what is the maximum current (ft/min) in a refugium? – 10/10/08
To the crew:
Thank you for your many FAQ's which have been most helpful.
<Welcome>
I am now seeking a quantitative answer to the question; what is the maximum current in ft/min through a refugium. Posting to the BB has not resulted in an answer so I turn to the Crew for guidance. The answer could also be
couched in terms of gph if the dimensions of the refugium are given or in volume turns per hour. Any definitive information is appreciated.
Tomg3reef
<As general statements go, "not so much flow" such that whatever life, substrate et al. components are tossed about too much really... Likely 5-10 f/min... I give a rule of thumb to folks of oh so many volumes per hour... not many, usually... but with the use of baffles, perhaps subverting most of flow around or past the "bio area" itself, rates can be quite high. Bob Fenner>

Sump/Refugium Flow Rate Question 10/4/08
I am in the process of setting up a 300 gal. tank with a separate three compartment sump/refugium.  I am still in the planning stages (actually, I only have the tank so far) and have read a lot about the benefits of a refugium and DSB. 
<Many, definitely worth doing.>
My plan is to build a 55 gal  baffled refugium (L 60” x  H 18” x W18” with ~12” high baffles) with the middle 24” being the refugium with a 5” DSB.  Since the tank has duel overflows/returns, I am planning to run two  Iwaki MD40RLXT pumps for the return. 
<Are these the typical prebuilt overflows? If so do read http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ovrflowboxfaq4.htm and the linked files. The industry’s “reef ready” tanks are rather disappointing in overflow capabilities for the most part.>
These pumps are rate at 1,200 gph which, I assume, will translate to about 2,000 gph after normal power loss due to the trip to the tank.  My question is if this rate of flow will be too much for a refugium in which I hope to keep some pods, macroalgae, cleaners etc? 
<No, this will be fine for this size and volume. The livestock can handle it.>
If so, do you have any thoughts on a better way to do this?
<You could run your skimmer and refugium compartments on opposite ends, with each overflowing into a middle pump return compartment. This will allow the refugium to see only half the flow, although I would not worry too much about this criteria. The main advantage to this configuration is that it allows you to increase the water level (and volume) in the refugium area. The downside is a bit tougher plumbing with two external return pumps.>
Thanks,
Michael
<Welcome, Scott V.>

Return Pump vs. Powerheads for system flow 8/22/08
Hey Guys,
<Larry>
I moved last year and had to sell my 125G reef tank (sad day for me). I have been in serious withdrawal ever since. My beautiful wife surprised me on my 40th birthday by purchasing a new 120G (48" x 24") aquarium and stand to re-kindle my obsession.
<I’ll bet!>
The tank is an AGA with dual Megaflow overflows. I see all over the FAQ's that the realistic flow rate through the two 1" bulkheads will only get me half of the published rating of 2x600GPH. Obviously, that total flow rate is insufficient for a 120G reef tank.
<Yes, sad that the holes are not simply larger.>
The overflows will feed a 30G DIY sump located in the furnace room behind the wall. The sump will house a skimmer and heaters. I plan on eventually adding a separate refugium above the sump with water pumped up from the sump and overflowing back into the sump.
<Consider running an overflow line from the tank to the refugium, then overflow into the sump. This will save you the use of one pump.>
Ignoring overall system flow for the moment, will a properly sized return pump (500-600GPH after head loss) be sufficient to support the skimmer and a refugium?
<To support the tank, yes. You will need to add supplemental flow as you mention below. The problem with this overflow setup is it leaves you no margin for safety. Running the lines at capacity means water on the floor if a line gets even partially blocked. If you are at all comfortable with DIY, consider drilling the tank for larger throughputs. You can drill the rear pane of glass inside the existing boxes, substantially increasing your flow capacity while keeping the tank looking the same.>
I am considering using a number of Koralia powerheads to get the overall water movement in the tank up to a reasonable level. I like the idea of the diffused flow generated by these style powerheads vs. strong jets from the return lines. Is there a downside to doing this vs. increasing the flow through the sump?
<Only aesthetics. There are many upsides though. Less power use, better flow characteristics, usually quieter, etc. >
I've read various suggestions for increasing flow, including using the 3/4" return line bulkheads as additional overflows, or even drilling more or larger overflows. I'd like to avoid doing these if possible.
<Okay.>
Also, is there any benefit to draining the 1" bulkheads into larger PVC pipes(1.5")? I know it won't increase the max flow rate but will it help with noise?
<Not really, any many cases doing this will increase the noise with the water beating around inside the larger pipe. Most noise associated with these overflows comes from siphoning issues/running past capacity.>
I plan on running 2 separate lines down to the sump. If I can stick with 1" lines, the holes through the wall will be a little smaller.
<1” will be fine.>
I am excited about getting the tank up and running, but I don't want to make any short-sighted decisions that will impact things later on. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Larry
<Welcome, congratulations on the new setup, Scott V.>

Refugium Overflow/Plumbing 8/11/08
Good afternoon Crew,
<Hello>
I just have a couple questions about a refugium I'd like to set up. My tank is a 20 gallon long variety with 1 inch of the Aragamax sand. I have about 15-20lbs of live rock, 80 watts of PC and regular Fl. lighting. There's 2 Black and White Clown Fish and a Randall's Shrimp Goby. I do have a few smaller moderate light requiring corals and a number of inverts. I'd like to add a 10 gallon refugium with Macro algae and additional live rock for the purposes of: increased stability, better pH buffering, more biological filtration, and less temp/chemical/etc. fluctuation. I don't really need to grow pods or anything like that, although I wouldn't mind if they grew. The only thing I'll be adding is more corals and inverts. No fish.
Here's my question: I do have everything (hardware, at least) except for a way to get the water from the main display tank to the 'fuge. I'd like to keep the 10 gallon tank directly behind my display if at all possible. As for my design, I'll have the first section keep the skimmer (Tunze DOC Nano in tank variety) and will be baffled so it will keep the water at a steady level. The second section will have the sand, rock, and macroalgae, while the third will keep a return pump. (Probably a Maxi Jet 600 or 900). I'd like to keep an Aqua-Clear HOB filter to keep carbon and poly-filter on the back as well. My question is this:
I don't think a standard overflow would work (I don't have a drilled tank and I'm afraid the over-the-top overflows will eventually fail.)
<A hang on overflow will not work at all if one tank is directly behind the other and close to the same height. These require a drop between tanks by their design. When they are used, more than one for redundancy (even with a drilled overflow) is a good idea.>
It's too risky for me. Do you have any suggestions for this? Also, further complicating things, I'd like to keep the fuge directly behind the 20 gallon tank. Any suggestions?
<If you wish to keep it directly behind, on the same platform, you will have to drill the 20. The height difference between the tanks does not allow enough space for a hang on the back overflow. Do NOT pump back and forth between the tanks, trying to balance the flow without an overflow, you will have water on the floor in short order.>
I know I'll have to keep reading to see if I can get more answers, but any help will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks a TON! (or a Tunze?)
Eric
<Welcome, Scott V.>

Re: Refugium Overflow/Plumbing 8/11/08
Thank you Scott.
<Welcome Eric.>
I have since read a bit more about my setup (existing and proposed) and believe I could raise the refuge higher than the 20 gallon, and I could have the overflow section on the 10 gallon (would that require drilling?.. I would think so but I definitely can drill that one).
<Drilling would be the best route.>
Meanwhile, I could put the pump in the main 20 gallon display and pump that water up to the 10 gallon refuge.. The refuge doesn't have to be directly behind it.
I definitely won't be utilizing 2 pumps, that's for sure.
<Good.>
I've heard/read too many horror stories and it doesn't make logistical sense. I've been reading a lot more about this setup and about my lighting, and I think I'll be all right, but maybe you can help clarify: Would the PC and NO flour. (65 watt PC bulb and 15 watt 10,000K NO bulb) lighting be enough for a Plerogyra sinuosa and a Euphyllia ancora?
<It can be in such a shallow tank, ideally with most in the daylight spectrum.>
My tank is only about 10-12 inches top to bottom and the light fixtures are almost directly on the glass top.. Those 2 LPS would be about 6-8 inches from the actual light.
<Will be fine.>
Thanks a lot, I really appreciate all the help everyone on the team has provided!
<Welcome.>
Eric
<Scott V.>

Refugium water movement 6/27/08
Hello everyone,
<Hello!>
I have a 55G main tank and recently added a 15G refugium (total size counting outflow and inflow area), the return to the main tank is done
by a 1200 maxi jet. If i put a 400 MaxiJet in the refugium to increase the water movement, the pods will get killed by the propeller?
<Quite possibly. Certainly could cause some unwanted elimination of invertebrate macrofauna>
Will the refugium be better or not with the MaxiJet 400 in it?
<If the flow is especially prosaic, it could help- especially if you screen the intake to keep the invertebrate life out. On the other hand, relatively slow flow through macroalgae will enhance nutrient export and copepod culture>
Thanks for your help.
<No trouble>
Gerardo
<Benjamin>

Plumbing a Refugium 6/10/08
Hello,
<Art>
I have a 20 gallon long glass aquarium that sits on a stand next to but lower than my main tank, and higher than my wet/dry filter. I've been told
that it is best to feed the refugium directly from my main tank, and then let the water drain back into my wet/dry.
<The preferred method, ideally draining into the return area of your wet/dry.>
In order to accomplish this I was thinking of using two overflow boxes to move the water through the refugium.
One on the main tank to deliver water to the refugium and one on the refugium to return water to my wet/dry sump.
<Yes, you will need two overflows for this.>
Then the pump in my wet/dry to return water to my main tank. First, does this sound like a better way of
moving water than using a powerhead?
<Yes, using a powerhead will require balancing the flow, something that will fail in short order. Let gravity do the work!>
Second, if I use overflow boxes would I be able to control the amount of flow going through the refugium?
<Yes, tee the overflow above the refugium and run one section to your sump and another to the refugium. You can put a ball valve on one leg to control the flow to one or the other. Do not use a valve on both, this is a recipe for a wet floor!>
Finally, I know the overflow boxes must be capable of moving more water than my return pump or I could end up flooding my sump.
<You will flood your floor.>
My return pump is rated for 600 gph and has a 36" head at this time. I'm trying to determine if 300gph overflow boxes would be sufficient?
<If your pump is rated for 600 at 0’ then you should be fine with a 300 gph box once head height and plumbing are accounted for. If you need to you can restrict the pump output if needed to lower the flow. But, bigger is better with overflows, if you get overflows that can handle the full 600 gph you will have some safety margin. Do note that many hang on the back overflows use a single 1” bulkhead and claim 600 gph. Plan on just a bit more than 300 gph with these in the real world.>
Thanks in advance for your help. I spend a lot of
time researching here.
Art
<Welcome, keep reading, it is fun! Good luck, Scott V.>
 

Refugium/Plumbing 5/31/08 Hello Crew! <Hello Esther!> Thanks again for all the hard work you do for putting together this website! It has been a valuable resource for me. <Great! Thank you!> I am in the process of working on my second tank, but it will be my first sump. <A good, logical step forward.> The stand is built and ready to go. It will be a 30 gallon long biotope display with a 29 gallon sump/ refugium. <Nice.> After reading oodles of pages about plumbing I think I have decided to go with two 1" drains (fed by an entire length overflow box) which in reality should give me 600 gph total. <Yes, or consider one 1.5” drain. One hole, more flow (750gph+)!> Then in the sump combo, one of the drains will feed the skimmer (left side) and the other drain will feed the refugium (right side) with the pump in the middle for the return (hopefully into a closed loop with 5 output nozzles). I also am making the pressure locking sump baffles as described on your site, to help control bubble issues. Does anything seem out of whack? <The design sounds great, you are letting gravity do the work for you. Do consider fewer outputs, maybe two ½” outputs to get a dynamic flow to work with. The beauty of this is that PVC is cheap and easy to work with, so experiment to find what works for you.> Additionally, I have the sump tank already, but it will be another month or two for me to get the display tank, order drill bits from Glass-Holes, drill the tank and get it set up. Would it be of any benefit to fill the sump (without the baffles at the moment), put in some of the live rock I have been seeding from my other tank, and run the refugium for a couple months with out a display tank attached to it? <It wouldn’t hurt, could be beneficial to add an established refugium to a new tank.> I have enough extra equipment around to heat it and filter it (although I don't have a skimmer for it yet) but there wouldn't be anything but rock and, hopefully, a growing population of zooplankton to maintain anyway. Or would running it not be worth the electricity versus a long-term benefit? <There would be more of a benefit with some sand in the refugium. This will allow you to begin culturing the sandbed (if you plan on one) in the refugium and provide you with sand to help seed the main display once set up. Fact of the matter is you have to keep the rock somewhere, I see no real reason why not to keep it in its intended home.> Thanks again! <Welcome!> I am sure that I will have more questions when I actually get the display tank ready to plumb. -Esther- <No problem, we will be here. Have fun, Scott V.> Re: Refugium/Plumbing 5/31/08 Thanks Scott! <Very welcome.> I regards to the suggestion for one 1.5" hole... when reading through the plumbing pages, I read often the suggestion that two drains were better for redundancy in case one gets clogged. Does the increased water transport volume of the 1.5" drain outweigh this benefit? <A matter of opinion, but I do feel so. The larger diameter is much less likely to be clogged (it will pass most stuff, but not a large, dead fish!). We personally (at Glass-Holes.com) have people asking for a box with two 1” rather than one 1.5” bulkhead. We have actually tested, throwing different things into the tank, and the 1.5” very rarely clogs. The 1” actually clogs very easily. Fact of it is, if you run to 1” drains at over 300 gph and one clogs, you have lost the redundancy. To truly have redundancy you need to run your multiple drains at half the overall capacity!> Also with having two drains, I can feed raw water to the skimmer and raw water to the refugium, can you do this with just one drain? <Yes, just split the flow with a PVC T or Y fitting.> I thought it is best if they both got raw water? <Yes.> I also know that a lot of plumbing ends up being about person preferences as well, I just want to make sure I understand as much as I can before jumping in. <It is much personal preference. What you initially had planned if fine. I just want to make sure you know all the options open to you before you drill. The fact of it is if you intend to drill, the price difference between a (or even two) 1.5” bulkhead compared to a (or 2) 1” bulkhead is negligible. The benefit of choosing 1.5” is huge!!> -Esther <Let use know how it goes, Scott V.> Re: Refugium/Plumbing 6/2/08 Scott, Thanks again, again! Hee hee! <Very welcome!!> This is what I needed, to talk with someone who has dealt with this in real life experience. So often things look great on paper, only to not work out so well in reality. <Believe me, I have had and bought into many theories only to disprove them with actual real world testing.> I like what you have said about the 1.5" size and I will plan to go with that diameter. <Kind of the “sweet spot” for aquarium drains. Not unnecessarily huge, but provides ample flow.> You suggested possibly using two of the 1.5" drains, would this be even better or make it more quiet? <If you are still talking about 600gph, it will not really make things quieter, but will provide redundancy. > I just don't want to go into overkill in a little 30 gallon tank. <Two 1.5” drains is a bit overkill for a 30. It won’t really hurt anything, it is just a lot of plumbing behind a 30. I personally have one 1.5” on my 30 gallon tank. My main point about the drains is if a person is going to drill, why not go 1.5”? It takes just a bit more room and the cost is almost the same as 1” (actually cheaper when you consider one 1.5” can outflow two 1”).> Not that this tank doesn't deserve a little overkill, it is just that this tank is my learning experience towards a (someday) future big tank. So now I am also re-looking at the overflow box . Would you still run this along the entire back wall if there is only 1 drain? <You can, again one of those theories I no longer put too much towards after actual testing. A long overflow box is fine for surface skimming, but you only get so much return on this (law of diminishing returns, sort of). If you start out with a short box, say 4” wide and go to 8”, you will get twice the surface skimming ability (in theory). Add another 4” and you now only get a 50% increase. It is proportionally less, but it does add up to more surface skimming. My long winded point is, go with a long box if you wish, but a shorter one will work fine!> Hee hee, ok, I'll stop asking questions now. The more I learn the more I want to know, and making a mistake with the plumbing materials is one thing, but I want to get the drains drilled right because they are harder to correct (if they can be corrected at all). <There are tricks, better to err on the side of putting the holes lower, your box will ultimately set the water height.> -Esther- <Have fun, Scott V.>

120 Reef Sump/Refugium 3/8/08 I am looking to set up a 120 AGA reef tank with dual overflows. My question is I have a non drilled 210 in my garage where the back wall of my display tank is going to be located. The garage floor is 2 feet lower than the den room were I plan to put tank, I have this 210 which I can’t seem to sell I was thinking of using it for a sump/refugium for my 120. Do you think this is too large for a sump/refugium? <Absolutely not, I think it is a great idea! The bigger the better.> If not, how would you suggest setting it up ,all 4 holes in 120 be the supply to the 210 then 1"going back as return to the 120? <Yes, actually exactly as you mention. Since you are coming through a wall you have no need to run the return through the bottom of the tank. Use those return holes for some extra draining capacity. Keep in mind that each 1” bulkhead will drain 300 gph or so, with the ¾” producing 150 gph each. One 1” or even a single ¾” return will handle this flow. Happy reefing, Scott V.> 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 3/9/08 Sorry Scott, I have two kids on my shoulders. <No problem, thank you for resending.> How would you set up the 210 as a sump/refugium, would I tie in the four drains? Should I bring them down under the tank into 1 one 1"pipe like a manifold <No, this will make it effectively a 1” drain, each line needs to be run separate or combined into a 1 ½” or even 2” line.> with the one 1" pipe going through wall to sump? <No, larger or more.> Should I drop it into the left side of tank with a skimmer? <I would run half to the skimmer and half to the refugium, with both chambers overflowing into the common sump return area.> I then was going to use 3 baffles 1"-2" apart for bubbles then into a middle area were return pump would be, the right side being the refugium. Basically the sump and refugium would drain into center were return pump would be. Also, what size return pump would I use, <Something that will yield 700-800 gph or less at your head height will be my choice. This will allow a little extra capacity in your overflows.> and skimmer thanks hope this is a little better, John!! <As far as skimmers my faves are the ASM or EuroReef lines, something along the lines of the G3/RS180 for this system. Hope this helps, Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 3/9/08 Thanks a whole lot here, would you convert the 3/4 from the bottom of ?tank to a 1" so there all 1",then tie into a 2" manifold under tank? <You can, but running each directly to the 2” as is will work fine.> Are you saying then reduce to 1" through the wall into sump or keep it 2"? <Definitely do not reduce through the wall or anywhere else.> Or are ?you saying each over flow use a "y" 1" to 3/4" to 1"1/2 or 2" through the wall, ?doing this for both over flows then I would have two 1"1/2 or 2" ?supplies going through wall to sump. <This would be an even better way to go, having two separate lines in case one fails.> I hope this makes sense to you and ?thank you so much for your time and patience. <It does, you’re welcome.> I’m using your web site as a ?model first sump with skimmer spilling into refugium then spilling into ?return bay how does this sound to you!? <This will work fine, have fun, Scott V.> Re2: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 3/9/08 Scott, I’m checking your web site and a little more confused ref to ?sump/refuge. I might of asked you already but I was wondering if the inlet ?side of sump should be for skimmer then would you spill over to return ?pump in middle and refuge on far right spilling into center right? <Was mentioned in our previous correspondence. This is my preferred setup, it allow a greater volume in the refugium, but either configuration will work.> Now I ?have it going skimmer to refuge to return pump. Would you "t"off supply ?to skimmer with valve to control flow to refuge? <Yes, just T off the overflow drain line to feed the refugium.> Thanks, your worst ?nightmare, John!!! <Welcome, Scott V.> Re3: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 3/9/08 Scott, John again, forgot to tell you the 210 6' tank I have divided first ?skimmer area approx 22", middle refugium area approx 33", and the right side ?return pump area approx 11". How does this sound? Thanks again a ?lot!!!!!!!!!! <Welcome again John. This configuration is fine, and large too!! All of it sounds good, enjoy, Scott V.>?? Re7: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 3/26/08 Hey Scott, my plan had changed regarding the return(s). I think you mentioned a return pipe size of 1" or 3/4". <From the pump, yes.> My plan was to use a 1" from return pump up the back of the tank, then I was going to put a 1" tee in middle of the tank, then split to right approx 6" then tee off to 3/4",then continue to end of tank with a 45 to a 90 reduced to 3/4".This would also be done on the left side. Basically there would be 4 returns on back of tank. <Too many for 700 gph. Luckily, PVC is cheap and easy to adjust. You can start the system up and play with it to achieve the desired flow pattern.> One on the left of over flow box, then two in middle of the MegaFlows, finally to the right of the right mega flow box. It would be all 1" then reduced to 3/4".If this is ok should I just change the four returns to 1/2". <I would personally make it two ½”, three at most.> Or do you recommend 3/4"from pump, to back of tank, then each return being 1/2". <There would be little difference between ¾” and 1” at 700 gph.> My next question is regarding the drain pipes. I was planning using the Durso design. The 3/4" hole, should I make the pipe a 1"durso and the 1"hole should I make it an 1-1/4"durso. <This is the common application of a Durso, a slight oversizing. There is no benefit in my opinion, but no harm either.> Thanks. <Welcome, Scott V.> Re8: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 3/26/08 Hey Scott, I am going to try to attach pictures of return plumbing. If you think its too much let me know. <I do for 700 gph.> I think you were saying to use a single 1" or 3/4" return coming over tank with a single 3/4"locline or use a "y"locline 1/2". <Yes, this will be just right for the flow.> I hope you get pictures. John. <They came through fine, have fun, Scott V.>

Re9: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 3/29/08 Thank you Scott for your time. <Welcome John, I have combined your three emails into one for simplicity.> Of coarse I have some other questions. <OK> What steps should I take when I am going to start to fill the tank? Should I start to fill main tank till the water gets to the return pump. <Yes, above the return pump.> Then what? <Start the pump if all the plumbing is done!> Or what do you recommend? What are the chances of the main tank overflowing, <Very little (there is always a chance) if your return is sized appropriately.> what’s the best way to prevent this? <Appropriate flow for the drains.> The sump I’m not to worried about because it will be located in the garage. <You still don’t want to lose water!> I was thinking of maybe using one of the 3/4"in the MegaFlows, maybe putting a 1"1/2 PVC pipe just below the tank rim, through wall to outside just incase the water rose it would just drain out of main tank. But then I’m loosing a drain. What do you think? <This would amount to very little. If you outrun the other drains one ¾” emergency drain will amount to very little safety margin.> Can I wait a couple of months until I get a skimmer to start running tank ? <To start it at all? Yes. You can stock the tank without a skimmer, but I always advocate for the use of a skimmer, from the start.> Thanks again for your time with my set-up, if it wasn’t for you I wouldn’t even attempt this. <Welcome John, it sounds like it is all coming together.> Hey Scott, it’s John again. I am working on the plumbing under tank just wanted to know what you think. I’m using 4 "tees" 1"1/2" to 2", both the 1" and 3/4" drains are coming down from tank into the tees. <OK> My question is I have to go into wall to the immediate left of the outlet in the picture. I might have to put an elbow then out the wall. All the water will come down to left through wall into sump. Or should I divert the water from both over flows to middle then through wall, or is it ok the other way? <Whatever works to get the plumbing done. You will not lose much flow either way, you are well below the capacity of a 2” pipe.> The immediate right I put a clean out, and the valves are mostly for emergency shut down. <No reason for valves on a gravity fed line. Shutting off the return pump will shut down the lines.> I added some pictures for you to see. Of course they will be higher up, the main is a 2" as you recommended. The inlets to the "tees" are an 1"1/2. <Sounds fine.> Hey Scott, I just wanted to see what you think about the plumbing under my tank so far. This is the only possible way I can see doing it. I have both sides spilling into center, to go into wall. <This will work fine.> The center is about were its going to come out to drop into sump in garage. The black valve behind is the return, it’s 1" up to tank, then reduced to 3/4"along top. Then I have 3 outlets at top, left, center, right of tank. Each will have a 6" 1/2"flex pipe, with valves. I attached pictures, almost there, thanks. Hope it looks ok, John. <All looks fine, welcome, Scott V.> Thanks buddy, you are a great help. John <Welcome, enjoy finishing the setup, it is my favorite part! Scott V.>

Re10: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 3/29/08 Hey Scott, I just had a question re to the bulk heads, the 1" under tank is a slip fitting, I put the 1" PVC into with PVC cement, it just seamed a little loose to me. Is this supposed to be the 1" PVC slips into this bulk head and that's it? <Cementing it in is fine and advisable.> Also the 3/4"under tank is a threaded fitting. The bulkhead I used 100%silicone on both sides of gasket, I used plumbers putty below tank , hand tightened nut .Is this ok? <Hand tight is fine. What did you use plumber’s putty on, the threads into the bulkhead? I would remove this and use silicone hear, much less likely to leak.> Or should I use a wrench. My next question is the stand I’m using is an AGA cherry wood cabinet. This was the cabinet for the 210 tank I had. I took the right side off the cabinet, was able to cut the floor of it and reattach the right panel, making it a 48" cabinet. I used corner brackets added vertical wood and horizontal pieces for further support. I then added more pieces along top inner rim. I put 1/2"ply-wood on top with middle support. I know its hard to say but does this sound all right? <It sounds like it will be fine.> I will take pictures to try to capture what I am saying. <Ok, sounds good. From you description it sounds as though you made the stand strong enough. Scott V.> Re10: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 3/29/08 Hey Scott, I just came down from putting kids to sleep. Anyway, I just removed the plumbers putty from the bulkheads, I won't be able to sleep knowing this may be a problem. <You will be better off for doing this.> You don't know how much I must thank you for all your help, with my tank set up and even my writing and grammar. I know its not perfect, but I've learned to take my time (ha ha). <Thank you John, it is always a pleasure to help where and when I can.> Well good night. Time to work on plumbing the sump/refugium. I'm waiting for my 3/8" glass to be cut. Then I could start on that. So I wont bother you for a while. Thanks a million Scott, talk to you soon.. John. <Very welcome, do let us know how it all comes out, Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 4/4/08 Hey guys, I just had a question or two. I was wondering if it was ok to use clear 1"flex pipe to plumb my return pump? <Hmmm, yes vinyl tubing? It can kink and restrict flow if you are not careful. Flexible PVC or nylon reinforced vinyl are a better choice.> I’m probably going to use rigid PVC 1"right at pump with 1"valve, then the 1" clear pipe approx 5' to rigid PVC were it enters the back wall. I wanted to use flex (white) PVC, but Home Depot, pool suppliers don’t carry it. <Most do under the SpaFlex label.> Don’t want to order on line because I don’t need 50'.My next question is regarding the Durso pipes, the 1" is a slip and the 3/4" is threaded in overflow boxes. I feel it’s going to be difficult to get exactly the same heights due to one being a slip and the other being threaded. When I build them out of tank they might be exact but when one is put into slip fitting then one being threaded might throw off there heights. It’s also very difficult to measure them in the overflow boxes due to avail room. What do you recommend? <Build both and “dry fit” before cementing anything this will make it easy for you to adjust the heights to match. You may have to install and remove the standpipes a time or two, but this is about the long run, a little extra effort is worth it.> While I have you here I just wanted to sum up what I have set up so far to see what you think. 2-1" AND 2-3/4" over flows being used as drainage coming down under tank to all 1" approx 10", then to 1" 1/2" "tee" to a 2" manifold. This is drained from middle approx 1"right into wall. When it comes out the other side it extends approx 1' then a 45 degree then down into sump. The sump area is approx 2' x 22",spills over 3/8 glass approx 16"high then under and over the third baffle which is 15". The refugium is in the middle, approx 33" x 2' then hits the second set of baffles 14" then 13" to the return pump. <This all sounds fine.> Returning water back to tank through 1" flex or PVC into wall. The 1" runs up the back of tank were it splits in middle I used a 3/4" PVC, then three 1/2" return nozzles along back, left, center, right of the tank. I will be using 1/2" flex pipe to direct flow to different areas in tank which will have little valves to control flow in tank. <I assume you are referring to Loc-Line, a good configuration.> I know this is a little lengthy but I just want it to all be right. Thanks John, PS, what size return pump did you recommend for this application, and what make of pump? <I would choose something in the 700-800 gph at your head height for this, a Eheim 1262 if it were me.> I was thinking mag. <You can go this route, a Mag 9.5 will do the trick. Good luck, Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium Re: Sump/Refugium, Tubing found 4/5/08 Hey Scott, thanks for the response. <Welcome.> I found the tubing I needed. Yes the SpaFlex tubing. 6' for $11. <Great!> Also regarding the Durso pipes I found the "Durso" web site and ordered the 1" and 3/4" pipes pre made. I am using the LocLine in the tank for returns. I ordered (3) 6" flex line tubes with a valve on each so I have control of flow in tank. I also ordered flared ends. Should I drill a small hole in the flex pipe to break the siphon just below the water line, and if yes what size hole? <You certainly can, a few 1/8-3/16” holes in each line will do the trick.> I’m going to send you pics in my next e-mail of the sump/refugium. <Sounds good, Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 4/5/08 Hey Scott, here’s the pics of the sump/refugium. I hope they came out, John. Thanks for all the help. Hey Scott, I didn’t know if you got my pics last night, ,here they are again. John <Yes, they came through this time. Although a little blurry, the design looks good, this will work fine. Welcome, Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 4/7/08 Hey Scott, I just had a question. <Hello again John.> I was wondering if I should "tee" off the spa flex that’s running over the refugium with a valve. <I would not.> Would this lesson the flow in the main tank returns? <Yes, this approach wastes power in my opinion.> Or should I put in a power head for more flow. <If you need more flow in the refugium this is the way to go.> I would like to put in some Chaetomorpha algae. Could I use a plant grow light from home depot for this? <Certainly.> If yes what type do you recommend? <I use, recommend and even sell a patio light from Costco for refugium use. It is a 6500 Kelvin 65 watt quad compact bulb for around $8. It does need a cord attached to it and has a photo sensor that needs to be removed. Any 6500K or so fluorescent bulb will serve you well here.> Should I wait to put in the Chaetomorpha algae when cycling or put it in immediately? <I like to wait until the tank is cycled and stable to add the macroalgae. Best regards, Scott V.> Re: 120 reef sump/refugium MegaFlow Modification 4/17/08 Hey guys. <Hello John.> I have a couple of questions. First, I got my pump hooked up and tested, filled tank and sump. Seemed to work no leaks in plumbing. <Great!> I’m using the Mag pump 9.5 I know you suggested Eheim, but got it for a good price. <We all use different pumps, the Mags are a fine choice.> I drained all because I’m waiting for the Durso pipes to get here. Still need to get skimmer, light and rock. So my question is I was reading on the Durso web sight under mega flow modification. They cut out the teeth and put in a mesh face. They cut a piece of gutter guard and hot glued in place. This was done for more flow. What do you think about this? <I have seen this many places and find it totally unnecessary. The thinking is to increase the flow through the overflow, but the teeth are not the issue, it is bulkhead size. Fact of the matter is the bulkhead(s) limit the flow to just a bit more than 300 gph if you use the 1” and around 450 per overflow if you also use the ¾” as a drain. The teeth (I have actually tested this) are good for a little more than 900 gph.> It just seems good to me due to the teeth clogging up. <Yes, if you wind up with serious algae issues.> Would this be ok in my application? <It does not hurt, it is just not needed in my opinion.> My last question was I have an FX-5 canister filter from my previous set up. Could I use this at my sump just for carbon or other things. NOT <mechanical> filtration. Or would this also cause high nitrates? Just wanted your input on this or should I just scrap it and put directly in sump? Thanks again, John. <You could use the canister for this purpose. Although it is an inconvenient way to run carbon compared to making yourself a tray of some sort in your sump to hold it. You will still need to clean the canister and the carbon is just far easier to change out in the sump. Welcome, Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 4/21/08 Hey Scott just wanted to let you know I received the Durso pipes yesterday. When I put them in they stuck up from the rim approx 1"-2" inches. They said to measure from the top rim to bulkhead. So I cut them down around 3" now the top cap is level with the overflow box. I don’t know why they said measure to the tank rim. <It’s just a standard reference point for your type of overflow.> Well any way, it’s all filled up again all seems to be working well. Just adjusting the hole in Durso a little bit you can still here water swishing, little noisy but not gurgling, the water sounds smooth. <Sounds good.> No bubbles or micro bubbles in main tank, just a little ripple at top of water. I’m just waiting for my skimmer, compact flr light; thinking about an orbit 96x4 high output fixture? <Depends on what you want to keep.> Then I’m going to stock with some live rock. Then wait, wait, wait some more. You mentioned putting carbon directly into tank on a tray. Should this be put right under water flow from supply line? <No, this will grind the carbon up on itself. It needs to be behind some sort of diffuser such as a drip tray, not beneath any kind of forceful flow.> Or can it just be placed on the bottom of sump? <Yes, in an area where water will pass through such as between baffles.> Which section, the first skimmer supply side or last return side? <Closer to the last.> My supply side is 2" with a 90 degree approx just below the water line. Should I raise it up out of the water with a tray below so the water falls onto carbon or and filter pad tray area? Or just leave as is? <Leave it the way it is.> Other than these little things I let it run over night for the first time so far so good thanks again to you. <Great to hear! You’re welcome.> YEP, I am also re searching your web site for info. <Good.> Sorry to bother you again, John. <No bother, best of luck, Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 5/7/08 Hey Scott, its John again. <Hello John.> I just wanted to give you an update. I received my light fixture today orbit 2x250 HQI 65x4 ho actincs,18 moon lights. <Wow! Eighteen? Some moonlighting!> All's I can say is WOW! This thing is BRIGHT!!! <I bet.> The tank looks awesome. I have approx 120lbs Fiji live rock in it right now I didn’t go with the base rock from Dr. Fosters the shipping was going to be around $200. <The issue with ordering live rock from most Etailers, the shipping kills them too!> So I went local lfs got $3.99 lbs over 50lbs for premium not base rock. <A fair price.> The Euro Reef RS 180 is working great, right out of the box. <As it should.> I have a couple of questions about the lighting. How should I set up timers for lighting, in morning the actinics what time to start and for how long? Then the HQI'S, what time should they turn on and how long should they be on? <What time is relative to when you want to view the tank, so long as it is the same time everyday. Ten hours with the halides while having the actinics come on an hour before and stay on an hour after will work with this lighting, if that is the sunrise/sunset effect you would like.> Should the actinics be on from start of morning to night. <Generally, yes.> Then HQI'S go on for around 6 hours middle of day then turn off.I m gonna run the tank for a few months with just the rock. <You will want a more natural photoperiod in the range of 10-12 hours a day. With lower light corals you may be able to get away with 8 using these lights.> Should the lighting be off during initial cycling, or should just actinics be on for a few hours a day? <Some light curing rock, some don’t. I am firmly in the category that does to preserve as much life on the rock as possible. The argument for not lighting is the potential for algae blooms. This is just a phase that requires good skimming and frequent water changes.> Sorry for all the questions I’m throwing out at you. <Not a problem.> Last question should I put in a couple of green Chromis to help cycle or the rock will handle the cycle alone. <It will be fine alone. Adding fish while cycling can be detrimental to the fish if the rock has much curing to do.> I know you frown against any live stock during cycling. <Yes, better to wait until your water quality is good and stable.> I will be testing water daily now that all is up in running to monitor and log down the readings. Well thanks again Scott I have been researching all of this also, I just prefer specific answers from "you" because you've got me this far all your answers have been dead on. Thanks again <You are welcome John. Thank you and enjoy the new set up! Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium/Sand 5/10/08 Hey Scott, I have a quick question. <Otay.> What's better sand from an established tank from the local fish stores system or the bagged Caribbean live sand. <The former, the bagged stuff does not qualify as a truly live sand in my book.> I opted for the system established sand around 5 lbs with rubble rather than the bag of live sand. <Good choice.> I thought I read that the live sand is not really live sand. <Not the bagged and sealed stuff.> Also I had around 50LBS of old Caribbean live rock from my old tank it has dried out. I wanted to use this in my tank under my new Fiji live rock. Is this ok? Its to just build up under the good rock. <This will be fine combined with your newly acquired live rock. As far as the sand goes, either will populate in time from the rock. Getting sand from an established system will just give you a little head start. Enjoy, Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 5/10/08 P.s. I thought you might find this funny. I’m at the LFS and the guy asked me what I'm cycling my tank with, I said just live rock. He tells me they have a sort of fish rental a large, looked like a 8 lb fish for $350 bucks <Geez, I hope the price is a typo!> you actually buy him to cycle your tank then bring him back to replace after the tank has cycled. He said he's been in many systems for cycling purposes. What do you think of this practice? <There are far better ways to cycle a tank, and it is wholly unnecessary for tanks with live rock (other than curing the rock). I am of the firm opinion you only cycle a tank with fish you intend to keep, hence caution against using Domino damsels for this purpose. I guess renting the fish is one idea, one way to introduce disease too! Funny stuff, Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium/Flow 5/17/08 Hey Scott, how’s it going? <Hanging in there.> I just had a quick question, if you remember my set up, I have the (3) 1/2"returns left, center and right side of tank. I have the loc-line on each you were saying I have around 900-950gph returning to tank. <The appropriate flow for these returns.> My question is I just added today (2)Koralia #2 power heads rated at 600gph each, does this sound ok for flow in tank (reef), total of 2,100gph.I'm in slight diatom mode all levels are at zero. Thanks John. <This of course entirely depends on what you wish to keep. But, this amount of flow in a 120 will put you in a good range, yes. Talk soon, Scott V.>

Re: 90 gallon AGA, to become reef.
Re: Refugium Plumbing 3/3/08
So upon making my choice of Refugium (I ended up going with ADHI model 45)
I'm now down to the annoying task of plumbing.
<An accurately described job.>
I'm trying to plumb the ¾” return from my Mag drive using 3/4 inch pvc as opposed to vinyl tubing.
<OK>
Problem being, AGA's bulkheads seem to be more of a hindrance than anything. I cannot for the life of me get the pvc connected to the bulkheads. Can I get new bulkheads without the barbed fittings at the base of the bulkhead that will still be compatible with the return pipe and MegaFlow "Durso"? I'm very confused.
<You can easily get standard bulkheads and plumb them up to suit your needs. Everything is sold as a kit, but uses standard PVC parts. All will work with new bulkheads.>
Jason
<Good luck, Scott V.>

Running Protein Skimmer Outside Sump 2/28/08
Hello
<Hello.>
I have a new 65 gallon reef ready all glass set up. I also have a 11.5 gallon refugium.
<Great! A refugium is a nice addition to any tank.>
My problem is that my skimmer is too wide to fit into the compartments... how can I plumb the skimmer outside the refugium or use a container to place it into? I have a 38 gal reef set up I am moving to the new 65 gallon.
Thanks
<As far as externally plumbing the skimmer, it will depend on which skimmer you have. Some simply cannot be run like this. You can easily get a container (tank, plastic bin, 5 gal bucket if it will fit into it) to run it in. You will need to have your overflow feeding the skimmer container and then have the container overflow into the rest of your sump/refugium system via a bulkhead (Uniseals are nice if you use the 5 gal bucket) and PVC. There are many ways to do this, all different for each situation. It all just requires a little innovation. Good luck, Scott V.>

Remote Refugium 2/24/08
Dear WWM Crew,
<Hello William.>
For starters I would like to say what a wonderful resource WWM is and hope it continues indefinitely into the future. Many of my "unique" questions have be asked and answered countless times on WWM, and for that I am already in your debt (along with a national home loan company).
<Heee, me too! Thank you for the kind words.>
My current question pertains to locating a remote refugium in my bedroom (romance any one), I am sure this is not a novel idea and has been asked and answered previously, but I was unable to find it and will proceed.
The display tank is in the living room and has been running for two years, my former tank (running eight years) was destroyed during the 2005 hurricane season like so many gulf coast aquarists.
<Sorry to hear this.>
My current setup is a 170-gallon (4'L x 3'H x 2’W; beautiful to behold and impossible to reach the bottom) soft coral reef with eight fish, highlighted by two rabbit fish, which are my personal favorites. Water handling is similar to most, center overflow with a thirty-gallon sump which contains an ETTS reef devil skimmer, a small refugium, heaters, and return pump. The lighting is accomplished via a 400 watt metal halide and 4 65 watt actinic power compacts while water flow is enhanced by an in tank maxi jet 1200 (I am planning to mod the maxi as I hear it is all the rage in Paris these days).
<I am a fan of those mods, I have rigged many of these up over the years. The new kits are nice.>
I would like to create a more natural and stable system by adding a seventy-five or 120 gallon refugium to the mix. The common problem of space and décor comes in to play and there is no possible way to put the new tank in the same room (and stay married).
<Yikes!>
So I would like to plumb through the wall and attic into the bedroom and put the refugium in there as a fuge display. What is the best method for doing this in a leak and over flow proof way?
<This is not going to happen without relying on siphons, float valves and/or balancing pump outputs. None are flood proof, all are bad ideas in my judgment.><<Agreed. RMF>>
I have never had a problem with any drilled tank and sump set up (knocking on wood) and will only pursue this idea if it seems fool proof.
<I would not pursue this; you will not see it in my house!>
Gravity feed is impossible because I live in a one-story slab house; basements in south Louisiana are very uncommon. A closed loop setup with dual pumps seams guaranteed to fail.
<It will.>
At any rate your input will be helpful in deciding if this is a reasonable project or turn my attention in another direction (like doing a water change).
<It is easy to find something to keep busy with a reef tank!>
Thank you,
William B Wood
<Welcome, have fun, Scott V.>

Refugium Flow 2/23/08
I currently have a CPR hang on the back refugium (the large one, I think 24" long). My main question is what should the gph be for this unit. The powerhead it came with doesn't seem like it's pushing the water fast enough.
<The powerhead that comes with the unit is rated for 230 gph, this should be plenty of flow through this refugium. Sometimes it is not about the amount of flow, but how it is directed. Have you tried cleaning the powerhead?>
On the top of the water, in my fuge, there is like Cyano and it looks like little bogs. There is like Cyano on all of the acrylic of the fuge as well. There is NO Cyano in my main tank, only in the refugium.
<Good sign.>
I'm thinking about upgrading to a better power head, the macroalgae doesn't even tumble or anything.
<You certainly can do so, this could help.>
Also, my refugium has a lot of what looks like debris on top of the sand. Is this detritus?
<Or algae, Cyano.>
Should I remove it?
<You can, this will be a treatment and not a cure.>
I've heard that the little amphipods with eat it, and don't worry.
<Not all, algae and Cyanobacteria are likely.>
I don't want this being a nitrate booster for my tank. Should I add a cucumber to the refugium?
<No, little benefit to and many down sides to adding these, please see the linked article below. Perhaps consider adding a Nassarius snail or two to help stir the sand.>
Or will the new flow rate just blow it into my tank then my skimmer can take care of it.
<It sounds like it will help out.>
Any advice on these two situations is always helpful from you guys/gals. Thanks
<Welcome, please read the links below, good luck, Scott V.>
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seacukes.htm
http://wetwebmedia.com/refugpbfaq2.htm

Thoughts and Suggestions on a Combined Refugium/Sump…and Pumps – 01/07/07
Hi Crew!
<<Hiya Doug!>>
I've been in the hobby just a few months now, and am excited to step up from my 20G to a 120G!
<<Neat! Bigger “is” better>>
I'm planning for mostly FOWLR, but may add more inverts/corals as I slowly gain experience.
<<Mmm, then do keep this in mind when making your stocking selections…you will want to collect “reef friendly” specimens>>
Here are my current plans:
- 120G tank, 48x24x24", acrylic.
- Stand 40" tall, 9" canopy.
- 2 corner overflows – each with 2" inner diameter bulkhead at 20" height.
<<Ahh, very good…I see you’ve been reading!>>
- 2x 1" inner diameter bulkheads for return from sump.
For a sump/refugium below, I'm thinking of a standard 55G tank following your diagrams.
<<”Standard” glass tanks work quite well as sump and/or refugium vessels…and are a whole-lot cheaper than the purpose-built retail alternatives. Add a few baffles, drill and install a couple bulkheads (when/if necessary), and you’re “golden”…with money saved/ready to spend on other areas. My own system incorporates a modified 55g tank for a refugium, and a modified 75g tank for a sump>>
- Skimmer: AquaC EV180 w Mag 7 pump.
- Aiming for 15x water flow gives 1800gph.
<<Indeed…but I expect you will find that trying to process this much water volume through a 55g sump will be problematic>>
- Two sump return pumps, internal Eheim 1262s (want it to be quiet), should be about 1600gph at 5" head.
<<Very good pumps…and the “redundancy” of two pumps for your return can be a lifesaver, literally. About a year ago a faulty GFCI tripped and shut down the return pump on my heavily stocked 500g reef system (was off more than nine hours before discovery). The ensuing anoxic condition resulted in the loss of more than $1200.00 worth of livestock (fish and corals). Let’s just say “lesson learned”… I now have two return pumps on separate circuits for this system>>
Questions:
1. Is that too much flow through the refugium?
<<Yes… A couple to a few hundred gallons per hour is generally sufficient for a refugium. Obviously, utilizing “separate” vessels for sump and refugium make plumbing for the differing flow rates a bit easier>>
2. If so, would it work well to use just a single Eheim for the sump return, ~800gph, with an internal powerhead like a Tunze Stream in the tank?
<<800gph through the sump would be easier to accommodate (and a LOT less noisy), and some creative work with the baffles could provide a “raceway” to allow the full force of the flow to circumvent the refugium section on its way from the skimmer chamber to the pump chamber, while allowing you to divert a few hundred gph to the ‘fuge…if you choose to keep with a single combined vessel. I still like the idea of two return pumps…perhaps a couple Eheim pumps of lesser size…>>
Then maybe reduce the drains to 2x 1.5"ID?
<<A pair of 1.5” drains would handle a flow of 800gph quite well, with a healthy safety margin>>
Your thoughts and suggestions are very welcome!
Thanks,
Doug
<<Is my pleasure to assist. EricR>>

Upward Flow? (Refugium Setup) – 01/06/07
Hi crew,
<<Hello Kevin>>
I currently have a 70g SW FOWLR tank with a 30g sump/refugium.
<<Neat!>>
My refugium is setup as a DSB (5") RDP with live rock and Chaetomorpha with a 60w 5100K spiral CF light clipped on the side.
<<Hmm…do you find this to be enough light? I’m finding Chaetomorpha does better with a bit more light than this>>
So far it has been doing fine and the Chaetomorpha has been growing steadily.
<<Ah, I see… If it does “stall out” then do consider increasing the amount/intensity of the lighting>>
The refugium has been up and running now for about 6 months. I have read some of your other FAQs and noticed you mentioning the term "upward flow" in regards to refugium setup.
<<Hmm, doesn’t ring a bell with me at the moment>>
What exactly is this?
<<Dunno…can you be more specific?>>
I am concerned my refugium may not be setup ideally. Currently the main source of any water flow is a MaxiJet powerhead running a tube into the refugium then the refugium overflows into the main sump where the return pump is.
<<Where is the powerhead located? My preference is to feed “raw” water from the display to the refugium and then let it gravity-drain to the sump…but, if you are pumping water from the sump…this is acceptable>>
What do I need to do to have ideal "upward flow" in my refugium to fully utilize my DSB/RDP Chaetomorpha setup?
<< No need to make this more difficult than it is, mate [grin]. If you’ve got a couple hundred gallons per hour from the powerhead going to the refugium, and the macro-algae is growing as you stated…I don’t see where you need to do anything>>
Also, in the next month or two I will be venturing into learning how to hard plumb my aquarium.
<<Okay>>
The water will be split from the overflow pipe coming down to the sump/refugium.
<<Excellent>>
Ball valves will be used to make sure there is more flow to the main sump then to the refugium.
<<Consider using “gate-valves” rather than ball-valves. They will cost a few dollars more, but will provide much more precise flow adjustment>>
Keeping in mind my setup, what considerations should I have as far as pipe placement into the refugium and sump? Should the pipes go straight down and deep? Or should it end in a small 90 degree towards the surface? What would be the ideal way to have the water enter into the sump and refugium via PVC?
<<I find a 45-degree ell on the termination end, a couple inches below the surface, works well>>
I am sorry it is partially a two part question on two topics though hard plumbing into the refugium will inevitably effect the "upward flow" and the lay out in my refugium so I needed to understand better the impact of what "upward flow" was and when hard plumbing into the sump and refugium and how I could make sure I account for this.
<<No worries>>
The part about plumbing into the sump won't affect the refugium or "upward flow" but I figured since I was asking I would ask about that too :)
Thanks in advance,
Kevin
<<Happy to share… Once you are ready to hard-plumb, do feel free to write back to discuss if you like. Regards, EricR>>

Tank Configuration, sump/and fuge chamber pb des.  12/4/07
Hello Again Professors,
<Hello, only a few of us are, not me.>
I’m in the middle of setting up my 125 gallon (72inch long) tank. I’m trying to figure out some of the plumbing aspects and want to know what you think is best. My tank is an AGA with two Megaflow chambers. I have a 46 gallon Oceanic Sump and implementing a 15 gallon refugium. I was wondering if I should use one chamber solely for the intake/return of the refugium and the other chamber for the intake/return of the sump.........or have one chamber dedicated with the intake to refugium and intake to the sump, while the other Megaflow chamber would have another intake to the sump and the return from the sump. The return of the refugium would go to a side bulkhead in the sump where it would bypass the bio-balls but be filtered by the mechanical and chemical areas of the sump.? Which setup do you think is better for my future livestock. Thank you so much.
<If I understand you correctly you have two chambers in your sump and an external refugium? Consider one overflow line feeding the sump and the other one feeding the refugium with both overflowing into a common return chamber. Saves you use of a pump. I would skip filtering the refugium return through the mechanical/chemical media to allow any pods from the refugium back into your main tank. If this is a reef tank or a FOWLR with a good bit of rock, I would not use the bioballs. Welcome, hope this helps, Scott V.>
 

Same level refugium 11/5/07 Hello Bob and crew, Thanks for all you do, I feel I have found a real treasure on the internet. <Thank you Jesse, Scott V. here.> The clowns seem to be settling into the new tank, although still not eating what we throw at them; they seem to be finding a lot of small crustaceans to eat. I am now going to add a refugium and it brings up a few questions that I can’t find answers for even after hours of reading. First off maybe I should explain what I have: 60 gallon reef tank that is 2 months old now 62 pounds LR getting beautifully purple on much of the rock, although some green too 2 inch crushed coral (I wish I would have done sand). Should I remove some down to just one inch or less? <I would take it down to ½” or even remove it entirely.> 1 power filter hanging on the back for carbon 1 Bak Pak 2R+ protein skimmer 1 heater (the tank stays very near 77 degrees F) 1 Power Sweep 214 1 Penguin powerhead 1140 Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates 0. Phosphate test kit is on the way. Stock so far: 2 Ocellaris Clowns, 2 skunk cleaner shrimp, 15 snails, 15 hermit crabs, 12 different tiny corals, some feather dusters (came on rock and I fear for their well being in our new tank) <More than good for a cleanup crew.> Things seem to be going well but there is a lot I wish I would have done differently. I really wish I had found your site before I started this endeavor. While I was writing my girlfriend pointed out some red spots on the crushed coral (red algae?) <Likely diatoms or Cyanobacteria.> Stuff I have to set up refugium: Used 20 gallon tank with light, filter and heater 40 pounds of oolitic live sand 20 pounds of fine Tahitian moon black sand (had on hand) 12 pounds of live rock 1 Maxi-Jet 600 powerhead Some ½ inch tubing I am planning on setting up this used tank and then letting it cycle before adding macro algae. So now to the questions: I am planning on making the tanks level on top, or should one be slightly higher? Should I use two or three tubes for return and do they need a screen? <One tank will need to be lower than the other. The higher one will need and overflow either drilled through it or added (a siphon type overflow, not my recommendation though). The lower tank will then need to pump into the higher tank, water will then flow back into the lower tank via the overflow. A screen or box can be used to keep things where they belong. I prefer a box, it is less prone to clogging.> I am going to use the fine black sand to get the sand bed to at least 4 inches deep, hopefully. Is this a good plan? <This will be fine.> I am planning on using spaghetti algae in the refugium. Should I put this extra live rock in the main tank or refugium? Do I need to support the live rock on PVC? <You can put the extra rock where you want, I always put some in my refugium. You will read differing opinions on supporting the rock above the sand. You can if you want, no harm.> I am planning on using no dividers and just pumping with the power head from the main tank to one side of the refugium and then letting the water flow back from the other side. Sound good? <You will need an overflow in one tank or in both with a common sump. Without an overflow(S) there will be no way to keep one tank from flooding.> For now, all I can afford to use is the stock light. Should I use the heater and filter (extra carbon or phosphorus pad and added flow) that came with the used tank after I connect it to the main system? <You can use the heater if you need the extra heating capacity. The filter can be used also, but will be more to maintain and unnecessary if you have sufficient filtration already.> Could I add a mandarin goby to this system after it is all set up? Should I wait a year? Or never? <No, not in this system. It is just too small to support one long term.> Thank you for all your help. Some of these questions I think I know the answer to but am double checking and some I just don’t know. The LFS is helpful, but not near as knowledgeable as you. Also they suggested crushed coral when I wanted to use sand for my main. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Jesse <You are welcome, good luck, Scott V.> Re: Same level refugium 11/6/07 Hello again, Thanks for the quick response. <You’re welcome.> I'm going to take some of the crushed coral out of the main tank. I have read some say don't mix substrates and I have also been told to put some crushed coral on top of the fine sand. Should I put any of this crushed coral into the refugium? <You can mix substrates just fine, although I would still leave out the crushed coral (in the refugium too).> About the over flow box. Are you saying that I need an over flow box and a volume of space for water to flow incase of a power outage, just like a sump? <Yes, the lower of the two tanks would function as the sump in the event of a power outage, so you would need extra volume in that tank. The only way to have them the same level (reliably) on top would to have them both drilled and either sharing a common sump or connected to each other, in which case the tank being pumped into will overflow back into the tank being pumped out of. > I had imagined that if they were equal level nothing would happen if the power went out. Both tanks would equalize. So all I would have to worry about was if the siphon got plugged or stopped. In that case about 5-10 gallons of water would spill and I could make a catch for that amount. Is this a bad idea? Thanks, Jesse <Relying on siphons is just not a good idea. You will have constantly fluctuating water levels as the siphon equilibrates the tanks and then slows down and does not start moving water again until there is enough of a difference in water levels (assuming the siphon has not been broken). It is just immensely more reliable to use a simple gravity fed overflow(s) here. Even overflows on the market that rely on siphons require either one tank be lower or they share a common sump. I hope this helps, Scott V.> Same level refugium, additional water tests 11/6/07 Hello again, I'm still waiting on a response from you but I thought I would add some new information I just acquired. <Hello again Jesse, I just got to my computer.> Water quality- PH-8.2 to 8.4 Ammonia-0 Nitrite-0 Nitrate-close to zero Phosphate-close to zero Silica-less then .25 KH- very low and I'm going to get that fixed today Calcium-420 Thanks again, Jesse <All your numbers look good, assuming you are remedying the KH reading. Adding the refugium will only help. Have fun with it, Scott V.>

Refugium Setup/Overflow Prevention – 10/06/07 Hello WWM Crew, <<Hiya Jackie>> I am interested in adding two refugiums to my current setup (diagram attached). <<I can’t get this to open>> Here are my questions. <<Okay>> Keeping in mind that I don't have a creative bone in my body...is it a good idea to use a siphon overflow to get my main tank water to the refugium? <<Though not the “best”…these devices are used by many hobbyists…just be aware of their shortcomings (tendency to lose siphon)…and perhaps utilize “two units” for an added margin of safety>> Also, how do I connect my refugium to my sump? <<It is best to drill throughputs/install bulkheads and position the refugium to “gravity feed” in to the pump chamber of the sump>> Do I need a pump and bulkheads? <<No pump…trying to equalize/balance a pump in the refugium with the return pump in the sump will only end in disaster>> Should I be concerned about overflow, in the event of a power outage, with this setup? <<This is a serious consideration… You will need to configure plumbing components such that all transient water flow is contained>> If so, how can I prevent an overflow? <<You will need to adjust “running” water levels in the sump and refugium, and position the depth of the overflows such that, by the time the water drains down enough to break the siphon in the overflows, the sump and refugium had enough “empty” space to contain the transient volume. Much to be related here…please do start reading here and continue among the links at the top of the page (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/plumbingmarart.htm).>> I am getting an AQUA Fuge PS2 hang-on refugium to house copepods, and I will use the below tank refugium for Chaetomorpha. <<Excellent…and be aware this excellent matrix will to house copepods…and more!>> What is your opinion of the Aqua Fuge? <<Is okay for a small hang-on…>> Is the pump that comes with it sufficient, or would you suggest upgrading? <<I would just use the pump supplied for now>> I know little to nothing about bulkheads, baffles, etc...any suggestions you can offer will be greatly appreciated. <<Do start reading where I have indicated>> My goal is to reduce Nitrates and Red Slime Algae, as well as provide a natural food source for my tank inhabitants. <<All good reasons/uses of a refugium>> Thanks, Jackie <<Please read through our marine plumbing material and let me know if I can be of further assistance. EricR>> Re: Refugium Setup/Overflow Prevention - 10/09/07 Hi Rick, <<Hi Jackie...and...it’s Eric, actually (no “Rick” here [grin])>> Thanks for the information. <<Happy to share>> I wanted you to see my rudimentary diagram. <<Ah yes, thank you...it opened for me this time...and seeing this will help me to better help you>> From the info you provided I need to drill a whole in my sump (plastic) & refugium (acrylic) to install the bulkheads. <<Not exactly... I would drill and install a couple 1.5” bulkheads a couple inches down from the top of the refugium and then elevate the refugium just enough (if necessary) to allow it to gravity drain in to (going over the “top”) of the sump>> After the bulkheads are installed, what should I use to connect the sump to the refugium? <<A length of PVC pipe extending from the refugium bulkhead and over the top rim of the sump, with a 90-degree ell on the end, will suffice for the configuration I just outlined>> Keeping in mind the bulkhead on the refugium will be higher than the bulkhead on the sump (for purposes of the gravity feed). <<Indeed...but no need to drill the sump/complicate the installation any further...just extend the drains from the refugium over the top of the sump>> Also, when purchasing the CPR Fuge, would you recommend the one with or without the skimmer? <<Without... A good skimmer will pay huge dividends versus the high initial investment...I very much suggest you look at the quality offerings of Aqua-C and Euro Reef...the latter being my current fave>> My sump does not have any baffles, and my setup is such that I can't move the skimmer to the left side of the sump. <<No worries...simply use a long enough piece of pipe from the refugium bulkheads to reach the pump chamber at the other end>> I have one corner overflow. Thanks, Jackie <<Quite welcome...and do let me know if I need to clarify further. Eric Russell>>

Refugium Installation…Avoiding Biota Loss To The Skimmer – 09/30/07
Dear Wet Web Media Crew,
<<Hello Eric>>
I have been reading your website for a few years now and it has provided me with all the information I have needed to set up and maintain my first reef aquarium!
<<Excellent!>>
Thanks so much for all of your hard work.
<<We’re all pleased to be a party to your success>>
My question is regarding plumbing a refugium.
<<Okay>>
I recently purchased a 20 gallon tank to be added as a refugium to my 72 gallon aquarium.
<<An always worthwhile venture>>
I brought the tank to a gentleman who owns a LFS to be drilled, but upon arriving I noticed he was getting rid of a 90 gallon tank predrilled for the same price as the cost of the 20 gallon plus the drilling.
<<Sweet>>
So naturally I decided to buy the 90 and return the 20.
<<Naturally [grin]>>
The problem is that the only way I can conceptualize the plumbing is to add a submersible pump in the sump and have the fuge overflow back into the sump to be returned to the main tank.
<<Yep…and is how mine is plumbed>>
I am concerned that if I allow the water to be delivered into the sump the various life forms will be destroyed by the EuroReef skimmer.
<<Not an invalid concern… Arrange the design such that the refugium spills back directly in to the “pump chamber” of the sump, thus avoiding the skimmer>>
The sump is somewhat small, so I am guessing some, if not all of the water will be sucked into the skimmer.
<<Mmm…that depends on the design/configuration of the sump…whether or not the skimmer is compartmentalized distal from the return pump>>
I have read contradictory information regarding the damage caused by pumps; any definitive information would be greatly appreciated.
<<The return pump will cause “some” damage to biota, but most will pass through just fine…and even those damaged organisms will still be consumed/provide benefit to the system>>
The refugium will either contain a DSB and Chaetomorpha or will be a sea grass type display.
Thanks in advance,
Eric
<<Happy to share. EricR>>

Flow Rate (gph) vs. Pumping Height (Feet) = Refugium trouble, Combining A Refugium Within A Sump...How Do I Regulate Flow? – 08/15/07
Crew or anybody for that concern, help please.
<<How can I be of service?>>
Hello again,
<<Greetings>>
So it's been awhile since I lost my 125 reef.
<<Uh-oh>>
Yes the seal let go.
<<Mmm, I can sympathize...had the bottom seal let go on an 80g reef a few years back>>
I was crushed, we saved every thing but still lost a lot of money and good effort go down the drain.
<<Indeed>>
This happened last April of this year. Now I find myself wanting another reef tank and my soon to be wife wanting to kill me.
<<Fortunately my wife was more empathetic and understanding>>
I'm building a 55g reef with a 125g refugium under the 55g reef tank.
<<Interesting...most folks would go the other way around. But kudos to you, the reef will be all the better for the larger size and capacity of the refugium>>
My cousin is building the hutch-like stand for me as I type and read WWM daily.
<<Cool>>
So here is what I'm trying to figure out, I hope I don't confuse you.
<<Me too! [grin]>>
The Mag-Drive Pump that I have pumps 1200gph and with 7ft head-loss it pumps 810gph.
<<Okay>>
My continuous siphon overflow box does 800gph.
<<Hmm, do “test” this...I think it likely you will find anything more than “half” this rate may become problematic>>
This turns a 55g reef over like 11-12 times per hour( I think).
<<About “14” actually>>
That's way too much pumping through a refugium from what I read.
<<Not necessarily...in my opinion>>
WWM recommends turning over a refugium 2-3 times per hour, correct?
<<That’s more of a “minimum” baseline...there’s no real necessity for it, but also no reason why you can’t use a much higher flow rate as long as the system handles it well>>
I'm really hoping I can combine the sump/refugium all into one tank?
<<You can... This is not “my” preferred method, but many hobbyists do just what you stated>>
If so, how can I slow the water down and combine the two?
<<Ah, well...you will need to “isolate” the refugium within the sump yet allow water to pass from the first chamber to the last/the pump chamber unimpeded. There are two ways you can do this...one is to install baffles as usual to enclose/isolate the refugium but instead of fitting these from wall-to-wall across the width of the sump, you will need to stop short by a couple inches. You will also need to fit a side piece along the open length of the refugium. In doing this you have created a “channel” along one side of the ‘fuge which will allow water to circumvent the refugium and travel directly to the pump chamber. Now all you need do is install a small pump/powerhead in the first chamber of the sump to feed a lower flow-rate to the ‘fuge while letting the higher flow-rate from the tank’ drains travel around to the other end of the sump. Or...rather than “building” the refugium you can simply place a smaller tank (30g/40g) within the sump to achieve the same effect. With both of these methods you can either drill the end-wall to allow water to drain, or as long as the top of the refugium chamber is lower than the top of the sump, you can simply allow the refugium to fill and “well-over” the sides (this latter might actually allow for “better” transfer of planktonic/epiphytic matter>>
If I'm way off track here or if I seem confused it’s from reading others ideas and WWM.
<<Keep reading/thinking, mate...the understanding will come>>
I'm more “you show me” or a “hands on” type of guy so that's why I'm asking you or someone for some help because I'm really stressing it here over this little 55g reef.
<<No worries...just take a deep breathe, slow down, and take your time>>
I just want it right this time, I can’t keep starting over and over again.
<<Patience is key...keep reading/researching/asking questions...>>
Sorry this was so long and took some time to figure out.
<<Again...no worries>>
Thanks for your time, I appreciate your efforts here at WWM.
Brian, Wisconsin
<<Happy to help, Brian. EricR, South Carolina>>

Sump-thing I would like to try... Refugium Configuration…One Pump Goes In, One Pump Goes Out (Not