedia.com&client=pub-4522959445250520&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3A99C9FF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A1%3B&hl=en
The cached versions... Bob Fenner>
Need Help :(... Planted Tanks, CO2, Water Hardness 7/20/06
This is going to take a while to write down , I live in an area where the
tap water is 0 KH and GH with a PH of 7 ,
<Wow! The "Land of RO?">
I recently got a 350 litre fish tank , I like heavily planted tanks so decided
to do a lot of research about CO2 injection (The yeast way)
<Yikes... need some added buffering capacity...>
having made 2x2 litre reactors and staggering the changing of one every week
whether it needs it or not I think I have roughly the same constant flow of Co2
entering the tank , The pH dropped on first injection
<Oh yes>
so I used Bicarb to increase the PH back to 6.9 , Now the water has a KH reading
of about 4 to 5 and a GH reading of 0 ,
<I'd increase the general hardness here...>
The problem is this , The PH just wont stay balanced (Not a good thing) I am
getting green water (I think this is mainly due to me fertilizing the plants on
the same day as I put them in) , The plants stream with oxygen for about 2 hours
a day (This is a good thing), Lighting is the standard 30 WATT and 15 WATT
Multilux system that comes with a Trigon 350 (Which is what the tank is) . Now ,
There's a million and one articles on the net about starting CO2 but how about
stopping it , What would I have to do .
<Turn the count (of bubbles) down by half every week or so>
I love this hobby and I want what's best for my fish and plants and I also
want what is best for me (The joy of staring into an aesthetically pleasing tank
for hours a day) . The tank has been running around 6 weeks , I used mulm and
aged aquarium water from my other 2 aquariums to jump start it (which worked
really well ) None of the fish introduced have shown any signs of suffering or
illness , All feed normally and squabble and display as they should . Please
send me advise on stopping CO2 (Even if I don't use it right away) . Or some
encouragement as to what I am doing is ok . The green water is quite annoying
and I want that sorted out ,
<Can, will be with the use of either a commercial product for increasing
alkalinity (more than bicarb)>
But the priority is in sorting out this PH imbalance , The waver goes from 6.9
to 7.1 sometimes a little lower sometimes a little higher . Temperature of tank
78-80 (But in this recent heat wave it has risen to 84 a couple of times,
Nothing I could do about it all 3 of my tanks did this) . PS I have layered the
tank with 3 inch of vermiculite under a sand substrate all plants are doing fine
, Haven't added fertilizer since initial set up as I thought the algae was
utilizing this and wanted the nutrients to be used up so the plants could start
outcompeting the algae and hopefully green water would go , Anyway please send
me some advice and post an article to for people who want to stop using CO2.
<Don't have time, plans for a/the article right now>
On initial set up the bottle ran out of Co2 and the PH climb was unbelievable
(So I know I cannot just stop it and that's that) I think this was due to me
using bicarb to balance the PH and the bicarb was forcing the water to its own
PH equilibrium without the presence of carbonic acid to keep it in check .
<This is likely the case, yes>
You know the KH and GH and PH now , Is it even worth trying to use with such
strange water parameters ? ,
<Yes, still worthwhile. Just need to buffer the water to near the pH you're
looking/shooting for>
Bah I witter too much thanks in advance for any help you can give me , Yours
Antony Piwczuk one stuck guy :\
<Anton... Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwph,alk.htm
and the linked files at top... Look into a commercially available product to
buffer your water near where you want... 7.0... 7.2... Bob Fenner>
Growing Plants w/o C02 7/4/06
Hi,
<Hi, Pufferpunk here>
I have a 20g standard tank, Eco-Complete substrate tank with one 18w Power Glo
light in the hood. Plants are alive but not growing much at all. I do not want
to use C02. If I bought a double florescent light fixture, would I double my
plant growth without awaking the algae growth?
<It would be helpful to have 2 bulbs instead of one, I have a 90g planted tank
w/4 bulbs.>
I dose with Excel once a week and do a water change as well, 50 percent.
<I am not familiar with Excel. I am having great success using Yamato Green
(www.yamatogreen.com) & Jobe's Plant Spikes placed by the roots--no CO2.>
I am pretty much looking for a low light, low maintenance 20g tank. A friend
of mine (we have the same set-up except for the substrate and the plants) are
not doing too well. One tank that I maintain, has one light, no CO2, Fluorite
with freshwater gravel and the plants are huge--java fern growing all over Tis a
38g tank, and a power-Glo light, the next size up from the 24inch.
What should I do to step my plant growth up a notch, other than CO2, if
possible.
<I swear by Yamato Green! (BTW, please try using proper capitalization next
time you write, as I had to correct for our FAQs.) ~PP>
Air pumps, aerating planted tanks - 05/13/2006
I was reading in a book and it said that keeping air pumps on during the day
is not really a good idea... if you have plants.
<Can be detrimental... as this "drives out" Carbon dioxide, adds oxygen...>
It did not really give a reason but it said that since photosynthesis stops
during the night hours,
<Actually... the dark reaction/s of photosynthesis occur during non-lighted
periods...>
and everything in the tank gives off carbon dioxide, that it is a good idea to
have an air pump / air stone running at night. Should I leave air running all
day or do what the book suggests.
Thank You
<I would likely leave all running continuously... much more to this "story" then
stated here... likely other factors are much more important to your overall
plant growth, health... Too much chance, possibility of trouble with leaving
gear off... Bob Fenner>
Planted tank CO2 flow rate - 05/05/2006
Hi WWM crew,
<Nick>
Firstly, love the site and a huge thank you!
<Welcome>
I'm about to set up a planted tank and am considering using a Clippard
EC-2M-12-L electronic valve instead of the more typical needle valve (e.g.
Clippard MNV-4K2) and solenoid configuration.
http://www.clippard.com/store/byo_electronic/byo_mouse_valves.asp
I need to determine whether the flow rate of this valve is adequate to
supply the CO2 needs of a 4 ft planted tank.
<From their site... yes, they have many such valves>
From the data sheets the Clippard MNV-4K2 needle valve flows a maximum
of 5 SCFM, whilst a Clippard EC-2M-12-L flows a fixed 0.5 SCFM.
To me the flow of 0.5 SCFM seems to be adequate, especially in terms of
the usually quoted 1-5 bubbles per second flow rate for a planted tank.
<Yes... much more than adequate... I would actually rig this system up, try
counting the bubbles produced per your setting... to see if this is going to be
too much. I would measure the resultant drop in pH here. Bob Fenner>
Thanks.
Nick Daglis.
CO2 and the Planted Tank - 03/11/2006
Hi Bob,
<Ray>
Last time we met it was at MACNA in DC. Normally I am a Reef Tank hobbyist
however I do enjoy some of the more exotic freshwater fish and of course, being
a reef hobbyist, I enjoy seeing a tank grow to its potential. So naturally if I
keep a Fw tank it would have to be
planted.
<Both wonderful world types>
3 times so far in the past 2 years, I have almost managed to wipe out my tank
because of CO2 injection.
<Not hard to do with some gear, water that doesn't have much buffering capacity>
I am using a solenoid operated needle valve and a 20 lb CO2 bottle. The first
time, was rather quickly after I first installed the CO2 system and one night
one of the kids asked my why all of my fish where in the top corner of my tank.
<Yikes!>
I was injecting too much and this was at night when the lights were off (It is a
55 Gal Tank lit by 4X65Watt PC lighting with a 15 gallon sump). I theorized
that I wasn't so much putting too much CO2 into Solution, but the plants were
not using it as it was dark and that caused a subsequent pH drop.
<Likely so>
(Sure enough, I was right). After many water changes and running air stones, I
only managed to kill very few fish. (Of course my prized glow in the dark
danios did go as my zebra ple#o).
<Ouch!>
As a result, I bought a Milwaukee Controller and I set the solenoid on a timer
(only turns on during the day) and reduced my CO2 stream to about 1 bubble every
5 seconds. (from 1 a second).
<Good>
About 6 months later same situation. We managed to catch it time, however it
looked like the needle valve was winged all the way open. I
figured it was done by one my cats and wrote it off. About 2 months ago (after
running over a year without a hitch), same thing again. Here is what I
discovered. Junk builds up in the CO2 line either in the diffuser or airline.
However, I adjust the CO2 bottle to get what I feel is a good bubble
rate. In the third case, the airline blew off of the diffuser which was clogged
(and not visibly either)
<Carbon dioxide is so water-soluble, that such diffusers are not necessary...
small bubbles will go into solution given their release at sufficient depth...
otherwise, there are some neato devices to hold the bubbles underwater for a
while for this to occur>
with some white stringy stuff. The CO2 build up in the line caused it to
disintegrate (This was CO2 Safe silicon tubing or so I was sold)
<Very odd then>
until it blew off the diffuser. The bottle now has no impediment to leaving the
bottle and pH drops like a
rock while I am injecting enough CO2 to look almost like a steady stream. The
first time this happened I figured the needle valve was
mistakenly hit, but now realize I am the idiot that opened it. The second time
the airline was blown and it was obvious.
<I see>
Now at the advice of some hobbyists, they are telling me that diffusers are so
yesterday and CO2 reactor is the way to go.
<Is one way>
I ordered the CO2 Reactor 1000, which is a big ugly black thing that I don't
want in my tank even though it hangs on the outside. (This way if the line goes
I can't over inject), it will just blow co2 into the air. I cannot find a
single article on the web or magazines which even suggests that I can place this
reactor in the sump, which this tank does have.
<You can>
Currently the sump has 2 heaters and the return pump with a filter portion made
up of bioballs. (I actually have an extra skimmer
in there but it didn't work for crap but I thought I would experiment).
I can put the reactor in the sump and the CO2 would be good and dissolved into
the water before it hits the main tank. For some reason
folks on the planted tank forum think this is a bad idea and I can't think of a
good reason except some CO2 loss to before it makes it to the
main tank. AM I Missing something?
<Mmm, not as far as I know, can tell. Your concern, the loss of carbonic acid
through disruption is about it>
Thanks y'all and see you at Saltwater U2 and MACNA.
Ray O'Connor
<Ah, yes... Looking forward to it more and more. Cheers, Bob Fenner out in HI>
Yeast Won't Produce CO2 - 01/09/2006
Hi crew. I very much thank you for your earlier responses. I have been stuck
up with a problem yet again. I want to know which type of yeast is suitable for
the DIY method. I used bakers yeast at first. It started producing CO2 in just
half an hour but after 2-3 days the production of CO2 is stopped. Will active
dry yeast be suitable for this purpose. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanking you
< Check the expiration date on the yeast box. Old yeast packages are usually the
problem.-Chuck>
CO2 injection accident 12/20/2005
Dear WWM crew,
Hope all is well at your end. Unfortunately I can't say the same, having
lost 4 Amano shrimp and 3 guppies -my entire stock basically in a matter of
hours. On the bright side, all the snails appear to be dead too!
The tank is a 20 gallon long, with 2" Fluorite under 2" gravel, planted,
130W of PC and CO2 via a fermentation canister. The tanks has just been
cycled (3 weeks) with the 3 fish introduced yesterday, and the shrimp 1 week
ago (in the middle of cycling)!
<A fore note: I would not use CO2 on such a new system, nor place shrimp in
same>
Unfortunately, the fermentation went out of
control and the foam ended up in the tank. I did a 90% water change with
water that was 4F warmer than tank water, straight out of the faucet, since
the fish were floating on their sides, and I was not prepared for this but
felt that anything would be better than what was in the tank at this point!
I added a 3"X4" sheet of PolyFilter, but that didn't help the shrimp. Two
died and two committed suicide on the carpet... The water was clear after the
90% change, but hours later is a little cloudy again. What else can I do?
<Nothing more than what you have detailed... other than moving the livestock
ASAP to another established system>
Would another 90% water change stress the plants more than a little bit of
yeast and their fermentation byproducts?
<A matter of balance...>
As always, I am grateful for your time and help...
Narayan
<Sorry to hear/read of your trials. Steady on my friend. Bob Fenner>
New fresh water tank setup 10/25/05
Hey everyone,
<hello>
I've been using WWM for tons of research and I finally have my first set of questions. I've been doing saltwater for about 6 months now and it's
been going great. My g/f wants to get a fresh water tank for her house. I haven't done fresh water for quite some time and even then I never did
plants (this will be a fully planted system). I'll just list out what I want to get and let me know if I'm on the right track.
The tank is going to be a Clear-For-Life 75g and I plan on running 4x96 PC retrofit.
<good>
I've read actinic isn't great for freshwater so this will be all 6700 to 10000k daylight. The filtration I want to use is the
Marineland Emperor 400. I don't know that I really want to go canister but if it's
essential then I will.
<canister provides better mechanical filtration!>
The substrate is what is confusing me. I read that fluorite is hard on the stomach of
Cory cats and that I should have
a top layer of smoother gravel.
<that is true>
I've also run across floral base which seems to be less coarse.
<I wouldn't worry about the Cory cats too much>
Should I just stick with a 2" base of fluorite and a top layer of a different gravel?
<that should be fine>
What would you recommend for the top layer of gravel?
<I would just go with the fluorite...the Cory cats should be fine>
I imagine vacuuming will be out of the question with a full plant system but will I need to worry about any bad
bacteria growing like Cyano?
<not unless you have high phosphates, nitrates, etc>
I'm also a little confused about the CO2 reactors. I don't want to do the DIY but I also don't have quite enough
money to buy a big fully auto CO2 setup. Would something like the
Hagen
CO2 Natural Plant System work? Would this be enough for a 75 gallon or do
I even need to worry much about CO2 with this setup?
<that is only recommended up to 20 gallons...you would need something bigger than that.>
<<I have used two of these units on the same tank.... will do for a
larger system, if filled/maintained on a staggered basis.... I staggered
mine by two weeks. Worked adequately. -SCF>>
Thanks for having such a useful site and I greatly appreciate any and all advice.
-Craig
<good luck, IanB>
pH and Instability - 10/26/2005
My tank's pH is about as unstable as I am!
<Yikes! Stabilize yourself, first, hon!>
I have a 150 gallon show tank that I converted to a central/south American planted tank 2 months ago. The source water is unfiltered, treated for chlorine/chloramine, and has: pH: 7.5, GH: 3, KH: 5. The tank has a day time pH of 7.8 and night time pH of 8.3,
<Yeee-ikes!>
GH: 0.5, KH: 5. How do I stabilize and lower the pH without the normal non-plant-safe buffers? The substrate is layered 2" peat,
<Mm, I usually recommend keeping peat in a container in the filter instead of in the substrate.... it can become a bit of trouble.>
1.5" 1/8" quartz gravel, and 2" play sand. I did solubility tests on all substrates and they were all null. Decorations are all granite, slate, and driftwood. Lighting is 250w 10000K Ushio MH and 65w 6500K PC (both stolen from my old reef system). I have a small amount of green algae on the sand that the
Plecos and snail won't touch. Livestock: 1 med. Angel, 1 sm. Severum, 1 sm. Clown loach, 6 lg. Giant danios, 2 sm/med.
Plecos, and 1 2-inch yellow/orange snail (unidentified thus far)...I don't want to put any more in it
until the pH is stabilized but I want to do Kuhli loaches and Discus. Oh, I also haven't put any plants in yet for similar reasons...as well as current budget. Please help!
<Uhh, are you adding CO2 to this system, perhaps? Though I suspect the peat may have something to do with this, I am really starting to wonder what else might be going on. pH changes with changing CO2 levels, which is why I ask.... Also, is this tank aerated? 24/7? What sort of filtration? Any other system details you can think of? Also confused, -Sabrina>
pH and Instability - Addendum - 10/26/2005
Oh, I forgot to include my temps....night time temp drops to 78 F and day time high (because of the Metal halide) is 80 F. I feed twice daily from various Tetra,
Wardley, Omega One, and OSI flake foods and
occasional Nori for the Plecos and snail. Thank you.
<All sounds good so far. -Sabrina>
pH and Instability - II - 10/27/2005
Thank you for the response!
<You bet!>
I'm at my wits end!
<A tough place to be. Take a deep breath and chill, everything resolves with time, one way or another. Take it all in stride....>
I'm not using CO2 and I haven't a clue what's going on.
<Nonetheless I still wonder if CO2 might have something to do with this.... Uhh, have you got a
CO2 test kit? Or can you find one inexpensive enough to purchase just for "the heck of it"? I'm curious as to the
CO2 levels in the morning, midday, and an hour or so after lights-out. I don't want you to go out and drop several bucks to satisfy my curiosity for something that might totally not be the issue, though.>
I've done the peat moss thing before without buffers and had no problems, though source water was a little bit harder and only pH 7.3. Do you have any more ideas?
<Aside from how the peat may be breaking down, my only other thought is toward that hefty lighting. Would you try decreasing the lighting for a couple of days? Maybe to half of what it is? See how that affects the pH, if at all. Though I still think very strongly that the peat may be a contributor, here.>
I do se a fair amount of gas bubbles in the sand and the on the algae on the sand
directly below the MH. Any and all help would be appreciated! Branon.
<Please do keep me updated if you test CO2 or try augmenting your lighting - I would like to see how this plays out. Also confused, -Sabrina> CO2 Regulator - Milwaukee vs. JBJ? - 03/31/2005
I am interested in starting a freshwater planted tank using CO2
fertilization, but am in need of some help in choosing a good CO2 regulator. I've been looking at the regulators by JBJ and Milwaukee, but both seem to have a downfall. The JBJ has a fixed working pressure that is factory set and non-adjustable, and the Milwaukee does not include a check valve in its attached bubble counter.
<Downfalls, indeed. I would think that the Milwaukee would be easier to manipulate to your needs....>
On at least two websites I've seen the Milwaukee regulator for sale, but adapted to include a bubble counter with check valve. Most recently, on
Aquariumplant.com, I found what they refer to as a "Top Gun"
CO2 regulator. By calling this company I learned that this is actually a Milwaukee regulator adapted to include a bubble counter with check valve.
<Strikes me that this is the better option.>
This leads me to wonder if I can just buy a Milwaukee regulator as it is typically sold and adapt it myself.
<Probably.>
In other words, does anyone know if there is a bubble counter with check valve that can be purchased to replace the bubble counter without check valve that the regulator comes with?
<Mm, I don't see why not.... I don't know of any specific details to give you, as I have only limited experience with pressurized
CO2 systems.>
I know the JBJ bubble counter with check valve is sold separately, but I don't know if it would be compatible with the Milwaukee regulator.
<I also do not know.... You could contact the manufacturers, but I'm not certain they'd be inclined to give advice regarding modding their products to work with competition's products.>
Any additional advice you can provide regarding CO2 regulators would be greatly appreciated.
<My best advice to you is to hop on a planted tank forum, such as the all wet thumbs forum at
http://www.aquabotanic.com , and find out from folks who have done exactly what you are looking to do. I apologize for not having all the answers for yah, but I'm sure someone there will.>
Thanks!
<You betcha! Wishing you and your plant tank endeavor well, -Sabrina>
Planted tank question
Hello Bob!
<James here today>
I have a large 96x30x30 tank that I am wanting to make into a freshwater, planted tank. I am looking for opinions on filtration for a tank this size. I was thinking about a large wet dry filter, versus 3 Eheim 2228 filters with the built-in heaters. The tank is reef-ready with one large, center overflow. Also, not wanting to go crazy with plants, is
CO2 a necessity?
<CO2 is not a necessity. More important to have a nutrient rich bottom for the plants to feed on.
Fluorite is one product, but there are several. The wet/dry will definitely improve oxygen levels in the tank as one plus, but will also help rid the tank of
CO2 due to the large amount of gas/air/water exchange. You may want to check Pentair's (formerly rainbow) filtration systems. They have systems large enough to filter a tank such as yours. Drs. Foster & Smith is one place that I know that
carries them. I'll also post a link here that has FAQ's about wet/dry filters and planted tanks.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/tksstdsagFAQs.htm. James (Salty Dog)> DIY CO2 yeast spill
Bob,
HELP!! Here's the situation in a nutshell. I have a 70g planted tank running 4 months now (5 zebra danios, 3 true SAE's, 1 pleco, 6
Serpaes,
2 o-cats). Last night while with a babysitter my 3-yr-old kicked over the DIY
CO2 bottle and this morning there was a horrible white cloud.
We couldn't see the back of the tank! The SAE's are all gone and the others are not looking good. What needs to be done to clean up the
yeast spill and salvage the tank?
Thanks. Jeff Tucker
<Quick like a bunny change out as much of the water as possible.... toss in whatever PVP containing water conditioner you have (Amquel, Stresscoat...) in multiple doses...
BobF>
Phosphates, algae, PMDD, and CO2 injection
Hey, WWM-ites,
<Glen>
Once again, thank you for your time in answering all our questions. The
Wife has OK'd making a donation on your new Amazon Honor System link (at
the bottom of the homepage, for those of my fellow readers who haven't
noticed it yet) after two more paychecks.
<Thank you, and her>
MacL, your answers on the
acrylic questions will save me lots of money, and I appreciate it!
<Yay!>
I've arrived at a few more tentative decisions for near-future
directions, and would appreciate feedback.
<Okay>
We started our 55g freshwater community tank with sodium biphosphate (to
drop the pH 9.5+ tapwater here in Austin),
<Wowzah! Liquid rock!>
phosphate buffers and fake
plants. We've swapped out most of our fake plants for real ones now,
and I've stopped adding more phosphates now that we have a luxuriant
carpet of algae (more on that in a minute). From what everyone says,
using a phosphate buffer in a planted tank is pretty well guaranteed to
cause rampant algae growth.
Am I wrong in understanding it this way?
<Mmm, can, but not necessarily>
Based on this theory, I'm using Poly-Filters (for the last three days)
in the Emperor 400 to extract the phosphates. Doesn't this remove the
buffering, as well?
<Mmm, no... not carbonates, bicarbonates... unless they are bound with metals>
(Seems like a "well, duh" question...) I monitor
the water chemistry religiously; test the pH (7.1-7.15) at least twice a
week with a meter (calibrated every few weeks), do reagent-based nitrate
tests (never above 20ppm) twice a week, and ammonia and nitrite tests
(both 0.0) every time we've added livestock (but we're at max population
density now, so those will go to once a month unless something looks
awry).
<Outstanding>
We change 14+ gallons every week (we make 25 gallons at a time
in a dedicated trash can), and with my new phosphate-free regimen the pH
is 7.05 to 7.1, but the new-water kH is zero.
<I would add at least a few heaping tablespoons of sodium bicarbonate to each
batch... or if you'd prefer, a commercial product containing this, some
carbonate, borate...>
I bring the tap pH down
to just acidic with hydrochloric acid, and balance it back to neutral
with sodium bicarbonate - fairly easy to achieve, but a bit too much
either way and the pH goes to either under 6 or straight to 8.3 (sodium
bicarb buffer point).
<Oh!>
If the Poly-Filter removes all the phosphate
ions, and hence all the buffering in the tank, how fast can the dreaded
"pH crash" happen? Hours/days/weeks?
<Days, could... likely there is some other buffering mechanism at play here...
substrate, decor...>
With the water changing regimen,
is it still as big a worry?
<Not "that" much>
Should I spend the money for a "system"
like Seachem's Acid/Alkaline Buffer additives (chemically almost the
same as what I'm doing now, AFAIK), and add the appropriate blend of
them after I've achieved neutrality?
<Up to you... I'm a cheapskate and so would not>
I've spent hours on the Internet
investigating buffers, and there apparently isn't anything remotely as
stable as phosphate buffers (without getting into exotic DNA-analysis
stuff at $35 per 100 ml). Right? Worry or not too?
<Not too... do what I would... add a gallon or so of just straight tap to the
whole shebang. No big worries re pH...>
When we added our first live plants (Vallisneria and Cabomba) we got
quite a growth of hair algae on the Vallisneria and a bit on the edges
of our silk plants. (From pictures on the Internet, it looks like Vals
are a pretty good growth medium for hair algae.) We've since added more
Cabomba, some dwarf and giant hair grass, a huge planted watersprite
(and some floating), a wad of Java moss, some Ludwigia repens, a cluster
of Alternanthera, and we just planted two tiger lotus bulbs which
haven't sprouted yet. All the plants are doing better than I expected
them to, especially after upgrading to a 110-watt compact fluorescent
fixture (the AGA with GE 9325K bulbs). The Vals are sprouting nicely at
the main plants and sending runners everywhere - we have sprouts coming
up nearly two feet away from the main plants.
<Neat... and good bio-assay evidence of no outright shortage of macronutrient/s>
I've been cutting out the
older worst-covered Vallisneria blades to physically remove the bulk of
the hair algae (the scorched-earth philosophy), and am going to see if
the color in the silk plants will stand up to a bleach dip to kill the
algal inflorescence thereupon.
<Should do so... and/or keeping them in the dark for a week or so>
Y'all have indicated that patience,
rational fish-feeding, and healthy plants will eventually starve out the
rest.
<They will>
I've just ordered the components for making some PMDD to boost
the plants' micronutrient levels (particularly the iron, as I understand
it's important to the algae battle) and will let you know how/if it
works. Any other suggestions (other than CO2, the next subject)?
<For others reading this PMDD is an acronym for "Poor Man's Dupla Drops"... an
ersatz near formulation of Horst and Kipper's business (Dupla) complete plant
fertilizer product... you can see more re this on "the krib" (search via the Net
please)>
I've pretty well convinced myself to put a yeast-based DIY CO2 injection
system in the DIY trickle filter I'm building.
<Neat... and some semi-sneaky advice... start hinting that what you'd REALLY
like for upcoming birthdays, thank yous are carbon dioxide infusion gear... a
five-ten pound bottle, regulator, needle-valve... as I am VERY sure you will
"out-grow" the pop bottle technology but quick>
I'm thinking about a
forced-water injector in the final sump compartment before the return
pump. The question I have about this concerns our tank aeration. We
have what I call a "wall-'o-bubbles" along the back of the tank - a 36"
bubble stick (at my Wife's request - she loves the look).
<Wow! And a humong oh air pump I'll wager>
I know that
aeration is danged near a cardinal sin in a planted/injected tank, but
too bad - the wall stays, don't argue with Mama. :-)
<Hotay!>
Will the aeration
severely decrease the benefit of an injected system, or is this (1) any
CO2 is good CO2 or (2) who the heck knows, Glen, put it in and find out?
<It will still be of discernible benefit, bubble wall and all>
Will the heavy surface aeration somewhat diminish the pH impact of the
CO2 injection (tying this in with my diminishing buffering capacity)?
<Yes>
Maybe tweak the kH to 90-100ppm or so with sodium bicarbonate after I
start and keep an eagle eye on the productivity of the yeast generator
(since going from pH7.0 to pH8.3 would be a "bad thing")?
<? Yes to raising the KH, GH... the use of CO2 will lower pH, not raise it>
Whaddaya
think, any comments/ideas/suggestions?
<You're doing fine... are you a bonafide member of the Aquatic Gardener's
Association? You might enjoy, benefit from such>
I'll say it again, thank y'all for your time and advice!
Glen
<Thank you. Bob Fenner>
Lighting/CO2 and Platy question
Good afternoon WWM crew, I have a three part question that I'm hoping you
can provide some guidance on. My first relates to lighting/CO2: I've
had my 30G tank for about 8 months now and have enjoyed it tremendously. It
is stocked with a number of plants like swords, stem plants (Cabomba, wisteria),
etc. Right now I have about 1 watt/gallon of light and I feel that my
stem plants, in particular, are being effected more due to insufficient light. Now
I've read your website re lighting/CO2 etc and it was extremely helpful. I
would like to increase the light using full spectrum bulbs (Vita lite, etc per
Mr. Fenner's articles) to about 3 watts/gallon. Now my question,
since an increase in light intensity gives you more photosynthesis during
daytime hours and ultimately more CO2 consumption, do I have to inject CO2 into
my system?
< Increased lighting will definitely increase the demands by the plants for
nutrients like CO2.>
Would more frequent water changes help?
< The trace minerals found in tap water would need to be replenished as the
plants use them up.>
I would love to be able to plant all kinds of plants even plants that require
bright light, but I don't want to become a chemist and have to go nuts over the
amount of CO2 needed, how it affects my pH, etc, etc. Is there an
alternative?
< Plants will only grow as well as the nutrients around them are made
available. Stem plants in particular seem to need more CO2 then others. There
are still many beautiful tank setups with out CO2. I would recommend that you
set up your tank the way you want. Some plants may flourish while others take
off. Try different ones and see what works in your tank.>
My second question: I've read articles regarding the use of carbon
instead of CO2 (Excel Carbon was the brand name). Would this make my
life easier?
< Carbon in general does not increase the CO2 content of the water. I am not
familiar with this product. There is a carbon block in which a current is run
through and it generates CO2 . Look for it at Belowwater.com under
products.>
My final question is regarding my female platy. I've had her for
about 5 months and she has given birth to two fry (or at least 2 I've been able
to save) that have grown to be healthy fish. The last few days she's
been acting really strange. She has been swimming erratically, kind
of like something spooked her, it's almost spastic. She is not
swimming erratically 100% of the time just every few minutes she has one of
these "fits". There are no signs of discoloration,
parasites, bloat, ich, velvet, etc -she looks completely normal! My pH is about
7.2, nitrites zero, nitrates about 10 ppm. The temp is around 79
degrees. I also add some aquarium salt at every water change, which
is weekly. She still feeds a bit, but spends most of her
"free" time hiding and has become unsocial. I'm afraid that
she's getting old or has come down with some disease. I have 1 other
male and female platy (also 1F platy that is only 1/2 inch long), 2M and 2F
guppies (1F guppy that is 1/2 long-no color yet), 4 Neons, 3 cherry barbs, 1
Cory catfish and (I think) 1 Otocinclus. Do you know what this is? How
to treat? Thanks and happy holidays, Chris
< She may have come down with a internal bacterial infection. Try and treat
her with Metronidazole.-Chuck>
Lighting/CO2 and Platy question
Good afternoon WWM crew, I have a three part question that I'm hoping you
can provide some guidance on. My first relates to lighting/CO2: I've
had my 30G tank for about 8 months now and have enjoyed it tremendously. It
is stocked with a number of plants like swords, stem plants (Cabomba, wisteria),
etc. Right now I have about 1 watt/gallon of light and I feel that my
stem plants, in particular, are being effected more due to insufficient light. Now
I've read your website re lighting/CO2 etc and it was extremely helpful. I
would like to increase the light using full spectrum bulbs (Vita lite, etc per
Mr. Fenner's articles) to about 3 watts/gallon. Now my question,
since an increase in light intensity gives you more photosynthesis during
daytime hours and ultimately more CO2 consumption, do I have to inject CO2 into
my system?
< Increased lighting will definitely increase the demands by the plants for
nutrients like CO2.>
Would more frequent water changes help?
< The trace minerals found in tap water would need to be replenished as the
plants use them up.>
I would love to be able to plant all kinds of plants even plants that require
bright light, but I don't want to become a chemist and have to go nuts over the
amount of CO2 needed, how it affects my pH, etc, etc. Is there an
alternative?
< Plants will only grow as well as the nutrients around them are made
available. Stem plants in particular seem to need more CO2 then others. There
are still many beautiful tank setups with out CO2. I would recommend that you
set up your tank the way you want. Some plants may flourish while others take
off. Try different ones and see what works in your tank.>
My second question: I've read articles regarding the use of carbon
instead of CO2 (Excel Carbon was the brand name). Would this make my
life easier?
< Carbon in general does not increase the CO2 content of the water. I am not
familiar with this product. There is a carbon block in which a current is run
through and it generates CO2 . Look for it at Belowwater.com under
products.>
My final question is regarding my female platy. I've had her for
about 5 months and she has given birth to two fry (or at least 2 I've been able
to save) that have grown to be healthy fish. The last few days she's
been acting really strange. She has been swimming erratically, kind
of like something spooked her, it's almost spastic. She is not
swimming erratically 100% of the time just every few minutes she has one of
these "fits". There are no signs of discoloration,
parasites, bloat, ich, velvet, etc -she looks completely normal! My pH is about
7.2, nitrites zero, nitrates about 10 ppm. The temp is around 79
degrees. I also add some aquarium salt at every water change, which
is weekly. She still feeds a bit, but spends most of her
"free" time hiding and has become unsocial. I'm afraid that
she's getting old or has come down with some disease. I have 1 other
male and female platy (also 1F platy that is only 1/2 inch long), 2M and 2F
guppies (1F guppy that is 1/2 long-no color yet), 4 Neons, 3 cherry barbs, 1
Cory catfish and (I think) 1 Otocinclus. Do you know what this is? How
to treat? Thanks and happy holidays, Chris
< She may have come down with a internal bacterial infection. Try and treat
her with Metronidazole.-Chuck>
Something's Brewing in the Fish Tank.... - 10/14/2004
I have read extensively on this both here at your site, again great job,
<Thank you for the kind words!>>
and at numerous others including the krib.
<Likely my favorite spot for CO2/GH/KH information.>
my questions are this:
co2 affects ph not KH right?
<Uhh.... Yes. I believe so.>
peat affects KH, GH and ph?
<Yes, yes, and yes.>
I have seen it suggested that lowering with peat first will help hold a more
stable ph when using Yeats co2, is this true to your knowledge?
<Can do better than knowledge on that - I can testify to seeing it happen in my
own tanks. My tanks are stuffed, er, "to the gills", with peat and bogwood, and
if the CO2 stops, everything stays stable. Seems a freaky miracle, to me, but
the pH doesn't even flinch.>
I'm at 8 dH and 4kh, so I'd have to raise my KH after bringing down the ph with
peat right?
<Mm, may be a good idea.>
the more popular yeast mixes aren't very effective for me, but I live in
Cheyenne, Wyoming so wont that altitude make a difference, maybe why I'm not
seeing the production most are?
<Uhh, I really, really don't have an answer to that; so sorry. It seems to make
sense, though.>
I get one bubble about every 20-35 sec.s with mixes others get 1 a second.
could be my water I suppose....
<Or good/bad batches of yeast. Do try to get your yeast from a brewers'
supply. Also of note, it will take quite a while for a newly mixed batch to
"rev up" to production; mine take a couple days to be producing regular, timely
bubbles - my fix for this is to run two generators on the one (72 gallon) tank,
and stagger the mix, so one is always going full swing while the other is
starting up or petering out.>
I've been using a bell but am considering banding it to the powerhead so it
enters where the water does and chops up the bubbles, any thoughts and feelings.
<I think and feel that this would be a very good plan. It will get the CO2 more
easily dissolved into the water.>
This has been a little frustrating and the info available is black and white
different....
<Indeed. Patience really, really is key, here; it will take you time to work
out what will be best for your tank. A good, quality brewers' yeast will be a
good move, if you're not already using it, and do consider setting up a second
DIY on a Rubbermaid container to "fiddle" with, as well, if you're concerned at
messing with your fishes' water too much.>
help!
:)
Ian
<I hope to have been of service.... Please feel free to let us know if you have
further questions. Wishing you well, -Sabrina>
Planted tank set-up, CO2 questions
here it is my second try bob
Hi guys!
don't be gentle. hehe, a good idea with WWM the info is just... beyond value.
seriously. hiring?
So I started this project. the idea was to plant a slightly heavily planted main
display with fish and inverts and then have a smaller 20% or more at least of
the main tank volume refugium heavily planted on reverse lighting cycles from
each other. and incorporate inline mechanical filtration by use of floss or
sponge media inline to the input and output of the refugium. was that clear?
< OK so you pump water out of the big tank into small tank and then pump the
water from the small tank into the big tank.>
the idea is to correct the plants reverse cycles of o2 to co2 during day and
night. also supplying co2 and oxygen to the water at all times.
< So when the lights are on the big tank and the plants are absorbing CO2 and
giving off Oxygen then the smaller tank will be generating CO2 because it will
be dark and absorbing oxygen from the big tank.>
in the interest of diy I bought filtered, sanitized, non-silica Premium Playsand
by Quikrete. I used about 2.5-2.75 inches. it ranges from extremely fine to what
would be at least 10-25 grains of sugar for lack of a better measuring system at
that size.
I started with the refugium, cycling it (also with a bag of established gravel
in a nylon toe. hehehe)) and adding fish and some Aponogeton bulbs to start.
also a powerfilter while it is stand alone. right now I have with my Red Sea
Master Kit:
ammonia=0
nitrite=0
gh-8
kh-4
ph-7.6
water temp at=80F
I use two pigtail fluorescents 20 watts each in the only spectrum I could find I
think 10k, Daylight. Seems white for daylight I feel they misclaim. grr.
<Something with a color tamp of around 5500 K might be better.>
questions:
this is what I didn't see in my research. some of this I know I could be doing
better I just don't have monetary means and I support a few tanks already. am
trying to further freelance design career outside of actual design job, anyway
right now I'm using a powerhead, cycles I think 90 times an hour. just free
hanging, and I'm powering venturi air till plants come in.
Should I use any air once plants establish?
< Even with live plants you need to provide some water circulation. Check the
oxygen levels or watch the fish if they look stressed then definitely add some
aeration.>
I use Sera Fishtamin and Sera Florena fertilizer. German company, Local Store
only carries that brand. any thoughts or exp. with these?
< Expensive and many not be needed depending on the plants you are keeping and
the CO@ levels.>
what should the flow be like in the proposed tank once plants are in?
< I still like at6 least three times per hour even though the plants definitely
help keep the water clean.>
spray bars or basic return?
< Check the CO2 levels. Typically aeration releases CO2 from the water, but
there is a small amount of CO2 in the air that is absorbed into the water and
can be utilized by the plants. Try it both ways and check the CO2 levels and see
which one works the best by watching how the plants are reacting to the
changes.>
I see many claims about livestock that sounds suspicious like 1 Gold clam per
gallon over at azgardens.com. how accurate is that? it cant be can it?
< Stocking levels are almost always recommendations based on past experience and
what usually works for the average aquarist. These can always be modified once
you understand the requirements and are prepared to meet them.>
I wanted to mix clams and shrimp in both the tank and refugium. any thoughts?
freshwater clam info is hard to find!
< If you place fish in a tank with invertebrates than you always need to be
concerned about medications affecting the invertebrates. Many medications will
cure your fish but kill off many invertebrates so stay away from medications
that contain any copper. Other than that there is not too much info available to
aquarists.>
more filtration? canister? I mean the fully submersed media bothers me, a
wet/dry should b more efficient, but it robs co2 doesn't it?
< I have had poor luck using wet dry filters on planted aquariums. The wet dry
filters have such a large surface area that the living bacteria actually
absorbed the CO2 making it unavailable to the plants. I use canister filters in
my planted tanks.>
so I figured plants , livestock and some mechanical inline with the reverse
cycles. am I making a mistake, its hard to b sure of oneself without experience.
I read filtration which popped those questions...
< A good canister that pumps at least three times the tanks volume in one hour
would work fine in a plant tank.>
my apono's started sprouting so I gently popped them into the sand. one is
growing outrageously and is just hairgrass looking right now about 1.5 inches
tall, about 4 or 5 of these protrusions. tiny green but mostly reddish deep
purple I didn't think my lights would support such a plant as the reds have
slower or is it needier photo processes. feelings and thoughts on that?
< The bulb may rot if buried in the sand so I would try just letting them lie on
the surface of the sand. New growth is often reddish in color wait until they
are fully grow and I am sure they will be a bright green.>
will killies eat plants I have seen conflicting info?
< There are hundreds of species of killifish and I am sure that there are going
to be a few that many nibble on plants.>
feelings on SeaChem flourish tabs in sand like that?
< The tabs will definitely be appreciated by the plants.>
thoughts about SeaChem Flourish excel carbonate without co2??
< There have been many different ways of adding CO2 to a planted aquarium. If
you add it every morning when you turned on the lights then measure the CO2
levels at different times throughout the day to see when the tanks need more .
The question then becomes if and when you are around to add it and how much will
it cost in both money and you time to keep it up. When you spend more time
working on your tank you may not enjoy it as much.-Chuck>
thanks guys you have no idea how much I appreciate this. can I donate or
something? I didn't see anything
Ian
Planted tank, substrate, CO2 Qs
hmmm. I was afraid the Fluorite would be too rocky and damage the roots of
any root bearing plants I have....
< Fluorite is like a fired clay and is softer than typical sands and gravels.>
hm.... about the current over the plants. I was going to blow a powerhead over
them. but stop using aeration from the venturi as it would remove to much co2.
in fact I got to thinking and the easiest thing to me is to have two tanks and
run one at night and one at day that way there would always be abundant oxygen.
< That would be a perfect balance as long as all things were close to each
other.-Chuck>
Ian
Carbon dioxide infusion AND circulation
Dear Bob,
Well done for the website - very informative.
I have just started using a DIY Co2 injector for 4 small plants I
introduced recently. I have had my 1 metre aquarium for over 10 years
however I always had big fish so plants were never possible to keep.
Since I have the Co2 injector which is giving out very small bubbles
(the big bubbles are being broken down by the water filter), do I still
need aeration? I am asking this question as my 3 clown loaches tend to
sleep more than they used to do when I switch off the aeration.
I would really need to have some good advise on this, as I do not want
to harm the fish. Having said that the aquarium looks nicer without
aeration.
Thanks a lot for any advise you will be able to give me.
< Yes you still need to aerate the tank. During the day when the lights are on
the plants take in co2 from the water and give off oxygen. At night when the
lights are off the process is reversed and the plants take in oxygen from the
water and give off co2. So at night there is a competition between the plants
and the fish for oxygen. Aeration adds oxygen to the water so both your fish and
plants will benefit. -Chuck>
Antoine Azzopardi
MALTA
CO2 plant tank questions 7/29/04
Hello all, I last contacted you last fall when I was setting up my 50 gallon
planted tank and you all were exceptionally helpful for which I'm eternally
grateful. I'm now thinking about taking the plunge/dive/leap into CO2
and have a couple of questions for ya, if you don't mind. I have a
"reasonable" collection of plants (a couple Amazon swords, some
Ludwigia, a couple of crypts, a couple of Vallisneria, and some newly planted
wisteria and moneywort). Fish-wise, I have 9 true SAE's, a somewhat ornery krib,
4 white clouds, 3 Cory's, 3 oto's, and about 6 Amano shrimp. Lighting
is ~144w, half full-spectrum and half actinic (I believe, I haven't looked back
since installing them last fall). pH is ~7.4, KH about 2-3, GH? (my
home has a water softener installed and my test kit never seems to give an
understandable reading). I have a Magnum 250 canister filter that I
normally keep filled with activated carbon. I'd like to do a
pressurized CO2 setup with a 5# tank, regulator, needle valve, reactor/diffuser,
bubble counter, etc. Mainly to improve my plant growth. 1. Any way
you think I could run the CO2 into the canister to use that instead of a
separate reactor?
< Sure , but the bacteria in the filter will utilize the CO2 just like a
plant so you will have to measure your CO2 levels for awhile until you get the
readings you want.>
2. Someone is selling a canister/regulator on eBay - I *think* it would work but
I'm a little wary of the "fixed pressure" he mentions in the
description - is this what I
want, assuming that I use a needle valve to control the flow?
< Looks like this will work just fine.>
The description reads: "Aqualine Buschke CO2 Regulator. The regulator unit
is completely chrome plated and has a fixed working pressure of 1.5 bar, a needle-valve
for fine adjustments, and two pressure gages showing both bottle
and working pressure. The regulator fits every industry standard CO2 bottle with
an external valve. 5 lbs co2 tank with brass valve The Cylinder is less than
five months old for CO2 use in aquariums, beverage dispensing and paintball. A
CO2 valve is included with a standard fitting for easy connection to all
regulators. I bought these
items new about six months ago to help with my planted aquarium. The increase in
plant growth was incredible. Unfortunately a house move has forced me to sell
the
aquarium and all the accessories."
3. My wife is a little concerned about having a CO2 tank in our
dining room (leaks, explosions, torpedo's, etc). I assume that
treating these things with respect (including strapping them upright) and
monitoring for leaks will drastically reduce those risks - am I correct?
< CO2 is not flammable so as long as the tank is not ruptured or the top is
knocked off you should be fine. A fire will increase the pressure inside the
tank and a slow leak is no big deal.-Chuck>
Thanks VERY much in advance for any advice you can provide.
CO2 levels
I have purchased a CO2 system and LaMotte test kit for my Freshwater
Aquarium .
Is there a recommended level for CO2 for a planted tank that I could use for a
guide line ? Would appreciate your assistance .
Dieter Cordes
Leesburg , Florida
<Hi Dieter, aquabotanic.com and www.thekrib.com have a lot of good
information on this topic, check out the links below for more information. Best
Regards, Gage
http://www.aquabotanic.com/charts.htm
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/ >
Installation questions re CO2 for freshwater
I'm installing a CO2 reactor for a freshwater planted
tank. Please see pictures attached. Does it look
like I installed this right?
<Yes, does so to me>
It's a JBJ Solenoid Regulator with a JBJ check valve/bubble
counter. I'm not sure how the bubble counter/check valve
works. Is that supposed to fill up with water?
<Has to be filled with liquid to show passing of bubbles>
I can regulate the carbon dioxide flow by watching the output in the
vortex chamber when the pump is off. How many bubbles per
minute should it be?
<You'll need to experiment with some aspect, likely pH of your
system... I would start off with 30 bubbles per minute (one every two
seconds) during the light hours (during photosynthesis) and see how this
does for your plants, altering the system pH, and "turn it up" a
few weeks from now if you find you want more growth, can support the
addition of carbonic acid>
What pressure readings should be on the gauge? As long as it's
not in the red, it's OK?
<Mmm, strictly speaking, yes... on the main/supply side the tank will
read several hundred psi when the tank is full, cranked all the way open
(it can read just a few pounds to tens of pounds though to supply the
"needle valve"... and this should read a few pounds psi... just
enough to "push" the CO2 through the bubble counter, into the diffuser.
Bob Fenner> |
|
|
CO2 and SAEs
Hi.
<Hello.>
I set up a 75g plant tank last week. I have a pressurized CO2 system with a
controller (Pinpoint). I have the controller set for 6.9-6.8 ph and the KH is
4.0.
<Sounds good>
I picked up 5 true Siamese Algae Eating fish last Sunday. They have been doing
well until yesterday. They are staying close to the bottom and not really doing
much of anything. There color is ok and they don't seem to be breathing hard.
Based on what I read the CO2 level shouldn't be too high for them.
<Hmm.... I haven't heard of these fish having any sensitivity
issues with CO2; they are very, very widely used in planted aquaria that involve
CO2 injection, and regarded as one of the most efficient algae eaters for such
tanks. Do certainly check your CO2 and O2 levels, but I think it
would be wise to look for other issues, as well. Have you checked
ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? Did you quarantine the fish prior to
adding them to the tank? Are the fish showing any symptoms of
illness?>
Please let me know if you have any opinion.
<Well, it could be possible that they're just settling into a new
environment, but certainly do be on the lookout for anything else amiss - test
the above levels, fix if necessary. If nothing is out of whack, you
might try stopping CO2 for just a couple of hours to see how they respond -
though I really don't expect that the CO2 is the cause of this (unless it's way
off). If they were not quarantined, I might suspect ich or some other
parasite of the gills, perhaps.>
Thank you. Ken
<Sure thing - hope this is just something simple! -Sabrina>
CO2 question
First of all, can you please reply to this email at XXXX Thanks.
<Done.>
Ok. So I have a 20 gal and a 37 gal tank. The 20 is fixing to be
upgraded to a 55 in about 2 weeks and I would like for it and my 37 gal to be
planted tanks.
<Wonderful!>
I have some plants in the 37 gal, but they are all very young small, and slow
growing. In doing my research on setting up my 55 and ordering the
supplies for it, I came across an article on co2 reactors in a
catalog. Seeing as my ph is normally high-about 8.0-8.2- (which
doesn't seem to bother my fish)
<Might be an issue in the long run, though - but usually, a stable pH is more
important than an exactly accurate pH.>
and I seem to be having trouble getting the plants to grow, I was hoping you
could tell me more about these. I was thinking about getting a fully
automatic one (less chance for me to screw something up) but I am perplexed by
all this bubble counting and stuff. How do these things work? Are
they all really complicated? Will I be sitting behind my aquarium for
hours each day counting bubbles? :-) As appealing as that sounds, I
don't think they would accept that excuse at work.
<Here's the article that got me started: http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/co2-narten.html On
my 72g, I have two such yeast systems, and I alternate them, so that when one is
petering out, the other is going strong, and vice verse. I haven't
(yet) had any major pH issues. This yeast DIY method of CO2 injection
is cheap and *relatively* easy, but pressurized canister systems are much more
fool proof - with an initial cost of somewhere in the neighborhood of $200. One
more link, absolutely LOADED with info: http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/
>
But I digress. I wish I could tell you what plants are in my 37 gal,
but the two that I did know, I forgot and the other 3 came in those packages of
mystery bulbs.
<Ahh, I can at least give you a genus to research, find out what species you
have - those "mystery bulb" packages are almost always Aponogeton
bulbs.>
In the 37 gal, I have 2 clown loaches 6 tiger barbs, 5 Rosie barbs and a pleco
that will be traded in or put in the 55 once he gets big enough.
<Sounds great - but do keep in mind the ultimate size (12") of the clown
loaches, too. Fortunately, they grow very slowly.>
In the 20 (and please don't send fish control to my house to arrest me as my
husband did this ignoring my pleas and listening to some very bad advice from an
LFS) there is a silver tip shark an Oscar and a very big pleco (I know, just a
touch overcrowded, hence the need for the 55 gal)
<Biting my tongue ;) >
I have compensated by way overfiltering the 20.. but anyway, I need to know if
you recommend co2 reactors for my type of setup for plant growth and ph control
(I know I should make my own water w/ peat, but I simply would have no where to
put it) or is it too much of a hassle? If co2 reactors are not the
best thing for me, what would you recommend? I don't plan on planting
the 55 for at least 2 mo.s to allow it to get established, but the 37 is ready
to go now.
<Above all, to lower your pH, peat is the best route. You can add
it in a filter or whatever floats your boat - but it *will* do the trick. It'll
also turn the water yellowish/brownish, but I find that nice. All you
need for water changes is a Rubbermaid bucket with a filter sock full of peat,
fill, let it sit, and you're set. And if you drop pH in any manner,
with CO2, peat, whatever, you'll need water of the same pH as in the tank when
changing water - again, peat is the answer, IMO. It would benefit you
to do both CO2 and peat if you wish to do plants.>
Please excuse my long, rambling email. I blame it all on my ADHD! Thanks
as always for your good and useful advice.
<You bet. -Sabrina>
New Plant tank and CO2
Excellent - thanks again. You've got me a little intimidated with
the C02 stuff, though. Is that critical, or can I start without it
and see how it goes?
-Jason
<No Problem, I remember the first time I had CO2, butterflies in the stomach,
weak in the knees, wondering if my C02 mix will be as good as others, "what
if I add too much sugar and not enough yeast"? just kiddin; the tank will
do fine without injecting CO2, that is the beauty of this hobby, there are so
many different ways to do things, and the amount of bells and whistles you can
add to your tank is almost limitless. Intense lighting, CO2,
fertilizer, and warmer water will accelerate the rate of growth of your plants,
with less of the above stuff the plants will |
