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FAQs about Stands, Supports for Aquariums: About Floors,
Flooring Underneath
Related Articles:
Aquarium Stands, Marine Tanks,
Canopies, Covers &
Lighting Fixtures,
Related FAQs: Aquarium Stands 1,
Aquarium Stands 2, What to Use,
DIY,
Finishing/Coating,
Commercial, Leveling,
Modification, Repair,
&
Tanks,
Tanks 2,
Tanks 3, Tanks 4, Aquarium Repair 1, Acrylic Aquarium Repair, Used
Aquarium Gear, |
Spread the weight out... shim this support fully... test
for level with the tank partly, wholly filled. |
Questions About A 180 Gallon Tank Falling Through The Floor – 08/25/08
(For this and all situations where a doubt exists…inspection by a qualified and
licensed professional is always best)
Dear WWM crew,
<<Hello>>
I own a 99 year old duplex that is in mint condition. I live on the 2nd floor
and recently bought a 180 gallon tank and stand.
<<Mmm…I’d be cautious here>>
The weight of the tank filled is approximately 2175 lbs. the dimension of the
base or the floor space that it takes up is 2ft in width and 6ft by length. I am
worried that it could possibly fall through the floor.
<<Me too>>
I read a similar case of another person whom you chatted with and you said that
if it is up to 150 you should be okay. You also said that 1500 lbs is okay. What
about 2175lbs?
<I don’t know who here made these references or how they came by them, but I
would not apply/rely on such generalizations. Building codes differ from one
state/county/city to another so what may be considered a safe load in one place
may well not be in another. Also, the fact that your home is 99yrs. old almost
certainly means it is NOT up to current code re joist dimensions/spacing/static
load bearing capacity. Any comment on whether or not your floor will support the
tank would require detailed information on the structural make-up of the
building to include lumber dimensions, span, method of attachment, etc….even the
species of wood used. If this were a ground-floor installation and you had
access to a crawl space I could make some recommendations on how to brace the
floor to support such a tank. And even then such advice is risky/no replacement
for having a knowledgeable individual “lay eyes” on the situation. But being a
second-story installation…and in this instance for sure…it looks like you are
limited to what the existing floor can carry. The best way to get that
information is to shell out the couple hundred bucks it will take to get a
structural engineer to come out and inspect the proposed tank location>>
Since mine is 180, does it make a difference?
<<It would appear so>>
My house is an old German Victorian duplex that is in mint condition. The floor
is level and seems sturdy. What are your thoughts?
<<I very much recommend you not proceed with the tank installation before
getting a licensed professional out to assess the house re. Should the
inspection prove to be in your favor, just the peace of mind provided re is
money well spent. If the inspection reveals the floor will not hold the tank,
the money spent is cheap compared to the expense/aggravation/real possibilities
for physical danger of forging ahead without knowing and the tank load proves
too great for the floor>>
Thank you
<<Regards, EricR>>
Issues
involving leveling and placement 2/27/08
Hi Bob,
First off let me say Thank You. I have learned so much reading through
your posts. You have unknowingly help me in so many ways.
<Ahhh!>
I have finally felt the need to write you cause I'm sort of at a loss
and besides the 2 hang-ups, I would like to know how a pro like you
thinks I'm doing. I have a 4 month old 10 gallon, 1 month old 44 gallon
hex and just purchased a used 110 gallon saltwater tank all glass 1/2"
(Marineland built 01') and standard pine stand (Perfecto) cost me $200.
<Bargain>
I plan to use this set-up for freshwater. It has two drilled holes in
the back corners. I re-silicone in existing bulkheads and piped in 90
degree joints and ball levers to each (just one of the issue you've
helped with). I plan on adding a Penn Plax 1200 canister filter to make
use of the existing holes. I also will be placing a 48" weighted bubble
wand down around some rock I will pick up at HD ( lava rock, slate,
quartz, or onyx). I am using 2 or 3-50lb bags of pool filter sand as
substrate,
<Mmm, am not such a fan of this silica... hard to keep clean... doesn't
do much biologically...>
I have Cory Cats and an Elephant Nose that will appreciate it.
<Is this the "flat" whitish shiny material? If so, Corydoras don't
really like silicates>
As far as decor goes I'm trying to recreate African river bed so some
plants, rocks and petrified/driftwood will be it. My issue has been
placing the tank. Right now I have it on my second floor Master Bedroom
on hardwood flooring against the staircase wall which I've been told has
doubled up floor beams along that wall, then another one 12" from that.
So the tank being roughly 48x24x24 is sitting parallel with 3 floor
beams. To my calculations that's like a Geo Metro being parked in a
4x2x2 space in my room once full....eeks.
<Heeee! Not quite Geo>
I could move it against the front wall of the house which is obviously a
load bearing wall, my Hubby does not like this idea cause that is
directly over our couch as opposed to it being over a hall closet like
it is now. My 3rd option is I could bring it down stairs (which is still
not concrete cause I have a basement) so the same issues would be
present but more load bearing walls available. I don't really like that
idea cause I have 3 tanks down there now and really want one in my room.
I don't go in the basement at all so I don't want it down there. My
thoughts on this is to just not worry people use water beds which carry
much more water/wood weight and place them where ever they want.
<Yes... but... note how the weight is "spread out">
Any thoughts?
<Yes... I'd have that hub-ster make a piece of one piece plywood to put
underneath all feet of the stand... to do the same spreading... Shim
this up if the whole caboodle is not level>
Other situation on hand.... I have used a playing card to check the
leveling of the tank on the stand and on the front left side a 6" area
and rear right back a 10" area at/around the corners I can pass the card
straight through. What can I use to help this without lifting the tank
off the stand?
<I would lift all off... place a piece of compressible foam under... and
the stand on the ply as above...>
I ask cause I cannot pull the tank out of the stand without breaking at
least one bulkhead seal, due to them being so close
<Mmm, better to cut, put in a union for both now...>
the back corners and inner wood frame of the stand would not allow it.
Also the tank just sits on top the stand not fitting into a lip and
their is no center support touching the tank at all except the one on
the tank itself (the black trim which covers around the top bottom and a
middle bar from front to back on both top and bottom) is that normal?
<Yes... but I would put one in myself...>
My 44 Hex has a lip is sits in on the stand. Should I break the seal and
build a lip up around the stand?
<Mmm, I would break the seal... but not put a lip... unless you live in
an area subject to seismic activity>
but then it would be virtually impossible to move the tank in or out of
the stand. Do you think I should try adding the 1/4 foam board from HD?
<Yes>
If so do I just add a small piece where needed? or lay the whole board
across the top (cutting out spaces for the plumbing of course)?
<The latter>
I attached a picture so you could see it. Thank You for your help in
advance, Tammy W.-Upstate NY
<Welcome. BobF, Southern Cal.> |
|
 |
Support for a 55 gal tank
10/7/05
Hello,
My son wants to set up a 55 gallon fresh water tank on the second floor of our home. I have concerns regarding the weight of a tank this size. The tank
would be set up on a standard Formica counter top over Kraftmaid cabinets. The
cabinet is upstairs in a newer home (built in 1995) and the room has a 3/4" oak floor. Am I being overly cautious or do I have reasons to be concerned.
Thanks for any assistance, Renee
<Good to be concerned, but should be fine... likely the counter top has a spread-out support underneath (I'd check), and strong-enough supports under the floor boards... I would contact the Kraftmaid folks re whether they have concerns here... some six hundred pounds of weight of about four square feet base. Bob Fenner> Reinforcing floor joists for 150 gallon aquarium 12/2/05
Hi,<Hello Mike>
I have a 150 gallon FOWLR aquarium. I've noticed that when my 2 dogs run by the tank it shifts a little. I need to reinforce the floor joists to help support the additional weight.
The tank is against an inside wall, across the floor joists.
What is the best way to reinforce the floor joists? Can I just buy 2 floor joist stands and place a 4x4 post across the existing joists under the tank and use the jack stands to help support it?
<I'd just double up on the joists, fasten them to the existing joist with glue and screws. James (Salty Dog)>
Thank you for your help, Mike
<You're welcome>
Pitching a wobbly... tank 6/5/06
Dear Bob and/ or staff,
<Just us fishes, fish-folk>
I have a very serious situation concerning my tank and I really need help. I
have previously had the tank in the basement, but I decided to move it up to the
living room. I bought a cabinet stand and transferred everything upstairs
relatively smoothly. What I am concerned with is the fact that now, when the
tank is full, when you walk heavily around it it kinda shakes, wobbles.
<Very bad, dangerous>
The floor is made of hardwood. What should I do about this, is it safe? Please
respond ASAP. Thanks you very much
John Ferrante
<Read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/aqstands.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
New to the hobby . . . a little advice ... MacL's Back!!!
Hey To all of you at WWM! <Hi there, MacL here after a long hiatus.>
The hobby of fish keeping has just recently became a very serious interest of
mine, I housed a few 10 gallon tanks for years but just recently
increased my tank sizes... a lot. <Beware it can become seriously addicting.> I
am still living at my parents house, because I just graduated from high school,
so my room has became the show room for my two aquariums. I have a 46 gallon
bowfront FW tank and a 55 gallon SW tank. <Very nice.> I have a picture attached
to give you a better idea on the
situation. <Unfortunately the picture didn't make it to me. Sorry!> The floor
seems to be holding these two aquariums fine. I searched on your FAQ's on
aquarium stands and floor support and found that the type of iron stand
supporting my 55 gallon should have a piece of plywood under it!!! <The plywood
spreads the weight and basically, for lack of a better word, cushions it. It
also provides bracing so the legs don't bend and fail on you. Always a good idea
to prevent a problem.> I would drain my tank and get right on that but I plan
on taking the 46 and 55 out of my room and just keeping a 125 gallon aquarium
with a nice level wood stand. My parents seem concerned with this (which is
understandable) but it is only 25 gallons more of weight. <It is indeed just a
little bit more weight but it does have a little to do with weight disbursement.
What you also need to remember is that water weighs 8 lbs per gallon so when you
figure 125 gallon you have around 1000lbs of weight. Most people do not have the
support beams in their house to hold that and need to do some additional bracing
unless they use a load bearing wall.> I do not see this being a problem as long
as the weight is equally distributed. I am hoping you guys can help me out
because the only reason for upgrading to a 125 is from all of the useful
information I found regarding proper tank sizes for fish. <Absolutely the way to
go, the larger the tank, absolutely the better for many, many reasons.> My local
fish store which does strictly saltwater fish convinced me that a baby striped
pufferfish (around 3 inches) and a large lionfish (around 7 inches) would do
just fine together in a 55 gallon tank! <EEEEEKKKKKK.>
I don't want my poor animals growth to get stunted from such a small tank.
My striped Pufferfish has been very stressed since I introduced the lionfish.
<Not surprising, have you seen the size of the lionfishes mouth? Reminds me of
some people I know digging in at the local buffet.> The lionfish seems
territorial but has never attacked my little friend. All my puffer fish does now
is lay on the bottom hiding in openings of live rock except for when food is
dropped in at nights. I honestly think that the only reason for this is that
fact that the tank is to small and extremely over crowded. I searched and found
the striped puffer fish can reach 15 to 20 inches, is this in captivity or in
the wild? Again the big question I have really concerns my floor supporting the
weight of a 125 gallon. With a sturdy stand and foam or ply-wood underneath I
hope it would not be a concern, if so could you please point me in the right
direction of what to do for it to work. <Are you on the first floor or the
second floor? That makes a huge difference!> The house is probably a little over
25 years old. My Local Fish store said a tank of 180 gallons would be fine in my
room because the weight would even out to be around a pound to each square
inch... I trust your advice much more than theirs especially after they sold me
those animals knowing I had such a small tank. <I have to say that it really
depends on the location in your house. Where you plan to put the tank. If it
won't work in the location you planned perhaps some negotiations with your
parents. Do you have a basement?> I learned my mistake and do all my research on
WWM now, thanks a lot guys. Also in the past I have emailed to you, I found a
few of my messages answered but had trouble searching and finding the rest of
them, I think this is because I was new to the site and didn't know where to
find them. I am pretty sure I have it figured out now though, do I click on the
"today's FAQ's page?" I figure I do although I didn't see a special section for
the Saltwater FAQ's. Just Fresh and Brackish. <Look under Marine.>
Also to give you a better idea on the setup of my room for the support of a 125
I took a picture which includes the 46 gallon bow front (left side) and the 55
gallon Saltwater (right side). Both are on the same wall. And a picture of my
very large lionfish as well if you had any interest in seeing it! I picked him
up pretty much full grown for only 30 dollars.. The guys at the LFS enjoy my
company there and sell me fish extremely cheap. <That's a good thing and a bad
thing when they sell you a fish that doesn't work for the size of your tank.
Obviously though you are on the right track.>
Again thanks for taking the time to read through this email and answer my
questions! Do you guys get paid to do this ? I hope so! <Nope no payment. Good
luck. MacL>
-Peter
Tank Shimming/Carpet Woes - 06/20/06
Hello Bob and/or fellow WWM folks.
<<Fellow Eric here>>
I noticed my 75g mega-flow (with 20g tank, as sump, filled to ~15g) is out of
level.
<<Mmm...>>
I have not checked the degree, as of yet, but it is clearly visible from the
carpet.
<<Placing a tank on carpet, while surely a "doable" thing, can often be
problematic...not to mention hard on the carpet>>
I discovered this, unfortunate, detail this morning. This tank took the place
of the 55 gallon that sat in the same place. This tank (AGA) is on a pine stand
which in turn is on ¾" plywood placed over carpet to distribute the weight.
<<Even so, differences in density of the materials bonded together to make up
the carpet pad can lead to variances in "compressibility" of the pad leading to
the issue you now face>>
Now, from the wall, the tank is off level where the back is higher and the front
is lower due to the compression of the carpet.
<<Ahh...you may be too close to the wall with the plywood and catching the
"tack-strip">>
I picked up shims and here is the plan:
<<Shims eh...you're making me nervous...>>
1. Get the 55g and fill with water and live rock from the 75. I also have some
Rubbermaid containers large enough to serve.
2. I am going to leave the fish in as I can pump the water both to and from with
a spare Mag-Drive pump.
<<...?>>
3. I intend to shim between the carpet and the plywood as the stand seems very
much even on the board and the compression is in the carpet.
<<Careful here, be sure you know what you are doing...if the plywood is not
"fully" supported it WILL flex>>
4. I am going to retest the level and shim as needed while refilling the tank
adjusting for any area out of level.
I have the wooden shims and I also picked up some ¼" aluminum stock metal in 3'
lengths that I can use. Emptying the tank seems safest from everything I read
thus far.
<<Yes, definitely empty the tank during this adjustment>>
I am fairly certain this is from the carpet and not the floor past the normal
settling that is present in our home.
<<Am in agreement>>
This was a lousy discovery but better than a broken tank for missing it longer.
<<Yes>>
Is there anything I am missing here or should be inclined to focus on more so?
<<Other than cutting out a space in the carpet for the tank, no. Do Make sure
the plywood is fully supported and not just propped up along the edges, and be
aware the plane will likely "shift" as weight is added>>
Should I be concerned with over compensating as the back end could also settle?
<<As you stated, it is likely not the sub-floor that is the problem (though this
too could be less than "flat and level"). Maybe you could try just moving
things out a couple inches from the wall and see how it measures up>>
Should I instead (I will need help from friends to do this) move the tank and
remove the carpet beneath?
<<This would be my preference if at all a possibility>>
If you respond via email; this is my work email so I will receive it
tomorrow. I will likely attempt to level with the shims tonight. I will
readjust as needed.
<<I hope all goes well>>
Thank you.
James Zimmer
Garfield, NJ
<<Quite welcome. Eric Russell...Columbia, SC>>
Large Tank...Safe on Second Floor? - 06/15/06
Hey To all of you at WWM!
<<Hey there Peter!>>
The hobby of fish keeping has just recently became a very serious interest of
mine, I housed a few 10 gallon tanks for years but just recently increased my
tank sizes... a lot.
<<Cool!>>
I am still living at my parent’s house, because I just graduated from high
school, so my room has become the show room for my two aquariums. I have a 46
gallon bow front FW tank and a 55 gallon SW tank. I have a picture attached to
give you a better idea on the situation.
<<Hmm...no picture attached...>>
The floor seems to be holding these two aquariums fine.
<<For reader clarification...we're talking about a second-story room>>
I searched on your FAQ's on aquarium stands and floor support and found that the
type of iron stand supporting my 55 gallon should have a piece of plywood under
it!!!
<<For spreading the weight, yes>>
I would drain my tank and get right on that but I plan on taking the 46 and 55
out of my room and just keeping a 125 gallon aquarium with a nice level wood
stand. My parents seem concerned with this (which is understandable) but it is
only 25 gallons more of weight.
<<But likely concentrated in a smaller footprint depending on the distance
between the other two tanks>>
I do not see this being a problem as long as the weight is equally
distributed. I am hoping you guys <<or gals>> can help me out because the only
reason for upgrading to a 125 is from all of the useful information I found
regarding proper tank sizes for fish.
<<Well Peter, It is quite likely all will be fine if the tank is along the wall
and perpendicular to the floor joists. But let me suggest that for about a
C-note you could have a structural engineer come by for a look to confirm. I
have heard/read about folks with tanks much larger than the 125 on the upper
floors of their homes, and, I have a good friend with a 120 in the room over his
garage. But for my money and peace of mind, the hundred or so dollars spent to
have an engineer take a look and provide their stamp of approval (or not!) is
well worth it>>
My local fish store which does strictly saltwater fish convinced me that a baby
striped pufferfish (around 3 inches) and a large lionfish (around 7 inches)
would do just fine together in a 55 gallon tank!
<<Yikes!...no way!>>
I don't want my poor animal's growth to get stunted from such a small tank.
<<Not to mention the other health/psychological issues that would arise>>
My striped Pufferfish has been very stressed since I introduced the
Lionfish. The lionfish seems territorial but has never attacked my little
friend.
<<Am hearing more and more about incompatibilities between these to genera of
fishes>>
All my puffer fish does now is lay on the bottom hiding in openings of live rock
except for when food is dropped in at nights. I honestly think that the only
reason for this is that fact that the tank is too small and extremely over
crowded.
<<Possibly...do some reading here and among the indices at the top of the page:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/puffcareinfo.htm >>
I searched and found the striped puffer fish can reach 15 to 20 inches, is this
in captivity or in the wild?
<<Is this fish Arothron manilensis? If so then yes, though more likely to
attain a length of 10-12 inches in captivity...still way too much fish for the
55>>
Again the big question I have really concerns my floor supporting the weight of
a 125 gallon. With a sturdy stand and foam or ply-wood underneath I hope it
would not be a concern, if so could you please point me in the right direction
of what to do for it to work.
<<The "stand" has little to do with whether or not the floor will support your
tank>>
The house is probably a little over 25 years old.
<<Then it is likely the joists are a bit "undersized" by today's
standards/building code...but that doesn't mean they won't support the tank,
just more reason to consult a structural engineer>>
My Local Fish store said a tank of 180 gallons would be fine in my room because
the weight would even out to be around a pound to each square inch...
<<And did they also show you their degrees in engineering?>>
I trust your advice much more than theirs especially after they sold me those
animals knowing I had such a small tank.
<<A troubling but all too common happening>>
I learned my mistake and do all my research on WWM now, thanks a lot guys.
<<WWM is a great place to start, but please don't limit your "fact finding" to a
single source. Always try to obtain info from different areas/perspectives and
then base a decision on your own good judgment>>
Also in the past I have emailed to you, I found a few of my messages answered
but had trouble searching and finding the rest of them, I think this is because
I was new to the site and didn't know where to find them. I am pretty sure I
have it figured out now though, do I click on the "today's FAQ's page?"
<<Yep>>
I figure I do although I didn't see a special section for the Saltwater FAQ's.
Just Fresh and Brackish.
<<The "Dailies" page is a homogenous collection of "all" the day's replies>>
Also to give you a better idea on the setup of my room for the support of a 125
I took a picture which includes the 46 gallon bow front (left side) and the 55
gallon Saltwater (right side). Both are on the same wall.
<<Afraid the picture doesn't seem to have accompanied the email>>
And a picture of my very large lionfish as well if you had any interest in
seeing it!
<<Would, if it were here <grin> >>
I picked him up pretty much full grown for only 30 dollars. The guys at the LFS
enjoy my company there and sell me fish extremely cheap.
<<Mmm...and apparently with little regard as to whether you have the facilities
to keep such animals>>
Again thanks for taking the time to read through this email and answer my
questions!
<<No worries mate...is what we do>>
Do you guys get paid to do this ? I hope so!
<<We're an "all volunteer force" my friend...but that's not to say there isn't
some benefit to being here...not the least of which is the satisfaction that
comes from supplying perspective/help/advice to folks such as yourself, and the
knowledge that what we do is good and important to the hobby and to the lives of
all our aquatic charges>>
-Peter
<<Regards, EricR>>
Finding Out If My New House Can Support My Tank.
7/3/06
Hi WWM crew,
<Hello Alex>
I'm moving to a new house soon and I'm not sure if my new house's floor can
support the weight of my tank. I have a 90G tank with a 33G sump. I never
thought a tank this size could cause trouble. However, in the old house (the one
I'm living in now), the tank was located on 1st story with a wooden floor, it
was there for a bit over one year, and after I moved it to the garage a few days
ago, I actually found out that the floor was uneven. I went down to the basement
and I can see that the part of the ceiling of the basement underneath where the
tank was to is a bit lower than other part of the ceiling. I suspect it is
partly due to the fact that over the course of the year there was a few times of
water leaks caused by my skimmer at the sump which poured well over 10~20G on my
floor. I'm wondering if it is the water leaks that soften the wooden floor and
probably even the wood structure of the house and therefore caused the floor to
actually lower?
<Quite possible, yes. Just the water alone weighs in at over 700 pounds.>
The new house that I'm moving into is just a normal wooden house like so many in
North America, I believe though, I have not yet been able to really confirm
that. Are there ways I can easily find out if the floors can support the weight
of the tank or not? If not, I'll probably have to leave the tank in the garage.
<Most homes will have 2x10 joists on 16” centers, which should not pose a
problem supporting the weight of a 90-gallon tank. I’d stay away from metal
stands where the weight is just distributed through four small areas. Cabinet
type stands spread the weight out much better as they have a larger footprint on
the floor.>
Thanks!
<You’re welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Alex
Determining Structural Integrity/Beefing Up the Floor - 12/07/06
Hello,
<<Howdy>>
I am in the process of buying a house.
<<Congratulations!>>
I have a 120 gallon glass tank with wooden stand, all by Glass Cages. I also
have a 30-gallon sump and the tank has around 150 lbs of live rock. The new
house has a crawlspace foundation and I am curious if I need to reinforce the
floor under the tank.
<<Possibly...the hundred bucks or so spent to have a structural engineer come
take a peek is well worth the piece-of-mind...they should also provide a
certificate of approval that can carry much weight in the event of a
mishap/insurance claim>>
If so, how do you do it?
<<Some pipe-jacks from Home Depot, leveled 8"x16" concrete blocks to set the
jacks upon, and 4"x4" timbers spanning the floor joists and supported by the
jacks. It's relatively simple to do (depending on how much room you have to
work), but I highly recommend getting an opinion/advice on beefing up the floor
from a structural engineer>>
Thanks,
Jeff S.
<<Happy to share. EricR>>
Wrought iron stand; is this appropriate for 2nd floor with a 55 gallon
tank?
Hello Bob.
<James>
I picked up the tank. It was used and in good shape. However, the stand is iron
with legs that the person says was designed for 2 55gal tanks. This may be true
but with only 4 areas of concentrated weight distribution I wonder about using
this stand on a second floor.
<Me too>
Now if the weight is actually distributed and countered by the frame it-self and
the cross arms bolted on the back then perhaps this is another matter.
<Yes>
I (correctly or not) see this as (weight of stand + weight of empty tank + all
of contents once full {LR, sand/gravel, water & fish}) all distributed on 4
points of contact with the floor rather than a wooden stand where the weight is
distributed over the area of floor/carpet contact. I do like the stand as it
will hold a smaller tank and a wet/dry filter with Bio Balls and other
materials. Now, I was considering putting board under the tank and it will have
to be shimmed as it is very visibly not level. This makes sense as the house is
not level (all angles head toward street) from settling.
<The board, shims is the best idea... the actual shims should be under the legs
themselves... to allow the (piece of ply) wood to distribute the weight>
Looks like I have some (more ; ) ) reading to do on the site in the tank
section, however, I do not recall anything that was specific to a metal stand.
<Not metal, but this is covered re all aquariums, stands>
We got a digital camera. I will take some shots of my little 5 gallon as I am
very proud of it. I would love for you to see what you have helped me create
from your awesome book!
<Please send your pix along as attachments, with explanations, descriptions for
posting>
I imagine once getting the issues of the new tank over it will be about 1-1.5
months before transferring my livestock into it. I am considering adding my tank
water and filter bags once I have salt water. I am thinking of sticking with a
FOWLR setup since my wife likes some non-reef friendly fish and this will also
save a small fortune on lighting. As there is 55
gallons of capacity I may just mix the salt in the new tank at first... too much
volume for my present aging setup to handle between fresh and salt mix
containers. Dear God there are some hideous materials inside the fresh water
containers that settle out over only a few days!
Sincerely,
James Zimmer
Garfield, NJ
<Bob F, in HI>
Floor support for 180G
Hi WWM Crew,
I just moved into a new (old) home and would like to take this opportunity to
upgrade to a larger reef tank. I have my eyes set on a either a 180G tank but am
concern about floor support. The house is about 55 years old with hardwood floor
and I am not sure if it will support the weight. Are there any tests I can do
prior to test the floor strength, or do you have any suggestions on how I could
access if the floor is strong enough to hold the tank?
<Yes... the use of equivalent (or greater) weights to replicate what the tank
will weigh (likely close to a ton). Also I do have suggestions re spreading the
weight under the system posted here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tksstds.htm>
I believe the tank will be sitting in parallel to the floor joists. My
guess is the finished tank (with LR, sand and equipment) will weight over
2000 lbs (scary).
<I agree. Bob Fenner>
Thanks.
Brian
- Preparing the Floor -
I had a 90 gallon oceanic bow front reef aquarium that experienced a leak in
which I lost everything. I am now preparing to go several sizes
larger with a 215 gallon oceanic reef aquarium. I am concerned about
having another leak so I have been contemplating making changes on how I set up
the tank. One idea is to cut up a section of carpeting about two feet
larger than the stand and place linoleum under it with a drain cut into the
floor. Another is to cut up the a section of carpeting, create a
wooden pan that is slightly larger than the stand, waterproof it, cut a drain
into it, and place the stand in it Am I going overboard in trying to
protect myself from a leak? <No... seems very sensible to me, especially if
you were protecting hardwood floors.> How do other people setup the stand?
<Certainly not with this amount of preparation - usually just goes on the
floor and the water goes in. My bet is this is SOP 99% of the time.> I plan
to place the new aquarium in the same place as the old one and it would have
carpeting and carpet padding underneath it if I didn't do anything. Any
suggestions? <I like your idea of the containment vessel... would force the
water to go down the drain, whereas the linoleum would only protect that one
point in the floor, with the water seeking the lowest level in the floor which
could be under other carpet.>
Thanks
Mark
<Cheers, J -- >
Floor Support For a 180 Gallon Tank - 02/21/03
Hello, I too have a 180 gallon sitting on a hardwood floor that was made in
the '30s-'40s. The house is about 60+ years old with the floor below
the 180 made up of I believe 2x8 joists. I have my tank sitting atop
these PERPENDICULAR to the floor joists so that there are a total of 4 2x8s
under the length of the tank. I don't think it would be a good idea
to set the tank parallel with the floor joists because the tank would only be
supported with 1 or 2 floor joists at the most and would be supported with the
length of the wood which would not be as strong and would tend to bow down more
with only 1or 2 joists instead of the 3or4 that would work best. I
also have a 60 gallon acrylic below the tank sitting on the stand
also. I am not a structural engineer but think someone would want to
have as many joists under their extremely heavy tank as possible. I
figure that my setup including water, rock, tanks and stand along with skimmer
and calcium reactor weighs close to 2300lbs or so. The person
that wrote in may want to rethink setting up the tank lengthwise parallel to the
floor joists. Just writing in with concern for my fellow
hobbyists. Thanks for the ear, Jeff
<Thanks for writing in. I know one person who has a 180 gallon tank that is
parallel to his floor joists -- he put 4x4s in his basement to shore up the
floor beneath the tank. --Ananda>
Floor Support for 75 Gallon?
Dear Anthony, Steve, or Bob,
<Hello Russ>
Thanks for answering questions. As a soon-to-be reef keeper, I've found the articles and FAQ's on WWM invaluable!
<Glad to hear/read so>
I finally decided to go for the 75 gallon RR Oceanic tank over the 58 gallon
(I think I'll be happier with the larger size). I estimate that the
combined weight of water, LR, sand, and everything else will be about
900lbs. To support this weight, I built a beautiful DIY stand out of
Douglas Fir 4x4 posts (3 in front, 3 in back) and 2x4's for the rectangular
base and top. However, I neglected to think about if my floor could support the weight. Have you heard of 75 gallon aquariums crashing through floors
before?
<Yes... even smaller ones>
My floor is constructed of 2x8's spaced 16 inches on center from each other and spanning 9 feet between load bearing walls. Consulting this chart at
http://www.pathnet.org/publications/review.pdf (page 24, table 12), for
40psf[pounds per square foot] the max span allowed is 12 feet 1 inch (there is a plaster ceiling below). Since my span is only 9 feet, I think it's
VERY safe to assume that each joist can support a minimum of 40psf.
Now for the calculations:
900 lbs/ (19" x 49" for the base) = .9667 psi
.9667 PSI x 144 sq inches/ 1 sq foot = 139.2 lbs/sq foot
139.2 / 40psf per joist = 3.48 joists THAT SHOULD BE COVERED by the base.
<Yes... given/stipulated the mass/weight is distributed as such... i.e. per square foot>
Since my stand is only 49" long, I'll only be able to cover three joists if I center it perfectly. Do you think it's worth putting 6-foot 2x4's flat
wise under the front and back lengths of the tank, so that I'm sure to distribute the weight across 4 joists... OR, do you think the sub flooring
will do a good enough job of distributing the weight to remote joists?
Maybe I'm just worrying unnecessarily about this. Of course, I'll put the
75 gallon right against one of the load bearing walls... well, maybe w/eight
inches or so away from the wall, so I can get behind the tank if needed.
<Good to have some gap for working on filters, hoses, backgrounds... allowing for air movement to discount mildew growth...>
What are your thoughts? Did I do the calculations right?
<Calc.s do look accurate>
Are those flat wise 2x4's necessary?
<IMO/E yes... perhaps a piece of plywood of sufficient thickness under the stand legs otherwise is better. Do count on shimming this as well. Bob Fenner>
Awaiting you sage advice. Thanks! :) -Russ
Questions...
Hi Again Bob,
I'm writing with the hope that you can answer a couple of questions for
me. Easy one first: do you have any horror stories about fish tanks
falling through people's floors? We're having a house built, and I was
thinking about having the floor in the family room reinforced for the
weight of my 150 gal. tank. It'll cost about $1000, and I'd just like
to know if you think that it's a necessary expense.
<None of them falling through completely... think of ladies with high heels on... and the force per square inch... If you can shim, spread out the force/weight of the tank, making it level and planar, a "code" built floor should take the 3/4 ton or so... However, nothing wrong with calling in an engineer for a real opinion is probably a real good idea>
Second question is a little more touchy. I recently started working at the LFS, so I could expand my knowledge base on the hobby (plus the
employee discount is saving me a bundle ;) ). The other day, a guy came in and we started chatting a bit. It turns out that he'd purchased
a nice 8" Naso Tang a couple of days earlier. During our conversation, it came out that he had this fish, along with a miniatus grouper and a
black Volitans lion imprisoned in a 55 gallon tank. I told him that his fish would quickly outgrow his tank, and asked if he was planning on
getting a bigger system, and he said no. Since you have so much experience in the pet fish industry, I was hoping you could give me some
insight as to how I can tactfully tell someone like this what an insensitive jerk they're being, without pissing them off. If it were my
store, I'd probably just tell them, but the owner of this one is more interested in the bottom line than he is in his livestock's best
interests. Any advice you might have would be helpful. Thanks a lot,
Dan
<<I do wish I could do "the Vulcan mind-meld" with you here... I recall (and borrow) the Zen
adage, "be like the Sun, and let the goodness in you shine on others"... By working at the shop, albeit for ulterior motives (I
don't doubt for a moment that you cherish your involvement in the living world as much as I), you have a great opportunity to share your love and knowledge of aquatics with others. Take heart in knowing this, and doing your best to educate and inspire our fellow hobbyists.
Bob Fenner>>
Tank Stand
Dear Robert,
Thanks to your answer. Not sure if I would want to experiment with corals....
<Some small fragments, carefully placed, might well add interest...>
I was wondering if you can enlighten me on this.
My tank would be sitting on the ground floor of my apartment complex, knowing that it will be heavy... many people said that
I would need to built a concrete platform about 2-3 inches of the ground to help distribute the weight of the tank and to prevent the floor from
developing cracks, is that true? I have seen a couple of people doing it......
<Mmm, this apartment complex... the floor IS a concrete foundation? If not, I would definitely investigate more thoroughly what weight it can safely support, and if this is a very large system, be pouring a substantial footing (likely a couple of feet thick...) under the area where the tank will be going... Call a "structural engineering" company, pay to have someone come out, look over...>
Also is it better to built a concrete tank stand? Will using hollow bricks be strong enough? Please advice
<What size tank, of what construction? If very large, glass viewing panels, would have the stand fabricated of steel, powder-coated... If not too big, large (like 4 by 4") wood elements, carriage bolts... If a few hundred gallons, blocks can be used... with wood,
Styro under the tank to make sure the bottom is level and planar. Please read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tksstds.htm
Bob Fenner>
Thanks in advance, John
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