Freshwater Plant Problem
Gang:
Hi, and thanks for being there the couple of times a year I need you!
<Welcome>
I am experiencing a problem trying to grow (and even maintain) freshwater
plants in my two tanks. One is 120 gallon, the other a 10 gallon.
I get real nice plants from the pet store, put them in the tanks, and they
rarely grow at all. In fact, they usually end up getting algae all over
them.. the leaves start turning yellow and they die. Or, they just sort of lighten in
color, and "stay" there with no growth. I've tried all sorts of plants, and the
exact same thing keeps happening.
All my fish are doing GREAT.
120 gal tank: Ph 7.2, Nitrite: 0, Ammonia: 0: Lighting : 2 48" strips each
with 30 watt Penn Plax fluorescent lights.
<Mmm, the lighting is at least part of the problem... poor intensity, spectral mix>
10 gal tank: ph 7.2, nitrite: 0.1, ammonia: 0. Lighting: 2, 10w Coralife
compact fluorescent (output is actually like 40w I believe).
<Likely so>
I do not have a NITRATE test kit.
<Rarely a nutrient limiting factor>
Other pertinent info:
1) My tap water is whole-house filtered with charcoal and then softened over
beads recharged with salt. I use the tap water in the tank with virtually no
pretreating at all. In two years has never hurt my fish at all.
<Mmm, but maybe your plants... they don't like the excess sodium, and your water may well be mineral deficient... I would mix at least some (a few tens of percent) "outside" tap that hasn't been thus filtered>
2) All my AquaClear filters (2 Aq300s in the large tank, and 1 Aq200 in the
small) are running either Zeocarb mixture or straight carbon.
ALL have a small filter bag with crushed coral in it to keep the pH steady
(does a GREAT job!). The large tank also has an undergravel filter with
AquaClear powerheads attached to it for water movement.
<Mmm, many rooted plants do poorly with UG filtration>
The small tank has no
undergravel filter. The large tank also has a UV filter on it.
3) I rarely "feed" the plants except for an occasional "Planttab" near the
base.
So...from all of this, any idea why these plants won't grow? And what's with
the algae on the plants (and in the tank) on the small tank (the one with the
CF bulbs)??
Thanks again in advance for any help or direction you may offer.
Larry
<Easy to do... Please read over our Planted Tank subweb: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/AquariumGardenSubWebIndex.html
There are a bunch of issues... lighting, nutrients, filtration, substrate... for you to consider, address. Bob Fenner>

Help with a planted tank
Hey Crew,
I currently have a 75 g FW setup running for a couple of years. I've had some luck with the basic lowlight plants - Javas, swords - but a couple of snails I was told were plant safe devoured all of them while I was away for a week.  So now I've decided I want to try a more seriously planted tank. I have the lighting - 4x55w Jebo 48" - all ready. I want to know if it is worth adding fluorite to the existing substrate, which is the basic aquarium gravel (about 2" deep ). I probably need to add more substrate either way because I've had no luck keeping stems in the gravel. My question is do I need to remove the fish to add the fluorite, will it make a very noticeable difference, can it be avoided by using pond tabs?
< I would recommend fluorite. It comes in bags with lots of silt and clay so it needs to be washed very thoroughly. I little trick that I do is go down to the $.99 cent store and buy a plastic sieve. I then place scoops of fluorite in it a run water through it until it runs clear. You can spend a long time washing it in a 5 gallon bucket.>
Where can I get pond tabs as I haven't been able to find them at my local Loews or Home Depot.
< Try DrsFosterSmith.com.> 
Also, I've been told that its wise to soak the new plants in a dilute chlorine bleach solution before adding them to the tank. Is that true? How dilute?  How long and how long should I soak them or rinse them in freshwater afterwards?
< I know that this is supposed to disinfect the plants and prevent them from bringing in a new parasites to the aquarium. but I have found that a good rinse under running water will get rid of 90% the problems. Disinfecting them just weakens them.-Chuck> 

Tropical Freshwater Plants in small aquarium
Hi there,
Just recently I bought a 30 litre fish tank (I think that's about 10
gallons)
<Closer to eight... a little more than a quart in a litre... four quarts per U.S. gallon>
for my girlfriend as an early Christmas present as she has been
fascinated by fish and wanting a tank for a few years now, however
neither of us are particularly experienced with keeping tropical fish
and have been taking things slowly with setting up the aquarium.
<Good approach, attitude>
Approximately two weeks ago we set up the aquarium, dechlorinating the
water, cleaning the gravel, soaking the tank, etc, and left it running
for about a week before recently adding some live plants (two large
Anubias on drift wood, a banana lily, and an array of about ten other
aquarium cuttings from our local fish shop), and have since been running
the tank with these plants - and fortunately have had no problems with
algae or plant sickness (although with my limited knowledge I don't know
whether it takes longer than this for problems to show?).
<Generally, yes... a few weeks>
After some
adjusting ph is at 7 and has remained like that for half a week so far
(without any adjustments), and temperature is at 25*C.
<Okay>
Anyway our plan is to add a pair of guppies in a weeks time (which will
of been 3 weeks after initially starting the tank and 2 weeks after the
addition of plants) as a test to make sure they are okay with the tank
and also to start providing the plants with some fishy nutrients. Then
if all goes well with the guppies we will probably add some more fish
slowly each couple of days-weeks.
<Sounds good>
From the extensive reading that I have been doing on keeping tropical
fish over the past 6 months, most of the information I have found
suggests that with a 'large' crop of live freshwater aquatic plants
nitrate build-up is decreased greatly, which leads to less frequent
water changes and a higher "bio-capacity" chemical-wise for the tank.
<You are correct here>
So among other things I wanted to ask your experienced opinion on
whether this is accurate, and that with a healthy concentration of
plants that the population count of small fish can be furthered?
(Of
course this would not apply to larger fish as they wouldn't have the
swimming space).
<Also correct>
With this in mind, our hope is to have something similar to the following:
3 Guppies
5 Neon Tetras
a pair of other small friendly fish (other tetras/catfish/swordtails are
these friendly?])
<Sounds fine... perhaps consider a couple of small catfish... e.g. Corydoras species>
Alternatively we are entertaining the idea of a single angel fish
instead of some of the Neons and the other fish - but from what I have
read angels are aggressive and it would eat our other fish :S Are there
any types of 'small' angels or trop fish that look similar to angels
that wouldn't feast on the Tetras?
<None that are appropriate for your size system. Wait till you have a bit more experience, a much bigger tank>
We much prefer the smaller, brighter coloured fish so these are just
thoughts we are exercising.
<Good thoughts>
Additionally, I have been reading about CO2 systems for the plants, and
wanted to ask your opinion on whether or not the addition of CO2 would
be of much benefit to the plants that are already in the tank.
<Mmm, beneficial yes... and you'll be adding a bit of carbon dioxide through the fishes, foods... I would hold off on trying CO2 infusion at this point... maybe try an experimental, home-made infuser at a later date>
The tank
is well planted and any further growth is not desired as it would simply
mean we would have to remove the excess plants to make room for the
fishes to swim - but I am more concerned about keeping the plants
healthy in their current state. So far we have been giving them 10 hours
of light per day and they are looking great (if not lusher than they
were when we originally bought them).
Thanks for any help you can provide!
-Adam
<I'd add a complete fertilizer (see SeaChem's products here), and this, along with regular water changes and fish feeding will supply all essential plant nutrients. Bob Fenner>

Want some more inf. about live plants
Hello Bob/Sabrina:
This is Ahmed from Pakistan. Actually still I have some controversies in my mind that could I be able to keep some LIVE PLANTS in the tank based on UNDER GRAVEL FILTERS?
In the last mail Sabrina told me that PLANTS DO NOT LIKE A GREAT DEAL OF WATER CIRCULATION THROUGH THEIR ROOT SYSTEM AND YOU WOULD BE VERY LIMITED IN SELECTION OF PLANTS IF YOU INTEND TO KEEP THEM IN U/G FILTER BASED TANK.
<Yes. Best to "blind pot" rooted plants in systems with undergravel filtration... if you can't be persuaded to abandon the UG entirely. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwugfiltr.htm>
She had recommended java fern and java moss and other plants of that same species.
I have white silica sand in my aquarium and its thickness is almost 6 inches I mean 6 inches from the U/G filter plate.
<Ahmed... silica is about the worst choice for aquarium substrates. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/substraags.htm>
I wanna ask that:
1. What is the very best substrate for the live plants in which they can grow nicely? Can I grow live plants in WHITE SILICA SAND or should I include other substrate or soil with it?
<See the above and the links (in blue, above) to Related Articles and FAQs>
2. The thickness of gravel is almost 6 inches form the U/G filter plate can't I grow them in my tank? I think that there should not be any effect of water circulation on the roots of plants due to the thickness of the gravel.
<To an extent this is so>
3. Here in Pakistan a local fish dealer said me that I can grow them because of the thickness of gravel that will not let the circulation of water to damage the roots of the plants. He also said that Live Plants are necessary for the breeding of Angel fish. Is he right?
<Maybe the former, but not the latter. Most every commercial producer of Angelfishes does NOT use live plants... Most use bare tanks, a piece of slate, lead sheet, flower-pots for spawning media>
4. Can I keep other fishes i.e. Clown loach, Bala sharks, Rainbow sharks in a breeding tank of Angel fish or should I keep only a breeding pair of Angel?
<If there's room, these will all go in together... the Bala's will get very big with age>
5. Is there any sort of visible difference between male and female angel, I mean how can I differentiate between male and female angel for breeding purpose? here a local dealer said me that for breeding purpose I should raise 6 to 8 young angels and after some period they will make pair themselves. Is he right?
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwangelfishes.htm>
6. How should I start a breeding programme of angel fish? Lighting, Temperature, Food, Medications, pH etc..........!
I had tried so many times to grow live plants in my aquarium but unfortunately every time I failed and I have spend a lot of money on live plants but still I could not get reward from them. Now this time again I intend to pull out all of my plastic plants and wanna try again that's why I am very much careful and collecting information about them.
Thanks,
AHMED (KARACHI, PAKISTAN)  
<Keep studying my friend. Bob Fenner>

Lighting/CO2 and Platy question
Good afternoon WWM crew, I have a three part question that I'm hoping you can provide some guidance on. My first relates to lighting/CO2:  I've had my 30G tank for about 8 months now and have enjoyed it tremendously.  It is stocked with a number of plants like swords, stem plants (Cabomba, wisteria), etc.  Right now I have about 1 watt/gallon of light and I feel that my stem plants, in particular, are being effected more due to insufficient light.  Now I've read your website re lighting/CO2 etc and it was extremely helpful.  I would like to increase the light using full spectrum bulbs (Vita lite, etc per Mr. Fenner's articles) to about 3 watts/gallon.  Now my question, since an increase in light intensity gives you more photosynthesis during daytime hours and ultimately more CO2 consumption, do I have to inject CO2 into my system?
< Increased lighting will definitely increase the demands by the plants for nutrients like CO2.>
Would more frequent water changes help?
< The trace minerals found in tap water would need to be replenished as the plants use them up.>
I would love to be able to plant all kinds of plants even plants that require bright light, but I don't want to become a chemist and have to go nuts over the amount of CO2 needed, how it affects my pH, etc, etc.  Is there an alternative?
< Plants will only grow as well as the nutrients around them are made available. Stem plants in particular seem to need more CO2 then others. There are still many beautiful tank setups with out CO2. I would recommend that you set up your tank the way you want. Some plants may flourish while others take off. Try different ones and see what works in your tank.>
My second question:  I've read articles regarding the use of carbon instead of CO2 (Excel Carbon was the brand name).  Would this make my life easier?
< Carbon in general does not increase the CO2 content of the water. I am not familiar with this product. There is a carbon block in which a current is run through and it generates CO2 . Look for it at Belowwater.com under products.>
My final question is regarding my female platy.  I've had her for about 5 months and she has given birth to two fry (or at least 2 I've been able to save) that have grown to be healthy fish.  The last few days she's been acting really strange.  She has been swimming erratically, kind of like something spooked her, it's almost spastic.  She is not swimming erratically 100% of the time just every few minutes she has one of these "fits".  There are no signs of discoloration, parasites, bloat, ich, velvet, etc -she looks completely normal! My pH is about 7.2, nitrites zero, nitrates about 10 ppm.  The temp is around 79 degrees.  I also add some aquarium salt at every water change, which is weekly.  She still feeds a bit, but spends most of her "free" time hiding and has become unsocial.  I'm afraid that she's getting old or has come down with some disease.  I have 1 other male and female platy (also 1F platy that is only 1/2 inch long), 2M and 2F guppies (1F guppy that is 1/2 long-no color yet), 4 Neons, 3 cherry barbs, 1 Cory catfish and (I think) 1 Otocinclus.  Do you know what this is?  How to treat? Thanks and happy holidays, Chris
< She may have come down with a internal bacterial infection. Try and treat her with Metronidazole.-Chuck>

Planted tank, nutrient-growth
Hello
<Hi there Lukas>
I was reading the article by Alesia Benedict on her planted discus tanks.  I
just wanted to say that that it gave me a idea for a future tank set up.
But it also got me thinking about my tank now.  I have had some
moderate success with plants but not the greatest.  I recently purchased 3
bunches of Bacopa plants.  They looked really nice in the store but after
about 3 weeks in my tank they don't look so good any more.  I was wondering
if you could suggest some things for me  to try with this plant.
  And if you
could give me a couple of suggestions on some plants to place in the tank
that are relatively easy to take care of.  I have a 90 gallon tank with,
4 clown loaches,
5 golden barbs,
7 cherry barbs,
a rope fish,
4 danios,
about 5 Neons, I believe that the rope fish has been having snacks.
1 common Pleco,
2 glass cats
1 platy.
about 5 ghost shrimp
and 2 rams horn snails
<Quite a mix!>
The clown loaches are still little guys no bigger then about 1 and a half
inches.
The loaches are what I want the tank to be for in the future.  once the
other fish have gone to the next big tank in the sky.
The tank is filtered by a Fluval 403 canister filter, with mechanical media,
charcoal and sponge.
I have a bubbler on the back wall and temp at 79 degrees all the time.
Water changes are done every other week  with 16 gallons per change, with a
minor addition of aquarium salt.  PH is steady at 7.5.
<Ahh... could well be the salt>
I also have in the tank what I have been told are crypts,  I haven't been
able to locate a pic on the net of the plant I have in there.  But they are
doing sort of ok.  They have been turning a little brown lately but seem to
be sprouting new leaves.
<Mmm, do you purposely fertilize your plants? What sort and age of lighting?>
Would you be able to give me a idea as to what I could place in there for,
plants and not have them melt away or get eaten to death by the barbs.
Thank you
Lukas
<Sounds to me like you may have a nutrient deficiency going here... the "slow boat to China" approach of having fish fertilizer supply your plants will work... but I would do away with the salt additions. Bob Fenner>

Question about freshwater plant
I have a small five, gallon tank and decided to use live plants.  No one told me anything about this but do I remove the lead weights from the plants?  I have been putting them in especially on the wispier plants like my carobabas and hornwort bunches because my Pictus catfish, in his/her daily activities, tends to dislodge them with his/her tail currents seemingly before they can establish a root system.  I just have a gravel substrate; no soil or anything.  Does this affect the plants' ability to root in?
< Remove the weights and rinse the plants very well in cool water to dislodge any loose or decaying matter. Allow the plants to float at the surface for a few days next to the light fixture. Watch for any roots that may be developing on the plants. You will need to amend your gravel with and iron rich substrate such as Fluorite or laterite. Take the end of the plant with new roots and strip off any leaves that may have developed below the new root(s). Plant the stem of the plant until the top of the root is buried. With good light and a little luck you should soon see new shoots growing from the plant in a week or so. Keep the light on between 8 and 12 hours a day. If algae becomes a problem then cut back on the light and try an algae eating fish.-Chuck>
Sarah

Plants in Pakistan - 10/18/2004
Hi Bob:
<Actually, this is Sabrina, plant-and-shrimp geek at your service.>
This is Ahmed from Pakistan.
<Ahh, quite some distance from my home in sunny California, USA!  Nice to semi-meet you.>
I have 5 feet long tank and I have some fresh water tropical fishes like clown loach, bala shark, angels...
<Sounds great.  I do wish to warn you that some tropicals - especially vegetarian Loricariids - will eat plants.>
Actually Bob,
<Still Sabrina, hope you don't mind too terribly.>
I have tried so many times to grow some real plants in my water filled glass tank but I did not get success.
<It is in fact a very difficult endeavor, in some cases.  You will find success; do not worry.>
Now I intend to try again. Sir please would you give me some basic information to how to grow live plants in my aquarium.
<If you read through some/all of the articles listed here, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/AquariumGardenSubWebIndex.html , you will find a great deal of information.  I fear there is simply far more information to pack into a single email - lighting, filtration, CO2, fertilization....>
Also can I keep live plants in tank based on under gravel filtration.
<Well, yeah, but you may find yourself very limited - plants do not like a great deal of circulation of cold water through their root systems; it tends to make them grow very poorly or not at all.  If you wish to try planting a tank with an undergravel filtration system, I would recommend that you look into plants like Anubias species, Microsorium pteropus (java fern), and Vesicularia dubyana (java moss), as these will all grow very well if you root them on bogwood/driftwood, or even porous rock.  They grow better in this manner than in the substrate.  Just tie 'em on to the rock or wood with an inert thread (fishing line, cotton thread, whatever), and they'll root over time.  This can create some stunning and beautiful displays.  These are also very low-light plants and do not require any "special" or "fancy" high-tech lighting systems; plain fluorescent lighting will be fine for them.  You might also find floating plants attractive - Ceratopteris species (Watersprite), Pistia stratiotes (water lettuce), and Riccia fluitans all make a very pretty display, left floating at the top of the tank.  You may even find them attractive enough that you might lower the water level to be better able to see your above- and below-water garden.  Just some ideas to start you out - and please do check the articles in that link; there's a LOT of information out there.
Thanks.
<You're quite welcome, Ahmed; I think you'll have a lot of fun with this aquatic endeavor.  Wishing you well,  -Sabrina

Planted Tank Differences
Bob,
<Chris>
I had not heard from you.  I realize that you are busy and probably get bombarded with hundreds of e-mail, but I wanted to resend this in case it had gotten lost before you had a chance to reply.
<Have a couple dozen friends here that help with queries, but have been out of town for several days (to Ecuador mainland and Galapagos)>
Thanks in Advance!
Chris J. Rogers
>>> Chris Rogers 07/20/04 10:14AM >>>
Bob,
I have been heavy into keeping freshwater aquariums for a few years now.  In the past they have always been non-planted tanks.  I just decided to try my hand at a planted tank.  I have done a good bit of research on line over the past few weeks as I have time.  I just ordered the following 75G set-up:
75G AGA standard tank
Modern Series Stand and canopy
Glass top
2x65W Corallife Compact Fluorescent fixture w/6700K plant bulbs with timer set for ~12 hours of lighting
1 Rena Filstar xP3 with filter pad media, the standard resin/carbon that comes with it, and ceramic rings
I'm planning on getting two of the new Stealth 200W heaters and a digital thermometer for monitoring temp.
I'm going to try to go w/out CO2 if possible, but I may set-up one or two of the 2L yeast CO2 reactors that I have seen on this site and others.
<Yes, worth experimenting... you can see almost immediate positive results with carbon dioxide augmentation>
I have ordered 5 bags of the Eco-Complete planted substrate...enough?
<We'll see... you'll likely want a good two inches plus base... if this does it, so be it>
I already have test kits for pH, Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, KH....any others needed?
<Maybe phosphate... you can wait on this for now>
Stocking plan:
Mainly various Rainbow fish
Would like Clown Loaches, but have heard they are not good with plants, so may forgo
One elephant nose (already in another tank, but would like to move him to this one)
Various algae eaters (recommendations here?  I have seem mostly SAE's as the preferred choice here)
Any other recommendations?
<I would go, stick with this choice (Crossocheilus) for now... there are some homalopterids, smaller loricariids to consider going forward>
First, does this sound reasonable to you?
<Yes>
  It looks like Flourish seems to be the consensus for the best fertilizer,
<A very fine product>
and I have seen mixed reviews on the liquid carbon additives (have read that Weiss' Natural Aquarium Vital is Snake Oil, but the SeaChem product may be O.K.)...your thoughts here?  Some questions for transitioning from non-planted to planted:
<It's obvious you have a good mind and skills in such plans. All sounds good thus far>
- Do you still vacuum the substrate during water changes or just let the plants use the refuse?
<I would only vacuum the areas where there were no rooted plants>
- I use a small amount of Freshwater salt (~1tsp./5 gal.) for my non-planted tanks.  Is this safe/recommended for planted tanks as well?
<Should be. There are few salt-sensitive plants that are offered in the trade, and most folks tap/source water has at least this amount of salts in it already>
- Is tap water conditioned with Stress Coat O.K. for the planted tanks (has been so far with my non-planted, and for some weird reason Stress Coat seemed to work better for me than Prime)
<Yes... even straight out of the tap is fine if only doing ten percent or so changes (I don't generally use water conditioners myself). If your water is "anomalous" (has negative content initially), storing, aerating it for a few days, a week ahead of use is a good/better idea>
- Are the fish stocking rules any different for planted aquariums?
<Not too much... of course you want to be careful to exclude, limit the amount of outright herbivorous animals... and to under-crowd...>
Any other advice you want to offer would be quite welcome!
Thank You So Much for Your Time!!!
Chris J. Rogers
<Mmm, definitely to encourage you to peruse, perhaps join The Aquatic Gardeners Association: http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/
Very worthwhile group (even if some members are a bit "cranky"). Bob Fenner

Questions On Plants - 04/14/2004
Greetings to whomever finds this email!
<And greetings to you, too!  Sabrina here.>
I'll start off with the quickest question.  What are Cory catfish sensitive to?   
<Well....  the short answer is "lots of stuff".  They seem to do quite poorly with any salt in the tank, in my experience; and like any other scaleless fish, many medications should be used with great caution, or not at all.  They are essentially rather durable fish, for the most part, though.>
In the last week I have lost 3 of my Corys which have been in the tank for 6 months now.  They look healthy, fat stomachs, not zipping to the surface for air ever that I have seen.   The only change is the pH has risen to about 7.5, due to running out of CO2 (6.5 is the normal pH of the tank when CO2 is running).  Are Corys that sensitive to pH swing?  
<Oh yes, most certainly - as are many/most fish.>
I know 1 pH is a lot, it probably happened quickly due to the cause of it.  All the other fish look fine though., 3 true SAE, about 20 Otos, and various schools of tetras.  I would of expected to see more dead Otos from the pH spike rather then Corys, I have read Corys are quite sturdy fish.
<They are, and I'm quite impressed that your Otos fared the pH jump so well.  I would not at all doubt that this might be the cause of the Corys' deaths, though.>
The 2nd question is regarding my substrate.  The substrate consists of about 1" of Greensand (should of researched this better, it has some nice properties, other then the ridiculous buffering capacity it has)
<I am not familiar with Greensand....  I'm assuming it's either a limestone or aragonite?>
Topped with about 3" of blasting gravel (pretty fine).  For the first month or so, most plants I put in the tank, deteriorated within a week and died.  After a month of weekly water changes, it seems I had leeched out the bulk of what was in the greensand causing the high pH and hard water, and plants started to do quite well.
<I would still be suspicious of this stuff.  Definitely look into what it is composed of.>
In your plant section, it is recommended to use 3-4" of substrate.  While in the DSB readings, it is very bad to use 2-3", and 4" should be a minimum depth of the substrate.
<Mm, the big difference that we have here is that the whole DSB topic is saltwater-oriented....  You will most likely not achieve a large anaerobic space in a freshwater tank with conventional substrates.  Though, I must say, I don't know about this Greensand.>
I understand that roots help keep the substrate aerobic.  
<Yes.>
There is much less water flow in a planted tank as well.  
<Most certainly.>
One of the big things in a DSB is heavy random current in the water column, to keep things from settling into the DSB.  
<And again, this is considering a reef tank.  The DSB concept really does not apply.>
In a planted tank, 10-20x flow of the tank is a bit much for the plants, or am I wrong there?   
<Oh, no, you are *quite* correct.  That much flow would be quite a bit too much for planty success, I believe.>
At the moment I am only turning my tank over 4x an hour, which is low.  In fact I think I will go move my magnum onto that tank tonight.
<Canister filters are definitely my #1 choice for a plant tank.>
What about the spaces of the tank that are not very heavily planted?  Am I harboring bad things there?  Since there are no roots to dig through those parts (me SAE's decided they loved to eat Glosso), as I have no foreground plants at the moment.  
<Just treat these unplanted areas like you would an unplanted tank - when you do water changes, siphon and vacuum the substrate there.>
Also areas like under my driftwood, and rocks (though most rocks go to the glass bottom with gravel around them not under).
<Just angle your gravel vacuum under them when you clean.  Once in a while you may wish to lift the item(s) to clean under them.  Likely this is not necessary with the rocks that go all the way to the bottom.>
The concepts behind a planted tanks substrate and a DSB in a reef seem very different.  
<Not seem - they *are* different, very much so.>
I am a little confused on how this is so.   You wouldn't really want a DSB to remove nitrates from a planted tank, but it needs to be deep enough for the plants to thrive as well.
<Even with six or eight inches of substrate in a planted tank, I don't think you'd even come close to the denitrification of a reef's DSB.  The DSB in a reef tank is usually made with sugar-fine "oolitic" sand - seems almost more of a mud than a sand, it's so fine.  The larger the grain size, the deeper the substrate must be to achieve that anaerobic space.  Add to that the fact that your plants' roots are probably all throughout your substrate, even all the way to the bottom of the tank, and your substrate can now be considered quite aerated.  Very, very different idea from a reef tank's DSB.>
Lastly, do you know of a resource to find out if a plant is a long night or short night flowerer?  
<Try here:  http://www.tropica.com/default.asp  or here:  http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/ for starters.  Not sure if you'll find what you're looking for, but you may find links for more information to help you find what you want.>
I have a very large red lotus type plant in my tank as a center piece (often if I get lazy on maintenance its leaves completely cover the surface of the 48x18" tank).  I would like to flower this plant, and create some bulbs to sell and give away, but no plant in my tank has flowered yet for some reason, I would guess because the tank gets to much light at night.  It has sent out 1 runner, in 5 months...which is more then I had expected from this type of plant.
<Sounds like fun!>
Thanks as always, Mark
<Wishing you and your plants well,  -Sabrina>

Questions On Plants - II - 04/14/2004 
Here is what greensand is: 
"Garden-Ville Texas Greensand is a naturally occurring mineral called glauconite (hydrated silicon of iron and potassium). A rich source of iron (more than 13% by weight) and other minerals, Garden-Ville Texas Greensand has been recognized for more than a century as an excellent soil conditioner for lawn and garden. Dry and spread- able. 
Suggested Application Rate: 
As a soil conditioner, 10-20 pounds per 1,000 square feet tilled into the soil, or broadcast over lawns. 
For potting mixes, blend in 5-10 pounds per cubic yard. 
In containers, use 2 to 3 tablespoons per gallon of soil." 
The plants seem to love it after a 1 month break in period... Seems I used a bit much, there's a 1/2 - 1" layer under all my gravel...Oh well, its working for now. 
<I can't find a whole lot of info on using this in an aquarium, and what I can find ranges from comments on it being great stuff to comments about it destroying tanks - I really don't have enough info to go off to make my own comments/opinions about it - at this point, I'm quite sure you're more educated on it than I am. Thank you for the information; this is something I will enjoy looking into.> 
I am confused as to the difference of a DSB in a reef aquarium and a deep gravel bed in a fresh water. I understand the nitrification piece, but I do have my concerns of sulfur buildup, as past neglect of a past cichlid tank killed all my fish when disturbing the gravel... 
<Oh my, yes - conditions like this must be avoided by regularly vacuuming the substrate, or (just as you experienced) hydrogen sulfide will build up, and when the substrate is disturbed, this will be released - dropping your pH, and, IIRC, decreasing the O2 in the tank - which most certainly will kill your livestock. Any areas of substrate that are not planted must be vacuumed, as the plants will take up nutrients where they are, but not the "dead" unplanted areas of the substrate. If this is not done, you'll see the same happen as happened with your cichlids. The most significant difference with the deep substrate of a planted tank and a DSB in a reef tank are the plants - the plants which keep the substrate aerated, loose, and which absorb nutrients which might otherwise decay and foul the tank. In a planted tank, the nitrates are not an issue, because the plants will take care of that for us. As gunk (mostly organic) builds up in the substrate, the plants use it as food. Without the plants, the gunk must be removed, by vacuuming the substrate, lest we have that hydrogen sulfide issue as above. In a reef's DSB, the substrate is to remain essentially undisturbed, aside from stirring the top inch or so from time to time. There is a very tremendous amount of life in a reef, including (or especially?) in the sand. There are plenty of animals - worms, tiny crustaceans, and much, much more - that use nutrients in the DSB and so forth, plus, you've got the anaerobic lower depths of the sand bed, which is pretty much absent in a planted tank.... So, basically, the depth of a DSB, relative to the grain size, is what gets the denitrification goin' in a reef tank, and in a plant tank, the plants are our tool for the same.> 
My plan is to just never touch the gravel in the tank, so far so good... 
<Uh, I would definitely stop hoping and start vacuuming those unplanted areas - lest you have the same issue as brought down your cichlids.> 
tank has been setup for 8 months now. Alk is 2.8KH (1 meq/l) and pH is about 6.6, 0 ammonia, 20+ nitrates (luckily there is little algae growth YAY plants!) 
<Yay, plants! indeed, but - you shouldn't be able to see over 20ppm nitrate in a plant tank, the plants should be eating it as fast as it's being produced - unless they are lacking in other necessary nutrients, or if you have a too-high bioload, or if (gulp) you have too much organic material in those dead spots, decaying and rotting away, and waiting for an unhappy accident to do the same as did to your cichlid tank. I would start vacuuming and see if that reduces your nitrate issue.> 
Does the KH sound a bit to low? I'd like to raise it to about 4.. 
<Not necessarily. Depending upon where you wish to keep your pH, and what fish are in question, it may be just fine. If you choose to raise it, you may wish to use something simple like a filter sleeve full of crushed coral or aragonite to buffer the water some.> 
Thanks again! Mark 
<You bet! If you want more clarification on DSBs, check this out: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/deepsandbeds.htm  and freshwater substrates: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsubstrates.htm . Feel free to write in again if you have further questions. Wishing you well, -Sabrina>

Source of Robert Gasser's Leiden tank articles
Bob (or whoever is answering today)
I just noticed this:  
Where can I find the entire 3 part article that appeared in an aquarium magazine years ago entitled "The Leiden Aquarium"?
Thanks, Ron Scott
<Do you know which magazine this series occurred in? The larger (college) and municipal libraries often carry bound volumes of these periodicals... There were many such articles in the hobby press in the eighties and nineties... Bob Fenner>
in this link at your site:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/litsearchfaqs.htm
The articles Ron was referring to was one of the most influential articles in forming "my" own methods.  Have used them ever since and am now relearning them for saltwater now that I know about macros and marine plants.  Four articles all by Robert Gasser appeared in 1979 in Freshwater and marine aquariums.  The first had a title something like the old (and possibly new) aquarium keeping methods.  the other three were simply the Leiden aquarium parts 1, 2, 3.  Just this week I  ordered reprints from FAMA and they cost $2.00 each.  Indexes are available at the Freshwater and Marine aquariums web site to locate out the specific issues.
<Thank you for this. Will post near the above citation. Bob Fenner>

New tank - plants?
I  was think about putting live plants in my tank what do I need to know about plants ?
<Well, there's a great deal more info than I can relay in a simple email.  You can find a tremendous amount of knowledge in the articles and FAQs about planted aquaria in WWM:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/AquariumGardenSubWebIndex.html .  There are also quite a number of good books available that will help you on your way.  -Sabrina>

Going Planted; Yo-Yo Loach 
Hello, 
<Hi> 
I have a 46 gallon community tank with Cardinal Tetras, Zebra Danios, Cory Cats, a Yo-Yo Loach, a Gourami, and pair of Kribensis. The tank has been established for about a year, and I'm now transitioning my tank to a planted tank. I have purchased new lights that holds 3-36" 30 watt bulbs. I have also purchased a Hagan fermentation style CO2 kit. Does my lighting sound adequate? 
<That really depends on what plants you want to keep; with your lighting, I'd stay away from plants that have high light requirements. There are gobs and gobs of plants you can play with for this setup.> 
I'm also curious if the Hagan will inject enough CO2 into the tank. 
<This depends on how heavily you wish to plant the tank; you might want a second such system, or a DIY CO2 generator in addition to the one Hagen generator.> 
I'm a little torn on what kind of fertilizer I should use (liquid/solid). Any suggestions that may help? 
<Well, to be honest, I use both. I'd recommend liquid fertilizers regularly, and any particularly picky plants, give a fertilizer plug.> 
One of my Danios is much larger than the others in the chest area (for lack of the appropriate term). It almost seems to be swollen. Do Danios swell during reproduction, 
<Females will get rather plump, so yes.> 
...or does my fish likely have some kind of disease? 
<Without seeing the fish, there's no real way I could tell you; but if the fish is otherwise acting/looking/eating well, I'd wager it's just a robust female.> 
Ammonia and nitrites are at 0, nitrates are acceptable, and pH is 7.4. 
<All good, though the cardinal tetras would appreciate a lower pH, but if you're planning on CO2 injection, that should help.> 
One more thing - have you heard of yo-yo loaches being aggressive. He seems to be the bully of the tank, and seems to pick on weaker fish. 
<Certainly sounds like a yo-yo loach! They do tend to be a little boisterous as they grow; not aggressive so much as insanely hyper-active.> 
Over the past year, I've had some fish die and look mangled. I'm not sure if they died for other reasons, and the scavengers started working on them, or if the loach had something to do with it. 
<I would certainly bet the first idea is the likeliest, though I'm sure the loach probably does cause the other fish some stress. Loaches do better in groups, so he's probably just making up for that by playing with the other fish instead - much to the other fishes' displeasure, I'm sure. If you like loaches but want something a little more laid back, consider Botia striata; they stay a bit smaller and are a little less, uh, annoying, to other fish - and on top of that, they're quite attractive.> 
The Kribs are a relatively new addition, so I can't blame them. All other fish are extremely docile. 
<Though I doubt the loach outright killed anyone, he might've stressed 'em to the point of illness/weakness, and eventually death, but that's only one possibility. If you really think he's a danger to any of the other fish, it might be a good idea to remove him. Otherwise, you *might* try adding a couple more, see if they share their attentions with one another, or if they still harass the other fish; that might be a touch risky, though.> 
Thanks for your help. 
<Hope all goes well, and that you enjoy the world of plantiness! -Sabrina> 
Jeremy Lane 

Plants not doing well
I have a 46 gallon bow front.  I have a planted aquarium that is not doing so well.  I have enough light.  
<'Enough' depends on what kind of plants you're trying to keep, and how much/what kind of lighting you're using; some plants require extremely intense light, some require extremely low-light conditions.  We can probably help more if you tell us what kind/how much lighting you've got, and what kind of plants you're trying to grow.>
Is a temp of 80 degrees too high for plants?
<Not at all.  I keep my plant tank at 80-82 degrees.  What kind of filtration are you using?  Do you use any aquarium fertilizers?  CO2?  What kind of fish?  What kind of substrate?  Water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH)?  A lot of questions, I know, but there are a lot of factors that affect plants.  I can help you a lot more if you let us know more about your system.  Wishing you well,  -Sabrina>
Cheryl

Using 100% RO water
HI Bob,
<Hello>
I was hoping you can give me a definitive answer to this question as it seems to be elusive. I want to use 100% RO water for my plant tank due to my tap water. Will it be ok for my tank?
<Not really. Turns out aquatic plants need "some" (variable by species) of a mix of the minerals the reverse osmosis process removes almost entirely>
Seachem makes a product called Equilibrium which reconstitutes the RO water. The only thing missing is something to raise KH. This can be done with baking soda. The other option I guess is the home brew of chemicals to bring back RO water.
<This can work, as can (in most cases) just blending "some" tapwater back in with the RO>
If I go with one of these routes, can I use this water without any adverse effect to my plants, or will I still be missing some trace elements that my harm the plants. I really appreciate the help.
<Likely only missing essential nutrients (N, P, K) as time goes by... that is, something (what is it with the word "some" this AM?) will become rate-limiting as time goes by... hence the call for regular water changes, augmentation, fish feeding. Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Ken

Aquarium Plant Issues
>Hi, gang...
>>Greetings, Marina here.
>I have a 130-gal freshwater tank with an assortment of various size and type livebearers and egg layers. I recently started substituting live plants for my artificial ones and am having problems with them. They are:
1) Anacharis: Can't seem to keep it anchored! I have put them in bunches in round rockwool plugs and small 2" plastic pots, (like you'd get the plants pre-planted in the LFS) pushed down into about 2" of river rock substrate. On a daily basis I keep fishing strands of floating anacharis out of the tank.
>>Ah, you have discovered what this stuff seems to be designed to do.  I know of no one, outside of those using greenhouses and even THEN this stuff tends to fall apart, who doesn't have this problem.  Anacharis doesn't root, it floats, not an easy plant to deal with as it tends to really dirty things up.
>2) Being eaten. I suspect some of my swordtails and/or mollies are picking at these plants as well as my Amazon sword, which is slowly shredding... leaf by leaf. I am having similar problems with a couple of other plant species.
>>Yes, they'll nibble, but if you have sufficient lighting and nutrients available the plants should outgrow the nibblers attempts.
>I give the tank about 10+ hours of light daily (fluorescent, 2 30W Penn-Plax Aquari-Lux bulbs).
>>Insufficient photoperiod (tropical plants need tropical daylight hours, 12-14), and insufficient intensity is my suspicion.  I would actually like to see four 40W bulbs over that tank, *minimum*.  The Aquari-Lux bulbs are for our preferences only, they do not provide anything near the spectrum needed for plants.  What you want to avoid is anything with too large a peak in the red end of the spectrum (Gro-lites).  I think you'll have much better luck going with a mix of Vita-lites and daylight (do not go with "warm daylight") shop lights.  Remember, with fluorescent lighting the intensity drops dramatically the further from the bulb the plants get, so if you can create a higher area (using PVC glued together, then silicone wood or gravel/rocks over for aesthetics) and plant them there they'll appreciate it.  Also, I'll suggest one VERY good book to you, "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium", by Diana Walstad.  EVERYONE I know who has set up systems using her methods has amazing success.
>I have placed a "plant tab" vitamin in the bottom of each 2" plastic pot.
>>Good, but without sufficient light, the plant cannot utilize the nutrients and they'll simply go towards adding nutrients to the system.
>I have even made the rockwool plugs more tightly closed by putting a small rubber band around them.
>>Closing them tightly won't add weight, lead wraps or stones will.
>My water (78 degrees consistently) is rather acid at the moment, but I'm slowly bringing that up with some crushed coral in a bag in my Aquaclear filter.
>>I'm not a big advocate of playing around with pH.  If it's not lower than 6.5, I'd leave it be.
>Ammonia is 0.
>>Nitrites?  Nitrates?
>Quite  a bit of water movement, with 2 Aquaclear 300s and a UGF with 2 powerheads.
>>It seems so, but for 130 gallons this is not much.  The UGF (which, by the way, plants do NOT like) should have four to six powerheads running it, or air (don't mix air and pHs = uneven flow = poor function of UG filter).  Consider a good canister filter, I really like Fluvals (a 403 would be great on your system) and Eheims.  Set the spray bar so it causes good turbulence at the water's surface.  The surface is the ONLY place where the O2/CO2 interchange takes place.  Having the pHs causing turbulence is helpful, too.
>Other than maybe get rid of my swordtails and mollies, what else can I do to avoid going back to plastic plants?? Thanks! - Larry
>>Please see above, and if at all possible get that book!  It's fairly priced at www.amazon.com (that's where I purchased it from, but I don't recollect the price).  Best of luck, and keep those livebearers!  Marina
Larry

Re: new 72-gallon tank setup
Dear Crew at WetWebMedia,
My name is Paul and I'm writing you from Toronto, Canada.  
<Greetings Paul, Ronni answering your questions from Kalispell, Montana>
I love your site, with very useful and easy to understand articles.  I have been an aquatic hobbyist for around 10 years now (on and off).  I have been able to keep tropical fishes successfully but never without any luck trying to grow live plants, and with many available useful information on the site, I would like to try growing live plants again.  I currently don't have any tanks running.
<Thank you very much for the kind words!>
I'm planning to go buy and setup a 72 gallon tank - I figure that a tank of this size should keep things pretty constant.  
<These are very pretty tanks, I have one myself.>
I was planning to use organic soil as the base of my aquarium, then using a mixture of gravel + fluorite as my substrate (80% gravel + 20% fluorite). Would you recommend such base setup?  
<A lot of people use a substrate like this with great results.>
I'm also getting an Eheim filter - 2215 included with my tank.  Can you recommend as to what kind of wattage/lightings, plants that are easy to grow that should I get?
<For most plants, the higher the lighting, the better they will do. Some species will do great in low light situations (I have a batch of Hornwort that is growing like weeds and the tank only have about 15w on it) others need very high lighting. Do some checking at http://www.thekrib.com/ and http://www.aquabotanic.com/ These are both great sites for information on plants. Also, if you haven’t already, read through http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/AquariumGardenSubWebIndex.html There is a ton of info there.>
Do I need to add any additional plant nutrients?  
<For some plants yes, for others no. It depends on what you have.>
I also read many sites about mixing yeast with sugar and water in a pop bottle to produce co2 and using an air aeration to get the co2 in the tank but I read that the co2 would just dissolved in the water without the plants absorbing any of the co2 produced.  Is this correct?  
<I’ve never used Co2 myself but a lot of people do use the yeast method with good results so I don’t think there is no benefit to the plants.>
At first, I'm only gonna run the tank without any fish for a couple of weeks.  After a few weeks, maybe add a couple of Otos to take care of any algae problem that I may encounter.  Future additions: rasboras, Gouramis, rainbows and maybe cardinal tetras.  Any other compatible mates that you would recommend?
<You could do a lot of different species in there. Some of the less aggressive Barbs, some other Tetras, etc.>
I appreciate your time to read/answer my email. Thanks. Paul
<You're welcome! Ronni>

Re: It's a jungle in there!
Hi Ronni,
thanks a lot for your informative email- I read, and re-read that webpage. But I have one more question about plants listed there to help out with algae control - mainly the ones called "Salvinia duckweed, Ceratopteris (is that the thalictroides subtype) and Vallisneria.  The duckweed is suppose to be free floating, I guess on top of tank and grows fast- but doesn't that take light AWAY from my plants- esp. Bacopa and hygro that seem to need the light? That part doesn't make sense to me. Am I wrong about this?
<Yes, if it’s allowed to spread over the top of the tank (and there’s no good way to prevent this because it grows fast!) it will take away some of the light for your other plants.>
Second, the Ceratopteris- if it is the thalictroides one, on TROPICA it says that needs medium to very high light- so if I only have 30 watt total for 15 gallon, that makes my tank a medium- at best. Will that stuff grow? Vallisneria, there is one that is a tiger spiralis that is suppose to do well in low light, but local stores never know the difference between that and the Sagittaria- so any recommendations on where to get Vallisneria spiralis, or even the torta subspecies?
<You’re tank definitely has only medium lighting so it’s hard to say if it’ll grow or not. Maybe get just a small piece and try it. Unfortunately, I don’t know where you could get the ones you’re looking for. You’ll probably have to mail order them. You might try eBay or Aquabid (www.aquabid.com).>
What about something called Riccia fluitans- Again on Tropica.com they recommend to tie it down to stone (I could attach to pieces of driftwood) and supposedly the Amano shrimp like it too- any experience with it being a good oxygenator in tank?
<I’ve never tried it. Sorry!>
Lastly (honest), you may recall that I had a bubble wall wand that produced a lot of air surface stuff- but I took it away. Fish didn't seem so happy with it and you had mentioned it wasn't necessary with the water flow with Eclipse 1 system- do you think it would really do any good to re-introduce?
<Probably not but it’s worth a try, at least short term to see if it helps.>
As always, thanks so very much- Rosa
<You’re welcome!>
PS- did you like the last photo of the overall tank design?
<Yep, it looks very nice!! Ronni>

Re: Sword plant - leaves turning rusty
I've recently set up a planted 10gal freshwater tank.  My sword plant's leaves have been steadily turning a rusty color.  Would this be an algae problem or some other disease perhaps?  None of the other plants seem to be experiencing this problem (Anubias).  Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Iris
<It could just be a lighting issue. If your lighting is stronger or weaker than the tank they came out of then the leaves could change color. It could also have to do with nutrients in the tank. Go to http://www.wetwebmedia.com and search for Sword Plant to see what it pulls up. You should find a ton of helpful info there. Ronni>

Re: Overcoming Onyx buffering
Hi,
<Hello there>
   I have a 100 G planted tank that has a substrate composed of a mixture of sand, first layer laterite, SeaChem Fluorite, and SeaChem onyx that gets Jobs plant sticks and iron tabs on a regular basis.  I also add Seachem's Iron and Trace Minerals along with Potassium.  It has 440 W of VHO lighting and the plants are doing well.  I also have schools of several sp. of tetras. This is where my question comes in.  You see, I add only RO/DI peat soaked water with no measurable hardness and a ph of ~6 along with Tetra Blackwater extract (10-15% water change bimonthly).  But when I check the water in the tank is comes out with a ph of 7.2 and a hardness of about 120 ppm.  Is this from the Onyx?  Adding iron, etc, will also drive up the ppm, but should not affect pH, correct?  So my next question, how can I overcome this buffering or can I?  From my time in chemistry classes I remember that buffers can be exhausted.  I've tried Seachem Acid Buffer (plant safe type) in the past, though not very aggressively, but the Onyx (or whatever) seems to always win out.   I am considering CO2 injection but what else?  My goal is nice soft acidic water.  Any suggestions on achieving this short of removing the Onyx? Thanks Steve Thornton
<Do read http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/groplts101.htm and the related FAQ’s. You should find the answers to your questions there. Ronni>

Re: RO Water
Thanks for the reply. I ended up buying the JBJ 48" setup with 4-65 watt 10,000K daylight bulbs. Hopefully my plants will thank me. Only 3 more weeks till my substrate is ready (soaking in a tub to leech stuff from the soil an peat)! Regarding the RO water, I guess it is possible, the trash can sits in the kitchen next to the sink, with no lid. We do try to be very careful when around it, well I do anyways, I guess it is possible something is getting sprayed in it.
<I would get a lid just to be safe.>
This is not the first time, ammonia is coming from somewhere, the water always tests fine the first week, then in the 2nd week of sitting, the tubing the RIO is connected to will get slimy. I noticed all plastics do this in water. Is there any way to prevent this?
<This is likely bacteria consuming the ammonia.>
Is it better not to heat the water until its time to use?
<I heat mine. I am thinking it has to do more with the water being kept uncovered in the kitchen. Too many fumes/smells for my tastes. Anything you can smell will be imparted into the water by the aspirating powerhead. I would definitely get a lid and see if that makes a difference.>
Should I use the RIO to circulate and then aerate the day before or just use the aeration all the time to keep it mixed?
<I would use it for a day or two before.>
I read the FAQ on it, but am still fuzzy on these things. I guess the best would be to make only what I need, it just takes so long to make water with a 35 gpd unit.
<I understand.>
The first time this happened I didn't realize till AFTER I did a water change in my QT with ammonia water! Ugh! Anyway I'm pretty sure the test kit is correct, though it is one for salt or fresh (add 8 drops then 8 drops of part 2) which I've never been to trusty of, it does read 0 in my QT tank finally after about a month, and I confirmed that with my Aquarium Systems nitrite test which showed 0 in the QT also (finally, been blood red for weeks now, poor puffer). Since we're on the topic of RO/DI, I cannot find good info on mixing fresh water plant RO/DI water. I know using tap is probably better for plants,
<I like the control purified water gives you.>
but I do not have many yet (see above about substrate) and I would rather start soft with a low pH and go from there, easier then going from hard to soft water and lowering the pH I think. So far I have been using Kent RO Right (powder stuff, it is AWFUL, it's one big clump now) and Kent's Neutral Controller, then adding Seachem Iron, and Kent Freshwater Trace Elements. Anything different or in addition you would recommend?
<Many hobbyists use half RO and half treated tapwater, or about that much of each, to reach the desired hardness and pH level. You can experiment with that or with various reconstituting compounds/supplements.>
Thanks :)
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

fresh water to live plants
Heya crew, hope all is well...
<Howdy to you! It's a gorgeous evening in the western U.S.>
Tonight's question is about my 75g fresh water tank.  I would like to go live with plants.   I have found some that require low light and I will try one or 2 with 1 40w bulb and see how they go.   Right now the tank has a UG plate with 2 power heads (MaxiJet 1000 and 900 with a spray bar on them), and a Magnum 350 running the carbon filter w/ blue filter pad.  I keep reading that the plants are biological filter, if they are doing well then you don't
need anything else.
<They are a biological filter but I wouldn't go so far as to say no other filtration is needed.>   
My concern is that having 3"+ of gravel
<Not gravel. A very small particle substrate like sand is what you need.>
in the tank, catfish and what not can clean up the top layers of detritus, but what about the lower levels?
<Don't disturb them>
Mainly anaerobic (s?) bacteria.
<Yes but standard size aquarium gravel will just become a nutrient sink. You need sugar sized substrate to get the DSB effect.>
I would think this would build up greatly over time like in live sand in a salt tank...Having wiped out a tank to vacuuming after 6 months of not touching the gravel and releasing nitrogen
<I think you are referring to hydrogen sulfide.>
(?) into the tank killing all the fish, I am not fond of the idea of leaving sands and gravels to sit like this.
<Disturbing the substrate was the problem.>
I guess the idea is to never disturb it and thusly never releasing the toxins?
<BINGO!>   
I plan to add live sand to my refugium of my salt tank eventually and have the same concerns there.  Do you just not vacuum at all? (fresh water obviously) since its best not to disturb the plants roots etc?
<Lightly vacuum mulm that you can see on the surface of the sand. If the particle size of the substrate is small enough, nothing but water will get to the lower levels. In other words, there's really no reason to disturb the bottom layers.>   
Secondly, is the transfer, with 30 fish in the tank (see above for filters) most are tetras under 1" and a 2-3" clown loach and 2-3" Pleco...I was planning to remove 1 UG plate, and plant that side of the tank...and let it go for a month or 2, then do the other side.  How's that sound?  
<Take out small sections at a time every two weeks. This should provide ample time for the tank to recover. You can wait four weeks if you really want to.>
Any other suggestions other then more light and co2?  
<The Co2 suggestion was for future reference. With the amount of light that you have  I would be tempted to try a few plants in the tank for a while before dedicating money, expense, and time to a half-hearted venture. Add a few low light plants and wait a couple of months (at least) to see how they react to the 40 watt light. Then decide if you want to proceed without the lighting upgrade.>  
(can't afford either at the moment need to finish the 125 FOWLR too, new sump/stand/pumps gonna be expensive :(
<I do understand...>
Thanks again for your valuable input
Mark
<Thanks to you for a well though-out email. It is a pleasure to serve. David D.

Freshwater aquatic plants
Help!  I've been trying to grow plants in my tank but with no success at all.  After a while, the leaves turn yellow, then dark brown.  What seems to be the cause of this?  Does this indicate that there is too much light in my tank?
Hope to hear from you soon.  Thanks!  Philip
<Hi Philip! Check out this page, it should help you with your plants. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/groplts101.htm
Hope this turns your thumb green!  Craig>  

Variegated Ivy in small fishbowl like tank (Betta)
Hi,
Hope you can help. We just set up a small aquarium at work (in our lab) using a 1-gallon glass chromatography tank. We placed a small variegated ivy
<The terrestrial species, Hetera canariensis?>
cutting in tank and added two small fish, a tiger
<Tiger what? Not a Tiger Barb I hope>
and Betta. Can we add more ivy plants to tank. The tank is narrow , about 4inches, and the plant
cutting hangs very nicely from top. We want to be sure these plants are compatible with fish.
<Me too>
As we do not have a filter or air source we believe the roots of the plant will provide oxygen to environment.
<If it's truly aquatic... but at night it may well cause the demise of the Tiger whatever... The Betta is able to breath atmospherically...>
Thanks for your help. Elaine
<A few important points: These fishes are tropical species... need relatively warm, constant water temperature... And the plant... need to check to see if it is an underwater species... We have "complete answer" type areas for these concerns on our sites... about Bettas: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/betta_splendens.htm
About plants: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/groplts101.htm
Please read through these, the associated FAQs files for sufficient background... many folks lose their livestock, quit the hobby over simple lack of pertinent information... don't let this happen to you. Bob Fenner>

Time for a question...? An Earnest Aquarium Garden, Gardener
Hello Bob! Enjoyed your article in TFH this past month. Also, will you be going to Ft. Worth this month for MACNA XIV?
<Yes... Anthony, Steve, Jason.C... of WWM will all be there. Hope to see you>
Well, here's my aqua question. I've found that I've learned more about marines than I ever knew about freshwaters/planted gardens.
<Wait till you try them again...>
This is my first real foray into Dutch aquaria and I want to be comfortable with my lighting.......ah, the age old issue but perhaps this is not that hard.
<Agreed>
First, I've read your planted aquaria section (among everything else that I can afford) and specifically lighting. I understand that light in the 5,000K+ level is required.
<Or a bit "higher" in degrees Kelvin... basically something like that young star of ours, el Sol, the Sun>
Here's the setup: 46gal. (abt. 36x15x19) Oceanic bowfront w/accompanying glass cover and an All-glass twin-tube strip with ballasts. As for the lamps they are full-spectrum Coralife 6,500K Trichromatic and a Coralife 50/50 6,500K/7,100K.
<Okay>
Plants are numerous but be assured that all are true aquatics: 2 sword varieties doing extremely well, red Ludwigia which is healthy but more olive with a pink tinge,
<from growing conditions, mainly light>
Nomaphila (giant hygro?) 
<So called>
which is yellowing and dropping leaves,
<May need iron, perhaps more nitrogen>
red hygro looking good for 1 week, 3 crypt varieties in good condition, chain sword - 1 week, Cardamine - 1 week, Sagittaria subulata - 1 week, wisteria - so-so, didiplis - 1 week, hairgrass.
Fishes: 3 marble angels, schools of Neons and black Neons, 5 rams, 6 Otos, and a clown Pleco.
<Sounds very nice>
I'm dosing with Marc Weiss's Natural Aquarium Vital at 10ml. daily, Instant Amazon at 5ml. at water change bi-weekly, Iron supplement at half of directed amount w/water change. I will dose with trace elements once it comes in.
Substrate is a 1/2 inch layer of Flora Base, 1 1/2 inches of Fluorite and a covering of Onyx.
<Are you ready to try carbon dioxide infusion? I sense you are>
For our purposes here , also assume clear water, perfect readings (the Nat. Aq. Vital causes skewed nitrate results according to label), temp at 76 degrees. The system has only been running for about 1 month.
<Quite new>
Most plants are doing fairly well but not extraordinarily robust; they lack the deep rich colors desired.
1.. Does anything stand out to you as a concern?
<Perhaps just what you don't list... aspect/measure of alkalinity>
2.. Do I need to give this system more time to develop?
<Oh, yes!>
3.. Does my lighting seem adequate? Will replacing the 6,500K Trichromatic with Coralife's 10,000K help? I'm not sure if simply increasing the Kelvin results in gain, although I would think so.
<I would not change anything here... maybe try switching the lamp out for the 10k next cycle... and try a DIY CO2 unit (and hint re Santa bringing you a real one...>
Thanks Bob. - From Dave...always learning.
<I as well. Thank you, Bob Fenner>

Re: Time for a question...? (lighting a planted aquarium, what's next?)
Thanks Bob. I just put the 10,000K in replacing the Trichromatic. Received my shipment of a complete fertilizer and trace elements as we speak.
Yep, alkalinity could be a problem....PH is about 7.4 from our tap (which I will lower once I get a RO/DI).
<Do check the dKH here... as important as pH... critically at times>
I will practice what I preach by being patient and get to work on any one of a few CO2 rigs until the real deal.
<Like I said, do consider a "Pop bottle" type to see if you like, can use more dissolved carbonic in your system... you will be pleased, perhaps shocked at the increase in growth, health of your livestock. Bob Fenner>
Regards, from
David A. Bell

Aquarium Lighting Question, (and planted tank nutritive substrate)
Bob, I have read almost everything on your webpage, simply the best resource
I have ever found on aquarium gardening. As a person who got into the hobby
about 3 years ago I have been forced to learn most things the hard way by
listening to people who it turns out had no clue. As I have a
science/engineering background I definitely appreciate the way your articles
are written, especially the presence of references.
<Thank you for your acknowledgement.>
On to my questions, I
have been in the process of recovering my 50 gal 48" aquarium from neglect
following moving, and incorporating the learning's from my recent
investigations. I have got rid of undergravel filtration and am now running
a pro-aquatics canister at ~155gph. I am using a substrate mixture of
laterite, black onyx sand, and gravel. Next up is lighting. I was
wondering if you had any input on the advantages/disadvantages of twin tube
compact fluorescents?
<Lots of personal and second-hand experience, not much scientific>
I found a company (AHSupply.com's) that is selling
systems that seem very cost effective using these type of bulbs, complete
with true solid state ballasts. 
<Am familiar with this outfit from bulletin boards>
I am simply suspicious due to the
relatively low cost (~$124 for a system that supposedly should produce
~220W), and if the bulbs of sufficient quality are readily available from
sources other than this supplier. 
<Do take a look at the reports of others re AH: http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/>
Also I have a water question, I have a
potassium based water softener, what concerns, if any, should have about
using this water untreated in my planted aquarium, and is there special
nutrient supplementation I should do to account for what is lost in the
softening process?
<Would not worry re the potassium issue (typically unimportant as rate limiting or overabundance in these applications), and the re-constitution of your source water hardness, mineral content may prove an issue... depending on the species you choose, how much biomass, boosted metabolism/growth you intend or drive... Easy enough to do a "bio-assay" and grow what you will/want, note its appearance... and/or utilize test kits to assure your water is within whatever practical ranges of chemical, physical make-up... In practical terms... for folks like me (basically lazy) the addition of some "straight tap" serves well-enough here... even when utilizing "excess" light, CO2 infusion...>
Any help would be greatly appreciated, but I am sure you get a great deal of
questions.
Thanks,
Nate Berg
<A pleasure to interact, learn.>
ps. Any sources for bulk laterite? $15/box adds up pretty quickly...
<Not currently. Do check with the Krib, ours and other chatforums. Bob Fenner>

sand and water (for planted aquarium use)
Dear WetWebMedia Crew,
As a change of pace from saltwater, I plan on setting up a freshwater tank
with angelfish, Corydoras type catfish, and maybe some hardy tetras. I
would like to use sand as a substrate for the tank, in particular the
Tahitian Moon Sand (black) by Carib-sea. An ad in a cataloged states the
sand will not affect the pH of the water. I don't plan on keeping live
plants in the tank so was wondering if a substrate depth of 1/2" to 1" would
be enough to anchor artificial plants while not creating dead zones at the
same time?
<Should be okay>
The tank will be at my place of work which is connected to city water. I
have obtained a water quality report from the town. Polyphosphate is added
to the water supply by the town due to excess calcium (50 mg/l of the total
hardness). Is this something I should be concerned about?
<Mmm, not too much... there is sufficient uptake and use in a planted, going system... you may run into initial algae problems... I would use some fast-growing floating plants (Ceratopteris, Elodea...) in the system early on>
The total hardness is 156 mg/l, and pH is 7.2. I suspect these values are
rather high for South American fishes, but figure the majority of fish
coming from fish farms can tolerate a wider range of conditions. Any
thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Jason
<Our water in San Diego is appreciably worse for the values you cite... and I use it directly in my planted systems... including ones with organisms that favor soft, acidic water of tropical temperature. Bob Fenner>

Aquarium Plants
Hi bob,
Firstly my kudos to such a wonderful site like this. 
<kind thanks>
It has tons of useful information for a newbie like me.
<please tell other aquarists about us!>
Coming to my issue, I have bought a 30 gallon glass tank and have set it up for around 48 hrs. I
have now left a pair of rosy barbs in it and they are doing pretty fine...I wanted to go for live plants in my aquarium.. the shop keeper said, I
need to wait for a week before I can introduce the live plant..
<not true... plants draw nutrients not contribute>
so that the nitrogen cycle would have started...
<only because of the need for fertilizer but the plants need supplemented the first couple of months anyway... 2 weeks...2 months...same thing>
I have just medium sized gravel (2mm-3mm) in my tank and do not have
any soil.. I have one external power filter.. I just want to verify whether I need to do anything else before I grow live plants in this set up...
<just add a mild fertilizer>
if I can grow plants, it would be great if you can suggest some starter plants for my aquarium that would be hardy as well as aesthetic..
<anubias are durable... crinums if the tank is tall enough... many Hygrophila... avoid the pink colored ones at first... perhaps wait on swords too. You really need to read Pablo Tepoot's amazing plant books (practical Guide to plants)>>
Thank you for your time, Sathya
<best regards, Anthony>

Planted Tank Questions - please help!
Hello Mr. Fenner, Jason, Steve, and the rest of the WWM crew. I am 15 years old, and am setting my first "large" planted tank. I have many questions for you regarding my almost-set-up 75 g tank. 
<How exciting! I have two new 65 units here in my office that I'm in the same process with>
1) I am planning on using a pure Fluorite gravel bed. This is very expensive ($23 a bag!), but I
am doing it for two reasons: one, there is no suitably sized gravel sold in Hawaii pet stores (all pea-sized), and two, I do not want to add soil, due to the horror stories of people's tanks turning into an anaerobic swamp. 
<Mmm, well... I am using Fluorite AND intend to add soil>
Do you agree / is this a good substrate? What would you recommend?
<Yes, and please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PlantedTksSubWebIndex/AquariumGardenSubWebIndex.html
here re substrates, soils...>
2) I am lighting the tank with 4, 55 watt, 5300K CF lights from AH supply. Is this too bright for a "South American" setup? Again, what would you recommend?
<S/b fine... please see the above index for articles on light, lighting of planted aquariums>
3) I have some "water questions" that I hope you can answer. The pH of "aged" Hawaii tap water is 8.2, but the GH is 3, and the KH is 2. I thought that if the water is "soft", the pH is low. Any comments on that? 
<Generally these two go together... but not always... one is a "point" on a scale, the other (hardness) a measure of "resistance" to change in that point. You will find your water is easy to "move down" in pH... and needs to have its alkalinity boosted... for practical reasons>
Can I still keep soft water/low pH fish like rams, cardinal/ Rummynose tetra, etc in the setup described? 
<Yes>
I decided to have a South American planted tank because I knew the water was soft, but now I am just confused. 4) The temp of the tank water is 78*. I know with the bright lights it will be warmer.
My current "tiny tanks" have a temp of 82*, but my rams and Betta seem fine, though I know my Cory's don't like it. Fans don't seem to really help. Is this temp fine? 
<Yes>
5) Finally, I am going to filter the tank with an Eheim pro II 2060 and possibly inject CO2 with a DIY needle valve/compressed 5 lb tank-type system. What do you think of my whole setup? 
<Very nice>
What do you think the "limiting factor" in plant growth is in my setup?
<Ahh, great question... perhaps iron will be "it"... As mentioned you may well want/need to increase alkaline reserve, particularly in the face of using carbon dioxide infusion. Do read through WetWebMedia and "the Krib" (find it on the Plant Links page on WWM) re these issues>
Please answer these questions, as Hawaii's water/climate presents some problems for me, as well
as my lack of experience . . . Thank You for your help and your GREAT website. . . Aloha.
<Thank you for your kind words and participation. Do write back re missing parts on WWM, things that aren't clear; and keep us informed of your progress. Mahalo, Bob Fenner>

CO2 Injection (for live plants, Discus system)
Greetings and thank you for your previous advice on the Eheim 2128 Pro II Thermofilter! And thank you for Wet Web Media and many hours of dedication to our passion!
After forty years of fishkeeping we're setting up our first pot planted 60g Discus tank (months in the study, planning and acquisition of components; sparing virtually no expense)
<Yikes! Am I too old for you to adopt?>
and are debating the addition of a CO2 injection system with pH controller, solenoid, the works so to speak. I've been to many sites trying to decide if the CO2 system cost is valuable enough in controlling pH and helping our plants and livestock to justify the addition.
<It is>
Particularly in maintaining pH for Discus which we will be introducing several months down the road. If it will assist in providing a better environment for our future family of Discus I'll go for it!
<You will not be disappointed>
We will be running water into the RO storage unit and "firing" up the tank in the next two weeks. Your recommendation as to advisability of CO2 and manufacturers of good components would be most helpful.
Wildriv, AKA Charlie DeLorme
<Mmm, do "shop around" for advice from actual, recent users here. The various chatforums (ours: http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/) are invaluable for this. Compare features (e.g. better needle-valves, larger CO2... at least five pounds) makes, models and buy the better, bigger... they are worth it. Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

Tank Set-up
I have a 110 gal high tank 48 7/8 x 19 x 30 3/4. I am looking at the easiest
possible way to keep live plants. What would I need to have success with
live plants. And what plants do you rec. My pH is 7,3.
<Please read through the Live Plant Index on our principal site: WetWebMedia.com here.
Bob Fenner>
David Knight

Planted Aquarium
Dear Bob,
<You got Steven today.>
I have a new 65 gal. aquarium which I just set up about 10 days ago.  I used fluorite about 1.5-2 inches deep with another .75 inches regular gravel mixed on top of the fluorite.  I have planted basic aquarium plants, Val., anubias, anacharis., crypt., Rotala, moneywort, pearl grass, Sagittaria and java fern.  Water was from tap; 30% filtered through activated charcoal, remainder direct from tap and treated with water and PH conditioner (Chlorine remover, etc.,)  to 7 ph. Temperature is maintained at 75 F.  I have yet to set up the filter or add any fish/animals (except several very small snails that apparently came with the plants).  The filter will be a Filstar XP 2, but currently I am circulating water with a Hagen 301 powerhead with a small mechanical/chemical filter attachment.  Filstar will be installed in the next few days, after which I plan to add community tropicals, Kribs., and maybe some other small cichlids, like Rams.
<It would be good to wait introducing fish awhile until your plants are happily growing.>
Anyway, the problem is with the plants.  They are doing minimally ok, but are starting to yellow.  A few days ago, I added some Tetra plant food, but it seems to have done little good. 
<You did not mention anything about your lighting.  This is of critical importance when attempting live plants.>
I have two questions.  First, any idea on what might be the current problem with the plants (which were all healthy when planted)? Second, will I eventually need to add CO2, and if so, can it be added inexpensively in some fashion other than the seemingly complicated and expensive devices I have seen in the various aquarium catalogues?
<There are some yeast based devices and Alka-seltzer ones, but none of these> 

Planted Aquarium Follow-up
Steve, Thanks for the comments.  You are right.  I intended to mention lighting, but because I have a brand new 110 wt Oceanic Power Compact, which the LFS clerk promised was more than sufficient for live plants, I did not think it as significant as the other factors, and thus forgot to mention lighting. 1.  Is this light, which has a 9,300 temp. rating, adequate for the plants in my tank?  If I were to add lighting, what type would you recommend?  Are the "plant" or "grow" type lights, such as Flora Sun or Nutri Grow, good for plants as advertised?
<This Kelvin temperature seems a little high for live plants, typically closer to 6,500K.  That is assuming that the number is actually accurate, which is rarely the case.  Most plant type bulbs will appear yellow to our eyes.  I believe the brands you mentioned only come in standard fluorescents and would not work in your fixture.>
2. Other than the filtration, what do you recommend I do to improve the situation?
<I would get and read some books on aquarium plants.  Pablo Tepoot and Takashi Amano ha