Goldfish Not Eating, pond   8/13/07
Hello,
<Hi there>
I hope you can help. We recently purchased a new home in the Seattle area that has a lovely large koi pond with 7 koi and one gold fish. I've named her Lips because she has a red line along her upper lip. We've been in the house three weeks and up until about 5 days ago, she seemed fine. But she has stopped eating and mostly just sits at the bottom of the pond. She does swim about some, but she stays at the bottom. When I feed the fish, she comes up a little but makes no real move to eat. Up until this behavior began, she ate with the other fish. We've tested the water in the pond for nitrates (0), nitrites (0), ammonia (0), ph is 7.1. I'm not sure how old she is but she is about 8-10 inches long if that helps.
Thank you
Eilean
<Mmm, well... sometimes a lone pondfish will seem to get in a funk... but maybe this one "swallowed a bug" that was not to its liking here... And hopefully will rally in time. If the rest of your fish livestock seem fine, I would just be patient here. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Re: Shrimp/eating pattern, for goldfish, repro...  - 6/25/07
Neale... thanks again for your reply. I witnessed spawning for the first time this morning at 5:30am. At first I thought it was a shark feeding frenzy, then a murder taking place when finally realizing my pond critters were just following Mother Nature's rules. At least I know that Sparky is a girl. Don't know about the rest of them. Pond is now in a bad state of disarray. All I know is that if I were a girl fish... I would definitely keep my leg's crossed! hehehe All I see is murky water, water lily leaves shredded, floating anacharis and other rooted pond plants floating, bent reeds. Don't really care, just hope all are okay. Even little Shrimp was taking part... the little devil... not too terribly bent for bada bing... obviously. After 4 hours they were all swimming around as if there had been no party... just looking at me thinking "what are you looking at... we didn't do anything!".
<Hello Barbi! Goldfish spawning is indeed very vigorous. If the supposedly unwell fish is taking part in the "nuptials", then it's pretty reasonable to assume he's in OK health. Fish only tend to breed when they are healthy and happy. This is especially true with egg laying species.>
Shrimp is swimming okay, but isn't quite able to grasp a mouthful of food as everyone else is. It's as if his tail can't quite propel him up enough and he ends up with only a single pellet... sometimes even missing that! I found a website... and you have to enter the entire thing to have it come up. I can't send you a pix of Shrimp 'cause I don't own a digital camera... and if I did I don't know how to use my scanner... really techno-challenged here. But on this site you can see how his tail goes to the side. He is white, pink and orange, however, the only difference. On page 9 of this document is the picture:
www.nda.agric.za/docs/AAPS/Articles/Aqua/FishDiseasesandHealth/Koihusb.pdf
- whew!
<For some reason, this link doesn't work for me. I get the old "The page cannot be found" page.>
What do you think about his eating ability. They really aren't too fond of lettuce, or apples. Grapes... sometimes, but not always.
<In a pond, you have some latitude, because of algae and pondweed. So provided you have lots of these in the pond, don't worry too much about [a] the green side of their diet or [b] whether all the fish get enough to eat. Koi, like wild carp, will eat algae and pondweed when nothing "meaty" is on offer. It's good for them. So just make sure they have access to greens of some sort, but don't worry too much about precisely what they are.>
I'd appreciate anymore insight you may have about this, Neale... I feel as if I've been run over by a steam roller... just feel frustrated. Good thing I am a very persevering woman!!! Regards, Barbi
<Ah yes, the joy of keeping animals. You're obviously really concerned about Shrimp, and that's a good thing. But I can't really add anything useful to my analysis without actually seeing the patient. Maybe you can borrow someone's digital camera? In the meantime, see if you can hand feed him, or maybe divide up the food into two or more portions around the pond, so the fish split up. Shrimp will forage on the bottom, so scattering sinking food around the pond might help, by putting food where he can easily get some. The main thing is keep an eye on his condition, check he isn't losing weight, and just get a sense of whether he's basically happy or not. It sounds as if he's happy enough, giving he's spawning. Good luck! Neale.>

Re: Shrimp/eating pattern - 6/25/07
Neale... thanks again for your thoughts and time spent. I tried to sleep in this morning after a restless and fretfilled night but I couldn't. Just learned last night of a problem with my daughter's ankle (she is career USAF stationed at Travis in CA). We were in Tahoe skiing in March and she fractured her ankle. She was told yesterday that the bone isn't healing properly. She doesn't ask lots of questions (like her mom) so I will be on the computer trying to get answers. The military is fraught with inept medical people, and this is her second encounter with them. Good thing I am off for a few days, pending doctor's release... when I tripped at the pond.
I can concentrate on that dilemma.
<Hello Barbi. Too bad about your daughter. Hope she gets well soon. One of my uncles was a USAF colonel, a chaplain to be precise. Ever been to the Academy out in Colorado Springs? Quite the place. Really amazing church/chapel/synagogue hybrid building. Nice scenery too.>
I will attempt to hand feed Shrimp... when the others are off in some other direction... but my heart remains heavy for the little guy. Again, Neale, thank you so very much for the information you've given. It's been wonderful chatting. Barbi
<Persevere, and hope for the best. Keep observing. So long as he is feeding and maintains good condition, don't worry too much. Fancy goldfish are mutant "deformed" goldfish and people seem to like them that way... so maybe you've created a new breed! Cheers, Neale>

Re: Shrimp/eating pattern – 06/27/07
Neale... again -- can't thank you enough.
<Not a problem.>
As to the "USAF Academy"... no, never had the privilege; however, the commander of her base when she was in Florida wanted to recommend her for a commission and she refused. She refused the offer because she would have to redo boot camp and cut her hair while at the academy. The USAF is the only branch of the military where women don't have to cut their hair as long as they wear it up... off their neck/collar. As hers was then almost to her waist and naturally curly... a real "show stopper"... along with her emerald green eyes, she didn't want to do either of those.
<She sounds a babe as well as serving her country. You must be very proud.>
Anyway, back to Mr. Shrimp. No one was interested in watermelon this afternoon, but perhaps it was too hot. They were all (including Shrimp) rooting around on the bottom in and out of the anacharis (presumbedly for those eggs that Ms. Sparkle dropped yesterday a.m.) so I will try again tonight. It isn't that he doesn't want to eat his pellets...
he just can't seem to stay surfaced long enough to get a real mouthful. I'm not more concerned about propulsion for eating purposes than I am about his swimming abilities. That seems to be fine, despite the curve in his tail.
His behavior is otherwise right on the money!!
<Well, there's only so much that can be diagnosed without a picture or without seeing the fish "in the flesh". On the one hand, bad genes can cause problems other than deformities, and often such fish gradually fade away however good the care. Seen it more than once when breeding fish. On the other hand, provided overall health stays solid you can be fairly sure he's eating algae and other foods in the pond, so even if he only gets the scraps at dinner time, he's otherwise making up his calorie count someplace else.>
Neal... I do apologize for being so wordy and not sticking to the facts...
but you make it easy for me to stop obsessing about Shrimp.
<Heh, heh...>
I am getting far behind in my part-time home based business...'cause I am running out back to watch Shrimp at least for 15 minutes every waking hour -- one has to do something interesting and less stressful on their days off, right???
<Tell me about it. I spent Sunday carrying 25 kilo (~50 lb) bags of rock and sand from the garden centre to my house to redo an aquarium I just wasn't pleased with. Boy, talk about backache the next morning!>
As always, please accept my sincere appreciation for all your advice and help. Barbi
<Happy to help. Good luck, and keep us posted. Cheers, Neale>

Re: Shrimp/eating pattern – 06/29/07
> G'Day, Neal... Am on duty but just stopped home a bit to pick up some cookies I had in the freezer. I must confess... they are a legend at work.
> The neighbors still gawk when the truck is outside the house... you'd think they would have gotten accustomed to my "other vehicle" being big and red!!
<OK.>
> Back bothering you, eh... well... I hope the pain has subsided by now. A weekend warrior you are? Sooooooo, how would you like to have to wear turnout gear and other paraphernalia that weighs as much as you do... and then have to not only walk, but climb, crawl and perform other job related duties with it on. Not complaining, tho... but sometimes when I'm working it feels as if my legs are embedded in cement but I still have to keep going.
> Nice to be around the corner, though, so I can cruise past the house and look over everyone at least 3 times a day!! I may have told you this already... really tired this morning... lots of interruptions during the night... mostly because the police use the same radio frequency as we do and for some strange reason they had about 10 times the calls they usually do... and then sat on the radio talking about them. I guess they don't realize that we get to sleep at night unless we are on a call and not drive around eating, talking and laughing. I guess I will have to kick some butt today.
> Yeah... right... I'm made fun of when I try to be "macho". Those are the times when I long to be 5'10" and weigh about 180#. Well... not really...............
<Heh, heh.>
> Anyway... back to "our little guy/girl". Shrimp appeared to do much better when feeding last night. I finally figured out where he likes to "partake" of his food. He swims under the water lilies and bumps them with his nose and waits for the food to roll off. I know he's getting lots more pellets/treats than he was one week ago. No one wants to eat greens or fruit out of my hand yet... yucks... could it be my deodorant!!!???
> (smile). As always, Neale, thank you, thank you. I can feel some of the stress leaving my body each time I see Shrimp get more than a single pellet.
> I just pray he isn't in pain or suffering in any way. It doesn't appear so.
> I will definitely keep you posted. And again, a most sincere thank you for EVERYTHING... and watch that back! Have you ever used one of those "cold/heat packs" that you apply to various body parts that are aching?
> They have them at work and they say they work. Best Regards, Barbi
<I'm glad the fish makes you feel good. That's the idea of keeping them! Anyway, the question of whether or not fish feel pain is complex, but the evidence seems to be shifting towards the idea that they do, though perhaps not in quite the same way as "advanced" vertebrates. Be that as it may, animals generally adapt to disabilities remarkably quickly. They don't have a sense of what's optimal, and merely want to stay alive. You've probably seen those 3-legged cats on TV. Animals adapt and simply get on with living rather than worrying about whether they look different. So what I'm saying is that provided the fish is otherwise healthy and clearly acting normally, then you're probably much more bothered by things than he is. I hope this helps! Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Shrimp/eating pattern  6/30/07
Again, again and again, Neale... thank you so very much. Your words are very comforting... like a good dish of homemade pasta!!!
<Happy to help.>
Sorry about the analogy... but just one of the things that makes me feel good. Shrimp didn't seem to be really interested in food last night... or at least didn't make quite the effort to eat as he did tonight. This appears to be a yo-yo thing for him. Is that possible... or gets so hungry that he makes the extra propulsion effort to get grub?
<Possible. Or he may simply prefer some of the algae and stuff he's eating in the pond when you aren't around. So long as he isn't losing weight, don't worry too much.>
One new thing I noticed... ever since the frenzied spawning I witnessed the other day is that my pond smells a bit "fishy". Again... don't know if I just never noticed it before... or am being paranoid. I've held up handfuls of water and containers of the pond water up to my nose and don't smell it... however, upon entering the backyard seem to smell it. Everything tests good and normal (water quality)... and am wonder if maybe a partial water change is in order.
<Well, spawning shouldn't change the smell of the water. Any eggs and milt produced will be diluted to such a massive degree as to be practically undetectable. Water does smell though when allowed to "mature" naturally depending on things like algae and bacteria in the water. Blue-green algae for example has a very distinctive smell, somewhat musty. Water changes are never a bad idea though.>
I've never done that, but have an automatic fill valve that turns and adds water when the water gets to a designated level. I add a little "stress coat", to cut the chlorine... but have never done, say, a 10% water change. Do you think that is in order?
<I can't recommend adding "raw" water without dechlorinator. Too many fish get sick from the chlorine and chloramine. But before fussing too much with the water in the pond, check the nitrate and nitrite levels to see if they're safe. All things being equal, the natural cycle in a pond should purify the water to some degree, with rainwater diluting the rest.>
Or... just a thought... could it have been all those hormones being exuded in the water during spawning... just reaching here... need your expert input. Geez, Neale... it just hit me... your my only e-mail person... I tell everyone not to e-mail me 'cause I don't have the time to sit here... but I guess when it is important... I can.
<I think you're over-fussing a little here. Check the water quality, and look for obvious sources of ammonia like dead frogs, rotting vegetation, etc and clean those out instead. Ponds to benefit from that sort of maintenance rather more than water changes. There's even a good argument for stripping down small ponds every few years and giving them a thorough clean.>
When my best friend became a vet, I went out on farm calls with her... have delivered calves, kittens and helped her in surgery when my Guinea pig had a ruptured spleen. But.........she knows nothing about critters in the water. I think this is the beginning of a long education... with Koi. I researched Irish Wolfhounds for five years before I got one... perhaps I should have done the same with Koi. My experience with Aquatics has been solely with goldfish and bettas. Now I need to learn about the Jewels of Japan!!!
<Pond fish are generally very low maintenance, especially if the pond is well maintained. I've kept Corydoras in ponds over the summer, in a tiny pond with no filter and just plants. The results were amazing, the fish grew so fast, and within 24 hours of being brought indoors when autumn set in they spawned! Water quality in even a mediocre pond is simply so much better than an aquarium because of the sheer size of the thing, and the diversity of foods on offer far more healthy. It's really the ideal way to keep many fish.>
Appreciate hearing your thoughts about my sense of "fishiness". Apparently no one else's nose smells it. Am I daft??? By the way... what does it mean when someone calls you a "cracker"? Whether it is good or bad, please tell me. Thanks. Barbi
<A "cracker" is someone or something that is exceptionally good. So if I said about some girl I'd met at a party that "she's a cracker" that would typically mean I thought she was very pretty or had a fun personality. You could also say that something was "cracking", as in, "that was a cracking party last night". HOWEVER, "crackers" means something else, that someone or something is crazy, as in, "she's absolutely crackers", meaning "she's nuts". Finally, "cream crackered" is rhyming slang for "knackered", i.e., tired and worn out. A cream cracker, by the way, is a type of savoury biscuit had with cheese. Hope this helps! Neale.>