|
| |
Fish Recommendation for a reef,
grounding probe maint., Clown comp. 12/5/08
Second
question; Is it a problem if my grounding probe gets covered in algae?
<Mmm,
not really... or at least not much>
<And Neale has responded to your
FW queries... In future, please isolate/send your questions one topic/subject at
a time. Thank you, Bob Fenner>
Grounding Probe Info 4/23/08
Dear Crew,
I was doing a little research on grounding probes and came across this article
written by a Georgia Tech professor, and thought I'd share:
http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/RCM/RCM/Aquarium/GroundingProbes.html
Basically, he educates the reader on the difference
between voltage in the tank (not a problem) and current in the tank (a problem)
and concludes that the addition of a grounding probe more often than not causes
a current problem where none previously existed (the website also contains a
good discussion about GFI outlets). Although I don't know the author and can't
vouch for his wisdom, it seemed to make sense to me. This article was a real eye
opener for me--not because I was moments away from wasting $22 on a grounding
probe, but because every single catalog and every single e-tailer I see sells
and touts grounding probes.
<I do not... and have not... all these decades...>
I assume that there are cases in which they have some benefit, but I came away
thinking, gee, this is like "reef safe ich killer" and many of the other
products I see you guys poo-poo as worthless snake oil--it's amazing to me that
people can legally make tons of money off of hobbyist by selling stuff that
doesn't actually work or even causes harm.
Cheers,
Andy
<Agreed... and this is indeed a very fine piece... and the link to this
gentleman's tank project period: http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/RCM/RCM/MICHELSONAquarium.html
Thank you for sending this along. Will post/share. Bob Fenner>
Re: Grounding Probe Info... and the
meaning/liability for the term/label "reef safe"
Bob,
<Andy>
That guy's site is really interesting/insightful.
Because I've never used anything that claims to be "reef safe", I've
never had the opportunity to read the label or warranty (if there is
one) on "reef safe" medications as to who bears responsibility when a
hobbyist uses such a product and his/her reef dies (or maybe nothing
dies because it's just colored water?).
Something tells the manufacturer disclaims liability.
<I have said on occasion that I do wish I had the time and/or money to
hire someone in the legal biz to challenge (i.e. sue) the many folks who
make such disingenuous products... "If only...". BobF>
Re: Grounding Probe Info
Was that a subtle nudge?? ;-)
<... always>
Ah, we could spend many a keystroke discussing this topic. In some ways
I am surprised it has not happened. Lawyers tend to have more money than
the average Joe = bigger/more expensive tanks = bigger/more expensive
crashes from use of dubious products = higher $ damages.
The problem with your dream is that you need one of the following (i) a
lawyer who's been personally screwed and is willing to shoulder the
legal battle, (ii) a rich hobbyist willing to pay a lawyer by the hour
(not likely) or (iii) a pot at the end of the rainbow for a contingency
fee lawyer (i.e., a big enough class of plaintiffs who have been harmed
that a lawyer's 35-40% fee is big enough to take the case).
My guess is that the warning labels on these products make it clear that
"we cannot guarantee that nothing will die from this. Of course it is
best to treat in a separate hospital tank, and the hobbyist assumes the
risk of adverse effects if used in the display."
<Well put>
Every consumer product comes with a warranty of merchantability (i.e., a
warranty that the product does what it says it will do). Generally, a
manufacturer cannot disclaim such a warranty in a consumer transaction.
To pursue such a claim takes a lot of time and, if you hire a lawyer,
money. The court system is so expensive and time consuming these days
that it makes pursuing these claims difficult.
There is always the state's attorney general/consumer protection
division, but my experience is that regulators are loathe to take on
such matters unless there has been a significant financial harm.
<Mmm, our system of jurisprudence/litigation is the element of being a
U.S. citizen that I "like" best/worse about America. Cheers, BobF>
|
Grounding Probes - 4/22/07
Hi,
<Hello.>
I checked on WWM under 'electricity' and did not see information on
grounding probes.
<Using the Google search feature reveals many references to them, although there
are varying opinions of course. Bob doesn’t seem to be a fan.> <<Thank you
Alex... I am not in most "cases", arrangements... Better money/attention paid to
using GFCIs, polarization, better wiring period. RMF>>
I am having a difficult time on deciding whether I should use a grounding
probe. Searching the web, I find many sources saying grounding probes are a
must for aquariums. On the other hand we have the article on why not to use
them:
http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/RCM/RCM/Aquarium/GroundingProbes.html which
makes sense to me.
<This does make some good points. The part that I don’t agree with is the
amount of current they seem to think will be flowing through the ground and the
fish. While the induced voltage can build up to a pretty high level in the
tank, this is over time, and once grounded the amount of current flowing to keep
it grounded constantly will be negligible, unless there is an actual problem
with electrical components not being properly insulated. The argument for the
probe is that the infinitesimal amount of current that would flow to the ground
is not harmful, while to sensitive species, the high potential voltage that
builds up in an ungrounded tank can be. I think of it as background noise,
which does not bother some people, and drives others batty.>
For the record, I do use GFI's on all equipment.
<Excellent. Without GFI’s, there could be current associated with a probe, but
with the GFI, if there were an actual insulation breach, it would trip.>
I recently installed a controller (Lighthouse -
http://www.mcuresearch.com
<http://www.mcuresearch.com/> ). The
installation instructions start
off by saying make sure to use a grounding probe to insure accurate
probe readings (pH and ORP).
<Well there is your answer. Although they may not be necessary for every tank,
it sounds like you will be needing one to get your technology to
behave. Personally, I use them, ever since I measured the voltage (46 V!) and
watched the reaction of the fish when installing the probe the first time. They
“appeared” much calmer after the probe.>
I would like a definitive answer on whether grounding probes should be used or
not.
<This may always be a controversial topic.>
Thank you very much,
Jill.
<Welcome. Alex>
Grounding Probes - 4/24/07
Alex,
Thank you very much for your response. I hooked up the grounding probe. My
probe readouts did not change after the addition - that is fine.
<That's good. The readings could probably be affected for those tanks that had
a significant voltage built up. <<Mmm, voltage does not "build up". RMF>> After
initially grounding mine, it took a long time for the voltage to return after
removing the grounding probe. It is very much dependent on the equipment
installed, probably. I suspect my old lights were part of the problem.>
Hopefully our inhabitants are happier now.
<Maybe. Shouldn't hurt anyway.>
Thanks,
Jill and Aaron.
<Welcome, Alex> | |
|
.JPG)
