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FAQs about Canister, Cartridge Filters For Marine Systems,
Rationale/Use
Related Articles: Physical Filtration, Review
of the ViaAqua Canister Filter,
Related FAQs: Canister Filters 1, Canister Filters 2,
Canister Filters 3, Outside Power
Filters, & FAQs on:
Placement, Media,
Plumbing,
Maintenance, Troubleshooting/Repair, By Manufacturer:
Eheim, Fluval,
Other Brands,
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Canister, cartridge type filters are useful as mechanical, and to a degree
biological adjuncts for otherwise well-set-up and maintained (and
other-filtered) marine systems |
Re: Live Rock... actually canister filter use, SW 10/20/08
I also have a large Fluval FX5 external filter.
What would you suggest I do
with it.
<Run it empty if you want, just water movement.>
Should I fill it
with filter media or use it with nothing in it for water movement.
<They are
a bit of maintenance nightmares, need to be cleaned often (weekly), so the less
stuff to trap detritus the better.>
Kenny
<Chris>
Sump or
Canister filter or both? 8/24/08
Hello again guys, I've been doing a lot of research lately and I'm feeling
really stupid right now. When I started into the saltwater hobby I was evidently
told all the wrong things. Ok, here we go. I have a 46g bow front with no sump,
a BakPak 2 protein skimmer and a canister filter plus about 45 to 50 pounds of
live rock and live sand for the substrate. I was told this is basically all I
needed.
DUH!!!.
<This setup can be quite successful, not that bad.>
I'm currently in the process of getting my newly acquired calcium reactor up and
running but have decided to hold off until other problems are solved. First, I
would like to know what I need exactly to get this thing right. Sump, canister
filter or a wet/dry filter, or a combination?
<If you wish to upgrade, a simple sump will do. This can house your reactor,
skimmer, heater, etc. While you are at it, do consider incorporating a fishless
macroalgae refugium, these can work wonders. No wet/dry needed, you rock takes
care of that, the canister can be used for mechanical filtration and running
carbon if you wish, but will need to be cleaned very frequently as to not allow
detritus to accumulate, leading to nitrate production. Do also keep in mind that
a sump/refugium can be something as simple as a $5 plastic bin or cheap 20
gallon aquarium, no need to spend several hundreds of dollars on acrylic unless
you want to.>
I eventually want to put corals in this system so I want the setup to be right.
My canister filter is on its last legs and I've been pricing the Eheim pro's but
if this type of filter is not good then I could easily spend the money on a sump
or wet/dry and overflow box plus pumps and plumbing.
<I would rather see you invest in a sump and overflow setup with this rather
than another canister. Also, do consider drilling this tank for an overflow
before you stock a bunch of corals in it!.>
Please help this poor misguided fool!
Craig
<It sounds like you are on the right track, Scott V.>
Re: Sump or Canister filter or both? 8/24/08
Thank you for the quick response.
<Welcome.>
I have a few more questions though. I've read that the live rock shouldn't be
placed directly on the LS due to trapping dangerous gases. This is how my
current setup is. I would have to change it I know, but do I save the sand by
vacuuming it very well or should I just replace it? Should I replace the LR as
well or remove it and scrub it down and hope for the best? The rock should be
raised up above the LS correct? Then just arrange the LS around the LR or leave
the LS out all together and place the rock on the glass?
<Hmmm, the only real danger comes if you wish to have digging critters in the
tank. They can dig beneath a rock, leading to a rockslide in your tank. You may
put the rock in your tank and then add the sand if you wish for your aquascaping
to be more stable. Use the same rock and sand, no need to change.>
As far as a sump goes, what needs to be in it besides a return pump? I know I
can place the skimmer in it and the return line from the reactor but I've read
that bio bale or balls are not good.
<Nope, your live rock will provide biofiltration.>
My protein skimmer has bale, should I remove it?
<I would. This stuff is in there just as much to prevent microbubbles as
anything. With the skimmer in your sump this should not be an issue. Also, do
pay attention to the water level relative to the skimmer, this can make a huge
difference.>
Should carbon go into the sump or some kind of phosphate remover?
<Carbon if you run it. Phosphate removers should be used with caution and water
testing. It is easy to strip the water of phosphate, it is a required compound.>
I've been searching around some sites looking for a sump and overflow boxes,
what is your opinion on these? CPR CS50 300gph and the CPR CS90 600gph for the
overflow and a Eshopps RS-75 10gal sump.
<They will all work, use double what you will need incase one fails, likely in
time one will. Also, plan on an actual flow of 300 gph per 1” bulkhead, this is
the size these boxes typically use. Do consider the drilling I mentioned before,
check out my site: Glass-Holes.com for more info.>
I'm not sure what my flow rate should be for the sump so that’s why I'm looking
at two different overflow boxes. I've honestly thought about emptying the tank
completely and take the fish to my LFS for safe keeping until I can get all this
stuff cleared up, good idea or bad?
<No, not really much to clear up.>
This tank has been running for about 6 yrs. now as is.
<If the status quo is working, maybe you don’t want to touch it!>
I'm in SC and there aren't any really good LFS's in this area where the info can
be trusted. I have some books but they all approach a marine setup differently.
The sump info and LR,LS info would really help me out in trying to figure out
what to do. I love the site you all have and have found the information
eye-opening, thank you again.
Craig
<All this is just a matter of reading through the WWM FAQs re overflows and
plumbing. Doing so will shed much more light on the whole process. Welcome,
Scott V.>
Re: Sump or Canister filter or both?
8/26/08
Hi again, o.k. you've sold me on the drilling idea because my airline
to my skimmer gets clogged all the time. But how do I drill the tank with the
fish still in it?
<You don’t, it will need to be emptied. Very much worth doing before you take
the leap of adding corals.>
Also, I'm not clear on the comment about the water level in relation to the
skimmer in the sump. How do I get the water level right in the sump to prevent a
flood if the power goes out?
<There are many, many pages covering this. Start here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/sumpdesfaq.htm
and it will become clear.>
As far as the LR and LS, I plan on removing both and place the rock on top of 2"
dia. pvc cut to a 1" or 1-1/2" height to raise it off the floor of the tank and
then adding the LS. Just not sure on the depth the LS should be. Sounds like a
good idea?
<Yes, this will be fine. As for the sand: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dsbfaqs.htm
.>
This is a 46g. bow front tank so which overflow would I need?
<An overflow that will handle the flow we discussed previously will do. Get one
that will handle twice to flow (more drains) to have some redundancy; ideally
two 1.5” drains.>
Thanks again. The information here is golden.
Craig
<Welcome, keep reading, Scott V.>
Eheim Canister Flow Rate 8/1/08
Hi WWM Crew,
<Krissy>
I have been searching for some time for the answer to this question (I have even
called Eheim directly). My question is how does Eheim calculate their listed
flow rate for canister?
<By measuring the flow, I know, had to say it!>
I know most brands list their flow rates as what the max flow will be if the
canister was empty and ran without media. It seems to me that Eheim has lower
flow rates than other brands but still lists them as able to handle larger
capacity aquariums. For ex: Marineland c-series 360 is rated at 360 gph and
recommended for up to 100 gallon tanks. Eheim pro II 2126 lists a flow rate of
250 gph but is still recommended for 100 gallon aquariums. Is Eheim more
accurate at listing the flow rate in a real world situation (i.e. filled with
media)?
<I personally cannot speak to the method Eheim uses to rate their flow capacity.
But, there are two points worth mentioning regarding this. First, Eheim is known
for making the best of the best canister filters for good reason, they work
great, extremely reliable and user friendly. Second, do not confuse flow rate
with filtering capacity. A 250 gph flow is plenty to filter a 100 gallon
aquarium. The ratings have many other factors, such as media capacity and
effectiveness.>
Thanks for the help!
Krissy
<Welcome, I hope this gives you some insight. I have used many canisters over
the years, Eheim products being a fav. Scott V.>
Should I continue to use my canister
filter? 7/8/08
Hi crew,
<Hello>
It seems I send you a question once a week now, but you seem to be one of the
few reliable resources available. I have a 55 gallon reef tank,
with a canister filter, AquaC Remora Protein Skimmer (recently purchased, maybe
a month ago), about 50 pounds of live rock, and an
approx. 1.5 inch sand bed. I test my water weekly, and I can never seem to get
my nitrates and phosphates to zero. I do a 10% weekly water
change and I used phosphate drops to control the PO4.
<Better to find the source of the phosphates than try to chemically treat it
after the fact.>
I was speaking with an experienced reefer last night and mentioned that I was
using a canister filter. He said that this may be the cause of my high nitrate
and phosphate levels, stating that if I don't clean my filter media every few
months, that the filter will continue to pump through the scum
on the media, therefore releasing nitrates and phosphates back into the tank.
<Less so with the phosphates than nitrates, but they can be problematic. Also to
counter this the filter needs to be cleaned weekly.>
He said with a 55 gallon tank, the Remora and my live rock are the only
filtration devices that I need. He suggested getting rid of the canister filter.
This guy has an AMAZING 120 gallon reef tank, and a 110 gallon reef tank with
all SPS coral, calcium reactor, dual overflows...the works...so I think he knows
what he is talking about.
Though I haven't been in the hobby for very long, I was under the impression
that I needed a filter on my tank.
<Not really, unless you have a high bioload, otherwise the rock and skimmer
should be sufficient.>
What do you guys suggest?
<You could remove it, just be ready with water changes if any parameters gets
out of line, it may take a little while for the bacteria in the rock to
compensate for the loss of the canister. Or you could just remove all the filter
media and continue to use it for water movement and occasional
carbon/poly-filters.>
Thanks again, Jared S.
<Welcome>
<Chris>Re: Should I continue to use my canister
filter? 7/8/08
Chris,
<Hello>
Thanks for the information.
<Welcome>
I think I will go the route of removing the media to maintain water flow. And I
should keep the carbon and poly-filters in the filter at all times? Or place
them in occasionally?
Thanks again, Jared S.
<I would run only as needed, otherwise you will have the same problem as now and
need to clean them weekly, which can be a maintenance headache.>
<Chris>
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User friendly canister filter
and bristleworm control 02/25/2008
Hi Guys: What a wonderful website!!! My question is regarding user friendly
canister filters. I'm a bit confused.
<<G'Morning, Andrew today>>
I have a 55 gallon marine tank with Emperor 400 Bio Wheel, powerhead and CPR
Back Pack protein skimmer (your recommendation; thanks so much, love it!!). Have
about 70 lbs. of live rock, in addition to crushed coral and base rock.
Livestock: (one of each) false percula clown, royal Gramma, striped damsel and a
wrasse that eats bristleworms.
<<Maybe consider switching out the crushed coral at some point for reef grade
sugar sized aragonite sand>>
The present equipment keeps aquarium fairly clean between bi-weekly, 20% water
changes. Water is clear but never polished. Why is this? Bristleworms?
Insufficient filtration?
<<Switch water changes to 10% per week, rather than the larger change every two
weeks. The bristleworms won't cause dirty water>>
Would like to put "water polishing" filter on to really sparkle up the water.
Questions:
1. Can I use a canister filter in addition to present equipment?
<<Yes, you can do that, and run some carbon in the filter to hopefully clear up
the water>>
2. What is you recommendation for a simple user friendly canister filter? What
size, brand, model do you recommend for this set up? Keep in mind my mechanical
skills are extremely limited. (The CPR BakPak PS is just super!! I need
something as efficient and easy to maintain as this).
<<The Rena XP2 filter would be a fine choice (
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~AP7313.html ). These are easy
to use with tray filtration. You can add a bag of carbon to one of the trays and
live rock rubble to the other>>
3. Need bristleworm control tips in addition to the wrasse which does a decent
job but does not eliminate them completely. Is this possible?
<<If your bristle worms are not at plague levels, then they are fine to leave in
there. They will act as part of your cleanup crew in the tank>>
Looked at the Marineland Magnum 350 and Eheim models of canister filters but am
not sure which would be appropriate. Would the HOT Magnum 250 do the job? Do you
recommend HOT, immersible, or undertank models?
<<the marine land is not a very adaptable filter besides running the standard
sponge filter, which is not really much use to you....same again with the
cheaper Eheim filters, they are just sponge filter pads.. The Rena Xp2 or 3
would be a far better choice>>
Please advise. Thanks so much!! June Mary
<<Thanks for the questions. Hope this helps. A Nixon>>
Canister Filter... media, SW
2/14/08
Hi everyone and thanks for all your past help! My tank spec is as follows;
280 litre tank, 1 inch bed of fine crushed coral sand, good selection of nice
live rock, few mushrooms, star polyps,1 lemon peel angelfish, 2 clownfish, 1
scooter blenny, 1 fuzzy dwarf lionfish, 1 regal tang ( larger tank on way as
promised by wife! ),
<For the Scooter Blenny’s sake also.>
1 fire shrimp, 1 purple reef lobster, I run a Fluval 405 external filter, Hydor
300 watt external heater, red sea Prizm deluxe skimmer ( next thing on list to
upgrade after a lot of sucking up to wife ha ha ),
<Good plan.>
Arcadia over tank Lumminaire t5 lights, Tunze Nanostream Turbelle 6045 powerhead
( was running 2 of these but kicked up to much sand , just so powerful ).
<These do provide tons of flow and must be directed carefully.>
All livestock happily getting on and all seem to be very healthy, eating and
active. I have read somewhere recently that the external filter I use is
actually only any good to use for ROWAphos and carbon?
<Canisters can be used for mechanical/biological filtration also, they just
require frequent cleaning to prevent detritus buildup which leads to excessive
nitrate production. You refer to your substrate as sand, but if it is the
typical coarsely crushed coral substrate, then same applies to it as the
canister filter.>
Do you think this is right? Would my tank crash if I didn't use the external
filter with all the sponges and filter media ( bio rings ) or would my live rock
be able to cope?
<This depends entirely on how much live rock you have. For a tank this size I
would look to have a minimum of 50lbs (23kg) for filtration.>
Thanks for your time and expertise, hope to hear from you soon.
<Welcome, I have included some pertinent links below, Scott V.>
http://wetwebmedia.com/marcanfiltuse.htm
http://wetwebmedia.com/marsubstsel3.htm
|
Fluval Died...Replacement
Recommendation 1/29/08
Hi there.
Grateful for all your insights and answers.
<Hi Walt, happy to help out.>
Hope you can get specific on our situation.
Have a 150 gallon tank with a TruVu Platinum series sump.
Only inhabitants are a 7 inch Porcupine Puffer and a 3 inch Dog Faced Puffer.
Our nitrate levels have been quite high for awhile, and while the fish are
healthy, we're trying to 'improve' conditions.
<OK, better water quality never hurts.>
Recently got rid of the wet/dry bio-balls and put in a refugium with
biosediment, rock, sand, Chaeto, and turtle grass.
<Nice.>
Have an Aqua C Urchin Pro skimmer (got this because of the small footprint size
in the left part of the sump...9x9)
<Good skimmer.>
Our Fluval 404 canister filter just stopped working (5 years old, transferred it
from a 55 gallon).
So now the question....
Get a new, better, filter - and if so, a recommendation please.....
(Marineland, Eheim, etc)
<I would have to vote for the Eheim.>
OR
just upgrade to a super skimmer (footprint issue a concern) and forget the
canister filter approach.
<This really depends on the amount of live rock you have in this system. If your
canister was providing your primary biofiltration you should act quickly to
replace it. If you have sufficient live rock, you can skip the canister
altogether. As far as skimmer choices, I would rather keep the skimmer you have
over the model proposed. If you wish to upgrade (not a bad idea), perhaps
another Urchin or something in AquaC’s EV series. Both will be tight, but should
fit in your sump area of 9”x9” (do account for the addition of the pump required
with the EVs when measuring things out). The EV series can even sit outside the
sump if you have room.>
THANK YOU!!!
Walt
Re: Fluval Died...Replacement
Recommendation 1/29/08
Thank you very much for the quick response, as we weren't sure how 'urgent'
a priority replacing the Fluval was.
<If it were your primary biomedia, yes.>
With approximately 100 pounds of live rock in the 150 tank, perhaps we'll see
how the levels are before rushing out to get a new canister filter.
<You have plenty for your stated bioload.>
(I believe I read on WWM that some canisters can be nitrate 'houses', which
really defeats our goal of lowering the levels...would that be true of even an
Eheim?)
<Yes it is, if it is not cleaned very frequently.>
AND...If we decide to go with just the live rock approach rather than an Eheim
canister, do we need even more live rock in the tank?
<You could put a little more in a 150, but you will be fine here.>
THANKS again!
Walt
<Welcome, best of luck, Scott V.>
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Should I Use A Canister
Filter? - 12/31/07
Hi Eric or whoever is on duty this evening,
<<Hiya Ken...Eric here>>
My 90 gallon SPS tank is doing great.
<<Excellent>>
I recently set up a second tank primarily for a RBTA and a pair of Clarkii clown
fish.
<<Neat!>>
I will probably add another 4 small fish and some star polyps and mushrooms at
some point.
<<Mmm, too bad...the tank/anemone would fare much better in the long term
without the polyps and mushrooms trying to constantly poison it>>
The tank is a 46 gallon bow (3 foot length) with about 65 pounds of live rock,
TEK 5 T5 lighting, two Tunze 6025 Nano Stream powerheads, and a Deltec hang on
back skimmer. I am not using a sump. Even though I can make a large % water
change with a couple of buckets of new water, or water from my SPS tank with
this size tank if I ever run into trouble, I was wondering if I should add a
canister filter to my set up?
<<I would...for chemical filtration (carbon/Poly-Filter)>>
If I did this, I would not use the bio media or noodles, and just use the sponge
for mechanical filtration to trap debris.
<<If you do...be sure to clean the filter sponge of detritus one or more times a
week, else the canister filter will become more of a "problem" than a
"solution">>
I could also use it for PhosBan etc if needed.
<<Indeed>>
I have no mechanical filtration in my SPS tank, but the debris eventually will
end up in my sump which I can then clean out.
<<Agreed... And with good strong water flow, the suspended detritus (or marine
snow, if you like) is actually quite good "food" for your corals>>
This tank has no sump. I of course will have a clean up crew for the tank. Do
you think the canister filter is a good idea or a waste of money?
<<Can be quite useful, as described/when maintained properly>>
If it is a good idea, is Eheim still the way to go?
<<Many choices available these days...but you won't go wrong with the Eheim
product>>
Thanks,
Ken
<<Happy to help. EricR>>
Re: Should I Use A Canister
Filter? – 01/02/08
Hi Eric,
<<Hello Ken>>
Happy New Year! I hope all is well with you.
<<And a ‘Happy New Year’ to you as well!>>
I may opt out of the mushrooms and polyps then.
<<Will be best…in my opinion>>
I did not realize that they "poison" the water.
<<Mmm, yes…quite noxious. And as with everything on a reef, are constantly “at
battle” for the available real estate utilizing their quite formidable chemical
weaponry. A fact that is compounded by the confines of an aquarium>>
I though the issue was with the anemone moving around and stinging its tank
mates.
<<This too can be/is a problem. But in this scenario, it is more likely the
anemone would eventually succumb to the stress and strain of defending itself
from the encroaching polyps and mushrooms as they reproduce and spread. These
organisms are quite popular with new aquarists for their ease of keeping,
colors, and prolific nature…but I can tell you, many (including myself) regret
their introduction>>
If you recall, I did plan on a BTA in my 90 gal tank but took it out after a
couple of months. BTA became a PITA. :)
<<Does happen>>
One last thing about the canister filter, would using a PhosBan filter with
RowaPhos be as good a solution as using an "Eheim" type filter? I know they are
completely different but if I do not use the canister for mechanical filtration,
Rowa Phos would probably be all that I would put in the chamber anyway.
<<There may be some difference in the degree of efficiency between a canister
filter and these fluidized reactors, but yes, for what you describe this is
fine>>
IF, this tank runs as my 90 gallon does, I won't use carbon or anything else. I
only use the PhosBan reactor and no other media on my 90.
<<I see>>
What is your opinion?
<<I say, give it a go>>
I haven't spoken to you in about a year (when my tank was set up initially)
<<Ah yes…I believe I was in Hawaii visiting/diving with Bob at the time>>
so let me give you an update.
<<Okay>>
If you recall, it is a 90 gallon tank with an H&S skimmer, Marine Technical
Concepts Pro-Cal calcium reactor, Sunlight Supply Maristar light fixture with
two 250-watt 10,000k Ushio bulbs and two 54-watt T5 ATI bulbs, and two Tunze
6000 powerheads with controller. The tank did not start out as an SPS tank, but
that is basically what it became. I literally have my SPS growing like weeds.
<<Neat!>>
I can keep my alkalinity constantly between 10 and 11 dKH. My calcium is about
420 but I really don't check it that often as I really just monitor alkalinity.
<<Would seem that calcium reactor is working well>>
My nitrates and phosphates are very close to zero using a Salifert test kit. I
think my skimmer gets the credit for that as I do not do a lot of water changes.
<<Likely so…but do consider the water changes also replenish the good/remove the
bad things we don’t/can’t test for…or even know about, or understand their
role/effect. Everything in your tank is a consumer of the elements in saltwater,
as well as a polluter of this medium. Nothing has a larger impact on
replenishing the one and diluting the other than frequent water changes…
Something that should never be neglected in my book…regardless of how
“efficient” the filtration gear or how well we “think” our tank is doing>>
It was great hearing from you.
<<And you, mate!>>
I'm glad you're still here.
<<Ah, well…I’ll likely continue for as long as Bob sees benefit from my
participation [grin]>>
Regards,
Ken
<<Be chatting. Eric Russell>>
R2: Should I Use A Canister Filter? - 01/02/08
Hi Eric,
<<Ken>>
You have a good memory.
<<I wish… [grin]>>
We were exchanging email at that time you were diving in Hawaii.
<<Yup>>
You are correct about the water changes in that it is not just about diluting
what is in the tank, but also what gets brought back in. I do notice after a
water change, some of my coral are more open.
<<Mmm, yes…but which aspect is the cause re? Dilution of pollution? Re-supply of
essential elements? Both? Likely the latter I think>
I have one last question regarding my new tank that has recently cycled.
<<Okay>>
When I use a turkey baster to blow off the rocks, there is a lot of debris.
<<Indeed…detritus/mulm>>
Since I have no mechanical filtration or sump, I was thinking of briefly using
my diatom filter that I used to use when I had a plant tank and use it on this
tank while I blow off the rocks and the debris is suspended in the water.
<<You could… Or simply siphon it away when doing FREQUENT WATER CHANGES [big
grin]>>
It is a Tetra or Whisper and it worked quite well. Is there any harm using the
diatom powder? This may be a dumb question but can I get diatoms in the tank
from this?
<<While the powder does have a very high silica content, I think there is little
to be concerned with considering the short duration of use involved. Do be sure
to keep the powder itself from entering the tank>>
Thanks and regards,
Ken
<<Happy to assist. EricR>>
|
"Polishing" Water 12/24/07
Dear Crew,
Happy holidays!
<And Happy Holidays to you, too! Scott F. in today!>
I need your help yet again. I want to clarify my water more. I have an Outer
Orbit light fixture and the light seems to reflect every particle in the water.
I was thinking of adding an additional filter, but not sure which one. I was
thinking of either an Eheim where I can pack my own filter media, or an Ocean
Clear inline filter made just for polishing water. If I go with the Eheim, I
don't know what filter media to use. I would prefer the Eheim as this will only
draw 50 watts. Any suggestions? Thank you.
Jeff
<Well, Jeff- I like the Eheim, too. I would probably use a mechanical media,
such as "Ehfimech", which is a porous clay material that traps debris. I would
also utilize activated carbon for its chemical filtration capabilities. If you
pay attention to the replacement and cleaning of these media, you'll get really
great results for the long run. Best of luck to you! Regards, Scott F.>
|
External Canister
filter 11/26/07
Hi
<Hello>
My set up is 190 Liter 42g, (UK) bow front, air driven skimmer, LR (but
unsure how much (see pic, please note one or two small pieces of base
rock at the bottom).
Filtration is via an Eheim pro 2 2026- media- some sort of white ring in
the bottom compartment, covered with a blue coarse sponge, then a layer
of white/cream porous balls in the next and a bag of phos remover next
to it.
<OK>
All parameters low, but I’ve been advised remove all media and have the
Eheim solely for mechanical filtration. I’m diligent when it comes to
maintenance, and I intend to clean the filter, propeller (gunk), and the
media once a month (using tank water when doing a change), therefore
shall I stick with my set up, or remove the media?
Mo
<The problem you are hearing about is with the mechanical filtration
itself. It traps detritus that could otherwise be processed out of your
system, producing excessive nitrate. The filter and media can be used if
you are very diligent about cleaning, I would clean it at least once a
week. Just keep an eye on your nitrate level and watch out for the
dreaded algae. Happy reefing, Scott V.> |
|
 |
Why Add A Canister Filter
With A Wet-Dry? – 11/07/07
Hello guys and thank you for donating to me some of your time.
<<Quite welcome>>
In an e-mail that was sent to me from Eric R., he answered some of my questions
regarding my high-nitrates (has recently gone down to 25 from over 160 ppm)
<<Excellent>>
and also gave me a few general tips.
<<I hope they were of use>>
It was suggested by Eric to buy a refugium and also a small canister filter with
cut-up Poly-Filter in it to better my setup.
<<Indeed...both are always worthwhile additions in my opinion>>
I understand why I should have a refugium (a medium Aquafuge refugium and live
sand is coming in the mail), but I didn't understand why I would need a small
canister filter plus I don't want to buy one if it won't be worth my while.
<<The canister filter was suggested merely as a means to provide some additional
chemical filtration to your system...if you have some other way of utilizing the
Poly-Filter media then by all means do so>>
Maybe I was unclear when describing my setup. Oh, and FYI I've only been in the
marine hobby for 3.5 months so I am of little knowledge.
<<You are changing that just by reading/being here>>
I have a 120g FOWLR saltwater tank with 45lbs live rock with a 2" layer of
crushed coral.
<<I probably mentioned this before, but this two-inch “crushed coral” bed is
probably a large contributor to your Nitrate issue as the course material will
trap much uneaten food/detritus and the depth is not sufficient to foster enough
of the right kinds of bacteria to function as a proper DSB. It would be best to
either reduce the depth to an inch or less...increase the depth to four-inches
or more...or change it out for a “sugar-fine” Aragonite material>>
It houses a Snowflake Eel, 4 Damsels, and various Hermit Crabs and snails. For
filtration I use a Little Giant water pump that runs 640 gph into a 2' wide by
1' deep by 1' high wet-dry trickle. The water when going through the middle
chamber in the wet-dry trickles first goes thru a standard filter pad, then thru
De-nitrate and activated Carbon, then thru a piece of felt, then thru more
De-nitrate and activated Carbon plus Chemi-pure, then thru another filter plan,
and finally trickles over live rock before being pumped into the main tank. I
have a Berlin Triple Pass Turbo Hang-On Protein Skimmer that is rated for tanks
up to 250g. I now realized I made a poor purchase regarding my skimmer but I'm
not about to replace it due to the fact it cost over $200. I also have 3
foot-long air stones lining the back of my tank for extra oxygen for my
Snowflake.
<<The skimmer should oxygenate the water well enough...as I suspect the air
stones are creating much salt-creep around the top of your tank>>
Considering my current setup, would it be a good idea to add a canister filter?
If so, why, and how big?
<<A canister filter would ensure the most efficient/effective use of the
Poly-Filter just by the very nature of its design/function (forces water
“through” the filter material), and any of the small “external” canister filters
would suffice...but...you can also likely employ the Poly-Filter material
somewhere in your Wet-Dry filter... Is up to you>>
Thank you for your generous service.
-Phil
<<Happy to assist. Eric Russell>>
Giant Hawkfish problem...
Actually induced env. prob.s 9/3/07
Hi,
<Christine>
I have looked up your site for a while now but now I am having trouble with my
giant hawkfish and I hope someone is able to help me. I have had him for about a
year and in the last month I have switched from a sump system to a canister
filter...
<Mmmm... I am not a fan by and large of using these types as sole...>
it is a Rena xp4 and the tank size is 100 gallons. He shares it with an eel
(fimbriated) and since i switched the sump out i noticed his breathing got a lot
heavier.
<Oh yes... very likely the agitation of air/water in the sump brought oxygen
into high saturation>
I thought it was the heat so I got a chiller, still the breathing was heavy
although the temperature is perfect so I got some aeration going in the tank.
For about a few weeks he was fine but as of the last few days I noticed his
breathing has gotten very heavy, lethargic and occasionally does this scary
coughing thing where he looks like he might explode.
<Very dangerous... Very likely these two species/specimens also need more room
than this 100... I have seen Fimbriated morays that required hundreds of gallons
for themselves>
I did a full battery of tests and found the nitrate and nitrite to be both
high..
<How high is high, sigh...>
I did a 20% water change added some AmQuel + and so far the readings have been
perfect.
<Warning! This Kordon product (the PVP ingredient) will give false negatives
with some test kits...>
Everything is at zero. Although the ph is a bit low at 7.8.
<Too low...>
Anyway, that's all the info i think that might help... i will be adding another
biological filtration unit to the tank with a few days in hopes that it needs
more (as he and his brother are messy eaters) but i just don't know what might
be wrong.
<The loss of the sump... not enough volume... the too-driven-nitrification
effects of canister filtration, poor water quality... You've stated it all>
I will also get proper ph to up the ph level to 8.2.
<Not a good idea, means... need more naturally available carbonate,
bicarbonate... more hard, soluble substrate/s...>
The eel seems to breathe heavy at times but it seems the hawkfish is the one who
is losing his color, breathing heavy at times and then almost not at other times
and occasionally coughs. Sorry if this is long but i don't know what it might
be.. any thoughts? Parasite maybe and if so how does one tell? I don't want to
add anything to the water that might make them worse... thanks so much for any
feedback! Oh and also the salinity is perfect as well as the temperature so
those are not possible problems. thanks!!! :)
Christine
<... Please... get a larger system, bring back the sump, consider using the
canister simply as a contactor... Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marcanfiltuse.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Re: 30 gallon aquarium with Eheim 2234
7/28/07
Bob,
<Hubert>
Thanks for your reply. I guess I need to do some additional research on
fish/system compatibility. After reading few books I had the peaceful
community tank figured out.:-).
Also, I know that there is no media in the skimmer, but what I was referring
to was the type of media in my Eheim filter that would be best in
conjunction with the Remora skimmer.
<Is as stated previously>
So if the live rock provides great bio filtration, skimmer is removing all
<Not all>
the nasties from the water, should my filter media (Eheim) focus on
mechanical/chemical filtration only. Or should I also use bio filtration in
the Eheim as well. Thanks!!
<In most all marine applications I suggest canister filters only as adjuncts
to bio-filtration, with the chance of occasional chemical filtrants. This is
all archived/posted on WWM>
Hubert
<BobF>
Use of Canister Filters, SW, Koran Sys.,
Selecting a/the "truth" – 06/07/07
Guys, I found this on FAQ
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marcanistfltfaqs.htm, . You said to read
about the systems and such, Bob said the FX5 canister filter might not be a
good choice and I have too many incompatible fish in my small 80 gal tank,
but...
<Yes>
Under Canister filters, the FAQ says they can be good for bio filtration.
<Can... in actual practice the use of canisters period has some dire
potential... should the power or pump go out for a period of time... an hour
or more let's say... and resume... the anaerobic activity can be
troublesome... to deadly>
The FX5 I'm using is about the largest in the industry, strictly bio only,
and is easy to clean if necessary.
<Good features, points>
Using additional filtration for mech/chem and a skimmer (of which I just
purchased a larger one), by reading some of this FAQ it looks good. The
question answered below makes mention of the other filtration besides the
canister needing to be addressed but doesn't dissuade the writer from using
them.
<Antoine's opinion at the time...>
Secondly, the writer has a 55gal with similar bioload, that being a Koran
angel, a yellow tang, a moon wrasse (thinking Lunare wrasse or similar),
plus some others. There is no mention of concern about incompatibility or
bio overload for the tank size.
<Again... I certainly would mention... Please, not to be argumentative here,
take a look around reference works re Pomacanthus...>
I'm adding another 25 gallons with the 80 gallon, plus with the designs to
go to a 135 in the very near future.
<Still too small for this species...>
Now, the shark is pretty stationary (and currently only 6", but yes, will
grow), and yes the puffer creates a bigger bioload on the tank. But the
three large fish (not large yet in the 80, larger with time in the 135),
that being the doggy, the tang, and an angel, ought to be similar to
gentleman's livestock below and there was no concern mentioned in this FAQ.
<Again... keep reading. Selecting one input from a small sample is not going
to grant you much insight... Yes, even if it were mine>
A Koran gets pretty large, too, and in a 55gal?
<Yes>
See, I did go back and reread the FAQ on compatibility of the three fish,
and with the yellow tangs didn't see where there was a direct conflict.
Angels can be aggressive, yes. Some actually recommend puffers as good tank
mates with these fish, too.
Just stressing again that the below question was an example and isn't my
original Q. Two, I am in NO WAY being critical of any WWM answer, as you
guys have been really helpful to me, but I just wanted to point out that
sometimes when I do reread the previous stuff I get some conflicting info.
Below quoted from FAQ on Canister filters:
"Re: Filter change
Hi all-
Thank you for the reply to my filter question. As a follow-up, will
switching from a hang-on filter to a canister make a significant difference?
<most canister filters are larger than hang-ons and may very well be more
effective by virtue of their size. Pick a good brand like Eheim that has
been around for decades and is tried and true>
I am currently running a 55 gallon saltwater aquarium with about 30 pound of
live rock, a CPR Bak Pak skimmer, an undergravel filter, and a Whisper hang
on filter. Basically, it's a FOWLR (plus one starfish) with a Cardinalfish,
Koran angel, yellow tang, two striped damsels, and moon wrasse.
<hmmm... do maintain that UG filter diligently>
The biggest reason for my considering a filter change is the frequency with
which I'm changing the filter pads, sometimes twice a week.
<either you are feeding WAY too much food or your skimmer has not been
adjusted to collect good skimmate DAILY or a combination of both. A canister
filter is not going to solve your problem... only put a bandage on a
symptom>
I know a canister filter requires maintenance as well, but I wonder if I'm
harming water quality by having a filter with less filtering ability
(although water parameters test fine).
<if you get the canister, do modify with a course foam block (like from a
Hagen AquaClear filter) on the intake strainer. Rinse and reuse this
frequently and this will dramatically extend the life of the media in your
canister>
Thanks in advance for all your help. All good wishes, Daryl Klopp
<best regards, Anthony>"
<Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/koran.htm
and the linked files above. BobF> Canister or Power Filter for Nutrient Export? Neither 3/15/07
Hi Crew..,
<Hello.>
I have a 55 gal reef tank with about 35 lbs of live rock, an A-Miracle
HOT wet/dry trickle filter and a remora protein skimmer and two extra pumps just
to increase water flow. Inhabitants are 10 Nassarius snails, a serpent
star, mushroom, a few button polyps, diamond goby, flame angel , a bicolor
pseudo and an algae blenny. Nothing terribly fancy as you can see. Mostly,
things run well, but whenever I seek to add a fish, I start having problems. I
think the wet/dry is too small, and as a result, the system cannot handle even
a slightly increased bio load. I'd like to add supplemental filtration, and I
am considering the Eheim Pro 2224 canister. What do you think?
<For nutrient control, no.>
Should I use it as both chemical and mechanical filtration, or, given that its
just to be a supplemental, am I better off just with chemical filtration to keep
nitrates and phosphate
<Nice to have on hand in emergencies, use if you are keeping noxious
inverts....but necessary to run it all the time? No.>
s in check? Any suggestions on using carbon in this scenario? Will adding such
supplemental filtration allow for a slightly heavier bio load?
<No, use more water changes and/or refugiums for this.>
I'm not looking to over do it. I just want to add maybe 2 fish and perhaps
some hermits, maybe another mushroom. Thanks!! I love the site!!
<Honestly what you need is better nutrient export. I wouldn't recommend a
canister or a power filter for any for any of this. Look up Hang on
Refugiums...refugiums in general....on WWM. Adam J.>
Marine Filtration Problems/Options 2/5/07
Hi,
<Hey Mark.>
Thanks for the great site.
<Welcome.>
My question is about filtration.
<Okay.>
I recently added a canister filter to my 125 gallon tank in a attempt to up
grade my system only to realize that this is not really a good option.
<Correct.>
I was considering removing all the filters and media and placing live rock in
the baskets. But it feels like a waste of electricity to run it at all.
<Well if you have LR in the display….not necessary, I would just keep it empty,
use it to run chemical media/carbon when necessary.>
I do not have a sump and all my equipment is in the main display. Is it enough
filtration to just run a good hang on protein skimmer with live rock and
power heads for water movement and if so how important is the depth of the sand
bed, I currently have 1 inch.
<Well what type of skimmer is it? Most hang on skimmers can not handle such a
large aquarium…Look into adding refugia.>
My fish are a juv. blue angel, juv. sailfin tang a juv. Naso tang and pair of
black and white percula clowns. Also, I change 10% of the water weekly.
Best regards, Mark
<To you as well, Adam J.>
SW, placement of ancillary canister filter for chemical media use
Greetings guys from sunny South Africa trust you are all well, thanks
for the great site and great advice. A quick question please I am
currently upgrading my entire set up and adding a 100 Litre sump /
refugium to my 400 Litre tank . I am currently using a small 50 litre
sump with a bag of activated carbon, my question is that I have a Fluval
filter that I am not using and want to add this directly to my main
display tank system but primary just use it for my activated carbon.
<Okay>
Would you recommend this?
<Mmm, not a bad idea, use>
Will that not be a bad thing for my refugium
as it will suck up all the beneficial creatures?
<Likely not suck many up... some will come to live in it>
Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
Werner Schoeman
<I would rig this canister filter up to run water into and out of your main
tank itself. Bob Fenner>
To Canister or Not to Canister? 7/18/05
That is the question!
<"Whether it be nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous
water changes...">
Thank you in advance for any guidance you can provide.
I've learned so much from your site since locating it several months ago. I
started with a 55 gal. FOWLR last Aug. then purchased a stocked 125 gal. in
April of this year with the intent of upgrading and transferring most of my 55
into the 125. I currently have approx. 150-200lb. of LR, a AquaC Remora Pro
(no sump), a Whisper power filter with Chemi-pure, and four Maxi-jet 1200's for
water movement. Livestock includes a mated pair of false Perculas, Yellow
Tang, Naso Tang (I know he will eventually outgrow--came with the 125 tank),
Royal Gramma, Coral Beauty, Mandarin Dragonet, assorted snails and a few hermit
crabs, Button Polyps, Finger Leather Coral, and Green Star polyps. I do not
wish to do a full reef and will not be adding anything for a while. I do not
have room for a sump at this time and have been considering an Eheim 2028 or
2250
canister filter to replace the Whisper--mainly for mechanical/chemical
filtration and increased circulation. Would you recommend doing this?
<Mmm, am a huge fan of Eheim in general, their canister filters (and pumps) in
particular, but I would opt to add another large hang on filter here actually...
the canister would be nice in that it's quiet, efficient in biological and
mechanical filtration, but they're a pain to service on most marine systems...
and can cause troubles if not serviced quite often (like weekly)>
My nitrates
are 0 and I understand canister filters can raise this--does this still occur
if I don't use their biological material?
<Mmm, there are other media that can be used to discount overdriven
nitrification>
Any recommendations you can give
are much appreciated!
Diana Miller
<You have mine here, and all of outs on WWM. Bob Fenner>
Re: Beginner Seahorse Tank, on resolving conflicting advice on Canisters
10/5/05
Bob, Leslie, thank you both for your time and advice on my previous email. I've taken your advice, did more research, and have taken the plunge!
<Welcome>
I set up a 37G, foregoing the Nanocube. I have about 1/3 volume in Live Rock, Remora Pro skimmer with Mag3 pump. I got the live rock from the LFS, "mostly cured" in their words. I have a small AquaClear 20 powerhead to supplement flow, at about half capacity.
According to my research and belief, the Remora should be returning about 100 gph to the tank, and my powerhead approx 60-70 gph, I think. Was aiming for about 170-180. (37x5=185). For the seahorses to come....
I hope you can help me with the following.
(1) My guy at the LFS has been pushing me to get a Canister. I want some mechanical filter to hold carbon, and to filter particles. But it seems some people on WWM say LR and skimmer is enough and canisters are more negative (nitrate?) than positive. I'm worried about inconvenience of cleaning. On the other hand, the added water volume and carbon would be desirable, I think. Which way should I go? Canister? Powerfilter?
<I would use the latter myself... easier, cheaper to run, acquire... and does
all the two can/will do>
Is Eheim 2215 too much flow for the seahorses? I have read bigger is better, here on WWM on canisters.
<Could, would work... has a discharge spray bar....>
But I'm worried about too much flow. The LFS guy says point the water return down and I can limit influence on the flow. Or should I just ditch the entire idea and leave it with LR and skimmer?
<Up to you. Can be added later if you want>
(2) It's been about a week since I set it up, and the water is doing great (ph.8.1, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 10mg/l, spg 1.024, Ca 430). but today, I noticed a lot of the LR is starting to turn/grown rusty/orange/brown on the edges. It does not look like the pictures of BGalgae or Cyano I see on the FAQ here. No wispy hairs, just looks like... rusty fuzz. Is this natural?
<Yes>
or should I be concerned?
<Re? Read on WWM re... cycling, LR curing... Cyano... this latter is what this
mainly is>
Even the rock that has great purple coralline when I got it, is starting to turn "rusty" on the edges. On the other hand, I think there is at least a little pimple of orange sponge growing on another piece of rock that wasn't there a few days ago.
(3) My RemoraPro is foaming, but not enough to reach the container.
Do you think this is because I have nothing in the tank and there is genuinely little to skim, or because I have to tweak and skim more?
<Maybe a bit of both>
The skimmer has been running for 3 days now. I have the prefilter foam on the Mag. Should I not have this attached?
<Time for the requisite "stop obsessing" stmt. here>
(4) So far all I have in my tank is the LR, live sand, and water. I thought cycling would take longer, but last three days, I have not had any ammonia or nitrite. Am I missing something? Did I miss the cycling somehow? I can't decide what to add first - snails, etc., or some macro algae for seahorses to hitch onto (looking ahead).
Caulerpa seems to be the most available around here, and looks like something seahorses would enjoy hitching onto. But the advice on them also seem to be both extremes - easy, not easy. risk or crash.
not in the main tank (I don't have a refugium). Should I get something else? or is it ok to get Caulerpa? Should I stick with fake plants and synthetic corals for hitching posts?
<I would for now>
I am getting a bit nervous and excited to have it all set up. Thanks for your help in advance!
Hiro
<Bob Fenner>
Filter-less 1/30/06
Hi,
After my last water change, I decided to unplug my Fluval and see if the tank
can get along without it.
I have a 55 gallon tank with a remora C skimmer, 3 power heads that together
turn over approximately 700gph.
I do 5% water changes weekly. I've recently noticed a lot of brown particles on
the surface of the water.
I can't think of any reason for this but the elimination of the Fluval, which by
the way only had carbon in it.
I would be interested in your thoughts..............
Thank you
<Canister filters can be of use in many types of marine set-ups, but the use
described here is better served by simply placing the chemical filtrant in a
Dacron bag in the water flow path somewhere. I would add some
mechanical/particulate filtration however. Bob Fenner>
Canister Filter vs. Wet-Dry Filter 3/20/06
Hello, <Hi Joe - Tim answering your question today!>
I have racked my brain researching what filter I should get for my 75 gallon
tank. I plan to have a fish only saltwater tank with no invertebrates.
Despite the internet research, the 4 books I've read and the local fish
stores - I can't decide. The wet-dry seems to be the best, but at double the
price. The canister seems to be the economical choice but will it be enough?
The research I have done leads me to believe that a fish only tank will be
ok with a canister filter but if I add invertebrates then I'll need a
wet-dry filter. Please let me know how far off I am. <Joe - please read this and
the links on this page for all the information that you seek
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/filtration/marineFiltr.htm >
Should I get a protein skimmer too? <You should definitely get a protein
skimmer, irrespective of whether you opt for a fish only or full reef system. Do
research skimmers before making your purchase as there are considerable
differences in quality with correspondingly minor differences only in price!>
Thank you in advance for you time. < Always a pleasure - I do hope that I have
been of some help!>
Respectfully,
- Joe
Canister vs. Refugium...And Winna' by TKO in the First round is - 03/09/2006
Hi Bob,
<Josh actually, but hello just the same.>
I was reading some FAQ yesterday and noticed that in a particular question you
recommended the removal of a canister filter to assist denitrification. I was
wondering if you could give me your opinion of whether I should swap my canister
filter for a refugium containing Chaetomorpha algae.
<I'd say absolutely.>
My specifications are: 850 Litre tank; Wet/dry mini reef with Skimmer, Eheim
2218 Canister filter.
<Did you just say wet/dry? Hmm...may be the answer to your question.>
My nitrates are too high. About 40-50ppm, and this is what I am aiming to
reduce.
<And rightly so. I'd look into removing both the wet/dry and canister here
(eventually). Are you using LR? How much? You can plan this system to take care
of itself, with diligence on your part.>
So what will I lose/gain by doing this?
<All posted...repeatedly.>
Thanks
Joe.
<I know it's not definitive, but so it goes. Your help lies in
understanding/embracing a filtration methodology. It becomes easier as you read
about each. Remember...don't buy the cup holder if you don't need it. - Josh>
Canister poss. addn. to a F and anemone WLR 5/9/06
Hi Crew - I have a couple of questions for you today. First, some
useful info: I have a mixed reef 74gal reef ready oceanic tank with a 30gal
sump.
I have converted both holes in the overflow box to drains and have return
via hard PVC from the opposite corner of the tank. I am using a LARGE Iwaki
MD70RLT for the return (I know this may be "too much flow") operating at
about 6 feet head pressure. The return pump also runs a skimmer and a
chiller. I have over 100lbs of LR. My tank is about 2-3 years old and has
been relatively trouble free until recently. NO3 levels are below 10ppm,
NO2 and ammonia are ~0. My phosphate test kit reads zero.
Problem/Question 1: I recently upgraded to this larger pump and because the
flow through the sump is so high, it is hard to keep filter floss in place
(as you might expect). I am stuck with this pump however and rather like
the flow in the tank. However, I have recently had my first algae explosion
which I think is due to inadequate particulate filtration.
<And likely the "natural" aging of your hard substrates, loss of
"bio-diversity"... Please search, read on WWM re... I would switch out a bit
of the substrate and LR>
I use RO/DI water always, feed very little (a small cube every 3 days or
so), replace light bulbs fairly frequently (pc), and do frequent (enough)
water changes.
So now, I am considering adding a canister filter inline between the return
pump and tank (after protein skimmer) to help remove some of the particulate
matter. I plan to clean the filter weekly/biweekly with water changes. Can
you recommend a quality canister that can accommodate this type of flow and
pressure?
<There are a few... a fave is the "Nu-Clear" line... for their size, decent
engineering, flexibility... though still a pain to open, keep clean...>
Also, do you see any major problems with this thinking, so long as filter is
cleaned frequently - other recommendations?
<... a few... diverting some part of the water flow into a "closed-loop",
getting a larger sump, re-orienting/baffling the present flow/doing away
with the floss and making the sump more into a refugium... with concomitant
modifications there>
Problem 2 which may/may not be associated with above problem: I have
recently been noticing that I am losing Turbo snails like crazy. I have a
number of Turbos and Astraea. The astrea seem to be doing ok, but I keep
finding dead Turbos. The only thing that I can think of is that I have
recently begun using a pH buffer as my pH is always hovering around 7.9 due
to DI/RO use.
<Mix these adjuncts in with the new water, well in advance of its use>
I have never been a fan of additives but thought my tank may appreciate the
higher pH (although, I have never noticed any problems over
the last 3 years with the lower pH). I don't keep hard corals, so I have
never worried about Ca levels. Could reduced Ca levels due to increasing
alkalinity be causing this?
<Yes>
Since raising the pH, I have a bubble tip anemone that I have had for years
that is now much smaller and not expanding its tentacles nor eating. Hence,
I have stopped using the additive and noticed that the tentacles seem to be
much longer and it is eating again. All other inverts and fish seem to be
fine - minus the snails. I know I'm probably missing something.
Sorry for the length, and always - thank you for your great help!
Peter
<Thank you for writing so clearly, thoroughly. As mentioned, do change out
part of the hard substrates, mix supplements in with the change water in
advance. I do suspect that a good deal of your issues here are resultant
from a loss of both ready biomineral reserve (from the substrates becoming
less soluble based in their exposure, make-up), and the reactionary use of
the buffer. I would read through the sections on WWM re Refugiums, make
modifications to the present or additional sump, and not likely add a
canister filter mechanism here. Too much flow restriction,
maintenance/induced troubles likely. Bob Fenner>
Ammonia Spike After Power Outage.. canister filter danger
7/2/06
Hi,
<Hello there>
Thank you for your excellent site. I'm a former fresh water hobbyist turned
salt water since Oct. of last year. Your site has been a huge help in the
last year. I have always found ample information without having to write but
have experienced my first major problem. I was hoping for a second
opinion on my plan of action to deal with this. My livestock include one
sailfin tang (I know he'll need a bigger tank and will provide for him), 2
clarkii clowns (mated pair), one blue damsel, one red knobbed starfish, one
banded serpent star (a brown w/ darker brown striped brittle star not sure
if that's the correct name as I've never found his exact pic on your site),
<There are many such species>
3 blue legged hermits, a cleaner shrimp, and live rock with various little
hitchhikers.
I have a 72 gallon, hex tank, that has been running for almost 9 months. It
cycled well last year and I thought that I had made it through the flooding
in the area that had shut the power off several times without trouble. I
discovered this morning I was wrong. My ammonia level was slightly elevated
(normally it is 0, nitrite, and nitrate zero, pH 8.2, temp around 72) this
morning it was 0.25 ppm for ammonia. I found out my magnum 350 was the problem.
<For other readers this is a canister filter... would "go anaerobic" with
cessation of power/flow>
Although it had come back on after the power returned it wasn't primed and
therefore never was really working. Like I said I'm a beginner
since my fresh water always had hang on whisper filters.
<And these are hang-on power filters... open to the air>
So now I know that I've got to check that when the power goes off. I got the
350 running, but stupid me over looked that the little water left in the intake
and return ubing had gone bad. It caused my ammonia to spike to 1.0 ppm. I was horrified.
So I added the recommended dose of ammo-lock 2 as an emergency stop gap after
doing a 25% water change. I plan to do another 25%water change in two days.
<Any ammonia will hopefully be gone before this>
I will also stop by the LFS to pick up some stress zyme to add after the next
water change. I thought that that may offer some help to replace
any bacteria harmed from this large a disturbance in the cycle (I had vacuumed
the sand, changed out some of the decor, and changed out the filter
media before I turned on the filter and sent that horrible water into the tank).
<Yes, best to vent initially...>
I will continue to test and do changes as needed to keep the ammonia, etc in
control. Does this seem a good plan?
<Yes... though, as stated, likely all will be rectified in short order on its
own>
I had been planning to add some more live rock, would now be a good time to do
so?
<Not for a few weeks>
I feel like an idiot for not realizing the filter wasn't moving water and then
letting that water into the tank.
<Happens... a common mistake.>
Soon after I set the tank up my father was diagnosed with cancer and ten days
later my father in law had a heart attack. Things are only starting to get back
to normal so I'm not as observant as I should be with the tank.
<Good that you recognize these influences, events... Even better that you are
able to keep all in perspective. In a/the grand course of things, the aquarium
is "small potatoes"... Put emphasis where emphasis lies>
Sorry for the long email, I was trying to give all the needed info. Thanks for
all the help and hard work.
-Ali
<Thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner>
DSB Canister Filter? - 07/24/06
Hello,
<<Howdy>>
I just started the fish keeping hobby and I established a 90 gallon reef tank in
my living room.
<<neat!>>
While doing research I came across the process of denitrification.
<<Okay>>
I came to understand that Nitrate filters are not reliable.
<<Mmm, probably not so much "not reliable" as "fiddly"...requiring constant
attention/adjustment to optimize their usage>>
Instead, I read that a DSB could be very effective at reducing Nitrates.
<<Indeed>>
Well the thing is, I don't want to add a deep layer of sand in my
display tank, and since I can't get a sump (there's no space under the tank) I
came up with an idea that might seem weird: Could I apply a thick layer of sand
in an empty canister filter to act as a DSB filter?
<<Mmm, no...aside from not being a large enough volume to be of benefit,
pressurizing/running the filter will cause the water to be "forced" through the
entire volume of sand. This will defeat the denitrification process as there
will be no "stratification" of the sand bed with the varying levels of oxygen
allowing the different classes of bacteria to form/populate...all of which are
part of/necessary to the process of denitrification>>
I imagine it will fulfill the role of a sump.
<<Not in my opinion>>
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
<<Since a sump is out of the question, you might wish to look in to the addition
of a "hang-on" style refugium in which to place the sand bed. Another option
would be if you have room "over" the tank to place a large (salt) bucket
half-full of sand with water pumped up to the bucket and allowed to gravity
drain back to the tank from a bulkhead fitting placed just below the lip of the
bucket>>
Also, I live next to the sea, where the sand in the coastal areas is extra-fine
(which I read is preferable for DBS). Could I use this sand? or is it a bad
idea?
<<Best not to use it due to the possibility of introducing pollutants/pests>>
One last question. Concerning macroalgae, how effective are they at
denitrification?
<<Not so much "denitrification...is a different type of host/environment,
performs a different function from the deep sand bed...yet still useful through
regular harvesting for removal of organic compounds (including nitrate) as part
of their nutrient uptake>>
Also is there a problem to add those in my display tank (I'm particularly
interested in red macroalgae)?
<<Can be done, though some species can be very invasive (e.g. - Caulerpa sp.)
while others might be quickly consumed (e.g. - Gracilaria) by some fish species
(e.g. - Tangs/Rabbitfish)
Sorry for the long read.
<<No worries mate>>
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
<<I hope I have>>
Thank you.
Mohammad
<<Regards, EricR>>
Filter dilemma... Lions and canisters, no my! 8/24/06
Hi there! I've been asking lots of questions and every time your answers
were more than helpful, thank you so much! I have a filter question this
time... I am planning to set up a tank for a Lionfish (Pterois radiata).
It's a 65 gal,
<Will be too small...>
I already have the tank, the lights, etc. Actually, I only need the filter to
start the whole thing. I know that Lions need a damn good
filtration, so I was wondering, what filter should I use? There are so many
choices, and not enough info...
<Lots of both available>
I was looking at these two models, but if you have any other suggestions for
this kind of setup, it would be more than appreciated... anyway, there are the
two choices I have for the moment:
- Pentair Aquatics canister filters (separate units, one mechanical, on
chemical...)
<Nah...>
- Eheim Professionel II (more expensive, but I heard that it's a good
choice...)
<Is better, but not the route I would go either... Canisters aren't generally
"appropriate technology" for marine systems...>
I'm quite confused, and I'd really appreciate some help here! Thank you very
much!! BTW, the Radiata will be the only fish in the tank... Merci infiniment!
Ivan
<... Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marcanistfltfaqs.htm
and here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lionsysfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
- Filter Media -
hello to all, <Greetings, JasonC here...>
As I've read through thousands of your very very helpful FAQs, I see that it is
mentioned that the bio material in wet/dry's are the cause for a nitrate
factory. I am currently running a Fluval 404 on my salt-going to
reef-tank and I'm running those little BioMax cylinders and active
carbon. Would it be a wise move to remove the bio-material and just
run carbon and poly filter in my canister filter? <Not using this canister
filter, no. If a full-blown reef is what you want to do, it would be wiser to
consider entirely new filtration gear to replace the Eheim.> I've got a 65g,
w/ 60lbs of liverock and protein skimmer. <Might be time for a
sump/refugium.>
Thanks,
Jason
Surfs up!
<Cheers, J -- >
Eheim filters (and saltwater filtration)
Hi I have a 72 gallon tank with two damsels, a Prizm pro 300 protein skimmer, a
power head and a Fluval 304.I noticed that my nitrates were a surprising 100 so
I called my LFS last week and they told me that my Fluval wasn't good enough for
my 72 so I bought a Eheim 2217 with the nitrate removing media and I noticed
that you don't really support canister filters. Do you think that the Eheim will
bring down my nitrates because I really want to try an emperor angel that I've
had my eye on for quite some time now. thank you
<Mmm, well, I really like Eheim products in general, and do use their
canister filters (on my freshwater tanks)... But for a tank of this size and
type, you'd be better of revisiting your options and brands. I would upgrade
your skimmer... and look into other filter modes. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/filtration/marineFiltr.htm
and on... and on! through the many FAQs and article files linked (in blue, at
top). See you in a while. Bob Fenner>
Supplemental Filters
Dear Bob and Staff,
I stir things up a bit on the live rock with a turkey baster about once a week.
A lot of debris flies around during the process. My question is since I am only
running a wet/dry filter with two overflows. Would it be wise to buy a canister
or diatom filter and maybe use it once a week to pull floating debris out of the
tank instead of hoping it will make its way to the overflows? <Hello Jim. Yes,
it would be a good idea. I use a Magnum HOT for this purpose. It is versatile
in that you can use the micron cartridge for water polishing, or the media
canister for whatever. James (Salty Dog)
Thank you!
Wet Dry Filter, actually... canister
I currently have a wet dry filter setup on a 150 gallon saltwater tank. It is one of the systems that you need to start the intake yourself by
siphoning water through the tubes. Anyway my question is this, can I switch over to a
Canister filter? They seem to be much quieter and easier to manage. A friend of mine has a very nice saltwater setup in his office
and he has an Eheim canister filter. I only bought the wet/dry because the salesperson told me
that's what I needed. My wet dry has been set up for about 8 months now.. Can I switch to a
canister filter? If so what kind would you recommend and what do I need to do to switch without affecting my
fish?
<There are few canister filters out there (regardless of claims) that can effectively handle a tank that large. You don't mention the use of live rock so the wet/dry is a must for denitrification. The wet/dry also does a very good job in exchanging gas/oxygen with the water. As far as easier to manage, the wet/dry in my opinion is easier.
Canister filters do need to be cleaned weekly with new filtering pad replacement. James (Salty Dog)> Thank You
100 gallon tank, mainly filtration...
Tank goal: To keep corals, mushrooms, Caulerpa, and slightly delicate fish like angels, etc. Yes Bob, I have a little more than 500 pc watts to keep those corals and algae growing.
<Okay>
I have bought a 100 gallon tank which has been sitting around for several weeks but I just can't decide on what type of filtration to use. I thought I had it all figured out but every fish store I go to disagrees with my idea.
<As long as you agree with yourself... that's all that matters>
I am planning to use an Eheim 2060 (500gph) with a large skimmer and plenty of live rock (60-80 lbs). If I ever find a simple, easy to understand sump system I may at sometime in the future add a sump but that probably will not happen immediately unless you think it is a necessity.
<Good attitude... or at least we're in agreement>
Four sales people at different shops and even Petwarehouse have all said "Get a wet dry" but I don't want the added problems that are cataloged on your website.
<A sump is a sump... you don't need a wet-dry... I wonder how much money these folks might make by selling such off the shelf systems...?>
These sales people insist that the Eheim won't be enough filtration because: 1) it won't turn the tank over as many times as I will need for a quasi-reef/fish tank,
<The live rock is/will be the primary filter...>
2) gph on canisters decrease every day the canister is used so the gph is constantly decreasing,
<Not so much with a properly packed Eheim... I speak from decades of using them>
3) one canister will only take the water from one end of the tank therefore not cycling as much overall water is needed, and other similar complaints.
<Uh, the tank only has two ends... and you can/should use submersible pumps, powerheads for more circulation, aeration...>
I want a simple, low maintenance filtration system that is effective (performance and cost) as well as operating quietly and that will be difficult for me to misuse.
<Your insight astounds me!>
Eheim with live rock and a good skimmer sounds like a winner to me but no one else seems to agree.
<Umm, I do.>
I have read lots of info and at this point and have resigned myself to taking whatever your
suggestions) is.
<My advice is, of course to only let only your conscience be your guide... You're on the/a correct path my friend. Bob Fenner>
Thanks once again, David Dowless
Adding another tank
Hello again Mr. Fenner,
My brother-(who I brought into this great hobby/lifestyle) is remodeling
his house & getting a 180 gal tank for his house & I'm jealous!
<We should start a club>
So, now I'm considering another 50g to set on the other side of my new
Sony 55 digital TV.
<Wowzah! I'm tired of squinting at our thirty inch fossil cathode-ray type!>
My existing tank is a 50 w/2 Fluval 304's & think I
will set up the new tank the same way as the existing. My question is,
can I use one of the existing Fluvals along w/some of the live rock & sand
the shorten or eliminate the cycle process???
<Absolutely>
I would buy 2 new Fluvals
and use one in the existing tank and one in the new. What do you think?
<Sounds good>
My brother is actually coming to Las Vegas this weekend & we are going
for all you can eat sushi sat night, you are welcome to join us.
<Ah, no alligator tears for me, will be diving, photographing in the Bahamas>
I'll stop tempting you after this.
<Wanna bet?>
If you are ever in Tustin, ca., definitely stop at a sushi bar called
Tommy's-I have people here in L.V. that make trips to so cal to eat there.
Thanx again for your assistance.
<And you for yours. Bob Fenner>
Re: Adding another tank
Mr. Fenner,
I live in L.V., I don't bet!
If my brother talks me into a room divider 150 or 180, can I still use
the Fluval, sand & rock to kick start the system?
<Yes>
I would probably go
w/an under stand system, drilled thru the bottom & not have canister
type filter. Can I still use the "macaroni" from my Fluval?
<Yes>
Have a terrific time in the Bahamas and Thanx again.
If you go to Tommy's, have a Galaxy Roll. The best.
Chat w/you soon
Craig
<Yum! Bob Fenner>
Canister filter question
Dear Bob,
<You got Steven pro today.>
I love your website, it has been a great help in learning how to set up my saltwater tank. My tank has been going for about six months. It is a 12 gallon tank (one of the ones from Eclipse) that I have
taken the hood off of and put a power compact light and a glass top for better lighting on. I have about 18-20lbs of live rock and about an inch of live sand as a substrate. I wanted to add a protein skimmer so I bought the
Prizm skimmer as I read on your site that it was a good one for a small tank. I have a few polyps and one medium mushroom. I also have two clown fish that are fairly small. My levels are pretty good pH 8.1,
nitrite 0, nitrate 10, ammonia 0, alkalinity 4meq/l, KH 12 and I add the standard trace elements
Kalkwasser, strontium, coral vital, iodine. My question is that now that I have the protein skimmer I have to get rid of my filter that was hanging off the back of the tank because I have run out of room. A friend of mine said he would give me his Eheim professional II 2026 and all I would need to do is buy the substrate for the inside. This is a good canister filter that would solve my space problem, but is it too much for my small tank? In the next year I would like to move my small tank into a larger tank (probably a 30 or 50 gallon) so I thought this would be a good filter to grow with. Next question, should I use all of the recommended substrates
(Ehfisubstrat, Ehfimech, 3pads) so that it becomes a biological filter in addition to my live rock? I asked at a store and they said that usually in a small tank you would change the pads every 2 months and every 6 months you should rinse the substrates in salt water. He said that it was okay to let most of your bacteria go to the filter and that in the end this would be
beneficial for the tank. Does this all sound correct to you?
<I have a suggestion for you that is going to sound weird, but it is what I would do. I would get the
Eheim and not put any media in it. Your 12 gallon tank is pretty small to start with. Once you added the rock and sand, it probably only has about 8 gallons of water in it. You are not thinking of adding any more fish than your two clowns, are you? I would use the
Eheim for additional circulation (~250
gph) and water holding capacity (maybe a gallon). Your rock and sand will provide you with enough bacterial surface area for your two fish.>
Thanks for your help. -Pete
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>
Eheim 2213
can I use an Eheim 2213 to filter a marine tank. I own one and it is
the ultimate fresh water filter, I would think it would be just as good
at filtering saltwater, I am converting my 55 gallon and I have in tank canister
and Eheim canister. there is more than enough water turnover, or is my Eheim useless.
<not useless at all... a very fine filter that can indeed be used as your primary in a marine system...but not the only filter. Some live rock and/or a secondary mechanical filter will be necessary and give you great peace of mind with your investment in the magically beautiful marine animals. My very strong advice is to add as much live rock as you can afford. It is so efficient as a source of filtration that in some cases it can actually outperform and replace your Eheim. Still keep the
Eheim for carbon and gross filtration>
thanks Sam
<best regards, Anthony>
Re: Filter change
Hi all-
Thank you for the reply to my filter question. As a follow-up, will
switching from a hang-on filter to a canister make a significant difference?
<most canister filters are larger than hang-ons and may very well be more effective by virtue of
their size. Pick a good brand like Eheim that has been around for decades and is tried and true>
I am currently running a 55 gallon saltwater aquarium with about 30 pound of live rock, a CPR Bak Pak skimmer, an undergravel filter, and a Whisper hang on filter. Basically, it's a FOWLR (plus one starfish) with a
Cardinalfish, Koran angel, yellow tang, two striped damsels, and moon wrasse.
<hmmm... do maintain that UG filter diligently>
The biggest reason for my considering a filter change is the frequency with which I'm changing the filter pads, sometimes twice a week.
<either you are feeding WAY too much food or your skimmer has not been adjusted to collect good skimmate DAILY or a combination of both. A canister filter is not going to solve your problem... only put a bandage on a symptom>
I know a canister filter requires maintenance as well, but I wonder if I'm harming water quality by having a filter with less filtering ability (although water parameters test fine).
<if you get the canister, do modify with a course foam block (like from a Hagen
AquaClear filter) on the intake strainer. Rinse and reuse this frequently and this will
dramatically extend the life of the media in your canister>
Thanks in advance for all your help. All good wishes, Daryl Klopp
<best regards, Anthony>
New saltwater setup
Bob;
I just happened upon your website today and am astounded
not only by the fact that it is so comprehensive in
information, but that you make yourself available for
questions from newbies by myself. :-) I am grateful!
<You are welcome my friend. Given a similar background and desires, you would likely do the same>
At the risk of boring you to tears with simple newbie
questions ....
I've purchased and read your book, "The Conscientious
Marine Aquarist," and have found it to be extremely
useful. However, I'm a bit confused by the conflicting
information I've read on the Internet (of course) regarding
the usefulness of canister filters in marine aquaria.
<Different strokes... canisters can be useful adjuncts... for added biological filtration, handy places to launch chemical filtrants... Not a "one item does it all" type of filtration however... and do have some drawbacks (tendency to clog, generate abundant nitrates... inconvenience of cleaning...>
I'm about to set up my first saltwater tank, and
have purchased the following, upon the advice of
my LFS:
Standard 55gal tank
Fluval 404 canister filter
SeaClone protein skimmer
standard hood setup with 2 24" 15-watt Triton fluorescent tubes
40 lbs aragonite reef sand
My intent is to begin with a fish-only-with-live-rock
setup. After some time, I'll probably also add
some hardy invertebrates.
My LFS recommended that I fill the canister filter with
biological filtration media, only.
<One route to go>
I've since read many disparaging comments on the Internet
regarding canister filters being "nitrate factories,"
and I'm getting the impression that I may be better off
upgrading my lighting and, after the nitrogen cycle has
completed, removing the canister filter and having only
the skimmer, and live rock for denitrification.
<All valid points that might be instituted.>
If I keep the canister filter, will my fish and
invertebrates be doomed to unhealthy nitrate levels
unless I do water changes on an incredibly frequent
basis?
<You'd be better off with a "sump type" filter arrangement.>
Some people on the Internet even go so far
as to state that a canister filter and live rock work
at "cross-purposes" ...
<Actually they're more complimentary... in simple terms of aerobic and anaerobic de/nitrification...>
Any advice?
<Plenty... at this juncture, do keep studying, evaluating this apparently conflicting information (you will find it actually is not so... much more like the real universe, things are better/worse "depending"...) until you can sort through your choices... Some substantial part of the fun and learning from involvement in our interests is the personal growth of discerning opinion and fact. You will see. Bob Fenner>
Thank you for your time.
- Dave Clark
Extra filter pump for Fluval 404
Hi Bob,
My present filtering is done by a Fluval 404. My problem is I moved the
Fluval behind a wall a way from the tank. Now my water flow is very low, due
to the distance tank.
<Actually... practically speaking, this distant placement should make little difference (the pressure in the intake line should offset the "head" resistance in the discharge side... unless it's a very long way (tens of feet let's say) or you've reduced the tubing diameter... Do look for "kinks" in the line... restrictions through valving, filter media/packing, fittings (I would remove any "spray bars" for instance.>
My question is I just purchased a Mag 7 to help the
Fluval with pumping. Should I place the Mag before the Fluval or after. I
also have a UV sterilizer after the Fluval. The Mag 7 is rated @ 700gph and
the Fluval is much less. I don't want to damage the Mag or Fluval with this
increase in pump volume. Any help would be great!!
<I am very leery here of telling you to try and do something I myself would not do... If a centrifugal pump were added, it would be placed ahead of the restrictive filter (such pumps "push" by design, engineering, not "pull"... However there may be a real danger in "popping" the filter canister, O-ring... I would NOT add a pump here... Let's chat over some other possibilities... like adding a sump/refugium to your system and using the new pump there... or moving the canister filter closer to the system... or both. Bob Fenner>
Thank you
Jamie
Re: Extra filter pump for Fluval 404
Thanks Bob for the suggestions, I would say I have about 12 - 15 feet of
hosing round trip drop & rise for hoses would be about 3 ½ to 4 feet).
<Good input, once again the height is of little consequence... as the water is "pushed" as much as it is "pulled" with the lines originating and ending at the same approximate level (relative to the mass of this planet.>
The
intake side, is the Fluval intake pipe that comes from manufact. The hose
travels down the back side of the tank to a bulkhead in the wall. I live in
a Bi-level house with a crawl space under the steps. Fluval & UV are placed
here for easy access.
<Oh! The induced drag through the sterilizer may be significant... could be a/the deciding factor... possibly might be worth experimenting here... cutting the hose between the canister and U.V. and inserting the Mag 7 there...>
The return side is configured in a similar manner with
another bulk head in the wall returning to the tank the cleaned water. The
new hoses are ¾ ,
<Is this 3/4"? I hope so. Can't make out the tiny print>
I think the Fluval hoses are only ½, which I don't use
anymore. I thought maybe the Mag 7 after the UV to help draw the water back
up to the tank.
<Not made to "draw" but to push... hard on the pump... may cavitate badly if placed to "suck"... Bob Fenner>
Thanks
Jamie
Marine set-up query
Hi Anthony
<cheers>
Sorry, one last thing. I checked my 2ft tank for fit in my 4ft cabinet last night and had bit of a
thought upon seeing the sump and Fluval 404 together. Could I run the 404 intake hose from the sump and use it to pump the sump
water back up to the tank ?
<no my friend. This great little filter was not designed to handle that sort of head pressure. You will need a dedicated pump for the purpose>
Cheers, Scott
<kindly, Anthony>
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