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FAQs on Reef Filtration Designs Related Articles: Reef Filtration,
The ZEOvit System: A
New Concept in Reefkeeping by Alexander Girz,
Marine Filtration: Mechanical,
Physical, Use of/ Plenums, Reef
Systems, Reef Set-Up, Refugiums,
Nutrient Control and Export, Central Filtration Systems,
Technology:
Putting on the Brakes: How much is too much? By
Tommy Dornhoffer,
Related FAQs: Reef Filtration 1,
Reef
Filtration 2,
& FAQS on Reef Filtration:
Installation,
Maintenance,
Brands/Manufacturers,
DIY,
Troubleshooting/Repair,& By Type of System:
Small Tank Setups,
Large System Filtration/Circulation/Aeration,
& By Aspect and Gear:
Biol.:
Biological
Filtration,
Denitrification/Denitrifiers,
Fluidized
Beds,
DSBs,
Plenums,
Algal Filtration,
Mech.:
Marine Mechanical Filtration,
Power Filters, Outside
Power Filters,
Canister, Cartridge Filters,
Undergravel Filters, Wet-Dry Filters,
Phys.: Ultraviolet Sterilizers,
Ozone,
To
Skim or Not to Skim, Best Skimmer
FAQs,
Chem.: Nutrient
Control and Export, Chemical Filtrants (e.g. Polyfilter,
Chemipure, Purigen),
Carbon,
Mud/Algal
Filtration ,
Phony: Magnetic Field
Filtration,
& Troubles:
Bubbles,
Noise, &
Reef Systems 1,
Reef Systems 2,
Reef Set-Up 1, Reef Set-Up 2, Reef
Set-Up 3, Reef Set-Up 4, Reef
Set-Up 5, Reef Set-Up 6,
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MD.JPG)
The pay-offs are many
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Re: I have a problem with my Reef
Aquarium..... – 07/16/08
Thanks for your quick reply. I would like to point out that my LFS seem to
of pointed me in the wrong direction.
<... the onus is... upon you...>
Please could you tell me what you would do in my instance as in order to sort
this mess out as quickly and efficiently as my main interest is in the health of
my fish.
thank you
Phil.
<Uhh... read where you were referred to? As the saying goes... "if you think
education is expensive, try ignorance"... Educate yourself. BobF>
Re: I have a problem with my Reef
Aquarium..... – 07/16/08
Hi ya Bob again.
<Phil>
Further to your recent e-mail would it be possible if I can contact you via a
telephone as I'm feeling as if I need to speak to someone who knows what they
are talking about and I now have a lot of questions to ask that my LFS cant and
my aquarium needs quick and efficient rectifying. .
Thanks again.
Phil.
<Mmm, no. I don't "do calls"... as I'd likely be on the phone even more than the
Net! Not to be obtuse or appear selfish, I just don't have the time for such. I
do encourage you though to seek help from a local "guru"... Someone maybe the
LFS can identify, match you up with, or perhaps better, a local marine/reef
club... search on the Net re... to have them come over, review your system,
operation first hand, proffer their input. RMF>
Reef Filtration
Rich,
I read through Bob Fenner's book. In fact, that's why I'm emailing you guys!
I love the book, it just has so much information that I'm having a hard time
figuring out what's best for my reef tank.
>>Gotcha Laura!<<
I'm using a couple boxes of Eheim Substrat pro filter medium. Is that good to
use in the sump above a carbon filter?
>>If I remember correctly, the Eheim stuff is a biological medium, and you don't
really need it if you have a bunch of 'live' rock or sand.
Should I just stay with the sump,
Substrat and modify the overflow to quiet it down?
>>That sounds easiest, just remove the bio media. Remember the sump really is just
a container of water that you can also keep stuff in. So if you can just find a
tank that will fit under your main tank that is cheaper then the wet dry system,
I say go for it. Or you can find a sump that isn't made as a wet try.
The only way to quiet down the overflow is to modify yourself, or find someone
to do it for you.<<
What do you recommend I
get for a really quiet skimmer?
>>If you are going in sump, I like the Euro Reefs. They all will make some noise
though.<<
Also, I may not have enough room for the
skimmer in the sump - should I modify things so that the pump is on the
outside so that I can put the skimmer in the sump?
>>That's a personal call. If it were me, and by moving the return pump I could
then put the skimmer inside the sump I would - if my alternative were a hang on
back. HOB skimmers are fine, but they tend not to be as strong as the other
models.<<
Laura
WWM FAQ Crew,
I forgot to thank you very much for your quick response and helpful
information!
>> Thanks!
I forgot to mention that the guy who sold me the wet/dry
suggested I go with a canister for my reef tank. I'm looking forward to your
response on the best system to go with my 55 gallon tank that is also the
quietest!
Laura
>> Canisters and bio balls in the wet dry suffer from the same condition - they
are a place for any kind of detritus to settle and rot. So, unless you can clean
them often (and you don't really want to clean bio balls at all because you can
wash of the beneficial bacteria) the become 'nitrate factories'. You can use the
canister as circulation or as an occasional place to put carbon, but other than
that you really don't want any media in there.
>>As for the 'best' system, ummm, errrg, its not that simple. Virtually every
system is custom for one reason or another as you are learning with wanting to
quiet it down. If you don't already have a good reef book I suggest Bob Fenner's
"Conscientious Marine Aquarist" or Delbeek and Sprung's "The Reef Aquarium Vol
1". Either will give you a good overview of all your options. Then if you have
questions
>>Rich
>>The sump itself is fine, what you don't want is to have it stuffed with bio
balls or other media.
I still have time to return the wet dry sump. What do you recommend I
replace it with?
> Hi! I had a tank set up for me and the sound that the overflow is making
is so bad that I'm just about to through in the towel on marine aquaria (no
pun intended). If I can't make the sound more tolerable I might have to
change my mind about having a big tank. I would really like to have a full
blown reef eventually but I haven't even added the skimmer yet which will
make even more noise. Are there any REALLY quiet filter systems and hang-on
skimmers? What should I do? Have the glass tank drilled? Switch from my
wet/dry sump to something else? Everything is set-up and running so I'm
afraid to tear everything down and get everything drilled and re-set-up and
not have it meet the standards of peacefulness. Are there any other
relatively simple options we could work on putting together to make for a
virtually noise-free system?
> Thank you!
> Laura
> >>Hi Laura, don't worry! There are options! It sound like you have a hang
on back, external overflow and that is where the noise is coming from. Go to
www.dursostandpipes.com, click on popular modifications, and click on
external overflow. It is a simple mod that makes a big difference. If I
misunderstood, please let me know.
> If you want a full blown reef, you might want to look into the whole wet
dry thing, as they aren't really recommended for reefs anymore - regardless
of what the people who sold it to you may have said.
> There are quiet in sump skimmers, and ways to quiet them even further, as
well as quiet hang on back skimmers. When you get to that point let us know!
> Rich
It's All On The Site - 11/11/2005
I'm sorry if I'm repeating a question,
<Many, actually.>
but I've looked on the site and I'm still a little confused.
<Much that you find confusing now can be alleviated with time, patience, and research. No worries.>
I'm new at the whole saltwater reef tank thing. I have a freshwater 90 gallon right now that I want to convert to a reef tank soon. But I'm not sure what kind of filtration to use....
<Much, much to learn, here....>
I've heard refugium is the best way to go but.... I'm not really sure how that works... do I need a wet dry to run a refugium??
<No, not necessarily.... start reading.>
<<Not at all. Do what the nice lady says, please.
MH>>
Also.. I know I'll need a protein skimmer but.... what exactly does a protein skimmer do? What is it?
<Removes dissolved organics from the water; again, read.... http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm . Much on skimmers here, also on other filtration methods including refugiums.>
<<Foam fractionation is actually a rather old form of
"chemical" filtration, and has many, many uses, including in some food
production and refinement of certain products. Google "foam
fractionation". MH>>
Also, if I go with the refugium setup, what all do I need to buy to get it up and running?
<Too many possibilities, too much information to impart in a mere email. Start with that link, and get crackin'.... you'll need to form your own opinions on these very subjective questions.>
Thank you for your time. -Kurt
<Wishing you well, -Sabrina> Are Refugiums and Sumps Mandatory? 11/3/05
Greetings,
<Hi Brad!>
Brad B. here. I've been reading a lot on your web site to try an educate myself, answer questions and get ideas. I'm trying to be a good steward
and have a basic question. First, here's my scoop: 46 g bow front marine aquarium / 60 lbs of live reef sand / mix of rock and live rock - a good
coverage of LR but not all that much weight as I chose specimens with good color and surface area but light (save $$) / two Emperor 280s
(fiber media plus activated carbon cartridges) / AquaC Remora skimmer with MaxiJet 1200 / two AquaClear 50s and two AquaClear 30s for
circulation / Coralife 36" with a 96W Actinic, 96W 10,000K white, and two lunar LEDs on a timer - Actinic = 12 hrs and White 10,000K 8
hrs... okay...
Can I expect good success (such as getting/keeping nitrates near zero) with a low fish load - inverts -
corals given the above stated setup without adding a sump or refugium?
<Brad of course it is possible to get away without a refugium or a sump. Though I will say a refugium is in my opinion a great asset to any marine tank, not only as a
nutrient export device as a breeding ground for detritivores and micro-fauna. The sump is a great place to hide equipment and improve the aesthetics of the display. And both the refugium and the sump increase your water volume and thus your margin of error.
Having said that yes, as I stated above these are not mandatory. However the heavier maintenance because of the lack of these devices will fall on you. You may need to
perform extra water changes; and yes I would understock your tank as far as fish.>
I want to/did invest in good stuff but want to keep it simple as possible. Many thanks!
<Welcome Adam J.>
Re: Refugium or Sump Mandatory? 11/4/05
Thanks for the reply.
<You are welcome.>
If I were to add one of these products which would you recommend and how?
<For your set-up a hang on variety could work, they are pretty much plug and play.>
I'm having a hard time finding setup instructions. I found hang-on type refugiums online but my tank's back
rim real estate is pretty much maxed out between my two Emperor filters
<I would rather remove one or both Emperor filters if I had to choose between them and the 'fuge. The 'fuge is of much more
benefit in my opinion.>
<<Not just your opinion, definitely would be of better utility
here. MH>>
and AquaC Remora hang-on skimmer. Again, I'm looking for the best simple/effective installation that is appropriate for my setup.
<The skimmer/refugium combo is about s simple and efficient s it gets.>
Also, my 46 gal bow front tank stand does not provide a lot of floor space to put
things.
<I thin the hang-on is the best option for you.>
Thanks again for your help.
<Welcome, Adam J.>
Refugium/Sump Round III - 11/4/05
I just ran across an Aqua Clear Aquatics Mud 90 Sump Filter. Good unit?
<AquaClear is a reputable company but I am not familiar with this product.>
If so, any recommendation on the "mud" or substrate? I guess I'm not exactly sure how they work just yet but I've heard of using DSBs and
then the website sells "mud".
<The mud and the DSB are supposed to serve the same purpose (nitrification/micro-fauna
breeding grounds) For more on what a refugium does and what a DSB/Mud filter does search WWM. Adam J.>
<<Or buy "The Natural Marine Aquarium - Reef
Invertebrates". MH>>
Major Remodeling (Tank Reconfiguration) 11/16/05
Hey guys great site!
<Thanks for the kind words! Scott F. here today!>
I know you are busy so I will get right to it. I have been running an undergravel system (powered by two power heads) in my 75 g marine tank for years. I also run two (for lack of knowing what to call them) "hang on" filters on the back of the tank that cycle the water through carbon filtration. All has been well until I began to finally get into corals.
<Ahh...the coral bug has bitten...>
I currently have a colony of Xenia, a Pink Bubble Coral, Frogspawn, a couple of Ricordea, and some Green Star Polyps. I also have live rock in my tank as well as some Clownfish, Tangs, a Koran Angel, Large Green Chromis, Cleaner Shrimp, Hermits, and snails
etc. .
My question is this: can I phase out the undergravel system and update to a more "reef friendly" set up. I hate the crushed coral bottom and would love to go to live sand as well as do whatever necessary to give my corals the ideal conditions to grow and spread. Is it possible?
<Well, I would be inclined not to remove the UG filter plate after you stop using it, unless you do plan on removing the
substrate as well (Sounds like you do want to switch substrate, however). I am in favor of setups utilizing sumps for water processing. If it were me, I'd view this as a complete "re-start" of the system, if your intent is to switch over substrate and filtration methodology. The tank will have to go through a new cycling process, just as if it were brand new (which it essentially will be!). BTW, the Koran will get pretty large, and cannot be considered a "coral safe" fish for an indefinite period of time.>
What do I replace it with? How fast should I make the transition?
<Sump-based systems are the way to go, IMO. You'd be wise to set up temporary quarters for your animals as you "remodel" the system. Proceed slowly, and study these types of systems before you make the move. Don't skimp on the equipment, particularly lighting and protein skimming. These items will make a huge difference for you down the line. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>
Experimental staging tank - 02/09/2007
Hi Bob/Crew,
If you would allow me to prevail upon your collective wisdom...
<Well, just my small part>
I have reached a point where I need a sanity check in designing an
Experimental 4 Ft tank that will currently serve as a pre-staging area
for a larger 600 litre reef tank which will not be filled for another 6
months or more, as I wish to plan it very carefully (oh YES..........
there will be questions!...., but still researching for now). When the
Main tank is completed this Experimental tank will become a
fragging/quarantine tank. (Ever had a wood grain 600 litre tank in your
living room that you must resist filling......
<You HAVE got discipline!>
yes, I have nerves of steel, and laugh in the face of the spindly
killer fish) Please be tolerant (cover you mouth when you laugh) , some
of my notions may not be practical , but I have devoted many hours of
research and planning, and literally hundreds of hours on your website
over the last couple of years (no joke). I am attempting to build a
small sump/refugium which will take care of wet/dry nitrate production,
skimming and denitrification ,.... in that order actually. Have attached
a pic, tried very hard to make it clear and understandable, hopefully
succeeded. I am aware that this is a fairly small sump and refugium, but
I am struggling for space. The basic concept is :
Partition one :
Loose floating bioballs under the dump pipe with 2000 LPH Air/Water Pump
<Mmm, why this here? I'd rely on gravity>
to skimmer and overflow to partition two (skimmer). Hopefully being
agitated by water flow will help prevent debris trapping and will
nitrify my ammonia/nitrite for me without becoming too much of a debris
trap.
<Shouldn't be an issue>
Partition two:
Aqua-One SK388 Skimmer (took your advice and got one at last) with
enclosed, perforated plastic boxes full of ceramic noodles beside it,
overflowing to Refugium. OK here's the part where I want you to try not
to laugh...... The idea being to encourage an anaerobic environment in
the boxes for Denitrification whilst still maintaining the 1ppm O2 plus
requirement to prevent Sulfide production, I may "feed" these suckers
carbon, or I may not, do you think I should?
<I would>
Do you know how I can tell if these become Sulfur factories? .
<Likely won't... but might smell it if so>
On the bright side, if they don't work, I can just pull them out since
they're boxed.
<Yes>
Partition/Box three:
Refugium with Live Rock (a little) , Ulva as Macro algae (readily
available to me from sea)
<Mmm... Ulvales are not the easiest macros to culture...>
and either a DSB or whatever brand of Mud I can get here in Australia if
any (we really lag a long way behind you guys in marine technology, half
the stuff you guys talk about we just can't get here. Even something as
simple as Aragonite is not easy to find, in Melbourne anyway!) 2000 LPH
Water pump (will probably enclose) returning to Spray bar.
<Mmm, do look into Loc-line... other distribution here>
should I tee this back to the refugium now , or just wait and see what
the flow is like? Do you think I would be pushing it to try for a DSB in
this tiny and short refugium?
<I'd arrange bypass of some of the flow here... with adjustable weirs
perhaps>
Only have 2mm Coral sand at the moment and feel I would probably have to
go about 4-5 inches plus to make it anaerobic, don't think it will
fit?? How deep does miracle mud etc need to be?
<An inch or more... you might be able to collect your own...>
Well , what do you think?, have I gone mad at last? I really hope so,
would explain so much..... I feel constantly nagged by the concept of a
wet/dry being so good at Nitrate production and yet not being able to
find anything stable other than live rock or DSB's to deal with the
Nitrates, not interested in
chemical treatments , not an elegant solution. I realize water changes
will still be necessary , but am trying to build as stable an ecosystem
as I can manage.
<You have many good ideas here... But I would add another intake drain
of about the stated 1 1/2" size, and do away with the valve
illustrated... not necessary>
In the same vein of questioning, have seen Anthony and others comment
that submerged bioballs are a bad idea, but I can't work out why?
<Inherent design... much more useful in oxygen rich environments... not
sat. (7,8 ppm.) vs. 210,000 ppm...>
seems to me that if you had a coarse prefilter, flowing to some wet/dry
bioballs followed closely by some submerged bioballs in an area of low
O2,(ie Debris
filter->Nitrification->Denitrification) this should be good, .. no?
<Mmm, no... presence, even hypoxia negates anaerobic microbe metabolism,
presence>
Is it because the balls are just not porous enough to foster anaerobic
conditions?
<This and a lack of surface area per volume>
The reason I ask is because , in a misguided moment (listened to LFS. Ho
Ho..) I purchased a 2600 LPH Minjiang Canister filter with 5W UV for
the 600 litre tank when I bought it ( as they said the glass was
probably tempered and couldn't be drilled) then I went one worse and
bought a stack of bioballs to put in it. The thing is... when I watch
the hoses with the air valves shut completely, I see no air going in and
none coming out, does this mean I can assume
it's at least partly anaerobic in there, or is there so much dissolved
O2 that this is never possible while it's flowing.
<Bingo>
I just want to know if I'm doomed to high nitrates and frequent water
changes in the 600 litre display , or if there is some way I can still
use the canister for bio - filtration but avoid this.
<Canisters... not really useful for denitrification... too much flow,
too little media volume... though use of sintered glass, ceramic
media...>
Do you know of any other way I could filter a system that can't be
drilled besides a canister? (Oops , there I go.. said I wasn't going to
discuss the 600 litre now.... sorry ). I can leave the canister doing
just mechanical and chemical and circulation , but I really think this
is a waste, although I will have a Weipro 2014 Hang on skimmer and Live
rock as well.
<Do look into having this tank drilled... yes, though tempered, can be
done... the larger LFS, glass shops...>
By the way CMA and Reef Inverts are very difficult books to get in Oz,
<See Readingtrees.com for Antoine's distributors there>
everyone I've asked says 3- 4 months wait , do you have a distributor
here, or will I have to get them online? Which book do you think I would
benefit more from with respect to reef keeping?
<Modern Coral Reef Aquarium series by Fossa and Nilsen>
Are you tired of seeing question marks??
<Not yet>
Apologies for the essay, but it did say in the FAQs that you prefer all
your questions at once, hope it's not too laborious to get through.
Thanks for your time -Rama
<Welcome, BobF>
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Experimental staging tank, Continued - 02/11/2007
Bob,
thanks very much for taking a look at my plans,
But of course one answer generates ten questions............ .
<Ah, yes>
I am attempting to build a small sump/refugium which will take care of
wet/dry nitrate production, skimming and denitrification ,.... in that
order actually.
Have attached a pic, tried very hard to make it clear and
understandable,
hopefully succeeded.
I am aware that this is a fairly small sump and refugium, but I am
struggling for space. The basic concept is :
Partition one :
Loose floating bioballs under the dump pipe with 2000 LPH Air/Water Pump
<Mmm, why this here? I'd rely on gravity>
<<The venturi? (probably not correct term for this) that came with the
skimmer is designed to sit on the front of a specific pump intake and is
very effective, I'm not sure of a good way of getting it inline with the
down pipe like a normal venturi, hence decided to stick with pump, plus
wasn't sure what force was going to be generated.. >>
>Ahh, sorry for this... Yes, the skimmer will need this pump... and/but
the skimmer needs to be in a "partition" entirely, or there to be an
overflow of incoming water... not possible to balance the overflow from
the main tank...<
to skimmer and overflow to Partition two (skimmer). Hopefully being
agitated by water flow will help prevent debris trapping and will
nitrify
my ammonia/nitrite for me without becoming too much of a debris trap.
<Shouldn't be an issue>
Partition/Box three:
Refugium with Live Rock (a little) , Ulva as Macro algae (readily
available to me from sea)
<Mmm... Ulvales are not the easiest macros to culture...>
<<Hmm... this is true... have tried before with Ulva in display tank
which
gradually diminished to nothing, but had the feeling someone was
munching
on it ,(maybe Pseudochromis bicolor?),
>Not likely to its exclusion<
will see if Chaetomorpha
(prolifera?) is available, but doubt it.>>
>Ask around... other national hobbyists...<
..2000 LPH Water pump (will probably enclose) returning
to Spray bar.
<Mmm, do look into Loc-line... other distribution here>
<<What's wrong with the Spray bar?, not enough movement?>>
>That... from restriction and the loss of ability to direct, re-direct
flow direction<
should I tee this back to the refugium now , or just wait
and see what the flow is like?
Do you think I would be pushing it to try for a DSB in this tiny and
short
refugium?
<I'd arrange bypass of some of the flow here... with adjustable weirs
perhaps>
<<Don't think I have enough space to employ adjustable weirs (only
about
30cm X 30cm), maybe the tee from return going back to refugium , with
just pump in a weir?>>
>A good idea, yes<
Only have 2mm Coral sand at the moment and feel I would probably
have to go about 4-5 inches plus to make it anaerobic, don't think it
will fit??
<<would the inches here be right?>>
>Yes<
How deep does miracle mud etc need to be?
<An inch or more... you might be able to collect your own...>
<<Don't think I'm brave enough, any clues on how to tell what sort?,
have
ordered some CaribSea Aragamax online in any case, managed to find
some.... Whew, not cheap!, do you think 3 inches of sugar-fine will do,
or
am I being stingy to my detriment !>>
>Should be fine<
<You have many good ideas here... But I would add another intake drain
of
about the stated 1 1/2" size, and do away with the valve illustrated...
not necessary>
<<Valve/Tap is mainly just so I can turn off flow to work/clean in
sump>>
>Do please check, make sure that in the event of a power or pump failure
the water will not overwhelm the sump<
In the same vein of questioning, have seen Anthony and others comment
that
submerged bioballs are a bad idea, but I can't work out why? ,
<Inherent design... much more useful in oxygen rich environments... not
sat. (7,8 ppm.) vs. 210,000 ppm...>
<< Do you mean that 7-8ppm would be submerged...vs. Wet/Dry at
210,000ppm?
>Yes<
I realize this is better for Nitrification, just wanted to know if you
can
use them in more anaerobic conditions for Denitrification?>>
>No, cannot be used for such<
seems to me
that if you had a coarse prefilter, flowing to some wet/dry bioballs
followed closely by some submerged bioballs in an area of low O2,(ie
Debris
filter->Nitrification->Denitrification) this should be good, .. no?
<Mmm, no... presence, even hypoxia negates anaerobic microbe metabolism,
presence>
<<Whoa!.. sorry, lost you here ,....presence of what?,
>Of any measurable dissolved oxygen<
are you saying that
Anaerobes don't likely completely hypoxic conditions?>>
Is it because the balls are just not porous enough to foster anaerobic
conditions?
>Correct<
<This and a lack of surface area per volume>
.....<Canisters... not really useful for denitrification... too much
flow,
too little media volume... though use of sintered glass, ceramic
media...>
<< Does this mean if I use something like Aqua-one CeramiSub (looks a
bit
like ceramic live rock rubble) that I just bought, I might foster some
small anaerobic pockets in this canister of mine, otherwise I may have
to
try for a hang-on 'fuge, not likely to get past management though (yes
...
married)>>
>I would use such material... though, you are correct that it is of
little use in such a setting (canister)<
Do you know of any other way I could filter a
system that can't be drilled besides a canister? (Oops , there I go..
said
I wasn't going to discuss the 600 litre now.... sorry ). I can leave the
canister doing just mechanical and chemical and circulation , but I
really
think this is a waste, although I will have a Weipro 2014 Hang on
skimmer
and Live rock as well.
<Do look into having this tank drilled... yes, though tempered, can be
done... the larger LFS, glass shops...>
<< Can't seem to find anyone prepared to do it ( even had to drill my
own
hole on the experimental tank ... 1 hour with a Dremel and a diamond
engraving bit/water.... whew!!),
>Nerves... and patience for sure<
and I understand that if I do find
someone to do it, they won't take responsibility. Blew the budget with
this tank , if they break it it's over., can't afford to replace.... : -
(
Actually, I originally spent over a week designing (copying.. ) and
building a beautiful hang on overflow siphon box, only to throw it in
the
bin after reading more negative opinions on WetWeb and thinking long and
hard about the anxiety factor at 4 am, ah well..>>
Which book do you think I would
benefit more from with respect to reef keeping?
<Modern Coral Reef Aquarium series by Fossa and Nilsen>
<< Are you just being modest here, I was referring to CMA vs. Reef
Inverts., was hoping to buy one of these to support your hard work. If
you
truly think the Fossa book will be better for me I will get it, but
would
still like a copy of Reef Inverts.>>
Thanks again
Rama
>Ahh... Your writing presents itself as you being a bit beyond CMA, yet,
yes to the RI book... I do believe you would gain by its perusal...
enjoyably even! Cheers, BobF> |
Marine Filtration 9/27/07 – 9/27/07
Hello all (esp. Scott F.).
<Hi Stan, James with you today.>
After avoiding a mistake (putting too many or too big a fish in my 75 gallon
tank), I am now focusing on filter design and set-up, and committing to wait at
least a month before adding any livestock. I now have my kids doing research
with me, so they understand proper husbandry and care requirements (okay, they
are 3 and 6, but they are at least involved).
<Ah, no better time to get them started.>
It looks like I am going to set up a fish only tank (with small fish!) then
converting over to a reef set up later on, so I want to make sure that my sump
design is on target. I am looking at a 29 gallon sump, which will hold about 12
gallons or so in the lower portion, with a separate refugium chamber fed by a
powerhead (expect about 150 gph) which will flow back into the main sump. I'll
use the refugium chamber as a bubble trap, along with a filter pad on each end.
For skimming, I'll have an Aqua-C Remora on the main tank. Flow through the sump
itself should be about 450 gph.
The display will have 80 lbs of base rock, along with a 1" bed of live sand, and
about 10 lbs of Tonga live rock to seed the base rock and add some variation to
the look.
In the refugium, I plan on placing a 5" DSB along with 5-10 lbs of live rock
rubble.
<I'd go no more than 3">
I hope to order some benthic organisms and macroalgae online, as my LFS doesn't
have them.
Question...will this set up work for a reef tank (I'll add more circulation via
a closed loop at that point) as well as for my small fish only system?
<Should be no problem but I'd go with more live rock before you convert it to
reef. It would take quite some time for the 10 pounds on Tonga to seed the 80
pounds of base rock.>
I keep searching and reading, and I am especially grateful (and impressed) that
there is a common thread with all your responses, and no real contradiction of
information.
<Why thank you.>
Thanks again for all you guys do!
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Stan
Should I Use A Canister
Filter? - 12/31/07
Hi Eric or whoever is on duty this evening,
<<Hiya Ken...Eric here>>
My 90 gallon SPS tank is doing great.
<<Excellent>>
I recently set up a second tank primarily for a RBTA and a pair of Clarkii clown
fish.
<<Neat!>>
I will probably add another 4 small fish and some star polyps and mushrooms at
some point.
<<Mmm, too bad...the tank/anemone would fare much better in the long term
without the polyps and mushrooms trying to constantly poison it>>
The tank is a 46 gallon bow (3 foot length) with about 65 pounds of live rock,
TEK 5 T5 lighting, two Tunze 6025 Nano Stream powerheads, and a Deltec hang on
back skimmer. I am not using a sump. Even though I can make a large % water
change with a couple of buckets of new water, or water from my SPS tank with
this size tank if I ever run into trouble, I was wondering if I should add a
canister filter to my set up?
<<I would...for chemical filtration (carbon/Poly-Filter)>>
If I did this, I would not use the bio media or noodles, and just use the sponge
for mechanical filtration to trap debris.
<<If you do...be sure to clean the filter sponge of detritus one or more times a
week, else the canister filter will become more of a "problem" than a
"solution">>
I could also use it for PhosBan etc if needed.
<<Indeed>>
I have no mechanical filtration in my SPS tank, but the debris eventually will
end up in my sump which I can then clean out.
<<Agreed... And with good strong water flow, the suspended detritus (or marine
snow, if you like) is actually quite good "food" for your corals>>
This tank has no sump. I of course will have a clean up crew for the tank. Do
you think the canister filter is a good idea or a waste of money?
<<Can be quite useful, as described/when maintained properly>>
If it is a good idea, is Eheim still the way to go?
<<Many choices available these days...but you won't go wrong with the Eheim
product>>
Thanks,
Ken
<<Happy to help. EricR>>
Filtration Recommendations,
Protein Skimmers, Refugium – 1/2/08
Brenda et al,
<Art>
Thanks for responding to my fishy questions!
<You’re welcome!>
I have a 45 gallon saltwater aquarium FOWLR and will gradually change to a
beginning reef fish tank with your help and LFS. Currently I have a wet/dry
filter and typically a nitrate factory. I invested in this when I started my
aquarium 8/30/07. I regret my newbie choice in the filtration.
<You’re not alone in the regrets of a newbie. We’ve all been there.>
Could you provide specific brand and type of filtration that I might replace it
with this New Year 08? I have 5 small damsels, 2 gobies, 1 small clown fish, 12
assorted hermit crabs, 1 black urchin, 1 brown crab and several small/med
snails. I have 40 #s of LR.
<A good protein skimmer is your best option here. I recommend a lot of research
on protein skimmers before you purchase. There are a lot of poor choices that
can be made. I personally use the Aqua C skimmers for my reef tanks. More
information here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i1/protein_skimmer_impressions.htm and here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/proskimrart2.htm . Read through the FAQ’s regarding
skimmers. I also use and recommend a refugium. More information found here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/refugium.htm . You will want to read all the articles
and FAQ’s associated with refugiums.
Thanks, Art
<You’re welcome! Hope this helps! Brenda>
Filtration and flow
I have a 54 corner tank that is reef/fish and I am wondering if 50 lbs live rock and my
CPR back pack 2r with carbon and phosphate removal in a biomedia bag put in the return chamber is enough for filtration? I have two rio 1100 for flow in the 54 corner, is that enough again it is a reef/fish tank.
>>
Call me a worry wart, but I would add a bit of redundancy here for your 54... Either a BIG hang on power filter, or a good canister filter....like an Eheim...
The added biological, mechanical filtration at minimal operating cost will give you needed aeration, circulation, flexibility, margin for error... and peace of mind.
Bob Fenner
100 gallon reef/fish tank, filtration choices, sources
I've written a couple of times about the 100 gallon and thanks for your recommendations. I have finally gotten the filtration (sort of) and stand out of the way now on to lighting.
<Hmm>
My tank is 60'' long. I have been looking at the pc fixtures offered by championlighting and FF Xpress
<Two good choices>
Question:
1) I have noticed the light tubes are not 60''. They are somewhat shorter and inside the hood the bulbs overlap in the middle. This leaves about 6'' on either end of the fixture that is not covered by all four tubes but only two tubes. From my understanding, I would say the middle of the fixture is giving 4x 96 watts but the 6'' on either end of the fixture is giving 2x96 watts. Is this correct? Will the difference be enough to cause dead spots? Does it matter?
<Good points, and practically speaking... not much...>
2) VHO bulbs are 60'' and it seems to me they would give a better distribution of light but I don't really know how I feel about the "180 degree built in reflector. . ."
<With a white reflector above and to the sides this is a minor concern>
3) I've been looking at these new refugiums that hang on the back of the aquarium and are sold by Petwarehouse among others (about $100). The one I'm looking at is 24'' long and 4'' wide. Is this type of refugium worth having?
<Absolutely... a friend and I experimented with making ones about like this (now made by/for CPR, Ecosystem...) and never got "to market", but have them working (now for years) on tanks here... they work.>
4) I have been reading GARF and the plenum idea appeals to me. Some other authors write that plenums work but a delicate balance is needed and plenums have the possibility of causing real problems with the tank. Assuming that you recommend having a plenum. . .could I use undergravel filter plates (stop up the pump hole) as a plenum?
<Yes to all>
I have nightmares about having 100 lbs of live rock in a tank and having to take all of it out because the plenum isn't
functioning. Plenum--Refugium---Plenum----Refugium---BOTH? HELP!!! Other currently used filtration includes an Eheim canister and a Remora Aqua C skimmer.
<Both would be better than just either one>
5) Would a sump with some live sand, Caulerpa spp., and live rock cancel the need for either a refugium or a plenum?
<Hmm, supplant, yes, to a large degree...>
As always, thanks for your generous (product unbiased) opinions. I'm trying to be budget conscious but jeez, there's so much equipment it's hard to tell what's needed. I called the guys at
GARF about these questions and they wouldn't talk about anything they don't sell. Surprising . . .
<Not surprising... but disappointing.>
I want you guys to get an online store where I can use the good old debit card to buy books and more. . .at good prices. . . .
<Yikesville! Another job!? Will send this suggestion along.>
Friend in Fish, David Dowless
<Thank you my friend. Bob Fenner>
Reef Filtration
Dear Bob, I know you are a very busy man and answer some questions
hundreds of times. I would like to thank you in advance for any help you
could be to me.
<You're welcome>
I have a 125 all glass tank the lighting is 2 40 w actinics 2 40 w super
daylight and 175 w MH 10000 the act lights come on at 6 am the daylights
at 7 and the MH at 8 they go off MH at 7 day at 8 and act at 9 does this
seem ok?
<Yes, for...?>
I am using 75 lbs live sand and 90 lbs live rock I also have a
twenty gallon tank that I use as a sump where I run a Berlin skimmer powered by
a rio 3100 the return pump is a rio 1700 The over flow is a small hang on type
with a small foam prefilter. Is this sufficient for this size of tank I also
have a rio 1700 and the return and one other
power head for circulation in the main tank.
<Sounds good so far>
The tank has been setup for four weeks I've already added two clowns a
dragon wrasse sleeper goby scooter blenny red brittle star a serpent
star a few scarlet crabs Astrea snails and Nassarius snails a Condylactis
an and a carpet an.
<Yikes... slow down on that stocking...>
I plan to more to my clean up crew this weekend.
<For browsers here, I'd have added the clean up crew only by now...>
I
really hated to add all of this to tank this sooner but I already had
these creatures in another tank and due to certain things could not wait
any longer however everything seems to be doing fine except my ph is 8.6
and I have green algae which covers all the glass daily I clean the
front but leave the rest till I can get a better cleanup crew.
<Ah, starting to make more sense>
I plan to keep some soft corals and polyps and probably 3 or 4 more fish. Is
there
anything I should change in this set up and could you advise any
additives right now I just plan to use b-ionic 2 part for alk and
calcium.
Thanks Randy and Tina
<Do just keep an eye on alkalinity and your calcium levels. All should work out soon... will you be adding lighting and macro-algae to the sump? Bob Fenner>
Re: Reef Filtration
Hi Bob thanks for the and yes I would like to add macro algae to my sump but I
think I will have to wait till I can build a bigger one as it is crowded as it
is and there is no room for rock or sand. Thanks Randy and Tina
<Ah, sounds good. Be chatting my friends. Bob Fenner>
Before I buy the lighting (reef filtration)
One more question. I have been reading night and day lately about keeping a
reef. I have read about sumps, refugiums, wet/dry filters, etc. At this point, I
know very little about these pieces of equipment. I will learn but could you
give me a heads-up if I can maintain a reef without these items.
<Yes, you can... these tools can just make the whole project simpler, more
predictable by providing more constant, faster reacting filtration, more
volume>
Before I spend $400 for lights, I want to know if I can have a nice, healthy
reef with the following setup:
55g standard
45 lbs Fiji LR
~4" DSB (120 lbs HD Southdown sand)
PC (which ones yet to be determined)
Hang on Protein skimmer (currently on tank)
Hang on AquaClear mechanical filter (currently on tank)
2 power heads (one back left, one back right)
One airstone
Can I keep a nice reef? Can I keep all inverts, possibly including hard corals
and a clam?
<Yes, yes... but would definitely add more mechanical filtration here... w/o
this, you will have a too-narrow safety margin (even if tank/system in
"balance" overall) and could have real trouble should
"something" go wrong... Do consider a sump here... and keep
studying... more fun, discoveries to come. Bob Fenner>
Thanks for the continued help!
Susie
LFS concerns
I have spoke with him before, he just happens to be my neighbor. Marine
aquariums are not big here...about 6 ppl, the only saltwater tank he has is his
display.
<You just got to keep trying with this guy. I have the same problem. There is
an LFS here in Vegas that houses all (including SPS!) of his corals under about
1.5 watts per gallon of regular fluorescents until they are sold which often
takes weeks or even months. Anything that isn't sold within the first month dies
quickly thereafter. I've tried to explain to this guy why the corals don't
survive (lighting...DUH!). He said none of the corals needed light because he
fed them daily with mysis and brine shrimp!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!! Ignorance is
curable. When ignorance is mixed with stupidity, the situation is hopeless,
IMO>
With the next LFS not really local at 3 hours away, the prices are unbelievably
high.
<Buy a lot of stuff in one trip or keep trying to educate this other LFS>
It was a real culture shock moving to this area 7 years ago, and until 2 years
ago... he had no marines. So this is why I just can't understand him
at least taking his diseased fish out of the display, especially since I have
doubts that his supplier would credit him for a fish he has had for at least 7
weeks.
<Shop owners have ways to get the credit. The next time he receives a
shipment of tangs he'll just report one or more of the new ones as
"dead." If the LFS has a long term relationship with the supplier, he
most likely won't need to produce a carcass>
My contact with ppl that knew anything at all about saltwater tanks has been
non-existent, and finding WWM has been like finding an oasis.
<Fantastic!>
It's funny to see how much things have changed though, especially as far as
filtration and tank setup. Now I am looking at my setup and wondering what
I should do to improve it. I've been running a Marineland magnum 350
with it's output split to it's standard output and a bio-wheel pro 30,
Marineland 660 powerhead just for extra circulation at bottom, and my soon to be
replaced Skilter 250. I have had this setup since 94 on a Oceanic 55g FO with
very light bio loads The Skilter will be replaced by aqua c remora,
not sure if I should get the pro or not for this size tank. I had
wanted to add another canister (Fluval 404)with the suction line opposite my
magnum, but after reading the horror's
ppl have had with canisters... I'm not sure now. I have always done
ok with canisters though. I will be slowly adding LR and upgrading my
lighting, but nothing for the next 6 months except for maybe 10#'s of LR to see
how it goes. Any comments on
altering/changing filtration short of a sump would be helpful.
<For a reef tank? Consider a plenum with deep sandbed. The mechanical
filtration that you have is adequate but it will eventually produce lots of
nitrates. If this is a FO that will not be a problem. In a reef tank it will
eventually be problematic. At least get a really good skimmer and get it pulling
lots of stuff out of the water ASAP>
-Chris
<David Dowless>
Reef Filtration
What should the filtration on a 200 gal reef system be? What is optimum I mean ?
<this is determined by the intended bio-load (largely feeding and fish levels/mass). On average... a lot of live rock, two skimmers cleaned alternately and modest chemical filtration is all that is needed. Simple and natural>
There will be a Heteractis Magnifica in this tank also so I don't know if that will put a hamper on the filtration needs.
<anemones do not belong in reef tanks... they are nightmares and I would bet VERY good money that your anemone will die if not cause a major disaster in this tank within 2 years like most in mixed invert gardens
do. Many reasons for this not the least of which is the fact that you are placing a motile stinging
Cnidarian in with sessile stinging cnidarians (coral). This is especially true is you intend to have any LPS corals like Hammer, Octopus, Galaxea, Elegant, etc. Please keep this anemone in a sun lit species specific tank if you must have one>
Wet/dry ,
<nix the W/D... an unnecessary nitrate producing machine unless you will have a heavy fish load>
Chemical, Biological, Skimming,
<all good>
UV,
<also unnecessary unless you are building a phyto reactor for it. Else it will kill desirable plankton. If used for disease control... save your money and set up a proper quarantine tank instead>
etc. There will also be at least 200 lbs of live rock and some various fish and inverts and maybe a few corals. There a 2 coral life MH over it and that is it. I am thinking of adding a coral life combo hood
MH/fluorescent to it also so 4 MH a 2 fluorescent. Is this adequate for a Magnifica and some corals?
<yes...likely, although I wouldn't take coral life MH lamps/fixtures for free. Do consult message boards on this topic for an intelligent consensus>
IS there a grave possibility this species of anemone will eat my fish
<nope... it will get stung by a coral or die in an intake/overflow strainer first>
and if so is there a better large anemone?
<most anemones are somewhat to very challenging to keep. My advice is to admire them from afar. They also suffer terribly from collections where many/most coral are unaffected. A conscientious choice>
Any and all you help is greatly appreciated.
John fin)
P.S. The corals I am wanting to add are Acroporas and maybe and anchor or possibly
an elegance or a flower pot polyp. yes/no?
<enjoy the Acroporas and other sps corals and leave out the elegance and flowerpot... they are notoriously difficult (one because of collections, the other hardiness). Please review the Wet Web Media archives for information on these corals...there is A LOT on these species. Best regards, Anthony>
Reef Questions- follow up
Hi Thank you very much for a fast reply Anthony, I do have a Berlin from red sea,
<I like other models for lower nutrient reef systems, indeed>
but not using them anymore since I'm in a favor of, but I'm currently
using EV150 from AquaC, but water level has to be consistent to get a good
skimmate,
<as it is for every skimmer>
I have nothing against it but feel I need an even powerful skimmer
like Euroreef.
<much agreed!>
You mention seagrass and calcareous are more stable and I
agree with Macro, but where can I get seagrass and what do you think about mangrove.
<see if any of you local stores has an independent diver that collects their Atlantic stock (Astraea snails, blue leg hermits, etc)...they can collect it cheaply. If you do decide to try seagrass please write back for an excerpt from my book on the finer points of establishing it in refugia...it is simple but strict. As far as the
mangroves, ditto on the previous and my general opinion is that they are wonderful for aesthetics but grow to slow to be a significant means of nutrient export in aquaria>
Agree with thin layers it gave me lots of headache. thanks I
will get a luxmeter ASAP. I do have a problem with PH I think will decide to connect the end of the Ca reactor to another canister filled with aragonite (med) that way it does not lower ph,
<you won't regret it...wonderful>
and will decide to keep top of the tank open since they may restrict O2 from entering the tank and according to the Ozone controller 280-310 that tells me that 02 saturation is very low.
<possibly low>
I do change the mechanical filter media weekly you suggested
every other day. In terms of MH light I currently use Ushio 10,000 K, and previously from Hamilton brands, but recently bought 65000K 400watt Iwasaki,
<yes...generally quite good>
but according to others you loose wattage with Iwasaki how true is this?
<have heard this but cannot confirm. I have had tremendous success with 400 watt Radiums as well>
Thanks for your advice I don't thaw the frozen food, and I think that might be a root,
<an often overlooked source of nutrients for algae... the passage of thawed pack juice>
which lead to another question why is the rock filled with many
detritus and I do blast them turkey blaster, but is this from excess
nutrient due to not thawing the frozen food.
<nope...just insufficient/misdirected current>
My purpose about DSB is for nitrate control and also hopefully rid of my current problem with BGA as well, but at the same time I also want a
competing for nutrients plants
<sugar fine and deep is your path then>
and I hope mangrove is much easier than macro algae.
<much>
Thank you in advance I appreciate your good advice.
<very welcome, Anthony Calfo>
Re: Filtration
Dear Robert,
Is there such a thing as over-filtering a system?
<Yes... though rare... much more common is "mis-filtering", under filtration>
I use an underground and a conventional air filter that have maximum capabilities that are a bit more than the size of my tank. Will this hurt the fish? Thanx.
<No my friend. Bob Fenner>
-James Kim
Filtration For A Growing System!
Hi WWM,
<Hello there! Scott F. here today>
First may I say your site continues to be a veritable fountain of knowledge.
<We're really happy to bring it to you! And our readers are the best! I learn
as much from their experiences as I do from my own! What a great hobby, huh?>
I am currently running a 700 litre marine tank with 3 fish and some coral rock. I
have been unable to establish the system to the level I initially planned, I
simply cannot maintain calcium levels in such a large environment. I
wish to set up a smaller tank and focus on keeping a low bioload.
<Well, sounds like you're a prime candidate for a calcium reactor. You can
purchase or build one to fit your tank's needs and your budget. Really the most
efficient way to maintain calcium and alkalinity levels in a larger system>
Anyways, do you think it would be sufficient to use a Fluval 304 filter on a
tank which will hold around 200 litres, containing perhaps one clownfish, an
anemone, a shrimp, some mushrooms, polyps etc ?
<Well, the Fluval is a fine mechanical filter system. However, it's tough to
maintain the very high water quality required by some corals with just a filter
of this size. It's important to regularly clean and/or replace the media
contained within the filter, so that they do not become "nutrient
traps", and contribute to declining water quality. Personally, however, I
tend to favor a simple sump system, for its flexibility and efficiency. You can
make your own with little effort>
I have a homemade protein skimmer that is extremely efficient, so this will keep
the organics low.
<Great! A protein skimmer should be considered an absolutely mandatory piece
of equipment for any marine system. It will really help with your system,
particularly if it you are depending on a mechanical filter for the primary
filter system>
I am worried a canister filter will not keep the water quality high enough for a
tank of invertebrates and corals.
<Well, as above- I would employ a sump system for optimal flexibility and
efficiency>
I will use one of my 150w 10k MH lights as well as a small actinic tube to
provide illumination.
<Sounds fine for the creatures that you mentioned that you'd be keeping>
Do you think my proposed method of filtration will yield a healthy tank of
marine creatures ?
<It certainly can work, as long as you pay close attention to husbandry
techniques, particularly nutrient export processes (such as water changes,
skimming, use of chemical filtration media, etc). Stay on top of the basics, and
I have no doubt that you will create a system that your animals will enjoy, and
that you'll be proud to own!>
Thanks a heap Andrew Hough
<My pleasure, Andrew! Best of luck! Regards, Scott F>
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